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AS THE EIGHTH REFERENDUM approaches, questions have been raised about how later term abortions would be handled in this State if the Eighth Amendment is repealed and the Health Minister’s proposed legislation is approved.
New billboards from the Save the 8th campaign show a young baby, with the caption: “I had no idea…They want to legalise abortion up to 6 months”.
The billboards were launched this week, along with a position paper on the provision for terminations after 12 weeks that is included in draft legislation proposed by Health Minister Simon Harris.
The bill proposes to legalise abortion up to 12 weeks in all circumstances.
Yes campaigners, including Minister Harris himself, have said there will be an effective ban on late-term abortions - terminations that take place after the foetus is viable.
Responding to the new billboards yesterday, Professor Louise Kenny said:
“Beyond 12 weeks, termination will only occur in exceptional circumstances – specifically if there is a grave risk to the health or the life of the woman, or if there’s a significant foetal life-limiting abnormality.
“Therefore I don’t know why the Save the 8th side and their protagonists are claiming that we would terminate healthy foetuses on spurious ground up to 24 weeks. The proposed legislation is quite clear.
The worst thing for me is to talk about six months of pregnancy and yet have a six-month-old baby conflated on the poster. I think the Irish people are actually quite intelligent and they’ll see what that is, it’s a manipulative visual ploy. The babies and foetuses that are on the posters are not representative of my reality in the job that I do.
Head of communications for the campaign, John McGuirk, told reporters that the provision allowing terminations up to viability in limited circumstances “has not been discussed” and “all of the media attention so far has been on the 12 weeks provision”.
No one has talked about what happens after that and, by and large, the government has been allowed to get away with saying it will be very restrictive after that…
He said it is important to note that this provision covers a serious risk to the woman’s health, including a serious risk to her mental health, as a reason for a termination after 12 weeks.
There is a similar provision in the UK abortion legislation. It allows for a termination in cases where the pregnancy has not exceeded the 24th week [the six month of pregnancy], but where the continuance of pregnancy would involve greater risk to the woman’s physical or mental health than if it was terminated.
McGuirk pointed out that mental health was the reason for 97% of abortions in the UK in 2016.
However, he later acknowledged that in the majority of these cases in Britain, the termination occurs before 12 weeks. UK figures for 2016 show that 92% of abortions were performed under 13 weeks’ gestation.
McGuirk said the government will try to argue that there is a “substantial difference” between the UK legislation and the proposed legislation for Ireland, as the bill here states there must be a “serious risk” to the woman’s health.
He said the Yes campaign sees this provision as too restrictive and Save the 8th is concerned that access to later-term abortion could increase in the future, if the Eighth Amendment is removed from the constitution.
McGuirk said the public is “angry” about the lack of information being provided about access to terminations after 12 weeks and the point of the new billboards is to start that conversation.
In the proposed legislation, Head 4 deals with these situations.
It states:
It shall be lawful to carry out a termination of pregnancy in accordance with this Head where two medical practitioners certify that, in their reasonable opinion formed in good faith:
Of the two medical practitioners, one would be an obstetrician. The second would be a practitioner appropriate to the situation.
The two doctors would have to agree that all three of the above conditions were being met.
Government ministers, as well as experts in the area of obstetrics, have stressed that terminations after 12 weeks will only occur in small numbers and under strict conditions.
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar last week made reference to the provision for terminations after 12 weeks.
He stressed that late-term abortions will be illegal in Ireland if the Eighth Amendment is repealed, and Minister Simon Harris’ draft legislation is approved:
A spokesperson for the Minister for Health explained how this legislation would work in the small proportion of cases where it would be required:
In cases where there is a risk to the life, or of serious harm to the health, of a woman, termination would not be lawful beyond viability. The viability of the foetus would be assessed and agreed by two doctors, one of whom would be an obstetrician/gynaecologist.
If viability is established and the pregnancy is ended on health grounds, then it will be done through early delivery, with a full medical team on hand.
The spokesperson said Dr Peter Boylan, chair of the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists has said that once viability is reached, the pregnancy would end in a delivery rather than an abortion.
Dr Boylan has spoken in the past about the limited circumstances in which an abortion would be performed after 12 weeks.
“Viability has moved back from 28 weeks when I was training, now to 23 or 24 weeks,” he explained earlier this month.
There is no saying that it won’t go further and if we have legislation, then we can reduce the time limit by which an abortion would be legal. In other words, that foetal viability will be the measure of, beyond which, babies will be delivered and not aborted.
This means that under the legislation, a termination could only be carried out in these limited circumstances between 12 and 24 weeks, if the foetus has not reached viability.
These terminations would be surgical procedures carried out under general anaesthetic and the pregnancy would be removed through the cervix by a special forceps.
If it has reached the stage of viability, there would be an early delivery by Caesarean section and practitioners would provide medical care to the premature baby.
Speaking to TheJournal.ie, Dr Mark Murphy, a GP who is involved in the Together4Yes campaign, pointed out that a termination in cases where the pregnant woman is suicidal is already legal in Ireland under the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act. He said there have been “one or two cases a year” since this legislation was introduced.
“After 12 weeks, for the very few indications for life-threatening illness, often in an emergency obstetrics setting, it will be a surgical delivery as is done at the moment,” he said.
“This is a small country and under this legislation abortion is essentially ruled out after 12 weeks pregnancy except in situations of life-threatening pregnancy. It won’t really be a material issue, [focusing on] six months is an absolute misnomer.”
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Enda has been at it for 40 days, lads. Norris has been at it for 40 years. How’s he been left out?
Missing David Norris, panti bliss/Rory o neill and katherine zappone!!
He is not a leader. A leader doesn’t hide behind his troops!!!
Norris has been at what for 40 yrs? Advocating underage sex?
@ Conor: Agreed. Norris has fought for equality his whole adult life. enda buttered some scones and went to pantibar.
I’m talking about Enda
@fact&ionlydealinfact play the ball, not the man. It’s an article acclaiming those who were influential to the Yes campaign.
My God the media doing it’s job for once, take a look at the story in the Washington Post, it quite rightly says FF and FG only got involved in the campaign actively when they saw it was definitely popular.
Nothing helps a general election campaign like being behind a popular vote
You’d swear by the way fine Gael and labour are celebrating they have won the general election. I didn’t vote yes for Enda or Joan I voted for the gay people of ireland. So Joan and Enda fxxk off this is not a victory for you or your parties,it’s a victory for the ordinary citizens of this country.
Agree Squirrel, no surprise that it was Hugh’s name that popped up at the end of the article.
Enda Kenny was only trying to score political points and has no place amongst the best campaigners for the yes side.
Hugh ‘I love Fine Gael’ O’Connell wrote this. Of course he is going to leave out the people actually responsible for this monumental achievement and substitute Enda Kenny, the man who nearly clatered himself over a flower pot while trying to run away from this question. Also don’t forget back before Rabbitte made his exit Enda said this was not even something he cared at all about! Enda should not even be mentioned in this article, and he would not have been if his own personal cheerleader wasn’t writing this muck!
The 1,201,607 people of Ireland who voted yes
Spot on !
At least 80% of which were heterosexual. Think about that, over a million people coming out to vote for something where they’ve personally nothing at all to gain.
Ryan Anth, I gained by the fact that at 35 years married, my marriage is no longer a discriminatory institution, I can look my gay brothers and sisters in the eye and say you were always equall but at long last we have given legal recognition to equality.
We love in a better Ireland and it is a better Ireland because of the magnificent and invaluable contribution of gay people to Ireland and to Irish society.
Yesterday we United and left the homophobes subdued.
I would put David Norris No. 1.
No question.
He did more than anyone at a time when it wasn’t acceptable to do so.
will david norris now try to get the age of consent reduced
Gerry
He was already associated with a group calling for that:
“…documents in the Irish Queer Archive detail correspondence between the International Gay Association and its support for a controversial paedophile group.
The association was based at the Hirschfeld Centre, Dublin, which was founded, funded and run by Mr Norris, who claimed in the Seanad that he wrote ‘one of three
papers which led… to the foundation of the association’.
It was an umbrella group for organisations around the world, including the National Gay Federation in Ireland, with which Mr Norris was also involved. Documents show that Mr Norris attended its workshops on behalf of the National Gay Front.
A letter to the association showed that, in the early Eighties, it ‘passed two motions. One called for the abolition of the age of consent, whilst the second called for an international solidarity campaign’ on behalf of the Paedophile Information Exchange.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2025339/David-Norris-told-conference-As-child-great-desire-molested.html
@Lasair/Aryan. How is your answer getting on ? How many kids did your lot ‘dispose’ of ???
I still await the answer as to why anyone should take you seriously ????
Ryan
You lie.
“He released the safest letters to be published. The ones that made people angry included stuff that wasn’t appropriate. It was stuff similar to what had been in the Helen Lucy Burke interview – more controversial views on underage sex.”
The Mail on Sunday uncovered the minutes of the first meeting of the Union for Sexual Freedom in the National Library of Ireland on May 10, 1975. The minutes stated “David said as a child it had been his greatest desire to be molested so he, more than most people, knows the rarity of the homosexual child molester.”
The newspaper also mentions Norris’ support for a pro-pedophile organization in the 1980s called the Paedophile Information Exchange. Norris was a founding member of the International Gay Association in the 1980s and passed two motions.
“One called for the abolition of the age of consent, whilst the second called for an international solidarity campaign on behalf of the Paedophile Information Exchange.
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/further-revelations-over-david-norris-views-on-underage-sex-127263293-237404901.html
F**k you Nazi weirdo. We’re all sick to the teeth of your unrelenting hateful nonsense.
Alan
Show where the “hate” is, so far you and the “YES” voters are the only ones to spew hate. You are sick of people showing the truth because it disrupts your cosy vision of life. How tolerant of you.
Says the guy terrified of letting go of *his* comfortable notions of life in the face of the reality which surrounds them.
Waterford Whispers News have been brilliant, bringing much needed levity to a serious issue.
I salute you .. whoever you are ;-)
As has Roddy Doyle
That’s so true :)
How could you omit Panti Bliss/Rory O’Neill?
I can’t remember seeing him during campaign? If he decided to keep a low profile to minimise risk to yes vote, then fair play to him. No offense intended, by the way.
Rory single handedly exposed the Iona Institute for what it is. A massive win.
No O’Brien, Quinn ,Bopp or Waters ?!? Without whose insanity there never would have been such a strong turn out. ;-)
Rory canvassed in Dublin Bay North. Fair play, Rory!
I nominate all the normal Mammies and Daddies of Ireland I met on the campaign who despite being deeply religious were voting Yes because they felt it was the right thing to do. I know for a lot of them it wasn’t easy so I salute them.
Let’s keep in mind that politicians did not bring equality to Ireland. The Irish people brought equality to our island.
True but they enabled it and for that they deserve some credit.
Panty Bliss!
Ailbhe o’ Nolan, deserves to be on that list she put in a relentless super human effort in helping to bring about equality for the LGBT community in ireland.
Serious question: who’s idea was the referendum day one?
David Norris started it all decades ago.
I agree with Martin, Ailbhe deserves to ‘be on this list and so does Helen Ryder and everyone who canvassed for a YES
Totally agree! Ailbhe O’Nolan, what a powerhouse of a canvasser! She is a total icon in my world!
Here here!
Go Ailbhe!
I am also nominating and giving out a HUGE shout out to #TeamAwesome, the canvassing team in Dublin South-West. We were formed by Katherine Zappone and went on our first canvass in a snowstorm in February. Directed by Darragh Gennocky, we knocked on 25,000 doors and had 11,000 conversations. We were still canvassing in Tallaght on Friday from 7am until 9.30pm.
To Sean, Shane, Steph, Jo, Neil, Niall, Caroline, Ruth, Adam, Ann, Martin, Geraldine, Brendan, Phil, Derek, Ailbhe, my lovely wife Philippa, our daughter Jenny and many many more – WE WON!!!!!!!
I had the pleasure of getting to meet Ailbhe this evening, was glad to finally get to give her a hug! I shall take this opportunity to add to this outpouring of appreciation for her – she deserves it!
The women of Ireland were magnificent.
Sadly it was older men in my demographic who were least open to the justice fairness and decency of marriage equality.
Respect to all of you who posted patiently, rationally and persistently in the face of reactionary abuse from the No side.
Eh, what?!?!?!?! Martin look what you started. I won’t be able to fit through doors cos my head has swelled so much.
Thank you all but it is undeserved. I was just stubborn, that’s all.
The person I would add to this list is Max Krzyzanowski for his work with LGBT Noise over the years. His unfailing determination and untold eloquence. What a man.
Lastly, holy $hit, am I equal?!
Yes Ailbhe!! Max Krzyzanowski has been on Vincent Browne, Newstalk 102, BBC Radio 2, and countless out her outlets passionately, informedly and articulately campaigning for the Yes side! For me he should be first on this list!!
I second all the shout-outs for Ailbhe, but would like to add Anthony Lang to that as well. He appeared as a new commenter on the journal and has tirelessly, calmly and reasonably argued the cause for equality. Anthony, I wouldn’t be surprised if you influenced quite a few men in your age-group to see things differently :)
Jane!!!! Hello. Agreed, Anthony was a wonderfully knowledgeable commenter and an asset.
Well said! Ailbhe should definitely be on the list!
David Norris was the trailblazer and today would not have happen without him. No 1 always!
Eamonn Farrell should be on that list. My drama teacher for 10 years and a kinder or friendlier guy you won’t find. Shaped thousands of kids’ positive outlook from their time in NPAS, instilled confidence in the people he taught and was advocating for this long before it become popular to. Delighted for him, his husband, and every other Irish person who were finally placed on an even footing!
Eamon and Steven are fantastic. Beautiful and generous men .
Helen Ryder was a great motivation to me and did magnificent work.
Maynooths Welfare Officer Síona Cahill and the rest of the staff at Maynooth SU. Outstanding work all year getting students registered & more importantly actually getting them to use their vote & Síona was the one who came up with #MakeGraTheLaw which ended up being the USI’s main campaign slogan!!
I was just about to comment about Síona! She did an amazing job in Maynooth! She got over 3,000 students registered to vote and the #MakeGráTheLaw was genius
Getting out the youth vote was critical to this. Nice to see a union engaging in politics that has a real effect on peoples lives instead of farting around banning softdrinks from their newsagents as they used to in years past.
Síona definitely deserved a mention not only was she behind #MakeGraTheLaw and but also #PollingBoothPickUpLines which provided some lighthearted humour on a very stressful day for all involved in the campaign. She was named welfare officer of the year and registered thousands of students in Maynooth to vote and encouraged them to use their votes not only did she do that but she also helped sort out lifts to leixlip for postal voters who couldn’t make it home due to exams. She’s inspired many people in Maynooth university that the student body passed our own referendum about what stance the SU would take on supporting the referendum which passed at 91% . She tirelessly campaigned through out the term putting up posters around Maynooth town and supported a lot of other campaigns in Maynooth doing all this as well as being on hand to students almost 24/7 with any other questions or problems they had. She’s truly inspirational.
Panti Bliss/ Rory O’Neill! :)
Please add Izzy Kamikaze’s name to the list. Decades of outspoken common sense
Veteran (she’ll hate me calling her that) equality campaiger @IzzyKamikaze who campaigned tirelessly and with unending civility in face of adversity. She definitely deserves a spot on ur list.
Seconded!!! Izzy has so so much to be proud of :)
Interesting observations about Fianna Fail and their useless fence sitting. Can we not just consign Fianna Fail to the dust bin of history. Surely the few decent ones would be welcomed by another party of their choice.
And Kilkenny/Carlow voted in another one today. My god
Averil Power went up hugely in my estimation during the SSM Referendum campaign. Have no idea what she is doing in Fianna Fail.
Fianna Fail’s fence sitting is just so typical of them. Opportunistic to the core, they want to be on the SSM Yes bandwagon, but don’t want to piss off their core rural voters, who are more likely to vote No.
I know we have clown running the country but surely that panti fella is an embarrassment to the marriage equality campaign. He lacks credibility.
Credibility? Panti practically won the referendum for us. What did you do?
No, the good people of Ireland won it for you. Such a childish comment! You have a very short memory.
And you’ve clearly no idea what you are talking about. In any case it doesn’t matter a jot now. ‘Yes’ won the day. Sorry a drag queen made you so uncomfortable. Go Panti!
Uncomfortable no. Just think he’s not a great representative to have. Don’t forget who voted yes. And it is a great day for equality and with the world watching.
Name calling reflects on yourself.
Have you all forgotten Simon Coveney. He led from the front with a superb social media campaign and buried Ronan Mullen in a debate.
I wouldn’t call them heroes, if anything their zeroes. Homosexuality is unnatural
You should try it Gary as you are so obsessed about it. You might actually like it.
Gary , you’re just a sh’t stirrer . there’s no need for it at all .
F*ck off Gary.
Gary homosexuality is natural, found all over nature, homophobia is unnatural, found only in humans!
Not as unnatural as your ugly polyester tie
so is rape and incest are they natural to?
Yes Gerry. If it occurs in nature it is natural. Natural doesn’t mean good!
Gary thinks more about gay sex than gay men do
Little article regarding homophobes that might interest you :)
http://m.livescience.com/19563-homophobia-hidden-homosexuals.html
Get s life you fool
Demise
Homosexuality is the rare condition in nature which proves the rule that in fact it is not the norm, meaning therefore it is not the natural condition, furthermore it has been shown that an increase in certain pollutant chemicals in the ecosystem has led to increase in abnormal special sexualities, again unnatural and a result from human detrimental effects on our natural environment.
Lasair, where has this been shown? Cite your sources please, or why should anyone believe your claim?
Annett Temple,
Having trouble finding the published article, can you provide a link? It would be interesting to look at the methodology and control that was used and also peer reviews.
What does indicate some element of prejudgment is Richard Ryan’s liberal use of the term “homophobia.” Scientifically a phobia is a medical condition, homophobia is a political term.
This video does not project confidence that the study Annette alluded to is anything more than vodoo science.
Malachi
Hypocritical how more often than not the “YES” voters don’t have provide citations or sources for their comments but always insist on others doing so, and I will:
two major reviews have revealed that the chemicals are having a much greater impact on animal behaviour than anyone suspected. Low concentrations of these pollutants are changing both the social and mating behaviours of a raft of species. This potentially poses a far greater threat to survival than, for example, falling sperm counts caused by higher chemical concentrations.
Researchers have also shown that increasing numbers of male western gulls hatched from eggs exposed to DDT attempt to mate with each other. In recent years, scientists have also found that lead affects the balance of gulls, while atrazine makes goldfish hyperactive and the chemical TCDD makes the play behaviour in macaques rougher.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6343-pollution-triggers-bizarre-behaviour-in-animals.html#.VWHrZag1jGg
The omnipresence of these chemicals and their engineered potency make them prime suspects in a global epidemic of gender-bending aberrations observed in wildlife as well as people.
In Florida, as many as 40 per cent of “male” cane toads in agricultural counties were found to be hermaphrodites. So, in Canada, were a smaller number of polar bears. … Lyons’s summary, for a British foundation, reported observations of abnormal testes in fish, frogs, turtles, birds, bears, mink, sea lions, whales and panthers; other physical deformities in the genitalia of alligators, otters and polar bears; and precursor proteins to egg-laying in otherwise male fish, amphibians and birds.
http://thetyee.ca/News/2013/06/17/Gender-Bending-Chemicals/
Norris should be No 1
Mrs brown I just don’t get her /his placement on this list.
I think the contributions of the children of same sex parents like Finn Murray in the Irish Times are worthy of mention.
Panti! Supply poll…. Panti has led this referendum.
Thankfully he was low profile during the campaign. I voted yes for equality, not for that clown.
YEARS FROM NOW MANY HERE CELEBRATING WILL DENY THEY EVER VOTED “YES”
A shameful day for all “YES” voters who in years to come will be pleading how they voted “NO” when the scandals of a new humans-to-order industry unfold. A shameful day for Ireland going from one child abuse scandal to investing in a future child abuse scandal which will be far larger. Children bought and sold on the desires of adults, people in foreign countries used as baby factories and their psychological needs trampled on, Ireland has given the green light to the objectification of humanity, a leader it would seem today, in the degeneracy of what is precious and humane, the green light for big business and paedophile rings to serve up their human cargo and lay waste to little children who have nobody to speak for them. Disgusted with the LGBT lobby, their Huxleyite tyranny and the unthinking masses who bought their lies and emotional manipulative “equality” buzzword lie. Extremely sad at the future children who are going to have a world inside their heads of complete darkness and misery leading to abuse or murder of them. Just horrible and all the triumphalist “YES” voters here are responsible, enjoy your false and adult-centric selfish celebration, in years to come these words will haunt those of you who still have an independent brain and conscience. There will be many of the “YES” voters, denying they ever bought the deception of the word “equality” and who voted “YES”.
You need a ride, mate.
Lasair , I think you need to let it go now , the people have voted , all you can do now is accept it . really it doesn’t affect you so don’t worry about it .
Lasair, unlicensed surrogacy has been available in Ireland since the technology to do it existed. Today has not altered that. Sorry to disappoint you
Lol
I just ordered my new baby on Amazon.com/surrogatesales.
Wayne , you’re wasting your time , he knows all this already .
@Lasiar you do know what hate speach is don’t you.
My balls, your chin!
Suzie
I never accept anything that is wrong, whether 1 or 1million vote for it. This is clearly wrong, the battle has only begun and this merely a campaign in a wider war. Anything that affects and enables the exploitation and harm to children concerns all people of conscience. This doesn’t end here.
Thomas
Tell us what your version of hate-speech is?
So very depressing
@ Lasair “Anything that affects and enables the exploitation and harm to children concerns all people of conscience” Says the man who campaigned for a no vote in other to facilitate hateful organisations such as Iona, mothers and fathers matter / the catholic church who have openly admitted that they believe it show be written in to our constitution that a child should be raised by a mother and father. In order so that they can pursue their true agenda and go back to the days where babies were snatched from their single mothers arms and sold of to the highest bider in the name of giving them a mother and father. While completely engorging the notorious track record of abusing and facilitating the abuse of children by the church. The Irish People have seen through your lies and have spoken. You have lost your war against single parents, gay parents and their children. Never again will the catholic church get their hands on the vulnerable children of Ireland. Shame on you sir sham on you.
For me it’s David Norris by a mile. The people of Ireland learned to love him because of his honesty and openness.
How bitter are you hugh not to mention gerry adams who has been calling for the rights of the lgbt commuinity for the last 40 years and the work he has done up north for this cause ,as it stands gerry is pushing for the same rights that lgbt got today for the whole island of ireland ,but dont let your bitterness and twisted fine gael logic get in the way of endas agenda
Labour asses are been wipped in carlow and kilkenny while fine gael have had so far at least 18% of their vote taken back by the people ,
If i could be gay for a day it would be today
Thank god im nursing a hangover and wont be out of the house tonight
but nothing about the rights of abuse victims, or the victims of terror.
Lasair, David,Gary, Fintan should be sent to Roscommon to live , with there like minded folk ,
How many days was Enda out canvassing? Did he canvass across the country? How many debates, televised or not did he take part in? you are taking the piss, journal
Darragh Genockey worked his socks off along side Katherine Zappone, organising the Yes Equality campaign in Dublin South West. You only have to look at the numbers of people who came out to vote in areas such as Jobstown and Killinarden to see the hard work paid off.
Carly, we are now officially #TeamAwesome! Go Darragh, Martin and Ann Gennocky!
Where’s Rory O’Neil aka Panti surely she should get the number 1 mention.
People are celebrating, and for what? Down the line here there will be children that are going suffer as a result of this awful decision. God help this country.
I know, I know… Those homosexuals all have an agenda that involves brainwashing or converting children to their ways! Oh wait….that’s religion I was thinking of. Sorry.
A child needs a mother and a father. If you put a child with two men or two women the child will not have a balanced upbringing. It’s not natural in my opinion.
And same sex parenting had nothing to do with the referendum Rambotious. Nobody was being asked for their opinion on same sex parenting, only on civil marriage equality. A no vote would never have had any impact on same sex parenting, and regardless, the research shows children raised by same sex parents do just as well as kids raised by heterosexual parents… So your opinion is misguided, not based in fact at all. A yes vote was the right vote. It offers more protection for families, and sends a great message to young lgbt people that their love and relationships are just as worthy of protection and recognition as their peers.
Indirectly this referendum had everything to do with same sex parenting and you know it. you can argue all you want but im entitled to my opinion. As mammals we were built a particular way, physically and mentally to look after children. Allowing equal rights to allow children to be placed in imbalanced relationships is wrong
A child needs unconditional love…It doesn’t matter where they are getting it from – a mum and a dad, two mums, two dads, one mum or one dad. Ps… Jesus had two dads. Just saying
Your right Annette they do need love but they also need lots of other things provided by both a male and female influence (ie as nature intended) . Again I must state that this is only my opinion.
“Allowing equal rights to allow children to be placed in imbalanced relationships is wrong”
That is not what this referendum granted. It granted civil marriage rights to same sex couples. Marriage is not a requirement for raising children Rambotious. I know you are entitled to your opinion, however I am entitled to mine also and I believe yours is misguided. The evidence shows children raised by same sex couples are raised just as well as their peers with heterosexual parents.
You have said “the evidence shows” on more than one occasion now. There is no evidence that you could show me nor the many hundreds of thousands of other people that voted no on Friday that gay people could do the same job as straight people in raising children. It’s just not possible. I’m sorry to disappoint but there will be consequences to this mess down the line.
I read your posts on the other thread and you are actually revolting, the stuff you said in reply to that animal. Your equally as bad as him. I’m not interested in continuing our discussion, and for fear of what I might read or see, I won’t be opening your link. Good night.
Good night! I’m equally as bad because I mentioned cunnilingus and blowjobs is it? And the fact that 40% of heterosexual couples engage in anal sex? Do you have a problem with discussing sex or something? We are quite a sexually repressed nation, it causes a lot of damage, people find sexuality a difficult thing to come to terms with and feel it is dirty because of sexual repression. There’s no harm in discussing it as long as it’s in a civil manner. I take offense to being likened to Joey though, he clearly was looking for a reaction, the way he discussed it was revolting. Your refusal to continue the discussion though, your refusal to look at the link I posted, very convenient for you. Very convenient way of holding onto your misguided opinion. They are simply studies done which show that same sex parenting is no worse than heterosexual parenting. In response to your comment that ” There is no evidence that you could show me nor the many hundreds of thousands of other people that voted no on Friday that gay people could do the same job as straight people in raising children. It’s just not possible”
You have no idea what you are talking about. Seriously, our kids are our lives – you don’t get to tell me how to raise my own daughter.
Well 50 years of scientific research on attachment says your opinion is wrong
Demise
You lie.
The “no difference” theory is dead
It will be impossible for critics to ignore it, as it is based on more data than any previous study — 512 children with same-sex parents drawn from the US National Health Interview Survey. The emotional problems included misbehaviour, worrying, depression, poor relationships with peers and inability to concentrate.
After crunching the numbers, Sullins found opposite-sex parents provided a better environment. “Biological parentage uniquely and powerfully distinguishes child outcomes between children with opposite-sex parents and those with same-sex parents,”
http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/the_no_difference_theory_is_dead
Also:
Same-Sex Marriage Is Harmful to Children
Fathers reduce behavioral problems in boys and psychological problems in girls.
According to decades of research, the ideal family structure for children is a two-parent, mother-father family. That research consistently shows that children raised in such families are more likely to thrive—psychologically, mentally, and physically—than children reared in any other kind of family configuration.
Extensive research also reveals that not only mothers, but also fathers, are critical to the healthy development of children. Swedish researchers reviewed the best longitudinal studies from around the world that assessed the effects of fathers on children’s development. Their review spanned 20 years of studies and included over 22,000 children, and found that fathers reduce behavioral problems in boys and psychological problems in girls, enhance cognitive development, and decrease delinquency.
Trayce Hansen is a licensed psychologist
The family law does need sorting. But less face it arguing some thing isn’t natural is longer a good reason to argue against it in a technologically capable society. So now we really do have to think abouts what’s best for the children. Heterosexual men have been far more wronged in the family law act than gays. Children born out of marriage still don’t have the same protections as those that are. Equality for everyone. Marriage is a contract nothing natural about it. Love is.
That sullins guy is a Catholic university proffessor….not biased at all I’m sure!
Anti-gay Conservatives Latching On To Regnerus-esque Flawed Study About Same-Sex Parenting
CHRISTIAN WALTERS 02/12/2015
Because who cares about scientific rigor in the search for facts when you can just mimic a famously flawed study to produce the results you want? Not Donald Paul Sullins, a Catholic priest and sociology professor at Catholic University of America. Sullins is a fellow of the Marriage and Religion Research Institute, a project of the Family Research Council, and a Fourth Degree member of the Knights of Columbus, so objectivity in his research is already on extremely unstable ground.
Sullins pulled data from the National Health Interview Survey from 1997-2013 to determine whether or not gay couples make good parents. Unsurprisingly, Sullins’ results drew him to the conclusion that same-sex parents are unfit, despite the fact that Mark Regnerus – who oversaw Sullins’ study - created a study that was flawed to the point of uselessness and a separate, more reliable study in Australiafound the opposite.
Think Progress dismantles Sullins’ studypiece by piece, pointing out the myriad of flaws present, including the oh-so-small detail that Sullins has no information about whether or not the couples in the data he pulled were actually married, or that somehow according to Sullins’ study gay couples are significantly worse for the upbringing of a child than a single parent.
I think Maire Geoghegan-Quinn should be there too, Ireland was so different 20 years ago and she had the courage to decriminalise homosexual acts. Wonder how things would have panned out if she was FF leader rather than Bertie
Ken Curtin of Yes Equality Cork. Put in a massive campaign.
Ken was magnificent.
@Lasair I don’t get the connection between your concerns and the constitutional wording change.
Thanks to all of them they and others helped change our country for the better.
No mention of Panties. Even the gays don’t like him.
Chuck Feeney.
The man who funded the campaign.
It wasn’t the biggest “yes” the country saw, but the work of Declan Donohoe and Donal MacAodh in YesEquality Longford was astounding, and saw the Longford campaign punch well above its weight. Well done lads!
Young Declan Burke and his team done some great work here in Dublin South West. He also made a great case for the rights of young people to be treated equally within the democratic process
Yes those politicians sure believe in equality, so much so that family legacy is alive and kicking.
Riyadh Khalaf definitely deserves a mention too!
Darren McMahon @darrenmcmahon54 on Twitter. Put his heart and soul into campaigning in Clare & Galway
You left out psi president Dr Paul dalton who dispelled the disgusting misuse of psychological research by some whom had tried to wrongfully argue against same sex parenting . He spoke passionately about the Shame that society made him feel as a young gay man and how regardless of the outcome today that such shame had been lifted and his country supported him #proudtobeirish #proudofpsi #hometovotearmy
I would like to nominate the thousands of #hometovote returning emigrants who went to a lot of trouble to get home to cast their vote. I am sure that their example prompted a lot of younger people living here to actually get out and vote for the first time.
Good point!
Panti?
Brian Sheehan and all others at GLEN?
Who decided this?
The UCD SU had a huge part to play
Ucc Su need to be mentioned here. They alone registered 4000 students to vote for this referendum and canvassed like there was no tomorrow. They deserved a mention. Did the same, if not more than TCD.
Is that a fact? That Ireland is first to have same sex marriage right written into constitution? I know we’re first to hold referendum, but it’s the first time I hear the constitution bit?
What?? No Marian Keyes on the list?? shocked
Fintan Warfield & Chris Curran
When I saw John Lyons top of the list for no reason as he did nothing in the campaign I knew that Hugh had wrote this article and I was correct.
David Norris!!!!
Síona Cahill!! Welfare Officer in Maynooth SU and #Hashtag queen! She came up with #makegrathelaw and even #PollingStationPickUpLines she did unreal work and has done for months!!! Definitely deserves a spot above!!!
I think Declan Flynn deserves a mention. http://politico.ie/archive/night-they-killed-declan-flynn
Add Brian Sheehan, Noeleen Cummins, Grainne Courtney, Orla Howard, Des Crowley & all at Doctors for Equality, Peter Ward and all at Lawyers for Yes
Having just now watched the John Lyons campaign video for the first time, If I’d had a vote, I’d have voted yes based on the simple sentence questioning “why not” said almost at the end the video.
Unfortunately I didn’t follow any of the campaign for Yes or No, as it doesn’t come on my radar therefore doesn’t matter to me and I hadn’t paid any attention. Well done to those that managed to ensure enough people did pay attention and voted for their choice.
Roderic O’Gorman and everyone else in the Green Party who were the first to put Marriage Equality on the political agenda, fought an uphill struggle to bring in Civil Partnerships without which we would have never had such a result, and who have been knocking on doors for months.
Here I am Dave, time to reply here too, I know ya miss me
Enda Kenny? Last time they asked him about gay marriage he almost got taken out by a potted plant while trying to run away from the question! David Norris deserves more credit than the coward Kenny!
Oein De Bhairduin, who leads LGBT Pavee and campaigned in the Traveller community for a Yes vote
Eamon Magee.
An honest look in the mirror is on the cards.
Would you defend those who claimed interracial marriage was “wrong”, “unnatural”, “would harm children”, “would make a mockery of marriage”??
Am …nothing personal – But who the hell is “Buzz O’Neill ” ?
What happened?
Well done Journal ….think Grainne Healy could be added to the list
have your say