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LAST UPDATE | 3 Feb 2022
CHECKS ON CERTAIN goods entering Northern Ireland are continuing to take place, despite an order from the DUP’s Agriculture Minister to stop checks last night.
Minister Edwin Poots, whose officials are responsible for carrying out checks under the Northern Ireland Protocol, ordered his permanent secretary to stop checks on agricultural goods into the North at midnight last night.
The direction itself relates to sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) checks required by the protocol. The customs procedures on Irish Sea trade are unaffected by his instruction.
Both Downing Street and the EU Commission have said that the checks are continuing to take place despite the order from Poots last night.
“As we speak checks are continuing to take place at ports in Northern Ireland, as they have done before,” a spokesperson for UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said.
“We are monitoring the situation closely and keeping the legal position under review.”
Speaking in the Dáil this afternoon, Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney said that the Irish government’s position on the issue is “very clear”.
“The British government has signed an international agreement which includes the Protocol of Northern Ireland as part of the Brexit withdrawal agreement. That is now international law and the British government has an obligation to act in a way that’s consistent with international law,” Coveney said.
He said the government doesn’t regard Poots’ decision as “consistent with the obligations the United Kingdom has under the protocol.
“My understanding is the checks are continuing today whilst while senior officials try to get legal clarity on this issue,” he said.
European Commission spokesman Eric Mamer said the EU’s observers in Northern Ireland were satisfied the required checks were still being carried out.
“We have seen this announcement, obviously we are monitoring the situation on the ground – we have experts who are on the ground in Northern Ireland precisely in relation to the issue of checks,” he said.
The “preliminary information” from those experts “is indeed that those checks are continuing”.
Malmer would not be drawn on whether or not the Brexit trade deal would be suspended if the requirements of the Northern Ireland Protocol were not met.
“I’m not going to get into speculation about what we would undertake in case the checks were to stop … for the moment our indications are that the checks are ongoing.”
Downing Street has said that whether or not the checks take place is a matter for the Northern Ireland Executive and not the UK Government.
Calls for clarity
There have been calls from port workers in Northern Ireland for the local Government to provide clarity on the situation.
Seamus Leheny of Logistics NI said the sector has been plunged into confusion following the order from Poots.
Leheny said businesses received advice to continue to complete paperwork.
“There is a lot of confusion and a lot of anxiety with businesses, they weren’t too sure what they had to do, did they still have to fulfil the administration with regards to moving products of animal origin in here,” he told the PA news agency.
“Generally the advice this morning from government departments is that you must still complete the paperwork to move goods in here. I’m not really too sure what is happening at the border control posts, we’ve not been told what is happening yet… but at the moment we have been told to keep doing the customs and keep doing the phytosanitary paperwork.”
He added: “We just need some stability and clarity, and that’s what is lacking.
For the past year businesses have had obstacle after obstacle… we just need some calm heads in government and, ideally, the EU won’t make any rash decisions based on today and that they continue discussions on the Protocol and come to an agreed negotiation which would ultimately mean we have far fewer checks, if any, required and we reduce the amount of administration required as well.
Leheny said around 85% of movements do not require any checks, 12% need just paperwork checked and 3% require a physical inspection.
He said moving checks to the Irish border would be a “massive problem” with 12,000 goods vehicles crossing the border every day.
‘Extremely unhelpful’
Speaking earlier today, European Commissioner Mairéad McGuinness described the order by Poots to stop checks on certain goods at Northern Ireland’s ports from this morning as “extremely unhelpful”.
Speaking on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland programme, McGuinness criticised the order.
“I think, to put it at its mildest, this is extremely unhelpful to have this news at this time of a new year, when all efforts are being made on our side… to find solutions with the United Kingdom to specific problems,” she said.
“This announcement has created uncertainty and unpredictability and certainly no stability. I’m not sure what the purpose of this movie is.”
McGuinness said checks on goods into Northern Ireland is required to protect the European Single Market and to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland, and that ending checks was not a constructive way of resolving issues with the NI Protocol.
She added that there will be a call between UK Foreign Secretary Liz Truss and European Commission vice president Maros Sefcovic later today.
The comments were echoed by a European Commission spokesman who said “the protocol is the one and only solution we have found with the UK to protect the Good Friday Agreement.”
The spokesperson said Sefcovic will continue discussions with Truss on finding durable solutions for the people of Northern Ireland.
“He will recall that controls on goods arriving in Northern Ireland from Great Britain are a key element of the protocol.
“They are necessary for Northern Irish business and citizens to continue to benefit from access to the single market for goods.
“They are also necessary to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland.
“The European Commission remains steadfast in our efforts to facilitate the implementation of the protocol, while safeguarding the integrity of the EU’s single market,” the European Commission spokesperson said in a statement.
‘Frustrations’
The UK’s Northern Ireland secretary, Brandon Lewis, said last night that his officials will not get involved in the dispute over the implementation of agri-food checks.
Speaking on ITV last night, Lewis said the issue was a matter for officials in the North.
“Obviously this is a matter for the Northern Ireland Executive, it is something that is within their legal remit, obviously we will be looking at the outworkings has taken, exactly what the legal advice is that Edwin has taken, but one of the frustrations is, this I have to say is something we’ve been saying to the European Union for some time, was the kind of thing that we could see happening,” he said.
“It’s exactly the sort of thing that we have been warning about in terms of the stability of the executive and the decisions the Executive ministers will take in order to make sure that products can move from Great Britain to Northern Ireland in a way that they always have done.”
But this morning, Simon Hoare, the Tory chairman of the Northern Ireland Select Committee in the House of Commons, suggested the reputation of the UK was at stake if the protocol was breached.
“In relation to NI Protocol checks: I’m a Conservative. I believe in the rule of law and adhering to obligations we voluntarily entered,” he tweeted.
“There’s no ifs and buts on this. The reputation of the UK on these matters is important. Anyone who cares about the UK should feel the same.”
In relation to NI Protocol checks: I’m a Conservative. I believe in the Rule of Law and adhering to obligations we voluntarily entered. There’s no ifs and buts on this. The reputation of the UK on these matters is important. Anyone who cares about the UK should feel the same
— Simon Hoare MP (@Simon4NDorset) February 3, 2022
Other parties at Stormont insist the civil service has a duty to comply with Stormont’s legal obligations to carry out the checks under the terms of the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement.
But Poots said legal advice he had sought on the issue supported his view that he was entitled to stop the checks.
A spokesman for Poots’ department said: “The minister has received senior counsel advice and has issued an instruction on that basis.”
Asked whether officials would comply with Poots’ direction and whether hauliers should expect checks to be carried out today, the Daera spokesman said: “Nothing further to add.”
Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Coveney has said the decision to halt Northern Ireland Protocol checks would be a “breach of international law”.
“If a political decision is taken by a minister in Northern Ireland to stop all checks in ports on goods coming across the Irish Sea, coming into Northern Ireland, that is effectively a breach of international law.
“And I would remind everybody that the protocol is part of an international agreement.
“It was agreed and ratified by the UK and the EU. And its implementation is not only part of an international treaty, but it is part of international law.
“And so to deliberately frustrate obligations under that treaty I think would be a very serious matter indeed.
“It’s essentially playing politics with legal obligations. And I certainly hope that it doesn’t happen, as has been threatened.”
While he did not name Poots or the DUP, Coveney said he suspected the move was “far more about politics than it is an effort to try and find compromise”.
He told the Seanad: “We should also put on the record that the protocol was designed and conceived and agreed to protect the Good Friday Agreement at the time, in the context of the fallout on this island of Brexit, and all its dimensions fully recognise the constitutional position of Northern Ireland as set out in the Good Friday Agreement.”
With reporting from Niall O’Connor and Stephen McDermott.
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I used really like Ray. He often made me laugh, I liked his compassion.. BUT he’s very ‘shove his opinion down ur throat’ (pardon the pun in relation to sex work). He did not do his research today and she knocked him off his pedestal when he hadn’t read an article she cited.
He went into that interview not to hear her perspective but to belittle her into thinking he was right and she was wrong.
He’s not a disc jockey any more… He’s a knob jockey
Exactly!
It’s not a recent change either. I think his journalistic peak was on the den.
If you don’t like him then don’t listen. He has done wonders for charity over the years. If anyone commenting here has known a person who has suffered from cancer than I’m sure Ray has helped them in some way. It’s so much easier to criticise than compliment. I for one think he does a great job. I always like his shows. They have a bit of everything. Like I said, if you don’t like don’t listen.
I, you and others subsidise Ray’s salary and found him patronising and belligerent in this afternoon’s interview. There was little to no balance and whether I choose to listen or not is certainly not the point. Poor interview, a weak radio show and not impressed with his performance so far. Bring back Derek!
Him doing wonders for charity has NOTHING to do with how he conducts interviews though
People pay this woman willingly for her services if they want them, but you have to pay under threat of imprisonment D’Arcy’s wages even if don’t listen to RTE.
Very well put.
….you don’t HAVE to! ;)
His wife is also on the payroll as his producer.
The guy is a joke, he is the worst presenter I have heard on any radio in any country.
He has no respect for his guests and picks on easy targets to bully.
Yup, maybe too long addressing Dustin the turkey and Socky all those years…
And he’s getting his own chat show on RTE for Christ sake !!!!
What she said sounds perfectly reasonable and the product of experience, whereas D’Arcy”s argument sounds facile and pre-conceived
Much of his arguments are. He doesn’t seem to research anything he talks about despite taking about them extensively as if he has. Take for example his interview with Cathal Pendred. He’s an unprofessional clown.
You mean ‘Conor’ Pendred, as Ray kept calling him!
I’d rather listen to an angle grinder than Ray Darcy!
Ray thinks a woman should be allowed to do what she wants with her body except when he has a difference of opinion. Today FM did well getting rid of him.
I find Ray Darcy very prudish in his dealings with items on his show that are of a sexual nature. He seems very close-minded.
He’s got a mickey like a rolled-up bus ticket.. #repressed
He he he. Good one. LMAO!! :-)
Perhaps he’s under the thumb?
I used to like Ray several years ago when he came across as cheery and up-for-a- laugh. Over the years he has become miserable and sanctimonious (Yes we get that you bike to work and that’s wonderful) What he doesn’t seem to grasp is that the audience doesn’t want to hear his opinion. We want to form our own. His job is to draw out his guest and enable them to tell their story. That is the mark of a really great interviewer.
Ray Darcy makes the same type of comments my dear departed mother would make, she passed away some 40 odd years ago and I am on the wrong side of mid-seventies.
He’s a pompous fool, never listened to him on Today but did start to listen to him when he moved couldn’t believe how bad he actually is complete amateur, very dismissive of guests, his (or his missus’) opinion is the only one that counts
Just popping in to thank you all sincerely for your supportive comments. It wasn’t a very pleasant interview and there’s worse than that to come but nothing will stop me campaigning for our rights. Sex work is the only occupation which compels women to work alone and places us in grave danger. Frances Fitzgerald is about to try and make that ten times worse, but I will fight this law to the death and if it means taking all the way to Europe, then so be it. We want the right to work in safety, end of. To be treated with dignity and respect would also be nice.
Those of you defending Ruhama, here are some links for you –
http://lauraslifeandthoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/how-do-you-solve-problem-like-ruhama.html
https://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2015/04/24/slim-and-nun/
How much for an hour love??
Interview quality aside, it’s good to see that those the legislation will affect the most are finally getting a word in.
with you 100%
As a former listener to this show I was appalled at how you were treated yesterday. We have no say in what this jumped up organisation does with our money .. For this man Mr Darcy to resume his programme today is an utter disgrace I really hope you accept my apology for what happened to you yesterday .. As I said your dignity was astonishing and Mr Darcy ignorance rolls on .. Shame on RTE to allow this !!
Ray better suited to Zig & Zag type of presenting. Fluffy teenage stuff. I was delighted when he left Today FM. If he doesn’t agreed with someone’s views no matter what the subject he talks down to them and patronises them. Anton Savage way ahead of him.
Odd one out quiz
1. Ray D’Arcy 2. Anton Savage 3. Ian Dempsey
Clue….one of them is up his own backside!!
And yes the prize is a Bobble Head Ray
A D’Arcy used to be interesting when he worked for independent radio since he’s gone back to RTE and also got his partner a gig there I have no respect for him any more. Anything for an extra $ or € Ray. Sell out.
It is not up to Ray Darcy or anyone else to criticize or demean others for their life choices
Laura Lee and other sex workers deserve respect for standing up for what they believe in
It is for no one else to judge
Pig ignorant presentation from Darcy. A performance of the ”sure why would I want to learn anything about the subject when I have my own prejudice” variety. Does he actually get paid for this because any clueless grandad from a care home would be better value.
Yes and worst thing about it you are paying him seeing as he works for RTE!
When Ray comes in I turn off .. Misuse of radio
Way to go Raymond. Knobhead
Ray is a toss pot can’t bare him! I switch the tosser off
His response to everything she said was a condescending ‘hhmmm…’
What a rude, close-minded person.
This turn off the red lights campaign is based on the assumption that all prostitutes are victims and their customers are evil.
The vast majority of prostitutes are in it because the money is excellent for otherwise unskilled workers.
Trafficking is a separate issue which the law should be strengthened to deal with.
Two consenting adults should be allowed to enter a contract for whatever services they like with each other provided no one else is hurt.
Further criminalising only serves to drive it underground placing all involved at higher risk of harm.
Prudes like Darcy only demean the girls who work as prostitutes. It’s just sex. There are plenty of careers which involve intimate human contact, just because genitals are involved doesn’t make it bad.
#catholicguilt
Ray has truly had his day
Absolute tripe that he talks is unreal how the hell does he have listeners at all
Totally out of his depth. And I wouldn’t even call it an interview. That would imply an informed exchange of opinion. Cringe inducing.
Where did you get the idea that an interview is “an informed exchange of opinion”? I think you’re confusing “interview” with “debate”.
An interview is actually supposed to be a series of questions that elicit opinions and anecdotes from the interviewee. The interviewer is not generally expected to offer any opinions of his/her own.
Epic fail on all accounts then, how ever you consider it to be.
It sounds like it was an epic fail. But it’s a concern if people think it was an epic fail because D’Arcy’s opinions were ill informed and/or wrong – the implication being that if he’d read up on the issue and expressed opinions similar to Ms Lee’s, then it would have been ok.
Good political interviewers play Devil’s Advocate and challenge the interviewee to defend their stance, regardless of whether they agree with them or not, and without revealing their own position on the matter. In other words, the listener shouldn’t know what the interviewer’s personal opinion is.
Exactly. If Ray D’Arcy did not challenge her he would still be getting slaughtered because that’s the way contributors to the journal contribute .
There in lies the problem – as someone else said Leo V had a fluffy interview with him last week when Darcy refused whatsoever to ask any hard qns considering our HSE situation presumably because he likes Leo.
Todays interviews contained sighs ,exhalations of indifference to her views and most impoprtantly,in the context of the subject matter a position where HE is right because he believes TORL .e.g. referring to Lee’s assertion about TORL as ‘daft’ is something that Sean O Rourke or Pat Kenny would ever utter. Instead , they ‘d diffuse her assertions with a simple ‘ i’m sure those organisations would strongly disgree’ . Darcy just call her assertions ‘daft’ – HIS opinion more important than hers.
I was listening to this interview and was appalled by how badly this lady was treated … It was disgusting .. Mr Darcy sounded like someone from the dark ages .. He really showed himself up for what he is an ignorant ,self righteous ,out of date DJ …. Why our license money is wasted on this man is beyond my imagination … What a disgrace … The least he owes this lady is an apology … What really came across as a listener was the lady was educated , articulate , polite and was very interesting … Mr Darcy on the other hand is none of the above and to compensate for this he is rude uneducated arrogant and a wash out ….
Its easy to belittle people when you get paid a sh#tload of cash for , lets face it, bugger all but talking crap.
I was completely taken aback at how he spoke to his guest today. Completely clueless, an interview worthy only of community radio.
If that’s how he speaks to guests who he disagrees with in principle I shudder to think what his new Saturday offering will be like. Pure amateur!
Say what you like about Brendan O’Connor, but he’s a journalist first and foremost and that’s what puts him miles ahead of pretenders to the throne such as Tubridy and Darcy.
Darcy showed his personal prejudices and ignorance blatantly today.
Last week he almost licked the Arse of Leo V, a soft piece of a fluff interview. No tough questions about state of health service or all Leo’s promises pre election, only about how he’s great and will be the next leader of FG.
Sickening the double standards.
I was even more astounded when John Delaney handed the €5million story into Darcy’s lap and he failed to see the significance of it.
D’Arcy is a dic&. Everyone knows that there will always be prostitution. Far better to legalise and regulate.
Ray D’Arcy was appalling to this woman today – it was clear from the word go that he was totally biased against her. Bad decision by RTE to allow her be interviewed by someone who is not a journalist.
rte must be panicking…..ray is not delivering…..too many articles trying to flog his show….how much did rte pay the journal to push this expensive busted flush
She can say whatever she wants but no girl grows up thinking she wants to sell her body to a strange man for a living. Prostitution is one giant illusion where the women pretend they want the man to be there whilst the man actually thinks she wants him as a sexual partner. I think D’arcy is a bit of a tool regardless but she did not convince me that she was some form of pioneer for women’s rights.
With respect, prostitution is hardly an illusion but is in fact the oldest profession recorded in human history and with good reason. if you’re in any doubt about this fact, read ‘The Oldest Profession’, a History of Prostitution by Lujo Bassermann. Perhaps if Ray Darcy did the same before spouting the crap that sometimes comes is spouted by taxpayer funded ‘charities’ he might come across as more credible.
If your son or daughter chose to do sex work, would you not want them to work in a safe environment?
She is not a pioneer for women’s rights, she is a pioneer for ‘sex workers’ rights and shockingly these are not all just women!
I never grew up wanting to dust shelves in a chemist, or listen to Rudolph the red nose reindeer a million times a day at the local supermarket, but I still got the pleasure when I was a teenager. I don’t feel damaged by the experience, but I do feel confident in saying I’m a lot happier in my present occupation than I was back then.
She also does not sell her body, but sells her time and her skill base. When the time is over, she is at perfect liberty to keep her body and take it shopping if she likes. She might even want to take it down the gym (which I think it a terrible form of abuse) but for some reason rather popular.
There are many jobs where people have to create an illusion, as ‘the customer is always right’. You have your waiter and waitress, Hotel staff etc, etc, all putting on a smile, when in their own lives they may be going through hell. You will never know, because they are professional.
The point that is clear and made very well by Laura, is that in this pursuit to eradicate sex work, they are also eradicating existing sex workers safety, lines of communication with the police and increasing the risk factor on a day to day basis. This will not help the real vulnerable trafficked, but will serve to make those currently working in relative safety vulnerable, but of course you won’t get to hear about it, as they will be too frightened to speak out. It’s just another form of abuse and oppression.
I didn’t like the way Ray persisted in calling his interviewee, Laura Lee, a prostitute after she asked to be called a sex worker.
She is a prostitute and sex worker means prostitute so what’s the problem?
In civil society, it is normal to acquiesce to polite requests. The man needs to apologise. If he doesn’t, he branding himself as ignorant and impolite.
Sorry Paul but sex worker doesn’t mean prostitute. The term sex worker encompasses escorting, street work, lap dancing, cam and phone workers, dominas and strippers, many of whom don’t have actual sex with a client. The ‘problem’ is your deliberate misunderstanding of the term.
All of those fit the definition of prostitute.
Ah, Paul, you poor crater – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debussy_(crater)
Very few would regard someone talking on a phone as being a prostitute. The popular perception of a prostitute is someone offering full sex in exchange for money.
I’m not interested in your idea of the popular perception.
A prostitute is someone who engages in sexual activity for payment therefore all the types you listed including phone workers are prostitutes. You don’t have to like it but that’s the way it is. :)
And very few are interested in your dictionary definition Paul.
I can guarantee that the vast majority when asked if a phone worker is a prostitute, will say no. It’s an argument I haven’t even heard TORL or the DUP use. By all means keep using it yourself though.
It doesn’t matter whether people are interested in the dictionary definition, it is what it is.
I don’t know what TORL is.
Your ignorance really doesn’t surprise me Paul. Given your earlier comment about Laura Lee and another one about ”tapping that ass”, you’re just plain ignorant in every sense of the word.
My comments were fair, honest and accurate.
”I can’t believe people pay good money to bang chicks that look like that.”
If by ‘fair, honest and accurate’, you mean insulting, ignorant and shallow….
Yes, it’s fair, honest and accurate.
If you have a problem with it then feel free to point out any unfairness, dishonesty or inaccuracy in the comment and I will address it for you. :)
Honest – yes, you may quite likely believe what you say (or in the context, not believe)
Accurate – if you are indeed being honest, then OK, it’s accurate.
Fair – only if you’re a complete dickwad with zero regard for others (making it fair for me to call you a dickwad – twice, now)
You can call me whatever you want, buddy. I don’t mind.
I would refer you to the post above by ‘Watcher-on-the-wall.’ Put rather well.
Night Paul. Revel in your ignorance.
Goodnight, David. It’s nice to see you agree with me about my earlier comment ;)
Can I call you ‘Al’?
Sure, as long as I can call you ‘Betty’ ;)
You could say the same about the word ‘nigre’ but we all know that it is now used as a derogatory term and therefore unacceptable to refer to someone in this way.
Like most things the job has evolved and with that it has become a lot more complex and can no longer be explained in one easy word. The prostitutes of Yesteryear are almost as rare as the trafficked, that are meant to be rife amongst us.
I have an image of someone patting you on the head, as you call out dated profanities to passers by, with a shy blush on their face while making excuses for your ignorance due to wilting years and confusion. Do you still drink bear from a glass with a handle by any chance?
*coughs* that should have been drink beer. Damn me getting distracted by the news.
It certainly can be explained in one simple and easy to understand word. That word is ‘prostitute’
If someone engages in sexual activity in return for payment then they are a prostitute. If you’re not happy about that then that’s your problem.
If you wish to attach negative connotations to the word ‘prostitute’ that’s also up to you.
No, I don’t drink beer from a glass with a handle.
The world is grey, Paul. There is no black, there is no white – it’s all % grey. If the world was fair, those women could proudly be our sisters, mothers, daughters. They should be safe. They can be safe – but attitudes like yours just push them deeper into the dark alleys where the predators operate.
Funnily enough, “scandal” after “scandal” says that the politicians who agree with you are the main market for these ‘prostitutes’… lol….
Ok buddy, what’s my attitude?
Thought when the same sex referendum passed ..that ireland had become more open..if i was an outsider listening to him today,the only impression i would get is we are a nation of prudes..have never availed of escorts but will not condemn anyone, male or female who does.
Come off it. Only a complete idiot would conclude *anything* about the entire Irish nation on the basis of an individual radio presenter’s attitude.
Radio 1. Is that still on air?
I don’t think Ray’s the right person to do sex industry interviews. I’m not sure he has the perspective needed, his thinking is very black and white, and dare I say it, a little provincial at times. I like the guy, and think he does very well, often, at taking a reasonable line, but I think this woman’s point is both valid and shared by many (within the industry). She’s right about safety and regulation discouraging trafficking. And I think she has the right to choose to do this as her job, make money from it, and not fear for her life or health or safety at any given point.
I can’t believe people pay good money to bang chicks that look like that.
A holes A hole!
Gobsmacked by your contribution to the very serious issue of sex worker safety.
Actually, they RIGHTLY get paid good money to put up with the likes of you – don’t think you’d be getting much Paul, with that bedside manner….
I don’t use prostitutes, buddy, so she won’t have to worry about putting up with me :)
Anyway, if i ever sank so low as to need a prostitute I would at least be nice to her while I’m tapping that ass.
Just make sure that you pay before you tap her ass, or you’ll be out the door!
Sank so low? Well I’m glad I don’t have a self-esteem issue :)
Well, yeah. I mean, if I was going to do that then I would obviously have to pay the brasser at some point. That’s how it works, right? ;)
Paul I would love to see what you look like. I assume you are a bit of an Adonis making comments like that? I don’t really think comments like yours are necessary in an intelligent debate. Please try not to be childish. :)
Yes, you would love to see what I look like because your assumption is correct.
My comments are perfectly fine. If something I said bothers you then you are free to try to argue against it if you are able to.
I haven’t listened to him since leaving today fm and happened upon that piece today
And without doubt he was a pointless participant total rubbish on he’s account
What do ya expect.. ray D’Arcy proved himself a narrow minded rural simpleton. . He should stick to low brow stuff like socky and bobble head
were a right wing conservative nation and any thing in any way liberal or bohemian is to be stamped on. It’s always been like that here, we’d every opportunity since independence to create a successful place for all of us to live in, but instead we created a church driven third world banana republic.
How about a commenter actual addresses the arguments rather than attacking the person. Laura Lee made some very questionable claims. Suggesting that Ruhama – who get very little state funding – is in it just for the money is one. Also her assertion that rape increased in Sweden after similar legislation was introduced was also a fallacy. Because two occurances coincide does not prove consequence. Like an earlier commenter said there needs to be a debate about this – but one based on fact and conjecture.
You should tell Ruhama that Joe.
Joe you clearly know the figures for Ruhama’s funding. How about you share them with us and tell us what CEO Sarah Benson’s salary is?
You’ll also be aware of the presence of Magdalene Sisters on Ruhama’s board, both current and past. Are these the kind of people who should be ‘rescuing’ vulnerable women do you think?
There is incidentally no convincing evidence that criminalisation has worked in Sweden. The law has been in place since 1999. The govy didn’t know the number of sex workers then and don’t know the numbers now.
Thanks Joe. I was scrolling down the comments section in despair until I read your comment. I heard the interview and I must say I thought Ray controlled himself very well in the face of an extraordinarily provocative and insulting guest. For her to say that the organizations who help women in this work were only doing it for the money really insulted the good hearted people who do their best to help prostitutes. Btw she said also provides a dominatrix service. She didn’t get the better of Ray today though.
Desmodromic — how exactly is campaigning to criminalise the clients of sex workers ”doing their best to help?” An academic study carried out in the North last year found that 98% of sex workers surveyed didn’t want their clients criminalised.
Ruhama are also very fond of telling porkies about local sex work, despite being well aware of the truth. They claim that virtually all sexworkers in Ireland are trafficked, yet fail to add that their definition of trafficking encompasses economic migration and is entirely at odds with the legal definition. They claim that no woman (male sex workers don’t count in their world) could choose sex work, directly contradicting the PSNI who stated that the majority are there by choice.
It seems you heard a different interview to the rest of us today. Darcy was the one being ”provocative and insulting.”
In fairness David “des” doesn’t actually have a clue about what he’s talking about. Sad I know in 2015 but there you go…..
Hi Desmodromic,
could you please read Sweden’s Trafficking Report 2012 and tell why you think its ok for the TORL to cover up the findings of a threefold increase in ‘massage parlours’ in three years , young women and children bought by gangs based in Sweden for between €300 and €1500 and Swedish admissions that they have NO idea how bad the trafficking is in their country as adressing trafficking is dependent on police resources.. you only need to readthe foirst 20/25 pages to get a TRUE reflection on whats happening in Sweden.
And the ‘good people’ you refer to REFUSE to disclose reports like this.
http://feministire.com/2014/01/05/sex-trafficking-in-sweden-according-to-the-swedish-police/
TORL are this generations Catholic Church (and yes Nuns are involved again!) – happy to cover up abuse in order to brainwash the public. Judging by Darcy’s knowledge,it sure is working.
Interesting the TORL tweets refuse to disclose that The Joint Oireachtas Committee refused point blank to examine the NZ model which is advocated worldwide in order to endorse the TORL viewpoint.
I did a little research on this myself last year and I discovered that the vast majority of funding given to Ruhama was taken as ‘administration fees’. That’s some administration. You can find the results on their website, so they don’t try and hide it, which is commendable at least.
I know someone who was asking them for help a few years back and she didn’t have the funds to get to their location in Dublin, although she had managed to travel to Dublin itself, so did her best. They neither offered to meet her near or at her location or offer to get her transport, so she couldn’t make the appointment. She was devastated, as she had been violently abused by a client and lived in fear every time she saw a client after.
If that is the extent of their help, then I have to say, I don’t think I would want to depend on them.
With reference to Sweden and the rape. Yes they do encourage people to report rape over there, but they have also had a huge increase of HIV over there. Of course it is not possible to say that the increase is purely due to the ban (especially when Sweden as more sex workers working over there than here), but it certainly could be contributing and likely is. In which case I would say it is equally wrong for you to suggest criminalization of clients buying sex didn’t have any impact on rape in Sweden.
Kate, can you explain to me how the criminalisation of the clients of prostitutes has lead to an increase in the instance of HIV. That’s a genuine question. Is there a link between the two or is it co incidental?
This is unfortunately a culture and a presenting style that is not only accepted but widely encouraged within RTE. Ryan Tubridy can be astoundingly belligerent, ignorant and inconsiderate to Paul Murphy and his (OK, radical) views, even trying to snare him with one particular amazingly cowardly stunt, all because of his own blatant political perspectives, but then sits gazing into Piers Morgan’s eyes a week or two later, giggling at his jokes and generally offering this man ten hundred million times more respect.
My personal affiliation to either Mr Morgan or Mr Murphy is irrelevant- this is simply not objective interviewing. And not fair on viewers/listeners.
I do have a laugh at Ray he starts of his program with a rant every day and expects everyone to agree with him.
Ireland is still referred to as the ‘land of saints and scholars.’ Ireland sells itself as a base for green enterprise. Tourism is big on the friendly reception. And it glows in the aftermath of marriage equality.
Then there is the dark underbelly: weeping effigies, paedophile priests, Catholic oppression and the mass trafficking of babies and the Tuam graves. And as optimised by Mr D’Arcy a solid inability to research sex work.
Specifically: only ONE survey was conducted into sex work. It was conducted by Queen’s University at the behest of the NI Dept of Justice. The results were largely ignored.
Ireland, south, has puffed and spouted and disseminated. And has to date conducted NO research into sex work within its own boundaries, whilst happily nodding along to the propaganda of the Swedish Model fed to it by an elite few in positions to dictate the narrative.
Word choice is important. Mr D’Arcy by not acquiescing to a polite request has displayed bad manners. In fact, he descended to the level of such homophobes as Jim Wells – a DUP Assembly member in NI – and his bigoted colleague Paul Givan.
The bad manners and blatant disrespect were exacerbated by Mr Darcy hmming and clucking in the background like an old prude with a blue rinse.
“Cheap white trash” is a derogatory expression used in the USA. Those to whom it is directed are generally capable of responding with a “yessir, nosir, yes-mam, no-mam.” Yesterday, RTE allowed politeness to fly out of the window.
Further, RTE, by the choice of questions posed through its mouthpiece, Mr D’Arcy, has ignored the very serious issue of violence towards women – unfortunately, this failure extends to ministerial level: Francis Fitzgerald.
In Ireland, in the year ending September 2014 a total of 450 incidents of crime were perpetrated against sex workers in the ROI. Only 1.5% of these crimes were reported to the Gardai. The Minster for Justice and by association such people as Mr Darcy and the cohort advocating the Swedish Model see crimes against sex workers – women – as a deterrent to entering the business. I am ashamed.
The question of broadcasting standards needs to be raised by RTE before their programmes descend into a slinging match – fair play to Laura Lee by displaying magnificent control in the face of a hostile and pompous attitude. A public apology from Mr D’Arcy is the order of the day.
To think I used to think that Ray Darcy was a nice cheery person. I have a big change of mind after hearing that interview. His attitude and approach was ignorant in the extreme. His right wing catholic bias came through over and over. He needs to be taken off the air.
I just did a quick Wikipedia of that author, it sounds like an interesting read I must give it a go. On that quick summary though the between starving at home or selling sex abroad does not exactly feature in the realms of free choice in my humble opinion. Her positioning these women as making a sound economic choice is a little difficult to stomach but I would need to let her make the case.
I worked in a developing country for a while there was children as young as 6 working in a brick factory because otherwise they would starve……..it did not make it right though.
Emer there’s a big difference between a six year old working in a brick factory and an adult choosing to do sexwork in another country to earn perhaps ten times what they would at home doing the same thing.
Why?? In both instances there is simply no choice. It is coercion by circumstance. Sex work when it is not done by choice is going to damage the fabric of the women involved.
A huge amount of work in the world is ‘coercion by circumstance’ – from the beggars in the street of Bombay ,to working in mines , to working for minimum wage which pretty much guarantees destitution. It comes down to taking the best available option ,which for some people involves selling sex.
Would much rather those people to have available, proper effective exit strategies for those who want/need to leave . For those who believe the financial rewards outweigh any discomfort , then full labour rights should be automatic.
Their rights to safety and respect far outweigh my/your discomfort on the issue.
If we want to reduce prostitution , we must address poverty and immigration – but that requires serious joint up thinking – easier to flash soundbites like ‘end demand’ as if that somehow adreesses the financial woes which pull women into prostitution in the first place.
So the answer to world poverty is that poor women full fill the fantasies of western men until we join up our thinking. Hmmmmm no I just don’t see that.
There are already laws in place to protect those working against there will. How is the introduction of this new law going to help them any better? If anything it takes the focus off the real evil people who should be getting put in prison.
Sorry their. Where is the edit button when you need one?
”In both instances there is simply no choice.”
Read my previous post again. I clearly said ”an adult choosing to do sexwork in another country.” Believe it or not, many people DO choose to do sex work. For those who don’t mind the work, the financial rewards are high and the working times flexible. If an adult (male or female) chooses to do sex work, do you have a problem with that? If so why?
Ah , now I see ,Emer – prostitution is about YOUR views and how the notion of prostitution discomforts you and less about the women who wish to stay in prostitution and their rights of safety.
Glad you clarified that.
No John sex work is about the wants of men. It is that simple really.
Again ,emer you completely ignore the views of women in prostitution who want rights – seemingly,you oppose the rights that they want ,because what they do with their body upsets you .
Any chance that you may adress their concerns (after all,they ARE the people that are actually selling sex) rather than prioritising your views over their safety?
And if your position is determined by focusing on the wants of men , do you also believe that provocative clothing which women wear which appeals to the ‘wants’ of men and also ‘objectifies’ women should also be banned ?
”No John sex work is about the wants of men. It is that simple really.”
And the nailcare and haircare industries are largely about the wants of women. Do you have a problem with these? In all these cases, money is exchanged for services offered. In the case of sex work, it’s generally a much higher sum of money than for say nail technicians or masseuses.
People (male and female) generally go into sex work for the same reasons anyone has a job — to earn money.
Ray Darcy assuming he knows more on a subject after 5 minutes research than an invited expert?? Surely not!
The Dutch Model is the only way forward. Nevada and other states here in America are similar. The oldest trade in the world Will always thrive, regardless if the trade is based in Holland, Ireland, Denmark or Nevada. Make it legal for the buyer and seller. The seller pays taxes on profits made (sole trader), gets hiv tested regularly, has a dedicated police task force to respond to dangerous situations, trafficking etc.. The same principles above can be adopted to weed too. The same goes for making the herbal weed plant accessible to persons 18 and over, as the alcohol drug is..
Please, all sex workers and bodies like UN Aids advocate the New Zealand model.
I think not acknowledging that sex work is carried out in the main by vulnerable and exploited women is being disingenuous. Lots of prostitutes do it because they have been abused themselves growing up and have low self esteem issues which are exacerbated by becoming prostitutes, or they have addictions or a minority have been trafficked. There are a small minority of Laura Lees in the prostitution world and you know what all power to them but I would not even want my daughter to become even the ‘secret diary of a call girl’ version because it gets in the way with normal life and normal relationships. I would feel I had failed her if that was her choice.
When you see any documentary on prostitution it jumps out a mile how sleazy the pimps are, how much too good looking the women are to be with the men they are having sex with and how they don’t really seem to love their job as much as Laura oh yes and how frankly sleazy the ‘clients’ are too.
Prostitution is not and never has been a profession by an credible definition of the word profession. It sounds so utterly misogynistic when that invariably pops up in an argument.
Oh no, not another one full of opinion and lacking facts. Try dumping all that you think you know about sex work and then read Sex at the Margins by Dr Laura Agustin.
Emer Nic
”I would not want my daughter…blah blah” — are you part of some special society where parents decide their children’s work? There are plenty of jobs parents wouldn’t necessarily choose, but ultimately it’s irrelevant. Any decent parent supports their children regardless of career choice and would want them to have as safe working conditions as possible.
”Sleazy pimps” — another top cliche. In the age of this new fangled internet thing, sex workers can set up an online profile in minutes and be earning money the same day without any help from these largely mythical ‘pimps’. Many sex workers are in fact only working part time to augment another income or bring in some extra cash. You do know that the vast majority of sex work in Ireland (88%) is indoors right?
”They don’t really seem to love their job” — hello? How many people in any line of work ‘love’ their job? Sex work IS work — it’s something people do to earn a living.
”How much too good looking the women are to be with the men they are having sex with.” This is a new one — I’ll give you that. Swop ‘sex work’ for ‘one night stands’ and get back to me. Oh and while you’re walking down your local high street, have a look at the couples and marvel how many attractive people have unattractive partners.
The rest is lazy, unsubstantiated cliches about addictions and low self esteem issues, but I’ll give you credit for one statement — ”a minority have been trafficked.” Don’t let Ruhama hear you say that….
You do know that ‘average’ normal people don’t make good telly don’t you? Have you seen how they have mixed up Big Brother, due to the residents being so boringly ‘average’.
Do you really think that you are going to get a true representation on a documentary?
Oh gosh, it’s so frustrating when I read stuff like this and know that there is very little I can say to counter balance it without someone telling me I don’t know what I’m talking about, but all I can say is that I had a wonderful childhood, with my first sexual experience at 18 with a bf I had for 9 Months prior to the intimacy. I was married and raised a family before I decided to change my career and it was the right choice for me at that time. It turned my life around for the better and gave me my independence back. For me it was a far better option than getting a council house and going on the dole (not that I’m knocking anyone who has done that), but it was good to be working and not relying on the state.
For those that think we all left school with nothing, that is not true either. Laura has a degree and I know plenty more that do too. We run a business and we do well, despite everything people say. We are not riddled with STD’s and we are not all drunks and druggies. We even have morals, which I know you will find hard to believe.
Seriously, we just regular people, doing a job that may not be suitable for everyone, but for some of us it’s a job worth doing and we do it well.
@Kate
How can anyone know the difference between you a “sex worker” and some one who is working against their will?
Kate do you this you are representative of the vast majority of sex workers in the country and if you do what makes you draw that conclusion?
There has been much research conducted in this area and yes the chit chat on the journal.ie says it is all bogus, but let us just imagine that it is credible researchers carrying out the work, let us imagine that studies are peer reviewed and spoken about at conferences and for one second let us imagine that it is people who have genuinely come across the other faces of the sex industry on many occasions and they do not share your view or experiences.
I really genuinely don’t have anything negative to say about you or what you are doing at all. I believe in supporting women but I believe the sex industry is all about serving the wants of men and it does not have a decent record in much else.
Gah do you *think…… I am going to bed now.
Yes I do believe that I am representative of the majority in the sense that I am working of my own free will. The vast majority of trafficking is not for prostitution and yet this seems to be the only focus. You can go to the http://www.blueblindfold.gov.ie/website/bbf/bbfweb.nsf/page/index-en to find out more information and it used to have stats on there as well, which show that where there is some activity, it’s nothing like how you would be told.
Also, the word ‘trafficking’ is manipulated. There are some that would say me getting a lift home from the airport after having a holiday, would be classed as ‘trafficking’ or a woman actively seeking to come over to Ireland to work as a sex worker, even of her own free will, if assisted in anyway would be classed as trafficked. No coercion, no pretending that there is another job etc,
If you look at it logically. The vast majority of sex workers work from nice apartments, houses or hotels. They offer showers, drinks and fresh towels. Why on earth would someone choose to pay to see a woman who looks battered and bruised on a stinking mattress with no personal hygiene? Okay, there is always going to be a few low life’s out there that don’t have any respect for their own Mother, let a lone a woman, but those kind of guys would not be our clients. Therefore us working has no impact on the trade that the traffickers and pimps get.
There is information out there, but the stats don’t match the propaganda of Ruhama and TORL, so they don’t use it. It’s as simple as that. They are much happier to shout that 800 women are for sale in Ireland and it’s blatantly not true. For one they take that figure from a site I advertise on and I pay good money to advertise on there and am not for sale and no one is pimping me.
I’ll not get into the nitty gritty of the transaction, but in my experience it is not all one sided. There is always respect on both sides and I am always in control.
Hmmm… You can’t tell when someone is happy or not? If they respond to your touch or not? If they look scared or not? If they have personal hygiene or not?
I would very much hope that there is a world of difference, right from the moment the door is opened and there is a big beaming smile on my face, Do you think it is easy to smile when you fear for your life and expect to be raped?
Hi Kate, I’ve still not made it to bed. We will have to agree to disagree on that.
Darcy is the Kay Burley of Ireland
ray darcy is Irelands greatest feminist. TORL the feminist religious quango are always going on about the findings of the justice committee. just look whats on the justice committee http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/oireachtasbusiness/committees_list/jde-committee/members
D’Arcy thinks he has won the point below. He hasn’t.
Lee: “So, what happens then is that as sex workers we’re left with the dross – the people who really couldn’t care less and have criminal records as long as their arms?”
[Long pause]
D’Arcy: “Is that what you’re saying?”
Lee: “Yep… That’s my experience.”
D’Arcy: “Well they’re there already… So that’s not an argument… They’re there already.”
The bad customers are there already, that is correct. And if better trust and cooperation with the Gardai existed, such as under the New Zealand Model, sex workers would be supported in turning away or reporting the black sheep.
If all sex worker clients are committing a crime by visiting an escort, as is the case with the Swedish Model, then reporting a client is flagging up their activities – an escort is going to think long and hard before doing that. The bad clients will be emboldened knowing that.
The correction to autocorrect: “And as epitomised by Mr D’Arcy a solid inability to research sex work.”
Sex worker such ppl as we are. I have a lot of friends in http://uk.worldescortmap.com/ . They like job and salary (especially salary) . Escorts such a business as coffee shops or some cloth shop. Why everyone so obsessed with this theme?
Why the hell was he talking about trafficking of women?
The vast majority of sex workers are NOT trafficked and make their own choices about the line of work they choose.
As for mentioning Sweden he did damn all investigation about that, if he did he’d know sex workers still work there but it is really dangerous for them now.
They should make sex work legal.
Who the hell has the right to get between 2 consenting adults?….oh I forgot it is feminists and their twisted ideology.
*the choice
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