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ANTI-ABORTION CAMPAIGNERS will today deliver thousands of cards and gifts to the baby delivered after a woman who claimed she was suicidal was denied an abortion.
Ms Y, as the woman has become known, a non national who claimed she had been raped, sought an abortion under Ireland’s relatively new laws but was refused.
It is reported that she appeared before a panel made up of a consultant obstetrician and two psychiatrists. The psychiatrists are believed to have determined that she was a suicide risk, however, the obstetrician said that she was far enough along to deliver the baby and the abortion was refused.
She then gave birth by caesarean section to the baby, who was born at just 25 weeks.
A HSE report found that she was ‘sad and depressed’ but not ‘actively suicidal’.
Today, members of the Life Institute will deliver cards and gifts to the Department of Health for the child.
Maria Mhic Meanmain of the Life Institutesaid the delivery was being made today because “it was the best estimate of the baby’s due date”.
She criticised the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act, saying it had failed the mother and her child.
“In January 2013, at the Government’s own hearings on abortion, every single psychiatrist called to testify stated that abortion is not a treatment for suicidal thoughts in pregnancy. It was acknowledged that the treatment for suicidality is to make sure that women are safe, and that they have appropriate support, medication and psychological treatment.
“Most Irish people see the rank hypocrisy of Fine Gael, who were busy telling us that ‘every child matters’ but have now caused so much potential harm to this child and his mother.”
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I’m all for letting them protest etc but I think doing something like this, singling out a woman who was potentially suicidal is not right, in my opinion. They should keep out of their lives, it’s none of their business.
A really bizarre and sickening gesture. How low can these people stoop?
Sicker than making a pregnant young woman, who claims she was raped, sit in front of three strangers and explain herself to them?
That’s medieval, a throw back to the inquisition, type of torture. I thought the UN had a thing about cruel and unusual treatment of human beings!
Here’s an idea, if the pregnant woman says she’s suicidal why not encase her feet in concrete and throw her in a river. If she survives, then obviously she wasn’t suicidal and should be made an example of, if she dies, then sure isn’t that what God wanted!!
This country can be extraordinarily barbaric towards its citizens at times.
Was this rapist caught does anyone know??
That was my first thought as well Lobbyboy it’s none of their business. They say they care so much about life but then make this woman’s life miserable. As if this isn’t a really tough time for her already.
The rape is reported to have occurred outside of Ireland, during a conflict situation.
Alleged rape
I would burn every card and destroy every gift that crowd sent me. How dare they use this poor woman to further their agenda! Their all off their rockers.
What like the way pro abortionists used Savita’s death?
What like the way pro abortionists used Savita’s death?
…and paid all the legal costs…
That was also wrong I think. Just because the pro choice people used Savita’s death doesn’t mean the pro life criwd use this woman. Two wrongs don’t make a right
Gosh you are so reasonable. The pro-aborts comments here seem unhinged
Nobody used Savita’s death, her husband went to Galway Pro Choice and asked them to contact a newspaper which is why they contacted The Irish Times. Outrage at how a woman going through a miscarriage was allowed to die instead of having the miscarriage expedited is not ‘using’ her death for an agenda.
Beware strangers bearing gifts. Especially when they favour one born child over the rest.
Pro life campaigner = narrow minded fundamentalist.
You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to remove choice and force a decision that is not yours to make.
Pro choice campaigners equals slaughtering in innocent baby’s
Sweeping statements are sweeping.
At least The Journal is finally calling them what they are – Anti Abortion. Pro-Life is a stupid term to use for them considering they actively oppose the protection of women’s lives.
Will they ever stop. It’s a woman’s right to chose, not some stuck up panel.
Who gave you the right to choose who lives and who dies ?
No one Loop.
I would say that the person carrying a foetus who wants to take their own life as a result of that foetus should however, be in a position to decide.
So anyone that wants an abortion just needs to claim they are suicidal.
Actually in this country it is not a woman’s RIGHT to choose but the right of the unborn to life
Loop,
No. Quite simply, no. The same way you can’t get prescription drugs for depression by telling a doctor you feel a bit sad without diagnosis, or you can’t get access to barbiturates by telling a doctor you have a bit of a toothache.
There are (as with every medical diagnosis) checks and balances and second opinions.
AN other, that was the point of the referendum, yes that’s the case currently, the unborn’s “right to life” does not however, supersede that of the mother, not any more and that is also the reason for the campaign to repeal the 8th amendment.
But Seán, there is nothing to gain by claiming to be depressed or have a toothache. There won’t be any ulterior motives. I realise that anyone claiming to be suicidal will be checked out by experts but that is not going to stop anyone trying it on if what the really want is an abortion.
Anti depressants, drug dependency, pain killers…
There are TONNES of reasons people misrepresent to doctors and somehow, someway, we’re still able (as a society) to treat people in hospitals. Yet apparently, we’re incapable of that in this instance.
You’re right, people will try it on the same way a lot of people with addictions do the same with doctors, but this is different it seems.
Can you explain why?
Ah Seán, gimme a break ! One scenario involves a baby’s life the other doesn’t.
I don’t see abortion as a solution to the threat of suicide whether the threat is real or not anyway.
You talked about how it doesn’t happen because there is nothing to gain.
I’m telling you there is. When you don’t like being told that, it’s a case of “gimme a break”. People lie to doctors, we know this, it’s a given. The fact that we know this means that exams and diagnoses are constantly evolving in line with best practice.
You don’t see abortion as an answer? Fair enough, that is your right. But it’s not you that’s concerned. It’s the woman suffering from the depression who is in play and you would seek to limit her options, thereby potentially causing her to end her own life and that of the foetus of course.
I don’t see how one involving a second life and the other not, negates the first life in the equation to begin with.
The options are:
Abort as the patient wishes
Risk it and hope they aren’t bluffing
Try other treatment (against the will of the patient and risk it)
Tie em down until they give birth
I hope the baby is adopted grows up and never knows the circumstances of it’s birth how damaging would it be to know the facts of this case
Nobody called for a baby’s death, Loop De Loop, you absolute pillock. Stop misrepresenting the side you don’t agree with’s argument.
The ideal situation would be if this woman had never been raped. By your logic, Loop, being grateful for the baby being alive is supporting the mother’s rape.
Or perhaps we could stop making hysterical, exaggerated comments?
The mother did Peter. Are you so pro-choice that you even refer to the mother as a “nobody” – a pawn in your agenda game?
Peter
Truth hurts doesn’t it ? Don’t hold back with your petty insults either, say what you really think.
@ Nick
You claim I support rape and call me hysterical !! Bizarre comment.
LoneHurler,
She did this in order to preserve her own life from what she felt (and was confirmed by doctors to be) a life threatening mental illness.
She didn’t “want to kill” anything, but her right to life was very much put in jeopardy by the State.
That is not what I meant the child is alive and well and here now and deserves a happy healthy life hopefully in a loving family . The child’s needs should come first it doesn’t need presents or a trust fund it needs love and care like all humans
For all the haters spewing here – they also wished the best for the mum, just wasn’t reported. http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/news/press-releases/pr-cards-and-gifts-for-baby-hope/
Sailtee pro lifers ain’t haters there just brainwashed and misguided
Loads of revisionism here.
Manginae claiming they didn’t say the baby should have been terminated, while saying there was some failure because the baby wasn’t terminated.
Manginae, is that a word?
:) of course pro-lifers aren’t haters, the pro-aborts are the ones foaming at the mouth, as always
It would be interesting to hear if they’ve done anything for the woman involved in this case. By the way Life Institute is just a ‘grown up’ name for Youth Defence… so people can draw their own conclusions from that.
Surely the obvious is being missed, pro choice are in favour of CHOICE not abortion. It should be an option. It’s not that every woman in Ireland will want one but it should be available.
Don’t point out the obvious to them, it doesn’t suit their argument if you use the truth.
What about gifts or empathy towards the woman who was forced to give birth to a child she didnt want? This sort of media campaign is something that shouldn’t be done. The woman (who was raped and then forced to carry and give birth to a child that she didnt want) will see this, and I can’t imagine that this is going to help her heal in any way. Where is the outreach for her? She was the one that has been let down on all sides. Why not set up a trust fund quietly for the baby, like some people have already remarked? Because I’m sure the child involved would really appreciate that, as opposed to using it as anti choice propaganda to restrict a woman’s right to choose.
Because the anti life side already have massive mumbers. The pro life side are the only ones that even cared whether the baby lived or died
Yeah, mostly from America I hear. I wonder how many of those cards are from Irish folk. Since you bring it up.
Where did you hear that?
http://geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/2012/09/youth-defence-who-follows-followers.html Credit to Geoff’s Shorts.
And also the fact that YD have repeatedly refused to cooperate with the Standards in Public Office Commission in regards to funding. Seems like an admission of guilt to me, in regards to where their funding comes from. Makes you wonder.
I posted a comment here about a year ago after looking at the profiles of commenters on the Youth Defence Facebook page,over 40% were Americans,it hasn’t changed,go over there right now and a big chunk of the comments are still from the U.S. Foreign interference in Irish domestic affairs.
What’s your point though? Regardless of where support comes from, the issue remains the same. Anyways, America is ridiculous. You can abort a baby that has can survive and potentially thrive. That’s far removed from the “It’s only a foetus” argument
Superfriends, is it appropriate for Itish people to interfere in and try alter societal progression in Mongolia through the setting up of ‘Institutes’ that give a biased version of ‘the truth’ to people via infomation outlets?
A baby murdered is the same whether its in the USA or Ireland. US donors are saving babies lives in Ireland and many US citizens come here to donate their time as interns for pro life groups. It is not a big conspiracy so stop acting like a bad Miss Marple.
Well you did ask. The point is that the anti-choice movement whine and moan about interference from abroad when it suits them and then take most of their funding from the U.S.,if it wasn’t for this money (which they won’t disclose despite repeated requests from the SIPO) there wouldn’t be a so-called Pro-Life movement of any note in Ireland. It’s a false representation.
Well maybe the American donors should focus on abortion in America,where it’s actually legal in most places,and the students who work in Merrion Square for the PLC should volunteer at home. It’s none of their business what choices Irish women make for themselves.
“Because the anti life side already have massive mumbers. The pro life side are the only ones that even cared whether the baby lived or died”
Superfriends, no that’s a total mischaracterisation.
Pro-choice people DO care about whether a foetus lives or dies. They just don’t regard it as the only factor, the highest priority factor or a contextless decision maker.
Ailbhe – It may be biased, but no more so than the abortion on demand, anti lifers.
Why Gauis, because you disagree with it? People are free to volunteer with any charity they want. By your logic we should stop all aid abroad and bring back volunteers fighting poverty and disease.
Superfriends, you ignored my question. Again
A bad Miss Marple? You say that as if I actually put some effort it. The facts are there clear as day for anyone to see. It is quite relevant to me, as I really dont appreciate American crazies coming here to proselytise me and other women on what we can and cannot do with our bodies. YD get away with far too much in this country, and need to be looked over with a fine tooth comb in regards to their funding.
Yes. It’s also called common sense @pontius pilatus.
Ye pro aborts do not shy from planned parenthood dollars or marie stopes sterling. Of course ye liberals think its fine untill someone disagrees with you so ye bully them. Hypocrits.
Someone that sides with YD, and then accuses the Pro Choice side of bullying. Laughable.
Praise hope post something on youth defence page they don’t agree with and u will see what bullying is.
A charity?! Don’t make me laugh,pray tell what charitable deeds anti-choice groups carry out in Ireland? All they do is disseminate lies and propaganda,I don’t think they’ve ever helped any person who is alive. Have they ever fed homeless children with their dollars? One issue obsessives driven by their religion a is all they are.
Just what the mother and child need,drawing attention to them when they clearly need privacy. What an ill-thought out attention-seeking stunt by the radical catholics,and I thought the robo-calls were an invasion of people’s private lives.
It wouldn’t be beyond them to be handing out baby presents outside the rape crisis centre – just in case one of the victims has a ‘potential miracle’.
Sick individuals who should let the mother and baby (it would be a baby now, not a foetus) live out their lives in private.
Rotten ‘life institute’ trash don’t care who they hurt to make their point.
“They don’t care who they hurt” ….. from a pro- abortionist !
You Loop, do not care who you hurt. We have already concluded that.
Now be a decent human being and debate the issue instead of playing the person like you have with me at every opportunity.
Stop looking to stir shit and upset people.
Ailbhe,
If someone having a different opinion to yours upsets you unfortunately that is your problem, no one else’s. When you take ownership of the Journal you can tell people how to comment until then I suggest you ignore comments you don’t like.
It’s not the disagreement but the personal and unfounded attacks. Remember the one you in sincerely apologised for? Yeah that one. Play the game, not the player Loops. It’s in the journals comments policy by the way.
I apologised to you yesterday because I thought you were genuinely upset. Today im not so sure about that. You are out with all guns blazing again and it is you that has responded to one of my comments not the other way around. Again I would suggest you ignore my comments if you don’t like them.
If you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen…
So you’re happy to attack people, regardless of the affects. That doesn’t surprise me.
After all, disgussing the topic doesn’t garner the reaction you crave. How sad.
Grow up kid, you’re getting hysterical.
I’m right. But you don’t like that.
Calling women hysterical is a space on “pro life” argument bingo, you know. It’s a bad cliche for a reason.
Ailbhe I don’t care what you think !
I’m not the one embarrassing myself and claiming to be all upset.
Spoken like a cruel troll. Not surprised!
LOL Ailbhe, do you believe yourself, really?
Everybody you cross words with is either a troll or a bully.
Please grow up, your whining is lowering the tone.
Case in point. Thanks Paul!
Consider it both an obligation and a pleasure, Ailbhe.
But of course dear Pauly! You always manage to prove my case and yet remain oblivious. The pleasure is all mine
Spineless animals! That goes for the pro-lifers, medical and legal players in this story. No respect for the mental health or well being of this poor woman OR the child. This is nothing but an attempt to smear and denigrate this woman and destroy any future relationship she has with her child. How do you hide such a campaign from the child when they grow up and what effect could this have on their future mental health. You got what you wanted, leave the child to grow up in peace !
“This is nothing but an attempt to smear and denigrate this woman and destroy any future relationship she has with her child.”
The woman wanted the child dead, remember?
A child is a person who is independent to a degree in many ways,please check your terminology,especially seeing as this girl presented at under 12 weeks. Oh for the day when anti-choicers make an educated point.
Two heartbeats, two different DNA make-ups… pick up a biology book DM.
The pro-life crowd are too thick to understand that a foetus does not equal a living breathing child. They attach human rights and significance to something that is just a collection of cells. I’m.surprised they aren’t out campaigning against masturbation because applying their logic to that act, a man is killing millions of unborn children everytime he shakes one out.
Ironically your comment belittles the struggle that many women face before going ahead with an abortion!
The comparison of masturbation and your viewpoint on human life actually does a disservice to the hugely difficult decision that many women have made!
And that goes for whatever side of the debate you’re on!
Agree with Ryan,
Very much in favour of “choice” but the discussion and the topic are delicate and deserves better than that kinda comparison.
This is blatantly wrong, it’s safe to say they don’t give a damn about the baby or indeed it’s mother! Using this to further their agenda is violating this woman all over again!
A sick stunt shame on em
Im gonna get some popcorn. This is gonna be great
No Pontius they can’t but they will anyway.
Savita would have supported such rallies Ms. Y does not in this case. Pro choice!
Is it appropriate to lavish gifts on a child without the consent of a parent or guardian? Surely it’s the right of the guardian in this given time?
And… you still think it’s appropriate to make assumptions about the future political/moral standpoint of this child based on your own current ones. Also, the fact that the state is the guardian doesn’t give anyone to right circumvent their approval before using this child as a poster.
There is a big difference between an open ended and a closed ended opinion. Unfortunately, the one with the closed ended opinion is usually closed minded and unwavering despite any or all evidence to the contrary.
I wish we would stop calling the anti-abortion crowd pro life. I am pro life but I am not stupid enough to think that every pregnancy must without exception be taken to term. I do think all those who say no to abortion should work on wards keeping alive anencephalic babies and their like.
So you’re pro-choice then??
I am pro life – all life. I also believe that I have no right to impose my personal beliefs on others. I also know that I will never face the choice of continuing a pregnancy that is not wanted for whatever reason and I am not qualified to tell a person who is what she should do.
I’m very much on the pro life side, but this is in extremely bad taste.
All this crowd is doing is saying poor people should not be allowed abortion. For everyone else, having to take the flight, apart from being not very compassionate, is the least of their worries when facing the procedure itself. Last I heard, nobody sets out to get pregnant just so they can have an abortion.
If they think that access to abortion services should only be within the grasp of the middle to well off, then congrats. Goal achieved.
Well done to the pro lifers who actually value the life of a baby. The anti lifers can suck a lemon. Nobody has the right to choose whether a baby lives or dies.
Its a foetus, not a baby
Whatever helps you sleep at night, mate.
Superfriends – minding my own business helps me sleep at night.
1bn people live on less than $1 a day.
3bn people live on less than $3 a day.
If your so pro life righteous why don’t you invest your time helping and loving those 3bn people before you harp on about one individual decision. God knows they could certainly do with your help rather than your useless opinion!
Miketrout – Thanks for the red herring. It’s always a sign of somebody with no argument
Paul – I bet you wouldn’t say that if it was something you disagreed with
Superfriends, what about the mother?
Hey anti choice… Let me spell it out slowly…
- As a society we fail to effectively support 3bn people.
- Therefore despite all your talk you can not deliver, history proves you simply can not support 3bn +1.
- Therefore the +1 decision must only ever be that of the individual woman, the primary carer, the responsibility taker, the sole decision maker
Hey anti life – So what you are saying is that we should destroy our society to support 3bn other people? Do you realise that to bring those 3bn other people to the same standard of living as us, we would have to dramatically lower our standard of living. Let me spell it out for you real slow like. There are not nearly enough resources to support that many people. It is simple maths.
Also, didn’t your mother ever teach you that it is stupid to use a red herring?
Superfriends,
Are you seriously making a “scarcity of resources” argument while categorically denying everyone access to abortion?
“There are not nearly enough resources to support that many people.”
But no abortions and screw the 3bn people affected.
Superfriends,
Second time. What about the mother, why ignore her needs?
What about her needs? She already has an army of ultra liberal extremists that are using her for propaganda. I’m sure they can help her as well. That baby has nobody. Heck, the anti life side dont even consider the baby as having any right to life. That is just monstrously cruel.
He’s a troll. His whole shtick is that he hates ‘liberals’. If liberals say one thing, he automatically says the opposite, without doing any research or making his own mind up. That’s literally all there is to him.
Sure, start with the personal attacks. Ultra liberals can’t argue, so they just insult instead.
Superfriends. Your last post is a pack of lies. You do not care for the mother. I care for both but understand that privacy and anonymity are important.
How am I lying? The anti life side don’t even consider the life of a baby. If you cared about the baby, you would feel terrible about advocating killing it.
I’m not attacking you, Superfriends, I’m stating a fact. I find it incredibly odd that you only ever post the same thing(how much you hate liberals), and then get aggressive when people disagree with you. You never comment anything positive, and you never elaborate on your political views, bar the hating liberals part. I find it odd, and definite troll behaviour. Do you disagree with my assessment?
I never said I hate liberals. I am merely trying to bring some balance to this clearly bias platform.
Obviously I am trolling. I have a picture of religious figures as I avatar, and my name is superfriends.
You constantly say you hate liberals. And I don’t know how your name and profile means you’re a troll. Oh well. Whatevs biatch.
Nice personal insult again. True sign of a lack of intellect.
Like calling someone stupid and shrouding it in the word “intellect”?
Hypocrisy at it’s mist transparent.
Ailbhe – You are one to talk about hypocrisy. You say that you care for the life of baby and mother, yet you would gladly kill the baby before it is born.
You say you’re a troll, I call you a troll and that’s an insult? Am I drunk or does this make no sense? Also, do NOT call me stupid. It’s bad manners, young man.
Biatch is an insult. Are you seriously keeping up this old woman shtick? It’s kind of deranged
I think you ARE drunk but no, it doesn’t make sense.
There are plenty of resources Superfriends despite what the liberal-green agenda says.
Superfriends, how the hell do you know what I would do?!
Have I ever said that? No.
You are a hypocrite and your attempts to turn that on me requires you to assume my opinion. Floats like a lead balloon.
Trolling is a pathetic pastime, maybe get a new hobby.
Super- Biatch is actually a term of endearment, you know like, “Hey, biatch, what’s up?”?
How am I deranged just because I’m both elderly and a female? Bit ageist and sexist of you. Do you always call auld ones deranged? Show some respect.
Sean- If two bottles of vodka is drunk, then yes, I suppose I am slightly drunk.
Haha, you think your online opinion giving is any less pathetic of a pastime? Wow, you are full of yourself.
You owe me an apology, Superfriends.
Mrs – You aren’t an old woman. You are some dude pretending to be an old woman. Of course, if you actually are an old woman, I will snap you a vid of me eating a part of my hat. Naturally, I don’t think I could consume the whole lot of it
Superfriends, you dodge the point.
You make a hypocritical statement.
You then make an assumption about me in order to turn the hypocrisy my way.
It fails.
You then insult me.
Can you back up your assumption or is it wrong?
And your hypocritical comment was about somebody personally insulting you, that you then insulted. All in the one sentence. Then when called out on the hypocracy, you insult me.
You have managed to create a hypocritical loop.
Ailbhe – I don’t care about anything you just said or any assumption that was made. I’m trolling you and every other numpty liberal on this site because you all actually think your opinions are worth something.
I tell you what I really think, not that it matters in the slightest. In this abortion debate, people fall into 1 of 3 categories.
1 – The bible thumping freaks who believe that flying spaghtti monster doesn’t want any abortions ever no matter what.
2 – The weak minded liberal empty heads who want abortion on demand, and want the tax payer to pay for it.
3 – The people who believe that abortion should only be used in cases of emergency like suicide, abnormalities etc. That means no abortion without a good reason. If you want an abortion for no reason, you fit into category 2.
So which category do you fall into?
Yes, Superfriends, I’m a ‘dude’. Because my serious posts on feminism make that very clear, and there’s no girls on the internet.
3. So your assumption is wrong. And you?
I’m pretty much agreeing with superfriends… Wow.
Apart from the empty heads part, think it devalues the opinions of those people, which obviously this person wants to do but other than that, yeah… I reckon for a troll that was pretty constructive.
Does that make it really good trolling or really bad?
3. Yay, we can be friends now.
Mrs. You are a dude because I’ve never met an elderly lady who posts in online forums, or uses your kind of lexicon. Why do you think there is no girls on the internet? There is loads of girls on the internet. Just look at Twitter, or anything to do with cats
Superfriends, if you weren’t actually funny, we wouldn’t be friends. Lets be best mates and watch cat videos!!!
Superdawg- That doesn’t explain why you think I’m a man. I mean, it’d be handy for when I’m in public and I need to wee, but that’s not the point.
Also, just cause you’ve never seen something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I’ve never seen Australia, but presumably it does exist. And excuse me for keeping up with the youth in terms of my lingo.
Best comment on the thread to Pontius
No, this is wrong, leave the baby alone. That child should not be treated as a political point, or something to use in an argument.
Ditto for Savita.
The Savita story was outrage that a woman was left to die.. Can you appreciate why that might generate some interest?
Not even on the same page here – anti abortion got their way, forced birth happened.. What is the purpose of this rather public gesture if not for political point scoring?
It goes without saying that : “Mummy will always remember the kindness of strangers .”
What wonderful people the pro-lifers are …just wonderful .
ABORTIONS FOR ALL!!!
No thanks. Abortions for those who need them only.
very well, NO ABORTIONS FOR ANYONE!
BOOOOO!
No Frank, I think a balance is needed. Abortions for those that need them.
It’s a line Ailbhe ;)
Thanks Sean, wasn’t aware of that.
A huge difference between “need” and “want” Ailbhe.
A woman may “need” an abortion to save her life – the Irish Law agrees and provides an abortion.
A woman may “want” an abortion to climb the career ladder etc… etc… – the Irish Law disagrees and tells the woman its her “choice” to go somewhere else to get the abortion – the Irish taxpayer won’t be paying for it.
I’m aware of the difference between need and want. I personally advocate abortuon in a situation where there is a need.
That ok with you hurler?
Except, LoneHurler in the situation of the woman being mentioned in this article.
Sorry Sean, she did consent to the c-section.
At 8 weeks? 12 weeks? No, after 24 weeks when they had forced her to wait until the point that the foetus would be viable (barely). At this point both could live, but at this point she had been subjected to forced hydration, interrogation, all of this on top of her depression and rape.
Do you think in retrospect anybody would choose what she went through?
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/timeline-of-ms-y-case-1.1951699?page=2
Kitty Holland says that she was not presented to a consultant psychiatrist until almost 23 weeks pregnant. The IFPA messed her case up royally, not the law, not the HSE, the IFPA.
And by the way… alleged rape.
Do not be so shallow as to doubt her when you have no evidence to motivate any doubt.
There is no evidence either to motivate any conclusion Ailbhe, but true to form of the feminist thinking men=bad, woman=good is the default position.
Or that rape is quite common in war..
But hey, it’s not like this hasn’t been pointed out to you before..
There is evidence that a rape occurred. There is a persons testimony and there was a pregnancy that led to depression (both confirmed by medical personnel).
There is no conflicting evidence that could lead you to think she wasn’t raped other than complete hyperbole.
Yet you doubt her because following the evidence doesn’t suit your cause.
The Anti Abortion nazis make me sick
Who are they to say what a woman chooses to do or not do with her body and reproduction? They would be happy in communist Romania with orphanages full to the brim this unwanted children because to would salve their self righteous self importance forcing their beliefs on everyone else. If you want to breed for the sake of breeding even if it was brought about by incest or rape good luck to you or that you got pregnant by accident and can’t afford to bring up a child or you maybe unfit to be a parent that’s fine. That is your belief and you’re also have an imaginary friend you delude yourself is a deity. Your beliefs, your delusions, your problem. How dare you try to force all others to live in your perverse Taliban version of the world.
And the horse you rode in on Jay.
Oh look… another dog, cat, [animal] lover that would go berserk over drowning an unwanted puppy, but abort a human life… pfft – choice.
Oh look – another anti choicer who fails to grasp the concept of being pro choice.
It doesn’t mean they support abortion, it means that they realise that the people best placed to make such life changing decisions be the ones who are directly affected by it (and before you say it – the foetus cannot make a decision owing to not even having a functional brain for the majority of the first trimester when the vast majority of abortions take place). The decision should be made by the sentient parties, especially the one expected to surrender the use of their body to grow another human.
Until you are in a position to offer to carry that pregnancy instead, you should butt out of other people’s bodies.
Unfotunately I think that acts such as this are bad form. It’s politicising the baby right from the get go. Effectively using it as a pawn in their pro-life campaign.
Campaign all you want, but don’t use such amoral means.
Ditto for the prochoicers re: Savita.
Most of this ‘rent-a-crowd mob’ are usually to be found outside the Direct Provision centres ….They are well known for their chants .. “Refugees go back to where you came from and take your ‘new-born’ children with you”..
Pro aborts are likely to murder this baby if they ever found out its location. Murder babies, turn away refugees and allow homosex ‘marriage’, the liberal lefts priorities are ruining this country. They wont be happy untill we are living in a communist police state.
Attention seeking tripe. Do not engage if you have any sense, this poster uses every logical fallacy and the bible to argue invalid points.
Ahhhh,
See I thought you were a zealot last time I saw you post.
I now realise that I was mistaken, you’re unhinged.
1. Murder… Really? Do you have ANY basis for that?
2. Oddly, those on the liberal side of the spectrum are more likely to welcome refugees, it’s the conservative right (typically associated with being anti abortion) who would be more likely to oppose assisting refugees. It’s odd that they stop caring about children when they leave the womb.
3. I don’t see how calling a referendum on an issue like marriage equality, de-prioritises anything. Can you explain that one?
Also, the side looking for legal intervention on the rights of others are the anti-choice side of this discussion, that sounds a lot more like a police state than anyone else’s vision.
Anything to add or are you simply gonna talk crazy?
Change the record Aibhe hun.
Oh, now I get it…you’re a moron
If the record is correct why change it. You’re not all there. And your accusations are unfounded. But you know that.
*do not engage*
She just wants an outlet for her insane accusations. Don’t engage, you’re giving her what she wants.
Ailbhe again you attack the person who has a different opinion to you….. Praise is entitled to her opinion without personal attack
Trolling hard there I see.
Maybe I am ‘not all there’ as you put it, I have suffered depression, was not aware you are a psychiatrist to diagnose me via journal comments. Your agenda wont succeed by being ignorant and attacking people Ailbhe.
Are you a priest, Praise Hope?
Troyman, saying do not engage is not an attack.
He telling me to open my heart to jesus because there is something wrong with me is an attack.
Thanks for your incorrect input.
Your agenda was to attack me ‘Praise’. Your opinion is polarised and ludicrous. Don’t be so arrogant as to tell me what to believe and how to live my life and then accuse me of attacking you. Give over, your arrogance is disgusting.
Ah sorry.
It’s ok for you to attack entire groups of people but you don’t like when it’s directed at you?
What about my “liberal homosex agenda” is obvious? I have a set of views yes, I make no secret of those views.
I have read those stories and the majority of people against refugee relief are social and political conservatives. If you don’t believe this to be the case, you’ve misread or misunderstood the terms.
And as for being a liberal spin anything, I’m not, I’m really just a guy with an opinion. You however are a faceless painting with no name, which one of us is likely to be spinning?
The person who’ll put their name to it, or the anonymous troll using hyperbole?
Oh gosh no I am not a priest. Do not have the required ‘equipment’ lol. Ailbhe get over it. All u do is come on here and attack people or claim they attacked you. Give it a rest.
Sean. I disagree with you on the refugee commenters so we will have to agree to disagree. As for being anonymous, unfortunately the liberals will have me sacked so I do not have a choice.
Oh whatever ‘Ailbhe’, your the only disgusting one here. Stick to your own rules and *do not engage* me. Please, you would be doing me a favour.
You’re doing exactly what you have just accused me of. Maybe you should give that and your unfiunded accusations a rest. Unless of course you can find somebody who is homocidal and intends to kill the baby? No? Thought not. How disgusting of you.
Again,
Incorrect.
Liberals tend to respect that other people have points of view and are entitled to hold those views. Conservatives are however the ones who reckon that everyone needs to have their opinion. Also, you cannot be sacked for holding a view. That smacks of either lack of sincerity or paranoia.
Do you really think social/political conservatives, say David Cameron, are more likely to embrace refugees than a liberal like say, The PM of Iceland?
Troll
I’m beginning to think praise hope is planted by journal to Stoke the conversations in here. The comment about pro aborts murdering the baby if found. Like if she isn’t taking the p*ss. She’s clearly few chapters short of book.
Judging by Praises comments the last week I look forward to the level of bizarreness from them – at least she is consistent and uses liberal homosex agenda in virtually every comment no matter what the topic is.
I think I’ll set up a fake twitter account and call it Praise Jeebus and troll away on here for the laugh to wind up the dogmatic catholics even more than I usually do under my real name.
Sounds hilarious. Sounds like too much work for me though! Have fun
To be honest Praise Hope sounds like the Christians against drugs / Christians against slipknot pages on Facebook, y’know the ones saying ludicrous stuff like: “one hit on a bong turned my son into a liberal atheist suffering from “homosexia”"
The real question is – Is Praise Hope trolling those on the pro choice side or satirising those who are anti abortion?
If it’s the latter, she’s very good at it.
What a nice gesture. Considering the pro-abortion lobby are trying to write this poor child out of the equation altogether, its good to see the baby hasn’t been forgotten by everyone. Well done to those involved. A lot has been said about the mother in the media, but very little said about the other living breathing human person, now in the care of the state, who has been affected by this case. Both failed by the abortion legislation, both failed by the state. Does anyone know how the baby is doing?
Funny Meadhbh,
Seems like the Anti-choice side have completely neglected the mother in all of this.
Funny that. what would you have them write about a newborn infant?
Meadhbh, very little is said about the child to protect it’s anonymity. Would you rather the child’s anonymity is destroyed and their life ruined???
Unwanted child in the care of care of a bankrupt state that can’t even manage water supply. Poor child is focked
Child has a right to remain anonymous. It has not given its consent to have its details plastered all over the media, nor could it. It’s now likely a ward of the state, which to be fair isn’t the best possible place for any child to start out, least of all a preemie. Add to that, as far as I’m aware – there’s no automatic citizenship rights for babies born to asylum seekers in this country, so there’s not even any guarantee that now we forced the child to be born against the wishes of the mother, that we will even care for it.
But hey – here in Ireland we wrote the book on hypocrisy..
have your say