We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
NO DEAL WAS reached last night between activists and Government around the occupation of a Nama-controlled building in Dublin.
Seven members of the Home Sweet Home campaign met with Housing Minister Simon Coveney and officials from the Housing Department yesterday evening to negotiate the terms around the group quitting Apollo House in Dublin.
These included musician Glen Hansard and director Jim Sheridan.
Activists occupied the building in Dublin’s south inner city in December, and it has since been used to house up to 40 homeless people per night.
The occupiers have been given until 12 noon by the High Court this coming Wednesday to leave the building.
The Home Sweet Home campaign – a broad coalition of housing activists, trade union officials, artists and celebrities – has said previously it wants guarantees from Government that other Nama buildings will be brought into use to help address the homelessness situation in Ireland.
The meeting broke up at about 11pm last night after seven hours of talks.
No deal was reached between the both sides, but both seemed optimistic about a compromise.
Speaking to reporters outside the Housing Agency, Minister Simon Coveney said both sides had had a “good and frank discussion” around homelessness.
Sean Defoe / TwitterHere's some of what @simoncoveney had to say after meeting with @HSHIreland reps pic.twitter.com/Z4d6MzU3vg
— Seán Defoe (@SeanDefoe) January 6, 2017
He said his focus was ensuring the homeless people staying at Apollo House would be able to make a smooth transition into other accommodation.
“We’ll continue to talk to and work with those in Apollo House to try and finalise that,” he said.
Trade union official and Home Sweet Home member Brendan Ogle said no agreement had been reached in relation to “how to move the situation on” but that the talks had been positive.
He said areas of agreement had been reached between the two sides and that talks would continue over the coming days.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
This should not be reported as Home Sweet Home running the campaign. The founder of that organisation has been banned from entering Apollo House, and supposed volunteers have decided the seize control and turn this into a political game, using vulnerable people as playing pieces. Shame on them.
Are the government that weak they’re engaging with every Tom dick and Harry now. There should be no negotiations with ogle and his ilk who are only using these poor unfortunates as a pawn in his bigger gripe with government.
@mickmc: It’s more like the government are scared. The HSH movement have the support of the public.
Had the support of the public. In the last week or so that support is starting to wain as the group starts to show it’s true colours.
@mickmc: You hope! If that was the case, there would have been no meeting.
@mickmc: what do you mean by “true colours”?
Well like most good movement ego’s take over and cracks start to appear in the structure. This appears to be happening here too with Mr Sheridan being excluded from the building.
@mickmc: Did you bother reading the article? Mr. Sheridan was at the meeting last night.
Yes I did read it. Was he excluded from Apollo house during the week or not?
@dave doyle it hasn’t even got the support of its founder now .
The same HSH that was founded by Sheridan who demanded housing as a human right but trampled over the human rights of an elderly woman by breaking into her home…38 previous convictions…described as a working class hero on HSH tweet….probably never worked a day in his life…leave the heroics to the real working classes
@mickmc: Thank God for Ogle and his Ilk. He shows people humanity as opposed to disgusting the ideology of money loved by the government and people like you. I’m sure you care about the so called people they are manipulating. HGow sad is your pathetic attempt to divide the issue. A hundred to one you are a fianna Gaeler.
@mickmc: Have the support of the public or do you just see as far as Grafton Street. Some of us supporters and voters do live outside of planet Dublin.
Politicians need to re- establish publicly financed social housing on a greatly expanded scale to restore balance to the market.
Contract employment, minimal guaranteed hours , is the norm for large parts of the private sector which excludes many working people from mortgages & even rental agreements. Only public servants on the higher scales can get approvals under current assessment levels.
The ongoing recruitment effort to get nurses to come back from abroad cannot succeed if they have nowhere to live on reasonable rent. Similarly, the I T & financial enterprises need to import skilled personnel. If they cannot secure accommodation on competitive terms to other locations, then the jobs will go elsewhere.
The state needs to provide a base volume of housing to eliminate scarcity pricing in the private sector, & to give the prospect of secure family formation to lower paid, less securely employed citizens.
@William Kelly: Unfortunately you’ll still get a large swathe of people with mortgages arguing about why should other people get a free house while they have to work for their house, a valid point I guess but people are dying out in the cold, so there’s that.
@Diogenes: some of us work and have access to work and we can afford to repay our Mortage, if it is affordable, and that is fine because we have an asset we own and we can love in rent free when the mortgage is paid off. That does not cause me to begrudge people who have very limited or low income getting the subsidised use of a home. They are not given a “free house” , they are given thevsubsidised use of a home which they don’t own.
@Diogenes: the greedy numpties like Noonan fail to recognise that low rent, sustainable tenancy, as offered by social housing has always provided for a competively priced labour force, which are the back bone of SMEs which intern are the back bone of any thriving economy. Whats happend the greed machine believes all the have to do is get cheap labour from abroad to avoid social responsibility.. Fine Gael have been a complete fek up..
@Gerry O’Rourke: that’s the point. No one gets a free house.
The notion of a “free house” is another one of the fallacies used by those who oppose assistance to prevent the scourge of homelessness.
@Gerry O’Rourke: it suits the manipulative narrative to invent these notions of so called “free houses” because many people are struggling to meet mortgage and rent obligations to keep a roof over their head.
By concocting this notion of give away houses, it is cynically realised that this will press the buttons of the hard pressed.
It is only one of the manipulative tactics used and it is quite effective in getting support against measures to alleviate homelessness.
@Martin Critten: That sums the whole issue up nicely.
Tony Daly,most people on low incomes do not have access to social housing as the thresholds are so low…we need affordable housing for working people and rents linked to inflation…you will not house everybody, there are many people who abuse drugs and alcohol and are violent criminals and have no intention of ever intergrating into society..speaking of violent criminals where is the founder of HSH ?
@Diogenes: In other words you will have people begrudging homeless people a roof over their heads. Yes I agree its in the Irish to be greedy like that.
@Tony Daly: And its a Myth they are glad to propagate not to mention being housed in substandard housing in the worst estates in Ireland crime wise. But hey its a free house no matter whether you lived surrounded by crime or drugs its wonderful. And you get to pay Rent for the privelege of living where nobody else would be go within a mile of.
@Tony Daly: But why don’t the Irish use their brains instead of believing the Bull*sit lies in the media. You are totally correct why you say people are fed propaganda to support the lie of a free house but the middleclass love thse arguments because they can feel justified then in hating these people in need of social support. This is as always a war of ideology of one group (middle and well off people) over the other ( low income poor people). That is where the war is and the powerful like Fianna Gael support the middle and well off view all the time. Take one look at the health service. The basic philosophy is this, They can’t afford private medical care so to hell with them. Money is King to people who idoloise money.
What deal? Why is the Government even negotiating with an organisation that is not a registered charity. They had the public support,but now its turning into a whats in it for me celebrity circle. They also agreed with the court decision to leave on 11th of Jan.
@DMurph:the government should ignore these stunt politics and leave it to the courts.. Simon Coveney has demonstrated poor judgement again.
@DMurph: Why are ye all pretending to care about charity status all of a sudden. Tell the truth its not charity status you are interested in. How pathetic are people like you. All you see is useless rules and regulations not the human amazing work they are doing, Are you forgetting all those wonderful registered charites who squandered millions for their own benefit and corrupt heads of charities stole millions for themselves. What good is your so called register there.
As a member of a registered and fully compliant Charity I take great exception to your “paint all with the same brush” comment. It wasn’t that long ago that there was general criticism of the lack of regulation. But hey when it suits, ignore this to suit your own argument. The simple fact is that they must register and comply!
As they were leaving, a homeless guy was bedding down for the night in a doorway across the road. It’s hard to see the government abandoning it’s lack of any concern for the homeless epidemic it’s policies have caused in society. 7000 registered homeless, but that’s not the real figure. The real figure could be double or treble that figure.
The Apollo Hse organisers wont abandon their efforts to get something more positive than a mat on a communal floor for the homeless. Any resultant fracas will be laid at the government’s door. To many problems are afflicting society. To many problems all of the government’s making.
@Dave Doyle: Hey Dave, anyone “bedding” down for the night has made a choice to bed down on the street as thr are beds available off the street but don’t you worry a free apartment or house is on the way for everybody and don’t forget it’s FREE.
Any resulting fracas? So you see no problem with physical threats then?
@John Burke: Probably their only choice. But dont let that worry you.
@Peter Mc Hugh: No problem with it at all. Let the government do their worst. It won’t end well for them.
Why don’t they go to apollo house?
@Dave Doyle:
“7000 registered homeless, but that’s not the real figure. The real figure could be double or treble that figure.”
Any credible link to this?
Or are we playing pretend again?
@Brinster: Only those with no roof over their heads can register as homeless. Those who are homeless, but live on the charity of family, relatives or friends, have a roof over their heads and cannot register as homeless.
So we don’t have the real figures of the homeless problem.
@Dave Doyle:
So everyone in the country who doesn’t actually own a house is “homeless”?
That is absolutely absurd.
The state should provide for those in the greatest need – the elderly, disabled and vulnerable.
But the idea that everyone is entitled to a free house is ridiculous.
Just because someone lives at home with their parents does NOT mean that they are homeless and does NOT mean that they should get a free house.
Absolutely ridiculous sense of entitlement some have.
@Brinster: Read it, it’s in plain English. Those made homeless who are depending on relatives, family or friends for a roof over their heads CANNOT REGISTER AS HOMELESS.
I can’t make it any plainer for you.
But i suspect your blind begrudgery makes it impossible for the facts to sink in.
@brinster by dave doyle logic someone happily paying rent for accommodation is actually homeless beacuse they dont own the dwelling the guy is a lunatic .
@the truth: Lunatic i might be, but i’m not that idiotic that i can’t read English in front of me. Try taking the blindfold from your eyes.
Jimmy, I think what you really hate is people organising and taking direct action themselves as they’re beginning to understand in large numbers that their government is actively working against them.
In 2017, residential property prices are predicted to increase further putting opened housing out of the reach of more and more young people.
Rents, already unaffordable for many, will continue to escalate.
Housing stock supply will continue as inadequate to keep up with current demand, never mind the cumulative historical demand.
There is no programme of publicly funded social housing of sufficient scale to meet current demand.
On top of this the Banks actions to recover but to let properties where mortgages are in arrears will continue to result in the ejectment of rent paying tenants who are given notices to quit.
Then led by AIB and the vulture funds, the arrears of mortgage repossession cases will move forward in earnest exposing at least 10,000 families to loss of their homes this year as more and more homes will be repossessed.
Look at the documentary on RTE on Monday night on the widescale sale of assets to the vulture funds.
The housing crisis will intensify in its severity and will continue to deteriorate.
@Tony Daly: Redress scheme looming large for a future Government selling homes to vulture funds and LAs without offering them on the same terms to the occupiers or private Irish citizens (taxpayers) ….
The government, NAMA and the Receiver are not going to allow a challenge from well intentioned, idealistic and conscientious activists.
Unless Home SweeybHome can cut a deal, the full might of oppressive and property protective laws will be brought down in top of them. There will be an unlimited budget in legal costs to see off this challenge.
Housing is still not yet a voting issue. Unless or until housing becomes a voting issue, the Givernment’s response will be grossly inadequate.
Speaking to FG TD, he said at he had received no letters or communications from constituents about homelessness. He considers that homelessness is a “dead duck” in a political,sense because the vast majority of voters simply don’t care.
If we read some of the comments on The Journal, those exercised enough to type a comment, it will be seen that many of the comments show not only an indifference to the plight of the homeless/ but even in some cases a remarkable level of resentment over and antagonism towards any measures to alleviate the plight of the homelessness.
The challenge facing campaigners and activists against homelessness is how to encourage a mood a public interest in and public support for effective measures to address homelessness. The true misery and appalling hardship of homelessness is emotionally invisible to most voters. Viters don’t get th3 issue as yet.
Home Sweet Home has raised this issue as a mainstream issue of public debate, getting the issue out into the current affairs media, and had started to initiate some public awareness that homelessness is not limited to rough sleepers with addiction problems. The process is only starting.
I wonder how much tax Apple has evaded over the years?………..Oh no wait it’s € 19 billion with interest. I wonder how many records would need to be sold to generate 19 billion in taxes?
@Brinster: Do you think it’s as much as Dennis has avoided paying? Or the elite who pay one third of the average wealth tax here, compared to the rest of the EU
government negotiations with a group of illegal squatters it’s a kip of a country in fairness.
@the truth: No can you see whats happening. The government are afraid of people power. Thats the issue. People are waking up. Look at the Water protests. We are being screwed by billionaire bankers. The people now realise governments are their enemy. Thats what coveney is afraid of. A domino effect. But guess what. The domino effect started the day billions were thrown onto the back of innocent people for billionaires.
But the solutions are being sought within the framework if profit driven capitalism. Solutions are only possible by overthrowing capitalism
@Tony Daly: listen I actually agree with you Tom I’m just saying What I’ve seen in the comments section.on these sort of articles, a sneering begrudgery towards people who only want a roof over their heads
@Brinster: what is the annual income cap on the artists’ exemption.
I think that you are confusing this issue with large scale tax avoidance schemes such as those used by Bono and his pals.
@Benjy Dempsey: I never said I was a crusader for the homeless . Far from it. The small contribution I make is a drop in the ocean however I bet I have helped the homeless more than you and Brendan Ogle. What have you yourself done in your own community for the homeless ?
Jimmy, ,You’re a perennial mouthpiece here for the interests of the wealthy and powerful and now you want us to believe you’re some kind of crusader for the homeless. Jog on you numpty.
Brinster would have a point if the tax dodger Bono was involved in Apollo house so thankfully he’s not.
As a nation look how far we have advanced since 2011. Before we took the hollow words of politicians as gospel and that everyone else was to blame for the mess our nation found itself in. Bankrupted again by unregulated bankers, these politicians setup NAMA to deal with Huge property portfolio’s. As another super quango it was setup to keep its business secret from the general public. Politician/developers were the first to profit getting there family business back and loans forgiven for a euro. The best property was shared out between Ireland richest and politicial party doners made hundreds of millions reselling businesses While the taxpayer got ripped off again. Next the investment companies fought over the second best loans and simply sat back waiting for noonan to kick start another property bubble. Last were the vulture funds who snapped up unperforming loans using our tax haven status for foregin companies to avoid paying any taxes. Only when the same politicial traitors tried to introduce another super quango did the public start to fight back. no one in this country gets a home for free we all pay again and again for the same under developed services. Things are changing because people have woken up to the criminality, corruption and cronyism that happens daily without anyone held to account. Apollo house as brought people together to help others as well as homeless charities who also opened hostels who must be congratulated. We start 2017 as a stronger nation because we know people won’t sit back as believe the lies Spread by our biased media.
Jimmy, You are a staunch advocate for capitalist system which creates homelessness so you’re part of the problem not the solution. The elite you speak for gorge themselves at the expense of the majority and then throw a few crumbs as charity and expect to be patted on the back? Spare us your bogus piety please. It’s far too sickening at this hour of the morning.
German Constitution distinguishes between family homes and general property rights. Family homes are basic needs in the hierarchy of needs (shelter), are life essentials and are therefore given special legal status. Irish Constitution does not make this distinction. A Referendum to update the Irish Constitution is needed for a permanent solution to the housing crisis in Ireland. https://www.change.org/p/referendum-on-family-home-special-status-in-ireland
Lads Benjy/Wally has never answered a question in comments. He’s a politician, so he’ll reply with an accusation or a pre prepared statement but never an answer so don’t waste your time.
@Anto Curran: You are nearly correct . Benjy is a failed politician.
Great PR scam in fairness, changed nothing at the end of the day. Any legal action going to be taken against the “occupiers” they are trespassing on private property after all……..
There are no artists tax exemptions. There are writers tax exemptions.
@Stephen Kelly:
Revenue seem to 100% disagree with you, Stephen.
It’s even called the Artist’s Exemption. Section 195 Taxes Consolidation Act 1997
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/reliefs/artists-exemption.html
“… profits or gains earned by writers, composers, visual artists and sculptors from the sale of their work is exempt from income tax in Ireland in certain circumstances”.
@Brinster: Seems you forgot that a certain tax exile pays no tax either. Or that the wealthy in the country only pay one third of the tax paid in other EU countries.
Once again you display the bias brought about by blind begrudgery.
@Dave Doyle:
I’ve no respect for that tax exile. Agree 100% with you there.
But your statement “the wealthy in the country only pay one third of the tax paid in other EU countries.” is quite simply false.
100% false.
It just isn’t true.
The reason I disagree with you so often here is not bias or blind begrudgery – it’s because you constantly make utterly false statements.
Can you provide ANY backup to the ridiculous claim that people here only pay 1/3rd the tax paid elsewhere?
@Dave Doyle:
Here you go Dave – Journal article on how much tax we pay in Ireland.
http://www.thejournal.ie/personal-tax-ireland-2988123-Sep2016/
Absolutely ridiculous to claim it is one third the EU average.
We pay more than most.
@brinster and at this point @dave doyle left the conversation.
@the truth: Dave Doyle had to venture out in the snow here.
@dave doyle is it snowing in Ireland this morning?
@Brinster: Brinster, come on … i never said people pay one third of the EU average. I make about as many utterly false statements as yourself, many others but much less than the government.
EuroStat figures tells us on income tax we are at the EU average. On sales and other service tax we are a bit above the EU average. But on wealth tax, the wealthy, the elite, the 1%, call them what you like, those buggers only pay one third of the EU average in tax.
Now i’m sure, such a bloodhound for facts as yourself can ferret out the truth or otherwise of this.
I’ve a totally snowed in car with frozen doors to deal with.
@the truth: I don’t know, i’d be making what might be an utterly false statement on that. But here in Bulgaria we are totally snowed in. A ban on car travel has been imposed in many areas, trucks are banned from the roads for the next few days. Mountain passes are closed. Snow ploughs and snow clearing equipment cannot clear the snow there’s so much of it in some areas. Right now outside here it’s minus 12 and getting colder. People who live in the village where my house is never made it to work today.
@dave doyle is checked the weather here and it has no repert of snowfall across the country I can only presume from your comment that you are not actually living and I presume working in Ireland so you and Denis o brien have one thing in common neither of you pay tax here so enjoy your life in sunny beach and stop talking bollix about how we should spend the tax we pay you f@cked off.
@david doyle it’s all very easy having your house for everyone help everyone people before profit views when it is costing you f@ck all to do it from a nice distance.
@the truth: If that wasn’t so stupid it would be funny. I’ve never made any secret of the fact i live abroad, or that i’m still an Irish citizen, and as such my comments have as much validity as yours do. Doesn’t matter that i “f@cked off” as you so ignorantly put it.
@david doyle your right if it wasn’t so stupid it would be funny you are on here pontificating about a broken society as you see it and how it should be fixed by the public purse while you don’t contribute to that purse and mention a fella constantly about not paying tax here when you are exactly the same pack up your ski’s and your suntan lotion and come home roll your sleeves up pay your share and then waffle all you like it will still be a lot of bollix but at least you will have the right to spout it.
@david doyle it’s an paying my way here to have my opinion you are not so no your opinion do not has as much validity as mine
@gerry o rourke no gerry I don’t think so it’s easy to call for the society you want to see when it comes at no cost or inconvenience to yourself from a distance you call it insular I call it hypocrisy.
@the truth: I’m an Irish citizen, worked most of my life there, paid all my taxes. My opinion is my opinion, i have a free right to express it. I dont have to have, or have to seek your permission to say how i feel about any subject on any forum anywhere.
Keep your small minded censorious comments about me personally to yourself.
I didn’t p*ss in your cornflakes.
@david doyle no David you couldn’t p*ss in my cornflakes as you don’t live and contribute to the same country as I do you claim your have a free right to express your opinion i don’t dispute you have a right to them I object to you expressing them and I also object to wanting me to fund your people before profit utopia while you ski in winter and sup cocktails for a lev in summer.
@the truth: To be honest, i don’t give a flying one what you think or object to. End of.
@david doyle the next time you feel compelled to lecture people on where and how to spend tax payers money in a country you don’t reside in or contribute to, as to create a society that you would like to see don’t bother as you have absolutely no credibility on the subject , pack up head to bourgas airport and put your money where your mouth is end of.
@Dave Doyle:
“But on wealth tax, the wealthy, the elite, the 1%, call them what you like, those buggers only pay one third of the EU average in tax.”
Dave this is just a flat out lie.
It is utterly false.
You’re the one making the statement. You need to back it up.
As I’ve shown, the highest effective rate of income tax in Ireland is nearly 40%. If this was one third of the EU average, it would mean that the EU average was 120%.
Ridiculous.
@Tony Daly:
Artist Exemption cap only came in in recent years. Initially the full earnings could be avoided. So multi millionaires benefitted most.
@Benjy Dempsey: Come on Benjy – you accuse me of being a staunch advocate for capitalist system which creates homelessness and a spokesman for the elite you speak.
I have never been a member of a political party and dont currently support any.
You on the other hand are a failed politician. keep trying !
@Gerry O’Rourke: absolutely true! Vulture funds with charity status!
@Brinster: like Bono?
@Tony Daly:
Nope – he used other means to avoid tax. Namely Dutch registered companies.
Quite the patriot.
Lads can you cop on and get your facts straight.
The majority of Local authority houses are rented by their tenants.
There is no such thing as a free house.
HomeSweetHome’s housing programme cannot solve the housing problem under capitalism. There will always be a housing problem under a system driven by profit. To end the housing problem a social revolution is necessary. HSH don’t accept this.
Anto, You understand that unverifiable personal claims are entirely worthless on a forum like this? Jimmy could be Beverly Cooper Flynn for all I know or care.
have your say