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Atheist Ireland says there is no legal requirement that bibles be there. Shutterstock/welcomia

Atheist Ireland calls for bibles to be removed from referendum polling stations

The group calls the current system “discriminatory”.

THERE HAS BEEN a call for bibles at polling stations to be removed and voting to be held at non-religious venues.

The Citizens’ Assembly is meeting this weekend to discuss the manner in which referenda are held and Atheist Ireland made the call in a submission in advance of the meeting.

The submission cites research from Stanford University which found that the venue where voters cast their ballot can influence how they vote.

Michael Nugent and Jane Donnelly of Atheist Ireland argue that votes should be cast “in a secular environment”.

“Referendums should take place in a secular environment that is neutral between religious and atheistic beliefs. There should be no symbols or practices in polling stations that endorse either religion or atheism, and all voters should be treated equally,” the submission states.

The submission also takes issue with the presence of Christian bibles at polling stations, stating that it could “influence the outcome of a close referendum”.

This issue was raised on the day of the marriage equality referendum in 2015 when people queried the presence of bibles at polling stations.

At the time, the Referendum Commission attempted to explain the reason for the presence of bibles, tweeting:

Re queries on why bibles are at polling stations. In all elections and referendums they are for people to swear confirmation of identity. The Department of the Environment says bibles are there because they are the most commonly used and are not intended to offend anyone.

As Atheist Ireland points out in its submission, however,  while there is an oath for people to swear to affirm their identity, there is no requirement that they swear on a bible.

The law in this area is contained in Section 111 of the Electoral Act 1992 and makes no reference to a bible or any other book.

The oath voters may have to swear is:

I swear by Almighty God (or — do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm — as the case may be) that I am the same person as the person whose name appears as AB on the register of Dáil electors now in force for the constitutency of….

While there is an option for voters to swear the oath without saying “Almighty God”, Atheist Ireland also wants a single standardised oath that does not require voters to reveal their religious or nonreligious beliefs.

The submission calls the labels the currents system “a religiously discriminatory oath process”.

This weekend’s meeting on the Citizens Assembly will discuss various issues surrounding how referendums are held including how campaigns are regulated.

All of the public sessions of the assembly are streamed on citizensassembly.ie.

Read: Disgraced Boston cardinal at the centre of Spotlight case dies >

Read: Government plans to scrap provision allowing church to appoint teachers and principals >

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    Mute Eric Lensherr
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:39 PM

    Killing a city full of civilians. Worst act of terrorism the world has ever seen by a country mile.

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    Mute Reagan Smash
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:40 PM

    What would you have done instead? A ground invasion which would have cost more lives?

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    Mute Mark Collins
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:45 PM

    More combatant lives yes . Civilians are not targets ever it’s a crime .

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    Mute Eric Lensherr
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:45 PM

    The intentional targeting of civilians is terrorism, just stating a point. I’m not a soldier I don’t know what the alternatives were.

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    Mute Killjoy The Second
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:46 PM

    Did you see the devastation left behind by the Russian advance on the Eastern front? More than two cities would have been flattened and well over a million have died had Truman and Eisenhower not made this decision

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    Mute Horgay H
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:53 PM

    Re Reagan Smash

    You don’t know your history.

    The Japanese and the Emperor had already unconditionally surrendered.

    The US only dropped the bombs to test their effects on civilians.

    Only a fool who believes what they were spooned fed from school history books and corporate mainstream media would believe what you just said.

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    Mute Reagan Smash
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:54 PM

    A ground invasion would also mean countless civilian deaths as well as raping, pillaging, slow deaths, fast deaths, mass suicide, watching all that happen to family members . The Bomb ended the war quickly. A ground invasion in Japan could have lasted a couple of years because they were so well dug in. Yes, targeting civilians is terrorism, but when you are fighting in a war as terrible as WW2, morality goes out the window and it becomes a matter of survival

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    Mute Neal Ireland Hello
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:55 PM

    Give that many of the soldiers were pretty much just scared 18 and 20 year old kids, you can’t draw much distinction between attacking civilians and attacking military.

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    Mute Killjoy The Second
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:01 PM

    Horgay H, I can put up with conspiracy theorists making wild assumptions, but rewriting history is a bit much..
    Bomb dropped on Nagasaki – August 9
    Japan announce unconditional surrender – August 15
    Japan sign instrument of surrender – September 2

    Why on earth would it be necessary to see what an atomic bomb would do by empirically researching it? They already knew? Nuclear physicists tend to be rather precise about this kind of thing

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    Mute Mark Collins
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:03 PM

    You can training and weapons

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    Mute Ben Gunn
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:05 PM

    Conscripted soldiers are civilians in uniform.

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    Mute Declan Noonan
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:08 PM

    Horgay, you are rewriting history!
    They had not surrendered!!

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    Mute Declan Noonan
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:17 PM

    And Horgay, I will find it ironic if you defend imperial japan because your always critical of “imperial” America.

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    Mute Jurgen Remak
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:32 PM

    Ben, very goid point that is all too often forgotten. Many of the boys lined up to invade the Japanese home islands were drafted. Better Japanese should suffer than these boys. All history now.

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    Mute Onlyblowingsmoke
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:38 PM

    Any one know why Japan would not surrender or what they were fighting for? Aside from freedom from foreign rule?

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    Mute Michael Mctague
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:14 PM

    Your obviously from some alternative universe

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    Mute Declan Noonan
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:40 PM

    Only blowing, are you not aware that Japan had control of the Pacific Ocean, china, Korea, Singapore and several other Asian countries? They had bombed north Australia. They had India in their sights. And you say that they wanted to be free of foreign rule?! No one had ever invaded japan. They were never under anyone’s rule.
    Do you not know your history???

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    Mute John Flood
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:11 PM

    So wrong!

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    Mute bob 8357
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:11 PM

    Were you there

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    Mute John R
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:46 PM

    Horgay H, you’re an ignorant deluded buffoon and you are wrong.

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    Mute Wayne O'Fathaigh
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:45 PM

    Onlyblowingsmoke, culture is the main answer! Japanese teach dishonour in surrender, Saipan (of Roy Keane saga) is famous for the deaths of 22,000 civilians by suicide as they did not want to surrender to American troops.

    Now apply that in scale to the main Japanese Islands!

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    Mute Liam Dempsey
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    Jul 31st 2014, 1:35 AM

    Was it.

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    Mute James Franco
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:42 PM

    A horrendous deed in a different era that saved millions of lives because Japan would never have surrendered

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:01 PM

    Japan was trying to surrender, actually.

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    Mute Mike O Neill
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:23 PM

    War hero? Lived to 93 while better men die in agony at younger ages.

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    Mute Kugel Berg
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:25 PM

    Do you not think it would’ve frightened them enough into surrendering if had been dropped on an island of Japanese troops or maybe farmland?

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    Mute Ciarán Masterson
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:40 PM

    @Dermot Lane

    Tojo could have avoided the atomic bombings if he had accepted the Allies’ demand for unconditional surrender. He didn’t know that the atomic bombings would take place but he knew that millions of Japanese civilians would die in an Allied invasion of Japan.

    The Japanese generals brought the calamity upon their country by invading China, Malaya, the Dutch East Indies and the Philippines and letting their soldiers rape, murder and pillage.

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    Mute Ciarán Masterson
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:44 PM

    @Kugel Berg

    All the Pacific islands outside Japan that the Japanese had held, plus Okinawa, had been seized by the Allies. Dropping the atomic bomb on an area that had a huge population was the only way of demoralising the Japanese so much that they would surrender unconditionally. Furthermore, the welfare of the Japanese public was the Japanese government’s responsibility, not the Allies’.

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    Mute Ciarán Masterson
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:50 PM

    @Mike O Neill

    The men on Enola Gay did what they had to do.

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    Mute Mike O Neill
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:57 PM

    @CM
    Yes, we are all mindless drones.

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    Mute Kugel Berg
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:18 PM

    I don’t see how anyone could say for certain that if say one bomb was dropped on Hiroshima and the other on open farmland that Japan still wouldn’t have surrendered.

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    Mute Brian Troy
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:59 PM

    The surrender wasn’t unconditional, the Emperor was untouched. It was similar terms the Japanese already offered. The Russians were advancing from the West so they would have surrendered anyway but the Americans saw their chance to display their weapons to Russia. Don’t let reality or facts get in the way of a good story though. Fyi the US didn’t win the war in Europe and Saving Private Ryan wasn’t a documentary.

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    Mute Boganity
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:01 PM

    They kinda did Kugal, at Nagasaki they couldn’t see the target because of low cloud but dropped it anyway. It landed in a semi rural valley on the outskirts of the city, that’s why the death toll was much lower in Nagasaki

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    Mute David Andrews
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    Jul 31st 2014, 12:09 AM

    @Ciaran “The welfare of the Japanese public was the Japanese governments responsibility not the allies”… Wow really? Would you use the same reasoning in Israel bombing civilians in Pakistan? Not their responsibility eh? Disgusting comment.

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    Mute Graham Carrick
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    Jul 31st 2014, 12:56 AM

    I think if Israel starting bombing Pakistan we well and truly would have world war 3!

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    Mute Mark Fields
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    Jul 31st 2014, 3:56 AM

    The last Japanese soldier to surrender did so in 1974.

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    Mute Brian Casey
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    Jul 31st 2014, 5:23 AM

    “Sweet Enola Gay!”

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    Mute fergal ohagan
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:38 PM

    I would say he was some man for a story.

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    Mute Glen
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:40 PM

    Yea I blew up men, woman and children … Bet the kids loved that one from their hero.

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    Mute Liberté et Egalité
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:01 PM

    Hopefully, he had had a painful death!

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    Mute Peter Cahill
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:51 PM

    Why?

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    Mute family guy
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:46 PM

    The man was only following orders. I have no problem with him. America has a lot to answer for though. Including the current Israel and Gaza conflict. Massive money has been provided to Israel by America. When trade and money is involved America is right in there and supports who ever gives them the best deal. Remember they used to provide Sadam Husain with money and weapons years ago until he pissed them off. America relies on people having short memories.

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    Mute Liam Dempsey
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    Jul 31st 2014, 1:20 AM

    The world is full of educated idiots, do you think for one second that if this man refused to fly the plane that it wouldn’t have happened.

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    Mute Liam Dempsey
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    Jul 31st 2014, 1:23 AM

    Why doesn’t my comment appear under the person I am replying to.

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    Mute Stiofán De Priondárgas
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    Jul 31st 2014, 2:21 AM

    It is sad the amount of civilian casualties but it was a last resort. The Japanese would have fought to death, even every civilian was trained to fight to the death is there was a land invasion they didn’t have any choice it was the political mindset back then. After the first bomb japan still continued!

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    Mute Max Maxwell
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:22 PM

    The two nukes done great things for Japan’s image around the world in fairness. Everyone goes on like “poor old innocent backwards Japan, crashing aeroplanes into boats and running at people with bayonettes instead of firing their guns. Sure they couldn’t have harmed a fly, and the hypocrite yanks nuked them!” Even in this thread everyone is saying of America “Act of terrorism! Atrocity! War crime! Where’s the justice for poor old Japan!? Why didn’t the yanks get the same trials the German’s got?!”

    No one ever talks about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731 or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre and I think thats because the Japanese got to look like the victims after the war. Yeah the Americans dropped the bomb but the end of the day, every side in war has to do horrible things, I think the Japanese knew that just as well as anyone. They messed with the bull, and they got the horns.

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    Mute Mark Collins
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:47 PM

    I condemn the America in bombs .I’ll condemn the Japanese for her crimes too . Butchers are still butchers regardless of side to me any way .

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    Mute Glen
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:39 PM

    Nazi concentration camp ex soldiers are hunted down and tried in court for war crimes.
    Dropping these two bombs were war crimes in my book yet the people involved were never hunted down and tried in court.
    I don’t see any difference between the two.

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    Mute Reagan Smash
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:45 PM

    I guess America should have just forgotten about Pearl Harbour?

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    Mute Killjoy The Second
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:47 PM

    Because this was an act of war, the holocaust was not..

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    Mute Eric Lensherr
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:49 PM

    Pearl harbour was a strategic military target, however distasteful the Japanese sneak attack was.

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    Mute Glen Hoddle
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:58 PM

    Glen. Do you actually think anyone is interested in your opinion?

    You have to post on everything….

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    Mute Reagan Smash
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:59 PM

    Yes it was a military target, but it’s not like the Japanese said “let’s just target military targets and not civilian”. They chose Pearl Harbour because it was the best target. If they could have dropped a bomb of their own on Washington, they would have done it in a minute. In fact, the Japanese were much crueler than the Allies. Google “mass vivisections during WW2″, then tell me how moral you think the Japs were

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    Mute Glen
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:03 PM

    Glen
    You seem to of taken an interest in my opinion

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    Mute Glen Hoddle
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:27 PM

    No. Nobody does. But we’ll more tomorrow – from the journal junkie!!!

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    Mute Glen
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:39 PM

    Glen
    You have been trying to bust my chops for over a week now with no luck …. Your jealous your not the only glen on here aren’t you ….. Get over it it’s only a bloody name you big child grow up !

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    Mute Mike McAllen
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:32 PM

    Stop your squabbling lads and stay on topic. No one wants their time wasted by having to read your childish jibes.

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    Mute Glen Hoddle
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:47 PM

    Sadly for us all. You lonely sado will be here again tommorow… (!)

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    Mute Glen
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:55 PM

    Mike
    Your right !

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    Mute Paul Roche
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:28 PM

    Very interesting commentary on this death.
    He played a small but crucial part in the bombing and lived to regret his actions. No doubt if he had refused, another would have taken his place. The war machine is to blame. More victim than hero, I would think.

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    Mute Ibhar Mac Suibhne
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:42 PM

    It’s been well documented at this stage from declassified US war time records that the Japanese were in fact suing for peace and a cease fire before the bombs were dropped but were ignored.

    It has been revealed that the US wanted to make a statement to Russia and China and ignored Japanese requests for peace and dropped the bombs anyway )c:
    Google the documentary called ‘the power principle’

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    Mute Reagan Smash
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:44 PM

    Absolute nonsense. The Japanese were in no way suing for peace. They were the most dedicated fighting force in the world.

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    Mute Mark Collins
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:51 PM

    At the time of the bombing they could not maintain air cover over the home islands the fleet was non existent . Yes many combatant lives would have been lost but civilians children wouldn’t have been turned to shadows on the ground

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    Mute Reagan Smash
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:56 PM

    Are you suggesting that a ground invasion would not have resulted in the death of children?

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    Mute Eric Lensherr
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:59 PM

    A ground invasion would not be necessary to defeat an island nation.

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    Mute Reagan Smash
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:02 PM

    So what would you suggest instead?

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:04 PM

    Japan offered to surrender, with conditions. The Americans wanted unconditional surrender. The Americans also wanted to test and demonstrate their new weapons of mass destruction, that’s why they dropped two different types as atomic bombs. It was an experiment and also a demonstration to the Russians.

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:05 PM

    #Types of atomic bombs

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    Mute Reagan Smash
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:07 PM

    All true, Dermot. Conditional surrender is never a plausible option though. History has proven that multiple times. It only leads to a Cold War esque standoff

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    Mute Eric Lensherr
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:09 PM

    Destroy the Japanese fleet, they are no longer a threat. America weren’t an invading enemy, they would only need a ground invasion if they intended to occupy Japan.

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    Mute Mark Collins
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:09 PM

    Not the wiping out of two civilian cities no . And if you take your head out of the us write history book and look at evidence Japan was done .

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    Mute Ciarán Masterson
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:49 PM

    @Dermot Lane

    The Americans were right to demand unconditional surrender so that the perpetrators of the rampage of rape and murder that took place in the Pacific and South-East Asia would be punished, e.g. the Princess Alexandra Hospital massacre in Singapore, the Bataan Death March, the Burma Railway.

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    Mute Ibhar Mac Suibhne
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    Jul 31st 2014, 9:25 AM

    To anyone who red thumbed my comment above – the revised histroy of the era proves there was no need to drop the bombs, Japan had been neutralised! – I’m not going to bother posting links to the declassified US department of defense files…go ahead and try to disprove what I’m saying!.

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    Mute John Flood
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:21 PM

    Selective righteousness at work again! Amazingly warped knowledge of history on display here today.

    May the man rest in peace!

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    Mute John R
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:57 PM

    Well said John!

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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:47 PM

    What makes it worse is when Truman announced it he said ”the world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base”
    The argument that it helped end the war and save the 1m or so US soldiers is not convincing to me.
    Those were soldiers, it was their job to fight, so you killed civilians to save soldiers lives? What kind of solider with any sense of honor would be ok with that?

    One was bad enough, two was over the top. The second one was clearly meant for Uncle Joe, and with that is the only argument I would ALMOST buy for dropping it. The argument goes that they knew the USSR was gonna have nukes sooner or later. Back then the big fear was a Soviet Invasion of Western Europe, the argument goes that by showing that they were willing to use nukes, the deterrent was maintained, the Soviets never moved for fear of those nukes, and ergo one Japanese city saved the world from a major nuclear exchange down the road.
    It’s a good argument but leaves too much to Harry Trumans ability of prophecy.

    Everyone today thinks the nazis were hung for the concentration camps, but the main focus of the trial was ”the crime of aggression” and ”crimes in the conduct of warfare”, genocide was not a properly defined crime at the time anyway. The allies hung them for murdering civilians on purpose, and that hypocrisy has endured to this very day with Blair and Bush walking free while the Milosoviches and Karadic’s faced life in prison.

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    Mute Killjoy The Second
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:48 PM

    Truman was president of the USA, of course an American soldier’s life was worth more than a Japanese citizens, that’s how it works

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    Mute luke daly
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:53 PM

    It was most definitely a war crime but the victors write the history books and less people died in wars in the second half of the century than did in the first.

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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:04 PM

    @Killjoy that’s not how an honorable military works

    Why do you think Operation Neptunes Spear was a special forces raid instead of a bombing mission?
    Besides not having direct DNA evidence, they were worried even the smaller missile like a Hellfire would kill the children living at the compound and a bigger one from a B2 would crush nearby houses in the suburb.
    So they decided to put 25 SEALS and 8 air crew in harms way to avoid killing civilians.

    When the SEALS got there they were careful precisely because even though they are not Americans they did not want to kill civilians. They were very worried about hitting one of the kids to the point where at the end of the raid they gathered them up and tucked them into the guesthouse when they were about to blow their downed helicopter, just on the off chance shrapnel would go flying and hit one of them.
    When one of the wives came towards them rushing them exasperated did they gun her down? No, one of them charged her shoving her into the corner so she’d be out of the way of the bullets, they could have assumed she was wearing a suicide vest and just put 2 shots in her head, but they took the risk.

    No honorable solider kills a civilian and doing it with a bomb is no diff to doing it with a gun if it’s intentional.

    The idea of saving more lives long term because conventional war MIGHT have killed more …is

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    Mute Qwerty
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:09 PM

    Fair enough, but Japan’s civilian population would have been annihilated. They would have replaced their soldiers until nearly every last man and women was dead. Dropping the bomb was the lesser of two evils. More people both military and civilians would have died if conventional warfare had continued.

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    Mute Killjoy The Second
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:09 PM

    I’m not saying that armies should kill civilians, just that when it’s 300000 – 1000000 dead american soldiers on one end and peace not arriving for another year while the Soviet Union grabs a deeper foothold in western Europe, against the war being over in week’s time and no american casualties, it’s clear to see why the AMERICAN president chose the latter..

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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:11 PM

    A lot of people would have thought the same about Hitler, they expected them to fight to the last as well, but his orders to destroy the Reich were not acrried about and in the end they just sighed and surrendered, stunned and exhausted.

    The idea that the Japanese are these fanatical robots who would never have stopped is kinda racist.
    They’re human just like us.

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    Mute Killjoy The Second
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:22 PM

    There was about 700 meters of Nazi Germany left when they surrendered? He did destroy the Reich, and the entirety of Eastern Europe..

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    Mute Qwerty
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:41 PM

    Yes, they’re human but during their occupation of China they carried out brutal acts of savagery on Chinese civilians including killing competitions where competitors would race each other to kill as many Chinese with swords as they could within a specified time.

    Not even to mention the sadistic human experimentation they carried out on POWs. They were just as bad, arguably worse than the Nazis during that time. Such was their fanaticism and sense of racial supremacy.

    We only hear about the crimes of the Nazis and there’s very little attention given to the war crimes perpetrated by the Japanese. Germans today rightly or wrongly are instilled with a sense of guilt and their school curriculum places lots of emphasis on how bad Nazism was.

    In Japan however, to this day their history books only have a couple of pages that mention war crimes. They don’t go into any detail and many Japanese today are ignorant of the crimes perpetrated by their country during that time.

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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:56 PM

    @Killjoy I was referring to his order to Spear, which was not carried out. Yet they thought back then that Hitlers followers would blindly fight forever like they said about the Japanese.

    @Qwerty, all true but war crimes were committed by all sides, they happen in wars, every single war.
    The CIA experimented on people in the 50s.

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    Mute John R
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:55 PM

    Yes Ryan they are human like us – now! They were an indoctrinated race of subservient and vicious militarists during WW2. The proof of this is in how they behaved. The Pacific war was even more savage than the war in Europe because of Japanese fanaticism and blood lust. They believes everyone else was inferior and treated them as less than human. They also worshipped their Emperor as a God. Those of us living today cannot even imagine the savagery of the war and the consequences for humanity had the wrong sides won. Good men did terrible things so that civilised values could triumph over deluded racist mass murderers in Germany and Japan. This is the nature of total war. Let us hope we never have to experience it.

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    Mute Larry Smierciak
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    Jul 31st 2014, 12:47 AM

    Funny how everyone is ignoring the millions of Chinese civilians the Japanese murdered horrifically. The prisoners of war they murdered, the Korean women they kidnapped and brought to Japan as sex slaves, etc… I love how so many of you are trying to re write history to suit your touchy feely agenda, as long as it is anti USA. The fact is the atomic bomb brought the war to an end far quicker than it would have. America was tired from the hundreds of thousands of men and women that they had lost fighting In Europe and the Pacific and the war was costing a fortune so it needed to end. As Ireland blissfully sat out the conflict, really you should all just go away and be thankful there are people out there that had enough balls to leave the security of their homes and come halfway across the world to fight a great injustice while Ireland sat and watched.

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    Mute Reagan Smash
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:40 PM

    Can’t help but draw parallels between the Pacific war and the current conflict in Gaza. In terms of proportionality, doesn’t Americas response massively outweigh Japan’s tactics?This complete disproportionate response ended the war and saved lives in the long term even though the suffering inflicted on the Japanese was immeasurably more horrific than what is happening in Gaza, yet is there anyone who would argue that dropping the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a bad idea? Not likely.

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    Mute Mark Collins
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:48 PM

    I will cause it was a crime . If you want to fight boots on the ground and win with military blood civilians are not targets ,

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    Mute Derek Durkin
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:52 PM

    Anyone that tries to justify the dropping of nuclear bombs on cities of old people, woman and children just so Japan, who were totally defeated, would sign over land and corporations to the people who control the US are despicable human beings.

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    Mute Mark Hannon
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:57 PM

    The Japanese, military & civilian alike, were fanatical in their support of the Emperor!! He would have allowed the Japanese empire ‘Honourably’ fight to the last man in his name! The American’s hammered home their intent with the dropping of the A-Bombs forcing the Emperor to consider surrender and to seek terms. You can argue that the civilian population were unlawfully targeted in the instance of the Atomic Bombs being used, but truth be told they would have fought alongside or in replacement of soldiers once the allies had progressed into the Japanese mainland, such was their culture and the way they were raised!

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    Mute Mark Collins
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:36 PM

    Japan was spent at the time of the bombs no aircraft carriers .no large capital ships .low on fuel rubber and some metals ? No ally to help resupply . How long would it have lasted weeks not months not years .

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    Mute Eric Lensherr
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:36 PM

    As mentioned above, there could have been an effective display of atomic power over farmland, an island, anywhere but a densely populated city.

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    Mute Michael Mctague
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:24 PM

    Why did they not surrender after the first bomb then ?

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    Mute John R
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:00 PM

    Derek if you going to comment then try to read a few history books and not base your knowledge on Fiction. The Japanese were not defeated and would not admit defeat.

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    Mute beachcomber
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:47 PM

    No matter how much duress a person is under they always have a choice! This man had a choice. He took the easy option and killed thousands of civilians.

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    Mute Reagan Smash
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:03 PM

    And he saved the lives of thousands of his fellow Americans

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    Mute Mark Collins
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:39 PM

    But turned other human beings civilians to shadows on the ground

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    Mute Fozz
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:09 PM

    That’s what war is Mark.
    It’s not some battle laid out where the honourable thing is done and women and children get treated well….not a bit of it.
    Wars kills people wherever they are and they are indiscriminate.
    This man was a soldier and he did his duty…if you had friends killed, mutilated and tortured by an enemy would you hold a high morale ground and not attack back with everything you had?
    I doubt it.

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    Mute Michael Mctague
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:33 PM

    Yes and the wonderful Japanese killed as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese they also raped 20,000 in Nanking

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    Mute Mark Collins
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:36 PM

    Fozz . War is sick and horrible it’s not a Hollywood film I know .but he was part of a crew that killed 1000s of civilians with this bomb . Targeting civilians is wrong and sick from 911 dresden Tokyo London Madrid canary warf Dublin gaza each and every one the act of butchers . You cannot forgive such act because the good guy done .

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    Mute Mike McAllen
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:49 PM

    You don’t seem to understand that supposedly civilised nations are supposed to observe certain rules of engagement, one of which is to strive to minimise civilian casualties. In this instance, the US deliberately and needlessly chose to inflict maximum casualties among an entirely helpless and blameless civilian population. German officers were hanged at Nuremberg for far less. But hey, the Americans were on the winning side, and so this outright atrocity – one of the most appalling war crimes in history – gets chalked up as them ‘doing what they had to do’.

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    Mute James Franco
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    Jul 30th 2014, 7:51 PM

    Maybe israel should drop a nuke on Gaza to suit you and that knob Foggy

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    Mute Jim Flavin
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:32 PM

    There is massive eveidence that there was no need for thiose bombings – that were pit on as a demo for USSR – that were in Manchuria at the time fighting the Japanese – and beating them .
    ”The U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey group, assigned by President Truman to study the air attacks on Japan, produced a report in July of 1946 that concluded (52-56):
    ”Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.”

    and Ike

    ..General (and later president) Dwight Eisenhower – then Supreme Commander of all Allied Forces, and the officer who created most of America’s WWII military plans for Europe and Japan – said:

    The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.

    ..
    perturbed by my attitude….

    Admiral William Leahy – the highest ranking member of the U.S. military from 1942 until retiring in 1949, who was the first de facto Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and who was at the center of all major American military decisions in World War II – wrote (pg. 441):

    It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.

    and MacArthur
    ..General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb.
    The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor.”
    The bit about the retention of the emperor is important – that was a sticking point .

    These guys were war criminals – just as the guys who used the gas were – following orders was /is no excuse .

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    Mute sydney shaw
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:41 PM

    Is moma proud of little boy today.

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    Mute Tomas Lyne
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:04 PM

    That bomb was only dropped to show the Russians that they had possession of it.At the time Japan were defenseless in the air especially after the failed kamikaze offensive and should be noted America actually killed more people when they firebombed Tokyo,a place that because of the building materials used at the time went up in flames like kindle.I know the death toll reports come in after the war but surly they knew there was no real need to “whip out the Nukes”

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    Mute Ciarán Masterson
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:52 PM

    @Tomas Lyne

    The Japanese still didn’t accept the demand for unconditional surrender before the atomic bombs were dropped. That means that, obviously, the fire-bombing of Tokyo didn’t work.

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    Mute Boganity
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:51 PM

    Correct Ciaran, they where issued two warnings of what was about to happen in the weeks prior and they choose to ignore them.

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    Mute ÉiRed
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    Jul 31st 2014, 12:18 AM

    Amazing how a story like this brings comments such as ‘He was only following orders’ to explain his actions and then you have stories of nazi soldiers facing trial for war crimes getting the same explanation…double standards much?

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    Mute David Jordan
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:48 PM

    In war the difference between a war crime and a ‘necessary evil’ is whether you are on the winning or losing side, even in the most justified wars the best you can expect is grey vs. a much darker shade of grey.
    I often think when General Lee said ‘it’s good that war is terrible, or else we’ed grow too fond of it’ he was putting far too much faith in mankind.

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    Mute Ablitive
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:45 PM

    Hiroshima in Numbers… August 6th 1945 = 08/06/1945 = 0+8+0+6+1+9+4+4+5 =33

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    Mute Ablitive
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    Jul 30th 2014, 8:56 PM

    Nagasaki in Numbers …August 9th 1945 = 09/06/1945 = 08/06/1945 = 0+8+0+8+1+9+4+4+5 =36

    ….The name of Satan is mentioned 36 times in the new testament and 36 is the triangular root of 666.

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    Mute Ablitive
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:00 PM

    0+9+0+8+1+9+4+5=36

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    Mute Fozz
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:11 PM

    Go away with your nonsense….is Zeus also mentioned or how about Hades?
    gbshh1te.

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    Mute An Inquiring Mind
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:30 PM

    Break out the calculator man, coz your numbers is all wrong. Your first post is giving me a 37, but you is going all 33 on me. What you saying?

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    Mute Boganity
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:48 PM

    Inquiring Mind that’s just Frank he lives in his own personal universe and his conspiracy theories are as obscure as they come.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jul 30th 2014, 10:56 PM

    Call me a traditionalist, but I’m not quite sure how this one works out either?:
    August 9th 1945 = 09/06/1945 = 08/06/1945 = 0+8+0+8+1+9+4+4+5 =36

    You’re slipping Frank…

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    Mute Ablitive
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:00 PM

    Avina Laaf … You obviously didn’t follow the correction in the follow up post… If this was a chat forum I would insert Roll Eyes.

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    Mute Ablitive
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:03 PM

    It will be interesting to see what date the next major false flag will fall on when we add up the date… ….11, 111, 17, 777, 33. etc

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:10 PM

    So what am I missing about this bit?:
    “August 9th 1945 = 09/06/1945 = 08/06/1945″

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    Mute Ablitive
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:18 PM

    If you add up those two dates you get 33 and 36 respectively .. (I am using a portable device)

    Another interesting fact ……

    ………………The 33rd parallel runs EXACTLY between Hiroshima and Nagasaki

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    Mute Ablitive
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:28 PM

    Avina Laaf…. 9th August 1945 = 09/08/1945

    August is the 8th Month

    9 +8 +1+9+4+5 = 36

    Is that clear now?

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:31 PM

    Not really Frank – you still haven’t explained what this is supposed to mean:
    “August 9th 1945 = 09/06/1945 = 08/06/1945″
    or was that just a random part?

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    Mute An Inquiring Mind
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:34 PM

    I’d say you’d be great at calling out the Bingo.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:37 PM

    Satanic Bingo! Grand prize a date with the Devil himself :-D

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    Mute Ablitive
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    Jul 31st 2014, 12:54 AM

    Avina Laaf…Made the correction.

    .. you are trolling

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    Mute Ablitive
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    Jul 31st 2014, 12:57 AM

    An Inquiring Mind MH17 and UK 7/7 were perfect Bingo dates.

    Crashed on 17 July 2014 = 17/07/2014 (2+0+1+4 =7) Total contains = 777
    London Tube Bombing False Flag 7 /7 / 2005 (2+0+0+5 = 7) 777

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    Mute Brian Casey
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    Jul 31st 2014, 5:21 AM

    Exactly. The New Testament is definitely a source of factual information

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    Mute Patrick Behan
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    Jul 30th 2014, 9:10 PM

    War hero my arse, he was a murder that got to live to long.

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    Mute tractor1000
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    Jul 30th 2014, 11:28 PM

    Nice handy killing in one go instead of dragging it out like Israel!

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    Mute Anthony Halpin
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    Jul 31st 2014, 1:01 AM

    May he rot in hell.

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    Mute Boganity
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    Jul 31st 2014, 10:55 PM

    That statement is unencumbered by the facts.

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