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YESTERDAY’S BUDGET could be the last in Irish history to be delivered in December, the ministers responsible for delivering it have said.
Brendan Howlin said the government was looking to address the annual habit of having to announce cost-saving measures in the run-up to Christmas, one of the most expensive times of the year.
Michael Noonan told RTÉ Radio 1 that proposals currently before the European Parliament – the so-called ‘two pack’ – would see Eurozone countries required to submit their annual budgets to Brussels to ensure they do not breach deficit guidelines.
This is a follow-on to the terms of the Fiscal Compact treaty agreed by Ireland and Eurozone countries earlier this year, which places legal limits on the size of a country’s budget deficits, relative to the size of its own economy.
The two-pack measures would mean countries would submit their draft Budgets for oversight by October, so that countries which have breached their agreements can be asked to amend them.
Noonan said the government had yet to decide on the exact impact this would have for Ireland.
Ministers were still “wondering whether to bring it in as a draft” in October, and allow two months of debate and reaction to its terms, or to bring the actual Budget process forward by two months so that the version being submitted to Europe was the final edition.
“I’m not too sure our system would sustain a draft budget announced in October, and everybody ganging up to stop it between then and December,” he said.
Howlin added that the programme for government contained a commitment to give the Dáil greater involvement in the Budget-making process, and this was something he intended to develop in the coming years.
The comments followed remarks by Pat Kenny that many of the Budget’s most difficult measures, like the property tax, had been leaked to the media in advance of the Budget so as to soften the public and blunt the impact of the government’s actions.
Noonan said it was “right to be critical” of the leaking culture, saying this was “not the way to do business”.
“As we get closer to the date, the circle of people who actually know what’s in the Budget gets very wide,” he conceded.
Those f**king bastards. This is basically a non violent repeat of Hitler = Germany ruling all.
Oh great, another Daily Mail reader still fighting World War 2.
Yeah, Germany want to rule Europe. The German taxpayers love sending billions to badly run countries like Ireland and Greece.
If there was a referendum in Germany tomorrow on kicking Ireland out of the EU and the euro how do you think it would go?
@Neil would they be asked to vote twice if the EU didn’t like the first result? Germany are borrowing money true but it is Ireland that will pay for it with Interest to Germany.
It’s just basically the old order with new tools.
That comment is just offensive. Totally clueless.
@Cathal
Ireland can leave the EU and the euro any time it wants.
Unless you have mad visions of German stormtroopers parachuting into Ballyhaunis then you must admit this.
We are in it because a unilateral withdrawal would be seen as such a kamikaze act that any new Irish currency would be worth buttons . And we would not have the access to cheap finance like we have at the moment which is avoiding the country having to balance the budget overnight.
I repeat again: Ireland can leave the euro and EU anytime it wants. It’d be messy. Far more messy than those who woud Ireland to be part of the UK will admit. But it could do it.
Do you really think the German army would invade? Is that your view?
@ Neil What planet are you on? To answer your question No.
I’m sorry but wasn’t the main problem with Hitler the violence? non violent hitler = shouty ginger with stupid tashe
Will they kick France out of the elite bond system once they get downgraded or is this a ploy to protect the French
The Merkozy pact sbourke
Finland eh? A small country on the fringes of Europe, now one of the “elite”.
Good luck to them. They took the euro, but are a very well run country, with well regulated banks, and fair levels of public sector pay.
If only Ireland could have been more like them.
Still blaming the public sector for our economic meltdown Neil. I give up…
High public sector pay rates are a major element in our yawning deficit. The public sector in Finland are paid less yet achieve far better results. They are widely thought to have the best education system in the world.
Neil, change the record. You only seem to get your facts from the public sector bashing Sindo. I bet you public sector workers are paid much less in Ecuador too so unless you compare salary to cost of living your point is almost redundant. Yes I agree top ps salaries are unjustifiable but the vast majority in the public sector earn less that €50k and many perform specialized functions such as teaching, policing, health care etc so naturally professional salaries are going to be higher than the average industrial wage. I also agree as a public sector worker that millions could be saved by sharing services and better efficiencies etc. You want to see public sector pay slashed ok?? Was the 22% cut already taken not enough for you? I’d take another 20% paycut tomorrow but only if my mortgage provider agreed to give me a 20% write down on my mortgage. I use my salary to pay my bills. I’m not going off on 2 foreign holidays a year and driving a 11 reg car. I pay PAYE and I pay for my rolls royce pension as some commentators call it. I’m just about coping like everyone else, so listening to you rant on about public sector pay all the time when you’ve only got a distorted view point is tedious. Public sector workers did not ruin Ireland, the banks did. Compendo?
The majority of public service workers never expected to be rich for doing important and difficult jobs (nurses, garda, social workers etc) and were almost looked down upon for choosing these careers when things were booming. Now all you twits who bought huge houses and apartments in Bulgaria etc complain that these same workers are the cause of all the trouble?
Silent P – you do know what will happen to your wages if didn’t have the bailout funds – right?
We would be talking about an immediate €20Bn adjustment.
The simple fact is this, we have to cut expenditure and raise income. Neither of these can be done in a palatable way but they still have to be done.
Silent P….ah Finland is much more expensive to live in than Ireland. I’ll leave it to Neil to equate whether Their Public service get paid less relative to their own cost of living or indeed relative to the cost of our public service.
Silent P
Pubic sector pay and pensions in Ireland were built up to highest average levels in Europe by a Fianna Fail government that gave us benchmarking and other giveaway,s without any thought to whether they could still pay all that when the property market cooled.
Well that property bubble has collapsed and guess what, there’s no money to pay that massive PS pay and pension bill. The IMF are sending billions to help pay it. For how much longer they will pay it we will see.
The elevated rate of PS pay in Ireland is a direct result of that property bubble then bankers fueled. If the bankers had been under a tight leash in Ireland like they were in Finland then there would have been no property bubble, but guess what, you would not have seen the Irish PS become the best paid in Europe either.
I
Part of me hopes we reach Armageddon and public sector salaries are cut by 40%+. I’ll be able to come on here in a years time and tell you it didn’t improve the economy one bit. In the meantime enjoy being so bitter.
One doesn’t expect it to necessarily improve the economy, but it will certainly help close our budget deficit and reduce our borrowing. That in itself would be an important starting point.
So one of the enticing things about the Euro as a currency in the beginning was that it was tied to Germany’s old currency, yes…? What’s the point any more if Germany wants to race ahead with five others, four of whom it shares a border with? I don’t know how true this elite bond idea is, but if it turns out to have been seriously discussed she’s been completely rumbled as being only out for the good of Germany despite all her banal rhetoric about loving Europe.
Have you ever thought that any political leader anywhere is interested in anything other than their own country/ voters? Apart from dictators whose interests are even narrower.
one thing for sure our leaders are not interested in either their country or their voters
OMG – she actually smiles !
The journal.ie picture pixie has a wry humour!
Yeah she does, I had to look twice, thought the eyesight was going there!!
I know one could get tied up in conspiracy theories etc but the way the like of Moodies and S&P decide to downgrade ratings without explaining how or why they reach their decision one would wonder is there another agenda being followed behind the scenes. Who are these rating agencies. Who if anyone controls them. It seems sometimes that we are all being manipulated into a position where one big power in Europe ie Germany will eventually literally have control over all of Europe aided and abetted by France. More or less the same as was attempted in WW2. It also looks like if we are to be “freed” it will once again be Britain who will make the stand against this takeover. If Ireland had any sense it would pull out of euro now and align itself with sterling before we are relegated to being the beggar outside the door of the feast begging for scraps from our German masters.
Well put CMD. The historical precedence for all of this is uncanny – Europe divided along ancient lines and Britannica cautions it’s consuls.
I do think it’s correct to look to historical parallels – but I’m not sure about the WWII analogy. Seems to me that Germany are as much at the mercy of “the markets” and global capital as any other sovereign nation at this point. It’s almost more a feudal situation, or even pre-feudal.
The new Reformation Niall. The Reformed Church of Mammon!
What brought the Nazis to power in Germany in the 1930s was massive deflation, austerity, high unemployment caused by a credit crunch as a result of global recession…..sounds familiar. Europes political leaders have a responsibility to ensure history does not repeat itself…so far they have failed miserably mainly due to Germany’s revisionism in thinking that inflation is the danger.
Why would the Germans want to invade anybody now anyway? They are in charge already
Just what was Nick Clegg coming over from the UK for ? He canceled out of respect for Enda Kennys bereavement. Bet hes back soon.
I wonder what Pontificus Maximus has to say about this?
If you want historical comparisons then WW1 is a better bet. A complex series of alliances that led to a large part of the world being drawn into a cataclysmic event leading to instability, a further cataclysmic event (WW2) and a consequent realignment of power structures.
Another historical comparison… Punishing citizens with austerity to pay for the sins of their leaders was another underlying cause of WWII.
Comparisons to WWII ate not exactly helpful. I do think it’s true though that the situation is being mishandled, with the leaders of certain countries trying to gain leverage over other other states rather than concentrating on finding a stable solution. Is it better to be a general of a failing army than a lowly captain during peacetime. Merkel took a risk, choosing to use the current situation to strengthen Germany’s position within the EU, and she’s lost through backing the wrong horse. Unless she’s lucky enough to be around for a miracle, she’ll be out of a job when all of this settles down. The fact is that, no matter what, the EU member states are not going to vanish from the planet, and they will need to produce goods and services and to trade with one another. These needs will, eventually, overtake the political playground pushy-pushy. And sooner would be better than later…
Either there is a technical issue with this site or my phone or I just can’t follow what’s going one here. The article is about elite bonds. Below it states tat there has been 2600+views and 39 comments. I scroll down and there are 4 comments only. 3 of which mention a world war (there is no mention of either war in the article) and the last comment focuses on pay cuts. I refreshed it twice.
Anyway, what do you mean when you say Merkel backed the wrong horse. I believe Germany are major beneficiaries of this bail out era. And the only reason she is against Eurobonds is because Germany would lose out on the income they earn from lending to the likes of us.
@cormac – I’ve been living in Germany for six and a half years now, and so I’ve been around for the whole of Merkel’s reign of power and for the euro crisis. I could go into detail, but Merkel was far from a unanimous choice when she was elected, there’s always been a large euro sceptic “bring back the Mark” lobby and the economic situation is rapidly heading south. Jobs dying up, no minimum wage, an over-generous but highly unfair social welfare system, bloated civil service, escalating cost of living and an office property bubble on the verge of bursting. This is only my opinion, but the view of Germany as superior and economically stable is both untrue and was actively promoted by the current federal government. And it’s begun to backfire over the last few months. I don’t mean to say it’s as bad a situation as Ireland’s in, and it’s easy to say ” ha ha” like Herman Munz, but life’s just scraping by and I’m getting used to seeing large groups of police in full riot gear. And that’s what I mean when I say that Merkel took a gamble but backed the wrong horse…
This is a great idea, let’s hope it pulls through.
Six Elite nations standing ,not on our shoulders, but on our backs mashing us into the ground! How long again before the elite split and they all want to be top dawg !!!Then what ???
Donal I get that. My argument is the Government needs to look seriously at reducing the costs of running the country before they cut peoples income again. Cutting pay is the easy, lazy way of balancing the books on a macro level, but less income leads to less expenditure in the real economy etc and causes real pain to working families who pay for everything and get nothing back. The waste is the real problem not the average public sector salaries.
so she finally did something this is good. In fairness to her she was being asked to bailout italy which she could not do. Germany has to look out for its own too. unfortunately for them they need the euro too to keep their export costs low.
have your say