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RTÉ puts out a lot of programming. Personally, I don’t ‘get’ the Angelus, but I don’t watch the football either. I’m not calling for RTÉ to stop putting out the football. FFS people, quit being so offended by everything.
This is what we should do with visiting celebs and dignitaries, instead of sticking a pint in their hand. Get them to cameo in the angelus. I can see it now Ban Ki Moon gazing toward the horizon, pondering lifes mysteries to the sound of………. Bong, bong, bong. Next week Tom Cruise.
TV is only ‘chewing gum for the eyes’ – taking a little while to reflect must always be a good thing.
The Angelus is also a reminder of our Judeo-Christian heritage, to which we owe a great debt,
And before the usual mob start whingeing about paedophile priests, workhouses etc. it could’ve been a lot worse,- if Charles Martel’s Christian army hadn’t beaten the Muslims at the Battle of Tours (October 732), and the Pope’s fleet hammered them again, at the battle of Lepanto(1571), – We would now be listening to wailing from minarets, 5 – times a day, stoning rape victims to death, beheading non-believers & 50yo. men would be marrying 9yo. little girls.
Look around the streets Francie they are here , the brave liberals who find Christianity an easy target will tie themselves into knots defending the wearing of veils / burkas , forced marriages and all the ” cultural ” delights on offer from Islam
That’s a bad caricature of liberals. There are plenty of liberals like myself who would never defend Islam and the horrible ‘customs’ that come with that death cult.
What you need to ‘get’ is how unfair it is.
One religion is allowed to dominate Irish lives.
Get human rights instead. Separate Church and State.
Be fair.
Well said Daisy. To add to that, if you’ve got ‘faith’ then you shouldn’t need to go to a church to practice it; religious organisations feed off these ‘faith’ people. Let’s ban all religions goddammit!
Used to like this when I was younger people so busy now it’s ok to take time out for a few secs in the busy life to even just take a breath and reflect on life
It’s sad day when respect for the faith of others is tarnished by the likes of you…. You don’t have to believe, but religion world wide was and will continue to be there well after you are long gone… You don’t change it… It changes you…
To be honest it doesn’t bother me one way or the other, I think people who find it so offensive are looking for something to be offended about, if they looked as diligently for reasons to be happy their lives would be better for it.
If this were to be banned you’d presumably need a reason, and if you had one then it would naturally follow that other calls to worship like church bells and a muezzin, the muslim call to prayer could also be banned. An eye for an eye and everyone’s blind.
“20k to revamp the angelus”?
I can see a hike in the TV licence. You’ve got to laugh. It looks like father Ted episodes weren’t too far from the truth.
At €55 a day…..it’s hardly pushing the boat out…….are things that bad in the States for you Micheal that you feel outraged at the expense. Of course, you won’t get anything like it in the US where you might see a program in between the advertisements and no second is wasted on anything that doesn’t make revenue.
It is not €55 per day. This is 1 minute per day of prime advertising time handed over to the Catholic Church for free. The lost revenue can be calculated in the thousands every day.
Micheal, I’m not religious at all…..but the Angelus is very traditional and is nowadays just a pause for thought.
Although when I hear it now, I chuckle and picture some one with that letterbox headgear rushing to turn it off before it infects their fundamentalist view.
stupid comment Al. They get their pay cheques regardless of where the money comes from. currently more of it than necessary is funded from the licence fee thanks to the angelus.
LOL…Jake…I couldn’t give two f**ks about religion but equally I have no objection to something that many Irish people feel is a public service and not everything should be about making money…if you want that worship of money feeling…move to America like Micheal.
Good point. If the US had the Angelus they’d have a commercial in it or those reflecting would be drinking Pepsi. On a serious note, the Angelus has no business on a publicly paid for station. Why isn’t the Islamic call to prayer on it?
because Ireland isn’t predominantly Islam. I’m not sure of the exact figure but according to the last cencus the vast majority of the country claim to be Catholic. I’m not but complaining about a 60 second tv spot. I don’t pray, the lad next door does. live and let live.
It makes no difference what faith is predominant. The simple fact is you cannot take tax payers money and shove a religious viewpoint down someone’s throat. You can’t do it.
The census question is loaded. The pointless nature of the results has been demonstrated by several surveys that have demonstrated th a t the vast majority don’t give a crap about the religion they label themselves under. Most catholics in Ireland don’t even agree with the basic teachings of the church. Most don’t believe in transubstantiation, the virgin birth or the existence of heaven and hell. Some don’t even believe in god.
Most of us go through our predominantly Catholic schooling in Ireland whether we believe in God or not……but I will say that most come out the other side whether they believe in God or not with a pretty good moral compass as to what is good or bad and above all a very tolerant nature.
I would rather live in Ireland with its Angelus, where I can safely express my opinion about my beliefs or lack of…..without fear of actually losing my head to some extreme fundamentalist.
Ireland has come through a change in mindset about being tolerant over the last forty years If the cost of this reminder of tolerance is €20,000 a year…….then it is quite a cheap price to pay to remind us all of being tolerant of each other and our views.
But equally we must be on our guard that intolerant religions do not take hold and destroy the status quo of our wonderful country.
But Susie, don’t you think that RTÉ, as a State agency, should demonstrate an equal policy to all religions of the State. I know they must follow a policy of neutrality when they present programmes on referendums. The only time we had a State religion was with the Established Church of Ireland, this is no longer the case, so I think people would be happier if all religions (or none) had equal access to the State’s national, tax-funded TV channel.
Hardly the point Susie. There are people of many different religions and none in this country paying licence fees to RTÉ, yet those of different religions do not have their daily calls to prayer aired. In fact, you offered that you would like them to have that equal right. Just seems unfair to me.
George , I don’t know of any other country that shows all different types of prayer callings on one single channel . people take offence way too easily these days to all sorts of things and I just don’t think that because some people take offence to it that we should stop the Angelus . could you just imagine what the stations would be like to watch if it had to stop and show all the different religious pray callings ?
I don’t believe the offence is as a result of the religious aspect, it’s about equality. As I wrote further down in this thread, I believe that Islam, as the fastest growing religion in the State, has a legal case for its calls to prayer to be aired. RTÉ has an obligation to be impartial in all areas pertaining to religion. It would be interesting to see how RTÉ would respond to such a challenge.
“But equally we must be on our guard that intolerant religions do not take hold and destroy the status quo of our wonderful country,” ye say Al Ca.
Like those that shoved girls into slavery in Magdalene Homes, that stole and sold their babies, that keep people ignorant of sex education, that make a sin of all to do with sex, that deny women control over their own bodies, that flung the bones of almost 800 babies in a septic tank in Tuam, that protected pedophiles, that seized control of 90% of schools so it almost impossible to avoid having one religion shoved down your throat in school? That kind of fundamentalism, d’ya mean?
Put human rights #1, not proselytism. Let religious instruction/propaganda happen in religious centers for those that choose that; not on our airways and not in our schools.
It’s scandalous that it continues in my opinion. Separation of church and state should be respected. Everyone free to follow whichever religion they choose. It’s not the fact of a bell ringing for a minute on the telly, it’s that the state broadcaster is actively, daily, promoting a religion. This just doesn’t happen in other European countries in this day and age.
I notice tuigim that you did not quote where I mentioned we have had a change in mindset in the last forty years to the point where people will get up and walk out of mass if a priest lectures them on SSM.
Every religion has horrors in it past but it appears now that people in Ireland of the RC faith are willing to stand up and try to change what they are being taught…….and actually be…..christian.
What about some nice classical music instead. I think those bells are depressing. It reminds me of
The old heavy Catholic Ireland. I agree with Biscuits and Tuigim. Separate the Church and State
Completely.
Because Christianity is the best religion?
Sez who?
Don’t you think all religions think their’s is best?
Why should one be supported on radio?
Because the pedophile, McQuaid, pushed his fascist version of control on us long ago so we should not question that?
No thanks. I prefer freedom to propaganda.
Love the Angelus.
At noon I always stop working, fall to my knees and start praying loudly while sprinkling myself with Holy water.
The look on people’s faces is priceless.
The liberals go ballistic (which is the part I love the best – especially when I remind them that their license fee is paying for it)
Get RID of it!!!
It’s traumatic to those who suffered Church Abuse to hear the Church’s power on the airways every single bloody day of their lives. A horrible reminder they can’t escape from.
It tells them the Church still controls this Theocracy of ours.
It’s proselytism.
It’s wrong.
Separate Church & State NOW. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/call-for-separation-of-church-and-state-in-ireland
I believe the separating you’re talking about already happened in 1972, it was the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution and Amended Article 44 removing the special recognition of the Catholic Church in the constitution.
completely embarrassing that in 2015 we are still playing a Catholic call to prayer and forcing all residents to pay for it regardless of religion. If we must keep it, this prime broadcast time should be paid for in full by the church.
Jake, not that I’m any big fan of the Angelus, but I think you might find it has become a little more non denominational over the years. I think rte would rather explain it as a peaceful minute. So if you’re not Catholic, you can still have a quiet reflective moment. ( except for the chiming bells, which I said earlier).
Yes, definitely! I see no other religion getting to air their chimes or chants for free. If Buddhists or muslims asked Rte to air something for them on a daily basis would they do it?
never mind the water Niamh, it’s the water streaks on the paintwork when you don’t wash them off straight away that annoys. Moral ? don’t wash you car around 6pm…:)
It needs to go. Its 2015, we are a multi-denominational state, and the state broadcaster should not be imposing a call to prayer for ANY religion when it accepts license money from people of all faiths and none.
I can’t believe that people have red-thumbed you for your disclosure that so many in your family were molested by the Roman Catholic Clergy: probably the same people who want that dreadfully annoying Angelus to continue to be funded by the tax payer! If the Roman Church wants airtime, they should pay for it like any other organisation. But, as the victims of Catholic Child Sexual Abuse soon discover, the Church likes to take the money in, but doesn’t like paying out money!
Yep.
The mindless support for The Angelus in the face of all we know about Church abuses reminds me of the support for the war on Iraq in the States. I could not understand where all the votes against humanity were coming from. At that time many soldiers were paid to be online stoking up support for the war. I have to wonder if Iona has a team working on Angelus support here.
I am truly sorry for what your family went through, Druid Dearg.
If people really stopped to think how many the church damaged, if they really understand the pain, they would not want a daily reminder of the Church’s power on the airwaves.
The angelus is one of a number of reasons why I avoid RTE. It has no place in a modern pluralist republic, which of course Ireland isn’t. The angelus is just one more measure of the backwardness of Irish society. If it was replaced with a pleasant reflective space I wouldn’t object but that truly dreadful, intrusive, depressing monstrosity of a death bell drives me crazy. Frankly, to me it’s an offence against everything wholesome.
You have a strange idea of reflective Bio. The sound of a stream, or rain drops might be reflective. The angelus bell is like a hammer to the head, in my humble opinion :)
When I moved to Ireland back in 2004 and heard it for the first time I thought it was the most bizarre thing I had even heard. Something from another century….get rid of it.
Why is that George? Tommy’s comments made me laugh after a multitude of frankly s*i t comments from a bunch of hateful, hypocritical turds. Probably the same bunch who celebrated Ireland’s modern, accepting culture for equality when we voted ‘Yes’ recently, and now calling the country backward.
But oh! That’s last weeks agenda, time to move on with our complete erosion of tradition in Ireland and wipe the Catholic Religion and its followers off the streets. It sickens me to be honest. If you want equality and tolerance then bloody practice what you preach.
It’s a traditional moment of reflection that lasts one minute. Most people don’t mind it.
There is nothing wrong with having a time eacwhat’sor reflection. Taking stock of what’s happening and what’s important in you life. Most of us need a reminder that sometimes you should get off the merry go round and put your life in perspectate. Keep the Angelus and use it to serve your own personal needs (religious or not).
Scrap it. It’s complete and utter religious nonsense. It’s a symbol for the choke hold that the vile Catholic church still has over a lot of weak minds in this country.
Yes you have my name correct. This is not about a liberal left. This is about a vile organisation getting airtime to air their crap every day at taxpayer expense. I’m tolerant of people’s need to have a “comfort story” to appease their mental weaknesses. If that’s what they want then fine, but I don’t want nor need that dung in my life, least not when it’s taxpayer funded.
It’s difficult to be tolerant of an institution that’s responsible for brainwashing, racketeering, money laundering, tax evasion, child sex abuse, symphiosectomy, and the murder of children (Tuam that we know about). I also wonder how many they’ve killed indirectly through the fact their so called teachings leaving those outside of it feel worthless to the point of suicide, most notably gay people and unmarried mothers before that. And all of that is just this past century. So yeah, I do struggle to be tolerant of that organisation and its brainwashed followers. Brainwashing that started at your baptism and got stepped up at your communion. If we could all be religion free till 18 and then were told all about it you’d rightly laugh at it. But since your brainwashed young people are so invested in the churches nonsense that they will defend it at any sign of criticism. Ultimately because they don’t want to be wrong and realise you just die and it goes back to how it was before you were born. Anyhow, that’s what I have to say about it for what it’s worth. Now I’m away to get some breakfast. Way too early in morning for a heavy debate
Tony,
You do not need to be Irish or Christian to be a good person.
Many Irish have different faiths. Many have none. Many of them are wonderful people who do good.
We don’t all have to be Christian, or Catholic to be precise, despite the Vatican’s power-grip on education.
Does the country belong to the Vatican or are we independent?
Keep the Angela’s in any form. Leave a gap and there might be some other form of call to prayer. The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t , if you know what I mean.
I’d keep it purely to offend the easily offended.. it’s been there for years and it’s nice that we have something unique in our society as it seems we are giving away all our other cultural identities so we don’t offend anyone. it doesn’t do any harm on the tv so I don’t see the point in losing it
Don’t think anyone is upset. We want equality for all religions and not just show preference to one. I think Islam, as the fastest growing religion in the State, certainly has a legal case for their call to prayer to be aired too. RTÉ is a State broadcaster and must be seen to be impartial.
Is that a comment bait statement George? I hope so because if not then you really need a good slap of reality, or maybe go and live in Saudi Arabia or even the new Caliphate for a bit.
The problem with comments like yours is that many of Ireland’s ‘sheep’ would happily allow that to happen, until the mask comes off and you realise the Pandora’s box you opened, by which time it’s too late.
@John
I think the Irish people understand only too well well the Pandora’s Box they opened with the revelations of Catholic Clergy Sex Abuse Cases. You appear to be singularly unaware of Islam if you speak of Saudi Arabia and the Caliphate in the same breath. Clearly, you hold both States in contempt, yet you wish to turn this State into one ruled by Rome!
The 5th Amendment removed any special arrangement between Rome and this State. As a result, if you wish to have Catholic daily calls to prayer on the national, State-funded channel, then, RTÉ as an impartial service provider should extend that privilege to other religions too! As Islam is the fastest growing religion in the State, it makes perfect sense for RTÉ to broadcast the Muslim Call to Prayer just as they do with the Catholic Angelus.
Easier to leave it out altogther.
Otherwise it turns out like the ‘Educate Together’ praiseach where they try to teach about all religions, including ones they know little or nothing about. I wonder how much time they devote to Paganism?
Imposssible and futile.
Let the ‘religious’ do their own work to promote their own beliefs in their own institutions.
Separate Church and State.
Susie, in what way am I stirring the pot? I’m using facts and logic. You appear to deride that which you do not understand. You also seem to labour under the selfish misapprehension that it is acceptable for people to listen to your calls to prayer while you completely ignore others’ rights to have their calls to prayer played on the State’s national airwaves. Seems very hypocritical to me!
would your opinion be the same if it was state endorsed called to muslim prayer? I’ve no issue with people being Christian but the concept of this ‘being a Catholic country’ is disrespectful to all the others who do not buy into it.
I think its the bell chimes that put me off, listening on the radio anyway, if they’re going to keep them on the radio, maybe reduce the amount, and reduce the sound.
They dont bother me so much on tv, but thats because there are pictures, and the sound/volume seems to be much more calm.
as part of the Angelus there has to be a certain about of rings / chimes . it doesn’t really bother me because we have a choice to switch it off if we want to . it’s not like we are being forced to listen to them .
No, but we’re being forced to pay for them. RTÉ is a State channel and shouldn’t be an organ of religion, neither should it favour one group’s religion over another!
Their own religion? Susie, there are many religions in Ireland. Ireland doesn’t have a State religion. This is also a republic, where all citizen’s are treated equally. For that reason it is unfair to favour one group.
A Catholic minute, though! I can understand how a previously powerful entity within the State might feel aggrieved that the rights and privileges they felt they had been entitled to are slowly being stripped away. The Roman Catholic Church is really just another organisation in the State vying for control. In reality, there are those who love the Catholic Church, those who despise it and those who are unconcerned one way or t’other! The new order, mostly brought about by wider access to education, is that its position is no longer guaranteed.
Absolutely agree. I listen to the angelus on the radio because I know the news is about to start but it is WAY WAY TOO LOUD. I have to quickly reach for the volume and have to put it back up at the end. I actually hate the angelus.
that is completely irrelevant. the state should not endorse a specific religion. then you get ridiculous situations like people having to baptize their kids against their wishes to attend state funded religious schools!
If they want it to be a non-denominational moment of peace why do they have to fill it with the Angelus bells? RTÉ’s own site highlights this self-contradiction perfectly. They highlight it’s not just religious to people, but insist any proposals must contain the Angelus bells. Ergo it is religious. By all means leave a “moment of peace” in that minute, not least of all because the “Six-One” news has a ring to it. But when it clearly IS religious call a spade a spade.
True, Gerard.
Also, it is not replayed at 7.00 pm on RTÉ +1, because clearly, it is a prayer to be said at 6.00. In effect, even though RTÉ +1 is advertised to start broadcasting at 7.00pm, it in fact, starts at 7.01. RTÉ need to man up and call a spade, a spade!
That face you pull when you start coming up on a really strong pill, over Fatboy Slims Praise You. As the week goes on the jaw gets more twisted and twisted.
It could be rotated as we are a mutl-cultural society now we could have Angelus one day, Muslim call to prayer another, etc etc could be fun, still useless but fun and mutli-cultural at the same time. Disney religious Ireland like…
Whether it should be on tv or not, a €20,000 budget is really not that big for a production of any decent standard. If your gonna do it, do it right… I dont identify as a catholic anymore but id be sad to see this scrapped. I suppose thats good old fashioned irish catholic guilt for ya;-)
George I’m not angry, my comment was more in jest than anything, but I should have guessed the policemen would be in on top of it. No anger here, nothing to see, move on please
I can think of a lot of charities and services for people in need who could do some good with 20,000 of tax payers money. In a modern Ireland we don’t need bongs at 6 o’clock, we need to be looking after the old, sick, and disabled in our society. If it must stay, leave it as it is and donate the money.
I see the Journal haven’t included any of the interviews of people in favour of scrapping the angelus. There should be separation of church and state, so as the state broadcaster, RTE shouldn’t be showing a christian prayer.
No they should stay everyone in my home are not allowed to talk while there on at 6,I’m 46 years old and grew up listening to them and now my kids and grand are a well I live in Dublin there part of us Irsh people
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In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Identify devices based on information transmitted automatically 88 partners can use this feature
Always Active
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
Save and communicate privacy choices 69 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
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