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Calls for new child grooming law to ban online vigilante 'paedophile hunters'

A TD and child protection expert are calling for the legislation to ban vigilante ‘paedophile hunters’.

JUSTICE MINISTER Frances Fitzgerald has faced calls for new legislation against online child grooming to ban vigilante groups from engaging in “sting” operations against paedophiles.

The heads of the Sexual Offences Bill, published last month, would make it an offence to travel to a place with the intention of meeting a child and sexually abusing them, after contacting them online or by phone.

While noting that the bill hadn’t yet been finalised, a Department of Justice spokesperson told TheJournal.ie that:

It is enough that a person intended to meet a child for the purposes of sexual exploitation, regardless of whether they actually meet a child or otherwise.

Although this detail may end up being interpreted by the courts, it would appear to allow for An Garda Síochána and international law enforcement agencies to engage in sting operations – posing as children in order to clamp down on paedophiles.

However, it also seems to open the door for ‘paedophile hunting’ vigilante groups, such as those which have emerged in the UK in recent years.

stinson A man being pursued by vigilante Stinson Hunter

Groups and individuals such as Letzgo Hunting, Daemon Hunter, and Stinson Hunter pose as children – normally girls under the age of 15 – on chat sites, social media and instant messaging apps such as WhatsApp.

Jim Gamble, a renowned child protection expert, and former chief executive of the UK’s Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP), told TheJournal.ie how the vigilante groups usually operate.

They don’t even have to pose as a child who is “looking for sex.”
It can start, for example, with a post on a modelling website, where someone appearing to be a young girl says “I’m 12 years old, and I’d like to get involved in modelling.”
  • Gamble says it only takes a matter of minutes for that “girl” to be inundated with responses from adult men, simply because of the age mentioned.
  • The next stage is “relationship building”, he says, where the men might exchange phone numbers with what they think is a 12-year-old girl, and try to bring the conversation into a more private sphere, where it’s harder to detect.
  • Offenders will then test the waters by sending sexually explicit messages or images of themselves, in order to gauge the response of the child.
  • The contact escalates, and a meeting is arranged, says Gamble, where vigilante groups challenge the offender in a public place, before posting their name, personal details, and a video of the confrontation online.

The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) in the UK, however, has pleaded with vigilante groups to leave child protection to trained law enforcement.

“While these groups may often operate with the best of intentions, we do not encourage action of this kind, which can compromise ongoing investigations into paedophile networks, and could spark an abuser to further harm a child if they feel threatened,” Channel 4 News quotes an ACPO spokesperson as saying.

Police in the UK have also expressed a fear that vigilante groups could actually be infiltrated by by would-be child abusers.

stinson2 A man who arranged to meet a teenage girl for sex is confronted on camera by vigilante Stinson Hunter

For Jim Gamble, one major difficulty with vigilantism is the lack of “a suicide strategy.”

At least two men have taken their own lives after being exposed by a group calling itself Letzgo Hunting and Stinson Hunter – an English vigilante who leads an operation which was the subject of a controversial Channel 4 documentary in October.

People may say, ‘Who cares if they kill themselves?’ Well, their families care, and they haven’t done anything wrong.

Gamble also points out that the consequences of a vigilante sting operation which goes awry can be disastrous.

These groups don’t have the ability to track the offender’s movements, they don’t always know where he lives, or if he works in a place where he has access to children.
So if a motivated paedophile travels to a public park, let’s say, to meet a child, they may see a young girl sitting on a swing, and assume that it’s the girl they’ve arranged to meet.
He could then grab that child, and you, as the vigilante, have lured him there in the first place.

Gamble says he sympathises with the frustration that gives rise to vigilante groups, but that it is “fundamentally wrong.”

I understand why some people become involved in vigilante behaviour when it comes to protecting children.
Every day they read headlines about predators targeting and engaging with children, and it can be very frustrating.

CRIME Internet Jim Gamble in 2005, as PSNI Superintendent and deputy director of the UK Nation Crime Squad PA Archive / Press Association Images PA Archive / Press Association Images / Press Association Images

Actors such as Stinson Hunter have enormous popular support in the UK, and while police have criticised their operations, some have also used the videos and chat logs they gather as evidence leading to successful convictions.

For his part, Gamble proposes the formation of a “Citizens’ Army” of volunteers, recruited, vetted, trained and supported by An Garda Síochána to help them tackle child grooming and abuse.

He says Minister Fitzgerald’s legislation “contains a lot of positives”, and should be widely welcomed.

However, he told TheJournal.ie the bill should include two offences which would “turn the tables on predators and create a real, active deterrent.”

First, it should be an offence for anyone aged over 18 to masquerade as a child online in order to talk to or meet children, even if there is no explicit language or imagery involved.
Unless – they can prove a lawful purpose, for example an academic study or a piece of journalism.
This shifts the burden of proof on to offenders, because proving sexual intent is often extremely difficult for law enforcement.
Second, it should be an offence for anyone aged over 18 to masquerade as a child online, even if their purpose is to catch adult predators.

This would ensure that only An Garda Síochána, agents of relevant state agencies, international law enforcement, or “duly authorised volunteers” would be able to engage in “sting” operations.

10403673_326487564189834_3192045113323598563_n Vigilante Stinson Hunter. Stinson Hunter Stinson Hunter

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn, Sinn Féin spokesperson on justice, is calling for the new legislation to explicitly state that only An Garda Síochána can take part in sting operations against paedophiles.

I’m very concerned that this would be done by people not trained, or delegated by society, to do it.
The focus for the Minister, though, must be to give An Garda Síochána the IT equipment, and human resources that they need.
We have to give the Gardaí every angle they need, and I hope we’ll be teasing through all this in the Justice Committee.

Scroll down to read the General Scheme of the 2014 Sexual Offences Bill or, if you’re viewing this on a mobile device, click here.

Read: Is your child safe online? New laws on the way to combat grooming>

New law means electronic tagging for some sex offenders>

http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2014/12/general-scheme-of-the-criminal-law-sexual-offences-bill-2014.pdf

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35 Comments
    D
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    Mute D
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    Feb 27th 2020, 1:56 PM

    Incoming comments about how they could afford rent if they didn’t have a few drinks on the weekend.

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    Mute Keelan O'neill
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    Feb 27th 2020, 3:14 PM

    @D: but back in my day ……. * angrily shakes fist*

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    SC
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    Feb 27th 2020, 5:53 PM

    @Keelan O’neill: back in my day rent for the year was easily covered by summer work.

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    Mute John Black
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    Feb 27th 2020, 2:16 PM

    It’s a nice idea but it’ll do no good, the rents will increase and the students will still pay it.
    They have to be more radical (not talking about violence) but they need to make a bigger stand. For example, they could protest outside the new accomodation being built and stop work going on there, obviously this isn’t a good thing but it’s just an idea if they want to really put their foot down.

    49
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    Mute Whoswho
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    Feb 27th 2020, 11:41 PM

    @John Black: Rents will NOT increase if people all stand together and say enough is enough! Rents are extortionate and FFG are happy for this to stay so they keep the REITS happy. FFG don’t care about the electorate. People need to stand together

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    Mute Cynical
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    Feb 27th 2020, 2:31 PM

    This is all based on Supply and Demand, Ireland is currently one of the most attractive places in the world for international students to come and study. People who can afford to send their children to study abroad can also well afford these new increases.

    47
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    Mute John Black
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    Feb 27th 2020, 2:35 PM

    @Cynical: so true, and that’s why the new accomodation currently under construction is more like a set of penthouses rather than basic student accommodation

    53
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    Mute Whoswho
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    Feb 27th 2020, 11:43 PM

    @John Black: Irish Universities are not even in the Top 100 of the world. It has nothing to do with student accommodation! There only building student accommodation for the tax breaks

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    Mute Shane Cormican
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    Feb 27th 2020, 1:39 PM

    Jesus I wish I thought of that when i was in college, and they had much more land back then too!!!!

    24
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    Mute Neuville-Kepler62F
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    Feb 27th 2020, 2:16 PM

    Referendum needed to fix the defective Irish Constitution to permanently solve the housing / Rent / Accommodation crisis … else, your great grand kids will face the same … important to bring your ‘young’ brains to the Polling booths …

    https://www.change.org/p/irish-housing-crisis-referendum-on-family-homes

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    Mute David Glynn
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    Feb 27th 2020, 3:19 PM

    They have a case.

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    Mute Ian Breathnach
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    Feb 27th 2020, 5:06 PM

    So at it’s lowest end (€749) it will increase by €30 per annum, few less shots one weekend and it’s sorted. This is a nothing article. We see article after article about how the cost of living is increasing on a monthly if not weekly basis. Even over a 8 or 9 month academic year equates to about 3.50 a month, for accommodation where transport and utilities are a non factor this is a bargain. Wait til these students decide to live and work in the real world and they will see what hardship is really like or will the carrot of taking their degrees overseas be dangled in from of the next government?

    11
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    Mute Pilib
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    Feb 27th 2020, 5:45 PM

    @Ian Breathnach: so based on what it’s like when they finish college and get to experience hardship by having a job (whatever that means) this is isn’t an issue?
    10k a year to just have somewhere to live while going to college (and don’t forget fees/“registration costs” on top of this) seems like an issue to me…
    Also, how is this an equal start for kids? Someone living in an urban area, close to a university can stay at home with their parents but if you live outside a commutable distance you could be hit with these substantial costs just to be able to attend university.
    I know my kid’s college choices will be influenced by what and where we can afford to send them.

    11
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    Mute Ian Breathnach
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    Feb 27th 2020, 6:18 PM

    @Pilib: are you suggesting free accommodation to all students? Is an additional 3.50 a month extortionate? No. In the grander scheme of things does living on campus save money as I stated? Yes. Do you not expect your children to work while in college/university? Are you going to give them a few euro for pints during the week too? The point I’m making is it’s a small increase, regardless of what you think, it is not a huge amount ie one less coffee a month. Minimum wages have increased, obviously these students firmly believe that these properties and the college for that matter run on fresh air. Typically people don’t care how much it costs to run things, the behind the scenes maintenance and upkeep. People are outraged when it is suggested they pay for the services they receive.

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    Mute John Black
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    Feb 27th 2020, 6:25 PM

    @Ian Breathnach: I think you’re missing the point, the issue is that the price is already extortionate and the increase is rubbing salt in the wounds. 4% increase isn’t much if the original rent was reasonable but it is extortionate already.
    As much as you like to think it, these students aren’t scroungers, they have no problem paying for accommodation if it’s a fair price but colleges are using it to squeeze every cent out of students, they’re taking advantage of them.

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    Mute Ian Breathnach
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    Feb 27th 2020, 7:23 PM

    @John Black: explain to me how it is extortionate?

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    Mute John Black
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    Feb 27th 2020, 10:19 PM

    @Ian Breathnach: you pay 8000 for an 8 month lease , so 1000 per person per month, to share an apartment with 5 other people, thats 6000 per month for a basic apartment, now it’s your turn to explain to me how that’s not extortionate.
    How can a college charge 48k for an apartment for only 8 months when “greedy landlords” get slammed for charging 24k for a 12 month lease?

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    Mute Ian Breathnach
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    Feb 28th 2020, 4:36 PM

    @John Black: well, you don’t have to commute so no transport fees, all utilities are included and on site security 24/7 and depending on what halls you are living in there are other “luxuries”. Now I’m open to correction but you say apartment, but aren’t these ensuite rooms with communal living spaces?

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    Mute Peter Farrelly
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    Feb 27th 2020, 4:47 PM

    Students will have Less money for drink and drug consumption

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    Mute Paul O Faolain
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    Feb 28th 2020, 7:25 AM

    No one cares it’s the new progressive Ireland, so suck it up snowflakes

    1
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