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Updated 6.17 pm
THE CITIZENS’ ASSEMBLY has voted to recommend that the Eighth Amendment be replaced or amended, not repealed.
It means that the citizen-led body set up by the Oireachtas has recommended that Ireland’s constitution deal with abortion in some way, but in a different way than it currently does.
If this recommendation was accepted by the Oireachtas it would mean that a referendum would be required.
The vote was by 50 votes to 39. A total of 91 members of the assembly were present at today’s meeting and all voted. Two people decided not to state an opinion.
The question put to them was:
Do you think Article 40.3.3 should be repealed (i.e. deleted and not replaced) or replaced or amended?
- Option 1 – Article 40.3.3 should be repealed (i.e. deleted and not replaced)
- Option 2 – Article 40.3.3 should be replaced and amended
- Prefer not to state an opinion.
Earlier today, members voted that the Eighth Amendment should not be retained in full.
This latest vote was designed to see what kind of change they favoured.
Up to four votes will be taken over the next two days depending on the decisions taken by the assembly members.
A draft wording of each of the votes has been prepared in advance but the final wording of the ballots may be changed ahead of a vote if it is deemed necessary.
In the first vote, the members voted on whether the Ireland’s constitutional ban on abortion should remain. They were given two options in this case.
The first question put to them was:
Do you think Article 40.3.3 should be retained in full or not retained in full?
- Option 1 – Article 40.3.3 should be retained in full
- Option 2 – Article 40.3.3 should not be retained in full
The result led to an 87% vote against retaining Article 40.3.3 of the constitution.
That amendment was effected in 1983 after a referendum and acknowledges the right to life of the unborn, equating it with the mother’s right to life.
The next vote was held at 1.20pm and asked if the favoured repealing or replacing/amending the Eighth Amendment.
The results were as follows:
Before the members vote in Ballot 2 there was an explanation of the wording of the ballot and a roundtable discussion on the draft wording of the question.
Members were free to put questions to Laffoy and an expert advisory group. The advisory group is made up of legal and medical experts.
No changes were made to the wording of the ballot.
Following their recommendation that the Eighth Amendment be replaced or amended, members were then asked how they think change should be enacted.
Before the vote and after recommendation and vote from members, the draft of Ballot 3 was changed to make explicit reference to ‘the rights of the pregnant woman’.
This is Ballot 3 that members voted on:
In the first option, members were given the option to state that the constitution should authorise the Oireachtas to legislate for abortion. The assembly voted by a majority of 57% for this option.
The other option would have recommended that the Eighth Amendment be replaced or amended with a constitutional provision that directly addresses termination of pregnancy, any rights of the unborn, and any rights of the pregnant woman.
As they have chosen Option 1, members will now be asked to provide guidance to the Oireachtas about the circumstances, if any, in which they feel abortion should be lawful.
This is the ballot that will gauge their recommendations:
Ballot 4B will be addressed by the Citizens’ Assembly tomorrow.
The report from Laffoy to the Oireachtas will be based on the results of the voting as well as the ballots themselves and any other recommendations assembly members have themselves made.
That report is due to be delivered to the Oireachtas before the end of June and a committee is being established to examine its recommendations.
The Citizens’ Assembly continues tomorrow.
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Let them kill each other sure, do us all a favour, as long as they don’t do something a stupid as this incident where innocent bystanders could easily have be hit also.
It’s sure fire way of getting rid of the competition.
Drugdealers❗️
The problem with just letting them kill each other is there will always be bystanders. They are coked off their head half the time going out with those rifles acting like it’s call of duty instead of real lives they are destroying, they’re getting a high out of it. A guy high on coke or a dozen other simultaneous drugs is not going to be a marksman.
The Guards got rid of Uzis because they had a tendency to spray, even with experienced hands guiding them, now imagine the weapon is worse than an Uzi, and in the hands of someone who has 5% the training, 1% the brain power , is messed up on a load of drugs, and is usually a big bulge of fat or a stick figure of bones so the kickback will overpower him causing the weapon tto spray…bystanders will die.
Listening to rte news one. They say the claim is very suspect. Gardai have an open mind and their suspicious about the claim. Gardai are puzzled about the claim it’s the cira. Hmmmm
I’m not defending these guys but how on earth would you have a clue if they’re coked up or not? Were you standing there with a drug testing kit in the Regency lobby? And a Romanian manufactured AK47 on single shot is nowhere near as inacurrate as an Uzi. That’s a ridiculous post.
Well why would the CIRA kill somebody 3 and a half years later for the murder of a RIRA member. Makes no sense.
Convenient time for them to accept responsibility as people hear RA and automatically think of SF involvement due to the incredible stupidity and lack of knowledge of a significant portion of Irish society.
Possibly paid a few quid by another group of drug dealers (who they are allegedly targeting) also to accept responsibility to take some of the heat away.
The whole idea of the development of the AK series of weapons is their ease of use so comparing them to Uzi’s is ridiculous. The reference to 1% brain power is another stupid comment considering that the operation was well planned and well executed to a point considering that it consisted of a 6 man team, the use of fake uniforms and one suspect in drag. The drugs reference is also a load of BS unless there is any evidence of such use. “the kickback will overpower him” again another load of bollocks. The AK has both auto and semi auto firing and considering that they used semiauto in the hotel the chances of it magically going on to full all by it’s self and spraying the crowd is just pure magical thinking. This is a weapon used the world over by people of all types with very little training to lethal effect.
Gav, you have hit the nail on the head there. I would think that this was an outsourced hit that suited the CIRA seeing as they wanted revenge for Alan Ryan and being paid to do it was probably a bonus. There is a lot of fluidity between the various dissident factions over the years and while they have their differences it isn’t unheard of for them to work together when it suits them. There have been fears that dissident groups are now getting together in a more cohesive way over the last 2 years considering that vehicles used in their operations in NI are being sourced more and more in the Republic.
I would hazard a guess that the people who committed this murder couldn’t even list the 6 counties never mind have dissident republican views
Biggest load of shite I’ve heard!! No way did the CIRA do it. No love lost between them and alan Ryans faction, so why would they bother taking out someone who had nothing to do with his killing?? The dogs on the street know who killed alan Ryan and it wasn’t David byrne. Very strange statement to make, whether it genuinely came from them or not, there’s too much that jus doesn’t add up!
Exactly Brian. One would wonder how those small statured Vietnamese ever leared how to master the AK47 with it’s ‘ferocious’ kickback. It’s a wonder that they ever managed to kill any Americans.
Brian, if you were listening to Today with Seán O Rourke today, his interview with two journalists appears to link the killing of a drug dealer from Crumlin with the IRA, albeit I thought they were all now singing from the one hymn sheet, not CIRA.RIRA etc.
The journalist drew parallels with this shooting with the Provisional’s and their use of similar weaponry, an hour before this story broke on media elsewhere, at the time I thought it was simply an attempt by FG/ILP to link the IRA to a shooting before an election, perhaps not!
Very convenient time for the likes of FG/FF/Lab to start asking SF questions about IRA “atrocity”. It stinks to be honest
I fired an AK 47 out in Cambodia. There was a kick from it, but with training it would be very effective.
CIRA……. just continuing what the PIRA have done for decades.
And some people want innocent jurors to put these animals away….
Joey, I think that I heard the end of the conversation where the “evidence” was based on the use of the Romanian AKM and the fact that it was formally used by the Provos. If that was all that they were basing it on then it would be a very thin straw to grasp considering that the Balkans and the Middle East is awash with every sort of weapon imaginable. I think that it was Paul Williams who was saying that if the shooters wanted to look like cops then they could have easily used HK MP5′s or MP7′s but that they chose to use AKM’s to prove up their dissident credentials. The fact that MP7 ammo is hard to get as it is only supplied to security forces as they fire a 4.6×30 and so sourcing it is a problem.
The MP5 would be a better weapon but why go to the trouble of importing a few MP5′s when you already have weapons? The average Joe Soap doesn’t know what sort of weapons the ERU carry and considering that the operation was a quick in/out one then all the shooters needed was the element of surprise and by the time someone asked what the cops were doing with AKM’s then the shooters were gone.
My money is on dissidents carrying out the shooting either for revenge or payment, maybe both. The media and of course all of the main political parties will invariably try to link Sinn Fein to it even thought the CIRA have ongoing active death threats against SF members and TD’s but that won’t stop FG especially lie to the public.
Dissident republicans are AGAINST the Good Friday Agreement and whereas Sinn Fein are FOR the GFA. Out of the Fine Gael/Labour government and Sinn Fein which of those parties can say that all of their members or representatives have been actively for the GFA since it was signed?
On reflection it’s beginning to dawn, that there is a ‘Dark Forces’ claim emerging – knowing the past history of British dirty tricks.
There would be every reason to believe, from our past experience of the Dublin & Monaghan bombings , that at a vital time , that laying claim would be seen to do damage to the Electoral prospects of One particular Political Party ?
Fairly obvious isn’t it ?
This claim has not been verified by code words or intelligence. SLOPPY JOURNALIUSM JOURNAL!
The weapons look like the Libyan shipments, but lots were stolen by dissidents in 1997/8.. Just underscores dissident links to drug gangs.. Trying to link the story to SF is quite pathetic..where did they get the uniforms and kevlar helmets??! Very strange..
Shinners finding away to blame goverment parties for this typical shower of deflectors
Agreed on probable source, if so, there will be a foolish gang who attempts to obtain revenge, no fan of dissident’s in Republicanism but, in the real world, what can na Gardaí do to uphold the law against filth who would steal their neighbors milk or pint?
Yeah I get the impression from Littleone and John that they suggesting FG, Lab or FF had something to do with this call. I mean seriously.
You are an unapologetic follower of revisionist politics .. You are a shameful re interpreter of nationionalist and republican history.. You are a disgrace to nationalism..
For Eddie Barrett
Have you ever fired a real gun Ryan? that hit was about sending out a message and a show of force, think of a micky mouse version of the military parades of china or russia.
small children 9 aand 10 years olds can fire an ak. i was using a shotgun on my own when i was 11 or 12, im sure the guards are not interested in that as the owner of the gun is well over 20 years dead at this stage lol.
it would have a far stronger kickback than a little ak 7.62 short. any fool can fire an uzi or an ak47. they could not miss at the ranges they were firing at in fairness. uzi dont spray, all automatics will have muzzle clim if you let them off on full auto, and how long will a 30 round clip last on full auto? not very long, hit nothing and end up getting shot whilst reloading . an uzi is an interesting and simple little gun with 3 main parts, it fires from an open bolt, and has no firing pin as such. a simple effective weapon.
Maybe its time you organized an old Fatwa on the CIRA Dermo!
Bertram – So says a fake gutless troll hiding behind a mask of hate !!!
Has the call been verified ? Is it genuine ?
Not to most right thinking people it’s not
Garda sources now say Spanish criminals carrief out the revenge attack.
Diarmuid, Yes with you…. And a small cage….
they where AK ms which are better aiming Easier to handle and smaller bullet.
Madness that this is rearing its head in this day and age. I suppose a revenge attack was always anticipated. No place for this in modern society
Real, continuity and provos are one way or another aligned to sf
Our IRA is better than your IRA – the people love getting killed by us.
That my problem Stephen Todd- I get confused between “Good Republican” murderers and “Bad Republican” murderers.
Love SF for ever, I love 2 for one every time . SF and IRA 2 side of the one coin. If you do not believe that you need medical, maybe surgical help.
Stephen and Eddie you condemn these lads but you support a party that has basically supported the killers of Paul Quinn and Robert McCartney and Det McCabe. Are these lads who carried out this attack on Friday in some way worse or is it because they aren’t PIRA?
Confusion seems to be a trend with the ould Blue shirts this weather . loosing a few billion here , forgetting to report child sex abuse there and now your confusing criminals masked as dissident republicans with republicans who signed the GFA and surrendered their weapons years ago . There surely must be more on the FG election manifesto than this
Matt I am not a blueshirt , FG , LAB or FF . It would be convenient if I was . Enda Kenny is an idiot.
I am trying to clarify what the difference between a “Good Republican” murderer and a “Bad Republican ” murderer is
I support a party that I see as being an egalitarian one based on social fairness and equality. I was born in 1991, I made my communion the year of the GFA. That’s why I support Sinn Fein, not for the allegations you’ve outlined
Matt that’s the SF response to all awkward questions on here. You’re a Blueshirt blah blah blah. It’s utter nonsense.
Jimmy Jones … You are not allowed point out discrepancies on this matter… It’s unrepublican a chairde…
You’ll grow up at some point Stephen. It’s hard to place any credibility with a party that glorifies murderers and justifies any horrible situation with a ‘but the others’… It’s a cult.
Believe it or not I’m 25 and can think for myself Gordon. I’ve no love for antiquated politics that results in the healthcare housing and childcare being so neglected, all the while the rich get richer. It’s those type of politics that have pushed me towards SF, not some youthful naivety which you seem to imply
@ Jimmy , there is no murder thats good , republican or other wise , trying to connect SF to this crime is laughable and usually the domain of the blue shirts .
@ Jane , I am not a member of SF and i answered Jimmy’s question now what other part of my answer was nonsense ? , the 2 billion or Noonan not reporting child sex abuse ? .
Matt I made it clear what was nonsense. Not everyone that criticises SF are FG supporters.
I pointed out how confused the Blueshirts are lately and you said it was nonsense ? , The unaccounted 2 Billion , Noonan not reporting child sex abuse he knew about for 20 + years , And the constant attempts to link SF with any crime they can , funny attitude for someone who is not a Blueshirt , why would it bother you at all if you are not a FG supporter ?
Diarmuid. Take Jane by the hand to the cage and Edna who came to see you in the park last week
and trough the ke away. we don’t want to here your s..t anymore
I didn’t see that coming.
Extraordinary development. Really interesting that dissidents are attacking crime gangs.
SF Councillor Malachy Quinn will be thrilled as per our conversation. He was just yesterday saying on these boards that even the Gardai acknowledged SF’s anti-drug policy in 1980′s Dublin.
So, Councillor – you still stand over that now do you?
I fail to see the link you are making. They formed after the GFA because they were against it
Of course you fail to see the link, as you didn’t see the conversation. You’re also a shinner.
Regardless whether Sinn Fein have any actual connection to the IRA or not, this couldn’t have come at a worse time for them. No doubt it’ll hurt them
Just because I’m a shinner doesn’t make your comment any less pointless or your link any less irrelevant.
So my comment is pointless and irrelevant and you’re basing it on a conversation you didn’t see and you’re a shinner.
Councillor Malachy Quinn was extolling the virtues of SF’s anti-drug policy during the 1980′s heroin epidemic in Dublin(provos in balaclavas)
Seems he felt nostalgic for the manner in which your party went around beating people in the drugs war, while dealing themselves. The councillor will be delighted that the ‘good ole days’ are back again.
Seeing it now, Todd?
PapaSmurf, don’t even bother trying to argue, the ShinnerBot army is too powerful. I can’t imagine all those hopping over any comment suggesting an IRA link yesterday to come back today, coat between their tails accepting they were wrong.
I certainly see your attempt to spin and distort but I think you’re talking about the PIRA rather than the CIRA. I would also highly doubt the councillor was shouting it from the rooftops, or you wouldn’t be the only one “reporting” it
They are one in the same …
THe provisinal IRA stood down and put their arms beyond use in 2005, and are busy moving forward the peace process. The continuity IRA are dissidents, and nothing to do with the provisionals.
As a quick point, Alan Ryan would have been 14 years of age when the PIRA signed up to the Good Friday Agreement. Thats how much this killing has to do with the IRA of the northern conflict.
One supports peace, the other supports violence. I don’t know what parallel universe you do your thinking in but they appear to be opposites to me no? Sure duck it, why even bother with factual information
Carl
It will make no difference to the majority on this board as SF have a very high level of support here. However to the general floating voters who are not SF it will have an impact, how much I am not sure, but Gerry’s gaff yesterday regarding criminality in general and the special criminal court will frighten off a few. The idea that jurors should go into protection is crazy. I expect to see many red hands, one thing I know for sure is only for the special criminal court no criminal gang members would have been put away in Limerick City when the city came close to anarchy in the 2000s, now all the leaders are in prison.
The CIRA are around since 1986 which makes it over 30 years old I don’t see the connection
Well Todd. Hang on a minute while I listen back to the clip of panicked child shouting “Daddy, help me” as gunmen started shooting around her. I just love the smell of sheer terror with my coffee.
Hey, Todd. Do you think this group would exist if not for Gerry?
The Costa crime gangs are responsible for flooding every community in Ireland with guns and drugs. Associated crime feeds these gangs and funnels millions out of the Irish economy overseas into international crime networks. Narco terrorism ensures an element of impunity for criminals.
Frances Fitzgerald described it as “an “audacious gang” which had acted that day in a “psychopathic, heinous way”.
This is how our current government act every day and they’ve been getting away with it for 5 years!
Ktsiwot
Spot on, I’m not referring to loyal Sinn Fein supporters, more so to those who are undecided for the election in a few weeks time. When the average voter reads about an IRA attack, they automatically link it to Sinn Fein, therefore the timing of this couldn’t be worse for Gerry & co.
Those on here spouting the greatness of Sinn Fein are able to look past terrorism and child abuse scandals, so no doubt this attack will have no affect on their allegiance, it’s crazy.
Papasmurf as you’ll see in my comment above I think this is horrendous. Leave the evocative quotes. With regards to existing without Gerry, what are you trying to say? Please elaborate, I’d love to see where you’re going with that loaded questions
Idiot
CIRA have closer ties to labour via workers party/democratic left as well as mairia rnu cahill, than sf do. What happened was horrid but in no way linked to sf
Listening to rte news one. They say the claim is very suspect. Gardai have an open mind and their suspicious about the claim. Gardai are puzzled about the claim it’s the cira. Hmmmm
Will this killing have an affect on fg ff? They have about as much contact with the cira as sf, it’s absolutely nothing to do with sf or its membership, so you even linking the two is ridiculous.
But Damien SF are the ones saying that getting rid of the SCC is a ‘key objective’ if they’re in government.
FC except since 2005 SF and/or IRA members or associates have been involved in murder, beatings, child abuse cover ups, attempted post office robberies (like in Bray) , spying rings (on both sides of border) rape coverups, fuel laundering and so on.
As Gerry Adams said in 2005
“we refuse to criminalise those who break the law in pursuit of legitimate political objectives”.
Greg
I cannot understand how SF have Gerry as leader, surely there vote would be a lot higher if their leader was Mary Lou or Pearse Dothery.
Do not be so silly, why on earth would this hurt SF?
Protecters of the people?? Thats no problem just make sure next time dont walk into the middle of of a boxing weigh in and scare the shite out of innocent men women and kids who had to witness that.
The establishment up to their old tricks again trying to blame sf.where were the guards I ask o thats right ff fg labour shut the stations down in order to bail out the banksters o will we ever learn one has got to ask..
While I’m loathe to give Sinn Féin a pass on violence, this isn’t their crowd. This is a bunch of drug dealing lunatics. However, Gerry’s quip about gangland not existing must be ringing in his ears this morning. Bad timing. This is part of the reason we need the SCC. Would you testify against these gangsters??
Gangland doesn’t exist… And Jarry was never in the ‘RA.
What makes these gangsters paramilitary? Is it berets? I don’t see any difference in this Ryan gang from any of the other drug dealing low lifes in Dublin?
Do not think it was the CIRA tbh. Time will tell though.
Another reason to keep the special criminal court. The thought of Sinn Fein wanting to get rid of it…madness!!
Your logic fails you
It’s not going to happen. None of their possible coalition partners would ever agree to it, and even if somehow they took leave of their senses and did, all it would take is a ministerial order from a future justice minister to bring it right back.
So Stephen, as a juror in a case against one of these lunatics, you would not be disturbed at all, rather, you would be comforted when their buddies call to your house to help support in you in making the right decision on the jury?
That’s scary if it’s true.
Your hero gerry said this morning there was no such thing as gangland!! What planet does he live on?! Also he Wants to get rid of the special criminal court and instead put jurors under threat of intimidation in witness protection. Did you ever hear such lunacy? So ordinary decent people will have to live their lives under the protection of the state if they are unfortunate enough to be called for jury duty in the trial of an IRA or gangland gurrier? Thank god this man has no chance of getting into power – scary
I’d urge anyone who thinks the Special Criminal Court can seriously be compared to the US GITMO tribunals to take a closer look at it’s case history. They are not as draconian as their image suggests. They frequently fall on the side of what a normal court would do. For example for conviction on membership they are allowed convict on the word of a senior police officer, but they’ve consistently refused to do this without significant corroborating evidence even though membership carries a very light sentence. They are not the bogeymen SF make them out to be.
SF couldn’t have given a bigger pre election present to the other parties than this, simply mind blowing that they are pursuing this agenda against the Special Criminal Courts when you consider the public perception of SF as the political arm of a terrorist organisation. They would do well to avoid mentioning the SCC again though you can be certain every FG, FF and Labour politician will be taking full advantage of this total mess by SF. I would seriously consider voting for any SF candidate while they are pursuing this SCC agenda and would strongly question their motives.
What’s scary Pepper is the red thumbs you’re getting for making a perfectly valid point. The notion that ordinary people doing their civic duty as jurors should have to turn their lives and that of their families inside out and live in fear so that Gerry can demonstrate his point about the “unfairness” of Slab’s conviction is mind boggling. It doesn’t matter if jurors can be put into witness protection. The very fact that Gerry Adams acknowledges that there is a need for witness protection for jurors shows that he knows there is a real problem. And we in Ireland deal with this problem by asking three judges to take the place of a jury. It’s called the special criminal court and bingo, no more jury intimidation, no need for extraordinary measures to protect jurors and their families. SF policy in this area is crazy.
Pepper takes a statement from Adam turns it into something it’s not and trumpets it for all to hear , FG election manifesto to a tee , here is what he actually said .
“First of all, if I can just say this, as a little matter which always irks me, there aren’t any ganglands. There is lazy journalism which uses the word gangland as if these communities were lands that gangs inhabited,” Mr Adams said.
“There are gangs and they are clearly ruthless, they’re mercenary, they’re greedy, they’re very, very, very dangerous indeed.”
Here you go matt:
The baron comments –
“Asked how Sinn Féin would protect witnesses and jurors if there was no such court, the Louth TD said schemes are in place in other jurisdictions to ensure safety.
“In Britain, across the European Union and the USA, they have witness protection programmes and they deal with criminality and they bring those that are accused and they are subject to due process,” Mr Adams told reporters.
“There are measures which can be used to deal with all of that,” he added.”
You are welcome “matt”
lol @ pepper , here is the entire article people can judge for themselves , personally i think it is a bit of a hatchet job , then they threw in the video of the pathetic attempt by that buffoon Kenny to link the weapons used at the hotel to the IRA , The most common assault rifle in the world with over 100 million of them in use world wide and that stupid school teacher tries to link Adams SF and the weapon with the crime , does he not realise how pathetic that looks to every non lapdog in this country .
Well thats wierd. Someone from the continuity IRA ringing the BBC about a shooting in Dublin?
Strange. Especialy given the targets onging and very public feud with a different criminal gang.
As you said FC, the IRA don’t exist…..
“Claiming” to be from the CIRA. Too unprofessional for it to be carried out by them, imo
The BBC reported that the 2 ex IRA members who accused Adams of the involvement of McConville murder were making it up because they hated Adams for doing the Good Friday Agreement and for wanting peace. The 2 that are dead now also wanted to be leaders of S.F. themselves. Many still in those organisations have it in for Adams and S.F. for choosing peace. The whole thing is scary…
There are the IRA, then the RIRA, then the CIRA, then the IRA from 1916 and they are not all the same…
And the PIRA as well….
DIARMUID, Am I right to think that you want the IRA to take up arms in order to prove to other people that your beliefs are right. You want people murdered so you can tell people that you are right, what type of person are you to have that way of thinking???
Another massive failing of this gov, criminals can work away at will. Tom Cloonan was saying the killers wanted the body in the canal to be found, then this killing in broad daylight. After FGs disasterous performance in the last week over things like fiscal space, finance minister can’t add, advisors giving out to eejit kenny, its no wonder this is happening. FG is a joke of a party.
Trying to pack the weelt SF online green book into two sentences is not working out for you.
I guess its the fact that you could write a book on FGs incompetence and eff ups.
Sinn Fein are in government in Northern Ireland, but as they don’t hold the justice portolio are they absolved of any resposibility for criminalty there Adrian?
IRA are alive and well it seems
And being appointed by Labour to the Seanad.Nice try though..
I don’t think it’s the IRA as we know it but rather a dissident faction that formed after the GFA as they were against it
Won’t stop the usual suspects from trying to link this to SF even though the CIRA have Adams on a hit list.
They did not go away, they just changed their name – slightly.
CIRA spilt from the provo’s in 1986, they are connected to “Republican Sinn Féin” — the spilt was down to recognising the Dáil.
No, as it seems to have been a hoax call to the BBC…
Well isn’t that convenient
Do we believe this?
Are you talking to the voices in your head?
Maybe it’s the royal we. As in we are not amused. A little ironic for a sf/ira story.
HA just it time for the election. it seem yfg jumped the gun with their tweet this morning.
i suspect this suits the plan of fine gaels torie advisors. when yo cannot make your party look any better then make the opposition look even worse than them.
who the hell was this anonymous source who confirmed this, WHY did he feel the need to confirm this and to whom did he confirm this…………was the contact no in the phone book.
i would not blindly believe this story…….
why would a terrorist organisation based in ireland carry out an attack in dublin and then rather than contact rte or tv3 they call bbc london ……….nor bbc belfast but london. this whole thing stinks. i suspect this stunt taking advantage of the awful murders has been pulled for political purposes.
FG getting advice from the Tories on how to run the election campaign and so use British assets already set up?
All three were known to Gardai Jax. No innocent bystanders in this incident.
What about the children traumatized buy bullets flying over their heads, we’re they not innocent?
Mr Adams will not be happy
“Crimes on the community will be dealt with by the community” That’s what the RA have always said.
Is that also not the basis of nearly every legal system in the world?? You know.. Jury of your peers??
Do you mean the IRA kangaroo courts or the real courts?
Paddy no it is not. Most societies do not have juries. Many have courts with judges alone. So do we in Ireland for that matter. District Court for example. Also many civil law jurisdictions have judges and few jury courts. It varies. There is no perfect solution. As long as the process is fair the outcome should be fair as well.
These Gangland lads laugh at the Courts and the Guards. The lad who was shot dead was often pictured in the papers driving around in a jeep worth 200k..
Please tell me the last time the district court sent anyone to prison on an indictable charge??
Mary-lou – are these good republicans or bad republicans ?
Well well well, a guy rings the BBC and says it was the continuity IRA , no proof……right before an election…..you have got to be kidding me…..this stinks to high heaven
Very true. This incident never happened; Adams was never in the IRA, man did not set foot on the moon; the earth is flat.
What did they hope to achieve? What has this got to do with Irish freedom?
Irish freedom went out the window a long time ago. It’s all about money and drugs now.
Reading another post, who says it was them who did it? I thought it was because everyone else thought it was as well???
Minister Fitzgerald is more interested in moral crusades than in real crime prevention…. SAD from the “Law & Order” party…..
There’s as much in common with FG & the CIRA than the current Sinn Fein have with them. So pointless trying to drag that up! But if some of you must, then what Labour ministers husband (whos employed as her PA on our money)knows all about carrying out similar gun attacks and served time for his part? Answers on a postcard.
This story is disturbing, no proof whatsover and yet all the mainstream news outlets go with it……Stinks to high heaven…….who actually was involved in this shooting and why was the CCTV security codes changed on the week previous ? The ownerdoes not know and the professional that fixed it said he never seen it happening before……
Continuity IRA dont like competition, about time these lunatics were sorted out for good! We need a special squad to target these individuals.
Gus we do and we need to retain the special criminal court as well.
If SF ever get into power watch lads like this get hired as our new all Ireland armed force, its no secret SF support these vigilante groups over are own Gardai who they don’t even recognise as a legitimate force
CIRA has no connection to Sinn Fein. Another fake FG account on twitter trying to tarnish SF pre-election.
There’s a cohort of people that try to drag NI politics into every criminal act that happens in the Republic (btw I’m not a SF member, never was). The childishness of some of the comments are breathtaking at times.
Here’s what Adams said in that Indo article –
“There are gangs and they are clearly ruthless, they’re mercenary, they’re greedy, they’re very, very, very dangerous indeed.”
Asked how Sinn Féin would protect witnesses and jurors if there was no such court, the Louth TD said schemes are in place in other jurisdictions to ensure safety.
“In Britain, across the European Union and the USA, they have witness protection programmes and they deal with criminality and they bring those that are accused and they are subject to due process,” Mr Adams told reporters
Here’s a report on the SCC which speaks to the dangers of subventing our natural criminal law and trial by jury –
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/should-we-keep-the-special-criminal-court-1046015-Aug2013/
In which the author states “http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/should-we-keep-the-special-criminal-court-1046015-Aug2013/”
WIth so much information available at the touch of a keypad, why are so many people so ill informed?
Because it’s an agenda thingy.
This was missing from original post – the author of the report says -
In a recent article on TheJournal.ie, Aaron McKenna suggested that the Special Criminal Court was necessary to protect witnesses from intimidation. However, witnesses are required to give evidence in the Special Criminal Court just as they are in every other court. The absence of a jury has no impact on the potential for witnesses to be intimidated. Indeed, the man who fired the bullet that killed Shane Geoghegan was convicted by an ordinary court.
Its prefect timing for SF!
Why is it?
It was done to damage S.F. in my opinion as they are mad at them over the Good Friday Agreement.
Good lord micheal delusional is all I can say
Many journalists and Gardaí don’t believe it now because they called themselves the CIRA, they should have called themselves the PIRA for their statement to be believed. Those who did it screwed it up trying to blame the wrong group.
CIRA , PIRA , TIRA
1..Our top crime reporters & conduits for Garda leaks have been telling us the shooting was carried out for a totally different reason & by totally different people.
2..Journalists are now coming forward & stating it was common knowledge beforehand that something was going to happen at the venue yet Garda claim they had no intelligence to suggest anything.
3..Why do I smell one giant pre general election rat here?
NOT good news for the election prospects of SF/IRA
Jorry will be an unhappy bunny
And these blokes have clearly shown that the IRA are alive and well – and armed….
I’d have thought it was the Labour Party and their latest Senator who would have been feeling the heat after this, since it was dissidents who claimed responsibility?
Gosh, hope he didn’t have a Glenageary accent
Why contact the BBC?
All of a sudden the CIRA is back in the news. And slap bang in the middle of an election. How convenient this is for the government.
There is nothing convenient in having murdering dirt bags roaming the streets shinners and there tinfoil hat theories
But, so where does the whole Kinahan / Hutch / Costa Crime gang thing figure in all this? Then there’s the Eastern European hitmen angle….now the CIRA??? Gonna have to get Jeremy Kyle on this case!
TBH this is not a surprise. These guys are just criminals who hire out their skills to others. I assume this was financed by another well know Dublin criminal and these guys were acting on his instructions for payment.
The day and age of the so-called romantic revolutionary is long dead and gone. All these guys slipped into outright criminality and gangster-ism decades ago.
On 1 December 1972, when two separate car bombs exploded in Eden Quay and Sackville Place, Dáil Éireann was debating a bill to amend the Offences Against the State Act which would enact stricter measures against the Provisional IRA and other paramilitary groups. As a result of the two bombings, which killed two men and wounded 131, the Dáil voted for the amendment, which introduced special emergency powers to combat the IRA. It is believed that the 26 November and 1 December bombings were executed to influence the outcome of the voting. Irish Supreme Court Justice Henry Barron commissioned an official inquiry into the bombings. The findings were published in a report in November 2004.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_and_1973_Dublin_bombings
Déjà vu?
Oh Lord!
I do think they chose the timing of it to ruin S.F. chance at the elections because they are still bitter over the Good Friday Agreement…
Get a job or a hobby. You have too much time on your hands.
Who says I haven’t???
You did. You might have a hobby but as you’ve stated here recently that your unemployed my comment stands. I assume your hobby is sharing conspiracies on the journal
Yes I have talked about the past on here and no, no conspiracies as I always supply a good solid link to nearly everything I state, if not 2 but several links…
I doubt that the BBC or RTE is into creating conspiracies?
No one gets specially targeted like that unless they have done something wrong
If they are caught, Labour can nominate them for the Seanad.
What’s the problem sure aren’t they just being good republicans ?
The government needs to crack down on all IRAs.
The timing of it was to attack S.F. chances in the election like I wrote earlier…
Nada !
parralel agenda here to derail sinn feins election campaign smart move by someone cant see it being the work of the cira but maybe they supplied the weapons or were hired to do it maybe either way they get a nice pay day and disrupt the shinners
Is there any evidence to back up the claim that these lads were wearing Garda ERU uniforms or is it that they were wearing IMITATION Garda ERU Uniforms? Or is that just lazy teprting? Big difference there, especially if it really was some CIRA folks involved.
If there is one thing that I hate, that is lazy teprting.
See, Mary Lou isn’t the only one misspelling things!
This is a wind up and bbc nordy fell for it.
On Joe Duffy sun crime correspondents said they were rang with same info but no codeword given. Means journal have not verified the facts.
Franny Fitzgerald said these “very mean men” and were “poopy heads” on her way to the convention centre for a now bi-monthly citizenship ceremony.
@Live Long,
Every time I turn on the TV, I see thousands of Third Worlders being sworn in.
Who do they think they are fooling?
Getting rid of the competition is what these animals are at.
Bunch of knackers
Regardless of which IRA did this and the fact that Sinn Fein wants rid of the special criminal court. Anyone who is considering voting for or transferring to, Sinn Fein, would you like yourself or any of your family to serve on a jury for these guys in a court case.
It’s a second special criminal court the state are now looking for – no jury court
Alongside Sinn Féin, human rights group the Irish Council for Civil Liberties and the UN Human Rights Committee have criticised the government over plans for a SECOND Special Criminal Court.
What good are special courts when people can drive a hour up the to the north and escape. It’s a free for all, and promising 15 special courts will make no difference. What we need to attack is their money and deal with money laundering. But who are laundering this money bankers,solicitors,accountants and businessmen who are above the law. We need to give CAB the resources that all crime organisation, foreign Mafia or local crimmials don’t see Ireland as a safe haven for their loot. But instead putting the lives of gardai on the line is seen as a better option. Crazy
Who says they are from across the boarder, as many are from Dublin… Cork etc etc…
We don’t know where the came from or where they went. We don’t even know if boxing has being hijacked and is being used for money laundering. What we do know is that the ones laundering the money are as guilty as the ones holding the guns.
Leartius I am going by what RTE is saying now as even the Gardaí don’t believe it now.
Sounds like a dirty tricks campaign, with the help of the British government.I won’t be voting SF, FG or Labour and FF. What matters is truth, these parties just don’t deal with truth.
Smear Campaigns have been used before, including by the British, up north.What they are afraid of is…SF won’t play ball with them. The whole of Ireland KNEW that there would be repercussions after the fatal shooting in Costa del Sol last year, in fact a boxing match, on South Circular road was earmarked as somewhere this repercussion could happen, since gangland figures would be attending. Nothing happened, they bid their time, but how the Justice Minister & the Garda did not even Think this might happen, beggers belief….they just didn’t care. I believe it was a gangland killing and most people believe that too.
Was there ever a doubt?
What has that got to do with the BBC or the North, it was in Dublin?
The statement was given to Vincent Kearney, a well-respected journalist and presumably someone they deem trustworthy.
Many journalists and Gardaí don’t believe it now because they called themselves the CIRA, they should have called themselves the PIRA for their statement to be believed.
Many journalists say it doesn’t make sense, see what the Gardaí says?
David McWilliams special correspondant on all things gangland please enlighten us.
I’m all for seeing Drug Dealers die but can it not be done in a manner to which innocent people could be caught in the middle.
Protectors of the people my hole they just want to drug deal them self
Fu(k the IRA
I’m guessing the cira where impressed by the military style precision of the attack so they claim responsibility wanting to look good.
have your say