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Voters want to scrap Seanad, give diaspora the vote and review Constitution

Ipsos MRBI has polled a number of issues that will be up for discussion at the constitutional convention which gets under way this weekend.

VOTERS BACK A full review of the Irish Constitution, legalising same-sex marriage, scrapping the Seanad, giving the Irish abroad the vote and reducing presidential terms according to a new poll.

The Ipsos MRBI poll in today’s Irish Times carries voters’ views on many of the issues that will be put before the constitutional convention when it meets for the first time this weekend.

There is broad backing for many of the measures it will discuss with same-sex marriage backed by 53 per cent of those polled with 30 per cent saying they would vote No in any referendum that would have to be held to provide for the measure.

Seventeen per cent have no opinion of the measure that is strongly backed by Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore.

In a boost for the government, most voters back abolition of the Seanad, 55 per cent to 22 per cent with 23 per cent having no opinion.

There is strong backing for giving Irish citizens who live abroad the right to vote in presidential elections with 68 per cent saying Yes to 17 per cent saying no, the remainder having no opinion.

Staying with the presidency, there is also backing for reducing the term of the office holder from seven years to five years.

Constitutional convention

The reference to the woman’s life within the home being removed from the Constitution has the backing of 41 per cent of those polled with 19 per cent saying it should not be removed, but a sizeable 40 per cent having no opinion.

The poll, which was conducted to coincide with the 50th anniversary of Ipsos MRBI, also finds that 42 per cent of people back a measure where referenda would be called if a petition received 10,000 signatures.

Thirty-two per cent say No to the idea while 26 per cent say they don’t know.

On the Constitution on whole 60 per cent of voters want the entire document reviewed rather than making incremental changes, as is current proposed, which has 36 per cent support.

The constitutional convention meets for the first time this weekend and is made up of 100 people, 66 of whom are members of the public chosen as a representative sample of the Irish public.

Thirty-three politicians on both sides of the border will also take part with the whole convention being chaired by Tom Arnold, the head of the charity Concern Worldwide.

The group will meet on eight weekends over the next years.

At last: Constitutional Convention to hold first meeting in December

Read: Sinn Féin and Greens call for lowering of voting age

Read: Tánaiste calls for referendum on same-sex marriage

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33 Comments
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    Mute John F
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:27 AM

    Only those 2yrs or less abroad should get to vote on General/Local Elections! You can’t expect to jump ship and continue to have say in the running of the place!

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    Mute Simon
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:33 AM

    Exactly!

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    Mute Damien Flinter
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    Nov 26th 2012, 9:01 AM

    Will we get a vote on the constitution of the Troika?

    We could use Raybo’s receipt-box or Bertie’s hat to collect the ballots.

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    Mute Mike Clinton
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:20 AM

    I don’t want the Seanad scrapped.

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    Mute dublinlad72
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:22 AM

    Why?

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    Mute Aodhan O Cuana
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:32 AM

    Reason the Seanad shouldn’t be scrapped; some of the Diaspora (graduates) can vote for 6 Seanad seats! Reform this constituency and introduce a Seanad Graduate & Diaspora constituency! Seanad, if reformed, gas the potential to transcend political parties and open up voices to children, LGBT communities, traveller community and other ethic groups, as well as Muslim groups!

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:58 AM

    Agree Mike, originally I thought great idea but after paying more attention to what goes on in the Dail and the total lack of accountability and debate I think we need to retain the Seanad. Yes it needs huge reform and the methods of how people are elected or appointed to it needs to be changed. But just having one chamber legislating and viewing the performance of those elected to the Dail makes me think we should keep the Seanad.

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    Mute Simon
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:32 AM

    I find it quite worrying that people are in favour of giving the diaspora a vote, whatever about the circumstances they had to leave under, at the end if the day why should someone who doesn’t live here have a say on how much tax we pay and get to vote on laws that won’t directly effect them?

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    Mute Rob Hunt
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:59 AM

    Because they might want to come back some day?

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    Mute Simon
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    Nov 26th 2012, 9:56 AM

    I understand, but I still don’t think you should have a say in the things that won’t effect you directly. You don’t have to pay the household charge, an increased USC or listen to Hogan and Reily whittering about cut backs and hospital closures, or feel the effects of them, so I don’t see why you should get a say in them. Just my opinion..

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    Mute Doc Benway
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    Nov 26th 2012, 2:22 PM

    What could be a more direct effect on a citizen by Government policies than to be forced to leave so as to be able to feed ones family. Should a citizen remain, to suffer poverty to retain a vote. Emigrants are the citizens most effected by disastrous Government policies.

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    Mute Paul
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    Nov 26th 2012, 4:31 PM

    They’re talking about giving citizens abroad a vote for presidential elections, not for the Dáil. Although, as it is the Dáil’s job to keep the government in check, but the government control the Dáil to such an extent that opposition motions slating government stupidity get amended by govt to say all’s rosy, and then voted through on their majority, how can parliament do its job? Time for national elections for Taoiseach I think.

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    Mute Ann Mcwilliams
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:54 AM

    As an Irish abroad for many years I do not think I or folk like me should have a vote in Ireland . I like to keep up with events yes ,but that is totally different to living there and knowing what it’s really like . Time is a funny thing when you leave no matter how long that era is what you think Ireland stays in , that holds true for everyone from anywhere .
    If anyone abroad like myself wants those rights we should move back not judge from afar .I put my oar in here but that’s just discussion . Definitely not a vote .

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    Mute Denise Friary
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:48 AM

    The sooner they scrap that Senate the beter they are a bunch of unelected free loaders.

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    Mute Arbitrasure
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:27 AM

    I don’t want to give the diaspora a vote.

    However I do want all Irish globally to pay tax in Ireland, regardless of where they live, just like the US imposes upon its citizens.

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    Mute Leigh Power
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:37 AM

    If they pay tax they have a right to a vote.

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    Mute Aodhan O Cuana
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:40 AM

    You will find the majority of the Irish Diaspora, this time round are like my own father’s generation; working abroad to pay mortgages and keep families a float here! So when thinking about the Diaspora; try to be a bit more measured in your views! In fact we can, outside of the EU, view the Diaspora as one of our biggest bail out mechanisms when it comes to jobs (creating them), financing (remittances sent home week in-week out), tourism (ancestry searching, Eco-tourism & golf) and so forth! So why not open voting; it can do no worse than Franco-German coalition we the natives voted for!

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    Mute Arbitrasure
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:43 AM

    Sure, they can vote if they have an Irish passport and their tax affairs are in order.

    Even with some very basic assumptions, this would bring in billions of Euro annually.

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    Mute Arbitrasure
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    Nov 26th 2012, 11:55 AM

    Clearly the number of red thumbs indicates how many Journal readers are living overseas!
    Come on, you can’t just sit in your low tax locale and call yourself Irish, pay for the privilege of the passport!

    If you are already paying an equivalent amount of Income Tax in a tax treaty country, then you’ve nothing to worry about.

    I see nothing wrong with the idea of Irish passport holders living abroad being taxed in the same way as Americans living abroad are taxed by the IRS.

    It would help the big whale multi-millionaire Irish, and a few billionaires, with intricate tax avoidance structures to keep their money away from the Revenue Commissioners, to put more back into the country.

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    Mute Enda Curtin
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    Nov 26th 2012, 4:38 PM

    Oh really, Leigh? So just because I’m unemployed I don’t have the right to vote – even if it’s a case where I want to work?

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    Mute Colm OConnor
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    Nov 26th 2012, 6:13 PM

    Not necessarily Leigh. Those who work for the government abroad and pay tax in Ireland do not have a vote.

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    Mute Stephen Maher
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    Nov 26th 2012, 8:09 AM

    They’ll scrap the Seanad, but that’ll be that.

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    Mute Chris Galligan
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    Nov 26th 2012, 9:28 AM

    Like everything Irish its jobs for the Boys/Girls. We have no need for a Seanad its a waste of money and time. It could be replaced by an oversight committe(s) to ensure that the Oireachtas and the Departmental heads and Ministers are accountable for the decisions they make.

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    Mute Craig Magee
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    Nov 26th 2012, 9:33 AM

    so people are driven out if there country because of gready gits in government, now in order to get them out of power they must pay tax from abroad in return for a vote.. ????

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    Mute Jim Walsh
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    Nov 26th 2012, 11:13 AM

    Reasonable suggestion if you ask me. Name me one club or society that would allow somebody who doesn’t pay some form of fee to vote in how that group would be run? This is just a scaling upwards of that analogy.

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    Mute James Quirke
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    Nov 26th 2012, 12:02 PM

    Why should the right to vote be conditional on anything other than citizenship, all these people saying you should have to pay tax and live in the country seem rather selfish to me…next we’ll be going back to the days when you had to own property and be a man over the age of 25, For gods sake voting is a right not a privilege one has to earn it is a core principle of democracy, with citizenship comes the right to vote for all. If we start making it conditional why not have a test to see if you know enough about politics to earn the right to vote ie let’s exclude the ignorant, next make it contingent upon income and exclude the poor because they don’t pay enough tax maybe. Voting rights should be for all citizens no matter who or where they are unless the people themselves vote to change that.

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    Mute George L Rockwell
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    Nov 26th 2012, 1:24 PM

    Would you agree that a drug addicted, murderous sociopath locked up in jail should have an equal say in what way the country is run just because he’s a citizen as say a law abiding citizen who worked hard his whole life? Certain people should have their citizenship taken away from them.

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    Mute James Quirke
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    Nov 27th 2012, 10:34 AM

    @ George. Well I certainly wouldn’t be as quick and entusiastic about taking people’s right to vote away from them as some people seem to be. In the case of your example citizenship rights would have to be taken away by a court of law but his human rights would have to be protected, even in this kind of extreme case I wouldn’t be so quick to take the step of removing someone’s vote, it sets a dangerous presedent in that those who society labels as crazy don’t get to vote….suddenly anyone who thinks even just a little outside of he norm could be in trouble and at that stage you have repression of freedom….for example the looney left is one such label I’ve heard thrown about!

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    Mute Pádraig McHugh
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    Nov 27th 2012, 10:52 AM

    So you’re saying that a people, living outside the country may vote on what happens to people inside the country? That doesn’t sound democratic at all. It’s not ‘selfish’ to expect only those living here and paying tax are allowed to vote, it’s sensible.

    Why should someone who hasn’t lived in Ireland for years vote on what happens in Ireland and only effects me; not them at all. They could vote for whatever they wanted because they would be living in another country. What madness.

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    Mute James Quirke
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    Nov 27th 2012, 4:44 PM

    @ Padrigh, yes that’s what I’m saying. Just because you leave a place doesn’t mean you give up being interested in or having a stake in what happens their and you may wish to return their one day when conditions are favourable. Giving the disaspora a vote allows them to have a say in the shaping of a country they hope to return to. Insisting as you do that what happens in Ireland ‘only effects me’ is exactly the type of selfish mindset I’m talking about.
    Another point I’ll make in favour of extending voting rights to those Irish living abroad is to suppose I live here say 50% of the time but had to travel for work, when the election is on I happen to be abroad but in Ireland I can’t vote even though I live here and pay my taxes here, other countries at least have ways of allowing for this and also allow the diaspora to vote for a few years after they’ve left.

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    Mute Colm OConnor
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    Nov 26th 2012, 7:22 PM

    Don’t agree George. The principle of one person one vote is paramount in my opinion. Next one could argue that people with criminal records couldn’t vote either like in Florida.

    The French allow all citizens to vote. I think the ones abroad elect specific seats in the parliament. That said, does anyone know how many passport holders are outside the country? I think it might be as high as a million, due to emigration as far back as the 50s. That’s a lot of people who could change a government. Still maybe only recent emigrants could vote?

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    Mute Jim Walsh
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    Nov 26th 2012, 11:17 AM

    While there seems to be a majority in favour of a completely new Constitution according to this poll can you imagine the nightmare it would be trying to get a fully new document passed in a referendum? I would go as far as to say that it would be impossible.

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