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PROTEST GROUPS FROM the US city of Detroit and from austerity-hit Greece are travelling to Dublin for the next big water protest in a month’s time.
The Right2Water campaign is planning another mass rally outside the Dáil on 10 December.
It follows their two large-scale ‘days of action’ in recent weeks, each of which were attended by over 100,000 people.
The Detroit Water Brigade has been mounting an ongoing campaign of protest against plans by the Michigan city to turn off the taps of residents who don’t pay their water bills.
United Nations human rights officials called for city bosses to restore water services last month, after conducting a fact-finding mission.
In a statement issued after a three-day mission to Detroit, the UN representatives said the severance of water supplies to 27,000 homes over unpaid bills violated human rights.
Detroit, which became the largest US city to ever file for bankruptcy protection in July last year, began disconnecting water services earlier this year for all households that have not paid bills for two months.
Here at home, Environment Minister Alan Kelly said last week householders will not have their water supply cut off or reduced if they don’t pay the water charges.
Kelly said he wanted to address concerns that “people may have about their water pressure being reduced to a trickle for non-payment”.
“I want to emphasise that I do not want to see this happening under any circumstances.”
The Government has said it will make a definitive statement next week on water charges, and the amount the average family can expect to pay.
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Cutting off your water if you can’t pay is a terrible act. We’ve a country full of elderly who are afraid to turn on their heat during the icy months and now they have this to water about. I do NOT believe that a private company won’t reduce your water pressure or worse cut you off.
They’ve said that that will not happen. Nor will they lower the pressure.
Labour also said labours way of Frankfurts way. Kenny said its immoral to tax a family home
How come they have water charges in Detroit? Do they not realise that it’s a human right for people who live in urban areas to have free mains water and sewage?
Maybe they don’t already pay for it in their taxes. You know, like we do?
Would that be the people who live in rural areas who have no access to mains water or sewage who are paying for it in their taxes as well yeah?
What about people we no kids paying tax for children’s allowance ? What about people with older cars paying more tax ?
They will say anything, Jason. Saying something doesn’t mean it’s true, and bitter experience has shown that with this government it very often isn’t. This is the saddest thing about all this…our society is increasingly being run on lies and deceit, and our trust in the government, the guards, etc is being eroded. Any ‘economic’ recovery is going to be pointless if society is bolloxed in the process.
To many people Irish Water and the protest is a sort of line in the sand regarding the way the country is going. It doesn’t have to be like this. We’ve had no food shortage, no natural disaster, no epidemic, no social upheaval…but we’re in an international ‘crisis’ caused by the very people who are now twisting society to their own ends and getting richer and more powerful while the rest of us are expected to struggle along supporting them. And this is being done through lies and fear (and a financial system based on ‘money’ which mostly is literally nothing more than data on banks’ computers).
People are starting to realize this and are saying no.
The only referendum we need is a general election, this water tax scam will be top of the agenda on polling day, take your revenge then on this joke of a government, inflict massive damage on Fine Gael and Labour, we can teach these shysters a lesson that will never be forgotten!
Jason they lie constantly. Only a fool would still trust them.
Denito where have you been hiding all this time, WE ALREADY PAY THROUGH OUR CAR TAX AND VAT WHICH WAS AMENDED IN 1996 TO COVER THE WATER CHARGES AT THE TIME did you get that, there is and never was such a thing as free mains water in Ireland !!!!!!!!!
Moselle I think he was under the stairs in fghq
*Noelle
Noelle I haven’t been hiding anywhere, I have been paying those taxes that you mention and not receiving any of the free water and sewage services that urban dwellers have. Thankfully this inequitable situation is now about to end as we start charging for mains water like every other developed country.
As for the point about children’s allowance: that doesn’t stack up. All children in the country are eligible for that payment no matter where they live. The same can be said for the other social welfare payments as well as health services and education. Free water and sewage, however, has only ever been available to those living in built-up areas.
I count as one of the elderly, on a standard state pension. I’m not afraid to turn on my heat, well insulated house. I’m not afraid to pay for clean water. In fact, if the water comes out clean, the sewage is cleaned up, & the leakages repaired I will pay. I already limit my use of water having lived in countries where paying for water is standard. However I do want the company to be owned by Ireland.inc, not like the Eircom fiasco, bought by an Irish ‘hero’ & stripped of all it’s assets for his benefit. By the way, I do love Karma Sir Anthony.
dento , i live in a rural area, i have a septic tank (which costs about 500 euro a time to empty and clean thanks to the previous government and the ‘green party introducing ‘new ‘rules) i do not have a public water supply either , but dont you see that you will STILL be paying for your water the way you are now and ON TOP of that you will have irish water bills , even if its only for ‘waste water’ ! and if your system is anything like mine you have a ‘soak away’ which is not conected to the public waste water system , but you will still have to pay at least this portion of the bill . ! NO ONE is completely exempt from these ‘charges’ and in a few years time irish water (if it still exists) will be sold off and floated on the stock markets, but before this happens the government will introduce a bill taking ALL sources of water ,including wells and water schemes under the control of irish water ,
there is only ONE way to stop this happening and that is to have irish water abolished and the constitution amended to ensure that the public water supply in ireland can NEVER be sold in part or as a whole entity. people should be standing together on this issue, because it is the first chance we have to end this governments bully boy tactics and croyism , do you think if the government somehow manage to ‘win’ this battle with the public that it will stop at irish water? next up will be the electricity, the gas (already partly privitised) the roads, the heating fuel (that will go to denis o’briens topaz) . dont be fooled by all this bull about non privitisation, the E.U. want all its member countries signed up to the transatlantic trade and investment program or T.TI.P. this would allow multi national business interests , investment (hedge) funds and global corporations to take over and control ALL our natural resources, water ,gas, oil, solid fuels etc, there would be NO RIGHT of government to stop them from charging what they want (no regulatory body ) and hiking up prices at will. THAT is what this is leading too, and enda and his cohorts are behind it all the way !
Eric you are 100% wrong there. Irish Water has no responsibility for private septic tanks and we pay nothing to Irish Water for them.
Denito…his point is that we eventually will if we don’t stop them now.
Dont believe for one second you DINOTO give a toss what rural ppl have to pay in their taxes
Well Tom, if that is his point then it has no basis because Irish Water has no responsibility for anything to do with drainage or any environmental issues like watercourse pollution.
There is no more basis for saying that Irish Water will charge you for your septic tank than there is for saying that the ESB will charge you for any solar electricity that you might use.
Elizabeth, I wonder why you don’t think that I give a toss what rural people pay in taxes. I am such a rural person living across the road from the house where I grew up and I can assure you that I am very concerned about taxes paid by rural people such as myself.
Well said Tom. I think your comments sum up the thoughts of many.
Unity will beat this unfair tax.
Interesting analysis here: seems that the nett cost of abolishing Irish Water is 350 million (and getting smaller each week) not the 800 million widely disseminated by the liars in Leinster House.
http://notesonthefront.typepad.com/politicaleconomy/2014/11/why-the-government-is-running-away-from-providing-answers.html
Nope it’s 800 million
How?
“I want to emphasise that I do not want to see this happening under any circumstances.”
Won’t really matter what he wants when it becomes privatised, by which time the only thing he’ll have a say in, is what colour socks and jocks he’s gonna wear that day.
The bottom line will be, “Well I did say that…..but it’s out of our hands now, it’s a private company ask the regulator, I’m very sorry….blah blah.
I feel this government is a regulator for some people in IRELAND and the Germans??????
Germany is not the problem, they do not own the ECB, IMF or the banking system of the west that controls the direction of EU policy especially during financial recession. That title goes to banks like Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and practically autonomous districts like the City of London financial area which collectively form the banking Euro-American establishment. These banking communities in have their own fraternities and institutions like the Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland, it is they who formulate their own agendas advising/directing the EU & it’s ECB on policy. They managed to get Germany to be guarantor for the bank bailouts, thus if those in debt default, it was Germany whose head was on the chopping block, not the bondholders or these international banks, you cannot fault them for wanting loans paid back when the financial gun was at their head. To blame Germany is to take the focus off the banks and bondholders behind the austerity & bailouts, which is why they made sure Germany was guarantor, everyone would vent their anger on Germany, letting the international banks, like Goldman Sachs off the hook.
German Economist:
Hans Werner Sinn: Why don’t you let it default? Default is the best way to solve such a problem. It doesn’t mean the bank comes to an end; it just means that the creditors have to forgive some of the debt and this is quite natural. They made the investment decision.
PK: The ECB will allow us to do this?
HWS: I don’t know what the ECB will say, but these economists whom you cite from Germany said that that should be done. And actually it was not just 270, it was a total of 480 professional economists in Germany who said it is much better to forgive the debt and ask those people who have miscalculated their chances to reduce their claims against the banks.
http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2013/0205/3482023-prof-hans-werner-sinn-discusses-the-irish-economy/
OK.OK. BUT why was it the Germans are put as guarantor and what did they get out of it ? We know most of the German peoples pensions were in IRISH banks,( the bondholders ) Looks like we have looked after all the big boys not just in the EEC but some of the big banks as you have just said.Good to see people up things like this for all of us to see and understand more of the way the world works while we pay for it!
Germany had the financial base to be volunteered as such. The EU officials who rule over you, will do anything to ensure the project of EU collectivism does not fail. Ireland actually had/has the trump card, we can default and the EU would bow down to us – anything to keep the EU together. The instability in Ireland, Greece, Spain & Portugal meant real possibility of default & uncoupling ourselves from the Euro strait jacket, that in turn may have led to the unravelling of the Euro – the beginning of the end of their empire dream. The ex-maoist Manuel Barrosso has bullied govt.s that did not live up to his desire for collectivist EU empire. Merkel an ex-communist, has this collectivist dream, she acquiesced to the unelected power cabaal in the EU commission being directed by the ECB (many ex-Goldman Sachs employees). You will find the international bankers whose main residences are on Wall St and the British financial district named, The City of London, have a historic/cultural hate toward Germany because of Germany’s attempts during the 1920′s/30′s to provide an alternative to the international banker debt slavery controlling us today, thus it was also symbolic and personal for the main bondholders & bankers like Goldman Sachs & Rothschilds to chain Europe up in debt getting their old adversary Germany to take the blame. Goldman Sachs were fundamentally responsible for the crash of 2008, with its former Chairperson and CEO, Henry ‘Hank’ Paulson, just installed as US Treasury Secretary who started the bank bailout policy, with massive benefit to Goldman Sachs at the end of the Bush era. Goldman Sachs were also directly involved in the collapse, that started the ‘euro panic’ that engulfed Ireland. Of course our own Peter Sutherland Goldman Sachs chairman in Europe, insisted we pay up. Incredibly our govt. paid GS snake to advise us financially:
The vampire squid, Goldman Sachs, selected by NAMA to advise on loan sales
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/central-bank-paid-30m-to-consultants-last-year-26820988.html
To my learned friend , hope to here or see more of you on THEJOURNAL.IE ( information is the key )
Looking forward to meeting the people from Detroit & Greece on the 10th.
Bring your whistles air horns pots and pans let’s make some noise make them listen. Not one cent
Rent a crowd
More megaphones needed at this one.
Rent a troll
I think that it’s worth pointing out what Detroit and Greece have in common: an inability to control their public finances without parallel among their peers.
I doubt that anyone from either the city that last year triggered the largest municipal bankruptcy in US history or the country that might still need a third bailout has much of value to tell us.
FG doing nothing for citizens. They are puppets of big corporations and Denis O Brien. The farmers getting screwed by meat producers and Diagio. Quangos all protected. IW set up for privatization to party sponsor DOB. Adolf Kenny is a small rectangular moustache away from a dictator. Trying to get rid of the Seanad was his idea of reform. Nultygate shows his distain for proper procedure. Get em out.
2011: We voted out a government who sent us to penury, from which we were told we would be stuck in for two to three generations. Unemployment 17.3%
2014: Ireland, the fastest growing economy in Europe. Unemployment 11% and falling.
Your stupid comparisons of a majority elected Prime Minister to a dictator who committed genocide on close to 50 million people shows your ignorance of history.
In 18 months you will have your chance to decide, be thankful you have that chance, in our democratic country.
Unemployment falling? Haha. After 200,000 IRISH emigrated since 2008 and continue to do so at a rate of 12,000 per week. Also excluding the 50,000+ on govt schemes. AND STILL at 11%. Because there has been no job creation, genius. Fastest growing economy? Hahaha. When you include as the govt did in 2014 “estimates” of the black economy along with internal multinational business dealings you can inflate the GDP by a few handy billion, without a brass cent changing in real terms. You’re obviously stoned on Hopium or a FG tout. Cf. Hopium for the Masses in The Village. More Kool Aid, anyone?
John, I think I’ll just ignore your comments from now on – we’ll agree to disagree. You’re obviously oblivious to what is actually going on. You talk about blah blah blah… unemployment figures going down… blah blah blah… Have you any idea how many children are deemed to be in poverty in this country? Have you any idea of the number of ‘working poor’ in this country? If you don’t, go find it out. I think you need a serious reality check.
If you can, be there on the 10th and help put an end to this Irish Gravy rip Off.
Gravy charges? That’s a load of oxo
Looking forward to the 10th the government isn’t listening so hopefully this protest will uncover there ears.
Booked an annual leave day off work for the 10th. .everyone that can, needs to be there for a peaceful and loud demonstration. I don’t like the way the government are trying to deflect from the real March with “sinister fridges”
Sinister Fridges??? Are they planning to keep everyone on ice?
Morning Ireland presently discussing the breaking news that insurance companies are capping their liability for burst pipes and lost metered water to 1000 Euros.!
An unattended burst pipe could quickly run up a bill of thousands of Euros for the householder.
Alan Kelly says he doesn’t want to see water cut off under any circumstances. That’s so reassuring given that he’ll not have any power in govt as Labour are doomed come the next GE. Effectuvely if this govt get their way then water cut off will be the future of Irish Water Inc. Dec 10th – make it your business to be there for a massive peaceful protest.
So SF will cut off the water or drop the water pressure then?
On Dec.10th the civilised world will be marching to push for human rights worldwide.
Some of the things they will march for:
The rights of females, including the right not to be, raped, sold into prostitution, genitally mutilated, treated as a second class citizen.
The rights of people not to be, victims of genocide, racially abused, made to travel to avoid wars, paid below the poverty line.
The rights of children not to be, abused physically sexually or mentally, forced to fight in wars, un-educated.
In Ireland we will be marching to keep abusing the supply of clean water, a finite resource, with no repercussions for wastage
Finite resource….. What, are we going to wake up one day and the clouds will be gone ????
John, I think your comments are totally disrepectful to all human rights issues. Whats the purpose of your comments? Are you trying to compare human rights? Perhaps prioritize them? Perhaps number them depending on the level of hurt, pain or suffering? Disgraceful – disgusting…
Your other comment was sound common sense for me. No need to go off topic .
Stand for nothing and you fall for anything. It’s a slippery slope when it seems the government are intent on splittting society and serving big money rather than the people who elected them.
Just remember all the little sweetener’s this government give you to sign up to Irish Water can be removed with a stroke of a pen in any budget.
I see some poor jobsbridge sap is on red thumbing this morning – Enda & co are very worried indeed. Super.
Is there buses being organised to bring people to Dublin ?
What part of the country are you coming from Pete? I’m sure the Right2Water will be organising buses from major towns across Ireland.
Cork.
Need to start letting people know so we can book time off work.
There are buses leaving Cork at 9 in the morning from Patricks Quay, Cork.
You’ve to book in advance. Phone number and details here.
https://www.facebook.com/Right2WaterCork?fref=ts
Why would anyone red thumb that? Unless of course you hate Cork or work in FG HQ.
Thanks bob
YW Pete. Spread the word.
They organized them last time from cork Pete so id say there be no problem doin it again
Hope so
Well if they tried to ban protesting, we would just have to protest against it!
Great piece written in the Irish independent today by Donna hartnett (letters to the editor) 100% hit the nail on the head.well done Donna,my family will come first before Irish water
Now we have Phil Hogan in Europe a man at odds with the concept of human rights, now try telling me that the eu is not turning into being a dictatorial bully. The place is run by ex communists and neo conservatives.
A bit of a boost for tourism.
Tree huggers are not known for spending their social welfare, apart from Ryanair the Irish economy will not benefit much in fairness.
Heart-warming to see that impoverished citizens of Detroit and Greece will be flying over to Ireland to express solidarity with those who are also desperately struggling with their bills.
Aren’t the majority of working class in Detroit African American? Will these be classed as “dark forces” at the protest?
Damian, not everyone protesting has trouble paying their bills. Its certainly one of the key reasons but I believe Irish people are waking up to the real agenda of this corrupt and deceitful government.
Under the Aarus Convention we have a right to protest.
If the Vincent Brown Show is anything to go by, Labour backbenchers will be jumping ship very soon, who knows we could be “splashing” out on a few toys for our kids on the 10 of Dec. With any luck, if not I will see you all there.
Luckily enough for all these moaners there’s a simple solution… Pay your bills, like everyone else.
Yawn
That’s the problem Drew, we have already paid for our water, the government want us to pay twice, This government will suffer a massive defeat at the next general election and this water tax scam and Irish water will be gone!
The protest would gain a huge amount of respect if they campaigned for a 5% reduction in motor tax and a 2% reduction in VAT – reversing the FF stroke of 1997.
There is more respect to be had by abolishing IW FG and labour
The Lone Hurler, i honestly think the protesters have gained more respect for themselves never mind anyone else. … Anyway they don’t need to gain the respect from anyone else. They’re taking a stand against a government drowning in corruption, deceit, lies and cronyism. For that, they have my admiration and respect :-)
THIS is the WILFULL TREASON by govt. They are all singing dumb. ALL of the TD’s. ASK them about this.
This is where Domestic water in Ireland gets derogation from charges because we already pay
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32000L0060
How do we know that these people aren’t going to provocateur and cause mayhem which will lead to a crackdown and a rushed in law banning protests. I would be weary of any outside help as it could turn into a problem, reaction, solution type scenario….. Yes governments are that manipulative.
There will be no law banning protests in Ireland. It’s impossible.
Do continue Isaac !
Spain thought the same way, now they have the new citizen safety law, on the spot fines for protesters who cover their head or face, film police and astronomical fines for the organisers. The goverment have also just spent a billion euros on kitting out the riot squads with a shiny new water cannon, shields, batons and rubber bullets.
threat of a crackdown on protest is a poor excuse not to protest.
the police/citizen ratio in both Spain and wherever there’s been a similar crackdown is way more telling than here on our island, where every single Garda/Army member has a mother/brother/sister/wife who knows those that he/she will presumably be beating with sticks. I don’t think it can happen here, thankfully. we’re a tightly knit community in comparison to major cities in EU/US.
Is your glass half full this morning Glen?
It’s in our constitution they would have to hold a referendum. I can’t see many voting for that. Can you?
Glen – If they enact a law banning protests, well then, we will just have to PROTEST against it!
less than 14,000 Gardai in the whole of Ireland – against a MASSIVE demonstration of a couple of hundred thousand people if they tried that trick.
Short of calling out the army, their is really not a lot the government could do about it.
The government are starting to poka a very angry bear with a stick – Be careful about poking angry bears…..
It is against our Constitution to even attempt to cut a water supply!
Any buses leaving from donegal for this protest
There is a Public Meeting on the Water Charges, organised by Right2WaterIreland. Speakers: Cllrs John Lyons & Ciaran O’Moore. Tomorrow night at Le Cheile Community Centre & Youth Centre, Collins Avenue, Donnycarney.
Maybe you could get in contact here……
https://www.facebook.com/events/307619729427224/?fref=ts
It is against our Constitution to even attempt to cut a water supply! How many times must this be stressed? They won’t turn it down because it would be farcical them running all over the place and either way, it is easily turned back up!
The whole thing is ridiculous.
It’s not against the constitution it’s just highly impractical and ineffective as it’s easily reversed.
I think it says something about the protests when it is people of Detroit (largest US city to file bankruptcy) and Greece (Europe’s biggest economic screw-up) are the ones supporting it. Just an observation.
Idiotic comment. Just an observation.
What in your opinion makes it idiotic?
Stuart – do you really think it was “the people” of Detroit who fu€ked things up and then filed for bankruptcy? Could it have been those in charge instead, perhaps? Just like in Greece?
Are “the people” of this country responsible for the current economic situation too? You must think we are, if you stand by your comment.
Good man Stuart. It’s always the people with very little money, and ultimately no power to make big decisions, that feck things up isn’t it.
It’s not impossible to involve citizens in government decision making and processes.
poor auld stuart, i bet you’re worried also in case Martin Luther King & E.T. turn up….
I’m sorry, I honestly don’t understand what your trying to say with your comment.. Feel like I’m too young to get the reference or just missing something
As I said, just an observation. If you choose to take it in a negative or positive way that is up to you. To your question, my answer is no, of course I don’t blame the “people” as you put it. I am one of the “people” and rarely put blame on myself if I can help it. I just thought it was an interesting observation. If you inferred that from my comment, I apologise, I never meant to imply it.
Well done Alan, I’ve honestly got to commend you on the comment, I enjoy reading well written sarcasm. However if your trying to say that’s what I’m saying, your wrong. I didn’t really have anything to say, I just found this “observation” interesting. Take it how you will. People always presume people are attacking their point of view on journal…
I really don’t want to get drawn into tit for tat comments but really Ian? I commented what I found to be an interesting fact on the article in question (perhaps it was idiotic, who am I to say) but your comment was in my opinion a whole new level of idiotic(or rather just immature).
ANY of these people who travel from either Detroit OR Greece need a place to stay while they’re here?
I would feel privileged to have one of them stay in my home.
Fecking Greeks coming over here, taking our jobs and women! they invented gayness!
United we stand!!
This Government is trying to sell us our own water already paid for in VAT and TAX this private company does not own the waters of Ireland we the people own it, The majority of people on the Island of Ireland does not want water privatised. While everyone know Fina Failed caused the mess by bailing out defunct banks Enda Kenny FG and Labour have caused untold misery with years of Austerity Cut to Social Welfare, Hikes in taxes mass emigration, Cuts to services like hospitals, cuts to communities, its is ordinary families paying for these decisions while the rich and big business pay nothing. Ordinary families are being made homeless Great achievements from FG each and every one of them should be ashamed of the way they have supported the decimation of the Irish people. The protesters want Irish Water ABOLISHED its not just about Irish Water its about the way they have completely ignored the needs of their own people who elected them to office. More interest is shown to EU and Merkels needs no wonder people are angry.
THIS is the WILFULL TREASON by govt. They are all singing dumb. ALL of the TD’s. ASK them about this.
This is where Domestic water in Ireland gets derogation from charges because we already pay
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32000L0060
have your say