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IT STARTED OFF fairly innocuously, with a question about leading CEOs leaving his business advisory council.
From there, US President Donald Trump had a small pop at Ireland, spoke of his love of facts and said his chief strategist Steve Bannon is “not a racist”.
With Charlottesville the main topic of conversation, Trump again reverted to the line of denouncing the violence on both sides last weekend.
He also claimed that bringing in more jobs would improve race relations in the US.
Here are some of the key moments from last night’s press conference:
"I had to see the facts" before making a statement on #Charlottesville explains @POTUS Donald Trump pic.twitter.com/JE75lohJht
— Sky News (@SkyNews) August 15, 2017
One of the first questions that Trump fielded was “why did you wait so long to put that last statement out?” in reference to his eventual condemnation of hate groups.
He repeated three times “I didn’t wait long”, but gave a more detailed response when the reporter put it to him that it was “at least 48 hours”.
This detailed response was focused primarily on the issue of facts.
“The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement,” he said. “But you don’t make statements that direct unless you know the fact. It takes a little while to get the facts.
Frankly, people still don’t know all of the facts. It was very important — excuse me, excuse me. It was very important to me to get the facts out and correctly, because if I would have made a fast statement — and the first statement was made without knowing much other than what we were seeing. The second statement was made with knowledge, with great knowledge.
The President’s chief strategist Steve Bannon was editor of Breitbart News, a right-wing website that acts as a megaphone for Trump, and is believed to have had a major influence on Trump’s nationalist agenda.
While he called Bannon a “good man” and “not a racist”, the President also sought to downplay his influence while hinting at the doubts surrounding his future as White House chief strategist.
Trump said: “Look, I like Mr Bannon. He’s a friend of mine but Mr Bannon came on very late you know that. I went through 17 senators, governors and I won all the primaries.
He is not a racist, I can tell you that. He’s a good person, he actually gets a very unfair press in that regard. But we’ll see what happens with Mr Bannon, but he’s a good person and I think the press treats him frankly very unfairly.
RT TFTCS "RT BloombergTV "Donald Trump returns to blaming "both sides" for the deadly violence in Charlottesvi… pic.twitter.com/BN8HJCNnqo""
— BullFan2016 (@BullFan2016) August 16, 2017
In the wake of the violence in Charlottesville that left one woman dead, and many more injured, Trump initially came out and said he denounced violence on all sides.
As he said above, Trump said he waited for the “facts” before making a further statement where he said neo-Nazis and the KKK were “repugnant”.
Yesterday, however, he doubled-down on his original line and said there was violence and blame on both sides.
He said: “Well, I do think there’s blame. Yes. I do think there’s blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there’s blame on both sides and I have no doubt about it and you don’t have any doubt about it either.
You have some very bad people in that group [neo-Nazis], but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.
The alt-right is now a well-known term in political discourse, referring to ideologies such as those put forth on Breitbart News, and is closely tied to ideas around white nationalism and right-wing politics in the US.
The alt-right was used as an umbrella term by some to describe the KKK members and neo-Nazis that protested at the weekend.
Trump challenged reporters to define what the alt-right is at yesterday’s press conference, when one put it to the President that Senator John McCain had pinned the blame for the Charlottesville violence on this group.
He then switched the question to talk about the alt-left.
Trump said: “Excuse me, what about the alt-left that came charging at the, as you say, the alt-right. Do they have any semblance of guilt?
Let me ask you this. What about the fact they came charging — that they came charging, with clubs in their hands, swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do… You had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now.
So what exactly is the alt-left?
This article in the Washington Post highlights that the term has been used by some on the right to describe anti-Trump protesters and Black Lives Matter demonstrators.
The alt-left has been cited by commentators on Fox News in reference to violent protests that have taken place in recent months, such as at the University of California at Berkeley over a planned appearance by Milo Yiannopoulos.
In one section, Trump suggested that bringing in more jobs to the US would help to ease racial tensions.
He was asked if he was concerned about race relations in the US, and his opinion was sought on whether it had gotten better or worse since he took office.
Trump said: “I think they have gotten better. Or the same… I believe that the fact that I brought in, it will be soon, millions of jobs… I think that’s going to have a tremendous positive impact on race relations.
I think that’s going to have a huge, positive impact on race relations. You know why? It’s jobs. What people want now, they want jobs. They want great jobs with good pay and, when they have that, you watch how race relations will be.
In the very first question Trump was asked, about CEOs leaving his manufacturing council, he singled out Ireland.
Saying that wants companies to set up operations in the US, instead of elsewhere, Ireland was the only country he specifically mentioned.
He said: “Now, I have to tell you, some of the folks that will leave, they are leaving out of embarrassment because they make their products outside and I’ve been lecturing them, including the gentleman that you’re referring to, about you have to bring it back to this country.
You can’t do it necessarily in Ireland and all of these other places. You have to bring this work back to this country. That’s what I want.
In one of the more bizarre asides in the press conference, Trump told reporters that he owns a house in Charlottesville and that it had one of the largest wineries in the US.
He said: “I own a house in Charlottesville. Does anyone know I own a house in Charlottesville?
I mean, I know a lot about Charlottesville. Charlottesville is a great place that’s been very badly hurt over the last couple of days. I own actually one of the largest wineries in the United States that’s in Charlottesville.
In actual fact, he doesn’t own the winery.
On the website’s legal section, it says: “Trump Winery is a registered trade name of Eric Trump Wine Manufacturing LLC, which is not owned, managed or affiliated with Donald J. Trump, The Trump Organization or any of their affiliates.”
Trump had previously claimed that it was the biggest winery on the US east coast, but this has been shown to be incorrect.
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How is this guy suitable to be President of this great Country ????
@Tony Hartigan: He has isn’t.
@Tony Hartigan:
He isn’t.
@Tony Hartigan: People looked at the candidates, weighed them up and chose President Trump. That is how he became president of the USA and will get a second term. People will have a chance to vote him out in a few years if they so wish.
@Avina Laaf:
Although he does have a point that many far-left ‘anti-fascists’ seem to have no problem engaging in violence themselves.
@Tony Hartigan:
Is he not right in saying that there is blame on both sides and that the US would be better if they repatriated jobs?
@Avina Laaf: Agreed.
@Tony Hartigan: because he won the election,and when did it become a great country.
@Danny foley: “will get a second term” — it’s bye bye to second term
@Danny foley: Second term? Good one, he needs to worry about finishing his first term before he can even contemplate that now….
@Avina Laaf:
The ‘anti-fascists’ in the 1930s and 40s engaged in violence too. Surely you are not suggesting some moral equivalence between the aims and objectives of the Axis powers with those of the Allies?
@Francis Mc Carthy: maybe so. But like all US elections there is a small number of swing states. The south would elect any gobdaw red and the NE any gobdaw blue. Florida, NC. Iowa and Winscionin I think changed colour last time. It’s a fine line between winning and losing with their electoral college system
@Francis Mc Carthy: the way things are going, he’ll definitely get a second term. Who’s going to run against him?
@Dave Murray: If he gets people working he will get elected and that is his plan, that is his job.
@Nick Allen:
Careful now Nick. That comment is a bit too sensible
@lavbeer: There was just 70,000 + votes that got this dangerous conman into power..If the people get off their (I) in some of those states that you mentioned -then hopefully the likes of Trump will never get power ever again..And, you must also remember that millions of people voted for him because of ‘healthcare..how will he be able to debate that one…cannot blame democrats for that one…
@Danny foley: His job is to run the country,not ruin it
@David Hennigan: Can you see the Republican party backing Trump in 2020 ? As to who will run against him> good question.
@sean o’dhubhghaill: The Western “Anti Fascists” of the late 30′s and 40′s were for Democracy, Capitalism and Freedoms. The co called Western Antifa movement of this decade are Anarchists, Communists and Racists in their own right. They oppose Democratic values, the oppose capitalism, they oppose Freedoms of anyone that disagrees with them, very much like their Stalinst brethren all those years ago. So in reality they are nothing like those that Fought and Died for Democracy in the Second World War.
@Tony Hartigan: He has a point there were two sets of extremists there set to cause trouble.
@Avina Laaf: No, he does not have a point defending nazis and white supremacists. End of.
@Nick Allen: No, he is not right saying blame is on both sides. One side are nazis and white supremacists. The other side isn’t.
@Nick Allen: And no, racism and bigotry is not solved through job creation.
@Nam Oosh: Yes, Nazis and white supremacists were there to cause problems, those were the two sets of extremists.
@Pat Troy:
Winning the election entitles him to become President, but it doesn’t make him a suitable person to hold the position.
@sean o’dhubhghaill:
Did you ever see the ‘choc-ice kid’ scene in “The Van”?
@Nick Allen:The left have been resorting to violence for a long time now. Not every one at that protest was far right or far left. If you look at more than one of the videos you will see the left arrived before violence began with helmets, baseball bats, iron bars, face masks to a protest. They need to be called out by the press and media. Im certain only a small percentage of both sides were extremists but I guarantee you that the percentage was higher on the left. Both groups do have to accept blame. It is just horrible that someone had to die for something so trivial. This has been brewing for a long time now as the left have been allowed to get away with it for so long now. It is unfortunately but inevitable that this counter violence will happen and it will only get worse.
@Francis Mc Carthy: agree with that. He won’t get the nomination next time out as by that time he will have left a trail of damage from his approach.
@Dog Eat Fog:
So in the world according to you, white supremacist violence = bad (can’t really disagree with you on that) but so-called ‘anti-fascist’ violence = good??
@Avina Laaf:
In my view it was just two different groups of thugs, albeit there for very different reasons. Then again maybe their reasons weren’t that different – using violence to impose their views on others.
@Avina Laaf: There is no comparison. One is evil. The other protests evil. Without evil, the other would not exist.
So your question is incorrect, but in simple terms – racism and bigotry has no place in any society. In my view.
@Nam Oosh: are you saying anyone who has the guts to stand up for HUMAN RIGHTS are extremist ?
@Dog Eat Fog:
You’re completely missing the point. I totally agree that racism and bigotry have no place in society, but far-left extremists who are willing to use violence to impose their views are also bigots.
@Avina Laaf: like it did nixon, Kennedy, both daddy and junior bush,Clinton Obama regan .Trump is far ahead of these war mongering clowns.
@Tony Hartigan: The man is unhinged…any other leader would have been condemning these extremists within an hour…took Donald 2 days.
@Avina Laaf: Are you suggesting that I’m missing the point when Trump is defending Nazis and white supremacists? Or when he’s equaling them to groups protesting the Nazis? Or am I missing the point when you claim he has a point in doing so? Or is it perhaps the fact that I don’t accept any argument from anyone trying to equal Nazis to any group protesting them?
@Tony Hartigan:
All the same hes probably done a great service to Irish industry.
Most of what he tries to do is reversed ,people end up doing the opposite .
I toatal Bufoon !
@Dog Eat Fog:
You keep referring to people ‘protesting’ against white supremacist bigots. I have absolutely no problem with peaceful protest – I’d quite happily protest against them myself.
I have a huge problem with anyone who takes it on themselves to violently attack white supremacist bigots because they disagree with their views though.
You clearly see this use of violence as perfectly acceptable – that’s where we differ.
@Dog Eat Fog: The other side are a bunch of thugs who use violence as a means & think that they are justified in doing so.
@Tony Hartigan: A country that has spent over 90% of its existence in war is a ‘great country’?
@Paul O Mahony: You can skip right to the end of the video,where you will see the s(um of the earth (Chris Cantwell),putting away his arsenal of weapons.
@West Cork Lad: “the fact that nobody on our side died i call that points for us”- Chris Cantwell
@West Cork Lad: what an absolute s(umbag. Brings two assault rifles and three handguns and brags about the death toll
@Dog Eat Fog: Think you’re absolutely missing the point here. I’m not one to defend Trump, but he categorically stated that Nazis and white nationalists are to be condemned, so you are completely wrong when you state he defended them. He did not. That’s the kind of talk that gives credence to all his talk about fake news.
He also was right to condemn the violence from both sides – left AND right. I’m all for peaceful, dignified protest, but the left seems to have been taken over by anarchists that believe violence against groups they don’t agree with is perfectly acceptable. It IS NOT acceptable, under any circumstance, to attack someone for expressing views, no matter how disgusting those views are.
Maybe a more prudent question is “how is this guy still the President?”
@Dave O Keeffe: These are the kind of people that organised those protests in Charlottesville..
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/christopher-cantwell
@West Cork Lad: he is one individual.
@Paul O Mahony: he is a leader of Luke minded people, they were chanting “heil Cantwell” in the video.
@Francis Mc Carthy: kind of hard for him to run the country when there’s constant moaning from the ones who did not vote for him.
@Philip Brady: Republicans didn’t vote for him?
There is no disputing that there was violence on both sides anyone who says different is politicising this tragedy to suit an agenda.
@Chris M.: One side were nazis and white supremacists promoting racism and bigotry. The other side protested. Evil vs. Good. Very simple
@Dog Eat Fog: violent Marxist AntiFa are every bit as evil as violent neo-nazis.
@Chris M.: While quite concerning, it’s interesting to see someone in 2017 equaling Nazis to any other group of people. Well done to you, sir.
Second, “violent Marxist anti fascists”, well done again, defending your Nazis and white supremacists.
@Dog Eat Fog: The Antifa movement in the US are self-described Anarchists. And as such are the mirror image of Facists.
And many of their Black members are avowed racists and bigots. They hate both Whites and Asians.
The Antifa movement are just as hate filled as their White Nationalist counterparts. They despise anyone that disagrees with them and are more than willing to resort to violence to shut down any debate (no matter how civil) that they oppose.
So there is no Good v Evil. There is Vile and Nasty v Vile and Nasty.
@Mick Jordan: And another one who wants to equal Nazis to groups opposing them. Well done. Congrats.
@Dog Eat Fog: You’re all through this thread, putting words in other commentators’ mouths, bleating on about “Good vs. Evil”; you’re either purposely and willfully missing the point or else you are just really stupid.
Nobody suggested the two groups were the same. Their reasons for protest are obviously very different; it is their modus operandi that are the same. Given this fact (and it is a fact), it is quite reasonable to suggest that there is blame on both sides for that violence that occurred..
@Daffy the Bear: If you say that blame is on both sides, then you are implicitly validating the Nazis and the white supremacists, and as such equaling them, or bringing them closer, to their opposition.
This is in my view unacceptable.
There is no comparison. And sure, you’re welcome to call me what you want, I seriously couldn’t care less – humanising, validating, accepting Nazis and white supremacists is so far off the charts, it’s both remarkable and concerning to see anyone making the attempt, regardless of the typical trolling here in the Journal.
But hey, good luck with that.
@Chris M.: Another collaborator emboldened by Orange Hitler.
@Dog Eat Fog: How do you not understand that it is possible to abhor vile white nationalists & also oppose far left Antifa who are comprised of Anarchists & Communists who just like neo nazis also oppose liberal democracy?
@Dog Eat Fog: I fully support liberals, moderate conservatives and the democratic left who oppose neo nazis but I oppose Antifa as they are violent, attack people’s property and just like the neo nazis are enemies of liberal democracy.
@Dog Eat Fog: By your logic Stalin was a grand chap despite the millions he killed in gulags and purges solely because he opposed the far right nutter Hitler.
@Dog Eat Fog: I take it by your answer that you are a supporter of Anarchist violence. So as such are no better than any member of the KKK yourself. You accuse anyone that calls you out on your statements as being somehow in favour of White Nationalism and Racisim, in a a classic attempt to silence them. If this was a physical open meeting, debating this issue I have no doubt you would resort to violence to stop any criticism of the Antifa movement. But personally I am more amused than annoyed at your attempt to imply that I am a “White Racist”. If I am, I must be a very unusual one.
@Dog Eat Fog: VIOLENTLY protested. Which should be rightly condemned. Very simple also
@Dog Eat Fog: “If you say that blame is on both sides, then you are implicitly validating the Nazis and the white supremacists”
What a lazy argument, and a clear case of playing the man. Not once have I seen one person here saying that Nazis and white supremacists are correct. Racism and bigotry is unacceptable, and that goes for both sides. These two groups, on this particular day, in this particular case, are two sides of the same bigoted, violent, abhorrent coin, contributing absolutely nothing to society but anger, fear and death.
@Dog Eat Fog: again with putting words in people’s mouths. I did not validate Nazis or white supremcists or equal them to their opposition; you’ve just missed the point again. If anything, by pointing out the congruency of the attitudes and bahaviours of the left and right extremists, my comment suggests my intention was to invalidate the violent approach to protest on both sides. Your or my personal view of white supremacists or anti-fascists is irrelevant to this argument; this is called objectivity..
@Dog Eat Fog: This video is of Antifa turning on other protesters for not helping them riot.
@AR Devine @Mick Jordan @Alan Roddy @Daffy the Bear -
Gents,
You have in quite convincing manners demonstrated that you are either completely ignorant as to what took place in Charlottesville and Trump’s subsequent responses, or that you simply don’t comprehend what took place, alternatively that you just enjoy trolling on the Journal.
It’s been somewhat entertaining to read, while your arguments are truly concerning if they are indeed a reflection of your genuine opinions.
I’ll give you a collective, final response.
The quasi comparison between KKK/Nazis/White Supremacists and their protesters is not only ill-informed but dangerous.
MLB, Antifa and other anti-hate groups exist only as a response to racism, fascism, discrimination and bigotry in our society, while not as well organised as the hate groups and far more decentralised with fewer followers.
If there were no hate groups, no discrimination, fascism, racism, bigotry, in our society, then these anti-hate groups would not exist.
The blame “logic” you present, while written with quite the illusion of authoritative intent, is absolute rubbish. Dumbing it down to your chosen level, it’s the equivalent of saying that the (former) Soviet Union and the Western Allies were equally to blame for WWII, next to the Nazi regime under Hitler.
KKK, Nazis and White Supremacists are organised hate groups. They live for racism, discrimination and bigotry. There are no good eggs in there. It’s all evil, and should be rejected and denounced, without reservation. There is no comparison.
In Charlottesville, the Nazis and their kin came, organised and fully prepared for fight. Among the protesters you had MLB and Antifa, with a large mix of centrist and left leaning regular people simply opposing hate. It ended as one would expect when hate groups descend on towns, while with deadly outcome.
I personally find it genuinely concerning that there was nothing in your own minds that stopped you before you held both Nazis and protesters at fault for what happened in Charlottesville, and the death of Heather Heyer. Maybe it’s age, maybe it’s education, maybe it’s that you’re drawn towards the White Supremacist agenda. I don’t know, I don’t care, it’s just concerning and equally disturbing.
That said, to each their own.
Have a great day.
By no means am I a fan of Trump but I watched the press conference and he didn’t actually say too much wrong for once.
@Paul O’b: Considering he was meant to calm the unrest about his earlier comments he said everything wrong. His attitude was appalling after his obvious rehearsed speech condemning the KKK he showed his true colours again.
He has become paranoid and more aggressive as time goes on.
@Paul O’b:
People see an article about Trump and comment with their opinion of Trump rather than actually reading the article and trying to consider what is been written about
@Paul O’b: nothing he said was untrue, people are just pissed that he said it, especially the media who hate anyone who deviates from their preferred and coordinated narrative.
@Paul O’b: I watched the violence live as it happened, it appeared to have two sides involved and American commentators were of that belief. At the time they also raised another valid point that America can’t just erase its past. Trump echoed that view in his conference yesterday.
@Kal Ipers: I completely agree with you. He is an aggressive twisted ego maniac but he spoke responsibly truthfully. He condemned neo nazies/white supremacists and said there was wrong on both sides………what else was he suppose to say?
@Nick Allen: Or people are commenting on the complete insanity coming out of Trump’s mouth.
@Paul O’b: too confrontational for the press to handle though?
@Paul O’b: Which part was not “too much wrong” in your opinion? Him defending the Nazis and white supremacists, and equaling them to any other arbitrary group of people? Or perhaps the George Washington comment? Or… maybe how he’s gong to solve racism through job creation? Which part exactly wasn’t “too much wrong”?
@Kal Ipers: See, I don’t get this. When he speaks off the cuff, he’s criticised for being a loose cannon. When he’s on-script, he’s criticised for being obviously rehearsed. Pick one, or admit that any stick to beat him will do.
I get that he’s cringe-makingly inarticulate, but is that actually the problem? Last guy was lauded as the second coming of Cicero, and that didn’t exactly resolve tensions, did it?
@Paul O’b: I assume you mean “reasonably” truthful. It was neither reasonable nor responsible to talk in the manner he did. He basically got into a telling match. The “truth” of what he was saying is very questionable as the whole thing was an aggravated situation caused by the neo-nazis.
@Ben McArthur: The issue is when he is on script he is obviously lying and has been corrected and warned what to say. He then destroys this by showing what he really thinks and has a yelling match with the media while insulting them. The problem us he can’t stay consistent and on point. He appears unstable as a result
@Dog Eat Fog:
1. He didn’t defend Nazis, and white supremacists. In fact he categorically condemned them.
2. What was wrong with the George Washington comment? Did he lie when he said that George Washington was a slave owner?
So far right (just like his father) he is starting to make his party look like they are on the left
Trump biggest mistake was attacking the media from the start. He now has huge difficulties communicating any message without been battered by the press. Trump language isn’t that of a politician either which leaves him wide open to be interpreted incorrectly .
Good, When does he start taking his gawdy, tacky hotels plastered all over the world “back home”? I’d love to get the chance to ask him that.
@Danny foley: A second term? Ha ha good one.
@Dave Murray: He got a lovely welcome home from protesters outside his Trump Tower on Monday night ..
@Dave Murray: More likely than you’d think. What we hear here is heavily biased towards those in major population centres such as New York and LA. In reality, there are about 6-8 states that the next election will come down to. Clinton ignored their concerns and pushed her general agenda, Trump told them what they wanted to hear.
It doesn’t matter how many bleeding hearts in Silicon Valley or Hollywood tweet about how much they hate Trump, if he delivers on his promises to the people of Wisconsin, Iowa, etc. he stands a very strong chance of winning in 2020.
The beginning of the end.
In a country with well over 300 million ,why does a lone nutter get so much press ,i lived in the states and yes there is racism ,just like every other part of the world if you want to look for it ,this has been blown out of all proportion .robert e lee statue should stand ,one cant change or want to change the true history of any nation ,we cant go pandering to every minority grouping .dialogue and civic responsibility yes .Trump is a businessman not a politician ,yet the American people elected him .some how the american media has started to set the narrative for trumps presidency ,but that is all his own fault .i dont believe he will serve the full term .
@Anthony Gallagher: I have to wonder if those people who want him gone so badly even realize who Pence is. Trump is far more desirable, even with all his flaws. Pence is an actual hardcore right winger. And I don’t believe many people understand this. If Trump does get impeached, or god forbid assassinated, then President Pence will be not be any better. He will probably be the most hardcore, religious, ultra conservative president the USA has seen in decades.
@:-): IN GOD WE TRUST
And how exactly is bringing more jobs to America meant to stop racism?
@Sorcha Hendry: Fair question, but the idea is that extremism is usually a response to economic factors. There’s solid historical backing for this, whether it’s Nazism, Communism or Jacobinism.
PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE THE F_CK UP , AND STOP THIS BASTA_D BEFORE ITS TOO LATE
@Damien Wallanger: i cannot shout loud enough
@IRISH OPINION: ok who should replace him? And what was wrong with what he said?
“Steve Bannon is not a racist”
I didn’t know Donald was a comedian.
Bitter bitter bitter get over him .he speaks the truth .
@Tadhg O’shaughnessy: Collaborator.
Would someone point out too this IGNORAMUS that Irish firms employ in access of 200000 yes 2 hundred thousand people in the USA.
#notaracist just like father ted
The US need to amend their right to free speech to exclude incitement of hatred or hate speech.
Ironically their supreme court has protected the right to gather for these marches, thanks a lot Malcolm X.
Take a look at @stillgray’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/896425884315295745?s=09
That winery needs a name change!
It really does get worse and worse! Does anyone out there remember Spitting Image from the 80′s? “The President’s brain is missing” sketches? Life imitating art. I rest my case !
Trumps reasoning is like saying that the allies who stormed the beaches of Normandy in 1944 were violent protesters. Stupid…
@Peter Higgins: No, it’s nothing like that at all…
One Bad Dude…We Should Open A Golf Club For Him In Co Clare.
He called out the right numberous times before stating that there was violence coming fromthe left from the likes of antifa. This article is simply bullshit
Mr. Trump (you don’t deserve the title ‘Mr. President’). You are a bigoted ignoramus.
His slowly losing the plot
have your say