And why do you think the government allegiances lye with apple? I’m in two mind where I stand on this whole situation. But I say I do know where the employee of Apple and all the other employee of multi national company’s stand.

….Ugh….

Ok, do people realise that this 13bn would belong to every country in the world, not Ireland? That in essence, their profits could (not necessarily should) have been greater in every other country and that those countries are (debatably) entitled to this rebate, if not legally, certainly morally.

People on here moralising about how evil Apple are…. but want Ireland to take the 13Bn… Taking what isn’t ours is stealing, what way do your moral compasses point?

The story here for me is that Apple’s margins on iphones is enormous, suggesting, people are paying a lot more than the product is worth… The 200Bn in cash that Apple have is a reflection of people’s poor buying choices more than an evil corporation.

“Do people realise that this 13bn would belong to every country in the world, not Ireland?” I think you are right about that. If the Irish government hold Apple’s money in the Escrow account and then Apple are successful in their appeal they would want their money paid back by Ireland WITH INTEREST which they would be fully entitled to. So the Irish tax payer would have to pay the interest. If, as you said, “this 13bn would belong to every country in the world, not Ireland”, we won’t get much of it anyway if the Apple appeal fails.

mickmc,

Are you suggesting that Ireland doesn’t tax any companies that threaten to cut jobs?

“do people realise that this 13bn would belong to every country in the world…?”

What countries? The Apple shell company which was being used to tax launder their profits was not tax resident in any country.

In an ideal world of course not. However you have to be practical when dealing with tens of thousands of peoples jobs. You’d appreciate that if you ever had a job other than spouting left wing nonsense all day every day on this website.

“The Irish government has done absolutely nothing wrong” – says Tim Cook, DoB, et al…
At this stage, it’s quite obvious where our ‘government’s’ loyalties are.
Even the slightest hesitation to accept €13 Billion on behalf of the Irish people has tipped their hand.
if I had any doubts, I don’t have any now.

Is that a yes then mickmc? So if an Irish company threatens to cut jobs, should we absolve them of their tax liability also?

P.S. If you have a job yourself , should you not be working and so unable to post yourself and also unaware of my activity on the Journal?

It called an 11 o’clock tea break. You get 15 minutes to relax have a cup of tea look at your phone etc. You should try it.

Did you also have a 9 o’clock tea break when you posted 2 hours ago above mickmc?

With all those breaks and so little to do mickmc, are you by any chance working in the Revenue Commissioners, Apple taxation section?

@sup – same government, by the way. Just different people sitting in the seat.

Btw: It was the current government that had a mandate to renegotiate this, and had advice from economics as well as regular protests outlining how to do it from the likes of the Ballyhea Bondholders Protest, and semi support from the EU who stated that Ireland had to initiate any reqeust to renegotiate or assess separation of EU-wide debt from genuine Irish accrued debt.

The current government NEVER EVEN ASKED, and instead transferred it to impossible to separate sovereign debt. I am really hoping that Michael Noonan is severely incompetent, and possibly blackmailed, because if he made the decisions he has made in the dept of finance in full compis mentus, then he should be tried for treason.

No interest would be payable by Ireland. The money would be in escrow and, if successful, Apple would receive the interest earned in the escrow account only.

If Ireland were not to appeal and take the money it would undermine Ireland’s entire tax code. The EU has tried for years to whip Ireland into line on various taxes including corporation tax and VRT. They cannot interfere with member countries tax laws so they have, over the years, attempted to get at us through competition law. They tried to abolish VRT citing interference with competition, they have long regarded our corporation tax rates as unfair competition and no they are going down the illegal state aid route.
Either we have control over our own tax law or we do not. The Irish Government gave to fight this ruling tooth and nail or watch this country lose every competitive advantage ,of our economy and become a poverty stricken backwater of Europe.

You mean it might undermine Ireland’s role as de facto tax haven? Charity for big capital and austerity for the majority. Of course the E.U. have pursued this case and exposed Ireland under their own geopolitical agenda. The working class have no friends in either ruling elites of the E.U or within our own Irish state.

This isn’t the first time apple have been caught owing back taxes some where.
Apple pays China $71M in back taxes, $10M fine after misinterpreting law.

Apple has agreed to pay a €318m fine in Italy to settle a long-running investigation into the US technology company’s tax arrangements in the country, according to Italian authorities.
Italy’s tax office said Apple’s subsidiary in the country failed to properly declare its earnings between 2008 and 2013 and alleged that the company should have paid €880m over the period
Following an inquiry by Milan-based prosecutors, Italian authorities and the world’s most valuable company have been locked in negotiation for months. It emerged on Wednesday that Italy’s tax office has accepted a smaller amount to close the case.

Sup,
It was the Irish government.

@Billy Mooney. 8.13am (not 9am) is when the comment was logged just before I went into work and no it definitely not revenue. Attention to detail wouldn’t be your strongest point because if you actually read my original point I basically said I could see both sides of the argument here. Probably a more important point is, is the €13 Billion our to spend at all even if the EC finds against Ireland in an appeal.

Good to see you beginning to see sense mickmc. And yes it’s ours to spend as per the E.U ruling. And it’s closer to €19 billion with taxes and penalties as we’re focusing on details and all that.

Well I no expert in tax law but those who purport to be would suggest that a number of other countries may well have a claim on some of this €13 billion. Not our yet by a long shot Billy.

MickC, yes correct , we’re only talking about thousands of Irish jobs….last time I checked we had a population of nearly 5 million!! What about the rest of us??
Who pays for the roads? Who pays to educate these marvelous employees that Apple and Co. use? Who pays for the infrastructure? The police the emergency services , health care etc, Govt? Apple need to pay their fair share and stop arranging accounting tricks with the Dept or Finance

@mickmc. Correct. And more to the point, there is no 13Bn. Or 19Bn. Or any Bn actually. That’s cos even if our Govt fails to defend itself and challenges this, we’ll Apple certainly will defend itself. They could throw €10Bn at lawyers and tie this up for a decade in court. …and still win. Which means no-one gets their hands on any Bn. People need to get a grip on reality.

There are no taxes and penalties, only interest.

The EU didn’t impose any fine. Yet.

Well, according to the Eu there is 19 billion.

Apple have a choice – pay it here or pay it in the US.

No, this is Ireland where the state guarantees ever increasing prosperity for the elite and relentless austerity for the working class. Most nations are governed like this.

And AAA is off on a rant

I know, that Conor Faughnan lad never pipes down.

Apple’s worldwide effective tax rate for 2014 was 26%. They set aside $17 billion to pay tax for that year alone.

Which is why the 0.005% figure bandied about is such nonsense. The EU commisioner is being very selective by picking one of Apples subsidiary companies. I’m sure if one of their subsidiaries made a loss, there would be no profit to tax so she would have claimed they paid 0% tax. The relevant figure for how much tax Apple paid in 2014 is their global figure – $17 billion. The misleading manner in which the commissioner bandied about the 0.005% in figure in front of the media shows how political this is.

It was only last month that Apple was whinging about the lack of housing in Ireland for their staff. The wholesale corporate tax dodging that Apple undertakes makes governments unable to fund social housing construction which would increase the housing stock and make accommodation available for their workers. As ever the corp orates look to maximise their take and minimize their contribution. The stench of corporate hypocrisy and greed is overwhelming:

“Multinationals are increasingly viewing the homelessness crisis in Ireland as an obstacle to economic growth. Intel and Apple recently called on the government to address the lack of housing for staff”
http://www.thejournal.ie/housing-crisis-ireland-2-2876298-Jul2016/

So let’s grant Apple their wish now and use their €19 billion to fund a massive program of social and affordable housing construction.

In fairness Fred was on about Apples worldwide tax not the minutiae of housing issues, but in contrast the Eu was on about the minutiae of Apples subsidiary in playing the wild card at the expense of Irish Citizens. The rub is the accountants who we all know advise on tax policy and hey it just happens to create loopholes for companies like Apple to use.. So really who are apple trying to kid.. Let’s be grown up about it. Call it as it is, a scam..

There are plenty of houses in Ireland for everyone. The problem is that we house people who refuse to work right in the heart of where the jobs are… And then that force working people to move ever further out because they do not have the means to compete with the state who has set aside more of our capital city for social housing than any other city in Europe.

People who don’t work should be housed where access to jobs is not an issue, therefore making it affordable for working people (who pay for their lazy compatriots) to have a decent sized house in a decent area on an average salary.

The homeless crisis is caused by a lack of affordable homes and the unemployment crisis is caused very simply by a lack of decent paying jobs. Both shortages exist becasuse they benefit capital at the expense of the majority working class.

Once again there are plenty of affordable homes in Ireland. People who are on the verge of homelessness cannot afford a house whatsoever so it is strange to claim that house prices are causing homelessness. The only crisis is a crisis of people insisting at all costs to live in Dublin, when working people should rise up and say enough is enough, if we are to pay for your house you will take what you are given and where you are given it.

72% of people on the housing waiting list do not contribute one penny to society, yet harp on about how that same society has a “responsibility” to them. Everyone must contribute as without a collective effort Ireland cannot reach it’s full potential.

Fred, Stop spoofing establishment mouthpiece. Apple did not pay €17 billion in taxes in 2014. They “set aside” that amount in case the authorities managed to tax some of the billions they funnel around the globe to avoid tax.

And again the cause of the housing crisis is a lack of affordable homes for purchase and rent. And working people (and everyone else) should indeed be rising up. Though not against the homeless and other victims of the capitalist system but against the corporate parasites like Apple who loot society with the eager assistance of our establishment political class.

And again the cause of the housing crisis is a lack of affordable housing to purchase and rent. Though working people and everyone else should be rising up. Though not against the homeless and other victims of the capitalist system but against the corporate parasites like Apple who loot society with the eager assistance of our establishment political class.

Sure it’s not homeless peoples fault! It’s the government who pays for them to lie in hotels while perfectly good houses in Longford sit empty and could be housing families. This “crisis” could be solved tomorrow if the government would just utilise the empty houses around the country.

Guess what would happen then? Once we housed everyone who needs one outside of Dublin, demand in Dublin would collapse and prices would stabilise at a far more affordable level for working people. You should look at Sweden’s social housing programme and what a disaster it was!

Now I’m off to watch this O’Devaney Gardens propaganda programme to hear about how they are all amazing salt of the commoonity kind of people… And we just misunderstand them.

The problem is that while accepting the billions is tempting you at the same time establish a precedent for allowing the European Commission to interfere in the tax affairs of a sovreign state. The can then proceed to ude this back door to harmonise corporation tax across the EU and god knows what else. It would appear that while Ms Vestager & co are quick to go after US companies such as Apple and Microsoft they are not so quick to look into the sweet deals being made for european companies. The US are already more than tired of the EU tactics to the point where continued membership of NATO is being discussed. This is all a politically fuelled act and the eu should be very careful how they play it.

13 billion pieces of silver, Ireland need to stand up to EU, think this is political

Where’s Wally :)

Utter bull from a trough gobbling champagne Charles, eh wally

The Garlic importer funnilly enough had the garlic listed as APPLES…

“..why Marxists advocate anarchy”

Too funny hotbank, I suggest reading a book or failing that maybe even the wiki page for “Marxism” and the page for “anarchy”. You’re welcome.

Hotbank,

Why then did Irish law fail so badly to protect the “bodily integrity” of the thousands of children raped, tortured and worse in our industrial schools over many decades? Just one example of many gross failures to protect the welfare of ordinary people..

As I said, the content and the application of the law protects the powerful and the wealthy as they formulate the legislation in their own interests. We see for example in the financial sector where the government allows powerful corporate interest groups to effectively write much of our legislation:

“The International Financial Services Centre (IFSC) Clearing House group – which includes AIB, Bank of Ireland and Citigroup – gets to meet in private with government officials four or five times per year………………. Department of the Taoiseach Secretary General Martin Fraser admitted that the “bulk” of the group’s recommendations had been adopted in the Finance Act which implemented the Budget…………………… However, Labour TD Kevin Humphreys said it appeared that the recommendations of the group were being adopted “lock, stock and barrel”. And Socialist Party TD Joe Higgins said the group had unprecedented influence on government policy…….. The other members of the IFSC Clearing House group include Bank of America, Barclays, KPMG, Deloitte, and Ernst and Young.”

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/kenny-aide-denies-bank-lobby-group-calling-shots-on-budgets-29289664.html

The comparison was between the importer and his supplier, and Ireland and apple… The imposter caught by revenue, Apple caught by the EU. The importer knew he was misrepresenting the tax he was supposed to pay, so did Apple/FF/FG.

Billy, who made the device you use to upload your comments?

Billy/Wally gives uselfull idiots a bad name. Dont you know wally lenin wanted you to use soundbites and not write essays :)

Nice to see the establishment mouthpieces frothing at the mouth. Feeling the pressure boys?

Ireland was transformed from its backwards, socialist DeValeria, “sick man of Europe” utopia by the Tallaght Strategy, to abandon protectionism and attract investment by the big multinationals such as Apple. Those decisions transformed Ireland.
You AAA/PBP wallys would have us return the the politics of the 1916 heroes?

Buster, if Apple workers were responsible for assembling Billy’s phone so what? Apple only built it because it was government funded research which enabled the technology to be developed, hard to accept I know. You would think in a fair system the inventor (government) would benefit at least equally to the assembler of technology or not?

Buster,
Our “independence” in the Republic is largely a failure. All we’ve achieved was to swap a British ruling capitalist class for an Irish one and so we’ve had a century of domestic poverty, state and religious repression, mass unemployment and mass emigration while the pampered elite in business, politics, media, religion and the law viciously protected the status quo which serves them so well.

And the multinationals are another international exploitative force. The corporates always take more from society than they contribute. That’s how they make their profits and profit maximization is the sole reason for their existence.

The multinationals only operate in Ireland in order to exploit our workers, infrastructure and generous tax regime etc. It’s us who are bestowing favors on them and they’ll be gone as soon as another nation offers a sweeter deal as the Dell abdication to Poland shows.

The collective society bears the cost of providing the labour force for the multinationals and also its customers. We feed, clothe and care for our children, we build the schools and colleges, and employ the teachers to educate them, construct the hospitals and hire the medical staff to care for them etc until they reach adulthood. At this point the multinationals step in and cherry pick which people they choose to employ.

And capital only ever employs labour in order to exploit it to a greater or lesser degree. The sole objective of capitalist enterprise is the accumulation of profit and that profit is generated by the workers in the excess value they create over and above their wages. That is the essence of capitalism and it’s inherently exploitative. Capitalist enterprise will not create a single job or produce a single product or service without the expectation of profit.

Society builds the power stations and electricity networks and other utilities which feed the capitalists’ factories. We constructed the communications networks that they depend on and roads, ports and airports which transport their products. All private commercial activity ultimately depends on the human and infrastructural resources which society has created collectively. Capital does labour no favours. Precisely the opposite in fact. The working class bears the cost of providing the infrastructure and the next generation of workers both for capital to exploit.

The state if it’s acting in the interests of a majority can attempt to recoup some of the corporate profit back through taxation which can then be redistributed back to the majority who actually created the profit via social supports like health, education, infrastructure etc. (This assumes of course that the democratic state is acting in the interests of the majority which we know is not the case as the catastrophic bank bailout clearly demonstrated.)

Now it’s clear that even this bare minimum level of fairness is no longer possible in the world of corporate profit shifting and tax avoidance which allows the multinationals to make virtually no contribution to the workers and society which they prey on.

So it’s the corporations who desperately need the working class both to produce and buy their productive output in order that that can accumulate profit. They need us, far far more than we need them.
The solution is to manage our economic activity with the objective of meeting human need (in the broadest sense) rather than for the purposes of accumulating profit into private hands as occurs under capitalism.

The reality is that there is more than enough real resources (land, energy labour etc) to provide everyone on the planet with proper nutrition, a decent home, healthcare, education and a job. It’s a political and ideological choice to deny people these basics, not economic misfortune.

Here here sir.

That was outrageous the way that man was treated, villified like he was ‘El Chapo’ in some quarters at the time

See the headline has changed from this morning. Now the headline is
The Irish government has done absolutely nothing wrong” – Tim Cook.
Earlier the headline was.
We should be talking about future taxes, not old ones” – Tim Cook.

The Irish government has done nothing wrong…claim Apple who are up Billions… The Irish people are about to be screwed again though, we will see how the crooked politicians vote on friday, no doubt in the favor of Apple and not the people who elected them.

A Tax Expert Takes Tim Cook’s EU Letter Apart Point By Point
Cook blasted an EU ruling that Apple used Irish subsidiaries to avoid billions in taxes, but his defense is only one side of the story.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fastcompany.com/3063340/a-tax-expert-rips-tim-cooks-eu-letter-apart-point-by-point&ved=0ahUKEwiJ_6246-3OAhWFOsAKHTxqA2oQqUMIJzAC&usg=AFQjCNHspAn0FA2mXtL6FdkCtqBjiZawxw&sig2=Sb_rJk2-xHfyrOfhk154Dw

It wasn’t even registered in the cayman.

The taxes on these profits should all be paid in the US, which is where Apple is based and which is where all of it’s products are created.

The Apple subsidiaries in the EU should only pay corporation taxes that reflect the amount of value added to Apple products in the EU, which is very little.

Denito. That can’t be true. Because of whats said in cooks letter and their annual reports. Here’s a link where a tax expert breaks down Tim cooks letter.

Cook: Taxes for multinational companies are complex, yet a fundamental principle is recognized around the world: A company’s profits should be taxed in the country where the value is created. Apple, Ireland, and the United States all agree on this principle. In Apple’s case, nearly all of our research and development takes place in California, so the vast majority of our profits are taxed in the United States.
Gardner: It sounds like what they’re saying is that these ought to be thought of as U.S. profits, which makes it hard to understand why they have been so eager to report these profits in Ireland up until now. As long as Apple can pretend their profits are being earned in Ireland they won’t have to pay a dime in taxes on them.

It doesn’t appear to be even remotely truthful based on the numbers they publish in their annual reports. Each year they report that the majority of their profits are earned outside the U.S., with roughly a third (on average, over the past five years) coming from the U.S. When you look at the 10K, the annual report for 2015, you see the company reports earnings of $72 billion worldwide, and just one third of those profits are attributed to the U.S. And yet Cook’s statement says that the vast majority of their income is taxed in the U.S.

We think that is a very low estimate. It certainly appears that the company is shifting profits out of the U.S. and into tax havens overseas. So one of these things must not be true: Either the numbers presented to shareholders in their annual report are false, or Tim Cook’s new statement that the majority of its profits are taxed in the U.S is false. They both can’t be true.
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fastcompany.com/3063340/a-tax-expert-rips-tim-cooks-eu-letter-apart-point-by-point&ved=0ahUKEwiJ_6246-3OAhWFOsAKHTxqA2oQqUMIJzAC&usg=AFQjCNHspAn0FA2mXtL6FdkCtqBjiZawxw&sig2=Sb_rJk2-xHfyrOfhk154Dw

It called repatriation, it only comes tax due in the US when it lands there. If it hasn’t landed yet, then it in limbo. Just like a shoplifter hasn’t robbed anything until he tries to leave your shop with the goods. Thats where the difference amounts with US tax paid and the foreign amount nobody has been paid tax for, can be said to reside. So he isn’t technically lying, he just hasn’t made a dash for the shop doorway yet.

@paul that’s a point lost in the fog of socialism. Let the truth prevail. Role on appeal.

When you think about this Apple tax deal and add it to the tax avoidance of Vulture funds, all with the blessing of the government, and collusion of the Revenue Commisioners. Add NAMA to it as well. You realise that the governments of FG/Lab and FG/FF have facilitated the defrauding of the state of much needed tax revenue.
We all know about the problems in the country, homelessness, eviction courts, sky high rents, health service problems, medical card problems, wholesale cuts to much needed services, or services cut completely etc. Problems that could be alleviated to a great extent by this money. Just think, Mars Capital pays tax on millions in profit as a minimum wage worker pays in a year.

Kenny, Noonan, Gilmore, and Burton, for starters, should be up in court for defrauding the state.

@ O’Callaghan Stephen
I love it the way all you neo-liberal brain washed FG and FF voters keep calling left wing type ‘Head bangers’ (quoted from Micheal O’Leary no doubt) and ‘Loony lefty’s', it makes me laugh every time!
You guys are so out of date!
Stop pretending and remember that it was you guys with your right wing policies that bankrupted the state, and loaded over ONE HUNDRED BILLION EURO in private gamblers debt on to the back of the tax payer!…oh and don’t forget your other roaring success – the return of mass Emigration, homelessness, an epidemic of suicide, A&E crisis, a two tier health system, child care crisis, a debt to GDP ratio of 200% (in real terms! when you take in private debt)
You guys are the lunatics here Sir !!… so don’t forget it!

Says Paul the…oh wait this is just another Journal permitted anonymous troll account with the ever telling default egg avatar that will spew all sorts of shįte in order to get a reaction. Most likely created by whatever so called journalist who wrote this muck.

@ Paul…could of did’???.. Holy sh!t

Am I missing something really obvious? Why should the Irish government/taxpayer spend a fortune on expensive lawyers when APPLE will obviously be doing the same thing?. Same legal argumentation. Let APPLE pay for the appeal, if they win they win, are lawyers paid for by Irish taxpayers superior to the ones Apple will hire?

A certain class in this place have gotten used to a ‘two tier’ set up in most walks of life, tax rules that apply to one but not the other, criminality that goes unpunished and heavily punished, healthcare that’s immediately available and long long waits, guaranteed jobs and pensions for some and insecurity for the majority, traffic offenses that can be made disappear for some but heavy fines and penalty points for others. The list could go on and on.
We’ve become a rotten Republic.

Those are all reflections of the battle between the minority capitalist class and the majority working class and the latter is currently on the losing end and will continue to be so until they take the necessary steps to end the exploitation.

The EU is dead right in this situation. The real crooks are the Irish politicians working hard to create loopholes for corporations. Ever wonder what kind of politician would turn down a 13bn windfall that could win them the next election? The kind that doesn’t need to worry about getting re-elected…

Try winning an election when 300,000+ Irish employees of multinational jobs end up on the scratcher because Ireland is seen as fiscally unstable and not in control of its own tax laws. €13bn windfall is very short-sighted.

You’re right, I forgot politicians are notoriously long-sighted… and 300k jobs would not be lost. The funny thing is, a lot of the apple jobs created have absolutely nothing to do with generating profit, they’re support staff so it makes no sense to move them, since they won’t save any tax by switching countries.

Jesus…do you even know what Apple does in Cork? They have one of the only production facilities in the world run by Apple, yep no profit generating jobs there…. In 1991 Ireland made an immoral pitch that attracted jobs….the alternative reality is without these loopholes we would have been pretty much goosed. A 12.5 corporation tax is also immoral when personal tax is so high, but what is the alternative? Unemployment….Ireland won’t get 13 billion anyway it will be either used for debt write down or we will be challenged by other jurisdictions where the real profit should have been taxed. Sinn Fein again sprouting nonsense when they know full well the reality of the situation.

I said a lot, not all. Feel free to look on their website, support and admin staff outnumber production jobs 2:1. The issue isn’t 12.5% rate at all! If they were actually paying 12.5% on all legitimate profits filtered through Ireland there would be no issue. The European commission has already said Ireland is free to use the money as it wishes. And this isn’t sf/aaa/pbp populist nonsense. I can’t stand the left in this country but they and the EU are in the right here.

Eirexit ?? Nonsense. We do such a good job on getting multi billion dollar businesses to pay tax and contribute their fair share to countries that we don’t need the EU ?? Sucessive Irish Govts have tugged the forelock to US multinationals for far too long whilst effectively neglecting SME’s and riding the PAYE worker for every red cent. It took the EU to finally point that out.

@John O’Brien: It is fact that the rules of the tax regime effective in Ireland at the time were followed by Apple. However you feel about them, they were the rules then. Changing rules retrospectively will give any C-level executive doubt as to whether they can trust Ireland to stick to the rules and they could decide to set-up elsewhere or leave Ireland.

If the average industrial worker gets €700 a week then i and most of the people i know are vastly underpaid……

“Tax workers, not the capital” seems to be the idea.

@Shane Carroll,
“Average industrial salary: The average industrial wage in 2012 in the Republic of Ireland was €828.88 per week”
I was being conservative.
Anyway, you completely missed my point.

Yes . If apple are funnelling all their European profit through Ireland. Then yes.
The commission said the tax treatment in Ireland enabled Apple to avoid taxation on almost all profits generated by sales of Apple products in the entire EU Single Market.

“This is due to Apple’s decision to record all sales in Ireland rather than in the countries where the products were sold.

I believe it was Haughey. Enough said.

If anyone is owed the 13Bn, it’s certainly not Ireland. If the EU want to demand Apple reduce the cost price of the iPhone into those countries, to increase the profit Apple should have made, to increase the taxes Apple pay in those countries, then there’s a logical argument to be made for that (though there is no definition on what an appropriate transfer price is and it’s should not be the EU’s remit to decide that either!).

So where are we, oh yeah, the 13Bn isn’t ours.

Lar,
I suspect the 0.005% figure is fiction. Before getting too exited, does anyone know, or can cite, exactly where this figure of 13bn came from?

Mary, like it or not Ireland is a low tax country for income tax. We get hammered on a range of other taxes though. But that is an Irish Government choice and we elect the Government.

Hotbank, the two companies involved in this highly unethical scheme are Irish. The issue is that despite being incorporated in Ireland, one of the companies is tax resident in the Cayman Islands. This is highly unusual in international tax, possibly unique. How can an Irish company collecting royalties from another Irish company not be liable for any tax in Ireland?

Because nobody likes giving money to a government that doesn’t know how to spend it James.

Nobody’s forcing them Jimmy, they can move operations if they want.

@hotbank – we are not obligated to tax anything on apples global operations, nothing, zero. But if Apple is setup to say that everything is generated in Cork, then it is they who stated they should be taxed in Cork, and nowhere else. This is really simple – Apple could move these companies to the Cayman Islands in the morning and it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference to their obligations to us.