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TAOISEACH ENDA KENNY has shrugged off the impact of last night’s statement from the finance ministers of Finland, the Netherlands and Germany – who appeared to rule out the prospect of European help in a revised bailout of Ireland’s banking sector.
Kenny told the Dáil that the statement was one merely of three finance ministers, and did not trump or undo the policy reached by the 27 European heads of government in June when they agreed to break the link between banking and sovereign debts.
“The decision taken on the 29th of June was clear, is clear, and articulates very clearly what the decision of the heads of government actually is,” Kenny said, adding: “Those are the decisions, without any equivocation.
“As far as I am concerned… we want to see the clear decision and mandate given by the European Council implemented. And that’s where the focus and direction of our negotiations will be.”
Kenny faced criticism from all three opposition groups in the Dáil this morning on the matter, with Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin accusing Kenny of failing to follow through on the June agreement, and insisting that Kenny’s interpretation of the June statement differed from those of other countries.
“This is not a decision of just three ministers,” the Taoiseach responded, referring to the June deal. “This is a decision made by the heads of government of the 27 countries of the European Union.”
Sinn Féin’s Mary Lou McDonald said the Taoiseach’s approach had been “all smoke and mirrors” – adding that the government had “cornered the market on misery”.
“Each of the ministers aren’t equal and the fact of the matter – you know it full well – is that when you have a joint statement from those three finance ministers, it is a very significant thing,” McDonald said.
The Taoiseach insisted that the decision of June 29 – in which ministers specifically referenced the possibility of improving the sustainability of Ireland’s debts – remained the formal policy of the European Council and “will be implemented”.
Kenny also told Shane Ross, speaking for the technical group, that Ireland was not given any prior notice about the statement being issued by the three ministers, whose countries are among the few AAA-rated members of the eurozone.
“You’re aware of the municipal elections in Finland, you’re aware that a government is not yet formed in the Netherlands,” Kenny told Ross, saying German finance minister Wolfgang Schauble had given strong assistance to Michael Noonan in European discussions on Ireland’s promissory notes.
Ross said Kenny was unfairly playing down the statement, quoting reports from Reuters who said Ireland could “remain saddled with vast amounts of debt” which would make it harder to rescue the national economy.
“There is no resiling and no going back from the clarity of the decision to break the link” between sovereigns and banks, Kenny however affirmed.
The Taoiseach did not answer queries from both McDonald and Ross asking why the Department of Finance had last night “welcomed” the trilateral statement, which both said had done harm to Ireland’s chances of a financial rescue.
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Squeezing Blood from a stone protest
Date: Saturday 6th October
Time: 13:00
Location: Leinster House
Enough is enough
Tell Europe we want debt relief!
Tell Our government they work for Us!
It will cost you nothing but could change everything!
For once in your life make a stand and be proud you tried to stop the Lunacy!
Or do not attend and moan and suffer slowly until you end up eventually having to make a stand for keeping a lot less as you know thus process will continue until they meet a equal force!
STOP IT NOW.
Don’t continue to be a bystander
already there
For once in my life make a stand?? What a ridiculously patronising thing to say and not likely to encourage people is it?? Besides for all you know I could be making a stand the whole time
If you are making a stand then the statement obviously isn’t aimed at you! FFS! What the hell is wrong with people on here? Getting their knickers in a twist about tit for tat shite! Get out and protest! 6th of October!!! I’ll be there!
Dec, man you need to relax. The point I was making is that the post implores people to come out and protest and yet it treats those same people with undisguised contempt. Not the most inspiring approach, but probably better than your approach of “what the hell is wrong with you? Protest!”
Sham… The word “relax” needs to be removed from our mindset! We’ve been far too relaxed up until now!
Dec I actually salute that
@ Sham, allow me to clear up this irrelevant point. I Originally sent the message to someone that was moaning who has never got off their arse..
I posted it here forgetting to edit it for a mass audience as I’m too busy being a productive slave for the revenue..
Its a pity you couldn’t focus what’s really important here as you’re detracting from serious issues.
See you on the 6th October.
The decision made by 27 governments on the 29th did NOT say that banking debt aid would be applied retro-actively. This is NOT a case of the EU moving the goalposts. It is a case of our Finance Minister saying something that wasn’t true, and hoping, by saying it, it would become true. Spoofing again. But the blame where it’s due. As for putting pressure on the EU, what leverage do we have to put pressure on. Before advocating a default, I think we need a realistic and objective study on the worst and best case scenarios resulting from a default. I’m not saying don’t default, but I am saying don’t default with our eyes shut. No point defaulting if it puts us in a worse position, but do default if it puts us in a better position. The problem is, no-ones giving a realistic analysis of this. People or either shouting angry slogans or humming calming lullabies..
Red thumbed you by mistake Nikolas, apologies
Red thumbed you Nikolas. No mistake
Niko…
think you have your facts wrong on this..
@ Declan – How so? As far as I am aware, the only people who ever said that the agreement on the 29th could and would be applied retroactively was the Irish Government. Find me a reference to where an EU body said this and I’ll happily admit I was wrong
what facts are wrong?
Its an opinion you have suggested…Not a fact. But maybe ye will all get your way and we wont get a deal and we will all be better then…. loads of fodder to fill the boards of journal.ie…..lets hope for that shall we..
I’m sorry, Declan, but there has been no statement from any group at the EU-level that the agreeing reached on the 29th includes backdating the decision to incorporate the Irish banking debt is clearly NOT an opinion. Opinions are subjective. Facts are objective, and can be proven or disproven by looking at the official state as released at the time of the decision. I said that I would happily say I am wrong if you can show me an official statement that disproves what is above. You did not do this. I try my best to be polite, open-minded and to avoid straying from the argument at hand here, so please do me the dignity of debating on a level footing and not being disingenuous, which I think you are being, as I am quite sure that you understand full we’ll the difference between opinion and fact, and you know full we’ll that I have not presented an opinion above, instead I have related the facts in as much as I am aware of them. Playing silly beggars will make me think less of you and, as you are a politician, you cannot afford to have people think less of you. People don’t vote for representatives who condescend.
excellent response Nickolas, however I think you will find with Mr. Cotter an inability to be able to stand over various completely inaccurate statements. Have to admit, didn’t realise he was a policitican, but that kind of explains some of the other posts I’ve read from him elsewhere. Never let lies get in the way of the truth, just like a politician.
Some useful advice from Rabobank on the likely consequences of a sovereign default.
Seems the political elite are likely to be the biggest losers.
http://www.rabobank.com/content/images/SP1102ska%20To%20default%20or%20not%20to%20default_tcm43-139308.pdf
This challenge will prove if Kenny has the balls. It could make or brake him.
It’s not a case of Kenny having balls. They don’t care. The EU project supersedes our concerns. As with most Irish politicians they play the game to look like they care. It’s EU Uber Alles. If you voted Yes this is your day.
We may be small but surely we must have one chip left to gamble!?? No idea what that might be but if you could suggest………
I’m sure we’ll get a deal eventually. Probably the day after everybodys paid.
There’s a lot of anger out there over this rebuff but what were people expecting?
They’ve merely said what our government is unwilling or unable to do:
We won’t pay for debts not incurred by our people.
The three countries are standing up for their taxpayers, just what I’d like ours to do.
In a parallel universe….
Someone should tell Kenny who holds the purse strings in the EU. If he thinks that what the Finances ministers of Germany, Holland and Finland have to say doesn’t have a major bearing on policy decisions in the EU then I really fear for Ireland.
Kerry , and other , at noon today the EU Commission said Kenny was right I what he said. The Commission iterated the terms of the Agreement. Sorry to have the ranters upset in this definitive way.
Can you provide a link to that Rory?
Kerry, RTE website.
Read that Rory doesn’t mention anything about looking after debt retrospectively. So I looked for the statement made by the European council President after the meeting in June. Low and behold it makes no mention of looking after debt retrospectively either….
The summit statement from European Council president Herman van Rumpuy goes as follows:
“We affirm that it is imperative to break the vicious circle between banks and sovereigns. The Commission will present Proposals on the basis of Article 127(6) for a single supervisory mechanism shortly. We ask the Council to consider these Proposals as a matter of urgency by the end of 2012. When an effective single supervisory mechanism is established, involving the ECB, for banks in the euro area the ESM could, following a regular decision, have the possibility to recapitalize banks directly. This would rely on appropriate conditionality, including compliance with state aid rules, which should be institution specific, sector-specific or economy-wide and would be formalised in a Memorandum of Understanding. The Eurogroup will examine the situation of the Irish financial sector with the view of further improving the sustainability of the well-performing adjustment programme. Similar cases will be treated equally.”
Of Kenny was technically right in what he said. The problem is that what the three finance ministers said is in complete accordance with the decision on the 29th. There was never any discrepancy. Enda Kenny did not say today that there was going to be a bank debt write-down based on the decision on the 29th, he his only letting the public infer this. Spin.
“the statement was one merely of three finance ministers”… Not all finance ministers are created equal.
The way people talk….I kinda think they hope we dont get a deal…really i do
Get over to Brussels and say that Mr Kenny.
Always full of bulldog spirit with the backup of the gang, spineless on his own
I think you will find he has….I also think you will find that the agreement in June stands…..and this is all much huff and puff and more about the media getting to fill slots than anythings else… We will get the best possible deal we can get…. Why would Mr Noonan or Mr Kenny want anything else??? Do you think they want more debt??? Like its in their interest for Ireland not to get a deal…
Declan, as far as I recall each payment out of the ESM requires agreement from Germany according to a decision made by its parliament. We will only get a deal if we threaten default or some other disaster. Can’t see Enda threatening that. In fact he has promised the opposite.
When all the debt is socialised there’ll be a ‘deal’. This is criminal.
Newsflash for those who say Kenny needs to grow a pair etc etc
It aint going to happen. They have been stringing us along since day one, either through fear of ECB, or contempt for their own electorate or a mixture of both.
Enda Kenny is an embarrassment within his own party, nevermind the rest of the country. The man can’t answer a straight question in our parliament, or in our media and yet some people think he can fight our corner. It’s laughable if it weren’t so serious.
Don’t forget the when FG/Lab loose power, which they will, none of them will be personally affected by the sh*t they and the government before them signed us up to.
He should try and shrug off about 30 Billion when he heads to Europe.
Yeah the three countries with any money left.
Take control, live life to the full and if you have anything left maybe stick it in the mortgage account, these bastards don’t give a flying fcku about you.
What was it 62% do ye ever get the feeling ye’ve been double crossed yet again.
I want to say I told you so …… Ah what the heck !
I told you so.I am so glad I voted NO in June and \|I do not hold out any hope of this shower of
two faced lying b…! Calm I do not trust these people yet again !
Yeah, shouting “I told you so!” makes you big and clever. Please accept our growing apologies and suck the f*ck up.
Do not apologise to me …
I can live with my conscience .
It is future generations who are at the loss.
But more to the point , What are you going to do about it ?
And no I will not ” suck the f*ck up.” whatever that means !
The key factor in this is not who has said what, but who hasn’t said anything, i.e. the French. Back in the days of Merkozy, you could be sure that the French would be standing alongside the Germans. That they haven’t sided with the Germans on this occasion should be a cause for optimism. So I think wait and see what hand the French play.
Also the way some people are talking on this page, I think the half of them would be delighted if we didn’t get a deal. They seem to enjoy all this negativity. The level of cynicism and apathy in this country is very disheartening.
I personally would be extremely happy to get a deal. The issue here is the complete and utter discontinuity between what the Irish government and the other EU governments are saying. Our government presents the situation as a constant “will they – won’t they?” Situation, but the EU side presents the situation as a consistent and in changing “no” to a banking-debt write down. Looking at what has actually been said in the agreements made by all the EU countries, I’m inclined to believe that the truth is being told at the EU level, which means the Irish government is being disingenuous. I don’t know how you can say that pointing this out is apathetic.
People are sometimes just being realistic, rather than negative. This so called deal could take many forms. If we think someone is going to take away the debt from the Irish people that this government has put on it, they are being naive. Who will take on the debt? Am I being negative?
Germany Finland and the Dutch are not the EU level. They’re purely pandering to their own electorates at their domestic level. From an EU point of view, debt sharing or an agreement on the Irish debt situation makes perfect sense. We need to separate an attack on the EU from Germany or any individual state. While this was difficult when France also sang to the same hymn sheet, with France now potentially on our side I think we’ll be able to see the separation more clearly.
Ignoreland – the three Financial Ministers did not contradict the EU-agreement, in fact they reaffirmed it. So it was a reaffirmation of something that was made at the EU-level. I don’t mean to be snarky but I think you’re nitpicking when there’s no need to.
How is it nit-picking when it is not the EU that has said this? That’s a pretty big mistake you’re making It is not the EU Commission, it is not the Council of Ministers and it is not the European Court of Justice, Court of Auditors or the European Central Bank that has said this. Therefore it is not the EU. It is 3 finance ministers pandering towards their electorate.
If you read the text of the agreement, it is ambiguous. It doesn’t say whether it can be applied retrospectively or not. If it can’t then (1) why didn’t these finance ministers come out and say this sooner and (2) giving future countries more lenient conditions than those already in bailouts is simply unfair and I doubt Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy or Cyprus would go along with this. If you look at the market reaction back in June it was positive when people thought that it would be retrospective. Money talks.
We were stitched up at the start by the E C B and now we are being stitched up by our own. Whatever the German finance minister says is what happens and our gang have been been caught out in a very large lie. They might as well get on with renegotiating croke park as the promised knight in shining armour is in fact the grim reaper in disguise.
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