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AN OIREACHTAS COMMITTEE on health has heard that the potential benefits of cannabis-based treatments offers a “tantalising new horizon” for epilepsy sufferers.
A session this morning on the examination of the merits of the licensing of medical cannabinoids also heard the case of a young girl whose rate of seizures dropped dramatically when treated with a high cannabidiol (CBD) cannabis extract.
Addressing the committee was consultant neurologist at St James’s Hospital, Dr Colin Doherty, the chief executive of the Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA), Lorraine Nolan, and a parent of an epilepsy sufferer, Vera Twomey.
Vera began by passing around a photo of her daughter, Ava, who suffers from an extremely rare form of epilepsy called Dravet Syndrome.
Vera has petitioned the Minister for Health to take action on the issue, recently pledging to walk from Cork to Dublin to raise awareness for her daughter’s case. Simon Harris said he would look into the matter further, as a result.
Ava’s condition was extremely severe, often resulting in multiple seizures of all types each day.
“She has gone through eleven different forms of medication,” Vera told the committee. “All of them were unsuccessful in treating her seizures. The nature of Dravet is that it breaks through the medication.”
With Ava’s conditioning worsening, her family turned to Charlotte’s Web, described as a purer form of cannabis oil with high levels of CBD.
She had a reduction of around 80-90% in the first month, according to Vera. “She only had seven seizures in the whole month. Before, she could have had seven seizures in two hours.”
CBD has had a profound effect on Ava, but Vera is pushing for access for such treatments to be expanded upon.
“We want the very best for Ava. I have seen that this is working.
We feel like we can’t talk to our doctor. I’m sure if the doctor could prescribe it, they could be more involved. We want the Government to come forward and help us.
“Encouraging but not definitive”
Dr Doherty told the committee that there was growing evidence for the efficacy of CBD in cases of epilepsy. While some forms of CBD are available to purchase in Ireland, they are not regulated as a medicine and cannot be prescribed by a doctor.
He pointed to forms of CBD currently undergoing clinical trials in epilepsy, such as Epidiolex, which has seen one in ten patients becoming seizure free, as well as a sharp reduction in seizures for half of the people treated with it.
Around a third of epilepsy sufferers cannot control their condition, the consultant neurologist said, and “many have reached the end of the line” having tried all available treatments.
“Studies so far are encouraging but not definitive,” he said. “It won’t work for everyone, but for those that it does work for it could be life saving.”
More scientific evidence would be required before doctors became comfortable prescribing CBD if they were to be approved by regulators, he added.
Lack of evidence
The main barrier to the licensing of medicinal cannabis was described as the lack of clinical evidence of its long-term efficacy, as well as the lack of data on its long-term side effects.
The HPRA’s Lorraine Nolan told the committee that a lack of scientific evidence was the “underlying factor” as to why CBD is not yet available as a prescribed medicine.
For medicines to be be accessed by patients through their doctors, an assurance of rigorous scientific assessment must be provided. This is not yet the case for many forms of medicinal cannabis.
In other parts of the world where medicinal cannabis has been legalised, they have been “demand-led” and necessitated a “relaxation of drug laws”, Nolan said.
Doherty agreed, adding that “scientific evidence should not be open to interpretation”. If it was approved by regulators for use in patients without appropriate evidence of long-term safety, doctors may not be willing to prescribe it.
“No one wins if something is pushed through that a doctor is not comfortable prescribing,” he said.
The presence of the psychoactive THC (tetrahydrocannabinol) in many cannabis extracts is also a worry in terms of medicinal cannabis, because of its side effects.
“There are reasons to be optimistic about some anecdotal reporting of CBD effectiveness, but ones with high levels of THC should be worried about,” Doherty pointed out.
Nolan also said that the Department of Health had tasked the HPRA with reviewing the availability of authorised medicines containing cannabis and a review of the ongoing clinical research in the area. Their results are expected to be given by the end of January.
Cannabis bill
Speaking at the committee, Anti-Austerity Alliance/People Before Profit TD Gino Kenny discussed a bill to be brought before the Dáil next week, which calls for cannabis use to be permitted for sufferers of illnesses such as Multiple Sclerosis, cancer and Dravet syndrome.
“The more I get to know about this medicine, the more I’m fascinated by its medicinal purposes,” he said. “Shockingly, people are criminalised for it.
These are ordinary citizens that have been in very difficult circumstances and traditional medicine has not worked for them. They should not be stigmatised. Hopefully the bill which I will put forward will pave the way for medicinal cannabis.
Also addressing the committee was Fine Gael TD Kate O’Connell, who is a pharmacist. She indicated that many within the party are quite open to medicinal cannabis coming into effect in Ireland, and that Minister for Health, Simon Harris, was one of them. She did, however, caution against hasty action on the issue.
“I’d always be anti-quick authorisation, anti-fast tracking. We’d be giving these to children. We need to be mindful of the side effects,” she added.
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Both my husband and I am.fully vaccinated and boosted, and have never disagreed with any of the restrictions etc with covid. I totally believe in the science and have always listened to the experts in each of their fields during this pandemic. In saying all of that I will not be vaccinating my young children.
@Sally: Well said . I am the same because overall kids don’t get ill with this generally
@Sally: same here Sally.
@Maurice O Neill: not sure of the figures today but just before Christmas the 5-11 age group made up 10% of all cases in hospital
@Sally: Not much need to if Omicron infects the vaxd. Previous variants there was an argument to vax kids if it stopped the spread.
@John Black: how many got admitted WITH covid?
@John Black: Up to 22/12/21 there were only 803 total confirmed hospital cases in the 0-14 age group (1,057,427) and 1 confirmed death. R.I P.
@John Black: I’ve been following that as well John as it seems to be a trend in New York and London hospitals that rates of young children being hospitalised has increased. It would be interesting to see though have these children underlying health conditions ( not that that makes any difference as its still awful if children are getting so sick)
@Giovanni cans: very few as people admitted with covid rather than of covid are estimated to be below 5%.
Which would mean that 9.5% of all covid cases were from 5-11 year olds admitted due to covid.
@Sally: over 20% of kids are obese and that’s considered an underlying condition, then add in the other illnesses and you’ve a fair chunk of kids within the group
@Sally: At the end of the day, they will still catch covid anyway no matter what is said.
@John Black: You’re throwing out some very dodgy stats there John. Anything to prove that less than 5% of cases are admitted to hospital for other reasons? Because this varies hugely from what’s happening in the UK and US, doesn’t really make sense that it would be so different here.
@John Black: and @sally. Your stats for incident (“with” covid) must be out of date. In NY city 51% are incidental admissions. (Admitted with not for Covid) In london its 37% and rising. In Ireland we dont publish thst figure unfortunately.. so it might’ve been something you read in some scaremongering headline. Vaccinate your kids if your kids have underlying conditions, otherwise forget about it until more data is available to parents.
@DK: that’s what the HSE estimated so I can only go off of them, if you want to call it dodgy then go ask them
@cianj: out of date or I just don’t live in NY and London? I think it’s just that I don’t live in NY or London.
HSE estimated it to be under 5% so you can take it up with them.
An underlying condition people don’t often think about is obesity, which makes up a depressingly high number of kids.
@John Black: can you give us a link to where they estimated this? I don’t remember seeing it.
@DK: it was reported in the journal I think around Christmas time, thereabouts anyway
@John Black: Well the HSE said no such thing. Tony Holohan made up some stat that 5% were ‘non infectious’, whatever the hell that means because we assymptomatic people can be infectious so it can’t mean them. I think it was to confuse some simple minded people mad by your post it seems to have worked.
@DK: I mean just because you say no and it doesn’t fit your idea of things, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
So it was nothing to do with non infectious people, it was to do with people admitted to hospital for a reason other than Covid that happened to have it and that was estimated not to be 5% but to be below 5%.
You can deny it all you want, I mean I haven’t seen the data myself as it hasn’t been published but that’s just what the HSE said so I guess we’ve to take them at their word.
@Sally: the CDC published a report yesterday detailing the increased risk of developing type 1 diabetes after covid 19 in children. The virus is not benign. 166% more likely after covid 19 compared to another viral infection during pre pandemic times.
@Maurice O Neill: And passing it on to other people?
@Sally: As long as you and your family are ok- that’s the important thing
@P.S. I Hate You:
Apparently shark attacks are more likely to occur during periods of elevated ice cream consumption too
@DK: that interview was widely misinterpreted or Tony was being deliberately obtuse in his language. My understanding from.the interview was 5% of the people being treated for covid in hospital were no longer infectious but I could be wrong.
@P.S. I Hate You: 166%, that’s a big number. How likely per 100,000 cases is it with other viral infections? If its 1 in 100,000 before and now its 1.66 per 100,000 then that’s still insignificant.
@John Black: the hse never said that, you misunderstood the information given. It’s understandable as the hse are wont to couch the information they give to suit their narrative of fear.
Wife & I both fully vaxxed. There is absolutely no way we will be vaccinating our 5 year old boy. And how on earth do you discuss the pros and cons of the vaccine with a 5 year old. Has the world gone mad??!! You can’t confidently say “the pros outway he cons” when there is simply no long term study complete, especially for children. Totally depressing article!!
@Euro McPúnty: while there is more doubt surrounding risks to children, given that covid causes reduced cognitive function and increased risk of long term cardiovascular problems, I think to err on the side of caution would be go get the vaccine rather than not.
@Euro McPúnty: you don’t discuss the pro and cons with a 5 year old , it’s your job to make the decision for them . Have you not given them any other vaccines because you can’t discuss it with them?
@John Black: the risk to benefit ratio of vaccinating children is totally upside down.
@Nigel O’Connor: that’s not known at all so you don’t know much at all.
Covid has caused reduced cognitive function and long term cardiovascular problems so I think when the vaccine has been seen to be safe, the more cautious and safer route is to get the vaccine
@Des Doherty: Not according to child vaccinating expert Stephen Donnelly “it’s important to discuss the COVID-19 vaccine with your child”. I will do my bit to protect society and my family. And for me and wife we will get vaccinated but as far as protecting my family, not injecting my child/children with the vaccine is how we will be protecting them.
@Des Doherty: also, vaccines he has received so far have been proven over many many years, this one hasn’t – it’s very simple.
@Euro McPúnty: this one was much more heavily tested and regulated and proven when it was released than any other vaccines he would have received
@John Black: all the vaccines my son has currently taken has been around for decades and the short and long term effects are known and changes have been made to the vaccine since they were created to make them even safer. There is a massive difference between them and the covid vaccines which stills aren’t a year old.
@Roy Dowling: the covid vaccines are over a year and a half old from their human trials and over year old from the approval, so your information isn’t correct.
When the vaccines your son had were released they were much more of an unknown than the covid vaccines and weren’t tested even a fraction as much.
@Euro McPúnty: you might want to check that. Some vaccines have been added to the schedule in recent years and are not around that long. The rotavirus vaccine for example.
@John Black: sorry I was out by a month. First COVID vaccine given world wide was on December 8th 2020.So I was out by a month. Also if you check my post you’ll see I never mentioned the testing stage of any vaccine I mentioned how long they’ve been in existence. Decades of use of those vaccines has shown how safe they are and how they’ve changed since they’re original conception. You may trust a vaccine that was rushed into existence on your child/children but I don’t.
@John Black: http://www.vigiaccess.org/
Type in Covid-19 vaccine.. Mr facts.
@xDemo17: type in paracetamol… Mr facts.
@Euro McPúnty: same here
@Sara McS:
Wrong: The initial rota virus vaccine was recalled in 1999 after 15 cases of intussusception (i.e., a bowel obstruction in which one segment of bowel becomes enfolded within another segment)
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5334a3.htm
Btw, I bet you wouldn’t give your kid a swine flu vaccine (knowing what we know now), or maybe you would as you seem to be a vaccine ideologue
@Alison Maguire:
There’s no mandates or societal coercion to take paracetamol.
And if there was and you had to take it under duress, as it’s not classified as a biologic you would have some recourse to the manufacturer for damages
@John Black: reduced cognitive function and cardiovascular disease? In how many cases in ireland? How long do these things last? We don’t know anything of ye sort, you read somewhere that this can happen but you haven’t a clue of the absolute risk of it have you? All of the kids thar I know that have got covid have made full recoveries and had very little symptoms.
@John Black: the UK government hired a team of scientists to tell them whether or not vaccinating children was a good idea. And guess what? The scientists said “no, as the risk with vaccination out weighed the benefits” but the UK government over rode this advice. That was enough for me not to vaccinate the kids. I’m listening to the science and making an informed decision. Mine all had covid and I can assure you there is no cognitive decline nor heart problems. Unlike the many young males suffering long term myocarditis after the vaccine.
I am fully vaxed, my wife is fully vaxed and has recovered from Covid in early 2021. My 10yr old son tested positive for Covid last week. Mild symptoms….No one else in the house got sick.. We will NOT be vaxing our two kids for Covid… not now not ever.
@John Flynn: fair enough but if you’re child was sick in hospital for whatever reason and the Dr’s were administering all sorts of drugs, would you see what the Facebook experts have to say before letting them so their job?
I don’t get why this vaccine is the hill people want to die on.
We vaccininate children against all sorts of things already and medicate them with all sorts when necessary.
We don’t know what Covid may do to a child over time.
As the lesser risky choice, I’d rather trust the science than trust Facebook or a virus.
@Fozz: Sure the science has proved correct so far!(eg. 100% protection once vaccinated ect)
@John Devine: well if you followed the science instead of getting information from Facebook you’d know that not a single vaccine has claimed 100% protection from infection
@Fozz: Nothing what so ever to do with Facebook.
@Fozz: I seriously doubt your logic. It is even hard to get the logic of the the apostrophe in English grammar.
In past 14 days 0.25% children were hospitalised with none going to ICU and none deceased.
So there’s no need to get unnecessary drugs in the child.
The aim here is to get as close to zero as possible any drugs in one’s child.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/apostrophe
@John Devine: “Sure the science has proved correct so far!(eg. 100% protection once vaccinated ect)”
Sorry but that statement is not true. It’s a lie and very misleading. This virus is killing mainly older people in their 80s. I would say with 90% confidence that the elderly people who have died since the vaccines were all double vaccinated and had a weak immune system. I could get you the names of 10 of them right away. There is no guarantee of protection from the vaccines ie why do we need the boosters!! I haven’t even gone in to all the people who have gotten serious injuries from the vaccine and some who have ended up dying from the vaccine.
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: i think he was being sarcastic, to be fair.
@John Black: how presumptuous & patronising for you too assume that people are getting their information from Facebook…lazy lazy stereotype
@Hear me now: where else would he get the information that vaccines were reported to give 100% protection? It wasn’t anywhere reputable anyway.
It’s not really a lazy stereotype, as every anti-vaxx person has got their information from dodgy sources. If they got their information from reputable sources they wouldn’t have the opinion that they do as their opinion is at odds with the facts.
@Fred spins kdb: It wasn’t obvious!!!
@Fozz:
Sounds like your the type that would have trusted the science™ around the swine flu vaccination too
@John Black: Here’s the thing, I was following the sience until it started changing things to suit itself.
This article is absolutely dis-gusting!
I think what is important to understand if someone’s child has heart issues after taking this vaccine, no one in the Irish government or medical system will EVER accept responsibility.
@Dav Nagle:
Great fearmongering there…
Keep raising the doubt on a perfectly safe vaccine… Feel proud that you can get parents worried instead of using common sense..
@Dav Nagle: did you know you’re much more likely to develop heart issues from covid than the vaccine? If you’re so worried about heart issues then surely you’re urging everyone to get the vaccine to protect them from these heart issues.
@John Black: it’s not an either or. You are choosing to give something to a kid that could give them heart issues or taking a chance on them getting covid and not developing heart issues or guess what maybe even not getting covid and definitely not getting heart issues from it. Just because you don’t give your kid a vaccine doesn’t mean they are 100% likely to get covid.
Tough call for parents in fairness.
@2thFairy: No, it’s very easy. Get vaxxed.
@Sean O’Doherty: have a listen to Joe Rogan with Dr. Robert Malone and decide then. Even if you’ve heard stories about him it’s good to hear his side of the story. Probably the most knowledgable man in the world when it comes to these vaccines.
@Nigel O’Connor: probably not.
@Nigel O’Connor: Robert Malone has been widely criticized for spreading misinformation and misleading people, so forgive me if I don’t believe he’s the most knowledgeable man in the world when it comes to vaccines.
Also if you’re getting your scientific information from the Joe Rogan podcast you should really start looking at more reputable sources.
@Nigel O’Connor: No, he’s not at all. He tried to announce himself as the inventor of mRNA vaccines a. D was forced to retract that as its untrue.
He has now been widely discredited by the scientific world at large and only gets a platform on Joe Rogans echo chamber plus YouTube channels of shady origin.
@2thFairy: yeah very hard to know whether to follow the advise of the medical professionals or Susan on Facebook who’s got loads of research done but was never great at doing homework in school
@John Black: have a listen to his side or the story and come back to me. Without listening to his side you are just believing other people whose interest it is to silence him.
@Lee King Buckett: Listen to the podcast and then decide. Guess who are the people who are trying to silence him? Just listen to the podcast.
@John Black: yeah but he has a neatly trimmed beard and a good radio voice! That proves it. There is no doubt he knows his stuff to an extent but he has been shown to have exaggerated his role in the creation of mRNA vaccines, or at least letting the media figures that have latched onto him to do so. Preferred Joe Rogan before he carved out his niche of pandering to the easily led.
@Nigel O’Connor: I’ve heard what he’s said before, just not on that podcast and he lies more than a politician, he makes so many misleading claims that he’s either a simpleton that knows very little or has an ulterior motive.
The people whose interest is to silence him is the majority of the scientific community, it’s the people who want this pandemic to end and to keep people alive
@2thFairy: I don’t see how this is a tough call. Unless the child has health problems or parents are at risk then is simple NO.
Parents need to raise the child, sort of “put your mask first” in an airplane. Otherwise child would be a priority even over parents.
Children have already high immunity against this virus. I won’t take the argument that vaxxing children will stop the spread.
This virus if child is not vaxxed will stay for a week. But if vaxxed, then it will only stay for 7 days.
@Nigel O’Connor: absolute nonsense. the path to mRNA vaccines drew on the work of hundreds of researchers over more than 30 years. Things have moved on greatly since 1987 when Malone mixed strands of messenger RNA with droplets of fat. He is not the most knowledgeable man in the world when it comes to these vaccines at all. It’s like asking the Wright brothers to fly an airbus a380 and assuming they wld know. Nonsense
@P.S. I Hate You: you’re giving him too much credit by comparing him to the Wright brothers. Their plane drew more similarity to an Airbus than Malone’s work did to the mRNA vaccines.
@P.S. I Hate You: listen to the podcast.
@Nigel O’Connor: Why would you confine your info to one doctor? Surely you should listen to a spread of experts and see where they agree?
@Nigel O’Connor: biggest lol of the week for that comment…wondering if its satire ????
@Nigel O’Connor: I have.
@John Black: my bad.
@2thFairy:
Not really…
Vaccine tested and gone into billions of arms with very little to no risk…
COVID untested, killed millions and unknown consequences…
The stats are simple, don’t let irrational fear take over common sense… Vaccine is sensible and safe…
@Nigel O’Connor: everything about RM is self proclaimed! These people are so dangerous.
This is a light touch, enjoyable read by a reputable health care professional.
@Colin Conlan: Where can I confirm the week/7 days virus life in a child whether vaxinated or not?
@Nigel O’Connor: that is the funniest thing i’ve heard in a very long time
@Nigel O’Connor: Do you work for Joe Rogan or what
@Jacko: yes I do. You caught me out.
@Nigel O’Connor: “listen to the other side or else you are just listening those who’s interest it is to disagree with him” Nigel, your lack of immunity to logic fallacies and ig norance to the scientific method is on full display here.
@Julie Lynch: Ouch
It’s just push push push this vaccine, now targeting 5-11year olds even after all the swine flu vaccine drama, never an article about the cons of this, just 8 on Djokovic in the last 48 hours. Oh and not to forget they fact check the future here now on the journal lol, slowly turning into a rag.
@xDemo17: or maybe antivaxxers can’t accept their view being wrong and in a minority so they whinge on sites like this?
@xDemo17: it’s over. You’re in the tiny minority who have fallen on the wrong side of science and data. Most people will continue to believe their GP before some fruit ball online…it must hurt to have invested so much.
@Paul Cunningham:
Reminder: the advice given by the JCVI (the UK’s equivalent of NIAC) was overruled by politicians and bureaucrats:
“Until more data become available, JCVI does not currently advise routine universal vaccination of children and young people less than 18yrs of age. JCVI will keep this advice under review as more safety and effectiveness information become available on the use of COVID-19 vaccines in children & young people.
The health benefits in this population are small, and the benefits to the wider population are highly uncertain. At this time, JCVI is of the view that the health benefits of universal vaccination in children & young people below the age of 18yrs do not outweigh the potential risks.”
Only 1 in 4 kids this will get the Vaccine. Parents will not be blindsided here
@Maurice O Neill:
Really shows the power of misinformation…
@Maurice O Neill: Amazed to hear you can predict the actions of so many people. Any chance of the winning lottery numbers for tonight?
@Cowboy Paddy:
@Paul Cunningham:
Reminder: the advice given by the JCVI (the UK’s equivalent of NIAC) was overruled by politicians and bureaucrats:
“Until more data become available, JCVI does not currently advise routine universal vaccination of children and young people less than 18yrs of age. JCVI will keep this advice under review as more safety and effectiveness information become available on the use of COVID-19 vaccines in children & young people.
The health benefits in this population are small, and the benefits to the wider population are highly uncertain. At this time, JCVI is of the view that the health benefits of universal vaccination in children & young people below the age of 18yrs do not outweigh the potential risks.”
Medical science has practically eliminated polio, tetanus, diphtheria along with others. People trusted medical science at one time, now they only trust it when they’ve done their ‘research’ on the loo. This isn’t just about vaccines, I spoke to a consultant years ago. He told me a story about a guy that was diagnosed with prostate cancer, the outlook was very good with immediate treatment. However this person opted for herbal treatment due to his research and family reassurances. He is no longer with us. Before anyone says it’s not the same thing, it is. People are unwilling to listen to the experts in science but instead listen to those that spread fear and misinformation. Please just listen to the experts.
@Maximus_Demonus #FBPE: Sure look what happened to Steve Jobs!
@Brian Guilfoyle: mad juice diet wasnt it? All the money in the world too. Obviously thought because he was highly successful in one area he knew best.
@Maximus_Demonus #FBPE:
Did you take the swine flu vaccine with that kind of myopic attitude also?
@Maximus_Demonus #FBPE:
Dr. John Abramson, Harvard Medical School Lecturer & National Drug Litigation Expert:
“The primary function of the drug companies is to make money for their investors. We’ve got to get over the illusion that their purpose is to serve our health.”
@Credalytics ☘️: you know a quote from some random expert doesnt qualify as evidence, yeah?
@james spice:
Lol
Got read up on him.
No thanks
The kids are allright thanks very much.
@Chris Martin: True, the government said from the start this will only effect the elderly and that children where the safest, and that’s why I’m not getting my child vaccinated
Mine got first dose yesterday, delighted
@C.J Captain:
Hope and pray you don’t regret that decision.
I guess you would have gotten you kid vaccinated against the swine flu too given half a chance.
People who trust the Science™ over innate common sense and logical thinking are in for a hell of a wake up call.
@Credalytics ☘️: Captain “Delete’ in action…
Just read a comment saying ” this is absolutely disgusting ” .. Wait, what?
We are in the middle of a global pandemic, the likes not seen before in many years. The onus is on every citizen, young and old, to get vaccinated and in turn hopefully overcome this virus. It seems if you in anyway shape or form suggest getting the vaccinations you are quickly shot down by ” anti vacs ” Right away. Yet, when asked what they think should be done they can offer no real viable alternative. What should we do? Stop the vaccinations, open everything up again and let hundreds of thousands get sick every week? That would seem to be their solution. Sure it’s all a myth anyway isn’t it?
@Sean Kelly: Great rant, you convinced me.
@Sean Kelly: Vaccines don’t prevent hundreds of thousands getting sick every week though does it. The vaccine is designed to help your body fight the infection so you don’t get sick enough to need hospitalisation. For the vast majority of 5 to 11 they show very little symptoms if any. My 7 year old had absolutely no symptoms when we all had it back in August. So he won’t be getting the vaccine.
@John: Great! Book yourself in so !
@Sean Kelly: how many kids have you got?
@xDemo17: Does it matter? Seriously. If you wholeheartedly convince me as to why you need to know then yes, I’ll answer. Otherwise, it’s of completely no relevance how many children I have.
@Roy Dowling: Vast majority being the key words. So for example out of every 20 children that get it 1 might be in a bad way. Why take that risk?
@Sean Kelly: My son had COVID. Only reason we know he had covid was because he got tested when my wife and I were tested and all 3 of us tested positive. He has no symptoms there was absolutely nothing wrong with him. There is very little risk to him. So I won’t be giving him the vaccine. I won’t judge parents for the choice either. It’s up to them to do what they feel is best for their child/children.
@Sean Kelly: so you don’t have kids then.
@Roy Dowling:
It does prevent children getting it and also fighting it…
Could you point to the study that shows the long term effects of COVID in children? This is irrational fearmongering winning…
@Cowboy Paddy: Could you point me to a study that’s shows the long term effects this vaccine could have in say a decades time?. Could you also show me the study which shows me where the vaccine DOES indeed prevent children getting COVID? Everyone I know who currently tested positive for COVID has been fully vaccinated and it didn’t prevent them getting it so I know please stop spreading lies. The vaccine does not prevent any one getting it
@xDemo17: just because he wishes to keep his private life off the Internet doesn’t mean he hasn’t got kids. Not everyone feels the urge to plaster their private life all over the place.
@Cowboy Paddy:
Lol, and there’s you looking for a long term study.
The irony is delicious
@Credalytics ☘️: I love your description of the irony “delicious” best sentence I’ve read all day, thanks for the chuckle
@Sean Kelly: where did you get those odds?
There’s going to be some very uncomfortable family conversations in years to come among those who suffer long term effects of this virus with parents who got themselves vaccinated but denied the same protection to their child.
@Rochelle: worse still, failed to reduce the risk of children acquiring it and passing it on to granny and grandad.
@Rochelle: I doubt that. But can the same be said for a child that ended up with a serious heart condition from the vaccine?? This virus is a danger to the elderly not to the young people.
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: Parents of young children are not elderly, if they’ve weighed up the risks and benefits of the vaccine and decided for the protection for themselves then it’s certainly going to be a difficult explanation as to why they didn’t do the same for their child.
@Rochelle: from a doctor
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CYcJwfPITcO/?utm_medium=share_sheet
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: where are all these children with serious heart “complaints” from the vaccine? By your statement there must be millions all over the world at this stage…
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: you’re much more likely to get a heart problem from covid than the vaccine, if you want to lower the risk of them getting heart problems you’d get them vaccinated
@Damo: where are all the ill or sick children from covid?
@John Black: “you’re much more likely to get a heart problem from covid than the vaccine” can you provide evidence to the statement which is your opinion. You may have heard it from someone else, again if they used the word likely like you did. it is again an opinion and not a matter of fact. Lets deal with facts and not opinions.
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-real-risk-of-heart-inflammation-to-kids-is-from-covid-19not-the-vaccine
COVID gives Children heart conditions not the vaccine…
We don’t know the danger to young people… You are just guessing it is no danger…
@xDemo17: All around us…
Judging by your ability to make a coherent argument I’d actually imagine that you’re one of them….
@Cowboy Paddy: There are loads of Children in Ireland with underlying conditions and I’d guess that they have a higher risk of ending up in hospital with Covid. They 100% should be vaccinated. No Question regardless of age.
However a perfectly healthy child’s risk of illness from Covid is even lower. Bear in mind Covid tore through all the kids in Ireland as the spreading before christmas was in the primary schools. I don’t know of any kid in any of the local schools who was even admitted to hospital. Now if I give my health child the vaccine there is a 1 in 10000 chance of them having a heart issue from the vaccine especially boys. This is a fact, Japan have put this warning on the vaccines info. This is a risk I’m not willing to take with my kids. The chances of them getting sick even from covid is less than that.
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: no you use the word likely because it has a greater probability, it doesn’t definitely give it to you or definitely not.
One person can get the vaccine and get heart problems and a person catch covid and not get heart problems. But if you take a large sample size you get the overall probability and that shows us that you are more likely to develop heart problems from covid rather than the vaccine.
If you want to deal with facts I suggest you start reading more facts as opposed to anti-vaxx tripe saying vaccines cause heart problems when they actually reduce the likelihood compared to catching covid.
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: there is a higher risk of them having a heart issue if you let them catch covid unprotected so if you’re not vaccinating your kids you’re obviously not that worried about heart issues at increased likelihood than that of the vaccine
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: these vaccines are approved for all children over 5. So to clarify, you’re the one deciding that the risk of vaccine side effects exceeds the risk from covid… that’s despite healthcare professionals saying the opposite. A vaccine can’t be approved without a proven medical need…
… it’s totally your decision but realise that you chosen to believe a conspiracy theory…
@Rochelle:
Experience would suggest otherwise.
Got ask the families going through the night court to this day who are taking the State to task for recklessly endangering their children due to the administration of a poorly tested and dangerous swine flu vaccine that was later recalled due to its poor safety profile
@Cowboy Paddy:
The CSO has Published its latest Report on the 17th December 2021
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcasesseries38/
Table 2 & 2A Weekly Profile of COVID-19 Confirmed Deaths:
Deaths 618 – that is the CSO figure)
0-14 years 0 – ZERO
15-24 years 0 – ZERO
24-44 years 0 – ZERO
45-64 years 95 (14.87%) – as a % of “cases” = 0.04%
65-79 years 242 (37.87%) – as a % of “cases” = 0.09%
80+ years 281 (43.97%) – as a % of “cases” = 0.11%
Of these 618 deaths, 65% were in those who were “vaccinated” and 15% in those who were not – of those deaths almost 60% had a UMC (Underlying medical condition)
@John Black:
HPRA (Health Products Regulatory Authority) in Ireland is reporting that:
16,313 people have reported a case of injury following a Covid-19 injection. These people have reported on average more than 4 injuries each (a total of 70,590).
In addition, 94 deaths are currently reported by the HPRA along with 371 heart disorders.
HPRA expect their next report to be issued on 20th January 2022
Link to the Report (30th November 2021): http://www.hpra.ie/docs/default-source/default-document-library/safety-update-covid-19-vaccines-overview-of-national-reporting-experience-(09122021).pdf?sfvrsn=0
@Credalytics ☘️: there isn’t one single report of an injury in that document. “Vaccine injury” is the latest fruitball term from your crowd. You’ve lost, your in a tiny minority. The vast majority of any age will soon be vaccinated following science and data.
You follow grifters on YouTube…
@Damo:
Lol, I provided a link to the HPRA and you accuse me of getting my info from YouTube
You’re hilarious.
@Damo: You do realise that the vaccines were given emergency use authorisation. Meaning all it took for these vaccines to be pulled was to find a treatment for Covid. Which was never found nor is anyone actually looking for one. The vaccines were developed in a year and none of the long term studies were done. This is a fact. We today do not know what the long term effects will be. Does this not concern you? The other vaccines have had 5 + years testing… Covid vaccines are a live experiment. If people run into trouble with them. None of the manufacturers are on the hook for any problems. Its a very profitable business. They have no development costs, paid for by the government and zero marketing costs…. just pure profit..
@Cowboy Paddy: “What most pediatric cardiologists agree on is that cardiac complications seen with MIS-C are more serious than the myocarditis seen from the vaccine.”
“Most” says it all really. When you get a fluff piece with stats like 1:4 kids that die from covid have no underlying conditions you know it’s complete propaganda. Since when has dying from covid been a big risk factor? If these articles can’t be written from an Impartial stand point without a sensationalist scaremongering agenda then how can they be taken seriously?
@Credalytics ☘️: find the term “injury” or “vaccine injury” in that report. You won’t. Providing a warped take on factual reports and studies is straight out of the fruitball playbook…its over, most people are already vaccinated. It’s only the loons, like yourself, left watching YouTube grifters.
@Diarmuid O’Braonáin: you’ve fallen for horse manure and I can’t possibly…best of luck
People who don’t get children vaccinated need their head examined
@billy bound: its actually the opposite
@billy bound: you just keep taking your jabs like a pin cushion for the hse. See how long you last I can see it already affected your brain !
@LadyBMW: covid has been shown to reduce cognitive function whereas the vaccine has shown no impairments on cognitive function so far.
So perhaps it may be your brain affected?
@John Black: your attacks on people for having their own opinions and wanting to protect their children is disgraceful. You don’t have all the answers, nobody does
@John Black: at least you had the sense to say “so far”. It’s only been rolled out a few weeks. No child’s future should be interfered with an experimental vaccine that side effects are simply not known. Kids get covid showing little to no symptoms because they are resilient, like water off a ducks back! The only reason the schools aren’t being closed is to cause panic and force/trick parents to vaccinate their children but thankfully most parents know right from wrong.
@Hugh Morris: it wasn’t an attack, rather a defence of the person she attacked…
@LadyBMW: so you can declare covid safe for kids with no long term studies but deem the vaccine unsafe?
The vaccines has been studied in humans for a year and a half without any worrying long term effects, covid on the other hand has shown reduced cognitive function (which is particularly concerning in a developing brain), increased risk of heart problems and increased risk of type 1 diabetes.
@John Black: “so perhaps it may be your brain affected” how is that not a personal attack. She was arguing a valid point without petty insults. The person she was conversing with didn’t need your defence
@Hugh Morris: if you actually read her comment you would see she wasn’t arguing a valid point as she said the vaccine was already affecting the guys brain, so she started the petty insults, I just threw an evidence based petty insult back. If people don’t start using insults, neither do I.
@John Black: youve been on this article all day replying to almost every person with a different opinion than you!! What’s your deal man.
@Euro McPúnty: I dislike misinformation and like people to make informed choices.
I have no problem with people with a different opinion, it’s when they start using reasoning based on misinformation that is the problem.
@John Black: the state of its twitter feed will tell you all you need to know
@LadyBMW:
So if your parent’s decided to give you no vaccines from when you were a baby.. Let’s see how long you would have lasted. No Facebook around then you see.
@billy bound:
Reminder: the advice given by the JCVI (UK’s equivalent of NIAC) was overruled by politicians and bureaucrats:
“Until more data become available, JCVI does not currently advise routine universal vaccination of children and young people less than 18yrs of age. JCVI will keep this advice under review as more safety and effectiveness information become available on the use of COVID-19 vaccines in children & young people.
The health benefits in this population are small, and the benefits to the wider population are highly uncertain. At this time, JCVI is of the view that the health benefits of universal vaccination in children & young people below the age of 18yrs do not outweigh the potential risks.”
@John Black: all you have proved is that your argumentative and you’d probably start a fight with your own shadow! I feel sorry for you that you seem to take the comments so personally! Maybe it’s time you took some time off the journal. Give yourself headspace or take another jab ! Hugh Morris and McPunty are a breath of fresh air !
@LadyBMW: it’s not a fight nor an argument at all and I’ve taken nothing personally, I was just standing up for someone after you attacked someone with no provocation, says a lot about you. Maybe you should take some time of the journal so you don’t go attacking strangers on the internet.
@billy bound: firstly I’m not on Facebook and secondly the vaccines we took when we were babies have been around for 30/50 years and are protein based. Big difference to what’s in the “vaccine” now. And we got them once not every 2/3 months like this one. Hope that explains it in more layman’s terms for you
@John Black: ah god love you. I’ve really ruffled your feathers haven’t I !!
@LadyBMW: not my feathers at all, I was defending someone else, but do continue to lead your misinformed life
Fail to see the logic of parents getting vaccinated themselves but then pointedly NOT getting their children vaccinated. Makes no sense whatsoever- surely you either trust the science behind vaccination or you don’t. Our eight-year-old got her first shot yesterday + her younger brother will be getting his immediately on turning five in March.
@Pat O’Leary: most got vaccinated on the premise it would save older people as it would prevent onward infection and once we hit 70/80% infected/vaccinated we’d have herd immunity and our lives back. I doubt you’ll see as big a take up of the vaccine in the next round.
As for kids, I’ll vaccinate my kids against things that could kill them. Covid isn’t one of them. In all other instances I’d rather not use medication at all if possible
Registered my 2 for vaccination, I’ll ignore Dr Facebook and the so called do your own research experts.
@DJ François:
@John Black:
HPRA (Health Products Regulatory Authority) in Ireland is reporting that:
16,313 people have reported a case of injury following a Covid-19 injection. These people have reported on average more than 4 injuries each (a total of 70,590).
In addition, 94 deaths are currently reported by the HPRA along with 371 heart disorders.
HPRA expect their next report to be issued on 20th January 2022
Just because information like this might get posted on Facebook doesn’t make it any less true.
Link to the Report (30th November 2021): http://www.hpra.ie/docs/default-source/default-document-library/safety-update-covid-19-vaccines-overview-of-national-reporting-experience-(09122021).pdf?sfvrsn=0
@Credalytics ☘️: that’s crazy, it’s almost like all those numbers are lower than that of those who contracted covid, almost like the vaccine is safer and beneficial
@John Black:
I have to laugh when people talk about science like it’s a religion yet they can’t even think beyond a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
@Credalytics ☘️: I think and think freely rather than those within the anti science echo chamber that ignores all reason such as yourself
@John Black:
Sick to tabloid journalism John, you know deep down that’s what forms your opinions rather than objective science.
@Credalytics ☘️: objective science forms my opinions, not some quacks online like yourself
Disgusting now they are coming after our kids
@Kevin Beattie:
It’s a disgrace, horrible health industry trying to keep us healthy.
@Kevin Beattie: yes Kevin “they” … You need a reset…
I had covid last year and have never been that sick. No previous health issues. Stopped breathing a couple of times and am suffering long term effects. I had my child vaxxed today for 1 simple reason, I would not want him to ever be that sick from covid.
As for those who choose not to get vaxxed that is on you if you get that sick or someone close to you. Your choice.
And for those who believe the worst has passed variant wise, my neighbour suffered the same as me a couple of months back and is now vaccinated for the same reason, to not pass it on to another.
@Ricorico:
Need more comments of this type on here.
@Ricorico: so getting vaccinated prevents onward transmission of the virus now? Is this a new vaccine or is it only the 350k or so unvaccinated people that are responsible for the circa 40k cases per day we are getting at the minute?
@Anthony Guinnessy: what if this wasn’t covid, what if we were dealing with say meningitis. Would you and yours get vaxxed or just let it run its course based on you tube and Facebook science?
What if noone globally got the vax, what’s the acceptable number of deaths you’re willing to take? Presumably not you or yours in there, just fine for everyone else.
@Ricorico: You see the difference here is mengitis kills kids. Can you see the difference between that and something that gives kids symptoms which are less severe than flu? If you can’t then I’m afraid you’ve been brainwashed by the fear propaganda and are a lost cause.
Did your child get baptised?
Did the child have a choice in that if so?
@billy bound: soooo…are you referring to the religious implications of baptism or comparing a wee drop of water to a vaccine still in its infancy? Pun intended!
@Hear me now:
It’s the choice, children don’t have it either way. Brainwashing by religious nuts.
Anyone remember the aliens from Coneheads.
I just looked at the HSE website and although I am x3 jabs along with Wife and eldesr kids are x2, I won’t be vacination for my youngest.
This has nothing to do with the jab but the ridiculous logistics. I live near Athenry and my Jabs were in the Vacination Centre in Athlone! I got the booster at the GP before Christmas and yesterday got an invite for my booster at Moate!
“According to their crap records” I hadn’t the booster apparently. I have non issue with the science, just the 2.5 hours per child One of ys woukd need to be out of work per dose plus 100mile of Diesel & Tolls which would be around €20 at a guess. They need to vacinate at the schools, this is absurd. What about those that dont drive? Before sineine chips in, nearesr Public Transport is 8mile away.
@Bunny Johnson:
@Bunny Johnson: Ah, poor, poor you.
@Bunny Johnson: I’m sure there are GPs or pharmacies in Athenry who can arrange one?
Pretty obvious here paeple care about themselves and their families. I got vaxinated so I wouldn’t pass it on to someone in poor health.
@Great White Hope: so getting vaccinated prevents onward transmission of the virus now? Is this a new vaccine or is it only the 350k or so unvaccinated people that are responsible for the circa 40k cases per day we are getting at the minute?
To be contraversial.. Imagine it was a illness that mostly killed the younger generations, kids and babies but was spread through the older folks who believed they weren’t in danger at all.. And the young were completely dependent on the old getting the vaccine… Hmm.. I think I cud get a screen play from this..
@Togs: but it isn’t mainly spread by children. It’s mainly spread by the 18-45 groups, children then inadvertently pick it up. I don’t see too many 5yr olds out in bars, house parties, at the office etc..
My healthy little nephew aged 4 spent the last week in and out of Crumlin with Covid, while his big sister sailed on with a sniffly nose. Truth is you just don’t know how it will play out. My own kid is getting hers tomorrow. Much rather take my chance with the vaccine than the virus, especially considering the figures at the moment .
@Lucy Legacy: did he happen to bump into any other kids in there with rare conditions or relatively common conditions with rare complications that put them in there? I know that’s what the place was full of when I was there years ago (they really do fantastic work in there and I’ve been glad to be involved in fundraising events for them over the years). Key word in my post is rare, it’s very rare kids need hospital treatment because of covid.
My healthy little nephew aged 4 spent the last week in and out of Crumlin with Covid- while his big sister sailed on with a sniffly nose. Truth is you just don’t know how it will play out. My own kid is getting hers tomorrow. Much rather take my chance with the vaccine than the virus- especially considering the figures at the moment .
Good on you. Hope your don’t get sick off it
have your say