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AS PART OF our GE16 FactCheck series, we’re testing the truth of claims made by candidates and parties on the campaign trail.
If you hear something that doesn’t sound quite right, or see a claim that looks great, but you want to confirm it, email factcheck@thejournal.ie.
The campaign officially began on Wednesday, and the parties had plenty to say about themselves and each other, so let’s start there.
Claim: 300,000 jobs were lost under Fianna Fáil, 135,000 were gained under Fine Gael – Fine Gael
Verdict: Can’t be verified, and relies on data that shouldn’t be used to measure job gains.
What was said:
Fine Gael / TwitterOur policies have helped businesses add 135,000 jobs since 2012 & cut unemployment rate from 15% to 8.8% #thisweek pic.twitter.com/6Lk4xR8mka
— Fine Gael (@FineGael) January 24, 2016
On its website, Fine Gael states:
“Over 135,000 extra jobs have been created since the Action Plan for Jobs began in 2012.”
Peter Heylin in Meath-West emailed factcheck@thejournal.ie, when his eye was caught by the jobs claims being made on the Fine Gael Twitter account.
The Facts:
The CSO, using figures provided by Revenue, measures job gains (the difference between job creation and destruction) using “job churn” – a comparison of the number of hirings and separations (redundancies, etc…) in a given year.
The final three years of the last Fianna Fáil-led government were 2008-2010. The 2011 election took place on 25 February, which means that although there was some overlap between administrations, Fine Gael and Labour were in office for nine months that year.
From 2009 to 2011, the CSO recorded net job losses of 619,431, but it’s important to note that job losses recorded in one year, actually took place the previous year.
So it is more accurate to say that, from the beginning of 2008 to the end of 2010, the Fianna Fáil-led government were in place during a period when net job losses were 449,774.
The Fine Gael-led government took office in March 2011, and the CSO does not yet have job creation figures recorded in 2014.
Net job creation in 2011 (recorded in 2012) was 8,458. However, the Action Plan for Jobs was launched in February 2012.
This means that, using the CSO’s preferred measure, the only official figure available for the period defined by Fine Gael in its own claims, is a net loss of jobs to the tune of 13,368.
However, Fine Gael confirmed to TheJournal.ie that they had used a different measure to arrive at the claim that there had been “135,000 new jobs” since they launched the action plan for jobs, in February 2012.
In Fine Gael’s statements and slogans, there is some conflation of job creation and employment levels, which are two distinct measures.
In some instances, it has been claimed that 135,000 “new jobs were created,” and in others, that “135,000 more people are going to work.”
Fine Gael / TwitterOver 135,000 more people are going to work. More and better jobs are at the heart of our Long Term Economic Plan. pic.twitter.com/Crto1BAVmz
— Fine Gael (@FineGael) February 5, 2016
Using the CSO’s Quarterly National Household Survey (QNHS), and extracting the seasonally-adjusted number of people employed, we find that in the first quarter of 2008 (the first of Fianna Fáil’s last three years in government), there were 2,160,600 people aged over 15 in employment.
In the first quarter of 2011, that figure was 1,854,300 – which is 306,300 lower, and is the source of Fine Gael’s first claim.
In the first quarter of 2012 (when the Action Plan for Jobs was launched), there were 1,837,600 people over the age of 15 employed.
In the third quarter of 2015 (the most recent data available), that figure was 1,973,400 – which means a net gain of 135,800 people in employment, the source of Fine Gael’s second claim.
This validates Fine Gael’s contention that: “Over 135,000 more people are going to work since we launched our Action Plan for Jobs” (emphasis added).
However, claims about job gains (the difference between creation and destruction) should not be made using the QNHS, and should be measured by the CSO’s preferred method, the “job churn” figures, which can be found here.
Brian Ring, Senior Statistician in the CSO’s Labour Market Division, offered his expert evaluation of using the QNHS, as Fine Gael did:
The QNHS does not measure job creation. It measures the stock of persons in the labour force at a given point in time.
If you compare one date with an earlier date, and find that 135,800 additional persons are in employment at the second date, he says, you cannot make any conclusion about the number of jobs created or lost during the period of time in between.
The labour market is dynamic – people move in and out of jobs, jobs are created and lost, and people retire.
If two million people are in employment at one point, and two million are in employment at a later point, Ring says, “that’s not necessarily the same two million people or the same two million jobs.”
Furthermore, the QNHS dataset used by Fine Gael does not take into account the quality of jobs held by those persons – whether full-time, part-time, permanent or temporary.
Finally, the 135,800 increase in the number of people employed does not in itself prove that it was caused by the Action Plan for Jobs, only that it occurred after the plan was launched.
After this article was published, Fine Gael contacted TheJournal.ie to say that their figures were based on “The number of people who had jobs in Q1 2012 compared to number of people who have jobs now.”
They added: “The only way that the in-employment figure can increase is when somebody who does not have a job in Ireland, gets a job in Ireland.”
If you see a claim you want checked, email factcheck@thejournal.ie
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I always remember the year that numbers of people on the register were down, so FG claimed a win, but numbers of people in employment were also down.
Less people on the dole, but less people working???
Emigration and schemes like Jobsbridge have done more for FG/Labour’s employment statistics than any job creation programs have.
O dear FG Liebour not getting of to a good start with figures.
This is the dumbest article I have read on this site. 135,000 more people are at work, but we can’t say that there are 135,000 more jobs?? WTF are the extra 135,000 people doing?
This article is too long to read. It needs a tl;dr at the end for those of us who want a one line answer
It’s the ballot box figures we are most interested in…..everything else is irrelevant.
Unemployment figures are not irrelevant.
I just said unemployment wasn’t irrelevant and I got a dislike for that. Seriously, what is wrong with people in this country nowadays!
Yet exchequer tax take from income is significantly up, even though the current govt reduced taxes on income?? There must be someone paying all this tax!
Brinster ,quite a lot are actually are involved in courses,some are on jobsbridge ce schemes etc,
and believe it or not quite a few are on short-term contracts.Here in Newcastlewest Co Limerick what was our biggest employer “Pallas Foods” now has thirty of it’s warehouse staff on a three day week ,and that is on top of the redundencies of last year and NO new jobs coming into this area .So I would dearly love to know where all the “new” jobs are been created.I defer back to you for info ,Thank you.
135,000 people might be working an average of 10 hours a week on zero hours contracts, see? That’s more like 35,000 extra jobs, spread over 135,000 people.
This is an excellent article picking apart the government’s claims. They’re not quite lying, but not quite telling the truth either.
Now, about that fiscal space …
@Uncle Denise. Please don’t vote. Ever.
Deeply flawed analysis. FG was NOT in power in 2009 or 2010. It cannot be held responsible fro the mess it inherited in 2011. The bankruptcy of the country by FIanna Fail is the main cause of job losses.
I can’t believe FG would lie to us. You mean to tell me that their recovery plan is not real?????? Why would they lie.
FG are not very good at maths, maybe they need to go back to primary level 1+1=2, not 1+1=whatever I pull out of me ar$e. (Reminds me of certain bankers)!
Whenever FG’s figures are shown up to be the lies they are they always use the ‘we used a different measurement method’…desperate or what?
Fine Gael don’t like being called liars. When caught out they would prefer if we (the plebs) and the media use the term, “economical with the truth”, political speak that downplays the severity of the lie and gives them just enough time to concoct a story about Sinn Fein/Fianna Fail to deflect the media glare away from their own deception. That’s how they roll folks.
Even Simon Coveney’s brother is questioning ‘the recovery’….. http://www.independent.ie/business/irish-economic-recovery-left-loads-behind-coveneys-brother-34426161.html
FG and Labour voters believe a lie they want to believe.
So as the article claims at the end, it does validate the claim that more than 135,000 people are working whether they are the cause of that or not.
Because they’ve been lying for 5 years
Because Greg, just above that line……
“Furthermore, the QNHS dataset used by Fine Gael does not take into account the quality of jobs held by those persons – whether full-time, part-time, permanent or temporary.”
Shocking given that Edna and Noonan are primary school teachers and Joan claims to be an accountant!! Imagine that pair teaching your kids.
True Al Ca , but its still accurate that those people are working whether it’s stocking shelves or brain surgery. Even if all 100% of those jobs are crap zero hours jobs it is still a factual statement based on the article above. Now considering the tax take has gone through the roof this year I am guessing many jobs are high skilled. Anybody I know who was out of work has now a job in the last 6 months. My point is that it is still accurate.
Ann, Joan even lectured at a university in the 70′s. Although it was the University of Dar es Salaam. Maybe that’s where she picked up her political ideology.
Greg…if the figures don’t count temp jobs, then it’s not counting when people leave them jobs, but counts when a new people start the same temp jobs. That way they could use Jobsbridge and Tús to count people starting employment in the same positions over and over again…..or even seasonal work in farming or shops at Christmas etc.
He’s spot on… why would anyone of smarts stick around Ireland when there’s London and cities of its ilk a mere matter of hours away on a plane?
Ok Al Ca, agree to disagree then. All I know is a lot of people I personally know now have jobs compared to 4-5 years ago. Lower and middle income working people and most have secured full time jobs. Better than it was. Not ideal but better than it was. Just saying.
Just to point out Greg from the article……
“This means that, using the CSO’s preferred measure, the only official figure available for the period defined by Fine Gael in its own claims, is a net loss of jobs to the tune of 13,368.
However, Fine Gael confirmed to TheJournal.ie that they had used a different measure to arrive at the claim that there had been “135,000 new jobs” since they launched the action plan for jobs, in February 2012.”
The problem is that the majority of the jobs are cheap labour.before the crash my take home was 860 but now only 470 so as you can c I am a long ways from recovery.as I have said before you cant build an economy on cheap labour.fg are spoofters and also nobody is taking into account of the near half million irish that have left our shores I think its a disgrace the way fg are lying to us all the time.I want change badly I dont want to be sending my son away also.what bugs me most is its all because of the banks they got away with murder all on ff fg Labour’s watch I hope to god that the irish will learn this time round.what we should do is vote in new people every election and eventually we will get someone who will want to do good for us.by the people for the people roll on the election.
Are you seriously saying you believe there has been a net loss of 13,368 jobs since 2012. The purpose of this article was to mislead gullible people. In your case it seems to have done the trick.
But are they being paid that’s the question
It’s good to be cynical, but there comes a point where it just gets ridiculous.
1+1=11 FG’s Logistical, Logaritmic Progression Method 1 for you and two for me.
Allowing for job losses emigration change of status to self-employed and the thousands of people who took up the offer of the €10,000 grant to look after a relative, the new jobs created claim needs clarity.
Seems pretty unavoidable that there are 135k more people going to work.
Also that 430k jobs were lost
The fact that they came from two different sources doesn’t change that and churn has nothing to do with it.
Agreed they may be crappy jobs though
http://www.slideshare.net/OfficialFineGael/fine-gael-manifesto-web
If you want a laugh??? Or a cry?
They created more than that and almost all of them were in Australia and Canada
The only jobs Fine Gael created were in Irish Water and they staffed it with party cronies.
Yeah, water charges are much more important than employment!
Good job Journal/Dan.
It’s an unwritten rule of sorts that politicians and parties lie/exaggerate and that the public forgive them every time.
Question is why are they allowed to get away with this? Can they not be prosecuted ir sued for making false claims or are they basically allowed to say what they want? Genuine question as I’ve always wondered why no one ever gets pulled up on lies and promises
yeah credit where its due, factcheck is a great idea. the journal have done well.
Good job my arse. This “fact check” is as flawed as any political party claim:
1. It’s claiming that the CSO are the only official arbiters of job creation information and their latest figures are for 2013! Nothing like up to date stats.
2. It says that just because a job was created, it doesn’t mean that it can be traced back to the national action plan for jobs – well duh!
3. It finishes off by talking about the quality of the jobs not being clear – who said anything about the quality and what is a “quality” job anyway? Certainly not being a hack in the journal given the poor quality of this rubbish. But then again it’s preaching to the converted left wing disaffected audience that dominates the journal.
Awww, poor kevin. Seeing his beloved FGs creative use of numbers get it from all angles today isn’t sitting well.
Sorry FC, they’re not my beloved anything but compared to the alternatives, it’s not even a contest.
Miguel, people are not going to forgive what Fianna Fail did to wreck peoples livelihoods and push property into negative equity….not now and not ever.
We are not interested in what people claim to do or the promises they make, at the end of the day we will judge them on what they have achieved in government…..that’s what really matters.
But they haven’t achieved anything so your point is moot. Never forgive ff if you want but remember in 2002 ireland rejected fg & unfortunately Mayo didn’t reject enda so we ended up.with enda in 2011 if only we knew but hindsight is great. Seriously I’m not political but this man is a Muppet & needs to go now. 35 years in the dail & nobody thought he was worthy of a serior post they we have a world wide recession & he gets to run the country that he wasn’t trusted to hold a senior position in. Only in Ireland
Kevin
Keep the Chaos, Corruption, Cronyism and Deceit going at a stable pace. Stability and more of the same No thanks. More deceit in Saturday’s Examiner headlines.
Well…when you reduce peoples income with lots of tax…you reduce their spending power, which in turn reduces jobs.
Good work journal.ie this is the kind of journalism that has been severely lacking over the last few years. Politicians need to be called out on their lies. FG have had a terrible start to their election campaign – long may it continue. There are alternatives out there that will allow this country and its society to prosper.
Like what P Quinn? FF who bankrupted the nation or SF the cult that has never governed, will not tolerate dissent and won’t condemn criminality? Yes great alternatives.
Claim: “SF the cult that has never governed”
Fact: SF govern in the 6 counties
Verdict: Claim is false
I’m talking about this country
Me too. There are two jurisdictions in this country, SF are currently governing in one of them.
Wow For Connolly, I see what you’re doing there…god your so smart. And here was I thinking I lived in a country called the Republic of Ireland.
Connolly, they govern in the north? Where they can’t agree how to spend the money they get from Westminster. Yeah thats governing.
Ffs
Kevin windle another Troll account 3 followers
Sorry garwig but I’m real and not hiding behind a silly pseudonym like you.
‘SF govern the 6 counties’ ….and who governs SF in the 6 counties.
Apart from west Belfast where even Dunnes Stores have pulled out, how many jobs have SF actually created in the 6 counties……??
Quotes from For Connolly (is there two?):
“No, the tory government in Westminister controls the purse strings for northern Ireland and have it on a shoestring. Stormont has no power to levy taxes on the people in the 6 counties.”
“Fact: SF govern in the 6 counties.”
And Sinn Fein’s bastion of the north is west Belfast where they control, which is one of the poorest deprived areas of Western Europe. Similar to Hamas and Syriza in that where these parties control always leads to poverty and eventually revolt like in Venezuala.
You know Greg……one time many years ago I was talking to a truck driver from NI and in the course of conversation I asked how many Catholics worked in his company, he replied …”Oh, we have two.”
He then asked me how many Protestants worked in mine……to which I replied “I don’t know because it’s not an issue and nobody cares anyway”………………he went red.
Al Ca, I gave you a green thumb because you are right, great story and would love that day to happen in the north but too many SF heads do have an issue if the person is a Protestant/unionist which is a pity because I would love them all to be a part of our 32 county all Ireland nation one day.
Greg…you are a nice person to debate with…salute!
Over and out! Till next time
SF impose save austerity, FG create hundreds of thousands of jobs. Its an easy choice :)
Also the fastest growing economy in Europe under FG!!! Doesn’t take much to raise from zero, a play with words I think?
Why aren’t Greece doing so well then with their populist left government (supported by Sinn Fein and the left here) ??
Fair play Journal. FG are going to have an awful campaign going on their start. Lying through their teeth, thankfully not all of us are as gullible to believe their rubbish!
This is good journalism.
It does glaringly show however, that we need an independent body, state funded, to look into government figures and claims. The UK has such a body – the UK office of nationals statistics and it does that. It would be useful, in time, to also increase its reach to cover all bodies that receive government funding.
How long to you think such a body would remain independent though ? Without a complete overhaul of how corruption is dealt with in Ireland, not very long I’d imagine.
Technically, we have one. It’s called the CSO. Unfortunately, as Paddy highlighted, while still technically independent, it always has a biased slant to its official figures and statements. Add to that government manipulation of its datasets and you can see why the creation of yet another quango wouldn’t really be worth it. Again, as Paddy stated, we need a complete overhaul of how corruption is dealt with and complete transparency in facts, figures and how government governs. Until then, no organisation will truly be independent or unbiased.
Here Brian, here’s how the CSO can help Politicians twist figures…. http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1028004.shtml
In Ireland the CSO run the national census every five years, whereas the UK holds a census every ten years….so whose figures are more accurate and up to date…….
It’s not about how up-to-date the figures are. It’s about how facts and figures are disseminated to the public, the timing of the release of facts and figures and the selectivity of which facts and figures are released. Also, the census is only one of a vast number of statistics for which the CSO is responsible. It is the most visible simply because it is the only time that the CSO engages directly with the entire public. Even then, however, the questions are very selective and biased.
But Chris….read the article…FG say they used a different method than the CSO to arrive at a figure of 135,000…otherwise it would read as a loss of 13,366 jobs for the same period.
What is the CSO then?
Ah I can’t believe for one second that fine gael fiddled the figures. They wouldn’t do something like that!!!
They surely haven’t hired THAT many ‘consultants’ have they?
The only thing FG have created is wholesale misery for ordinary people. They have created hundreds of millions for vulture funds, banks, and the likes of DOB.
That is the legacy of FG.
As for CSO figures, they are compromised. The CSO were caught with their trousers down asking EuroStat to remove an “unhelpful” paragraph in their report on IW. These are not the actions of an independent body, soley concerned with the compling of statistics.
If for example 1 million people are working in Ireland and that number goes up to 1.1 million people, that means 100,000 more people are in work.
Ffs
What do you miss most about the time before they got in? National bankruptcy? Chronic unemployment? Emigration?
And the gullible souls will swallow it all up.
Well…. to be fair. Their 5 point scam was always going to lead to more jobs – for their cronies.
Can you Create some form for of score card for all these finding and see who has the most false claims by Election Day? Fine Gael are what 2 up at the moment
Stability built on lies
Great to see some impartial reporting. So that’s another lie from FG and Labour, great stuff.
“relies on data than cannot”
Now if they could just use spellcheck….C’mon lads..
We’ll take what we can get Charlie, expecting perfection will always lead to disappointment.I honestly expected it to be dropped and certainly didn’t expect it to be this critical of the government. Credit where credit is due.
Absolutely Paddy just rippin the proverbial. I have read more articles here in the last week (6-10) than I have in months. As Garwig said it is great to see impartial reporting.
Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.” – MARK TWAIN
FG have created all these jobs, but have a very rose tinted glasses was in manipulating the numbers.
jobs that are part time, low paid or on zero hour contracts are not addressed. figures concerning emigration are ignored, slavecridge and how it affects these numbers is ignored…
ff and fg are 2 cheeks of the same bottom………….no point in getting pulled into their puppet show…….
Needs to be a fact check also on SF rule in NI Are they actually imposing austerity there
No, the tory government in Westminister controls the purse strings for northern Ireland and have it on a shoestring. Stormont has no power to levy taxes on the people in the 6 counties.
Connolly, so they govern in the north when it suits your argument? And then they don’t govern because of Westminster to suit your other argument?
That ladies and gentlemen is What Sinn Fein does best, duck and dive.
Ffs
So they’re not governing then FC as you claim above. Ahh the old SF double talk!
Fine Gael have created misery / stealth taxes / record waiting times for A&E’s across the country / positions for unqualified family & friends / excuses, lies & ineptitude. Their long term economic plan for this campaign is already discredited so it’s been a terrible start to their campaign thankfully & no doubt it’s not going to improve soon either. Really hope they let Enda off the leash ASAP & destroy any hope they may still have for re election.
If you can call jobsbridge and tus with the dirty threat of loosing your payments if you don’t participate a job well yeah bravo to labour fg.
FG said at the start of 2015 that they would create something like 200,000 jobs by 2018, then it changed to 250,000 then mostly recently it changed again to 300,000 but this time by 2020. It’s a bit like the fiscal space non sense. More pie in the sky spin. I also remember Brian Lehinan saying at the last election to Fine Gael that he knew that FF would get wiped out but FG to come to the table to debate substance and fact and not what we are experiencing again. Bought election
Need to consider that there are the same amount on disability that are not included in the dole figures and even more who left the country. Currently the broad unemployment rate stands at 18%, as trainee nurses earn 4e an hr whilst being deemed employed (for example). manipulating figures is what Fg/lab spend a lot of time on.
Anything over 1 hour a week is considered employed and being on any course no matter how frivolous and no matter how little it effects a social welfare payment is considered being off the live register. That’s why 55 year olds made unemployed during the recession who had years of experience in other fields are being offered courses in things like basic web design.
When you dig down through all the lies and spin created around an election, when you take away the Local former GAA star candidates who will get votes for nothing to do with politics. When you analyse the councillors who but themselves forward hoping to secure a family dynasty without taking any risks to their council seat. Those teachers that hold onto their school positions and pension while playing at politics. Those businesspersons or accountants or solicitors you start to understand what is wrong with our political system, why good candidates loose out because they are outside the circles were power remains.
You hit the nail on the head leartius, couldnt agree more
FG and lies are commonplace…
FG said “that they had used a different measure to arrive at the claim” let me guess in lay man’s terms that means they are lying again. No surprise when they are lead by Enda “it’s not our debt” “seismic shift” Kenny.
May I suggest that the person sitting nearest the entrance to the Journal office entrance turn the key and lock the door….Alan Kelly’s on his way over.
When there are so much lies its becomes hard to know fact from fiction.
And lo it came to pass Enda the anointed one did had the masses new boots and yellow jackets with glow in the go faster stripes. ” I command you all to go forth and look busy for 20 hours a week. I’ll reward you all with 20 euro a week on top of your dole so I can tax you and I can. tell the Frau Furher “…..Heil Merkel !
It’s great that we live in a day and age where this can be exposed. Especially for the sakes of young voters who may not be used to how the establishment parties operate.
At the same time, why are we reading that the governments job creation claims are mostly false on an internet news site. Why aren’t journalists dragging the government over hot coals every time BS claims are made? Why are we only learning of this 3 weeks out from polling day?
(Solid analysis by the way Dan, ta)
But we’re ‘the fastest growing economy in Europe’. Surely they wouldn’t lie to us and provide contextless facts?!
What is wrong with the journal two stories questioning fg waiting for the punch line.
Excellent article and explains the in and outs of the numbers concerned. Looking forward to more of the same.
The article is basically complaining because the statistics they use show the net number of jobs created. He’s saying that if you’re talking about job creation you should only show the gross number of jobs created, but that would have produced a bigger and even more impressive figure because it would have ignored the number of jobs lost. he’s using a semantic argument to try and claim that that’s somehow being dishonest when it’s actually going out of the way not to be. And you want more of the same!
What I would like to know is of any jobs that have been ‘created’, how many of those jobs have gone/will go to Irish residents and how many have gone/will go to foreigners imported for those positions. It makes little difference to the tax revenue but it makes a big difference to those trying to get off the dole.
The call center jobs are kind of famous for that. Look at the big announcement for jobs at VoxPro in Cork for example for their Air BnB op. Hailed as “high tech service industry jobs”, most are really phone operator jobs and a large chunk of those are for foreign language speakers. Nobody in Ireland is going to spend 4 years minimum learning Turkish or Danish to make minimum wage in a call center sweat shop so people need to be imported. Meanwhile these companies receive IDA grants funded by the Irish taxpayer worth hundreds of thousands of euro while they sort out other countries employment problems.
My advice to you is train hard, protect your health, eat and drink naturally, create your future, do upon to others as they do upon You.
My advice to you Dean. Get off that bike. Bloody death traps.
These kind of figures should be deal with exclusively by politically independent bodies, but that would not suit politiians so it can’t happen, or at least the statistics can be massaged and presented as fact (all governments do this to a greater or lesser degree).
This government of Fine Gael / Labour are doing nothing but spruting lies. Where are the 135000 jobs CSO can’t see them.
Unless FG is taking on skulls on the payroll they employ SFA…
Good journalism
Well balanced,informative,insightful story in The Journal?!?!Dan ,collect your P45 at the end of the week!!!
Another con fg,labour has been caught out in.corrupt liars.
Political parties of all creeds repackage statistics to coincide with the results of the economic cycle. These are almost always spun to support an argument or initiative.
The truth is that little if any value has been added by politicians but rather the policies imposed by Europe (permanent bureaucrats) have effected a more pragmatic long term economic framework to work within.
Summary is that all politicians have little or no long term vision and the short term nature of the political system-cycle perpetuates this myopic approach in legislating for our country. The sooner an overhaul of the political system is adopted the better.
fine Gael are actually correct. Whoever wrote this article tried to prove otherwise but failed.
Actually…they proved it was a lie…you need to read the article…not just skim it.
I did. What Fine Gael said is correct. I’m doubting the veracity of this article.
Sounds like when the monster raving loony party in the uk promised to cut the dole q in half. When asked how they replied get people to q in pairs
Pity the jobs weren’t in Ireland and not in Australia and England, p’s sons emergrating 3 weeks time ,has enough of this country,
It’s obvious that the journals articles relating GE16 are completely bias !no negative related articles to any other party’s than Fine Gael or Labour !!
Truth has no bias.
Just because you read it in the Journal doesn’t mean it’s true.
Very few have gotten jobs like most me and my siblings are over seas along with my cousins and the sadist part is those who could not cope and deiced to leave us for good,
And many across our island could repeat the same.
The CSO is a government department and accepts other state agencies and departments figures. In the UK, the National Statistics Office is independent. If someone gets a contract, its a new job. So, some a renewal contract, say every 3 months is 3 jobs for CSO statistics. Or, if its done annually. Then they are replaced to avoid making them permanent. The OPW has summer jobs, and a period of 9 months covered 3 contracts for one person. Was that I or 3 jobs? CSO says 3. Its all manipulated. If a company with 30 employees buys a company with 10 employees CSO calculate 80 jobs, but we know there are in fact only 40.
You’re just making that up. It’s paranoid nonsense.
DOWN with The Gang of Four
There are now 135,800 more jobs than there were when the Action Plan for Jobs was launched, as conceded in this article. The author of the article takes issue with the statistics because he says they are not intended to be a measure of jobs created; but they are a measure of the total number of jobs, so the difference between the two time periods cited does show the number of net jobs created (jobs created – jobs lost). If Fine Gael had only supplied the gross number of jobs created then that would have been misleading because it would have ignored the number of jobs lost. It looks like it’s not Fine Gael who are trying to mislead voters but the Journal.
You need to reread what was written……..
“This means that, using the CSO’s preferred measure, the only official figure available for the period defined by Fine Gael in its own claims, is a net loss of jobs to the tune of 13,368.”
“However, Fine Gael confirmed to TheJournal.ie that they had used a different measure to arrive at the claim that there had been “135,000 new jobs” since they launched the action plan for jobs, in February 2012.”
So….FG did not use the CSO’s preferred measure.
You only read the last line.
That figure only relates to 2013. Tbe author goes on to concede that there are over 135,000 extra jobs since Fine Gael launched the Action Plan for Jobs. I’d also have doubts about the author’s claim that Job Churn is the CSO’s preferred method for measuring net job creation rather than the QNHS. According to CSO the purpose of Job Churn is to “explore the dynamics in business employment – the flow of jobs and persons between firms and within and between sectors” Maybe an informed economist could enlighten me but I reckon we’re being told porkies.
Because…..”The QNHS does not measure job creation. It measures the stock of persons in the labour force at a given point in time.”
So FG would use this method as it excludes people who are forced to take Jobsbridge, Tús and re-education or part time work but still draw welfare.
Why does he not give the Job Churn figures then? Job creation figures can be fairly easily extrapolated by excluding the numbers in Jobsbridge etc. Economists do this all the time and their figures consistently vindicate what Fine Gael have been saying. Even the author of this article isn’t able to gainsay fine Gael’s claims, so he has to obfuscate instead to try and give a false impression.
“Croke Park will host the Asia Pacific Ireland Business Forum on Friday next July 13 and Taoiseach Enda Kenny will be the key note speaker at this event.
Entitled ‘Asia Now – Maximising Current Business Opportunities for Irish Companies’ the forum provides an unrivalled network for Irish companies doing business in Asia.
Last year’s event, which was also held at Croke Park, attracted more than 300 delegates and was addressed by An Tanáiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade Eamon Gilmore. The forum has since paid special attention on informing Irish businesses about opportunities in Asia.
This event is of particular interest to those looking to expand their business activities in Asia or those looking to explore opportunities in Asian tourism.
The work of the forum has used the GAA’s network of clubs and business contacts both in the Gulf Region and Asia and forms part of the Annual Asian Games weekend.”
http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/0607121657-croke-parkto-host-asia-pacific-ireland-business-forum/
“Minister Flanagan urges Irish businesses to seek new growth opportunities in Asia”
https://www.dfa.ie/news-and-media/speeches/speeches-archive/2015/july/min-urges-businesses-to-seek-asia-opportunities/
How can jobs grow here when this government brought in AUSTERITY and then brought in new taxes, do they know nothing and then they wanted jobs to leave here for China. Have they a clue about creating jobs or about the PESTLE Model?
I don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t think you do either.
If you do not know what I am talking about then that is your fault not mind??? I do.
This article seems to validate what Fine Gael said. It states quite clearly that the figures validate “Fine Gael’s contention that: “Over 135,000 more people are going to work since we launched our Action Plan for Jobs” If the author thinks these figures shouldn’t be used to measure job gains then why didn’t he provide what he thinks are the correct details?
A 1000 jobs in jeopardy, anybody knows where that is. Can’t find it on google maps
Try putting Double in front of that lol.
Possibly Hertz European centre in Dublin!! Saw something about that!
Hmmm, so lets get this straight. Job looses are governments fault but job creation isn’t?? That make zero sense whatsoever.
Funny things happening when people share this on Facebook now!!! Fairly sure FG are not happy!! Well Done The Journal!
They also created the weather we have been having lately.
.
(Hitler would deliberately only visit German towns when the weather forecast for that town was for sunshine….Hitler Weather.)
P.S.
Hitler only appeared with the sunshine.
It suited his image as being the maker of the good weather.
Monster.
In November 2015 it was stated that 70,000 not on the live register numbers were on employment programmes, but what were these employment programs? Were people working for their dole?
Political parties and governments do not create jobs. They merely make it easier or more difficult for others to do so.
have your say