@H Woo: Of course he knows they’re dead, he said turning in their grave, can you provide evidence of the claims you’ve made or are you just making up stuff in your little brain

@H Woo: You do know what the saying “turning in their graves” means, don’t you?

@Brian D’Arcy: And what do you have to say about the way Muslims have treated non-Muslims throughput history? Stop elevating Muslims to some uniquely persecuted class. They’re not. And they certainly can not claim any higher moral authority than others.

@Brian D’Arcy: it’s called auto correct. Islam is a cult, even more dangerous than the Catholic Church ever was. They do the exact same thing to children and will slay any non believer in their path.

@SerotoninWars: as I simply said, governmental indoctrination is no less dangerous than any other type of indoctrination.

@Oh Mammy: Life, ethics, politics, beliefs, standards and morals aren’t simple though. They’re evolving, sometimes devolving areas that are usually contentious to some group. Governmental indoctrination is far too vague a term to reply with a basic yes/no answer. There are groups who believe in zero government, no laws, no guidelines whatsoever even if there are usually a few areas most people agree we should have some common laws and standpoints on. Indoctrination is a highly subjective term. Taking humans at their youngest, most malleable stage and filling their heads with some very strange and specific beliefs that wouldn’t be given the time of day if they didn’t fall under religion, is indoctrination though, no question.

@SerotoninWars: I say this as an atheist who requested an opt out of religion for my kids, I think there are more pressing issues with schools, lack of teachers, lack of places for children with additional needs, lack of spaces in general for children in their areas.
While a child may have to attend a school with a religious ethos, I don’t know any schools now that force the issue. I know plenty of parents who opted out their children from doing religion, and found it was parents wanting their children to do religion so they could have the “day out” for communion and confirmation. Local school had looked into divesting and it was actually the parents that voted against it.

@SerotoninWars: I’d also add, would you say the same to a family who strictly adhere to the Muslim religion? Female children wearing a hijab in primary school, who practice Ramadan?

@Mary Kelly: I understand where you are coming from on some levels. Also that people are finding life pretty exhausting as it is, so taking on more fights especially when it involves sticking your head above the crowd, is a bit of a pain. But there’s also the reality of the situation. Can you imagine ANY other vested interest group with THAT track record being allowed to swan in and present theirs highly partisan, hugely strange take on life and existence at such an important developmental stage? It’s crazy!

Anyone who is willing to give up that amount of power and control for a ‘day out’ is a lazy sheep who honestly doesn’t really deserve consideration in a serious conversation.

@Mary Kelly: I would say the same to everyone.

Including those who practice their version of Lent (Ramadan).

@Mary Kelly: Yes, I would, 100%. I’ve met plenty of nice Muslims who like many Christian’s go along with it because it’s always been there, they grew up with it, had it drilled in from an early age etc. Pure inertia comes into it too. But I feel very strongly that this should be an adult decision. Not something foisted on kids. They are too young to have this big label slapped on them when they don’t have any of the life experience or knowledge to make an informed decision. It’s an abuse of power forcing kids into any unscientific, unverifiable and highly dubious faith.

@SerotoninWars: I agree there should be no religion at all in schools, that this is something that is part of children’s home life. I never had a problem in my kids schools requesting an opt out from religion, principal kids were opted out too, it was actually other parents commentary and the lame excuse of pleasing grandparents and thinking their kids would miss out. Most of the kids hadn’t been in a church since their own baptism. I recall in my eldest sons class a parent telling me I was mean spirited for not letting him do his communion, I said he was worshipping the gods of football as we brought him to a premiership game the weekend of the communion! 9 years later and none of his mates remember anything of their day but he remembers his trip

@SerotoninWars: Given the track record of the church and reluctance to pay any compensation to their victims, the schools should be simply taken off of them and put under 100% state control.
A few (10% ?) can be left for the parents still living in the past and that’s it.
In 10 years, all religious managed school should be 100% privately funded.

@SerotoninWars: ok, point towards the evidence that stipulates how earth and man kind was created if it wasn’t by a ‘god’

@Wolfgang Bonow: I take it you don’t seek medical treatment in the majority of Irish hospitals in the state?

@Wolfgang Bonow: I’m a life long atheist and I really don’t know if giving the state 100% control over our kids minds is such a good idea. Not least because of what we’ve seen recently with the Family A debacle. Truly frightening.

@SerotoninWars: No such thing as nice muslims when it comes to what prevail. The Quran is clear, Islam first, everything comes after. Of their goal is to spread Islam, they won’t spare you. Most monotheistic religions are bad, Islam takes the lead for the last century. The only religion who shakes hands with Hitler and promised him to remove from life all the Jews they could find.

@Mary Kelly: Yes I can imagine! On this one issue I get why the believers have a problem too. It’s a bit daft to do nothing, attend nothing, put nothing into practise and then show up for the photo opportunities! It’s wishy washy to put it as nicely as I can. Maybe some would argue that it’s good that the control has lessened but what’s the point of doing the the Hollywood stuff if you don’t even believe in the rest of it enough to shake a leg the rest of the time? Why put the kids through it and sign them up for membership of something with a history like that? Again it’s impossible to separate it from the stories we’ve heard this week, on the back of many many others over the years. Although I’m not sure I’ve read anything as extremely depraved as the stuff that came out this week. I’m not easily shocked but that was a level of brutality, barbarism, exploitation and perversion that truly sickened. Pure evil.

@Wolfgang Bonow: With their track record there should be a barring order. I get that there’s some kind people in there but when the worse possible abuse has been that institutionalised and so recently, it’s simply insane that they get to have such a huge involvement still. The sole reason is that they fall under the big ‘R’ and get all of the allowances, validation and unearned respect that incredibly, still come with the territory and uniform.

@Alex: I’m not into religion at all. However I can separate the people who fall under the cultural and traditional umbrella of the religion they fell into, from the die-hards, literalists and people who only want the most regressive of steps taken. I’m not saying it makes sense how people can turn such a blind eye and cherry pick. But there are so many like this, in all religions. They want the nice bits and ‘the hope’. I might not agree with them but I’ve met too many decent people to castigate all of them as bad individuals, as opposed to banine passengers hoping for the best, as they understand things.

@Wolfgang Bonow: another clown

@SerotoninWars: so how do you explain the creation of earth and all mankind etc?

@Niall English: There are huge amounts of information out there about evolution, planet formations, star formations, physics, biology and so on. far too much to fit into a quick response here. We already cleared one hurdle with our understanding of evolution and how life modifies and adapts over time.

We don’t have all the answers. No one would claim that but over time we have been slowly but surely getting rid of our superstitious and irrational beliefs about why certain things happen and occur. Perhaps some questions are too big to know the full answer to. This doesn’t mean we get a free pass to insert any wild theories we want in there. We can think about them and test them of course but incredible claims require incredible evidence. That is sorely missing from the god theory. It doesn’t add up on so many fronts and simply opens another set of arguably even bigger questions to answer. In the context of this thread, I was referring to the supposed representatives of ‘god’ who aren’t exactly the best advertisement for organised religion.

@Mary Kelly: They shouldn’t even be there in the first place, Mary. European countries who opened their doors have learned the hard way and Ireland will follow suit. Hard right govt incoming within five years. Watch this space.

@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: 0.004 Toral

@Dave Grant: Wrong, of course.

@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: id rather enjoy living my life as opposed to worrying about what rubbish goes in what bin. 9% of the world’s population recycles. take a trip to Africa and have a look at their waste management programs.

@Niall English: Horrible attitude to have, I’d say your house is a tip

@Niall English: exactly. Worrying about nonsense

@Niall English: Surprisingly, I lived in Africa for 2 years. NOTHING WAS WASTED!

@Niall English: Africans would put us to shame when it comes to waste management, at least, those who have moved here do anyway. They would teach us a thing or too.

@Paul: sicko