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FIANNA FÁIL’S FINANCE spokesperson Michael McGrath TD has said that he does not share his party leader’s views on the Eighth Amendment.
McGrath told RTÉ’s Today with Seán O’Rourke that he favours the Eighth Amendment being replaced in the constitution, not repealed.
Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin told the Dáil on Thursday that he has come to the view that the Eighth Amendment has caused “real damage to Irish women“ and should be repealed.
Speaking this morning, McGrath said he felt that removing the amendment would lead to an “unknown” because the government cannot guarantee what legislation would be passed afterwards.
“If the question is that there would be a full repeal of the amendment with the intention to replace it with legislation providing for unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks, then that is something that I cannot support, I believe it is a step too far,” he said.
“I genuinely believe that where we appear to be going with this question is actually not where the majority of the Irish people sit on this question.”
One serious concern I have is that if the question is full repeal of the Eighth Amendment and the government publishes indicative legislation providing for abortion up to 12 weeks, people really if they pass that referendum will be signing up to an unknown because there is no certainty that that is where the legislation will finally fall.
“We already heard many of those in the Dail, who would be on the repeal side, who believe that it should not rest at 12 weeks, that it should be much further,” he added.
Martin has acknowledged that not all in Fianna Fáil will agree with his personal position but added that his party has allowed members a free vote on the issue.
On Friday, Fianna Fáil TD Bobby Aylward said he wants like-minded members of the party who oppose repeal to meet and discuss how they will campaign against it.
McGrath stated today that he would not be attending that meeting and said he has not decided in what capacity he would be campaigning.
He also stated that it is natural that people have contrasting views on the issue and that he supports his party allowing members expressing differing views.
“Households will be split, there’s no doubt about that,” he said.
Speaking later to Neil Prendeville on Cork’s Red FM, Martin said there is “an absolutism and inflexibility” that is not helpful inherent in the Eighth Amendment.
He also rejected suggestions that changing Ireland’s abortion laws in the manner proposed would alter how Irish society views moral questions in this area.
“I don’t any longer buy the argument that if we change our laws we’ll somehow become like other countries or we’ll become immoral in relation to these issues, and I think that’s been overstated in the past,” he said.
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Have you seen what comes off the Ryanair flights from Manchester for the hen weekends. Full of weapons. Can somebody please stop them
@Dave Doyle: what comes off the ryanair planes for the weekend dont terrorise murder and massacre innocent babies and children with the help of irish taxpayers money. Shame on the irish regime and terrorist supporter vradkar and all his lackeys
@jon-boy55: good man johnny.saving the world one post at a time.
@Red hurley: In fairness, it’s better than smugly posting redundant condescending snark from behind an anonymous profile, it’s a moral issue and he’s entitled to his opinion. Take the piss out of him for being a keyboard warrior if you want, but at least his comment has more fibre to it than your desperate plea for attention
@jon-boy55: I bet a few of them might have terrorized an unborn baby of the were returning from an Abortion
@jon-boy55:
How does Irish tax payer money help to terrorist people. We charge these planes to land and we also benefit from the cost of the refueling. If anything the Irish tax payer is benefiting and not vice versa. But hey, when you are used to posting hyperbole without thinking through what you are saying it’s must be very hard to change
@jon-boy55: I think Dave was making a joke. OK? Calm down.
@Dave Doyle: I bet the government are allowing these planes to refuel at cost price & charge little or no landing fees & possibly of no financial gain to the Irish exchequer.
@Windy Atlantic Way: you bet? Or you know? Or you’re just making stuff up?
(Maybe you should try to find out)
@jon-boy55: no the Manchester weapons just terrorise me and other lads out for a quiet pint. You would swear they had never seen a man before in their lives
@Brendan Gordon: ooooooooohhhhhhhh brendan youre big words hurt.xxxxx
@Red hurley: Two points:
1) They’re not big words.
2) It’s actually “your”.
Now petal, I’ll give you one more reply because I know you’re desperate for the attention but then I have to leave you to your lonely tears.
@Windy Atlantic Way: You bet ?? YOUR’E GREAT!
I dont see a problem in helping our best friend, USA.
@Séamus McCallion: Too Right Seamus. Neutrality is a cop out. You need to pick a side.
@Séamus McCallion: It’s the difference between trying to break up a fight your mate started, and handing them a knife when they’re in a fight they started. We’re a neutral country, for that position to be changed the public should be consulted. We shouldn’t be directly supporting the waging of American military action
@Séamus McCallion: I do, I think we should declare war and invade immediatly, dust down the landing craft and prep the F-16′s…lets pick a fight ! (Florida would be best, its nice and warm there)
@Brendan Gordon: Interesting analogy Brendan. Neutrality also means that if your other mate, who doesn’t start fights, is jumped on by some sc***ag you would stand back and not get involved. Nice moral stance.
@kevin: no, you still try and break it up, just not by swinging in with fists. Neutrality doesn’t mean you don’t get involved, just that you don’t take sides
@Brendan Gordon: glad you’re not my mate Brendan. I expect my friends to help me if I’m being attacked.
@Brendan Gordon: How is it taking sides, tho
@Brendan Gordon: *How is it taking sides though? The US aren’t the only country who can use Shannon.
@Malachi: See my earlier comment . It’s handing them their knife. It’s supporting violence against another country. It’s not something we should be involved in without public consent.
@Séamus McCallion: The same people on here praising the US give out about foreigners in the country. isn’t US the reason for the misplacement of these unfortunate people. and the people trafficking also?
@kevin: I said a fight they started. I’m just glad I’m not your friend in general, you seem a bit simple to miss that. Regardless who started the fight only an absolute limp dick tosser wades in aggressively against someone just to do damage because they’re fighting a mate. You break it up if you can and try to get people to settle it like adults.
@Brendan Gordon: Our so-called neutrality does not appear in our constitution or our legislation.
@Johnny Bellew: Are you saying it’s not an important enough topic to warrant public debate and input?
@Séamus McCallion: Claire does, they’re not friends with Kim!!
@Brendan Gordon: That is your opinion Brendan Gordon. I do not agree. The fight is underway… period. Do you want to leave Russia expand & invade other countries at will? Crimea, Ukraine, Syria
@Brendan Gordon: Sure, but let’s stop calling ourselves neutral unless there is an official line. Neutrality can have some benefits but at other times, such as when great evils are being committed, it can be a cop-out.
@Brendan Gordon: you seem like a nice guy Brendan, despite the insult, but so was Neville chamberlain
@Johnny Bellew: That’s exactly my point, why are we pretending to be neutral. We need to discuss it publicly and decide, not do sycophantic back room deals while pretending to be everyone’s buddy
@kevin: I’m not a nice guy and you sound like an idiot. I’m not talking about appeasement or burying our head in the sand, I’m talking about our government being accountable and consulting the population on what position to take, not staying out of everything.
@Malachi: don’t I remember Russian flights on route to Cuba passing through Shannon? I suspect a weapon or two passed through then. Funny I don’t recall any moral indignation at that time. Let’s just object to US armed services passing through Shannon. There are multiple alternatives as per business or military requirement. Make up your mind which way you want it? I am sure we can accommodate your preference. Can you afford the consequences?
Every plane that lands in an airport pays to land there. This money keeps the airport open and people in jobs.
@bings: Yeah, and organised crime contributes to the exchequer because criminals spend their money and enjoy lavish lifestyles so we should turn a blind eye to that too. Obviously your morals are pretty cheaply bought
@Brendan Gordon: I’m not sure your analogy quite works. Whatever your gripes with US foreign policy, the fight against ISIS (which is what Shannon is facilitating for the most part) isn’t really comparable to organised crime.
@Malachi: illegal activities resulting in innocent deaths as collateral damage, yeah I’d call that an apt analogy
@Brendan Gordon: innocent deaths… try telling that to Isis & Putin. Do you write trash on their websites hoping to influence public opinion and change their ways?
@James Maloney: Innocent deaths are the population of Syria being bombed to bits, I said collateral, if you can’t follow the thread of a short sentence you should probably do a bit of study before you dive into international affairs. As for influencing public opinion, all I want is the government of my country to be accountable for their decisions and act in accordance with the will of the people. I we are not going to be neutral that’s fine, but making special exemptions for weapons of war while pretending to be neutral is unaceptable, especially when the government has lied claiming previously that no weapons were coming through irish airports. I know you don’t have the reasoning power or polite rationale to understand that I don’t mind if things don’t go my way as long as the decisions are made in a fair, transparent and accountable way. Kneejerk neanderthals like yourself are the reason Putin’s online division are having so much success riling people around the world
@Brendan Gordon: “All I want is the government of our country to be accountable”——Do you mean that they should consult YOU every time they make a decision?
@Brendan Gordon: Brendan we are the big bad wolf in the world. Incidentally we do not require your support. We would appreciate your gratitude if not your support for the benefits you have derived from our contributions.
The island of Ireland is not neutral . Irish troops from north of the border are part of NATO and operate in war zones across the world .
@Tommy Whelan: North of the border is a different country, that’s why there’s a border, if the Republic is going to abandon our policy of neutrality, it should be because the people voted as such, not because of sycophantic government favouritism.
Neutrality is the reason Ireland made zero contribution in the fights against the Nazi,s, the Soviets and now ISIS. Irish neutrality is a disgrace which provides people like Clare Daly the illusion of a higher moral ground. Its very easy for someone who flies around on a broomstick to second guess how airports conduct their business.
@Joe Caulfield: what did the Soviets do to us? Just because the yanks had a problem with them doesn’t mean we have to.
@Joe Caulfield: You go and let you and your family get sucked into the USA war machine in their resource wars they’re conducting all over the world. I don’t want my family being dragged in to be used as sand bags or cannon fodder on behalf of the biggest terrorist organisation ever seen.
@Dave Doyle: poor drama queen stuff there.
@Joe Caulfield: joe you said it brother. Time for Ireland to grow up, take sides and contribute to mutual security. The is getting tiresome. If you play you got to pay. No more freeloading.
@Eoin Murphy: Are you serious.? Push back is on its way unapologetically. You measure the despicable Soviet behavior over 50 yrs with the millions slaughtered against what they did or not did as per the Irish? Can your moral compass include something other than personal interest? Do not put the US on the same moral plane as Stalin and his cronies.
@Dave Doyle: There you go again. I am a retired US fodder expat who was more than happy to play his part in the war against terrorism. I had the guts to act on my convections. The best you will do is mutter on against such efforts from the safety and heaven of security bought by the sweat and blood of those with the courage of their convections. Go join ISIS or the other forces threading world security and act on your convections. No free ride for you my man.
I don’t support Daly, but I recognise her as a genuine woman of conscience in her own mind.
Her priorities may be incompatible with those of most of the electorate, but we need someone making us aware of certain truths.
@alphanautica: she wanted to nationalise Dell when they moved the manufacturing to Poland…anyone who would want to do something that stupid shouldn’t be listened to
@Fergus Sheahan: Nobody would be talking about nationalising Dell if Daly hadn’t the courage to say it.
@Fergus Sheahan: what’s stupid about wanting to save jobs?
@alphanautica: your right it takes courage to say something so stupid
@Eoin Murphy: illegal takeovers of companies and stupid ideas won’t save any jobs
@Eoin Murphy:
Ironically, banning military flights through Shannon would cost jobs.
@alphanautica: Sort out her own crime infested City for her electorate,The majority of people in the midWest be more concerned with the lack of flights to continental Europe than young men and women aboard these military flights..
@Fergus Sheahan: illegal takeover of companies is what goes on in Venezuela by their socialist dictatorship, they use it as propaganda… while they destroy the country in search or their Cuban style utopia… maybe this is what she wants!
@James Maloney: i wonder is she very stupid or just clever enough to know how to exploit the stupid people who believe her clap trap?
@Eoin Murphy: Ehh? The stupidity was in thinking the Dell plant was a stand alone operation that, if nationalised, could continue to operate at a profit and employ workers. It showed her lack of understanding of the huge chain within which the Limerick plant was just one link. Outside of the Dell supply chain, as in if it was nationalised, the plant was worthless. Basic first year organisational theory stuff.
@alphanautica: Pray tell us how we could nationalise Dell? An MNE, headquartered in the US, with a few links in its vast supply chain based in Ireland. Courage to show a lack of understanding of the most basic aspects of how MNEs operate….. if a first year business student spouted such rubbish they would get an F.
Every US flight has at least one weapon on board.
Interesting that they don’t list the countries, makes you wonder why
The act refers to civilian flights, not military. Someone flying in, out or through Ireland to compete in something like one of the Olympic shooting competitions, as seen recently in the Winter Olympics, with their equipment would need an exemption.
In the absence of further data it’s difficult to tell how many of these exemptions were US troops and wouldn’t include actual US military flights.
The shame in all this is that a sitting T.D. thinks Ireland is neutral! Where in the constitution of the State does it mention Irelandp is neutral ?
@Gerry Cummins: Spot on. It is entirely up to the discretion of the government.
@colm mc sweeney: It may not be in the constitution but an issue like the country’s neutrality should not simply be down to how much the govt wants to to suck up to the states, It should be properly debated and discussed, and how we act internationally should match up to the image we present of ourselves.
@Brendan Gordon: How many of the flights were from the US? How many other countries flights had weapons? What weapons were they? A lot of detail needed before you can start any debate.
Who cares what Clare Daly thinks.
I’m no maths genius but 330 in a year is not one a day…
I wonder does anyone have any figures on what exactly it’s worth to Ireland every year.. Landing charges, Refueling & maybe a few gifts, coffee & food in the terminal. Then maybe Claire Daly & her entourage can decide whether it’s worth it or not? & if not Who will pay the employees that lose their jobs.. Department of Social Welfare I suppose?
Meanwhile Russian Bombers fly up and down the West Coast and we don’t even mention them. We should at least throw stones at them.
@Sean Gordon: they are flying in international airspace.
our neutraity sold for scraps under FF and continued under FG…
@Nigel Griffin: We don’t have a neutrality policy. That is a figment of the imagination.
@Johnny Bellew: When was that last time we needed air and naval support to repel foreign invaders?
Income from this is blood money. Exceptional work by Ed Horgan and Shannonwatch for documenting the US military, CIA and illegal “rendition” flights. The Catholic-Worker-inspired Pitstop Ploughshares 5 damaged a US Navy plane at Shannon in 2003, and convinced the jury, in 2006, that they were not guilty of criminal damage because their intervention was supported by a greater morality, and international law. Mary Kelly, and Clair Daly & Mick Wallace have done similar protests. wikileaks showed that the US was very concerned at the 2006 not guilty verdict, and received reassurances from our government that it wouldn’t happen again.
@245hkJ01: If Edward Horgan is so concerned about Shannon Airport being used by the US military why doesn’t he hand back his big military pension…
We should get 10 green cards minimum per landing tbh
Climb the fence again there claire into the airport,and your tax cheating buddy Mr Wallace and don’t forget your ladder this time!! Careful you don’t rip your dress,tax payer might have to pay to get it stitched!!
No armed planes in Shannon but ok for the PDF to join PESCO?
Perish the thought that we Irish freeloaders would do anything to help the Americans or the Brits who basically guarantee our security and have to come and bail us out, even when we have an emergency situation and need air and naval support.
They probably want us to ask Putin for help next time
I wonder if Ireland is truly neutral would they allow planes loaded with weapons from the Middle East to land and refuel in shaonnon on their way to the USA? I’m thinking No. Hey that also makes me thinks, over 300 planes going over to the Middle East from the USA and not one plane from the Middle East going over to the USA – wait I’m confused who are the terrorists? I’m lost.
As if we didn’t know this has been happening in Shannon airport for years already one of these day there will be a bomb dropped on it and that will be that end of story.
As long as they’re paying up who gives a feck. Get those dollars!
that’s a lora fuel and so a lora tax take!
Good
Did Daly pay her fine imposed for illegal entry into Shannon airport or was it docked from her wages like it would be for any member not of the politburo breaking the law .Donald Trump has his work cut out with these lefty Fidel Castro virtue signallers.
Ireland is neutral in name only.
We are not neutral in reality – we depend on a NATO power to protect us under a secret deal which the Government refuses to discuss under “national security”.
We have not signed up to the Hague Convention, neutrality is not in our Constitution, and we have never, unlike Sweden, Austria etc, paid to defend it.
We are in the PfP of NATO, our army is being trained and equipped to NATO standards, and Irish troops have served abroad under NATO command.
We are not a member of a military alliance yet we rely on foreign taxpayers to fund our defence.
What airlines make the requests? I’m guessing the single largest number of requests are airlines transporting US soldiers who carry their rifles as part of their kit. To hear the implied criticism there must hundreds of aircraft carrying anything short of nukes. Lots of buzz but no hive.
They’re like neighbors to our president, right across the street in the Phoenix Park the secret service guard an empty palace..
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