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GARDA COMMISSIONER NÓIRÍN O’Sullivan says there is “no single cause” that led to almost one million roadside breath tests being officially recorded despite never taking place.
O’Sullivan, together with her senior officers, has made her first appearance before the Policing Authority since the scandals surrounding Garda breath tests and court penalties first broke in late March, at Dublin Castle this morning.
The Commissioner avoided specific answers while being questioned by the authority’s members for the most part.
She said that the issues surrounding breath test recordings was “an issue that we identified ourselves”.
“When an organisation is going through a radical overhaul, it’s inevitable that we will identify good practice and weak practice. This was weak practice. But we mustn’t forget that the overall objective is to save lives, and to improve road-user behaviour,” she said.
O’Sullivan said that she is appointing Assistant Commissioner Michael Finn as a dedicated traffic commissioner in order to shore up the processes surrounding such data recording.
Asked as to how the sheer scale of the false breath tests had been missed by Garda management, O’Sullivan said that it is “too early to arrive at any definitive conclusion as to what led to this”.
“We will get to the bottom to how those figures did not alert local management,” she said.
The indications are that there were a number of factors. Having said that, it is simply not good enough.
Authority member Maureen Lynott suggested that, citing the fact that there was a 495% level of over-reporting in the Dublin West Garda division, it’s a mystery as to how “that kind of distortion did not catch anybody’s attention”.
“It is not reassuring, this business with the breath tests,” she added. “Surely interrogating such data is a basic management function?”
“It’s important that we get to the root cause of the problem, and to emphasise that there is no single cause,” O’Sullivan replied.
We’ve raised it with the chief superintendents and sergeants and inspectors, and everyone is being asked to account for their figures and as to why they didn’t flag with them.
Deputy Commissioner John Twomey added that “a number of things have been done in the last number of years with regard to data collection and classification”. “We need to deal with all the facts in this,” he said.
Authority member Judith Gillespie then asked Assistant Commissioner Finn whether, given the discrepancies seen with breath test statistics, he could be certain that the force’s statistics with regard to fatal road accidents are accurate.
“I’d have no question at all that our road traffic statistics are accurate,” Finn replied.
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Prohibition has failed and will fail. Legislators have created the unregulated cannabis industry by criminalising it. Legalise cannabis for recreational use, and regulate the potency, and eliminate chemical additives.
@Vic Murphy: and cocaine and heroin and whatever people will inject themselves with .. go go go ..
@Vic Murphy: 100% agree. These lads are dead right though as well. There is so much misinformation about perceived benefits of cannabis, CBD and THC. To go back to your point, the answer is to regulate safely while any potential benefits continue to be investigated.
@John Kelly: Big jump there Vic calm down. Have a smoke of a jeremy
@Vic Murphy: totally agree.
No one is sensible saying cannabis is totally harmless. It is relatively harmless in comparison to alcohol and many other activities that we consider normal.
These doctors are calling for more reaearch and that is a good thing. There are many doctors who would call for alcohol to be banned, despite the fact that would cause more harm than good, i wouldnt be surprised if these ten are in that group.
@John Kelly: I think we need to be really clear about two issues. First: what is deemed to be medical cannabis, and what is deemed to be recreational. The cannabis available illegally I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole. Provision of medical cannabis allows for safe prescription of a regulated substance grown for medical use.
Decriminalising is another issue, and at the centre of it is harm reduction, which is what people tend to forget. In Portugal the use of hard drugs has certainly decreased. Cannabis, no.
But what we have in Ireland right now doesn’t work – a drugs problem, and a medical access problem. Anything else must be better than this.
So 20 doctors in Ireland know more then the whole country of Canada which has fully legalized and most states in America and Spain has decriminalised. New Zealand is on its way but sure let 20 doctors dictate!.as far as I’m concerned alcohol cause’s mental disorders and psychosis and causes thousands of deaths each year so what’s there point.where is there proof that cannabis kills.We all know there are major health benefits of cannabis prohibition has failed time to regulate and tax and be aloud to grow your own.but rest assure our government will screw this up I have no doubt in that.Their friends in big pharma will lobby hard against this like they have been all along .
@Robert Phelan: This is quite an odd post. 20 doctors in ireland probably do know better than the whole country of canada 99% of whom are not medical professionals.
Also, they are not “dictating” anything. They have published a report highlighting concerns they have which the government should take into consideration when setting policy.
Some sort of de-criminalisation with regulation seems sensible to me particularly for those with chronic pain etc but I think the Doctors are dead right when they say there is a growing culture of “Ah sure a bit of weed never harmed anyone sure isn’t alcohol as bad” out there which ignores the fact weed does plenty of harm to certain people, those with addictive personalities, those with pre-existing mental health issues etc.
@John Kelly: why on earth would you put cannabis in the same category as heroin and cocaine?
@Michael O’Driscoll: because it is a controlled substance .. it is a mind altering mood changing psychoactive drug .. if u think its harmless you are listening to too much drug pushers..
@Kazoochka: one of these doctors was on the radio this morning they are not educated on this they are too one sided prohibition has failed and 20 doctors do not know more then hundreds of millions of people Kazoochka.the doctor that was on the radio this morning was even invited down to cork to see Vera towmeys daughter Ava so he could be educated on the health benefits of cannabis medication.this report is only about fear mongering that’s it. alcohol is by far the worst drug available in today’s society but your ok with that kazoochka. are you ok with the fact an 18 year old can buy a bottle of whiskey and down the whole lot in one nite and cause mayhem where is the regulation on that.your afraid of change kazoochka that’s all and big pharma are afraid of losing profits.theres nothing odd about my post
@John Kelly: heroin and cocaine are Class A drugs. Cannabis is not a class A drug. I did not say cannabis is not harmful. Personally I wouldn’t put them all together under the one umbrella. The ignorant do.
@John Kelly: So is alcohol and alcohol is listed as poisonous in its pure form. Dont even start me on the medication these doctors issue Benzos etc.
@Robert Phelan: You do realize it’s ” big pharma ” that will supply the medical weed and if it’s legalized and regulated it’s big pharma that will supply that too
@Francis Devenney: if you are correct that will be a travesty.
@Francis Devenney: big pharma are against this Francis make no mistake. the problem for them is medical cannabis can be grown by anybody therefore they can’t control it and can’t patent it and it covers a huge amount of medical illnesses.look at the jobs that would be created. Rural Ireland would explode with a new crop to grow.this country is far too dependent on big pharma for jobs.we need other industries as well too become less dependent on big pharma for jobs.this is a good thing if we regulate and control properly common sense is all that’s needed and education.
@Robert Phelan: theres a lot odd about your posts lad
@Kazoochka: O really so what’s odd there o wise one apart from your fake profile
These doctors probably do know more than a random bunch of journal commentators. The doctors will all have worked in phychatric wards at some stage and seen the damage that it can cause.
On the plus side – it might sedate a whole generation of people who are denied the opportunity of owning homes & having families
@Thomas Sheridan: so a small amount of people will have an adverse effect …these people if they have half a brain should know to keep clear of it its very simple. if not well they are to thick simple. I tried it didn’t agree with me and I’ll never do it again….to many people need to realise some people are dumb and legal or illegal they will try it even if they really should not.
@Ró: the proof is in the history of it’s use
Thousands of years used for many different conditions
I would ask who funds this group
Why is the rest of the world going 1 way but these guys no best
Holland regulate the strength of what is being sold 15% is the strongest
Prohibition does not work! The war on drugs does not work
Big pharma laughing all the way to the bank
@Kazoochka: yeah certain people .01 %
So we should all not be able to enjoy the pleasure of weed
Strictly speaking 25 years of age is when full brain development occurs
Let’s keep it to 15% for 21 n up
U then at least curtail thefangs and assure quality for the rest of us
@John Kelly: u know nothing ! Do your research n maybe u not look so utterly stupid
@Kazoochka: ignore this troll
@Al.Dunne: Actually it appears that frontal lobe development in most adults continues into the early 30s, not 25.
@John Kelly: John the 50s rang they looking for their attitude back..
@john doe: Francis is talking through his rear and he knows it.
@Al.Dunne: bang on the button AI.Dunne
@Peter Hughes: That’s the problem – they have half a brain now – but they were fine before smoking that stuff, sometimes only the once.
And that’s before considering the respiratory implications.
I’m not personally qualified to judge but I heed those with medical qualifications who are.
If any advocates for making it freely available cares to mention their medical qualifications I will give it due consideration
@Thomas Sheridan: it’s been used since we were chimps and before modern medicine was discovered, we don’t need 20 unnamed well funded 60 year olds to tell us history is wrong.
@Thomas Sheridan: proor to the last ten years or so only studies intended to discover negative consequences from the use of cannabis were permitted (in the US at least). Despite that scant or generally inconclusive negative effects were discovered. That is after 30 odd years looking for all these negative effects. There has been an explosion of positive findings in the last few years now that it is possible to get a licence to study tyia fasvinating plant.
While the views of experienced medical professionals should not be ignored, they are basing a lot on anecdotal evidence from those dealing with patients that would likely have issues anyway.
While it is not harmless, Relative to alcohol and other permitted activities it is harmless
the amount of people off their heads with no hope of recovery from prescription drugs is more troubling in my opinion. Perhaps doctors might think on that.
@Jude: the amount of people doing extremely well on prescription drugs is way more comforting and its backed up my medical science .. doctors are thinking very hard .. their primary rule is to do no harm so I assume if they are concerned about a new drug they need to highlight it .
@John Kelly: Sure they are
@Jude: Agreed, doctors need to stop taking out the prescription pad and instead TALK to their patients.
@John Kelly: lol cannabis a new drug……………Back under your rock john!!!
@John Kelly: here’s a fact John and your making a complete tit of yourself, look it up by researching it, that way you’ll educate yourself too, in New York state alone there are more people addicted to prescription drugs than people addicted to illegal drugs world wide.
@Jude: They do, at all expenses luxury conferences in Florida.
These doctors appear to be missing the point. The issue is not about the dangers of prolongued overuse of the drug. The issue is that criminalising camabis has done nothing to prevent it’s use, and instead helped criminals gangs to make tens of millions annually in untaxed income.
@Nicky O’Donnell: and the carnage that goes along with organised crime. Also the awful and dangerous additives criminal gangs add to the cannabis to increase potency
@Nicky O’Donnell: why do small sections and groups seem to hold so much of the voice on issues in this country, we still have religious nut jobs pushing to form policy and the likes of a handful of doctors causing panic through misinformation and out right exaggerations. These people prescribe far more dangerous drugs daily and have the neck to come on and start waffling about cannabis….these people really make me sick to the stomach.
@Nicky O’Donnell: But why is no one saying that the THC in cannabis now is stronger and out of balance compared to what it use to be in cannabis, this is causing brain damage to developing brains and causing permanent psychological problems and diseases in developing brains. Remembering a brain keeps developing until the age of 28…
Hopefully this won’t be used as an ongoing excuse to clamp down on CBD oil which had shown benefits controlling chronic idiopathic pain in some Air Corps colleagues.
@Chemical Brothers: hope they’re not flying when on it .. did they try nurofen ?
@John Kelly: CBD is the non psychoactive cannabinoid in Cannabis. The ‘high’ comes from THC .
@Bah Humbug Soon: did they try nurofen ? And is what they were using legal ? Has it been proven safe for pilots ?
@John Kelly: longterm nurofen use can damage your liver
@Damo: oh just googled it there and longterm nurofen use canresult in gastric ulcers increased blood pressure decreased kidney function,renal failure,heart failure and increased risk of stroke – but on the other side of things it is legal so much safer then smoking a joint
@John Kelly: Nurofen doesn’t work for chronic pain, and long term use has implications for the liver, and stomach and bladder lining. CBD oil does not. Low THC brands such as Charlotte’s Web can be very beneficial for some types of pain control – not all, but certainly some. Speaking from personal experience here.
@Damo: have to admit finding hard to believe that cannabis is causing more problems on the brain than alcohol. Are these doctors against cannabis but pro alcohol? Makes no sense.
@John Kelly: The colleague who has received most relief from CBD oil had previously reported intense chronic pain levels to his neurologist at 9 on a scale that maxed at 10.
He was subsequently found to have autonomous nervous system damage due to demyelination of his nerves which may have something to do with a hazing incident whereby he was tied up and doused in Trichloroethylene.
Thanks for the suggestion of Nurofen it was extremely useful…not. And you don’t have to worry about him flying aircraft because he’s currently flies a wheelchair / mobility scooter / leg braces / walking stick depending on his symptoms on a given day.
Been like that since his mid 30s.
@Cal Mooney: Them “doctors” are told what to say, little brown envelopes. Country is run on them.
@John Kelly: Neil Predervil will tell you all about the dangers of nurofen wine and flying, not illegal but frowned upon, w..king on a plane that is
@John Kelly: just shows how educated you are on the subject on THC and CBD. There’s a huge difference.
@John Kelly: You are some idiot ha
@John Kelly: You really have no idea about medication or its effects. Neith CBD, cannabis generally or pain killers.
@Cal Mooney: Big Pharma had to find a problem so they could make a synthetic version of it for profit.It by the was is extremely addictive unlike the natural product
@Damo: Are you referring to paracetamol, regarding liver damage?
(eg Solpadeine, etc)
(My understanding is that ibuprofen/nurofen can cause potentially fatal internal bleeds.)
(Oliver Sacks, in ‘an anthropologist on Mars’ remarks that ibuprofen (brand name nurofen), can cause achromatopic or dyschromatopic visual disturbance in some individuals, temporary loss, or alteration of colour vision.)
@John Kelly: Read up on the difference between THC & CBD.
I can honestly say this is the biggest load of garbage I have read in recent years. How much was the journal paid by big pharma to publish this utter nonsense. The “author” needs to assess their career….
@Nigel Mcatamney: It’s in the on-line Irish Times as well. It’s bought and paid for garbage there as well.
@Nigel Mcatamney: Why is it garbage? Because you disagree with it? Are the views of doctors who specialise in treating the consequences of cannabis use to be ignored? Big Pharma? You sound like one of those anti-vax cranks.
Let’s look at the evidence in the round. It is the high levels of THC that appear to be responsible for psychotic disorders. Could that be reduced if legalised and controlled. Yes perhaps. But if the damage is similar to cigarettes? Probably not. We need to assess all the evidence before deciding. The doctors are right to point out the dangers and these dangers viz THC are widely accepted especially in younger persons where the brain is still developing.
Throwing around nonsense like “garbage” and “Big Pharma” just makes you look like a conspiracy theorist.
@John R: If you believe for one minute that a group of doctors came together out of the goodness of their hearts, and concern for the public, you must believe in fairy tales.
These doctors and the pharmaceutical corporations are concerned about their pockets. Nothing else.
@Dave Doyle: Stop watching Alex Jones videos Dave
@John R: Doctors are supposed to tell the truth and not lie to the public. The only cranks here are the doctors who are openly lying distorting the truth. IMHO they are deliberately lying for with an ulterior motive. They are definitely not medical/scientific experts on cannabis. One lie among many from above ““Cannabis smoke contains the same cocktails of carcinogens and toxins as tobacco smoke and therefore it must be assumed that it brings with it all the medical risks associated with smoking cigarettes.””
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/
“
In conclusion, while both tobacco and cannabis smoke have similar properties chemically, their pharmacological activities differ greatly. Components of cannabis smoke minimize some carcinogenic pathways whereas tobacco smoke enhances some. Both types of smoke contain carcinogens and particulate matter that promotes inflammatory immune responses that may enhance the carcinogenic effects of the smoke. However, cannabis typically down-regulates immunologically-generated free radical production by promoting a Th2 immune cytokine profile. Furthermore, THC inhibits the enzyme necessary to activate some of the carcinogens found in smoke. In contrast, tobacco smoke increases the likelihood of carcinogenesis by overcoming normal cellular checkpoint protective mechanisms through the activity of respiratory epithelial cell nicotine receptors. Cannabinoids receptors have not been reported in respiratory epithelial cells (in skin they prevent cancer), and hence the DNA damage checkpoint mechanism should remain intact after prolonged cannabis exposure. Furthermore, nicotine promotes tumor angiogenesis whereas cannabis inhibits it. It is possible that as the cannabis-consuming population ages, the long-term consequences of smoking cannabis may become more similar to what is observed with tobacco. However, current knowledge does not suggest that cannabis smoke will have a carcinogenic potential comparable to that resulting from exposure to tobacco smoke.
It should be noted that with the development of vaporizers, that use the respiratory route for the delivery of carcinogen-free cannabis vapors, the carcinogenic potential of smoked cannabis has been largely eliminated [47,48].
@John R: i tend to agree that all the “big pharma” and corruption talk only serve to muddy the waters of valid debate.
That said there has been considerable documented funding by pharma companies of campaigns against legalisation of medicinal cannabis in american states. There is no doubt that medical cannabis will hurt their profits. Which is why pharma companies are trying to isolate and patent individual compounds from cannabis for sale for profit while at the same time lobbying to keep these compounds out of the hands of prople who can grow them for free.
You mention the evidence probably shows THC causes phycosis. However probably is not proof. The link is causal and not proven. Not saying cannabis is harmless but the risks are very low.
@john doe: Thanks for a considered response. The evidence js overwhelming that the very high levels of THC found in cannabis today causes serious problems for some people, especially some people. But it is the very high levels that cause this problem. Historically these levels would have been much lower and might only have been found in products like cannabis oil. Thus if the industry was regulated then cannabis with lower levels of THC could be made available without the harmful impact currently being experienced at the higher levels. The current high levels of THC have been compared to the effects of LSD. Some are more vulnerable than others. So regulation could potentially reduce the impact of high levels of THC.
@KingCrisp: goodness me such sweeping and libellous generalisations about medical professionals who are witnessing and treating the consequences of cannabis abuse. Unlike you. You believe that views contrary to your own amount to a conspiracy; a collusion with “Big Pharma” etc. I’d rather look at the science and not point the finger of blame at doctors who are treating addiction and probable know a great deal more about cannabis and its impacts on the human mind and body than you. What exactly are your qualifications? We have truly landed in the age of the denigration of expert views. By all means let’s critique those views. But with facts please and not wild, libellous and unsupported assertions.
@John R: agreed. If legal and regulated strength could be labelled and there would be more control of what youngsters can get their hands on. As it is we are doing the equivilant of a market selling only poitin when people want just beer.
This doesnt mean thc = bad
And there is no proof that thc causes schitzophrenia, only that there are considerable links between the two. It is not clear which causes which though.
@John R: Hope some of these people never need to refer one of their children. The doctor on radio this morning was very balanced and his input should be considered worthwhile.
@John R: your argument holds as much sway as alcohol affecting the livers of developing teenagers….. But sure go on there and have a few pints and a whiskey chaser. It’s nice and safe and taxable and harms nobody.
@John R: I’ve shown that they are lying, ergo they have ulterior motives. I’ve never mentioned big pharma. They could be sponsored by big pharma, but no information appears to be available about their ‘cannabis risk alliance’ group. They appear to be for prohibition and jailing nice people, ergo IMHO they hold antiquated views and want to jail people. They could be worried about cannabis, but they are spreading misinformation, the very thing that they are complaining about. There’s multiple falsehoods and scare tactics and the opposite to actual science. This has been the several attacks on recreational drugs in the past view weeks by the Gardai and this group. You say that they know more than me about cannabis, even though I’ve shown you a blatant lie from them. More research needs to be done, but these doctors are either deliberately telling lies or they aren’t as experts in this field, or both. The first link shows one of their blatant lies. The second shows that more research is needed, with experts who are not sure. Stress is one of the biggest causes of triggering schizophrenia along with other things and cannabis might only be a trigger for a preexisting condition. Alcohol is the main cause of dementia.
“Can cannabis use cause psychosis?
Yes, but so can overuse of caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, stimulants and hallucinogens. ”
“Consider cigarettes, the least mind-altering of these substances. In a 2015 study, a team led by Dr. Kenneth S. Kendler of Virginia Commonwealth University analyzed medical data on nearly two million people in Sweden. The data followed the individuals over time, from young adulthood, when most schizophrenia diagnoses occur, to middle age. Smoking was a predictor for later development of the disorder, and in what doctors call a dose-response relationship: the more a person smoked, the higher the risk.
Yet nicotine attracts nowhere near the concern that cannabis does”
Prohibition has forced high strength on the market. In the US their is a growing trend of lighter strength cannabis, a side effect of legalisation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/health/cannabis-marijuana-schizophrenia.html
@Dorothy: oh please think of the children argument ffs
@KingCrisp: These docs would sooner patients reliant on the “homicidal ideation” Mirtazapene.
Docs happy too to see Hutch & Kinahan continue to make millions from prohibition.
The guards must be in danger of losing some overtime and called in the medics for backup.
@John R IT is a plant and we all have an “Endocannabinoid system” Every human being on the planet has a right to use it. and no one has any right to deny anyone from using it. If you do not know anything about the “Endocannabinoid system” then you need to do some research.
Serious concerns about the long term effects of cannabis on memory and cognitive function…. is it that we are we only allowed have 1 such drug legalised, in the form of alcohol?
So many Irish families ruined by alcohol abuse BUT IT’S LEGAL AND TAXABLE SO IT’S OK LADS
You’d think the greedy eye of the Irish government would have turned to the colossal revenue being achieved in the US from the cannabis economy by now. It’s only a matter of time until they change their tunes when they realise how it could line their pockets.
@Rachel: so let’s now also destroy more Irish families through cannabis use as well as alcohol, but tax it and legalise it
@Ed Collins: people are using cannabis anyway. So let’s control it better to reduce harm.
@Ed Collins: so let’s bury the head in the sand and pretend what we are doing now is working…well pal it’s not and never will. change of direction is needed on drugs if you can’t see that you are blind or ignorant or just plane dumb.
@Ed Collins: bs
@Ed Collins: u show me a guy smoking a joint and I’ll show u guy not causing any1 any trouble
@Ed Collins: u show me a guy smoking a joint and I’ll show u guy not causing any1 any trouble
@Ed Collins: u show me a guy smoking a joint and I’ll show u guy not causing any1 any trouble
20 doctors. That’s it. All bought and paid for by the pharma industry no doubt in efforts to muddy the waters to keep those perscriptions flowing. They should be ashamed of themselves.
@Wade Wilson: suspiciously lacking information about them and who funds them on the internet.
@Liam Fahey: Exactly. Cannabis Risk Alliance is apparently 20 doctors who never give out their names or have any official website or organisation information but do from time to time send out press releases telling people marijuana is bad and needs more study. They have no publicly known qualifications or offices or anything. It could just be some fella with an email account.
@Liam Fahey: agreed I could find nothing re who funds this group, why is that ?
@Wade Wilson: and your qualifications??
@Wade Wilson: ha ha! This is comedy gold! And the best bit is, you don’t even realise it!
I am all for reviewing studies and analysis of how they were done. A doctor I know pointed out that a recent study showed 100% increase in psychosis around cannabis users. Sound like a huge issue except it was an increase from 0.001% to 0.002% and a very small study. Having years of data analytics under my belt means I know that this is not a sound significant figure to base anything on. Doctors are not experts in all fields and not experts on statistics. Nothing of significance has come up from place where cannabis is legal.not saying it harmless just is is patently obvious that for centuries humans have used this plant and been ok.
@Craic_a_tower: A huge amount of doctors are winging it day in day out just like everyone else.
Still safer than alcohol, and I’m sure these doctors love a pint
Cannabis can be associated with risks of psychosis / mental disorder *IF* the strains feature super high levels of THC and other cannaboids / alkaloids that cause confusion / disorientation. Low quality “Super Skunk” can cause all kinds of issues… and so can types of hashish mixed with who knows what for maximum profit.
*YET*
A friend of mine based in the USA has a whole research organisation dedicated to helping people set up dispensaries or work in this industry. My understanding from him and his colleagues is that when cultivated properly, regulated properly, issued by a dispensary, the risks of dodgy super skunk or tainted / cut hashish are dramatically minimised.
So whoever this working group is needs to think this through carefully. Many of the risks associated, which are viable risks, are there because it is illegal.
@Thomas O’Duffy: Good post. But this is exactly why we should consider all the evidence before doing anything.
Utter tubbish, they are worried about losing their backhanders from pharma for pushing their harmful opiate drugs, government seem to be cracking down hard on this medicine in the last few days, taking down harmless CBD shops, it’s a disgrace
@noel cox: who says its harmless ? The illegal growers like the cocoa producers
@John Kelly: oh dear
@John Kelly: The medicine has been around for 12,000 years. Only since 1937 was it deemed evil.
@Dave Doyle: so is cocaine .. that’s harmless too I suppose ..
@John Kelly: cocaine was only isolated from the coca leaf in the last 150 years. Cannabis has been used in its natural state for the thousands of years.
Neither are totally harmless. It would be foolish to suggest otherwise. Cannabis however is relatively harmless when compared to cocaine, alcohol, mountain climbing or horseriding.
If people choose they can get high from airesol cans. Far more dangerous than cannabis yet noone is suggesting to ban them. Go figure.
@John Kelly: Most things you do in life can be made illegal using prohibition laws. Watch the trailer and then the documentary that shows prohibition is not only idiotic, it also harms people and enriches gangland mafias. Sugary drinks alone, kills three times more people than heroine. If you use prohibitions logic sugar would be made illegal. Everyone involved in producing sugar, selling it and consuming it would be jailed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRvo9QabEIg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLT6AFsTm74
@John Kelly: Nothing that’s mixed with hydrochloric acid is harmless.
@thesaltyurchin: eh, no, if you mix baking soda and water with hydrochloric acid it neutralises it, rendering it totally harmless
All these articles are ifs and buts and extreme cases. Some predisposed people may have detremental affects under certain circumstances etc etc !! .
Sure isint that the same for all drugs prescribed or non-prescribed.
Legalisation or decriminalisation is not about the the percecived harms, but to to take recreational canabis users out of illegality.
Portugal and the Netherlands are closing prisons not building new ones.
I have been using cannabis and hasish ( amoung other things ) for over 30 years, I work as a Consultant in the Tech sector, constantly learning new technologies and constantly adapting to change, I am regulary working in Ireland and Europe, and when in a new area of Europe and most areas I can get what I want within 30 mins.
I have been working constantly for just over 26 years now have not missed a days work due to illness or any other issue in over 20 years, I have not been to a doctor in over 15 years and never been to hospital. I know many people like me. When younger some friends did not like cannabis, it made them fell paranoid etc and quess what, they didnt use it anymore, quite simple really, we all still meet regulary and the users and non-users haev no issue with the others choices etc.
As for these 20 Doctors, who are they ?, who is paying them ? etc etc.
Do not listen to any of these or others, make up your own minds and if you dont have experience of cannabis, keep your ill informed opinions to yourself.
Why don’t these 20 doctors pin a letter on the destruction alcohol is having on the lives of people the length and breath of this country, and they should know because they see it’s effects in A and E from week to week.
@Tom Ryan: over 9,000 people die in Ireland every year from skin cancer and the same from lung cancer. Who cares tho eh!
@thesaltyurchin: 9,000 people die every year die from cancer all included not 9,000 of both, 2,500 people are diagnosed with lung cancer (almost equally slplit now between men and women) most will die
Prohibition does nothing but make criminals rich…adults can make their own choices. As much as I am against personally taking any mind altering substance, I don’t see any value in trying to stop adults taking whatever drug, be it alcohol or heroin…or whatever, people will do it anyway. It would be safer, and less harmful to society as a whole if all drugs were legalized and regulated.
Should be legal for recreational use. 10 years sober off the dirty drug alcohol all thanks to cannabis. Saved my life..
Look at the many raids by garda daily clearly shows law enforcement are losing the battle.
People are gonna smoke if they want too, easy access online to purchase weed, we need to wake up, legalise and tax it. Maybe money made could home the 14000 homeless we have living on the streets..
Definitely worth investigating
People will smoke cannabis regardless of whether it is legal or not!!! Do they not understand this.
@Paul Howlin: Legalize and regulate
@Paul Howlin:”People will do [x] regardless of whether its legal or not” could be used as an excuse to legalize an awful lot of things.
@Kazoochka: Yeah but in this case it’s being used for Cannabis.
@Kazoochka: yes but it is far more relevant to cannabis because using it harms no one else especially if legalised.
Unlike murder which people will also do anyway but is rightly illegal as it has victims.
@Kazoochka: like what ?
A campaign is needed to counteract the damage done by the “Reefer Madness” brigade
@Joe Phillips: what damage? Fancy a pint?
@Al.Dunne: op is referring to the damage caused by American propaganda intended to demonise cannabis.
I’d rather a smoke than take 6 kinds of tablets laced with chemicals each day damaging my liver and side effects,can’t overdose on cannabis or die from it,pharma just a money racket
@Patti o furniture: Look up German Wings flight 9525 & Mirtazapene for an eye opener.
The govt
Ironic..
Doctors that on a daily basis prescribe drugs such as Lyrica and xanax, ruin lives through getting the innocent addicted and don’t seem to have a problem doing this?
Maybe they prefer to keep people heavily addicted to dangerous drugs rather than take a non addictive easy to grow yourself one?….
@David Grey: Prescription of a “family annihilation” pill or a “murder suicide” pill actually covers their arse and shows them to be proactive when manure hits the fan.
Doctors are the drug pushers for big pharma, with all the side effects that that brings. Big pharma are obviously worried, that the increased use of cannabis, will lead to a decrease in their ruthless profits. And when big pharma splash the cast, their is no shortage of front men to do their bidding. The consequences of over medication has been devasting for society. Think, antibiotics, blood pressure and cholesterol meds. The evidence is out there but big pharma are able to lobby it out of praftical existence and their profits go up, along with peoples dependencies. But peoples overall health decreases.
@John O’Hara: John human life expectancy has never been as high as it is now. Largely due to modern medicine and hygiene practices introduced on foot of modern medicine. Yes over-medication is a problem to be sure. Especially the use of antibiotics in animals to facilitate intensive farming. But the biggest cause of human illness is obesity, bad diet and lack of exercise and the demand from consumers for a pill to facilitate a quick fix to very ailment. Let’s not be too quick to denigrate modern medicine while admitting it’s deficiencies and let’s look in the mirror at our own behaviour while we are at it.
@John R: Do not confuse length of life with ‘health’. It is in the drug companies interest to keep people alive, but not healthy. Dead people can’t buy drugs and healthy people dont need to buy drugs. Alive and dependent is the way big pharma want you. Their lobbying and spinning ensure that position. The truism here is that, power wins over truth, sadly. Evil thrives where good people do nothing, or are just naive and taken advantage of.
Maybe there are problems with the dope, but I am for anything that takes away product from criminal gangs and cartels and makes it public. The biggest lobbyists against legalising stuff are probably the cartels.
Medical or recreational, the government need to let the people decide and put it to a vote.
I have many years experience of caring for a person with schizophrenia, believe me , if using Cannabis risks developing psychosis don’t go there. Young people should be taking part in healthy recreation like sports and the hundreds of other activities that young people have the energy to do o stead of being off their heads on cannabis.
@Aine O Connor: I have many years helping my father who has parkinsons, at first Cannabis was a great help to him, he could go tot golf range and swing a club after taking cannabis, he didnt want to get ‘stoned’ though, so now I get CBD oild fro him and he is like a new man. As for your referencenc, something like less than 1% of people are predisposed to possbile pyschosis from cannabis usage, so by your logic no one should try anything if 1% may not agree with it !!!
As for the sports and activities which of course is a good idea, but young peoople with the heads in smart phones and on socali media all day is far worse than having a spliff and chilling out.
@Gowon Geter:
According to callers to Liveline today drugs are freely available in secondary schools and are rampant in Universities. The Cannabis on the market now they said is far stronger than it used to be. It is accepted as normal one caller said to use drugs and probably many start with Cannabis. The Doctors who wrote the letter are mostly psychiatrists and they are seeing at first hand the consequences . My relative never took drugs so that had no role in her mental illness . My point is that serious mental illness is so devastating why would anyone risk their future for a few thrills.Saying that for medical conditions it appears to be a Godsend.
There is also the issue of keeping criminals in a luxurious lifestyle paid for through other people’s misery.
@Aine O Connor: If it’s regulated, you can choose a lower dose. Right now, everyone’s offering the strongest they can breed, so that’s all consumers can buy.
Alcohol is also accepted as normal, yet I’d advise people not to consume it..
Those doctors are also only seeing the victims, we can’t admit to consuming it so the figures are totally skewed.
I’m not saying it can’t cause harm, but it’s so obvious what we’re doing now is severely broken and puts good honest people on the same level as career criminals.
@Aine O Connor: first off. I wouldn’t be basing any argument on anecdotal stories from the Joe Duffy show!
Secondly, even if all the things you say are true, freely available in schools etc. In a legal controlled system it would be easier to control strength and availability to teens.
Finally.. these 20 docs are basing their argument on worse case scenarios. Yes they may see lots of people with severe mental issues who also smoke cannabis, cigarettes and drink alcohol. Yet they decide, without medical proof, that it is the cannabis that caused the issues. It is accepted that drink and drugs can trigger mental issues if already there. No proof that it creates new mental issues.
@john doe:
The parents on liveline told how their children’s lives were destroyed by the use of drugs including Cannabis. Also in countries where it has been legalized more people are using it. One man rang in to say his life has been ruined because of it. I believe them, they have no reason to make it up. Another man said that he used to take it years ago but it was mild in comparison to what’s available now.
I think Cannabis Oil it’s essential for some people with certain medical conditions but for others they need to be informed of the possible consequences .
The Politicians are taking too much Coke and god knows what they are Smoking ?
@Pl O’neill: good man PJ .. the anti empire rant straight away .. true to form.. you forget the EU
Why aren’t they looking to talk about the pros AND cons? Why only focus on the negatives of something we know (whether they like it or not) has many positives? Sorry
@Joe Phillips: no idea where that ‘sorry’ came from
How much are the pharmaceutical company’s paying you to subscribe there drugs……
Read that in the paper, terribly written for such educated people. They started by stating what seemed to be there intention for the ‘letter’ in the Times, proposing a two fold nature of the argument, (of medical and decriminalising) and then went on to write about how it may be damaging for young people if legalised. Pretty weak. Also it appears as tho we’re talking about 20 or so doctors. One thing we can all agree on is how hard it is to find a good doctor these days, especially if your dealing with specific ailments that need specialist understanding.
I take several medications, some partially toxic, damaging to my body and all developed by big pharma. If I didn’t take them I’d be dead. I’m satisfied with most of big pharma.
Cannabis is not a gateway drug it’s just seen to be, as someone who is open minded enough to try it, is more likely to try other drugs. It has nothing to do with Cannabis and nowadays I’d say more people’s first time drug to try is cocaine, considering it is more easily available than Cannabis, witch was never the case 10 years ago…. we are experiencing a cocaine epidemic and no doctors coming out against it…
Whoever can afford to spend €50 a day on cannabis and smoke €50 worth of cannabis every day, must be a millionaire with nothing to do! When was the last time any of these doctors put a few quid behind an organisation tackling alcohol abuse in Ireland?
Well then the doctors should have the balls to presribe it for mecidinal complaints. Then they have control over a small minority who do use it for mecidinal purposes. They have the power to do so, meanwhile the wingers who are on the payroll of the pharma companies can keep on whingeing.
Why are doctors trying to confuse the oil with those who smoke it, the healing properties of cannabis is in the oil and not in smoking it.
Smoking it just will make you high but the oil has the properties to cause damage cells to commit suicide and allows healthy cells to replace them.
The cannabis now is not the same as it was 30, 40 years ago as the cannabis now can damage the brains of teenagers causing psychotic episodes because the balance between the the THC is far greater than the other compounds that act like anti-psychotics. It seems the doctors are confusing THC with CBD on purpose in my view but why?
Maybe we should outlaws nuts, they can kill a small amount of the population.
@Al.Dunne: what about scuba diving. Lots of people die from that.
No one has ever died from cannabis poisoning yet it is possible to die from caffeine poisoning and we have no problem with that.
The double standards are mind boggling.
@Al.Dunne:
Stupid comment . People with nut allergies carry epipens for emergencies
Madness legalising cannabis
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