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GARDAÍ FEEL THAT their lives are being put at risk due to a decision by garda authorities to withdraw the Uzi submachine gun from detective units, TheJournal.ie can reveal.
The decision to withdraw the Uzi was taken in March last year after a review by garda authorities. One of the reasons for the withdrawal of the gun was that it was deemed unsuitable for incidents that might occur in a confined room, like in a bank for example.
At the same time revolvers carried by armed detectives were replaced by Sig Sauer semi-automatic handguns that all detective units now carry holstered to their belt.
A spokesperson for the garda press office said that the Uzi was taken out of service “because it no longer fulfilled the requirements”.
The press office said the Sig Sauer handgun was “identified to best meet the policing needs” of An Garda Síochana and that specialist units such as the Emergency Response Unit and Regional Support Unit have the MP7 submachine gun at their disposal.
Sources said gardaí are not looking to have every person in the force armed with most “happy to do their duty” in the knowledge that they have armed backup if required. However in situations like armed escorts, many gardaí are worried about their lack of fire power.
Detective Garda Adrian Donohoe
A source who knew Garda Detective Adrian Donohoe said they were “bothered about the fact that he was not sufficiently armed” when he was shot dead by armed robbers at a credit union in Dundalk.
“Had this attack on Adrian occurred a year earlier, he would have had the Uzi locked and loaded and resting in his lap as was common practice when escorting cash-in-transit vehicles,” they said.
Previously an armed escort unit of two detectives would have a handgun each and a Uzi machine gun, which the passenger in the car would carry. Now gardaí are asking for these guns to be replaced as they worry about facing criminals with superior firearms.
While the handgun is semi-automatic and has a high rate of firepower, it has a shorter range than the Uzi and sources said the image of an armed garda standing with a larger submachine gun in his hand while performing security duty or at arms checkpoints can work as a “visual deterrent”.
Armed response units
As the garda press office pointed out, the emergency response and regional support units are armed with powerful MP7 submachines but it is understood that there are large area gaps and at times a lack of personnel which leaves gardaí feeling vulnerable.
In a recent attack on a garda in Tallaght, in which he sustained ‘serious facial injuries’, it took nearly half an hour for the armed response unit to arrive as the two responding gardaí waited in the bathroom of the house where they had barricaded themselves.
One garda told TheJournal.ie that colleagues feel they do not have enough armed support “to protect the community and indeed ourselves”.
“I was never an advocate of arming the guards and I’m still proud of the tradition of not having an armed police force but it’s getting ridiculous now,” they said.
The feeling among most members is that we are sitting ducks, and more attacks of this nature are bound to happen. I’m not suggesting that every guard should be armed, but it could be more appropriate to have one uniformed armed response unit for each district. This member would perform all the duties a regular uniformed officer, with the added responsibility for dealing with particularly violent or armed suspects.
When contacted by TheJournal.ie, President of the Garda Representative Association (GRA) John Parker said the failure of the garda authorities to replace the Uzi submachine “has been a serious concern”.
In the same review of firearms last year, a decision was made to cut back on training for firearms cards, which all gardaí carrying a gun must have. Garda authorities decided to downscale the number of cardholders particularly in rural areas and for detectives working mainly on white collar crime.
Parker said this “is another worry and it has left members without adequate resources,” he said. “Members are being exposed to unnecessary risk.”
In a statement the Department of Justice said that Minster Shatter has no direct function in this matter and that the decision to withdraw the Uzi last year was that of the Garda Commisioner.
In that context the Commissioner determines the appropriate measures to be put in place, including the specific firearms to be deployed, without reference to either the Minister or his Department.
The department said that garda authorities “have indicated that at present the armed capability of garda members is provided by district detective units supported by other units”.
“In addition, they have made arrangements to co-ordinate armed response measures throughout the country, it added. “In view of the operational nature of the functions involved, it would not be appropriate to comment on how the relevant resources might be deployed.”
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Unless our gardai are better armed, they might as well be our children with toys doing the escorts and such duties. I’m amazed that they even stand for such bullying from higher authorities who are sitting behind desks and pushing pens. I wouldn’t be so quick to be a sitting duck!
Better armed yes, the uzi is an extremely inaccurate weapon, they are better of with the sig automatic pistol, or purchasing the glock 18, machine pistols are more than sufficient for a bank situation imo. The positive of this is anybody carrying a shotgun or rifle( literally its heavier) and takes longer to lift to shoot where as a pistol is lighter and quicker to raise, and in a situation where every mili second counts the auto pistol is trumps.
The Uzi might be inaccurate but when a decision is made that something is to be withdrawn then the sensible thing to do is to address the reasons for withdrawing it in a replacement in which there can be confidence.
That’s the bottom line with it really.
The positives you have listed are ones for which those with a decent knowledge of firearms can recognise. However, let’s be honest, one of the big benefits of a big gun is the intimidation factor. The auto pistol simply doesn’t have that.
Uzi is inaccurate on full auto but nobody in their right mind would make that selection. When on the semi selection it is a fantastic extremely accurate weapon unless u have a cabbage using it. Just because something is old doesn’t mean it’s crap. Lets b realistic this is all down to cost nothing to do with safety.
My understanding from the article is that the UZI was designed as an additional weapon to supplement the side arm carried, namely the Smith & Wesson revolver, or more recently upgraded to the semi-auto Sig Saur hand gun.
The issue here it seems to be is that the supplementary weapon is being withdrawn without first putting in place a replacement weapon and thus leaving Gardaí vulnerable without the availability of a rapid burst sub-machine gun and the obvious tactical advantages it brings to the party.
Glock 18 machine pistols for cops…. You obviously been watching to many movies on youtube.
Absolute rubbish . The uzi is perfectly accurate if handled correctly and fired semi auto or 2 round bursts. Yes it will decimate a room but that’s only in the movies and on full auto. And Yes, I Do know what I’m talking about.
Paul white you dont know what youre talking about
Barry
Your amazed they even stand for such bullying from senior authorities who sit behind desks! My my what a little and ignorant revolutionary we have here. Let’s make it clear that these decisions are made by hard nosed experienced experts who wish to protect both the Gardai and the public when a need for gun use arises. The Uzi behaves like a paint spray and in confined areas can cause massive collateral injury and death. For my part I never understood why they were used by the Gardai. For your part you believe that a sensible decision by Management needs to be challenged by junior Gardai. I presume you work in a non Management role?
the gards allowed drug pushers and other crims to operate in working class areas of this country in exchange for information on irish republicans, nationalists, socialists and any other group of people they could get info on…
The gards created gangs………
Now the druggies and the crims have moved in to middle class estates where some gards live……….
Now the guards want sub machine guns……..
Roflmfao………………
Incorrect. The Uzi is a very accurate gun for something so simple and easily maintained. It’s purpose was to provide Gardai with greater firepower in armed situations and is miles more accurate than any pistol or revolver. Pistols are inaccurate over any distance and I’m talking more than 15metres here. No matter what make of pistol sig, smith & Wesson, glock, it’s the barrel length that has the biggest bearing on accuracy outside of skill. The uzi’s barrel is anywhere between 3 and 5 times the length of some of the side arms. The revolver was replaced for a pistol to increase rate of fire, 15 rounds as opposed to 6.
It was a like for like upgrade so to speak. The Uzi is a smg and a different type of gun. It was not replaced by the sig, nor could it be replaced by a pistol. The rsu and eru have the mp7 which is an upgrade of the Uzi.
Be under no illusion taking the Uzi out of service was purely a cost saving exercise which saved €160k last year. It’s fine in areas like cities that have rsu and eru units nearby but there are parts of the country that are 2 hours away from such cover. The Uzi might never have to be used but its nice to know its there.
All citizens should have the right to bear arms just like Switzerland. The state should not have the monopoly on armed power.
Welcome to the 18th century when horses are the get away cars.
Grow up irish police the world is moving too fast for you
Peter Daly, the uzi recall was cost saving exercise. And the majority of Detectives would have far more service and police experience that alot of management who made the decision.
Even in Switzerland the country’s gun regulation is classified as ‘restrictive’.
all these guards logged on in garda stations getting paid while they comment………….
that’s called theft………
arrest yourselves……lmao……….
The Uzi is not intended for use by Gardai in confined spaces nor for use on full auto. You’re basing your opinion on movies, its not like that in the real world! Your description of how it fires shows you haven’t a clue what you’re on about. Yes there are more accurate guns available but the Uzi was suitable especially now that the funds aren’t available for an upgrade.
One of the main factors in firearm accuracy outside of the shooters ability is barrel length. The Uzi’s barrel is between 3 and 5 times the length of the side arms carried by Gardai so do the math!!
The reason it has been retired is down to money and they saved €160k last year as a result. Well worth it eh! But then those ‘senior management’ behind desks will never have to worry about being shot for the want of being able to shoot back.
I don’t know much about guns, they scare the Hell out of me, so I’m not going to attempt to debate about something I’ve never used or are completely unfamiliar with, I’ll leave that to all the other cowboys here.
To my mind the issue here is that someone has taken the decision to withdraw a piece of equipment our gardai would normally use without first having a replacement for it. I’d imagine an uzi or an MP7, if used correctly, would have a similar effect but both would also provide a visible deterrent and at the end of the day there should be considerable input from those who use these pieces of equipment. They may as well withdraw garda cars with a view to replacing them with something, eventually.
Funny you should say this, I myself am in the permanent defence forces for the past ten and a half years. My job is armourer(gunsmith) I go to the range a good deal of the time, so yes I do know what I am talking about.
Any Weapon, is only as accurate as the person using it.
Incorrect. Like I said, I am an armourer (gunsmith in the army) I go to the range regularly as its my job to know weapons inside out, I have ten and a half hears experience in the army. I am qualified in, steyr5.56, the g.p.m.g, the usp, the accuracy international, both types of m203, the 60 and 81 mm mortar, the sraaw, the 84, etc etc etc. In addition to my job as a weapons expert, I am a member of a gunclub (we fire guns). So my misinformed friend, I do not base my view on ‘films’, I base it on the expert knowledge and training I received in the military college d.f.t.c curragh camp. Currently in lebanon with the e.o.d team, so I will tell you whether or not the weapon is accurate, not the other way around……..
I think it safe to say niall healy, that I know exactly what I am talking about. You on the other hand prob fired the weapon or one or two others, it is my full time profession to know weapons like back of my hand ok, perhaps you should have asked before advancing that I dont know what I am talking about…..niall you just never know who you are talking to………
my point Paul was that no matter how accurate the Weapon, if a donkey doing the shooting isnt able to fire off a decent group, well then the weapon isnt going to do it for them. I dont feel the need like you to list my qualifications on here, but i am suitably trained to instruct on the safe handling/ firing of Firearms, I also have experience of Firing the Uzi so im afraid sir, i will tell you that it is an accurate weapon
If the person holding the weapon is albert einstein or forest gump is almost competely irrelevant, recoil is the same no mater who pulls the trigger. Accuracy is not the strong point of an uzi like it or not. If you dont want to list qualifications thats up to you, I dare say your range experience and weapon experience is not as extensive as mine. I do this for a living john, an individuals ability to shoot is a factor betwen correct breathing and short controlled bursts, but the weapon itself must have low recoil for accuracy in addition to a good firer, also we are not talking about range practice here its fire fight situations in which the uzi is an obsolete inaccurate not fit for purpose machete.
That’s just stupid Paul – Forrest Gump is a fictional character.
im not disagreeing with who you are saying you are, My point is that if a properly trained person entered a building with an UZI carried at the ready, and a target presented itself inside said building at a distance of no more that 50 feet(which would be a good distance indoors)- if your holding and firing procedure is correct-regardless of the recoil, there is no excuse for not putting a 2-3 round burst on target . however place Forest Gump as you put it, into the same situation i can guarantee not one round would hit the target. therefore the weapon is only as accurate as the person holding it.
the uzi is still used by Israeli forces it is not an antiquated it is a very efficient weapon with the same caliber as the sig which is the pistol used by the gardai. a good shoulder fired weapon would be the MP5 same caliber so no issues with ammunition and it is a very efficient firearm either that or the P19 also a good weapon it is also a bull-pup design which means it is a smaller weapon and easier to carry
Israeli armed forces, paramilitaries and law enforcement started taking the Uzi out of service in the early 00′s as far as I’m aware.
What police have machine pistols?
Paul you may be in the army but that does not change the fact that the uzi is a very accurate weapon. The army dont have many dealings with the uzi so that may be why your confused
Saying an UZI is a ‘very accurate weapon’ is a bit of a stretch at the least!
I agree with the closed room scenario but Gardai escorting cash in transit need something that can deter attacks or stop criminals.
Firstly, who are these hard nosed experienced experts? Secondly, the Uzi is accurate while being used in semi automatic mode in short bursts with proper training. Thirdly, Yes I do think that rank and file gardai or as you say junior gardai should contest management. That’s the way the world turns. It’s not a dictatorship you know! Finally, judging by your one track comments I’m guessing that you are in a management role?
am sure the people making these decisions wont be a sitting duck. NO THEY WILL BE FAR AWAY IN THE OFFICE
Indeed. AK47′s are the obvious replacement.
The sig is a machine pistol (carried by the gardai).
The Gardai never have, don’t and probably never will use machine pistols. Police hardly ever use machine pistols. You haven’t a clue!
the UZI does what its supposed to do, its not a sniper rifle but for close quarters its more than accurate enough. I do think in 2014 its time to at least upgrade to the MP5 or the MP7 simply because they’re newer and better options. The glock 18 however, has no place whatsoever in policework, You decry the UZI as being inaccurate, at least it has a stock, the average police officer in the states, where police officers have a lot more trigger time in general would have difficulties being as accurate as needed with a spray and pray gun like that. Hence nobody here uses them. Not the military, not the police. To your point about the rifle being heavy and the pistol being easier, while its true the rifle is heavy, (in the case of the US M4 rifle about 9.5 lbs) the rifle is slung across the front of the body, whereas the pistol is holstered at the hip, generally in a triple retention holster. Its far easier to bring a rifle up than draw a pistol, Anyone (including myself) thats ever made a living with a gun can attest to that. I think the MP7 is a fine weapon, and should probably be expanded in service. Its controllable, has very little recoil, and packs a good punch compared to subgun calibers. It can also defeat soft body armor and kevlar helmets. (they say it can defeat sapi plates, but im incredulous about that) I dont see a 5.7mm shorty round doing what 7.72 nato cant. The Sig Sauers are good as well, I swear by them and have owned about 7 of them over the past decade or so. My father has carried one on duty for 15 years and I carry a P220 .45 acp myself. I will say, going back to the Glock 18, for my 2 cents, id take a semi auto rifle over a full auto pistol any day. Only hits count and anything with a stock and better purchase on the weapon will deliver you more hits.
Why not just replace the Uzi with the H&K MP7?
I agree, Uzi’s are so passé now. I mean when ever I see an Uzi I think OMG am I in 1983 again!
Gotta run,
Adebayo
The UZI was originally designed in 1948 (in Israel) would you believe.
Dave I would believe it, because between me and you there are no lies
Adebayo ; you don’t look fit enough to run for an hour !
Why not just replace the Uzi with the H&K MP7?
COST!!And TBH its not a sub machine gun either.Its called a personal defence weapon or PDW. And just as dangerous as a sMG as it s ammo is designed to penetrate body armour and still has full auto capability.
Lads,for once we are seeing some sensible comments on a subject here on the journal.ie,but TBH IMVHO full auto weaponary has little or no place in a LE enviroment in day to day usage.It is a specialist tool needed by a SWAT unit maybe for a room clearing exercise or such.And there are much better alternatives than an UZI out there now.Plus most units are going to either ultra short carbines like the HK Mp5 K or whatever for the first guy into the room,and most still prefer the short pump action for that job.
Realistically how many ERU or ASU will need to da a room clearing on a day to day basis??
Issue whats fit for purpose to contain a threat,and leave the full auto stuff to the battlefield.
Ha! It’s the hormones
Sinabhfuil,
Garda Detectives have been armed since the foundation of the State.The Uzi replaced the Thompson as the sub machines gun issued to the force .Even moral authority isn’t bullet proof.
Just a question ( to which I don’t know the answer ) has the Uzi ever rescued a critical situation …. or just created carnage ? I seem to remember , I think it was a tip off on a bank raid , that all sorts of damage was caused by this gun including innocent bystanders and gardai being hit by bullets in this occasion ….. I was lead to believe that this weapon was a fearsome but inaccurate weapon whose primary use was as a deterrent which is probably redundant now as most of the coked up morons they are meant to deter couldn’t care less.
Detective Sergeant John Eiffe of the National Surveillance Unit was fatally wounded by accidental friendly fire from a member of the Emergency Response Unit at Abbeyleix in a failed bank robbery attempt in 2001.
He wasn’t hit by a round from an UZI; he was hit by some shotgun pellets which ricocheted off the ground. Get your facts right before posting.
Read my post… I never said he was hit by a discharge from an UZI. I was just pointing out the last Guard to be shot in a friendly-fire incident.
Well said sandbag too many know it alls commenting on weapons here. The Uzi is a class weapon the Israel military designed it and they know their stuff
Yes, but to be fair UZI SMG is a 65 year old design. H&K MP7 is just 12 years old.
That was a ricochet.
Yes, it was a ricochet rather than friendly fire. It was an accident.
May he rest in peace …. The incident I was trying to recall was I think in trim co Meath … Some bystanders were shot accidentally … one in the ankle I remember …. that could be 30 years ago
Seriously … We are referencing the IDF as knowing there stuff ??? The source of more botched operations then a back street clinic !
aahh dave
Rick o shea didn’t do it…..
that’s state propaganda, he was shot in the back of the head by a garda
Do you believe in the Easter bunny too?
@harry,
Jim is, unfortunately your typical guard, with his pig ignorant the guards can’t do no wrong attitude
That was Athy in the late 1980s.
The Uzi is known as the crowd killer because of its inaccuracy. There are far better guns out there
Thats true and its not even scary against real criminals. If they want a visual deterrent, they should put a M249 on the top of garda’s van during special op… I shot with one in the Us. Its totally inacurate but its a very scary machingun.
The Heckler & Koch MP7 submachine gun is a perfect replacement. Some Garda units already are issued with them (Regional Support Unit, Emergency Response Unit, Special Branch & the Bureau of Criminal Investigation).
Alternatively, arm them with the larger Heckler & Koch MP5, like PSNI officers carry.
what if it was a crowd of criminals?
MP5′s are also not that powerful when up against the like of the AK47. US Secret Service hate them, and are crying out for M4′s ( quite similar to the M16) which has better stopping power, more reliable, and a longer range if caught in an ambush. But that’s just my opinion…
Yeee Haaaaw….. Happy shootin’ boys….. I’d like to see that!
An M249 is not inaccurate. The shooter might be but the gun isn’t. I carried one for many years and had no problem hitting exactly what I wanted to hit.
M4 and M16 carbine rifles are enormous weapons. They are more military weapons than Police weapons. The Garda ERU have assault riles and carbines if needed, but what the 2,000 armed Detectives need are smaller sub machine guns. Like I said, the H&K MP7 is a perfect replacement in the long term for the UZI SMG. The MP5 is larger, but it is still a fearsome firearm.
Carbine is not an enormous weapon. The carbine is a short barrel, collapsible stock version of the m4 or whatever model it’s based on.
Try clearing a room with an assault rifle or a carbine. Good luck.
You have no idea how much I would like to try that
secret service have upgraded to the FNH P90 for subguns and have rifles like the M4 and HK G36 (so do US Capitol Police)
The Uzi is an antique and it was an embarrassment to see them still in use. That said, they should be replaced with a modern sub machine gun to ensure the Guards can still handle criminals who could well be coming at them with an AK 47
And it’s correct that you should mention the AK47….. “They haven’t gone away you know”.
That threat is still very real, particularly from dissident types.
More like AK74.
Way too many people playing black ops on ps3 or Xbox
“The Uzi is an antique and it was an embarrassment to see them still in use” then mentions the ak47 which was designed in 1947.
Antique or not, accurate or not, the reality is that a submachine gun levels the playing field for the Gardai and the fact that it was removed from service rather than replaced with an MP5 or MP7 or similar is a disgrace.
Armed detectives doing such dangerous duties will at times need to rely on more than just pistols.
Lads, I have a pea shooter and a sling shot if needs be?
Sinabhfuil, it’s unfair and inaccurate to compare Ireland in 1922 and Ireland in 2013.
The late Garda Adrian Donoghue was surprised and ambushed. I fail to see how an Uzi would have saved him. It is disrespectful to him and to his memory to invoke his tragedy when it has no relevance to the particular issue.
The question is this. Have the senior Garda authorities a rational and responsible reason for this decision? Or are the senior Garda authorities irresponsibly risking the lives of the detectives by intentionally under arming them? I doubt that the decision is motivated by costs considerations and I am open to the possibility that it may be a sensible decision to adapt to a risk assessment of the typical situations armed detectives may find themselves in.
It is also possible that the Uzi has become a security blanket for some detectives.
Bit freaked out by your leather clad Facebook profile……
But uzi not really a comfort blanket. Yes it is visual deterrent but at end of the day its stored in a gun case in rear of car as it was when Jerry mccabe was shot. Sig is on hip much faster to reach.
I dont think there is much of an issue at all with uzi being withdrawn. Its the long delay in backup now when big guns are needed.
Your leather are very odd. Very strange
Kind of agree with both of you.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I though Detective Garda Jerry McCabe had an UZI on his lap but was shot three times while sitting in the passenger seat before he could even react?
Hmmm dave you could be right. Normally when in a car its in a case in rear. Saying that of they were stepping out every two minutes me might have had in on lap. Someone else might know that.
Personally I do believe force should be armed. Used to get by with cuffs and the leg of a table. Pepperspray was great addition, your not paid to wrestle after all (unless its in a mud bath with many beautiful ladies) now there are less guards and it’s very noticeable on stations. Back up is a looooooooooooong time away put it yhis way of your in mullingar its 3am you come across armed gang hitting atm machine they point gun at you and you call for help. You could be waiting for the armed car to travel from wicklow.
So while the guys are great highly trained there is not the access to guns when needed
Peter, when a garda on security duty carrys a sig its strapped into a holster, he drives up to a bank to where criminals are waiting with guns in hand. Surly you see hes at a disadvantage straight away? Uzi is no security blanket its a necessary tool for doing a dangerous job, a tool which has been taken away ti save money. As one comment above said €160000 saved last year
Its not stored in a case in the rear of car when on escort duty its in passengers hand. What happened in Adare was tragic but was a decision made by a detective almost 20 years ago. And i would suggest that every detective has learned from that murder, never get too comfortable.
I agree. But I think every Guard should be issued with and carry a TASER stun gun. They are not overly expensive, and despite all the controversy surrounding them in the USA, even I’d rather get hit with a TASER than suffer a baton blow to the head!
The Gardas should not be armed. They are not a professional police force and would need substantial training before they could be trusted with firearms.
Hate to say it Arthur but your right. But when not getting shot at every week one tends to let guard down. I dont think its irish police mentality to approach a car with hand on weapon.
@youdontknowme. That then is a problem of attitude and complacency in itself. Ah well,shure we are in Ireland no one will shoot at me,stab me or steal me penshuin.Now!
Just because nothing bad has never happened to you doesn’t mean it will ever happen either.
@ censored
To bring u up to speed, plain clothes Gardai have been armed for years and years without continued major faults/problems that one would find with an unprofessional police force.
Of course there were lessons learned along the way but show me any police force or even military force that hasn’t. Therefore your point is completely without fact and totally useless.
Is this revelation by The Journal the same revelation made by Retired Det Garda Richie Culhane on the Marian Finucane Show on Saturday, March 9?
Don’t think they should bring back the UZI submachine guns, but instead replace them with the similar and far superior Heckler & Koch MP7.
The Regional Support Units, Emergency Response Unit, Special Detective Unit and National Bureau of Criminal Investigation already carry them, so why not issue them to all Detectives?
you do not want a 5.56 bouncing around a bank, 9mm ofr similar
By the way, I might mention that “The Garda Síochána will succeed not by force of arms or numbers, but on their moral authority as servants of the people” was the ethos chosen by the first people to run the new State’s police force, ex-gunmen themselves and beginning policing in a country still riven by extreme gun violence. Perhaps they had more courage than today’s gardaí.
Would love to see you facing a violent criminal with your “moral authority”.
You wouldn’t even have the nerve to walk through the Gates of Templemore let alone do the job these brave men & women do! Kop on ya fool!
Now you’re just blatantly trolling.
That is an awful thing to say sinabhfuil.
“Now you’re just blatantly trolling”
this from the incompetent buffoon who blamed the IRA for killing o donoghue when it was blatently obvious that it wasn’t the IRA…….
so who did it now jim……..
lmfao
The gang that murdered Det Gda Adrian Donohoe has links to Republican dissidents. Wrong again.
@dave…
The gang that murdered Det Gda Adrian Donohoe has links to Republican dissidents
oh no they don’t………….
Tell us who did it so Harry?
Have any of the experts here ever handled an UZI, let alone fired it? There’s still plenty of revolvers on issue as they’ve no money to replace them.
Yes, I’ve fired an UZI before abroad and it was far less accurate that the H&K MP7, plus it flew up in the air every time you pulled the trigger and the first time almost hit me in the face (and I’m a decent shot).
Youre not a decent shot dave if if were missing with an uzi
Did I say I missed?
That’s shite talk. The mp7 is more accurate alright but the Uzi does not fly around the place. You’re watching too many movies there kid!
The uzi is a very accurate weapon and was perfect for what it was been used for. The gardai were not asking for new weapons they wanted to be left with what they had. The reason it was withdrawn was cost and nothing else. Any detective that carried it will gladly tell you that
No developed western country has a Police force that still carries UZIs. They are past it, like revolvers. Having said that, ours were taken away and not replaced. They should be replaced by, as I’ve said before, a H&K MP7 or similar.
Why don’t they equip them with the steyr AUG police? Granted it’s just over 8 inches longer than a folded uzi but the barrel is 16 inches longer making it WAY more accurate and besides we already have a contract with steyr supplying the army. Plus it would be a huge visual deterrent.
Then again that might be a sensible thing to do! And we can’t be having that now can we?
Police are generally issued with firearms that can be used in ‘Close Quarters Combat’ (CQC), like entering a building in pursuit of a gunman. They are also issued with firearms that are more easily concealable. A Steyr AUG, like the Defence Forces use, is far too large for CQC. It’s an assault rifle, which is very proficient for shooting at a large number of targets large distances away or suppressive fire, but the Gardai aren’t at war.
Fair enough Dave but the “Steyr AUG ‘Police’” is as shortened version designed for CQC as far as I know.
Then I wouldn’t rule it out. However, a sub-machine gun like the H&K MP7 is far superior in my experience. The MP7 is strong (yet not too heavy), reliable, very accurate, easy-to-use and has the capability to pierce body armour.
dave…
what experience do you have exactly?
You seem to think you’re the supreme commander of nato………………
Steyr a.u.g short barrel (used by navy) because of how small and pokey ships are, perfect weapon for f.I.b.u.a ( fighting in built up areas) which is what its designed for by the way. You talking out your ass saying any different based on size. Also testing it would be handy as im sure the naval service would oblige another government department on order of top brass..it is 5.56 tho which is kind of a drawback??
A hell of a lot more experience than you for sure.
There is an Aug in 9mm short barrel as well. Bit of a biatch if you are a left handed Garda though.
Get a face load of hot brass ..Thats the AUGs big drawback its Right handed only,unless you replace the bolt to Left hand.
Is anyone else worried by the lack of distinction between *policing* and war fighting on here?
You forgot a couple of full stops there Harry.
Ok guys please re read my post. I suggested the Steyr AUG POLICE. Its a specially designed version of the styer aug the army use. It is shorter, lighter and fires a 9mm para round NOT a 5.56mm. It is designed for the….. police!
The styer AUG short barrel is exactly that an AUG short barrel, the barrel is the only difference. Im not suggesting that at all.
@John Keane can you imagine getting in and out of a car with that thing. as an experiment take a Hurley and bring it around to have i with ya in the car for a day or two gets in the way rapidly especially if you have to have within easy reach
@Seamus. That’s easy. But if your using your hurley you will have to cut it down to 665mm which is the length of a steyr aug police. Plenty short to in and out of a vehicle.
Paul, the Navy uses the same variant of Steyr AUG as the Army does.
All detectives now carry guns? Whatever happened to “The Garda Síochána will succeed not by force of arms or numbers, but on their moral authority as servants of the people”?
Detectives carry guns, uniform don’t. Personally, if I was faced with an armed criminal I would take firepower over moral authority any day.
Perhaps we should be considering why there are armed criminals – Portugal decriminalised drugs, the bottom fell out of the profitable market, and that was the end of the drug war.
Mind you, Portugal also replaced the police war on drugs with a system of support to get ex-addicts off drugs or onto a systematic regime, and back into work and homes.
So what you are saying is, there are no more armed criminals in Portugal since drugs were legalised? Holy crap
What I’m saying, Jim, is that drug crime is now almost unknown in Portugal, and drug crime and its profits and febrile culture are the main fuel of gun use in Europe.
Do you really believe what you’re saying sinabhfuil? You believe drug crime is almost unknown in Portugal and that legalising the likes of heroin, cocaine, meth and all the other crap out there is the way forward?
Not legalising, decriminalising. Dealers face long sentences in Portugal; users found with illegal drugs can choose between jail and a regime including treatment, social care, health care and help and support in employment.
It’s very controversial – but drug use dropped by half in the first 10 years since decriminalisation
@brian. Couldnt agree more.
Different times. Using same logic the NRA think everyone has the right to bear arms. The constitution was from a different age same way even 40 years ago here was a different age. How many murdered in this country in say 1977 compared to 2010 and I mean Republic. What is the reason for guards not to be armed? They should all be armed. This dump has gone out of hand. I’m not advocating trigger happy cops like in America, discharging of any firearm should be put under immediate investigation but they should be armed to defend themselves and the public and put some fear in to criminals.
Just to say this as an example.
Recently in the Netherlands a teenager was shot at a train station. Killed by a regular uniformed officer with a standard issue sidearm. The reason why he was shot was because another teenager he was in an argument with called the police and told them a young guy was going to go to that train station with a firearm. The officers responding saw him (the other teenager gave a description) and shot him as he jumped out of shock.
I’m not joking when I say that the uniformed police in the Netherlands are more than happy to flash their sidearms and use them without hesitation even if that means killing innocent people. I believe this is also true coming from the reports in the US.
I just think a proper debate about arming the Gardaí is needed rather than a knee-jerking reaction to one armed detective being shot.
Almost all Detectives are armed. In fact, they are less so armed than they were in the past. Plain clothes Detectives carry either Sig Sauer P226 or Walther P99c semi-automatic handguns as side-arms, which replaced the obsolete Smith & Wesson Model 10 revolvers. However, following the withdrawal of the UZI sub-machine gun, most Detectives are left without any form of machine gun. The UZI was originally designed in Israel in 1948, and so has become redundant. I would advocate the introduction of the H&K MP7 sub-machine gun to replace the UZI in the long run.
There are plenty of stats that don’t back up Portugal as some kind of magic solution that you should be aware of for some balance , it’s true they poured plenty of resources into rehab and treatments and decriminalised but the outcomes did not end the drug wars or solve the problems as you indicate.
Drug use was decriminalized in Portugal in the year 2000? Was it a resounding success? Not according to Manuel Coelho, Chairman of the Association for a Drug-Free Portugal and member of the International Task Force on Strategic Drug Policy. He reports the following:
Portugal remains the country with the highest incidence of IDU (Injection Drug Users) related AIDS and is the only country in Europe with an increase; 703 newly diagnosed infections followed from a distance by Estonia with 191 and Latvia with 108 reported cases.
The number of new cases of HIV/AIDS and Hepatitis C in Portugal recorded 8 times the average found in other EU countries.
Homicides related to drug use have increased 40%, and is the only EU country to show an increase from 2000 to 2006.
Portugal recorded a 30% increase in drug overdose deaths, and along with Greece, Austria and Finland has one of the worst records in the EU, one every two days.
The number of deceased individuals that tested positive for drugs (314) in 2007 registered a 45% rise, “…..climbing fiercely after 2006 (216).”
Behind Luxembourg, Portugal is the European country with the highest rate of consistent drug users and IV heroin dependents. (Portuguese Drug Situation Annual Report 2006)
Drug use increased 4.2% between 2001-2007, with life time use going from 7.8% to 12% (66% increase.) Individual drug use grew as follows:
Cannabis Cocaine Heroine Ecstasy
12.4 to 17% ( 37% increase) 1.3 to 2.8% (215% increase) .7 to 1.1% ( 57% increase)
.7 to 1.3% ( 85% increase)
(Report of Portuguese IDT 2008)
While cocaine and amphetamine consumption rates have doubled, drug seizures of cocaine have increased sevenfold between 2001 and 2006, sixth highest in the world. (World Drug Report, June 2009)
Excellent point ‘Dave’. Could you make it about 6 more times, then we might get it.
Maybe decriminalise murder too while ye are at it. We’ve been fighting that fee years with hardly any progress.
But the police are still armed in portugal?
@ Garda jim
you serve this state, this state doesn’t serve you………………….
Oh good god, Harry price has a twitter account now. I like your new name Harry
We don’t everybody to carry guns. Just the people who are supposed to be able to stop the bad guys.
jim ..i note you are a bad garda that answers why the input by you borders on contempt for all people
criminals and drug lords are better armed than our lads,, and with this news i am sure we will have more crime and no cops showing up,, i would not blame them, what they face and to have no bit of power at all,, the cops will be taken more risks, and for less pay,, god bless austerity,,, and crime on the rise, think our government are a little backwards in thinking,, seems our government get it right ten years to late,, how many will have to die before the change comes back,
Sure the cost of arming the force! !!!
Jeebus FG are not spenders, never were never will be.
Every district should have two armed always on duty 24/7. also every guard should have a Tazer
Replace the uzi wit the MP5, simple as.
No hand gun has a greater rate of fire than an uzi.
Exactly. One mp5 in each car. Great weapon. It’s not the British airport police or sas primary weapon for nothing. The eru should have one mp5 and one m4 in the Volvo aswell.
God man Dan,, I fireed the uzi and its rate of fire is incredable to say the least. I don’t know why they had the uzi as its acccuracy is prob about 4 out of 10 thats why they were so popular in the US for drive bys
Noyt a bad idea considering that the British police issue one in the airports is SEMI AUTO only.
They take the possibility of collateral damage and over penetration a bit more seriously.
Ffs
Taser’s should be brought in now, I know lads still using the revolver, but another issue is the way the firearms are hidden. Lads should not be intimidated into hiding the firearm, if you think you need it take it out or put it on view. Too much PC culture in this country. On another point a Garda’s wife attacked again in her home. In my opinion it is time to arm the Gardaí, start looking into it now before more of them are shot, this would increase the training of the Gardaí. Time to bring them into the modern world.
The rubber ducks have been sent to an ocean by a storm.
Garda: ” I want want want want want want want want…..ad nauseum.
The PSNI have Heckler and Kochs, i want one.
The PSNI have Union Jacks, I want one.
If the guards had done their jobs properly there wouldn’t be any gangs in this state.
Brain dead comment of the week. Congratulations.
@john
The guards are responsible for all gangs in this state…….
Hahahahahahahahaha
Or, maybe the Guards have done their job properly, thus having 25 criminal gangs in the state rather than 250!
ooohh nooooo dave………
the gards allowed drug pushers and other crims to operate in working class areas of this country in exchange for information on irish republicans, nationalists, socialists and any other group of people they could get info on….
Now the druggies and the crims have moved in to middle class estates where some gards live……….
This is known as the Karmic Response……
Well whoever produced you truthteller should take a long hard look at themselves
Well they are wiping each other out in any case.
The Gardai have done there job it’s the court system and the prisons that have failed us.
the police in the north are armed. The P.S.N.I. are trained to police and how to use guns in policing. its time to train the gardai to do the same with obedience to right over wrong,and they should be armed to meet force with grater force subject to due process and the law..But we dont need another abbeylarra
Welcome Harry. I was wondering where you were. I wouldn’t like to put a fella with an Uzi in a room with you aul stock. You’d be riddled in seconds I imagine. You’d be left with more holes than a tea bag.
john clarke … you are a tea bag but it empty
So you favour killing are you a guard
john clarke… THOU shall not kill your statement need looking at by the GARDA OMBUDSMAN
What are you trying to say “teabag john clarke” what the hell does that mean
Just ignore him :) dont even red tbumb him.
Nuts. Click on fb profile its pretty self explanatory
Harry, what age are you?…
What nationality are you Harry?
Thou shalt not kill, wouldn’t that be more of an ecumenical matter Harry, not so much one for the ombudsman.
I’m not a guard, unfortunately that boat sailed on me, too late now. But do you know what Harry if I was, I would be very proud of it as it is s very honourable profession that deserves respect and admiration. I’m very proud of my friends and family who are guards.
There you are Harry. On the tea-bag comment by the way, I think you misunderstood the context. I see why though, I imagine you have an entirely different interpretation of tea-bagging!
jim melia .. im black what dose that make me . I see what it means to you in that you are angry and have hatred
the notion of a (largely) unarmed police force is a quaint practice from a bygone era when we were a peaceful little country…..while no one was paying attention it became the 21st century
Maybe so, but I’m fairly sure we were a less peaceful little country in that bygone era. We still have 3,500 to 4,000 Gardai with firearm licenses, but we need to arm the Detectives with submachine guns in addition to their semi-automatic pistols. All Gardai should be issued with and carry TASERS. Maybe we should hold some sort of democratic vote on whether the Gardai should be a fully armed Police force, whether we should increase armed Gardai or leave it how it is…
“Maybe we should hold some sort of democratic vote on whether the Gardai should be a fully armed Police force, whether we should increase armed Gardai or leave it how it is…”
lmfao………
how about holding a referendum to get rid of the gardai in thev same way the terrorist ruc were got rid of…..
Get a life.
@ Supreme Commander Dave
“get a life”
Is that the level of Garda intelligence.
We should have disbanded the discredited gardai at the same time as the ruc and developed a proper police force for this island.
The fact that the Gardai think that the State serves them IS the problem…..
Like I said, get a life.
@ gun toting dave…
There seems to be a serious communication deficit in the guards…..
“get a life”
Were you taught that in the 4pm lecture in templemore?
Ye might get shot by the fella sitting beside ye.
most of the guards on here were saying that o donoghue was killed by the IRA………….when it was obvious to all right thinking people that he wasn’t killed by the RA,.
Comments by garda vinny healy and garda jim melia and others only serve to tell people what kind of people are working for the state………………
The young thug who is the prime suspect for Det Gda Adrian Donohoe’s murder has before been involved in dissident republican activity. His father and uncles were in branches of the IRA. Quit while you’re behind.
Suspect? bollox…
The fact is that the gards won’t make arrests until they can link anyone that they arrest with sinn fein……..they’re struggling to do that at the minute…….but you know state propaganda…………
No, it’s not. The investigating Gardai have 15 members tagged as being part of the gang that murdered Det Gda Adrian Donohoe. The gang have close links to Republican dissident activities. 2 suspects have already been arrested in connection with the getaway car, the PSNI has detained a number of suspects for questioning, and the Gardai have already interrogated 4 suspects whilst under caution. The Garda C3 Crime & Security Section, Special Detective Unit, National Surveillance Unit, National Bureau of Criminal Investigation and Organised Crime Unit are all involved in the case, bringing the number of investigating Detectives to over 150. They are being backed-up by the elite Emergency Response Unit and the heavily armed Regional Support Unit from the Northern Region. An example of the pressure put on these suspects is the recent closing down of former IRA chief Thomas ‘Slab’ Murphy’s illicit diesel laundering operation in County Louth, where over 300 members of the force were involved. Expect him to be facing charges soon. And as for Det Donohoe’s murderers, in the next few weeks and months they will be nicked, charged, tried under the Special Criminal Courts of Justice in Dublin and will be staring at 40 years each in segregation in the maximum security Portlaoise Prison until their hair turns grey. Just you watch.
“And as for Det Donohoe’s murderers, in the next few weeks and months they will be nicked, charged, tried under the Special Criminal Courts of Justice in Dublin and will be staring at 40 years each in segregation in the maximum security Portlaoise Prison until their hair turns grey”
Aren’t they supposed to be convicted first?
Over 300 armed guards investigating four gurriers who have nothing to do with republicanism……..
meanwhile, stabbings, rapes and murders continue around the country
What a force, what a FARCE…..
Funny.
If the uzi is good enough for the defence of Israel,surly its good enough for Garda.
Israel has stopped using the antiquated UZI since 2001.
The Israelis don’t make the UZI anymore for their defence forces,and haven’t issued it to their troops for over a decade now! They have either tons of US supplied M16s or their own homemade gun called the Tavor.
What do the Gaurds need guns for in the first place??After all arent we a gun banned,assault weapon free society “unlike America with its gun culture”. etc,etc.So why do the police need gundsthen??Oh sorry,only the STATE is approved to use guns,and criminals of course… In this state the criminals and the State are pretty much interchangeable these days.
Very glad that they have had the UZI removed form them.It is a submachine gun that is designed for a battlefield[2] no matter what is said about it is an inaccurate gun in either full auto or semi auto. If it is so accurate,why do the elite special forces of the world including Army Ranger Wing and the ERU carry German Heckler & Koch SMGs. Answer they are more accurate and more reliable,and more expensive.As usual our EL Cheapo Govt of the time,bought cheap and Feck it if it doesnt do the job ..shure it will be grand!!
TBH,for the amount of shootouts the Gardai will be involved in like maybe one every 10 years,they could manage very well with a first response of either a pump action shotgun,or a so called patrol carbine..A 9mm semi auto high capacity carbine that uses the SIG or whatever duty pistol pistol magazine.That is more than enough for a first response and containment,before the ERU or ARW arrives on scene.
A full auto SMG is unnecessary and dangerous in an urban enviroment,and God help the AGS if there was a case of negligent discharge or over penetration of a round a few blocks away with a 9mm if somone decides to empty the mag on Rock ‘N Roll setting by mistake..you fire it out of the gun you are responsible where it goes.
I know little about firearms their effectiveness or otherwise. However I am somewhat disturbed that cost savings by the State could in any way reduce the ability of the Gardai to deal properly and swiftly with armed criminals. A suitably trained and armed police force is essential in present circumstances.
I love the OTT fear driven reactions, playing into the hands of the macho elements of the force. Arming the keystone cops of the garda is likely to lead to many more gun deaths, rather than fewer.
First of all, you might want to consider:
1. depoliticising senior garda management appointments so we get an independent police force, not to mention a competent management system instead of the brown nosers that are there today
2. equipping the guards with a communications system (yes children, they don’t have one that works)
3. providing decent cars and other equipment (and enough of it)
4. helicopters – do they still just have one?
5. reduce the amount of unnecessary paperwork keeping guards sitting around in stations
Some of the smallest redneck sheriff’s departments in the US are better equipped (and probably trained) than the guards. In the current setup, I shudder to imagine what things would be like if they were armed. Would they even have bullets?
Truthytruthteller, what’s bugging you? Is it the fact that your ‘freedom-fighters’ have reverted to their first instinct and gone plain criminal? Feeding off the habits of junkies and down-and-outs! Is it the fact that the RUC won the ‘war?’ Mainly through the paid services of republican informers and traitors, bless ‘em! And then our great leaders ran for the cover of Dail Eireann? Hunger-strike?? Real freedom-fighters wouldn’t miss breakfast for your so-called republican ideals!!
So you don’t disagree then that the SIG Sauer P226 is a better choice as a Police weapon than a Beretta 92?
My cousin was a police officer in New York and he shot a criminal dead during a shootout ; He is a really nice guy and it hit him hard ; it’s not easy to shoot another human dead unless you’re a criminal !
It’s a very messy subject not helped by the fact that a drug lord can run a drugs empire from his prison cell and at the same time the drug lord seems to know that it’s time to ditch the phones before he’s caught , while at the same time several bulgarian gang have mobile phone blockers;
Ireland is a mess!
Good comment. However, most prisons in Ireland do have mobile phone jamming equipment operated by the Irish Prison Service. Brian Rattigan is now doing an additional 17 years (on top of life in prison, ie 20 years) for running a drug cartel from his prison cell. As far as I’m aware it was facilitated by Detectives and the IPS so they could make sure he’d stay in prison until he was a pensioner. It was basically a (legal) set-up.
A list as long as your arm. Scroll back through the coments and its there. Its my bread and butter dave.
Dave,
A fact is about the phone jamming system in Irish prisions …Its a FRAUD!!
The jammers were bought by the then FF Govt off a French company that promised much ,charged alot,went bankrupt and couldnt service what they installed.
These Jammers were actually dangerous too.As they threw out an area jam,but were so powerful that it was like walking around with two microwave ovens on your body 24/7. So strong in fact that they affected radio equipment in Portlaoise hospital,just across the road from the jail…
Reason I know this,I was involved in bidding at the time to supply the systems.This was another 6 million euros down the toilet on the tax payers expense.
Don’t get me started on Irish prisons!
ah yes Mr. Cowardly Lion ! ; it was a great result for law and order and if others were caught then brilliant ; Do you know what really got me about the case though was that isn’t it amazing how he could still be in charge even though he was locked up ; as in his gang were still willing to follow his command ; there must be some sort of honour among thieves !
I was talking to a prison officer one day and he told me that there was a time when four guys were brought in for their sentences ;Time passed and they were released – He said within six months all four had been murdered ! Crime doesn’t pay !
why are comments about state forces deleted?
The journal seems to be another state rag…..
Theyre deleted if theyre dumb and you my simple little friend are dumb as a box of frogs
aahh vinny……..
did those nasty people take your uzi off you……..lmfao……
so many whinging gards here it’s unbelievable…..
should be the garda journal……..
Its an article about Gardai and garda equipment! Your interest in all police related reports is a bit freaky.
Harry Price posted his email address yesterday, if you contact him and ask nicely he might have a uniform ye could play with
“Your interest in all police related reports is a bit freaky. ”
So what are police related reports doing in the media? Or did I come across the garda section of the media by accident?
Shouldn’t you be on the beat harassing law abiding citizens?
Just shut up.
@Dave your incorrect re Rattigan getting 17 years in addition to life sentence , the sentence runs concurrently an dwas back dated so in fact he may be up for release in 2020 and is not actually going to spend that much additional time in prison at all as a result.
I’m no legal expert, but it does mean he will serve more time and could easier end up back in prison after his release, right?
no , the 17 years sentence runs concurrently , and was dated back to begin when the offence happened in 2008 , so , believe it or not it looks like this , 17 years from 2008 runs til 2025 but 25% ‘remission’ , hes being a good boy in jail ya see , so in reality the sentence will end around 2021 , which is when he will be due for release….so the pretty harsh sounding 17 years sentence wont make much difference at all…why these sentences are allowed to run concurrent is beyond me…
Yes, it kicked back and almost knocked my teeth out. I fired one on a range in the states quite a number of times, so an instructor decided to give me one with a grip at the end instead (better, but not that accurate at long range). They are completely past it for a modern Police force. You don’t believe me?
what moran decided that the Uzi is not designed for enclosed spaces. the Israelis who designed the thing especially for enclosed space if anything they should be given assault rifles try this bad boy M4 carbine compact enough to fit in any car and more accurate then the uzi
I bet the idiots who took that decision never go out on the streets to face real criminals with real guns. Remember, even if the garda is armed with like for like weapons, theoretically he only has a 50/50 chance of out shooting the criminal. The gardai are the ones that should be carrying the superior arms.
This is what happens when people go waving guns in South Galway ; Karma !
One of the biggest advantages of the Uzi was the fear factor , the sight alone is intimidating . Now they just have a pistol . With criminals having high powered machine guns it’s outrageous to take these guns off the guards just to save a few quid . Lives are been put at risk and unfortunatly it won’t be long until another hero guard wil be gunned down protecting us . Alan shatter should be ashamed of himself !!
I’m not in the habit of defending Alan Shatter, but this decision was taken before he got into government and the decision lies with the senior Gardai and them alone.
Gotta laugh at this “fear factor” of a gun..OOOOHHH it looks Scarrry…I’d better not do anything naughty!!
Better ban them too as they are more dangerous because they look like they are dangerous…Cop on will ye???
It should be By Christ that 6’6in minimum extremly fit looking bloke who is coverd in tattos with a crew cut. In a very sharp crisp uniform freshly ironed this morning,with the size 16 steel toed combat boots and has his eye on me since I apperared on the street and has got the authorithy to crack my head first and ask questions later is Really scary!!!!
Anyone who has seen the French or German police or EX military now working as police officers will know what I mean.They resonate a DO NOT FUK WITH ME,or you WILL regret it.. Sir!! aura.Yet when finished dealing with any member of the public ,they will salute said member of the public as a courtsey…
You dont need a SMG if you have that kind of personal intimidation or authorithy factor for day to day police work.
Hate to say it but a sawn off 5ft Garda who needs some serious remedial PT and a “How to iron your shirt press your uniform and polish your boots 101″ Does not inspire confidence or authorithy. AGS needs a serious uniform makeover by a professional who knows what it is like to be a police officer and a serious morale rebuild.
The Guards should carry the P226 chambered in .357 Sig with Speer Gold Dot 125g JHP and have a P516 on the seat beside them as Ireland is not a very safe place anymore. The Guards do a good job why doesn’t the government help them do their job?
These so called peace keepers should not have guns to start with, there running around on a power tripe as it is and could you imagine what they would do if they were given fire power. I hate to think. I know one thing, if all garda were given guns I could see the public arming themselves for protection and rightly so. They forget what they are, there peace keepers, not soliders. There are enough head cases in this country who have guns. Any person who carry guns deserve to die by one. Guns murder people and any person who carrys one has intend.
Uzi machine pistols are very accurate on single shot mode. The guards like them because they have a large magazine,much bigger than semi automatic pistols. They also have the option of full auto, handy if you want to lay down suppressive fire. A well trained officer can actually be quite accurate on full auto, it all down to practice.
Sig was the cheapest replacement for the s&w that’s why it was introduced….. Once again money governs over health and safety
Nonsense. The Sig Sauer P226 is second to none as a semi-automatic pistol for Police forces. Better than a Glock (the only handgun that runs it close) in my opinion. Some of the decisions were cost-saving – of course – but the decision on which sidearm to issue thankfully wasn’t one of them. That decision was taken during the boom, when we actually had money to spare. The Walther P99 is also a good replacement for the Smith & Wesson Model 10 revolvers.
The US Navy SEALs don’t seem to have any problems with the P226.
the beretta 92f superior handgun shot thousands of rounds extremely accurate excellent rate of fire and never any issues no jams and it us the sidearm of the us army great gun
Beretta’s are a great weapon for the armed forces, but little do Police forces use them. The are quite bulky, and in most models you carry them with the hammer forward so to discharge you have to pull the hammer back to cock it and then release the safety, before finally aiming and pulling the trigger. The SIG SAUER or Glock are the most serviceable for Police.
What experience have you dave exactly?
Quite a lot thank you. And yourself?
@ Paul
Gun toting dave is the supreme commander of land forces, NATO
Haha, right on, absolute fool he is. Not a clue what hes talking about except for gaming on his ps3. I am an armourer like, sure what would I know..
dave do you know anything about firearms the beretta is technically a double action semi automatic pistol once you pull the slide back and chamber the round you can safely lower the hammer slowly down then when required you squeeze the trigger this will then raise the hammer which then fall on to the firing pin thus discharging the weapon and no it is not a bulky firearm. it is a comfortable firearm to shoot as the recoil is quite easy
Sig Sauer is superior to the Beretta as a Police weapon. That’s why Police forces use SIGs rather than Berettas. I’m not disputing that the 9, M1923 or the M9 are great firearms, but they are more useful for military purposes. And, yes I have a lot of experience with firearms.
Watching old chuck norris movies + playing call of duty doesnt count dave.
To be honest Dave you said that the first time you fired an uzi it recoiled that much it nearly hit you in the face!
You also said that “everytime you pull the trigger it flys up in the air!
You claim its not accurate!
I dont know what experience you have but i know from these 3 commennts you have little or none with the uzi. Sorry.
10 red thumbs from people that have not got a clue regarding firearms excellent level of ignorance on this website please elaborate why the red thumbs? paul i have found your knowledge of firearms quite good you are like me and have obviously have shot them in real life not on a playstation
I’ve fired UZIs in the states on a number of occasions on private ranges, and I’ve handled them here too but haven’t fired one on Irish soil. The first time I fired one it kicked back and almost broke my teeth! So the instructor decided to give me an UZI with a rubber grip near the end of the barrel. They are inaccurate over long range, and I have quite a good shot if I say so myself. Granted, they’re more accurate in semi-automatic than fully automatic, but they were developed in the 1940′s to be used by the regular soldier or police officer to be light to carry and easy to conceal. They are completely outdated for use by modern police forces.You don’t believe me?
So you don’t disagree then that the SIG Sauer P226 is a better choice as a Police weapon than a Beretta 92 ?
dave i only debate with people that know what they are talking about not people that think they know what they are talking about i will not entertain trolls
Right so, off with you. (Regarding the red thumbs, personal insults don’t help your cause).
Spot on lee (wiat for ten red thumbs from lee and his buddies)
The P99 is fine if you have small hands like a woman’s.
Reason US Navy SEALS dont use the Bretta 92F is the slide had a nasty habit of coming loose in recoil and embedding it in a couple of Navy SEALs faces in rapid fire drills in the 1990s.
SIG is a good piece albeit expensive.
Glock is a fine gun,once people are instructed in its safe use,as its saftey is on the trigger itself,and some shooters of the “old school” still draw and keep their fingers on the trigger thussly having a 90% increase of an accidental discharge.
green thumbs all the way paul
True. “You ain’t a NAVY SEAL ’til you’ve tasted Italian steel…”
Dave, it is my full time job to know weapons and go to the range ok. A sig p226 is a cross between an ordinary handgun and a machine pistol…it is semi automatic. Now ive listed my experience as it is my job, you have never said anything about what you do, also being able to google weapons and type about them does not make you an expert. I am an expert, you should be cognisant of that when speaking to me. Coming on talking about how you fired uzis overseas?? Sure thing dave your a real hero. Walter mitty more like, then begging ur buddies to red thumb others…you have no qualifications to speak about weapons dave, if you, list them please, if you dont, stfu.
What is your weapons qualifications dave?
I thought Uzi was a drink I had in Greece?
Is it just me, or is there a smell of ‘coup’ in the air? Minister Shatter, Minister for Justice AND Defence. Disarm the Gardaí, hmmmmm…..
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