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THE HEAD OF the commission tasked with reviewing the future of policing in Ireland has said splitting security and policing systems of the gardaí might not be the answer to tackling threats of terrorism.
Speaking to reporters ahead of her address at the MacGill Summer School in Glenties, Donegal, Kathleen O’Toole, Chair of the Commission on the Future of Policing denied that it was inevitable that the root-and-branch review of the gardaí will recommend that Ireland’s security and policing systems should be separated.
Ireland is one of the only countries in Western Europe with one agency responsible for both security and policing.
O’Toole, who is also a former head of the Garda Inspectorate, said it is one of the issues the review will look at.
“Just because something works somewhere else in the world doesn’t necessarily mean it works in the Irish context. We have to respect the culture here, the history here, but we have 12 people, including myself, on this commission who are determined to look at this objectively,” she said.
The pitfalls
O’Toole said she had seen the”pitfalls” of such a system in the United States, where the two systems have been separated for many years.
“We have separated it for many years and we have had some real breakdowns in communications in the policing services and the civil policing. I know from practical experience, there is no bright line between terrorism and ordinary crime. They often intersect,” said O’Toole.
Using the example of the establishment of the Department of Homeland Security in the US after 9/11, she said multiple agencies had their own databases of intelligence, and no one shared information.
“They had their own database, the FBI had their own database, other intelligence agencies had their own database… they weren’t talking to each other. I can remember saying to the intelligence tsar in Washington DC, very respectfully, ‘look it is not going to be you that sees the next threat on the horizon’. If we’re lucky it is going to be a local cop, but most likely it is going to be someone living in the community,” she explained.
It is easy to suggest quick fix solutions, but we have to be really careful that whatever new system arises it is the best fit for this island.
In the end, you need a really collaborative approach to all this, that at the end of the day ensures that nothing slips through the cracks.
Templemore finances
Yesterday, the Public Accounts Committee released its damning report on financial irregularities at the garda college in Templemore.
Asked about the PAC report Kathleen O’Toole said:
I think it’s very important that we follow investigations and tribunals of the past and the present but we are really focusing on the future.
I have read the headlines and of course I am concerned like everyone else.
Following yesterday’s report publication, the Garda Commissioner Noírín O’Sullivan faced some criticism for being on holidays for five weeks.
O’Toole said she wouldn’t be drawn on matter, but said:
“I would defer to garda management and the Garda Commissioner to answer that question.
“Everyone wants to draw me into the discussion about the Commissioner, but it’s clear that our work is not to conduct a performance evaluation.”
I am focusing on what the next Garda leadership team and management team needs to look like and what qualifications do they need to have, what training and professional development do they need to have, how do you organise a team and prepare a team to assume positions of that significance so that things like that don’t happen again.
While she said she was not speaking about O’Sullivan, O’Toole said issues with management teams in police forces “is not unique to Ireland”.
“Many people come up through the ranks, they are great cops, they are great detectives, but there is nothing that ever prepares them to assume a management role with responsibilities, well in this case, 16,000 personnel and an operating budget of well over €1 billion.”
She added that anyone that assumes the role in the future will have to be prepared to assume that enormous responsibility. O’Toole said no one person can do the job, but added that a management team will be required that has the “combined skills and experience to pull it off”.
Run police force like a business
“At one side you have to run a police operation, on the other you have to run a business,” she said.
If or when a vacancy for the Garda Commissioner job does arise, O’Toole said she expects the calibre of applicants to increase.
She sat on the body that appointed O’Sullivan to her position, and said she was somewhat taken aback at the lack of international applicants.
However, she now believes it is a “great opportunity” and “a very desirable position” for outsiders.
O’Toole said she didn’t believe the pay packet was an issue.
“I have taken pay cuts on a number of occasions myself because I thought the work was so fascinating and the I wanted to make a difference… certainly I have heard some say that it [Garda Commissioner's salary] doesn’t compare to other places, but the people who do this job, that is not usually what motivates them.”
O’Toole said she plans to visit all Garda districts around the country to talk to members of the gardaí on the ground about the changes they want to see.
The commission is due to deliver its report in September 2018, however, O’Toole did not rule out publishing interim recommendations.
‘Sense of urgency’
There is a sense of urgency in the gardaí, said O’Toole, adding that change in culture can happen quickly in organisations that are in crisis.
The first meeting with between the new commission members and the Garda Commissioner took place last Friday.
O’Toole said Friday’s meeting was the first of many meetings the commission will have with garda management. She said “very strong lines of communication” will be maintained with the gardaí, the Justice Department and members of government.
Reforms within the Garda Síochana should take place in parallel to the root and branch review taking place, she explained.
“We don’t want to hold anything up in the process. There are hundreds of recommendations that are outstanding, that could be implemented in the coming weeks and months, that have been identified in these ongoing inquiries and we will work on a parallel track.”
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If they didn’t hide the outcomes to save their own mistakes than it should not have been a problem. Dishonesty from the HSE is the problem.
@Hans Vos: no the problem, as with cervical screening is that NO test is 100% accurate and you will always have false negatives. It’s nobody’s ‘fault’.
@Ciaran Bolger: I agree that no test is 100% accurate. But hiding the results so woman didn’t know their test was suspicious and ultimately ended up in full blown cancers was.
@Ciaran Bolger: false negatives might be nobody’s fault but covering up certainly was somebody’s fault.
@Hans Vos: In a blame culture like ours, informing a patient of a false negative will likely result in a legal action and collapse of the service- thats what they were afraid of , and that is what is going to happen.
The breast screening program was hit with 15 solicitors letters- best course of action would be to stop “look back” audits -to protect the programs.
@paul kelly: So you saying that women who are in the past willingly misleaded can’t have their rights executed?
@Hans Vos:
Of course you can , it just will cost millions.
@paul kelly: Don’t you think that being honest from the beginning could have avoided all the hassle. That’s the problem with the HSE . There are people, and don’t get me wrong not everybody, who think that they are more important than the truth. When it’s going wrong than they blame : 1 Somebody else.
2 Politics
.3 The system.
4 The cost.
And I can get on and on but they never blame them self.
@Hans Vos: No, being honest with a look back audit showing the screen to be a false negative will lead to a substantial payout.
Solicitors are looking at a definite new income stream.
@paul kelly: contrary to you I like to be honest.
@Hans Vos: Oh I believe honesty is the ideal , but it will cost hundreds of millions, the collapse of screning and the deaths of far more women.
@paul kelly:
Make that 16 from Monday next. There will be no collapse of the service that’s scaremongering. I never knew there was a look back service nobody ever mentioned it OR A REVIEW
I really hope that this is not:
A) Another case of our healthcare system failing women
B) People jumping on the bandwagon hoping to make a few euro!
@Jenny Kelleher: I have to disagree with your statement about looking for a few quid… in most cases including the cervical cancer cases the hse deny everything and in fact try to cover up what has happened…. nobody goes to jail, nobody is held responsible… the only retribution these people receive is a pay out… and let me tell you that it’s not an easy decision to make about bringing a case because it is a long and very difficult process.. and is even more so difficult when all you can think is,what if people think I’m doing this just for money !!
@Tommy Byrne: There was no cover up. There were false negative results discovered retrospectively (an inevitable feature of any screening programme), some women were told of this others weren’t due to failure of HSE procedures. There is no suggestion that the women’s outcomes were adversely affected as the prior false negatives were only discovered on review after a diagnosis of cancer had been made. The lawsuits pertain to the false negatives themselves. If a situation emerges where there are payouts for every false negative result then the screening programmes will be driven to bankruptcy as false negatives are an inherent statistical feature of large scale screening programmes.
@Damon16: in the cervical cancer cases it most definitely was a cover up … and who is to say there isn’t something similar happening here ? We don’t know the facts of any of the future cases that may come of this. All we are hearing is one side of the story so far… so to judge people as only in it for a few quid is very wrong
@Tommy Byrne:
Indeed ..very wrong
The medical profession and the Gov need to do a better job explaining to the public the difference between a screening test and a diagnostic test. A screening test such as breast check will invariably have some false negatives results. The Gov need to introduce legislation capping or limiting claims in the context of screening programmes. If they don’t the HSE is the HSE are going to stop running screening tests and or not bring in new screening tests due to legal exposure. This will cost many lives.
Alternatively, push for a national Irish healthcare system that looks after patients to internationally recognised, excellent standards. Adopt a class action suit with one aim; justice and improved medical standards. Don’t force individuals to take individual cases and slog through alone. Too many people end up going abroad – men who need hip replacements badly, and have been waiting in pain on long lists, for example. Don’t inflict symphysiotomy on women while the rest of the world is not crippling their own citizens with decades-old clumsy practices. Don’t sweep the outcomes under the carpet until a few suffering families have to spend all their resources to highlight real and ongoing issues and appeal to higher courts separately until they die and the files are closed.
There are lots of pros and cons to screening. Some medics (and not crackpots) would argue against most kinds of screening and a lot of unnecessary screening takes places privately (ie a money spinner). Total transparency and full disclosures are needed in public and private health care.
Do they not have ambulances to chase?
It’s no good in trying to shift the blame for problem onto women who had smear checks carried out on systemic failure on the HSE full stop.
The circus continues with the legal profession rubbing their hands with glee ,the government have to take responsibility ,this has been kept back from the media to prevent the effects it may have on the referendum .again no accountability ,put your trust in LEO and simon everything will just be fine
My god,these people think the public are fools.
@@mdmak33: Clearly some are.
Where were the tests carried out?
Were they the cheapest option?
@The Irish Bull: tested in Ireland and results read in Ireland. Totally different process to cervical screening.
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