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Updated at 17.00
PROBABLY THE MOST noteworthy aspect of this year’s Oscars ceremony was actress Patricia Arquette’s impassioned acceptance speech on the subject of unequal pay for men and women.
Unfortunately this disparity in pay is not just a phenomenon that affects the Hollywood glitterati, it’s alive and well across Europe, and with the UN claiming that the gap won’t be closed for at least 70 years, it’s clear the situation could be a lot better.
With International Women’s Day happening this weekend, the boffins at Eurostat (the statistical branch of the EU, roughly equivalent to our Central Statistics Office) have celebrated the fact by comparing the pay gap across Europe.
The results don’t look particularly great for Ireland with pay inequality here actually increasing over the five years between 2008 and 2013.
As things stand men here earn 14.4% (the figure was 12.6% in 2008) more than women. It seems the recession has slightly exacerbated the problem rather than fixing it.
All told women comprise 46% of the Irish labour force (aged 20 to 64), however only 33% of Irish workers at managerial level are female (this is also the European average). 80% of clerical workers are women, as are 66% of those who work in retail.
In Ireland 70.9% of men are employed compared with 60.3% of women. However the number of women in part-time employment (34.2%) dwarfs the same figure for men (12.7%).
It’s still a pretty unequal world out there.
“Progress in terms of reducing the gap has been slow,” admits Kara McGann, a senior labour market executive with employer’s group IBEC.
Equality can’t be achieved through legislation alone however.
Ultimately, it’s in every employer’s interest to monitor and ensure their payroll is free from gender bias. When this is tackled at a business level it will eventually start to have an impact nationally.
If you think our pay gap figures are bad however, be thankful you don’t live in the Czech Republic (22.1%), Austria (23%), or, worst of all, Estonia, where men are paid a whopping 29.9% more than women.
Some European states have quite a good record in reducing the gap – Lithuania in particular reduced its percentage from 21.6% to 13.3% over the five years – while Slovenia is the best country in Europe to work in as far as equality is concerned – men are paid just 3.2% more there than women.
There is a tiny bit of good news – the overall gender pay gap figure for the Eurozone is 16.4%, down slightly from 17.3% in 2008.
Originally published at 16.20
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Either introduce mandatory paternity leave, or deal with it.
How are the two connected? It is not like women wouldn’t be in favour of paternity leave.
The reason women are proportionally paid less is because they can’t pursue their career like a man can. They have to take time off to have children and raise them. Employers run a business. Why would they invest the same amount of money in an employee who they will have to pay maternity leave to? An employer will also have to go to the trouble of hiring and paying a replacement. The answer to this issue is to introduce mandatory paternity leave, so the issue of maternity leave in pay disparity becomes void
There are other reasons as well Eric. But otherwise, I agree with you. You’re never going to get equal pay in a society which unnecessarily and disproportionately dumps child rearing on one gender. There’s no reason why it should be that. Introducing paternity leave in par with maternity leave would go a long way to solving the problem.
Lisa, it’s generally the case that women are only concerned about themselves.
You don’t see these kind of statistics coming out when there isn’t enough men taking up teaching, hairdressing, nursing, arts or enough women taking up construction, labouring or generally undesirable traditionally male jobs.
Men just cant win here, it’s sociably acceptable for a woman to not have a career aspiration or even a job, whereas men become a social reject(mainly in the eyes of women) if they don’t.
How is it generally the case that women are only concerned about themselves?
This has got nothing to do with the percentage of men who are hairdressers or women working in construction. This is about a disparity between the wages of women and men. Are you saying that construction and labouring are generally undesirable, and hairdressing and nursing are more desirable or something?
It’s not ‘socially acceptable’ for women not to have career aspirations or to not work, if that was the case then you’re saying that women just sit on the dole and everyone thinks that’s great! Maybe you are trying to say that when women have children it is more common for them to be the ones to give up work?
The reality is that when it comes to raising children, women are more likely to be the ones to sacrifice their career to raise a child, or at the very least take time off to give birth. This is not because women have no desire to work!
If a man was to give up work to raise the children, I can’t imagine any woman would consider them to be a social reject for doing so.
It’s time to acknowledge the myth that length of service meaning you’re better and deserve more money. If it was performance related then pay would be fairer. The fact that you believe that maternity causes the problem of unfair pay makes you part of the discrimination.
Eimsley – You are a clown who clearly doesn’t know anything about anything.
Great response Eric. Mature.
@ Christine. You are everything that is wrong with the world.
In the 50s a man’s wage was was enough to support a wife and raise a family. Nowadays, both parents work, children are raised by strangers, most people’s parents have to help to get them on the non existent property ladder and family values have become non existent.
All in the pursuit of supposed equality.
Personally I think we need to show more respect for the role of mothers/ housewives before the role of men/ fathers is completely eroded.
There’s some poor woman out there living on sawdust and good intentions to counteract the pittance I’m paid so.
That’s why it’s a man’s world.
Maybe in your world mate. In my house, Jacinta is in charge!
This video explains how they come up with bogus statistics like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58arQIr882w
They are not comparing like with like. They ignore the fact that men are more likely to work longer hours, less like to work part-time, less likely to work 4 day weeks etc.
It also ignores the fact that childless unmarried women earn more than men on average.
Women work harder in order to get home to those kids just because I work 8-5 and leave at 5 on the dot doesn’t mean I haven’t worked my ass off min I got in door & skipped lunch.
“Women work harder in order to get home to those kids just because I work 8-5″
No they don’t. They get sloppy at work because they spend their days feeling guilty about leaving the kids in some creche somewhere. Last in, first to leave and rely heavily on their colleagues to pick up the slack. That’s how it is in practice in a lot of cases in my experience. There are exceptions of course, but you don’t know what all women do either.
If what you’re saying was true employers would only be hiring women because women are more efficient and get paid less. It simply isn’t the case.
I second that. Working extra long hours is a choice and not usually linked to the best performance. Some of the best delegators I know ‘work’ really long hours and play the martyr.
spot on
These studies and articles are pointless and little better than click bait.
It only compares men and women’s average salaries, not men and women doing the same job. For instance Monday’s million dollar man P Harrington has no female equivalent to measure against but would be included.
The true gender wage gap for comparable jobs is less than 5% which is by no means perfect but better than the click bait suggests.
I work in an office where there are 25 people. 7 women, 5 of which don’t work a full week, none of the men have part time hours. Not all the women have children.
Unless a study includes hours worked it is pointless.
Choice is important and many women choose to work less hours. Many men would too but aren’t normally given this choice
If the wage gap was real market forces would fix it.
If women truly were cheaper at performing the same jobs business would be only hiring women and the wages of men would drop to compensate.
Cultural Marxists don’t seem to understand market forces.
You’re dead right, click bait it is. The majority of companies today have a certain position available with a certain amount of wage/salary attached to it. Regardless of gender. It’s up to you, male or female, whether you want to go for a higher paid position. It’s not that men are paid more than women, in general there is more men in higher paid positions than women. Simple as. I have a fantastic husband who does not look at parenting his daughter as ‘babysitting’ or ‘minding his child’, he’s just parenting so I don’t think the argument of men being ABLE to go for higher paid jobs flies either, if either my husband or I wanted to go for something higher paid we would (and have done so) discuss it and work out how best we can come to a conclusion that we can both parent to the best of our ability. If a woman feels that she cannot go for a higher paid job because she needs to be a parent more than get a higher paid job then that’s her choice, she has to be happy with that, if not do something about it. In my opinion, the conversation shouldn’t be men get paid more than women, it should be take responsibility for your work, your relationship and everything else, male or female. Don’t let society be an influence or an excuse.
Women are also less like to see their work as valuable and less likely to ask for a raise than men. This might only account for a small discrepancy but you can’t blame men for being more ballsey with their bosses.
The wage gap statistic, doesn’t compare two similarly situated co-workers of different sexes, working in the same industry, performing the same work, for the same number of hours a day. It merely reflects the median earnings of all men and women classified as full-time workers. Men gravitate to more dangerous jobs , so therefore rightly earn more money , stop yer whining , be grateful that you have a job, so that you can pay for the ‘childcare’ , welcome to the race.
Ah yes. Nothing more dangerous than a job as a company CEO.
Miners, farmers, fishermen, construction workers, soldiers, police, coastguard and fire crews don’t factor so?
Brendan Eich is testament to the fact you just stated Joanna , it’s a difficult task been a straight white male in this topsy turvy land
Now many of the unfortunate miners killed in Ukraine this week were women .
I’m a man and I get paid 9 euro an hour. As a result I don’t do my job particularly well. F#em
I think Men should be paid more …
It not because we are better / work harder / do longer hours / more creative. everything is equal in that sense between the genders.
Its because we end up paying for everything !. meals , taxis , drinks , nights out .
You should run for Taoiseach and then everyone else pays !
@enda. Your going out with the wrong females. Most wemon pay their way now.
Time to look at the way we deal with pregnancy and families. Increase the amount of paternity leave increase the number of voluntary days of maternity leave. Simplistic but may go a way to helping close the gap ?
Woman spend the working day gossiping and bitching. Seen it first hand.
There’s a stonker of a generalisation… sure what are you doing right now John? Only bitching about women! :D
John you are no the money. Fair is Fair.
John you need to get out more you clown
Every single year the day before international women’s day someone publishes this exact same article .
How many more times is it going to be debunked before someone stops doing it .!!!!
That survey doesn’t apply to me
If you add in me Mickey money, I actually earn more than me fella…
… as I constantly remind him!
Good girl Jacinta !
Were you from a broken home , were your parents drug addicts , what made you charge for mickey money ?
Hermes
“What made you charge for mickey money”
Do you know what mickey money is?
It’s all just a game Glen …like rugby at 2 !
Hermes, your name sounds like a venereal disease!
Parents drug addicts? Me ma is a solicitor, she solicits for business!
Glen, Mickey money is drink money!
Jacinta
I bet it buys you trays of Dutch gold and endless Mayfair 100′s
Enjoy
You deserve it!
Cheers Glen!
… and all in the black market!
So Jacinta
You live off the tax payer and when you part with your “free money” it’s to criminals, untaxed!
You are a credit to this country I am in absolute fooking awe of you, my new hero.
Glen. Glad you had Hermes name right this time. Are you annoyed with Hermes ? or the world in general. You seem to be out of sorts.
Con
I think you need a few of Jacinta’s cans
Might cheer you up.
Jacinta. I wondered if you ever held down a real job,? and mickey money as you call it, should it not be for the children your claiming for. Like buying clothes and shoes etc.
Glen. Thanks for the advice but i’ll decline, as drinking is a mugs game. And i stopped being a mug many years ago. Maybe you should try it.
Why is it a problem? Its laughable that the author seems to suggest the recession should have balanced the numbers.
There are numerous reasons why males are better employees. I’m gonna duck for cover after unleashing this one.
1. We are more ambitious in general. I know I jumped the queue on female colleagues in the past because I’ll actually ask for a raise or promotion.
2. We are far more committed. In my experience female employees moan more about being asked to do extra work or stay in late. In the place I work now, there is, i’d say, 60/40 ratio of men to women. Yet in the majority of times in the evening it is only blokes that are in the office til 9 or 10pm.
3. The physical aspect most importantly is that I can’t get pregnant. I don’t need however many months of time off to recover. Even if there was paternal leave, I wouldn’t take it unless absolutely necessary because I can’t be out of work in my job because it doesn’t look good. Employers aren’t meant to judge on the pregnancy thing though but they do. Until the thought police have a way of detecting those thoughts, employers will always think that way.
4. The only females that I know that have gotten to high level positions are ones that adopt masculine traits and qualities. I’ve respected and really enjoyed working with these women. They’ve admitted it themselves to me and even show some level of disgust towards women who won’t pull out all the stops for a job. I remember one of my bosses in the past had to attend a HR meeting about her treatment of another woman who was having her time of the month and gave no sympathy.
I fully expect a tirade of abuse after giving my opinion on this and that should show you why I choose to post anonymously.
In the end you only get EQUAL pay for having the ability to do an EQUAL amount of work. If you can’t pull your weight and compete with your colleagues well then you don’t deserve to advance. I work in the private sector though where you will get sacked for being incapable to perform to the required standard.
Just on your first point, ‘Gordon’, in my experience you’re right that men are the first to ask for raises and promotions. But also in my experience, it doesn’t translate to them being better employees. Of all the managers I’ve worked with, the women who get there have done it the hard way, doing their job well and working long hours. They asked for promotions when they felt they’d earned it. Of the men, I’ve seen too many to count that think they can swan in and out at their leisure expecting everyone under them to do their work (“delegation”) and when they do work, not doing it well. How do people like that succeed at a company? They have one talent – they talk themselves up really well. They’re great at taking the credit for work they didn’t do and equally good at deflecting blame for their c0ck-ups onto lower employees. They don’t get found out because they’re good at lying to save themselves. They go for raises and promotions because they have a high opinion of themselves that their work ethic doesn’t reflect.
So simply ‘being more ambitious’ doesn’t translate to being a better worker.
So so so true. I’ve seen this in so many workplaces. Both UK and Ireland.
Well since we are all only able to talk about our own personal experiences, I can’t really argue with anything you’ve said, ‘Hammy’. My industry is very much so gender balanced so I don’t really think that I have misrepresented anything.
However simply in relation to the article, you agree that men come across as more ambitious in general. Well the article is about men being better paid rather than a better worker. So maybe that is what makes the difference. I mean, I wouldn’t promote someone to lead a team who had no confidence.
L’oriel
Because were worth it.
:-)
So quit or fight harder .
When talking of gender pay gap, there’s so many factors that need to be brought into the equation.
Here are two videos by feminist Christina Hoff Sommers that perfectly illustrate the issues often overlooked when talking about the issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrbS537nnso
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58arQIr882w
They’re two videos I’d encourage everyone to watch.
It isn’t a matter of “pay women less for doing the same work as men.” That’s obviously discrimination, and, let’s be honest, do you think that would fly in a modern society?
What people have pointed out was, if employers could get away with that, and pay women less for an equal amount of work, would they not be more inclined to hire females, if they get the same labour at lower costs?
This is a social problem that isn’t going to go away until all men join with women to actively denounce pay gaps. This was supposed to be outlawed but has never been put into effect…how are so many countries getting away with it? Well…is it a coincidence that virtually all governments are majority male?
Agree with you about everyone fighting against pay gaps but to assume that because the government is majority male is the reason is garbage.
There’s no magic conspiracy against women’s pay here. It’s a question of private working environments being organised in a way that doesn’t benefit women as much as men.
Lots of people taking about mandatory paternity leave, that could be a step forward. But no man on here is arguing that men and women should get paid differently for the same work
That’s simply because women aren’t interested or don’t bother trying to get into government. Should we introduce a gender quota for governments to get more women into jobs they don’t want?
“All governments are majority male”
You know women are allowed to run for office and vote. There is no law keeping women from politics.
TheDoctor…if you’re going to quote me could you do it properly? I said ‘virtually all governments’…please don’t twist my words to suit yourself.
No-one is purely blaming the fact that VIRTUALLY all governments are majority male for gender pay gaps. That would be ridiculous…like I said, it’s a
social problem. When I referenced governments I was talking about laws that prevented employers from paying employees less based on their gender.
Way to completely misinterpret what I said,lads.
When you have to explain basic English…
Diarmaid, no-one said it’s just men… growing up I heard plenty of women agree with the pay gap! That’s why I said it’s a social problem :) It’s ingrained into some people. I deffo think paternity leave could be a step toward closing the gap too…there’s merit in it for sure.
Or women could work the same hours and absorb the same risks as men
I agree Carol, there are a lot of issues involved in this.
Carol, adding the word virtually to the quote doesn’t change a single thing I said.
There is no pay gap when one accounts for type of job and hours worked and number of years in the workforce. When all these factors are considered, the gap entirely disappears (Source: US Dept of Labour)
So what we have here is an industry of professional class women perpetrating the myth that somehow they are victims. Why? Due to the “bandwagon effect”. These are the sort of women who would end up benefiting from any potential affirmative action such as boardroom quotas. These women know im right, but would never admit it here.
Being paid more, or earning more?
Pat Kenny said on the radio that men tend to choose to go into higher paid jobs. I think that’s just bull. It’s more complicated.
I think societies value men’s work more for some reason. I don’t know why that is.
Anyone could work as a butcher in a meat processing plant and anyone could train and work in childcare. It’s our society and attitudes which often determine pay. Anyone could be a plumber.
For the first time ever there are more female solicitors than male. It will be interesting to see how solicitor pay rates will go over the next 10 to 40 years. If my theory is correct, we will see a relative fall in solicitor fees compared to other professions still dominated by men like security guards and electricians.
Sociologists should look into this.
Christ! After reading every single comment, all I can say is most of the men are a bunch of whiners!
You know a woman can be ambitious, working(hard, ya know doing the long hours etc etc like you men ) and study AND have children, can actually be done all at the same time?! It’s called multi tasking and us women can do it quite well!
Just tell the feminist who wrote this article to stop telling lies then!
Look how bad Germany is, interesting. I never would have guessed.
I work in construction. In the office and outside. There is one female engineer and she gets paid handsomely. More than some of the other engineers. The rest of them in the office all do administrative work nothing that requires a high degree of responsibility. They never venture on to site. They dont have to work late hours and in the 40 degree heat.
Diarmaid, no-one said it’s just men… growing up I heard plenty of women agree with the pay gap! That’s why I said it’s a social problem :) It’s ingrained into some people. I deffo think paternity leave could be a step toward closing the gap too…there’s merit in it for sure.
I’ll bet this “journalist” never bothered to read the CSO figures on the gender pay gap.
If he had he’d see it is in fact about 6% not 14%
have your say