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Updated, 13.33
THE TRADE UNION representing the country’s primary school teachers has disputed Ruairí Quinn’s claims that a new programme of school-building announced this morning will mean 106 new primary schools.
The minister for education had this morning announced details of a €1.5 billion school-building programme that will create school places for 80,000 children.
The major five-year programme will also create 15,000 construction jobs, as well as several thousand teaching posts.
Quinn said the programme will include the construction of 106 new primary schools and 43 new secondary schools, with the latter schools catering to an average student population of around 1,000 pupils each.
The programme will also see 65 extensions to existing primary schools, and 49 extensions to secondary institutions. The construction of eight new special schools is also included in the programme.
The Irish National Teachers’ Organisation, however, says only 17 new schools are being built under the new programme – with the rest of the schools instead replacing existing schools, and not the construction of new ones.
INTO general secretary Shiela Nunan said the Department of Education had announced the construction of 20 new primary schools last June – and had last week added a caveat that some of these constructions were under review.
“Today’s announcement is good news for the schools concerned although many will still have to endure unsatisfactory buildings for several more years,” Nunan said.
Quinn said the investment would ensure “that every child growing up in Ireland can access a physical school place”.
“Our programme unveiled today means that schools and parents will be able to plan much better for their children’s education at a time when enrolments at both primary and second level are rising dramatically.”
Estimates suggest that the number of Irish residents of school-going age will increase by around 70,000 between now and 2018, bringing the primary school population up by over 45,000 to 509,000, while the secondary ranks will swell to 351,000.
Quinn added that the funding for the schools was guaranteed from his Department’s capital budget of €2.2 billion for the next five years – and that any projects which stalled for planning reasons, or other hindrances, would be replaced.
The rest of the capital spending will be on refurbishments and incremental work to schools which will continue to allow for a larger school population.
Delivery of each school project will be overseen by VECs, the Office of Public Works and the National Development Finance Agency where appropriate, though decisions have not yet been made on the patronage of each school.
Quinn hailed the co-operation as “joined up thinking between Government departments and agencies in order to maximise the number of projects we deliver with best value for money for the tax-payer.”
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Well done to the interviewer on Morning Ireland who pointed out the the Minister that in December he said 80,000 places were needed and today he said 70,000 places when asked about the missing 10,000 the minister had no answer and resorted to bluffing and bullshite.
70,000 ain’t bad.
Wow, RTÉ presenter actually did their research for once, I am surprised. Often they don’t know jack.
Good news announcement, but we need a 10/20 year school budget plan. We can’t have a system where the budget for 2012 is announced 3 months into the year.
Nice brainwashing picture…..hopefully these new schools will teach not preach….
Well spotted Gavin.
Great News
Great to see Educate Together getting some real recognition for the work they’re doing.
The educate together project is a waste of money. The areas where the schools are being built are already served by excellent schools. What’s needed is separation of church from education, unfortunately this and previous governments would rather waste taxpayers money on new schools where instead they should be taking over existing schools.
@Ciaro That is totally untrue. The Deprtment does not sanction the building of any schools where there are sufficient places available. All ET schools that have been opened have been based on demand in the area driven by local parents. In areas where there are plenty of school places but a shortage of ET schools (e.g. Dublin 8) there needs to be a transformation of patronage of some of the empty schools so as to provide the places that local parents are demanding.
Dublin Eight NOT Dublin Smiley!!
Upgrade the existing schools first.
Many irish schools are a disgrace and unfit for educational purpose and unfit for children from a health & safety point.
re-read the article.
This is good news. I’m not a fan of the current Govt. but this is right and proper. When one considers how much cash the crims in FF and the PD’s had over the last 13 years and how are school buildings are neglected and run down, it makes the blood boil. Why did they not ever do something like this, suppose they just didn’t give a shite about the young Irish, or the older Irish either.
My daughters school had an open day last year.
The classrooms, the library, the labratory etc resembled a school in a third world country.
I was shocked at what I saw.
And considering we enjoyed a lengthy economic upturn this is so typical for ireland.
@Eggers,
Wake up, these people are the same as the others, empty promises! No, I’m not being negative. You watch this space, after October when you have all thought that “they’re great”, they’ll announce in the new year that it won’t be possible! No different to the other mutley crew.
No, I’m not a member of any party, I am as independent as can be!
@Eggers
I wonder what area you’re living in. I’m in Kildare where I can think of at least 4 new schools which have opened in the last decade (from greenfield sites). Also massive upgrade to others including my primary and secondary alma maters.
On a separate note, I welcome this announcement as much from a jobs perspective as an educational one.
So our childrens education is worth half of the annual repayment of forigner gambling debts. And they get it ine one lump sum, our children are made wait with no guarantee!
@Kevin & David,
Tunnel vision as I said. I am not on anyone’s side except my own thank you! I am not linking the referendum with school buildings. The point I am trying to make, if you just open your minds and read it properly, they are offering the sun, moon and stars and will up to the time that the electorate has to go and vote in October or whenever it’s supposedly been set for. Watch this space and if I have to I’ll eat my words, if not you’ll be eating yours!
@Kevin O’
Not sure where you read in my message on this thread, but I didn’t mention anything about the metro!
Great news for the education of the nations children. Good news too for workers in the construction industry.
Well done!
While this announcement is brilliant news, I’m half expecting to hear closer to the referendum how a ‘no’ vote will jeopardise this, and other, projects as we won’t be able to access the stability fund. Nobodys going to believe the ‘vote yes for jobs’ crap this time around, maybe it will be ‘vote yes for the children’. Wouldn’t put it past the lowlifes……
Yeap same bull from FG/ lab/continuity FF This is not new bigger numbers were promised in manifestos.
Let’s hope it’s done and quickly.
Its a fair link tho. If the money for these projects are funded by a loan, and the loan drys out and the state has no funds anymore to continue with them – they will need a second bailout (tbh, I think we will need a small topup). The treaty is the gates to future funding.
@ Kevin – we’d get the funding anyway, unless the French and German governments have no problem watching their own economies collapse.
Brian; Its a fair point that, if we don’t get money, we could drag down the Eurozone and thus the treaty is null and void. Even so, the treaty is not about just getting finances going forward. Its about more than that. True, in theory, it could lead to austerity. But its clutching at straws big time, and is a weak point.
Id give more weight to getting funding anyway, regardless of how we vote, over this being an austerity treaty. Because the former makes sense. :)
well, I never stated if I am for or against the Treaty. The wording hasn’t even been finalised. What I am saying is that French and German banks are so heavily indebted within the Irish economy, that if the French and German governments failed to provide funds to Ireland (inside or outside any Treaty structure, i.e. via bilateral structures or using ESF funds) then the banking sectors if France and Germany would collapse. And we all know how much they like to save – i.e. the French and Germans would have to kiss their economies goodbye.
@David,
Yes, great news, if it was going to happen! Which it won’t. I’m not being negative I’m just thinking about all the other announcement by Fine Gael/Labour, F. Fail etc. when there were elections coming up. He has announced this, not even knowing where the dam money is going to come from!
In 3 years time, they’ll go back and say, sorry due to unforeseen circumstances, the funds are no longer there. But……. in the meantime they have got our vote on the Referendum that is coming up in October, this year!!!! People should think and look ahead and around them. Irish people think the way they drive. “Tunnel vision”. Never, never look around them for dangers. They think they know where they’re going, look straight ahead, and not a thought about the dangers around them! Same as this announcement from Minister Quinn this morning.
Eh we are a long way from an election! It will happen I’d say, they announced it a year into their term along with removable of prefabs!
Doing more than Fianna Fail ever did anyway.
Kevin,
I’m talking about the Referendum voting which will be held, I assume in October. The Government need the electorate to vote yes to get it through! That is why they are announcing projects like this at this time.
Which referendum now? The treaty one? Doubt it tbh, its very soon to come up with such a detailed plan. Plus this type of stuff wont be mentioned, it’s all about austerity don’t ya know!!
The No side now linking the treaty to School building. Too funny to believe.
I think that’s a bit unfair David. The lady did not say which was she is voting, and you can hardly blame people for being sceptical with such a long history of election buying in this country. Your party are no bloody different either. You mail dropped constituents before the last election in Dublin North promising Metro North’s delivery. Soon as you were in power, ye “postponed” it. Stop all the bullshit and we might take you seriously.
Dave; With respect, this isn’t an election. Its a treaty. These proposals would have been on the cards for sometime and not just a “QUICK! Put something together and release it to the public to get them to vote Yes!”. Some of the projects have been on the cards for years, when this treaty wasn’t even on the cards. Its a bit disrespectful to think that every good announcement is all just a ploy to get people to vote a certain way on a treaty.
As for Metro North – I think id prefer the money spent on schools rather than transport at the moment. The project, along with many others, were shelved. Not scrapped. Saying that, many local TDs made silly promises on all sides of the fence and that is something that will never go away I don’t think. Regardless of party, as Sinn Fein do the same thing, its always going to be there. It happens in ALL types of elections. Even Unions. Its a way of life sadly.
@Kevin,
I love that word “shelved” just like the Report on Leas Cross and many other reports that were shelved, collecting dust, no one made accountable! I used the wrong word – election! I corrected myself saying it was the referendum on treaty. The millions that Minister Quinn is saying he’s going to put in schools is not going to happen. Tunnel vision, as I said. You all want to hear the happy story, happy ending.
It would be fantastic if it was true, it would be great if all schools did not have prefabs. It would be great if the children got special needs teachers back. They are entitled to them, the children are Ireland’s future, not mine. I would love to believe all this but I feel it is just a good story. My opinion Kevin.
Sheila; I assume since your unhappy that it has been shelved, that you would have liked to have seen Metro North go ahead? I only make that assumption because your giving out that its being shelved when they promised it would go ahead.
That was back in November, following a big review, that it was decided to put aside the project for now and focus on retaining existing infrastructure. It was said back in November 2011 that instead money would be directed at school, healthcare and job creation projects. Did you say back then that it would never happen or did you think they might just go ahead and build on that promise?
Come March 2012, we have our second major announcement for Schools. We have had job creation projects, but haven’t seen how they will work out just yet. Healthcare hasn’t really transpired just yet afaik, bar the Childrens hospital. If the government are lying, they are digging some very big holes for themselves.
These projects are to start in 2012, some anyway. If the government wanted to use this as a ploy to get “Yes” votes than they would have moved the start date to 2013. Why? If the referendum is in October, these projects would have had to be started before than to meet the targets. If the whole thing was just a gimmick to get a Yes vote, the projects would be earmarked to start after the referendum. Then you could use it in a campaign and guilt people, if you wanted, technically. Make sense?
Your conspiracy theory doesn’t stack up. I see why your view is the way it is, but I cant see how the dots join together on this one. The project in my own home town is very close to be started also, and is on the list for 2012. This has been in the pipeline for some months now, not just created a few weeks after the government were told they needed a referendum. You seem to think these projects can be announced on a whim so that further weakens your theory.
I hope I am not coming across a prick here either btw, I am just judging the theory at face value.
Im well aware it’s a treaty vote and not an election. I’m merely making the point that David there, a well known FG man on this site, need not be so dismissive when his party of choice have been so willing to lie/buy elections and votes themselves.
Sheila Byrne
I have to say I agree with you. This government like many another government are making promises in the short term so that they can have things go their own way (In this case the referendum) . Then as soon as its passed ( the referendum) the money and the will , will have dried up …
Dave; Its a sad reality when most candidate for any election (of any type), elected or not, and at least one candidate from every party, has made false promises to get elected.
Susie; Fairly sure we know this isn’t just a gimmick to get any type of votes. There is much more proof to suggest its genuine. The government has been doing a lot of “business as usual” type of announcements since the election (rather than it all being about recovery and the economy, which the last government seemed to just do) and before any mention of a possible treaty being on the cards.
Kevin .
I am not so trusting as you seem to be. I do not believe the government and I do not trust them . Business as usual has involved taking from us all ( except the rich ) and cutting services , that is not business as usual. I am amazed that they want to build 105 new primary schools , but can not keep teachers, SNA s.
@Sheila Byrne
Twice you have said something negative….. and twice you have said “I’m not being negative” in the following sentence.
If you have defend yourself…… yourself that says a lot :-)
@Ross,
I’m stating the facts. It’s not going to happen. Wake up. I am usually a very positive individual, and try my best to think of the good side of something and the bit of good in a person.
I will probably be voting “Yes” in the referendum. Why? Because I have two children, 22 and 18 yrs old. One doing his Leaving Certificate. Hoping to get to Uni. He wants ‘a Europe’, he wants the vote to be yes. So I will do that for him, as I said, Ireland is his future. On the other hand, unfortunately, my daughter is emigrating to Canada in May for work. But I am still going to vote ‘yes’ as Ireland will be her future also, please God, when and if she comes home.
The reason why I probably sound a little negative, is because we have be promised so much in the past, I just find it hard to believe it.
Sheila,
Things were never going to turn around in 1 year in Ireland. The country has been damaged to a shocking extent through the actions of many greedy individuals and business’s. It will take time and it will take a lot of little steps to get us moving forward.
As a population we need to be a little more positive and appreciate that things are starting to change… slowly. Recent announcements by Paypal, Sky, Facebook and many others shows that Ireland is starting to turn the corner. Jobs are been lost to a lesser extent and in certain area’s (IT and Bio-Pharma) there are even shortages of suitable candidates for the jobs available. I know this first hand.
We need to take these announcements as little platforms to build on. Maybe all the schools will not be built, but some will and that’s better than seeing them fall apart and close down.
Its like a big ship…our country, and it won’t turn and change direction on a 50c coin, but we are beginning to turn towards the right direction, as as the old saying goes, “Rome wasn’t built in a day”.
If only people could stop looking at what we had and lost and look at where we are now and where we want to be (whilst learning our lesson from the past).
@Ross,
I know …. things take time as I have learned in life myself. It will take 5-10 years, probably more. I believe things in life happen for a reason. It’s just sad that so many suffer, that did not cause it.
Let’s hope Minister Quinn keeps his promises Ross. See you here in 5 years!
Methinks the fascists 5 point, er I mean 5 year plan is on track. Year 1 (after lying to the electorate), slash and burn! Year 2 (especially when we have a referendum on things European), dish out the sweets! Year 3 (after duping the muppets into voting for more Euro shafting), slash and burn — and probably take back the sweets! Year 4 ( promise the muppets more sweets if they behave themselves——– scare the bejasus out of them with even more lies and……… Well, unless we elect a truly accountable Government ( accountable to the Irish People and none other) expect this truly idiotic form of governance to continue! FF perfected this screwy, un-patriotic, me fein, elitest con on the Irish muppets so it’s no surprise to see FG/Lab adopt the same sleight of hand, at least as long as it takes to secure ministerial pensions etc…. If the electorate take offence at being referred to as muppets……. TS……. It’s YOUR democracy! Take it back or forever be content to have someone’s hand up your jacksy… just like a muppet!
Any progress is to be welcomed. Rural Schools forgotten again. Labour is all over this. Their policy to close down Rural Ireland continues.
Why has this headline changed to support the Teacher Union side of the argument?
Because until the INTO came out with their comments, there WASN’T an ‘argument’. The story was up for five hours before the INTO queried the figures, and we think it’s fair that the story be amended as interest groups query it.
I would love to see it all happen too,but like Sheila I am very wary of the promises they make.Not one more cent springs to mind.
Kevin O’
If you look back on my messages on this board, you’ll notice, if you read them, I never mentioned anything about the metro. Never came up in my posts! No you’re not coming across as a prick. We all have our opinions. That’s what democracy is. I’m quite a happy person, just unhappy when someone gives empty promises, in the past …. and probably more in the future. I hope I’m proved wrong.
@Ross,
Hey Ross,
Yes, I know, there has been some good news on the jobs front. I hope it keeps up. I’m just very wary of Minister Quinn announcing, in one short breath, such a huge amount of money to be spent on Education. I just find it hard to believe that it’s going to happen. Hopefully, I’ll be proved wrong.
He’s talking about spending so much on new buildings, and then I read here on ‘journal.ie’ that a special needs child had to be driven home so he/she could use the toilet. If his/her special needs teacher was not taken away this would not have happened. Some of our society are so vulnerable and I get so upset. The child probably lost most of the day at the school which he/she needs for socialising and learning.
have your say