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'I worked for 50 years and now I am a beggar for €120': What the debt crisis is doing to Greeks

The future is uncertain, but it’s the people of Greece who are feeling the effects.

Greece Bailout Pensioners try to get a number to enter inside a bank in Athens. Associated Press Associated Press

THE FUTURE UNCERTAINTY for Greece has caused chaotic scenes in the country.

While Europe and the markets await the outcome, the people on the ground in Greece are suffering the effects.

This week thousands of pensioners besieged the nation’s crisis-hit banks, which reopened to allow them to withdraw vital cash from their state pensions.

Greece Bailout Associated Press Associated Press

“Let them go to hell!” shouted one pensioner, after failed talks between Athens and international creditors sparked a week-long banking shutdown.

Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’s government ordered the banks to close on Monday for one week and imposed strict capital controls to head off a banking collapse after panicking Greeks emptied the nation’s cash machines.

Greece Bailout Associated Press Associated Press

Athens reopened almost 1,000 bank branches for three days to allow pensioners without bank cards to withdraw €120 euros to last them the rest of the week.

Under banking restrictions imposed all week, ordinary Greeks can withdraw up to €60 a day for each credit or debit card. But many of the elderly population, who are allowed more, do not have them.

Greece Bailout Thanassis Stavrakis Thanassis Stavrakis

Greece Bailout Associated Press Associated Press

“I took the money out. I know that this is not enough, but that’s what I could take and so I took it,” said Dyonisia Zafiropoulou, a former employee of the national electricity company DEI.

She said she was convinced Greece could weather the financial crisis.

“I lived during the (WWII Nazi) Occupation, I experienced hardship and I think we will overcome this moment,” she told AFP.

 ’No money for medication’ 

Another customer, a retired sailor who also asked not to be named, told AFP he had no cash to buy crucial medicine for his sick wife.

“I worked for 50 years on the sea and now I am a beggar for 120 euros.”I have no money for medication for my wife, who had an operation and is ill.

Greece Bailout Associated Press Associated Press

The future for the young people of Greece also hangs in the balance.

“I don’t see a future in Greece,” sighs Dani Iordake. The 21-year-old, who proudly sports self-styled tattoos on his arms, was forced to drop out of university to help his mother pay the bills.

“It’s a beautiful country… (but) I couldn’t imagine living here and struggling every day.”

Greece Bailout Demonstrators shout slogans during a rally by supporters of the 'No' vote to the upcoming referendum. Associated Press Associated Press

With youth unemployment at nearly 50% and a breakdown in negotiations with Greece’s international creditors heralding further financial woes, many of Iordake’s contemporaries are packing their bags.

Over 200,000 Greeks have quit the country since the financial crisis began in 2010, according to a Endeavor Greece, a local chapter of an entrepreneurial promotional group. They have been driven away by a dearth of jobs, pitiful wages, endemic corruption and lack of meritocracy.

Scarcity of opportunities

32-year-old Christos Pennos left in 2013 because of a scarcity of opportunities in the scientific field, and managed to snap up a post as a university researcher in Norway.

“My brother lives in Spain, my best friend in Germany. I have a lot of friends in Britain, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Belgium, France and even in Poland.”

Greece Bailout People line up at an ATM outside a Piraeus bank. Associated Press Associated Press

Friends Marilena and Josie, 22 and 33, catch up over a beer and falafel sandwich, which they eat on a bench in the street while they discuss their future.

As a massage therapist, Josie cannot find full-time work and has been forced in the past to take baby-sitting and cleaning jobs to make ends meet.

“Before the crisis, I was paid €1,300 euros net. Today, I don’t get even half that, gross.”

Her boyfriend, a Syrian refugee she met while volunteering for a migrants association, is currently in the Netherlands and she’s thinking of going to live with him.

Marilena may also pack up and head to Germany, where her brother lives. He signed up with the military there and earns a €2,000 salary, with practically no expenses to pay, she said.

Greece Bailout A demonstrator shouts slogans as the sticker on her cheek reading ''YES to Greece, Yes to Euro'' during a rally. Associated Press Associated Press

The decision to leave her homeland is not one she will take lightly, however.

“It’s an option, not a must.”

For millions of Greeks worldwide, fond memories of white-washed villages under azure skies have been overshadowed by images of street protests and panicked bank queues — and fears about the country’s European future.

Anguish about relatives in Greece, feelings of helplessness and sometimes guilt are shared by many in a diaspora that spans the world’s continents and has swelled over years of economic turmoil.

Greece Bailout Associated Press Associated Press

From Melbourne to Chicago, expatriate Greeks have watched from afar as their homeland has been impoverished amid years of recession and now faces the threat of crashing out of the euro.

“Before, I felt privileged to have come to Germany, I didn’t have to live with the crisis every day”, said Yannis Sarakatsanis, an IT expert who moved to Munich three years ago.

“Now I think about it as soon as I wake up in the morning.”

“All my family is in Greece. We keep in touch daily,” said Maria Melidis, 65, whose family owns Artoplis, a popular bakery in Chicago’s bustling “Greektown”.

“It’s very hard because you’re suffering with them.”

- © AFP, 2015

Read: Greece has another €10.3 billion in debt due in 2015>

Read: Greece still wants its referendum after saying yes to a third bailout>

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    Mute Ciaran Farrell
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:52 AM

    In late 2012 I was up at 4am with a sick baby; watching BBC News 24. They had spent the day and night with cameras on the streets of Athens. The report showed OAPs going through bins behind a restaurant foraging for scraps. A elderly couple were crying with delight having found rotten onions, potato skins and other waste veg which they were bringing home to make soup. I must admit I was devastated to see this on OUR continent (maybe Africa or Asia but not in wonderful modern Europe). When interviewed these people said they had worked to retirement age but were left destitute by bad investments. I don’t have a solution, I’m no financial whizz; but I do know these decent people were abandoned by State and Europe and this has to stop. I know this is a Pan-European problem but if we can’t look after the weakest, most vulnerable then what is the point of the EU??

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    Mute Baz
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:12 AM

    Well said – hopefully the 40% of Greek people start to man up and pay their taxes as any cilivised nation do.

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    Mute Christopher Gardiner
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:42 AM

    @BAZ wil you please either take your medication or get an exorcism for the demonic hate that is festering inside you.

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    Mute Christopher Gardiner
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:43 AM

    Well said Ciaran. I too sympathise and want justice for those people. I am very disappointed though to see here alive and well on the JOurnal people who red thumb anyone with an ounce of compassion for the Greeks. You don’t have to look far for those who would love to stamp Greece underfoot. You have only to look at the comments in support of Greece and see the nay sayers with their red thumbs. Obviously no conscience and typical of many in Ireland today with the selfish I’m alright Jack attitude. CA bit like the government we have so I’m not surprised.

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    Mute Ronan Stokes
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:52 AM

    Its an unholy mess and just shows how dysfunctional Europe is.

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    Mute David G
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:01 AM

    Baz If there is one moderately respected economist who doesn’t think Greece should get debt relief I’d like you to name him or her. You haven’t a clue what you are talking about so why do you think you know better than most of the academic world who have commented on this?

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    Mute Mick Hannigan
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:07 AM

    The eu is nothing but a dictatorship and all about squeezing the life out of every country financially, time for ot to break up and just leave open trade and let each country run themselves

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    Mute Jack Dunne
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:07 AM

    Greece, just say sorry to Germany about the nazi slurs and sign your islands s over to Frankfurt

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    Mute David G
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:13 AM

    Germany say for for being actual Nazis.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:16 AM

    Well said Ciaran.
    Japan’s Debt to GDP ratio is 240% while Greece’s stands around 170%. Japan’s much higher debt ratio is easily managed while a much lower Greek debt level is unsustainable and Greek pensioners are reduced to scavenging in bins to find food as you’ve described.

    The difference between the 2 nations is that Japan is a sovereign currency issuer while Greece has been reduced to a currency user within the Eurozone.

    The Euro is a monetary trap which facilitates the transfer of wealth from the working class to a capitalist elite. This is what we see occurring in Greece and to a lesser extent in Ireland, Spain, Portugal and all the countries of the Eurozone.

    The transfer of wealth in reflected in mass unemployment, decimated health, education and social services, increasing pension ages, privatization of national infrastructure, water charges, home taxes, and a thousand other attacks on the living standards of ordinary people.

    The ECB is the monopoly issuer of the Euro and creates at will the money which is being extracted with menaces from the Greek and Irish people and which is gutting our economy and society. The rising tide of poverty and misery across the Eurozone is entirely unnecessary.

    Rather it is a deliberate policy choice of neoliberal governments and institutions which dominate the EU. They continue to insist that systemic failure of speculative financial capitalism in 2008 will be borne by ordinary people of Europe and not by those who caused it.

    There is no lack of any of the real resources (e.g. energy, food, material to build housing etc) to meet the human needs of the citizens of the Europe or anywhere in the developed world. (Or indeed the rest of the planet if the advanced industrial nations would lead the way instead of exploiting the third world.) Neither can there ever be a shortage of money at a macro level as explained. So all the ingredients are present to solve the economic and social crisis in Europe and elsewhere.

    This is economic vandalism on an epic scale being perpetrated on Greece, Ireland, Spain and Portugal for the benefit of a corporate elite under the manifestly failed ideology of neo liberalism. Solidarity with Syriza and the Greek people in their struggle against this monstrous injustice.

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:23 AM

    Baz….5% of Greeks owe 85% of the taxes.

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    Mute David Conroy
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:32 AM

    @Baz, prepare to be bullied for having common sense !

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    Mute Horses for courses
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:44 AM

    Blind blueshirt faith is far from common sense David.Look where all your common sense has got the country…….

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    Mute Shane Kinsella
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:44 AM

    no David , Baz is a clown talking nonsence who hasn’t realised yet that most people have access to Google and easily verify his BS. ” 40% OF GREEKS DONT PAY TAX”. lol

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    Mute Gabbi Johnson
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:47 AM

    Coddler you’re up early snorting out the usual guff. Any solution that’s actually in the real world of how you get the ATM’s working again? Or would you prefer the greek people to continue with the current Greek government who no longer seem to be buying your nonsense talk either? – Oh wait a minute – you introduce the drachma magic loads of money into existence and hey presto all is fine and dandy… and of course who outside Greece wouldn’t want to buy drachma – with its lovely new shiny coins.

    Economic theory and reality are two different things… it’s like the guy who knows everything about football its tactics and how a ball should be kicked – but when it actually comes to kicking a ball himself he’s utterly useless.

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    Mute David Conroy
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:00 AM

    @Horses. We are not perfect but we are in a far better place than Greece. Our politicians are far from perfect but give me an alternative that actually make sense when they open their gobs !

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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:04 AM

    Mick Hannigan I agree with you. the EU had morphed from being a European trading society into a dictatorship with Fuhrer Merkel in charge.Vassel states like Ireland, Spain, Italy and Greece exist only to keep the creaking German economy afloat. Hitler would have loved it! The Germans war debt was cancelled enabling the country to rise again but the same “uber alles” mentality exists in its government.The last time they tried to rule Europe it all ended in tears as it eventually will again.What is the point of being a member of a club that keeps your country in slavery?

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:06 AM

    David you support FG no alternative would make sense to you, so a stupid question tbh.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:09 AM

    Gabbi,
    Every regular Journal reader is aware that you’re a government party hack, paid to troll the Journal and peddle the neo liberal poison from blueshirt HQ. The objective of your ideology is to protect the interests of capital over those of the majority of citizens as clearly demonstrated by your party Fine Gael and their Labour lapdogs for the past 5 years.

    The ATMs never stop working unless the central bank decides they will. And that is precisely what’s happening in Greece. The ECB and EU authorities are waging an economic and ideological war on the Greek people.

    P.S. As you’re such an expert on economic reality. Can you explain why Japan with a much higher Debt to GDP ratio than Greece, pays a far far lower yield on its government debt?

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    Mute Horses for courses
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:14 AM

    So we should just keep the head down and struggle on because we are in better shape than Greece.SF/Ind is an alternative but one that no right winger would contemplate because in blueshirt cult circles you lot are doing a great job…..

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    Mute John Devoy
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:18 AM

    Blaming Germany is a trap that has been laid for us. The true enemy is global bankers.
    A law unto themselves. Every country is in the same boat.

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    Mute Patrick Brompton
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:24 AM

    Because the Japanese can be trusted to repay their borrowings?

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    Mute Drew TheChinaman :)
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:39 AM

    No one has to trust the Japanese… most of their debt is actually owed to their own citizens. Mostly the life savings of older generations held in government bonds.

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    Mute OhPlease
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:49 AM

    Enda Kenny is one-in saying that he’s not an economist just a really really crappy teacher turned non leader. See the Greek finance minister has spoken up looking for ireland to get a write off in debt. Think we should pay him Enda and noonans salary – at least he’s ‘worth it’.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 10:09 AM

    Patrick,

    Not really. it’s because a sovereign currency issuing state (e.g. Japan, New Zealand, Canada etc) can sustain any size of debt once it is denominated in the domestic currency as the debt and any interest is paid via simple keystrokes at the central bank. It’s an economic fact that a sovereign currency issuing state can never be forced to default on its own currency denominated debt and go bankrupt.

    Therefore these nations determine what yield they will pay on their government bonds, not the financial markets as in the case of Japan. There is a good example of this right now where the Swiss Government is actually charging investors to buy their government bonds (so called ‘debt’). Buyers of Swiss debt are getting a negative interest rate and are willing to pay money to hold Swiss bonds. They are paying 0.75% to park their money. In other words, it is a secure deposit facility offered by the Swiss Franc, backed by a sovereign currency issuer. That is why such Swiss government ‘debt’ is issued. Switzerland don’t need to borrow anything to spend in a currency they create from thin air.

    In contrast, the Euro currency union was deliberately designed to allow the financial markets to gouge profit from Eurozone nation debt. It’s only the Eurozone countries that are required to borrow their own currency in the market at an interest rate determined by the market as the EU allows the financial markets to set the borrowing rate for Euro countries on an individual basis with the ECB is the sole issuer of the currency and the nations prohibited from creating the currency themselves.
    The ECB & EU are now using this institutional power to hold the Greek people to ransom.

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    Mute Stephen Byrne
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 10:16 AM

    So waddler are you advocating Greece leaves the E.U and fends for itself?

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    Mute Stephen Byrne
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 10:20 AM

    By the way this is the affect on Switzerland with their magic money created from nothing ;

    Swiss Economy Unexpectedly Shrinks After Strong Franc Stifles Exports
    By Catherine Bosley
    http://bloom.bg/1ABoFAv
    Bloomberg

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 10:28 AM

    Stephen,
    All developed nations have fiat free floating currencies created primarily on computer keyboard, not just the Swiss. So the Dollar, Sterling yen, Yuan/RMB etc etc are all in fact “magic money” as you describe it.

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    Mute David Conroy
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 10:30 AM

    @Norman, I am not a FG supporter and I judge on what makes sense and who sounds the most credible . No such thing as a stupid question only stupid answers tbh !

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 10:31 AM

    Stephen
    And yes. Greece will ultimately be better served by leaving a currency union dominated by the interests of capital over the welfare of the majority. (Ditto for Ireland)

    In addition, the EU should assist Greece through the transition from the Euro back to the Drachma. But based on the actions of the EU/ECB to date, they will do everything in their power to sabotage the Greek economy as a lesson to other nations who would even consider electing left wing governments which protect the welfare of their citizens and not the capitalist elite.

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    Mute Paul Dunne
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 11:04 AM

    heard Paul murphy on the radio saying he’s going to Greece to campaign I hope he’s paying his own way and not charging it to his expense account.

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    Mute littleone
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 11:12 AM

    And now the IMF are saying Greece needs large-scale debt relief to create “a breathing space” and stabilise the economy. Days before the referendum, the IMF are now saying this. What will enda and co do now if Greece gets a large scale debt relief. This is something syriza has been saying for months now and now it seems the IMF are saying it. https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=nl6WVZrBHObg7QbOkqrgAg&url=http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/02/imf-greece-needs-extra-50bn-euros&ved=0CCgQFjAE&usg=AFQjCNGBI1pqou_Mi4YdcCN51abBa5rHHg

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    Mute littleone
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 11:16 AM

    What baz , all the former right wing politicians that have cosy HSBC Swiss bank accounts and evaded taxes. The politicians that the IMF know all about. Hence the name of the list that these accounts are on. The lagarde list.

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    Mute Stephen Byrne
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 11:20 AM

    Your basic understanding of how money is created fails to take any understanding of economics into play. If The Swiss or Japan print more money or keystroke it their currency devalues against other currencies. The new drachma will be worthless much like Venezuelan money is outside of that country so Imports become too expensive. The reason left wing economies don’t work is this basic lack of understanding.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 11:47 AM

    No Stephen. It’s you that have a lack of understanding as evidenced by your “magic money comment”

    There is no direct relationship between monetary expansion and foreign exchange devaluation. There are in fact no models which can accurately predict Fx movements such is the number and complexity of interrelated variables involved.

    You can see this clearly where sterling has gained very strongly against the Euro despite the fact that the U.K. has engaged in much larger monetary expansion under its QE programs since 2009 than the Eurozone has implemented.

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jan/22/quantitative-easing-around-the-world-lessons-from-japan-uk-and-us

    The U.S has implemented an even larger QE program and has added $3.5 trillion to its balance sheet since 2009.

    http://www.bloombergview.com/quicktake/federal-reserve-quantitative-easing-tape

    and again, despite this massive dollar expansion, the dollar gains in value against the Euro.
    If you can point to any analysis which shows a direct relationship between monetary expansion and Fx devaluation, please do so.

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    Mute Thomas Aquinas
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 12:31 PM

    you know coddler that every journal reader who disagrees with you is a Government hack, a neoliberal, a blue shirt, an economic illiterate, a paid shill, clueless, drooling, drivelling troll? But we’re not. We just see through the bs you cut and paste. I called you out months ago on cut and paste from, if I remember, the NEP website and since then every response from you has been personalised abuse. Give us a real example of where the economic policy you espouse has resulted in an economy with real full employment and real social justice. No guff. One example. BTW I am not a blue shirt or a paid Fine Gael shill or a party hack. I am a retired businessman who provided real jobs to real people, who despises the me feinery and populism of Fianna Fail which largely got us into this mess (and was laughed at by most people in 2006/ 2007 when I said we were heading for a crash), who despises the spew of Sinn Fein whose military wing nearly got me killed and made me homeless in London in the 1970s, who rejects the politics of permanent protest and revolution and above all who cannot stand the duplicity and dishonesty of this Government. But it is entirely clear to me that we have built an unsustainable public service staffed by too few well meaning hard working lower grades who are led by too many donkeys in the senior grades. And that public service has created a social system that disincentivises work, that encourages dependence and that reinforces cyclical intergenerational poverty.

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    Mute Thomas Aquinas
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 12:42 PM

    coddler when the Swiss Government issues bonds, how does it sell them?

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    Mute kevin windle
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 1:38 PM

    Ciaran. Greece over borrowed and now they don’t want to pay so their lenders have pulled the plug on any more loans. I’m sorry but what exactly are we supposed to be feeling sorry about? Hundreds of thousands of Irish people have had to tighten their belts significantly over the past 5 years to survive and thankfully our government had the sense to realise that the lenders were holding all the cards so they made sure that there was finance available.Yes we got stitched up on the bank debt but at least we’re not out fighting on the streets over food. Greece has let itself down.

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    Mute David G
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 1:48 PM

    It’s funny that you think Greek people haven’t tightened their belts. The should have been given a write down 5 years ago but the institution(German and French banks) were considered too weak to take a hit on Greek Debt.

    Since then most of that debt has found it’s way into public ownership, like kind of a stealthy bail out of these banks. Very little of the money that Greece has been bailed out for has actually gone to Greece.

    Now they don’t want to write any of it down because they know Ireland, Spain and Portugal will come looking for the same and it would mean admitting they made a mess of the whole thing 5 years ago.

    The institutions are in the wrong here and that is before we even being to discuss the fact they are threatening the Greeks by closing their banks…… No European bank will fail???? Yeah right.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 3:00 PM

    Tommy,
    I’m getting bored with the sniping. You claim I’m abusing you personally and in the same post you accuse me of plagiarism without any sense of irony. All my posts are my own work and when I do include material from other people, I use quotation marks and provide the link. That’s the truth. Take it or leave it as you wish.

    My purpose here is not to score points off you but to inform people on better alternatives to the current exploitative system which has the bulk of the globes’ population living in varying degrees of poverty and misery.

    You asked for examples of full employment and real social justice.

    The New Deal implemented in the U.S. in the 1930s was effectively a full employment program and resulting jobs and incomes inarguably improved economic and social conditions for millions of Americans. Other more recent examples from the last decade include the Rural Employment Guarantee in India and the Jefes program in Argentina.

    As you mentioned the NEP, here’s what they have to say on the subject.

    “There have been many job creation programs implemented around the world, some of which were narrowly targeted while others were broad-based. The American New Deal included several moderately inclusive programs such as the Civilian Conservation Corp and the Works Progress Administration. Sweden developed broad based employment programs that virtually guaranteed access to jobs.

    From WWII until the 1970s a number of countries, including Australia, maintained a close approximation of full employment (measured unemployment below 2%) through a combination of high aggregate demand plus loosely coordinated direct job creation. (Often there would be an informal “employer of last resort”, such as the national railroads, that would hire just about anyone.) As Bill Mitchell argues, a national commitment to full employment spurred government to implement policies that created jobs—even if it did not explicitly embrace a national and universal JG/ELR program.”

    http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/04/mmp-blog-47-the-jg-elr-and-real-world-experience.html

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    Mute Tim
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 3:02 PM

    Al Ca. That maybe true but the blame for this lay firmly at the feet of the Greek people for electing successive governments that failed to do anything about it

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    Mute Baz
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 3:26 PM

    @shane – you are right chum. My mistake it’s not 40% who don’t pay tax in Greece – it’s 60%

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/31/greece.taxes/

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    Mute Thomas Aquinas
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 3:57 PM

    I was bored of your cut and paste long ago Codder. When I get an 80% match between one of your posts and one from another website I regard that as plagiarism. It is not abuse. You’ve only started putting quotations on since you have been called out. You say you are merely informing but when you question the credentials of people with a different opinion and when you rubbish those opinion s you are going beyond informing and moving into preaching. Like the MMD proponents you decline to answer the criticisms of that description (your pal Mike says it’s not a theory but a description) but rather squeal ‘tell me where I am wrong’ (even though you have already been told) or you say ‘that’s different’ or ‘that’s a special case’s. So how does MMD explain inflation or foreign earnings or exchange rates? The dollar has gained against the Euro in spite of QE because the Eurozone economy as a whole is not doing well. But isn’t it strange how this rubbish currency is still holding up in spite of everything? So the New Deal and those other examples you mention are pure MMD examples of how to stimulate an economy? I wonder why so many Keynesians have a problem with MMD – any ideas? And do tell me how the bond markets work please.

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    Mute Coddler Rooney
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:15 PM

    Tommy,
    Ok, I tried to be civil and it hasn’t achieved anything.

    Your self pity and satisfaction is a little nauseating frankly.
    You whinge that you were made “ homeless in London in the 1970s” while you cheerlead the policies now that make may more homeless in Greece and Ireland.

    “I am a retired businessman who provided real jobs to real people,”
    Like every other business, you’ve never provided a single job without the expectations of profit. That profit is generated from the excess value which your workers created from their labour (and other workers indirectly) over and above their wages. That is the essence of capitalism.

    You have now managed to accumulate enough profit thanks to the labour of your employees and other workers that you’ve been able to retire early on a comfortable pension and are looking to be patted on the back for your efforts while you sneer at those less fortunate than yourself. Spare us please.

    I suspect you desperately need to believe that all the money you’ve managed to hoard is something more than electronic keystrokes and this is at the root of your refusal to accept how the monetary system actually works.

    All your questions on inflation, exchange rates and the bond markets have been answered a dozen times so I won’t waste my time trying to impart that understanding to your primitive publican’s brain.again.

    You’re a retired pint puller with a comfortable nest egg and a chip on his shoulder. I think I’ll refer to you as Egg & Chips from now on.

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    Mute cian o'gorman
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:22 PM

    What are you talking about. The USD went to 1.40 against the EUR. The only reason it’s here now is because the ECB did QE which weakened the EUR. That and the fact that the FED will raise interest rates later this year. If you were a trader you would be out on your ear after a day. You also state that sovereigns can’t decide the yield on their bonds. They can but not the price. The market determines that. Ever hear of a failed auction.

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    Mute James Delaney
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:39 PM

    @Baz – Why don’t U direct your comment at speculative German Bank who commanded high interest rate for lending money to Greece, Spain Ireland & Italy. This situation should not have been allowed to happen – Our Masters in Europe are guilty. Greeks should not be treated in this way – they have their pride. For me – The ? is – How much debt was written-off for Germany after WW II ! They have conveniently forgotten bout that.

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    Mute Thomas Aquinas
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:02 PM

    self pity and satisfaction… don’t usually go together but it says a great deal about you that you put them together. if you regard 72 as early retirement I wonder what you think of Greek civil servants retiring after 35 Years at 52… you know little about Greek society if you believe there will be many homeless. yes I made profit which I put back into business and helping others get started in business andvrewarded hard work. I took out no more than I needed for my quite simple lifestyle and pension and passed on the rest to people who needed it more than me. I have given homeless men a place to sleep and put quite a few back on the straight and narrow. I never preached but have had plenty like you preach at me. But thanks for the reiteration of your pure Marxist belief. and the reason you don’t answer the questions is because you cannot answer them without undermining your self image. Your theory is rubbish founded on the notion that adding numbers to the debit column creates credit. Even Keynes did not do that.

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    Mute dave ocallaghan
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:15 AM

    All because speculators and the banking elite want their gambling money back with the chips went against them, this is nothing short of theft and the reality of how enslaved we all are in the modern world

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    Mute Jack Dunne
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:47 AM

    What gambling money, what speculators?

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    Mute Pepper Brooks
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:48 AM

    If they taxed their country properly they wouldn’t have this problem. However the people won’t elect reformers to do this because it’s unpopular. Instead they elect spoofers like Syriza who want to increase spending of money they don’t have!! Therefore they are just in an endless circle.

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    Mute Wayne O'Fathaigh
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:53 AM

    You realise most creditors
    Have taken a approx 50% write down all ready

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    Mute Christopher Gardiner
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:20 AM

    @Jack the banks in Greece like Ireland got the money. Less than ten per cent of bailout money went to the greek economy. The bankers and bondholders again (which are German and other banks) got the money. Same s**t different day in Greece and Ireland. The bankers and the well off in Greece got the money and have been for years. Its the rich in greece who are corrut not the ordinary people who have been decimated with cuts to basic wages and pensions. I read where one woman of 94 has 327 euro a month to live on and they wanted to Cut pensions like that in the new bailout terms and the Greek Minister to his credit said no to protect ordinary people. Bankers were protected all along and the EU loved it. Now its ordinary people being protected and all hell is breaking lose in the Eu simply because the dictators have been told no.

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    Mute Christopher Gardiner
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:20 AM

    @Pepper that anohter propaganda that ignorant people liek to throw out. Its the super rich that have been getting their way under corrupt governments in Greece who have been avading tax. The ones the EU have been protecting thats who is evading tax. At least try to see past the propaganda rather then reel off someones lies.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:34 AM

    Christopher !00% of the money went to the Greek economy. Saying otherwise is disingenuous.
    Successive Greek governments ran up debts for the day to day running of the country. That is their debt. They now borrow to pay that debt, (allowing them spend monies raised to run economy)
    rolling the debt over, like many governments from the USA to practically every other country. Their debt ball has got to big from rolling over to much of it.
    It is not the same as bank debt that was nationalised in Ireland.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:36 AM

    *100%*

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    Mute Pepper Brooks
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:37 AM

    Show me some proof Christopher. What about the massive cash economy that’s been prevalent in Greece for decades? Was that not the ordinary people?

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    Mute Joe Harbison
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:47 AM

    It’s not just the super rich, it’s anybody who runs a cash based business, including lots of professionals, and complete lack of governance of the system. It’s blatant ‘pork barrel’ politics where being elected meant you could appoint supporters to permanent jobs in the civil service. The Greek debt is unsustainable, the whole world knows that, but it’s not unreasonable for the rest of Europe to say that they’re not giving any more cash until serious reforms are implemented.

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    Mute David G
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:06 AM

    Pepper, it amazes me how people come on here and talk about something they know nothing about. No one is saying Greece shouldn’t reform, in fact the current government there want to reform, but they want debt relief so Greece can grow out of this and see some light at the end of the tunnel.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:09 AM

    Yeah David but how deep and meaningful the reforms are, that’s the real sticking point.

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    Mute David G
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:18 AM

    Tom, the troika are openly trying to get rid of a democratically elected government( again like they did in Italy ). Syriza want to change Greece but they want debt relief and the troika want them gone because if they give it to Greece, Ireland and Spain will want it to. Simple

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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:23 AM

    Tom, Of any money the Greeks got by way of bailout, 92% went straight to German and French banks.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:25 AM

    David the governments from other countries have a mandate to do the best for their countries, ie. get as much of the money they lent to Greece back.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:33 AM

    Italy is owed €37 billion, France €42 billion, Germany €56 Billion, Spain €25 billion, have their citizens no rights ?

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:36 AM

    It went to German and french banks etc to pay Greek government debt

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    Mute Wayne O'Fathaigh
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:38 AM

    Dave to pay debt on bonds the money from which had been ploughed into the Greek economy! Or were the bonds sold by the Greek government to pay for banks too?

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    Mute David G
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:41 AM

    Tom cop on, you think the troika are doing this for us? Plus no one is saying they should pay this off, they just want some restructuring so they can grow out if this. This was all the troika’s fault for not getting their sums right in the first bail out.

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    Mute Egg Head
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:43 AM

    If the reforms involve removing liquidity from the economy, which cutting public spending or increasing foreign debt/interest repayments will do, then it won’t work. If you add to your debt while simultaneously reducing your GDP your debt/GDP ratio grows, and the problems worsen. Without restructuring current Greek debt throwing more money at the problem and demanding these same reforms will lead to the same results, and we’ll have to keep bailing them out till eternity. A debt write off on debts to the EU will essentially just act as the fiscal transfer that needs to be in place for a currency union to have any chance of functioning efficiently anyway.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:48 AM

    The IMF is calling for debt relief as part of a new deal, looks like the so called “looney left” Greek government are beginning to make some inroads that our government failed to day.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:58 AM

    Everyone knows they have to get more debt relief, but as part of a structured package.
    The looney left idea is give us money but we’re not willing to reform.

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    Mute Lennie
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:02 AM

    Agreed it’s happening here to, asset stripping by these elite vultures. The amount of Nama property being sold for a song and also Irish Water will be sold of soon.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:02 AM

    Tom the present Greek government was implementing reforms not as fast the troika would have liked but they were doing it.One example is the issuing of receipts. It became illegal not to issue a receipt and inspectors regularly did spot checks to enforce it.This did not happen before .But you like others expected a government in office for 6 months to cure the ills of over 20 years.

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    Mute Sean
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:07 AM

    Correct Tom.

    Conspiracy theories are mental.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:45 AM

    No they weren’t Norman, they got elected by promising to reverse them. Stop Bu*lshi*ting

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:49 AM

    I guess Tom you know it all so, every source I’ve read and listened to about what has happened in Greece is wrong.Btw in you want to converse behave like an adult if not p*ss off.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 10:22 AM

    Everyone (except you Norman) know Syriza were elected on the promise of reversing the adjustments.reforms made by the previous Government.
    How in your world is that “implementing reforms”
    You simply make it up as you go, pathetic

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    Mute ciaran
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:13 AM

    tax them into submission or out of existence, eu and imf dierective (cheered on by our own fg)

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    Mute Rod_TenⒸ
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:20 AM

    Paul Murphy is flying in to sort it out, no worries so.

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    Mute Sean
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:04 AM

    This guy is the exception.

    - Here’s sone cold hard facts that your comment or this article fails to mention. 66% of the country worked for the public factor.

    - A huge amount worked three day weeks. Greece pissed away money and they spent crazy cash and lived the good life.

    - huge debt was accumulated.

    - productivity was not a thing.

    - apathy was.

    As much as you might red thumb this these things *did* happen hence why they are where they are. If I spend 150 in brown Thomas I will not expect my neighbours to call over later and pay for it. They also avoid specifics in negotiations.

    You have to pay for your bread or your chickens will come home to roost.

    I feel sorry for the guy in article but he’s certainly the exception. If they all did what he did the country would not be where it is.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:11 AM

    Sean you claim cold hard facts, it shouldn’t be a problem for you to provide a link to your facts so.

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    Mute Dave Meagher
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:56 AM

    He left out that they cooked the books to enter the euro. FACT

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    Mute Ciarán
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 10:13 AM

    Sean so should the young people of Greece be made to stuffer another 10 years? 20? How much penance for their parents and grandparents mistakes will be enough to satiate your desire for punishment? The current bailout was unsustainable, all proposed bailouts are unsustainable, hell the Greeks even agreed to meet the fiscal goals set out in the package but then the EU and IMF rejected their plan because they didn’t like how it was implemented, they wanted it to have less tax hikes and more spending cuts. This is powerful foreign interests pedantically trying to impose their desired fiscal policy on an impoverished nation as for many of its citizens their world’s collapse around them. Can’t raise taxes that’ll hurt growth they say. One wonders where their concern for growth was when they forced savage cuts on the Greeks causing a drop in GDP of over 20% relative to pre crisis levels

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    Mute Eóin McAnaspie
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 10:33 AM

    It’s ridiculous how many people comment on here knowing nothing about the Greek financial situation.

    Right before Greece entered the Euro its currency was spiralling out of control. Inflation was going haywire. When Greece entered the Euro, it placed government personal into its public banks and those people were able to indulge the country into the perfect scam.

    Greek banks would borrow from German banks at a very low interest rate which in turn leant to the Greek government. This continued on a monumental scale until the crash in 2008…

    So what happened? In 2008 as we all know the debt fueled intoxication of the growth period between ~1980 and 2008 came to a crashing end. It came to an end because of the mortgage backed security crisis that put a lot of pressure on the German banks which all of a sudden were unwilling or unable to lend to the Greek government. With the sudden cut-off of the debt fueled air-supply the Greek government started to see it’s growth slow and all of a sudden the debt to GDP ratio went from scary to terrifying to nightmare on elm street scary.

    It’s purely their governments fault for cooking the books so badly and deceiving the German banks so much. I truly feel sorry for the Greek people.

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    Mute Robbie Kelly
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 3:22 PM

    No need to spread BS like this Sean and putting little stars **** next to the word did still doesn’t make it true, most Greeks are hard working decent folk so read the link and f off back under a rock!

    http://www.ekathimerini.com/137574/article/ekathimerini/comment/umbrella-union-10-myths-about-greece-and-the-crisis

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    Mute Robbie Kelly
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 3:32 PM

    You can bet their books were well examined by the EU before they were allowed into anything Dave (if I write FACT here then we can all be sure it’s true)

    http://www.ekathimerini.com/137574/article/ekathimerini/comment/umbrella-union-10-myths-about-greece-and-the-crisis

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    Mute john Appleseed
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:43 AM

    Must be very scary for the Greek people now. I just don’t understand a what this referendum is about?

    I think it’s time to take the 3rd bailout and start some serious reforms in Greece. To be fair, the Greek governments have been take the mick for years. Retire at 52?!

    Snake oil salesman.

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    Mute Jack Dunne
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:56 AM

    The referendum is about divorce, divorce from the EU

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    Mute David Kirwan
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:00 AM

    The vote is about getting out of an unsustainable debt load, as acknowledged by the recent wiki leaks.

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    Mute David Kirwan
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:01 AM

    The IMF is on record saying “these new financing needs render the debt dynamics unsustainable.”

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    Mute john Appleseed
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:02 AM

    They’ve accepted a third bailout and voting on whether to accept the terms of the second bailout?

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    Mute Christopher Gardiner
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:11 AM

    Read about it then. Its about saying no to the horrible abuse these people are taking from the Eu for years that has impoverished Greece. If you needed a loan of a hundred euro and someone offered to give it but wanted 150 back and if you didn’t pay on time it kept going up and up and up then they decided one day to come to your door and demand all or if. Now imagine that money was all you had to live on. Now imagine having to hand over all your money leaving you with nothing. That whats the EU are doing to Greece and they have said no. The NO vote they want sunday is not a no vote to the EU or the Euro its a NO to the loan conditions the EU want to impose on the bailout money. So please stop and think. The people in Greece are suffering not because they decided to say no but because they have been saying yes and it has reduced their country to ashes, Time to say no to the horrible bailout conditions. OXI (greek for NO).

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    Mute Tom Kelly
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:22 AM

    People do realise that if Greece leave Europe there problems ain’t over? The IMF may be vultures but if they lend money they need a guarantee that it will be paid back. The system is broken but for now it’s the one we have.

    Whatever happens God help the Greek people because their brothers and sisters of Europe have let them down.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:46 AM

    Tom how exactly are Greece going to leave Europe? there is no legal mechanism in place to kick them out? Just answer in facts if you can, no guesses please.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:54 AM

    Norman, as told to you before, upon joining the euro you sign up to terms and conditions, you’re not free to change them as you please. Greece would in effect be removing itself from the euro by breaking the terms and conditions.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:58 AM

    Tom there are rules, but again as I said they did not incorporate a mechanism for kicking out a country.As the Euro is permanent allowing for the kicking out of a country gives the impression that it’s just not that permanent. Did you know that part of joining the Euro was the destruction of currency presses of the joining country.

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    Mute John Devoy
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:07 AM

    John Appleseed

    If the Greeks wish to retire at 19 years of age it is none of our concern. What happened to the sovereignty of nations?

    An attack on Greek independence is an attack on Irish Independence.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:09 AM

    So anyway can you point to anything in the set up of the Euro that states a country can be forced out.I get emails off the Journal so take your time I’ll check later.; )

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    Mute John Devoy
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:14 AM

    Norman

    Greece will not be allowed leave the common currency as slavery is never optional.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:31 AM

    Norman the ecb will turn off the tap if they vote no, then according to Jens Nordvig, global head of currency strategy at Nomura, this would mean that the euros held by Greek banks would become separated from the euros in the rest of the eurozone and over time would turn into a separate currency.
    Also http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33319917

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:33 AM

    Just because you don’t know the exact mechanism doesn’t mean it can’t/won’t happen.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:36 AM

    So you can’t point to anything in the setup that allows for kicking out a country so.Thought so.

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:40 AM

    Btw Tom according to the Lisbon tray a country can neither leave or get kicked out of the Euro.All this info is on line have a look.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:41 AM

    I’ve a better idea, you show me something that says a country can’t be removed………..

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:42 AM

    Norman what exactly do you think it means to SIGN UP to an agreement

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:44 AM

    Lisbon Treaty ,Tom you know the one we made vote on twice till we give the right answer.Educate yourself and have a read then you won’t be posting untruths.; )

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 10:17 AM

    Norman your childlike arguments are silly, The Lisbon Treaty is an AGREEMENT.
    Dictionary meaning of treaty = a written agreement between two or more countries, formally approved and signed by their leaders:
    So who is BREAKING the treaty Norman ?

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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 10:52 AM

    Tom, in Greece’s case, the Trokia. I doubt there are clauses that precludes Left wing governments, or that entitles the Trokia to engineer electoral coups, that says peripheral countries must pay off the gambles of international bankers, when those gambles fail, that private debts must be socialized on the backs of ordinary citizens of Europe.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 11:25 AM

    “gambles of international bankers,” most of greeces debt is to fellow european citizens (their governments. Luckily for us it is less than half a billion to Ireland.
    gambles of international bankers may have been true when lending to other banks such as Annglo.
    In Greeces case all the money owed was lent to the Greek people via their successive Governments

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    Mute Denise Friary
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:28 AM

    The Germans are bullying the Greeks to take austerity like they did with us.

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    Mute West Cork Lad
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:51 AM

    You know the score,Denise-and they have the audacity on here to call you a ‘troll’ .As if !

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    Mute Denise Friary
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:26 AM

    West Cork lad I heard all ye Cork people are rebels as if.

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    Mute Baz
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:23 AM

    I’ve a few friends from Athens who were in tears with me earlier. All voted looney left with Syriza. All voting yes on Sunday. #sadtimes

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    Mute ciaran
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:33 AM

    lol, like people in Greece decided to ring you in their anguish and fear to relay to you their voting past
    sounds like something enda would say

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    Mute David Carroll
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:46 AM

    @Baz – lol, that you Enda?

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    Mute Mr. Dave
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:47 AM

    Its the past governments of Greece, or the ‘looney right’ that put Greece in the pridiciment. All the current government are trying to do is to force the EU’s hand by getting a far better bailout package for it’s people.
    It’s sheeple like you with that attitude is why people like Kenny &co keep getting voted in.

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    Mute West Cork Lad
    Favourite West Cork Lad
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:49 AM

    Vote yes for more ‘Austerity’ or vote yes for ‘Bankruptcy’ -Great choices – I do hope that your friends get over their sadness on Monday ,lad .

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    Mute liam lawless
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:00 AM

    Give it a rest Baz. This is people’s lives not a party political broadcast

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    Mute Christopher Gardiner
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:27 AM

    Poor “westcork” another gael clone

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    Mute Christopher Gardiner
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:28 AM

    Hi Baz. Get a life. Do you actually think anyone with a brain actually can’t see through your ingorant stupid propaganda comment. Another troll. Ye like to call anyone against vulture capitalism loony. I wonder why is it “loony” for ordinary people to demand their rights? So its not loony to let bankers and the super rich destroy a people and economy with crushing austerity just for profits? Your comment is an example of the sheepish clones being churned out by Fianna Gael and Labour.

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    Mute West Cork Lad
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:42 AM

    Christopher – I don’t know which one has upset me the most ? Being called “Westcork” or being called a ‘Gael clone’.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:45 AM

    Christopher Gardiner the fact that you compare nationalised bank debt in Ireland to Greek government debt as “the same” shows your complete ignorance of the situation.
    Also over 90% of greek debt is to fellow European countries, meaning Dutch, French, German citizens are owed that money, not some bond holder in an Ivory tower that you like to portray.
    Educate yourself please.

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    Mute gerry o donell
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:01 AM

    @ baz another lie you have no friends in any country.

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    Mute Mick Bacon
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:04 AM

    Liar you don’t have any friends in Greece or anywhere else ,stop making up stories to justify your hatred .

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    Mute Mark Mulligan
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:15 AM

    @ Baz – I’m actually impressed with your comment, it takes a really special person with a diminished capacity to create a spectacular piece of bullshi* like that!! Now if there’s any words in that sentence you don’t understand don’t you worry your pretty little head about it, just lie to yourself that it’s a compliment and you’ll be fine.

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    Mute gerry o donell
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:19 AM

    I have a few friends in Mayo, who were in tears they voted for enda and are inconsolable, some are suicidal others are furious. The one thing they all agree is that enda has brought shame not only on this country but to them he has destroyed mayo’s fine reputation. Now when people ask where they are from they say Leitrim.

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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:25 AM

    David, my thoughts exactly, that baz is some effing cowboy.

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    Mute Pantytoetoejam123
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:27 AM

    Of course you do Baz, along with your friends who won’t be voting SF again

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    Mute Shane Hickey
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:33 AM

    read back on what you posted. you blame the previous government for Greece’s problems but lay the blame for Ireland’s troubles on the current government. I think you’re an idiot

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    Mute Shane Kinsella
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:36 AM

    Baz ya big clown.

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    Mute John Devoy
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:50 AM

    Unbelievable… Literally.

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 12:37 PM

    Baz has friends?

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    Mute Setrakian
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:39 AM

    Baz has a few friends from Athens – yeah sure you do. Syriza didn’t cause this problem Baz – successive centre right parties similar to the great FF / FG have ruined Greece over the decades but don’t let that stop you talking nonsense. Say hi to you’re imaginary Greek friends & wish them well casting their imaginary votes on Sunday for me!

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    Mute Christopher Gardiner
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:04 AM

    You’ve got hat spin all wrong. The people in Greecare suffering not because they called for a vote. This is the end result of what the EU has been doing to Greece for the last 6 years. Its ony now the Greek people are NO no more will we take this abuse. You make it seems like they are suffering Because they decided to stand up for themselves. Very clever propaganda going non here Journal but its well exposed.

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    Mute Tom Kenny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:05 AM

    What the EU has been doing to Greece for the last number of years is lending them money when no one else would, knowing they were probably never getting it all back and Greece would be getting further write downs.
    How does that make them the bad guys ?

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    Mute Egg Head
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:31 AM

    Because the conditions they attached to those loans were counterproductive and have resulted in the ballooning of the Greek debt from c.120% to 170% of GDP and growing. Might seem generous to keep throwing money at them, but in hindsight they’d have been better served accessing market funds at 10-20% rather than accepting the bailout cash.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:40 AM

    Stop coming on here telling it like it is Tom…

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    Mute BERTIE
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:23 AM

    FG and Labour, the party line spouted from them is look at Greece, this could have been us! So even though they admit The hardship the Greeks are going through, Chancellor Kenny and Herr Noonan are quite happy to stick the booth in while they’re down. What cowardly bully boys our public representatives are. It should disgust any decent human being to see others less fortunate be subjected to more suffering. You would hope that a “UNION” would mean helping each other but that’s just a pipe dream of an ordinary human being. All that said it is the duty of all decent human beings to stand up against the bully boys

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    Mute Christopher Gardiner
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:34 AM

    The sadder point Bertie is I can understand heartless cold politicians like Gael and Labour because they sold out their own people. But to think there are sheep here supporting them who don’t even have the capacity to use their own brain or intelligence to read about Greece and get the truth for themselves. They parrot the like of Kennny Noonan and Burton and sheepishly lap up every single word they speak. Liars love liars don’t they. The greeks have aready shown up Ireland. The courage of the Greek ministers is in stark contrast to the roll over and lick a** approach our leechs took in the EU. Cowards and their followers always get scared of brave people you see. They can’t hide behind them.

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    Mute FlopFlipU
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 6:22 AM

    It’s now a concentration camp ,of sorts

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    Mute gerry o donell
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:08 AM

    Finegael the party of cowards. Too weak to stand up to the bullies in Europe, but then like any bully hiding their cowardice, they take their bullying out on the weakest sections of the Irish public. Enda is a horiible brain dead coward.

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    Mute Jimmy jones
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:57 AM

    Paul Murphy is going over there. He will be able to see first hand the amount of damage and destruction that can be done by radical socialist policies.

    It’s a pity Pearse Doherty couldn’t join him.

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    Mute David G
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:11 AM

    That’s always the way, the right make a mess of things, the left fix things and then the right blames the left. The current Greek government is not a bunch of Looney lefties, many of them are respected economics and academics. You are just listening to the propaganda, good for you.

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    Mute Jimmy jones
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:34 AM

    Tsipras and Varoufakis are two clowns. They are trying to turn Greece into Zimbabwe.

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    Mute Thomas Mac
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:41 AM

    What happened in Zimbabwe ,Jimmy ?

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    Mute Norman Hunter
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:51 AM

    Jimmy the Greek government has sought debt relief and an extending payment period of the loans, those “loonies” in the IMF are saying both of these should be part of a new deal.Looks like the only clowns are FG/Lab.

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    Mute Egg Head
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:35 AM

    That’s always the way is it David, the left cleaning up the mess left by the right? That was how thatcher rose to power I suppose, to herald a socialist revolution after the unrestricted free marketeers of Callaghan and Wilson’s Labour governments led to the IMF bailing out the UK in the late 70s.

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    Mute Rod_TenⒸ
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:18 AM

    I feel sorry for the pensioners, the ones outside Greece that is.

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    Mute John Campbell
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:35 AM

    As ever in these national crises it is the most vulnerable in society who are the hardest hit. To have allowed the Greek economy to implode is a shame on all the bureaucrats in the EU.

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    Mute Paul Dunne
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:48 AM

    50 years without paying tax not bad .

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    Mute Tap Solny
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:35 AM

    No soundbites from asinine Adams.

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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 8:28 AM

    But the usual asinine comment from you Pat.

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    Mute Friendo Friendo
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 10:32 AM

    “Paging MS Lagarde”
    “Ms. Lagarde! You must leave the tanning booth! Spain and Italy are defaulting!”

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    Mute Sean keeling
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 7:43 AM

    Interesting how the pensioners are limiting the future of the young

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    Mute Tír Eoghain Gael
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 11:58 AM

    Shamefully, the free state government is happy to turn the screw on the Greek people to save face and justify their own cowardice.

    And yet so many sheep in the 26 counties will fall in line behind them at election time like obedient little citizens.

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    Mute John Devoy
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 2:48 PM

    Our Free state has very little influence on the international scene. Unlike your Queen.

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    Mute Drew TheChinaman :)
    Favourite Drew TheChinaman :)
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:28 AM

    You voted exactly for this, despite near ubiquitous warnings from the rest of the world… Hard to have sympathy.

    Familiar with saying hell of your own making.

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    Mute billy hamson
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 9:37 AM

    Laziness pure and simple. Three months holidays, siestas, five hour working days,overpaid for year’s. Greece was basically a big jim royale. Bone idle.

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    Mute B-Egan
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    Jul 3rd 2015, 1:51 PM

    The Journal comment section has been taken over by bitter twisted machine like cyborgs who are programmed to never shut da f

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