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'Frontline staff are at breaking point': Healthcare workers on the challenges of working during the third wave

We asked healthcare workers to tell us what they’re experiencing. Here is what they said.

THE EMERGENCE OF the Covid-19 pandemic in 2020 was an unprecedented event. The last 10 months have meant huge pressure on the health system as case numbers have risen, dropped, and then risen again. 

That pressure only increased as the year came to an end, with case numbers rocketing. Now that we are in the third wave, with numbers exponentially growing, there is even more concern about how the health system is coping.

Yesterday, the Tánaiste Leo Varadkar said that he expects private hospitals to step up if the public system needs it.

More than 1,000 people – as of yesterday – were in hospital due to Covid-19, with 95 people in ICU. HSE boss Paul Reid has said: “Staff are literally fighting to save people’s lives. Sadly in some cases we may not always succeed.”

So what has it been like working in the healthcare system? We asked pharmacists, doctors, GPs and nurses, and here’s what they told us. 

Nurse: ‘Colleagues have burned out, and some haven’t recovered’

I returned to work on a Monday in March 2020 following maternity leave and by Saturday we had our first confirmed cases. Staff were all terrified – not knowing what was ahead. We were scrambling for short supplies of PPE. Staff and patients were getting infected and getting sicker.

We had staff shortages and a mad rush to redeploy and secure agency staff and student nurses who wanted to work as Healthcare Assistants. We needed any help we could get to help plug gaps. Entire wards of staff sick with Covid-19. A huge effort to orientate, train and try to support these people who were thrown into the madness with us. 

All hands on deck working around the clock 60 -80 hours a week trying to manage people who were sick, dying or dead. Trying to communicate with families who wanted to be there but couldn’t or shouldn’t. IPhones in plastic bags, us crying through fogged-up goggles as loved ones poured their hearts out to their dying mothers and fathers.

Worrying about colleagues in hospital sick, worrying about colleagues whose mental health was deteriorating in front of our eyes. Worrying about families and people with irrational expectations and complaints about plants and belongings that had been moved when we were trying to clean Covid off surfaces and out of corners.

Worrying about people whose insight and expectations were so deluded and unrealistic, and the enquiries and complaints and professional investigations they would throw at us in the months ahead when this abated.

Worrying about when we last ate or drank. Worrying about our kids at home in front of TVs with no homeschooling and exhausted, traumatised parents when we were home.

Worrying about whether we would have enough body bags, medications, oxygen.

Worrying about whether we should move the dead bodies of those infected with Covid to dress them in funeral outfits. Worrying about filling our lungs with Covid as we did that, and fears of bringing Covid into our cars and homes and infecting our loved ones. Loved ones afraid to touch or comfort us in case we were infected. 

Worrying about whether all of us in these trenches would make it out together… And now… the worry of having to do this all over again except this time we are exhausted, have less reserves and less physical and mental strength.

Colleagues have burned out and some haven’t recovered from the first wave. We now know fully what this entails and the worry is back. 

We absolutely dread having to go at this all over again but have no choice.

You just need to stay at home.

GP: ‘I have missed tears hiding behind a mask’

“I know you are so busy and I don’t mean to be a bother” is a phrase we have become used to in General Practice. It can be the opening line to a multitude of problems which in many cases should have been seen weeks if not months beforehand.

I have had to bite my tongue and not try betray my inner feeling of – this should have been seen months ago. Time matters for most cancers, and delayed diagnoses result in poorer outcomes, but many of my elderly patients are suffering in this new world and I sometimes get the feeling that they don’t really care.

One old man told me that he doesn’t want the vaccine and could he give his dose to his granddaughter who could not start her first job as an accountant in London.

Patients miss the chat in the waiting room, the bit of banter with the front of house staff and the consult itself. Seeing patients on a regular basis builds up a corporate memory of their health in my brain and no phone call or video call can replace face-to-face interactions.

We all have to wear masks but many of my elderly find this very difficult as it is alien to them, as is when I call them in looking like some lost hospital surgeon with my mask and gown on. I have missed tears hiding behind a mask; and having to give an elbow to an elderly lady whose husband has recently died seems cruel and not what I ever expected I would ever have to do. 

Covid has made general practice a somewhat different place but we provide good medical care to patients, as we did by going in over the New Year holiday to ring every patient affected by Covid-19.

I still love this job, and consider myself lucky to be doing what I do – and hope that we can get our old lives back.

GP: ‘The phones ring non-stop’

Normally our practice buzzes with a full waiting room, phones ringing and appointments being made to see one of our five senior GPs, GP registrar, nurse or phlebotomist. Now the waiting room has a few masked patients scattered here and there.

The phones ring non-stop and we have a new member of staff who checks every patient’s temperature as they arrive in the practice, and escorts them to a socially-distanced seat for their appointment.

The administrative and clinical staff work in a bubble divided between morning and evening. As I switch on my computer there are between 130 to over 200 patients to be contacted or seen between usually three doctors, a nurse and the phlebotomist. We have an overflow list of patients to be dealt with when time permits.

Most are dealt with by phone. Most of the patients are looking for non Covid advice unless there is a local outbreak when everyone gets edgy. Patients ring about infections, smears, vaccinations or Methadone review.

Mental health issues now take up a lot of time. Patients with existing brittle mental health need additional support or changes in medications. Those who are confined to their homes by virtue of age or illness vulnerabilities get distressed and need a helping hand.

As a group we are weary, anxious and this current outbreak has been a real gut punch. But we are still upright and proud to be useful to our patients.

NCDH: ‘It’s brought the healthcare staff and system almost to breaking point’

- Eoin Murphy, IMO NCHD Committee 

The pandemic has seen a seismic shift in how doctors live their lives, both at home and at work. Working hours have continued to regularly breach European Working Time Directives in multiple healthcare sites across the country with the looming threat of Covid only a call to the Emergency Department away.

The only thing more relentless than the virus itself has been the 24-hour shifts we are rostered to do week in week out.

The pressure of tackling waiting lists between Covid waves has all but brought the health system and its frontline workers to breaking point.

Virtual clinics have fundamentally altered the way general practice and outpatient clinics functions. However, the changes are not feasible in the long run. Face-to-face consultations are crucial for specialties like surgery and paediatric special needs.

It has been difficult hearing parents awaiting essential speech and occupational therapy talk about how their child’s dedicated therapists have been redeployed as contact tracers and at Covid testing centres. This flies in the face of health care workers trying to run paediatric services during the pandemic, and there is real anger out there.

It is disheartening to regularly see the advice provided by healthcare professionals ignored and the economic concerns of business lobbies influencing the government on their failed policy of pandemic management.

East Asian countries and New Zealand had just one serious wave in the spring and when they got the levels down near zero – as we did with the first lockdown – they kept them down with properly staffed public health teams coordinating test and trace programmes to identify and isolate outbreaks.

The government tells us we must be personally responsible for hygiene, our contact with others, and where we go. However, it is the government that has responsibility for preparing capacity for surges, implementing restrictions based on science, and allowing people stay at home by providing adequate financial supports. This has all been disregarded for the sake of a hasty reopening of non-essential retail and hospitality before Christmas and we are now paying the price.

Our public health system is vulnerable due to years of government underfunding and intransigence in the face of spirited protest from our colleagues in public health. All we can hope for now is that the HSE is up to the logistical task of administering the vaccine on a mass scale.

This will be the biggest public health undertaking since the eradication of TB in the 50s.

The government and the Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, owe it to healthcare workers, nursing home residents, and not least to the long-suffering and diligent general public, to get this bit done quickly and effectively at the very least.

Paediatric Doctor: ‘I was struck by a sudden urge to cry’

- Domhnall McGlacken-Byrne

On my way out of work earlier this week, bike helmet under my arm, a member of my hospital’s HR department cheerfully stopped me to ask if I’d like to receive my Covid-19 vaccine. Within a few minutes, I’d signed my consent form, received the jab, and sat down in an observation room with my complementary carton of apple juice.

As my mandatory 15-minute waiting period commenced, my mind wandered. Alarmingly, I was struck by a sudden urge to cry.

I thought back to last March, when Covid became all too real: the masks, the big yellow signs, the utter weirdness of it all. I will never forget those eerie days when our emergency departments suddenly emptied out – like the tide being sucked out on a beach, heralding the wave to come. Coming into work each day on deserted roads, none of us knew what to expect.

I thought about the funeral of my grandmother, Rose Byrne, and all the other funerals this past year in such strange and sad times: 10 mourners instead of 100; ‘elbow bumps’ instead of hugs; distance instead of intimacy. All the empty chairs at tables around Ireland.

Then I thought about the year to come: what will it bring? On the one hand, our current case numbers are gravely concerning like never before; the prospect of our hospitals and ICUs overflowing in the next month is grim, but real.

On the other hand, there is hope. The roll-out of these vaccines is one of the most important undertakings in the history of this state. We must help it succeed. By the actions of each of us – masks, staying home, doing the basics – lives can be saved.

I checked my information leaflet: while “a sore arm” and “mild fever” were listed among the occasional side effects of the shot, “suddenly getting all mushy” did not feature. In any case, my 15 minutes were up. I held it together and headed home.

GP: “The mental health implications have been significant”

I am a GP working in Dublin in a group practice. We have been through more changes this year in our practice than my 20 years to date combined.

We have adapted to a few things but probably the big two have been the use of video consultations and emailing prescriptions directly. These have been positive options but interestingly when numbers are low, people’s preference still seems to be face-to-face consultations (which is ours too! ).

The other major change of job description has been our role as Covid test referrers. I think of people at call centres with much more understanding and empathy now!

The challenges, like any small business to an extent, include keeping staff safe and keeping the income going. We are getting first-hand experience of the Covid impact both directly and indirectly and the mental health implications have been significant.

I do appreciate that I have gone to my workplace as usual during the pandemic. We also have the continuity of working with our great colleagues. This is not a position which many others have had, with job loss and job isolation very common.

Vaccination is now our next challenge and it will be an amazing journey to think we have been through an illness from its start to its immunisation. My wife is also working as a practice nurse and we both really appreciate all the goodwill and appreciation shown by our patients and the public in general.

Pharmacist: ‘We all have a newfound pride in what we do’

I’m frequently asked, when advocating for a zero COVID approach from our political leaders, what impact that will have on cancer patients.

When the community transmission of the virus is out of control: that is when treatment is in jeopardy. Hospital capacity being at full stretch has made it difficult to get patients in beds for chemotherapy. An overwhelmed hospital means clinics work at reduced capacity slowing the patient journey to treatment down.

The show goes on and we adapt and adjust accordingly. Between October and December 2019 there were 58 days that chemotherapy was made in UHW, where I work. We make weekend doses on a Friday. In that period of time we were above capacity (in the red) on 20 days, or 34% of the time. In the same period this year we were in the red on 38 days, or 65% of the time.

The challenge is, we are working in a more challenging environment, with the same number of staff when everyone is healthy. It is busier, the workload is heavier, the stress and strain on the service is greater, but we are still here. COVID hasn’t slowed us down.

The positive? I think we all have a newfound sense of pride in what we do, and appreciation for those we do it with. We couldn’t provide cancer treatment without our cleaners, care assistants, porters and kitchen staff. In the hospital, we truly are all in this together.

GP: ‘We are under serious pressure’

In Kildare, in General Practice, we are now battening down for our 4th Lockdown.

It is complicated and we are under serious pressure. People are being great. Patients are very understanding of the demand, colleagues in pharmacies and at Naas Hospital are being great.

In our practice, we have confidence in our safe work practices, and we are not easily given to panic! We will keep calm, and carry on.

Our patients are inspiring, especially those who are older, and those with significant mental health issues, and also people who care for older relatives, especially those with dementia.

It will get better, and we are very keen to start administering the vaccine ASAP.

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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:40 PM

    My wife had 2 miscarriages last year. Lost twins at 24 weeks. And another baby at 10 weeks. The pain still haunts us.

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    Mute The Dublinist
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:49 PM

    @Hurt Stoogie: That sounds awful, hope you and your wife are are okay after the trauma.

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    Mute gjpb
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:49 PM

    @Hurt Stoogie: sounds like you both had a very tough year

    Hope 2018 holds better luck for you

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    Mute Censorship is modern day book burning
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:53 PM

    @Hurt Stoogie: Sorry for both your loss.

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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:54 PM

    @gjpb: thank you.

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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:54 PM

    @Censorship is modern day book burning: thank you

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    Mute Jane
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:00 PM

    @Hurt Stoogie: very sorry to hear that. A miscarriage at any stage is extremely difficult but 24 weeks, I can’t even imagine.

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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:20 PM

    @Jane: thanks Jane. Yes, it was horrific.

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:37 PM

    @Hurt Stoogie: absolutely tragic, I’m very sorry to hear that. I can’t even imagine the grief and pain.

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Jan 28th 2018, 10:16 PM

    @Hurt Stoogie: Thats awful. Not easy to get through that. Give her plenty of hugs and take care of yourself too.

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    Mute Caroline Reid
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    Jan 28th 2018, 11:16 PM

    @Hurt Stoogie: so sorry for your losses. Life can be so cruel at times. Hope this year is a better year for you and you get your rainbow baby.

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    Mute Colette Kearns
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:50 PM

    Having a miscarriage is such a painful devastating thing to happen to anyone & they have my sincere sympathy! Be respectful & don’t use this platform for the abortion referendum!

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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:54 PM

    @Colette Kearns: well said. Thank you.

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    Mute Mártan Ó Conghaile
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:58 PM

    @Colette Kearns: If it’s only a baby when it’s ‘born’ then I guess a miscarriage is nothing at all then

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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:06 PM

    @Mártan Ó Conghaile: did you not read her comment ?

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    Mute Tommy Roche
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:21 PM

    @Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: He did. Just doesn’t give a toss. Spotted an opening to further the ‘agenda’ and he’s going for it.

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    Mute Ania_on_coffee
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    Jan 28th 2018, 10:02 PM

    @Mártan Ó Conghaile: Yes I don’t understand the logic either. Why is it that only miscarriage is considered as a tragedy (which it truly is a very painful tragedy to lose a child) but when a mother decides to abort, it is not considered as tragedy and a loss of a child.

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    Mute Breda Jennings
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    Jan 28th 2018, 11:18 PM

    @Ania_on_coffee: did you not read her comment? Take your agenda elsewhere

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    Mute Honeybee
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    Jan 29th 2018, 12:32 AM

    I think most people do not understand what a miscarriage really means, it is so much more , not holding a newborn in wonder, the cuddles , the smiles,the loss of a toddler, the first tooth, first day at school, the birthdays marked by date but not cake and candles, Christmases, an emptiness, never getting to hold baby in your arms but carrying baby in your heart forever, always wondering what might have been and who this baby would have become, sometimes you are given the babies footprints in ink, tiny prints from a tiny baby whose feet never touched the ground and maybe that is all a mother will have of a baby who to so many, never existed , to die before you are born , a baby who was but never was.

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:47 PM

    I lost a child at this stage , and my next pregnancy at 8 weeks. I still believe the 8th should be repealed

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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:50 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: one has nothing to do with the other. This wasn’t an article on abortion or the constitution. Conflating the pain of a miscarriage with the decision to abort, or not, is disrespectful to the pain that you suffered, and the pain that others go through – whether that is the pain of a miscarriage or the pain of making a decision on abortion.

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:56 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: If you lost a child which is the proper and humane way to describe a miscarriage, why would you consider a developing child in any other terms unless ‘foetus’ is a matter of convenience for a gender issue ?.

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:58 PM

    @Hurt Stoogie: please do not presume to educate me on what meant by my comment. I was replying to the comment made by @ censorship

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:05 PM

    @Gerald Kelleher: I never mentioned foetus or gender issues. Merely stated the fact that I lost a child at this exact stage and my next pregnancy too. And replied to the comment above

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    Mute Darren Farrell
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:16 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: I totally agree and I’m sorry for ur loss

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:22 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: Its not an interrogation Chris and certainly not disrespectful, just that our constitution is not meant to carry the weight of a decision where a miscarriage or pregnancies in severe medical difficulties becomes meshed with a gender issue that will try hard to strain language beyond breaking point. I have three healthy children and didn’t have the shared experience of the disappointment involved in a miscarriage but at the same time I do know the concern for a child once it becomes known that they are on their way and this concern lasts throughout their lives to some degree.

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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:25 PM

    @Gerald Kelleher: “disappointed ” is the wrong word to use there .. “heartbreak ” would be more appropriate I think .

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:26 PM

    @Gerald Kelleher: so your problem is the language used????

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:31 PM

    @Censorship is modern day book burning: so like, u are correct, u are not being smart. In my own words I did say I lost a child (two in fact) . I did not however say that I am ok with children’s lives being ended without consent. Maybe the subtleties evade you. But being in favour of repealing the 8th does not mean that a person is pro abortion

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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:33 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: language is powerful. Words are very powerful.

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:42 PM

    @Hurt Stoogie: I agree . For years I have heard the different lobbies throw emotive language around, and it seems that the language is designed to win an argument rather than to sympathise empathise or understand. I have been on the recieving end of well meaning language that has cut to the quick.

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:54 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: You were talking normally about losing a child to a miscarriage and that has been the way for as long as our society has existed. The referendum will diminish the relationship between mother and developing child in an act of self-deception if it becomes a gender issue alone for at the same time a mother is losing a child to a miscarriage, a woman is terminating a foetus out of choice. I really believe that some people want it both ways so society can divide mother/child and woman/ foetus when it suits and that is bad news for everyone. My view but that’s it.

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    Mute Censorship is modern day book burning
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:56 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: Great constructive dialogue for once.
    So if not for abortion why do you won’t the 8th repealed?
    Again not being smart just trying to understand.

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 28th 2018, 9:03 PM

    @Gerald Kelleher: I was stating factually , my experience. I did not mention my feelings , and you cannot nor should not assume them. ‘talking normally’ may be your interpretation but it certainly is not mine. I do not believe that a referendum or piece of legislation can ever diminish a relationship between any parent and child. Be that parent a mother or a Father.

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 28th 2018, 9:11 PM

    @Censorship is modern day book burning:I don’t ever forsee a situation where I could abort. But by the same token I don’t ever forsee me bringing back a white coffin from England. But for happenstance I have never had to go abroad for medical circumstances. If my medical difficulties had been slightly different during my pregnancies I may well have faced an even more traumatic journey than to the local maternity ward. We need to support our citizens and not make a life altering event even more horrific

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jan 28th 2018, 9:12 PM

    @Gerald Kelleher: you understand the difference between feelings and facts right? The referendum if passed will make absolutely no change to how people feel during a pregnancy. To say otherwise is absolute bolloxio

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 28th 2018, 9:23 PM

    @Dave O Keeffe: true. Legislation does not change feelings. Only what someone may have to go through

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Jan 28th 2018, 10:16 PM

    @Dave O Keeffe: You want a fact – there is no such thing as ‘removal of the foetus’, it is turning a developing child into a corpse unless you really want to deny the ‘foetus’ of the basic right all living creatures have when its life goes out . The self-deception using dehumanizing language that was meant to serve humane purposes ends up serving lifestyle choices and may suit the weak minded but when it comes to facts I have yet to see those who are mentally strong enough for the genuine facts when humane language is removed.

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    Mute Al Coholic
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    Jan 28th 2018, 10:43 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: his problem is the inconsistency in considering the unborn human when wanted and an embryo when it isn’t. Devastated at the loss of a child when miscarriaged but prepared to terminate a pregnancy when inconvenient.

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    Mute Al Coholic
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    Jan 28th 2018, 10:44 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: being in favour of repeal indicates you have no ethical objection to abortion, pro abortion

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Jan 28th 2018, 10:48 PM

    @Al Coholic: More or less and thanks.

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    Mute Dell
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    Jan 29th 2018, 12:48 AM

    @Chris Hennessy: aren’t you so lucky that you got to have these men tell you how you should or shouldn’t feel about events that happened to you? I’m sorry that you had to go through what you did.

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 29th 2018, 6:31 AM

    @Dell: indeed Dell, thank you .

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Jan 29th 2018, 8:20 AM

    @Dell: This is not a gender issue so it takes some stretch to create a gender division when people know full well of an awful contradictory situation where a mother/child can be pitted against woman/foetus . Many know that you cannot have it both ways .

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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:52 PM

    An article on the pain of miscarriage has nothing to do with the current debate on potential amendments to the constitution.

    The pain of a miscarriage should not be used to debate the 8th amendment in anyway.

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    Mute Censorship is modern day book burning
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:04 PM

    @Hurt Stoogie: With all due respect, mate I’m sorry for your lost but once something is in the public domain, people can comment where they see fit.
    I’m not being smart but if you don’t like it you don’t have to read/ engage… that’s much more constructive solution than censoring other people.
    Always preferable to control one’s self than try exert control over others.

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:07 PM

    @Hurt Stoogie: I disagree, the humane language which is in place to protect mothers and couples after a miscarriage so they could move on will be gone for ‘choice’ becomes mixed up with miscarriage in the dehumanizing language. How do you say you feel the pain for a lost child while at the same time society can knowingly allow for the willful ending of a child’s life ?.

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    Mute Darren Farrell
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:10 PM

    @Censorship is modern day book burning: how how dare u
    That mother went through nine months of torture to deliver that baby to find it’s dead but obviously u don’t understand that
    So f.u.c.k u and ur comment and don’t u ever ever dare try and treat a woman like that and hold on u couldn’t care probably because u don’t have a baby

    This is up for opinion hopefully people will feel the same anger as me

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    Mute Siobhán Ni Mhurchú
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:16 PM

    @Censorship is modern day book burning: he gave his opinion and views on the topic of the article and asked for it not to be turned into an abortion debate .Nothing wrong with his comment at all .

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:17 PM

    @Gerald Kelleher: because we can be both empathetic and humane. It isn’t black and white. Life is lived in shades of grey and is multi faceted

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    Mute Censorship is modern day book burning
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:17 PM

    @Darren Farrell: actually I am a father but more to my next point…what you even talking about??
    Now try be coherent with your response and make a salient point…if you even can

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    Mute Darren Farrell
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:21 PM

    @Censorship is modern day book burning: I dunno I’m just angry as I had a friend that lost a child and its horrible to see that sadness and that little white coffin

    I’m sorry for my comments and the
    Language i was annoyed plz accept my apologies

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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:27 PM

    @Darren Farrell: Fair enough mate, sorry for whatever your going through & hope yeh pull out of the tail spin soon.

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    Mute Darren Farrell
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:29 PM

    @Censorship is modern day book burning: cheers mate how old is u son/daughter

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:32 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: In respect to pregnancies where medical difficulties arise, there is humane language that eases the pain but that is not the same thing as ‘shades of grey’ for our constitution is there to protect the life of all our citizens including the life of a woman even at the expense of the developing life inside her. I don’t believe other countries have thought this through carefully enough and they may have the same discussion some day that we are having now.

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:48 PM

    @Gerald Kelleher: forgive me if it doesn’t feel much like a discussion. More like Catholic brow beating and condemnation

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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:50 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: you’re the only one that mentioned te church

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:57 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: Nothing to do with the Catholic Church and nothing to do with gender even though I have seen many attempts to force the referendum into that corner.

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    Mute Censorship is modern day book burning
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:57 PM

    @Darren Farrell: tis a little fella, jus went 6 in December bro

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    Mute Chris Hennessy
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    Jan 28th 2018, 9:27 PM

    @Gerald Kelleher: I don’t mean Catholic as in church . More like Catholic as in a cultural mindset

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    Mute FrustratedASDMum
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    Jan 28th 2018, 9:40 PM

    @Darren Farrell: I’m so sorry to hear that Darren.

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Jan 28th 2018, 10:26 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: You mean as a Christian which holds motherhood and the appearance of a baby as the most positive thing possible. There is no cultural mindset my dear, a balance between head and heart is more like it .

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    Mute Catherine Sims
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    Jan 28th 2018, 10:51 PM

    @Chris Hennessy: It has nothing to do with a catholic mindset. The right to life is a human rights issue. There are very many athetists like myself out there who don’t believe in abortion. The truth is the language changes to suit the situation. It’s a baby or child even at 8 weeks when it’s a miscarriage but it’s s foetus when people talk about abortion. The danger is the horrible abortion language will seep into the language of miscarriage. The reason there is deafening silence around miscarriage is that the pro choices don’t want the human language of child loss to muddy their agenda. Miscarriage is devastating at any stage of pregnancy and it doesn’t matter if it’s your first it 6th baby the pain is the same and you never forget. Especially around the babies due date.

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    Mute Ethna Quirke
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    Jan 29th 2018, 11:01 AM

    @Catherine Sims: I wrote this piece. These were my babies. Lest their be any confusion, I am pro choice. The silence around miscarriage has absolutely nothing to do with agenda. Your comment on the other hand is entirely agenda driven. This is not a piece about the 8th.

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    Mute Hurt Stoogie
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:44 PM

    @Are U Rosie too: it’s a baby when it’s born dead also. We had twins. They died in the womb. My wife still had to give birth. Twice. Keep your ignorance to yourself.

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    Mute FrustratedASDMum
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    Jan 28th 2018, 9:08 PM

    I lost two babies at ~10-12 weeks. People just expect you to “get on with it”. That’s my experience of Irish people. “Man up, and cop on”

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Jan 28th 2018, 10:30 PM

    @FrustratedASDMum: You are not wrong. Its grief plain and simple and anyone that tells you “get on with it” doesnt know what grief is. My cousin lost 6 babies at 10 to 12 weeks and it did affect her greatly and she has 2 kids now. She is very happy but she has never forgotten the babies she lost..

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    Mute Caroline Reid
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    Jan 28th 2018, 11:22 PM

    @FrustratedASDMum: so sorry for your loss

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    Mute Gemma McGrory
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    Jan 29th 2018, 12:33 AM

    @FrustratedASDMum: this infuriated me at the time the ‘it wasn’t meant to be’ – it was. My loss was very real. My baby had a heartbeat. The ‘well at least you know you can get pregnant, some people can’t’ – yes how fantastic pity I can hold on to it long enough so my baby can survive outside the womb, and the piece de la resistance ‘you can always try again – yes because this will replace the child I lost and magic me better again.

    I feel it’s a case that until you’ve experienced it you can’t understand it.

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    Mute Mártan Ó Conghaile
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:55 PM

    @Are U Rosie too: looks like it’s a baby whenever it suits

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    Mute Alt Right Crybaby
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:57 PM

    A very emotionally painful experience and I’m sorry this happened. Unfortunately in Ireland 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage, medically there is also an highly increased chance of subsequent miscarriage if there is not a significant gap between pregnancies. The body needs time to recover and heal after such a trauma.

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    Mute andrew
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:49 PM

    @Censorship is modern day book burning: ‘Jesus Christ that’s horrific, proper heroine…13 week old baby she had to deliver by herself then hold dead in her hand. Wonder what she’d say to people who say abortion at 12 weeks is okay because it ain’t a baby…’ She’d probably tell you not to use her pain as cheapo publcity for an increasingly desperate pro-life lobby.

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    Mute Ethna Quirke
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    Jan 29th 2018, 9:50 AM

    @andrew: that’s exactly what she’d say Andrew. She’d also say that the 8th amendment, which has nothing to do with my losses or my views on calling my growing babies my growing babies, needs to be repealed in it’s entirety. My losses in no way impact my views on that.

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    Mute Ethna Quirke
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    Jan 29th 2018, 9:31 AM

    I wrote this piece. It’s 5 years old now. It has absolutely nothing to do with the 8th amendment, which incidentally is an absorbent piece of legislation. This is a personal piece. These were my babies and I had no choices here.

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    Mute Jeanette Dunne
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    Jan 28th 2018, 9:09 PM

    It’s a baby as soon as you find out you’re pregnant. I lost a baby at 13 weeks and it drove me cracked people saying things like ‘it’s not a baby yet”
    I went through hell for the first couple of months I was so unbelievably sick then to lose the baby after 13 weeks and that nearly killed me too. But it was a life I was growing and a life I had lost, I nearly lost my own life because I didn’t understand what can happen in a miscarriage. Believe me It was a baby to me. I also have a daughter with special needs, two very traumatic pregnancy’s, don’t think I could put myself through it again. I am so thankful for my little girl. I never talk about my miscarriage because people just don’t understand how hard it is to go through unless you have experienced it yourself.

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    Mute Henry Matthews
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    Jan 28th 2018, 9:29 PM

    Why are comments being removed?

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    Mute Alt Right Crybaby
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    Jan 28th 2018, 10:06 PM

    @Henry Matthews: Censorship is modern book burning was trolling, usually threads where he trolls get deleted, he’s had at least 40 different accounts banned since November.

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    Mute Clare Love
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    Jan 28th 2018, 11:05 PM

    @Alt Right Crybaby: so my comment telling him off for trolling was also deleted!!

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    Mute Tom Doyle
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    Jan 29th 2018, 7:42 AM

    @Alt Right Crybaby:he’s a right dose.

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    Mute Alt Right Crybaby
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    Jan 29th 2018, 7:44 AM

    @Tom Doyle: Very infantile.

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    Mute Censorship is modern day book burning
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:48 PM

    @Are U Rosie too: Tell her that it wasn’t her baby not me…

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    Mute Darren Farrell
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:06 PM

    The poor women hopefully god up there will take care of the baby

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    Mute Deasun O'Siodhachain
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    Jan 29th 2018, 8:42 AM

    Its an awful thing for anybody to go through.

    My wife had a miscarriage 3 months ago. It was a little baby boy who died at 17 weeks. There was no bleeding or any indication that anything was wrong. We went for the 20 week scan for a checkup only to be told that there was no longer a heartbeat. We were both devastated.
    It’s extremely tough for any woman to go through this, but it’s also extremely tough for the man (sometimes we forget this). We’re still only learning to live with the loss, but we’ll never get over it.
    My thoughts and prayers are with anybody who has experienced this.

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    Mute Emma Murphy
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    Jan 29th 2018, 10:15 AM

    “Holding the tiny body in the palm of my hands, counting perfectly formed fingers, looking into eyes that would never see, my heart broke into a million pieces” – really powerful piece that captures both the sadness of miscarriage and the humanity of the unborn child.

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    Mute Are U Rosie too
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:40 PM

    @Censorship is modern day book burning: it’s a baby when it’s born.Try to keep up,pet.

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    Mute Gemma McGrory
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    Jan 29th 2018, 12:27 AM

    Please stop making this about abortion. Having experienced the devastating grief that miscarriage brings and ha going felt exactly like the author of this article it’s deeply insensitive and insulting. Miscarriage is not a get out of jail free card it is utterly devastating and it isn’t even I the same stratosphere as termination. It’s like comparing an apple to an egg. They’re not the same. Stop. There is such a stigma attached to miscarriage in this country and comparisons like this do nothing to alleviate it. Can we not have a conversation about pregnancy and women’s health without turning it in to a debate on the 8th amendment.

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    Mute Censorship is modern day book burning
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:56 PM

    @andrew: Cmere & I tell you something mate, I said “I wonder” , whereas you put words in her mouth…why don’t you keep your words out of other people’s mouth & FYI I & everyone else have a right to comment on ANYTHING once it’s in the public domain!

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    Mute Ron North
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:53 PM

    @Censorship is modern day book burning: Stay classy.

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    Mute Clare Love
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:31 PM

    @Censorship is modern day book burning: very cheap low nasty trolling shot. But judging by your comments on other forums , it’s to be expected of you. Try setting aside the whole 8th thing for 5 minutes and show some genuine sympathy and support to a couple who are suffering.
    Same goes to @geraldkelleher

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    Mute Censorship is modern day book burning
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:54 PM

    @Clare Love: Yesterday’s a bomb went off in Kabul killing over a hundred people, according to your logic I shouldn’t comment on that. 14 people have been murdered in the latest Dublin feud, according to your logic I shouldn’t comment on that, basically according to your logic People shouldn’t comment on anything that has a negative impact on people.
    Listen, I’m not living like a monk & Taking a vow of silence just because you read comments you don’t like

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    Mute Jim Kenny
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    Jan 29th 2018, 12:04 AM

    So sad even difficult to read, but very good article

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    Mute Chris Martin
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:47 PM

    @Are U Rosie too: “Its a baby when its born”..so depending on where its located dictates its name and human rights status.

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    Mute Are U Rosie too
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:53 PM

    @Censorship is modern day book burning: if you want to have an emotional debate,then you’ll win hands down.If you want to have a medical one,then you’ll get your arse whipped.

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    Mute Censorship is modern day book burning
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    Jan 28th 2018, 9:00 PM

    @andrew: I’d say a censoring totalitarian like yourself would love nothing more than than to throw me into a concentration camp/Gulag…

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    Mute andrew
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:47 PM

    @Clare Love: Exactly. There’s always a gutter nearby for you to throw yourself into

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:24 PM

    @Henry Matthews: She has been here in few guises. Rosie is not PC and earlier as Shanti. She is a nasty piece of work..

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    Mute Small Town Boi
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    Jan 29th 2018, 4:43 PM

    @Sinead Hanley: You’ve made an absolute fool of yourself before with that ridiculous claim of yours.Now, you’re doing it again.Grow up and stop trying to be liked on here.It’s pathetic..Shanti doesn’t hardly comment on here anymore.Maybe it’s to do with people making false allegations against them.Or maybe it’s to do with some people making up stories..

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    Mute Are U Rosie too
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    Jan 28th 2018, 7:54 PM

    @Hurt Stoogie: that’s exactly what i said.

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    Mute Henry Matthews
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    Jan 28th 2018, 9:06 PM

    @Sinead Hanley: i know it’s previous …it also went as fabulous…I think it is also daisy; possibly veronica….and allowed to continue as long as the journal gets enough clicks out of it …just like this article is about miscarriage …which my wife and I have and are going through..is here so people can change it into a debate about how abortion is the answer to all our wrongs….shameful and cheap …

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    Mute Ethna Quirke
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    Jan 29th 2018, 9:34 AM

    *****Abhorrent

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    Mute Kiera
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    Jan 29th 2018, 12:55 PM

    @Ethna Quirke: Sorry for your losses Ethna. I have lost 5 pregnancies also. 3 miscarriages at 6 weeks, 7 weeks and 9 weeks and a late miscarriage at just under 19 weeks where I had to deliver our baby girl. The last pregnancy was ectopic so I understand hugely the pain and loss that you have felt too. It is terrible that you were treated terribly. I had similar experiences too. I wonder if we were in the same hospital.
    So glad you had your rainbow baby. Look after yourself and your family.

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    Mute Henry Matthews
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    Jan 28th 2018, 8:05 PM

    @Are U Rosie too: do you have any semblance of humanity in you? …go troll somewhere else you idiot..

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    Mute Nick Caffrey
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    Jan 29th 2018, 3:02 PM

    The pigs who hijacked Hurt Stoogie’s post, whatever side of the debate they stand on, really are the utter dregs of the earth.

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