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THE FIRST MAJOR stop on the road to the White House takes place for Democratic hopefuls tonight – and Hillary Clinton will be hoping she can withstand a barrage of criticism.
The clear front-runner in the race to succeed Barack Obama, Clinton (who is polling 42% of support among Democrats) must first secure her party’s nomination for next November’s election.
That race kicks off in earnest tonight in The Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas, as CNN hosts the first debate of the Democratic primary season.
While the Republican debates have become big ratings grabbers for networks, the Democratic debate is expected to be more substantive, if much less exciting.
The debate will feature five candidates, barring a late entry from Vice President Joe Biden, with four hoping to break into the American mainstream consciousness while on a stage next to a Clinton.
They are:
Bernie Sanders – Senator, Vermont
He’s polling at 25% nationally and had a stellar summer, breaking his way into the race after being seen as too far to the left previously. But does he have the staying power?
The democratic socialist is fundraising well among small donors, but lacks the resources of a Clinton or Biden and that will hurt him over the Christmas and January periods.
However, a good performance tonight will see him continue dragging the Democrats to the left. He has avoided criticising Clinton, preferring to stick to the issues.
He will be loathe to get personal with the former First Lady, but will definitely outline where he and Clinton are different.
Will that be enough for American voters?
Martin O’Malley – former Governor of Maryland
O’Malley has never hidden his ambition to climb the ladder of US politics, but that doesn’t mean he’s an empty shirt.
He is staunchly liberal on gay rights, guns and inequality, but will appeal to moderates because of his zero-tolerance stance on policing while mayor of Baltimore.
He will emphasise his life-long party membership, a contrast to Sanders, and try to slot himself to Clinton’s left.
Expect him to come out all guns blazing – at just 1% in national polls, he needs a big performance to still be in with a chance when the first votes are cast in February.
Lincoln Chafee – former Governor of Rhode Island
Chafee, like O’Malley, has lost a lot of attention to Sanders.
Initially expected to be a disruptor in the race, he has fallen into a no-man’s land over the summer.
A ferocious debater, Chafee will attack Clinton on foreign policy and could be a wild card.
Polling below 1%, a poor performance could end his race.
Jim Webb – former Senator, Virginia
A decorated soldier and former Secretary of the Navy and assistant Defence Secretary, Webb will go after everyone in the debate on foreign and military policy.
Webb has been lost in the shuffle in a very small field, which doesn’t bode well.
Both he and Chafee will take hope from the example of Carly Fiorina in the Republican debates, who proved that a couple of good nights can lift a campaign.
Clinton
For Hillary Clinton, the challenge tonight is appearing presidential, but not evasive, engaged, but not condescending. It will be a tough rope to walk.
While many see the deficiencies in both parties making this a procession to a coronation, Clinton will know from 2008 how quickly a campaign can go south.
The debate kicks off at 1.30am Irish time.
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You’ll have nothing but under six year olds running around in the waiting rooms, while the real sick suffer at home. Give it to the ones that have a real medical problem. Go back to the drawing board on this one.
The problem is how does one define a real medical problem: it would create bigger bureaucracy. Ireland needs to adopt the European model of universal healthcare for all.
I dont know y they are phasing it in in such an odd way, the NHS afaik just came into operation in 1 burst. Docs always oppose universal healthcare
Ray why should children be discriminated, if my child gets sick today , I have to have €60 on me for midoc.. But I don’t have it so my child’s welfare is at risk , he’s being punished cos I don’t earn enough & doctors are selfish & greedy
Give it to NOBODY. Let everyone who goes to the doctor pay €20 for the service. As an ordinary PAYE worker I went to the doctor recently and I watched – nobody who left while I was there paid for the doctor except myself. Then I went to get my prescription for another 40 euro. 100 quid down and via taxation paid for a bunch of scroungers sitting in the waiting room also. Absolutely sick of it, excuse the pun.
So is it fair that when I bring my three year old to the doctor it ends up costing over €100 after buying medication. We queue behind those who have it free despite the fact that we pay our taxes. So why not allow our children to get it free. Those who don’t work get everything for free whereas those who work get nothing for free !!
Thats horse shit Ray!! If we don’t look after 0-6 year olds, we won’t have any queue’s in hospitals 60 years later!
That’s fair enough captain.. if you can’t afford to €60 for a doc for your child then… Yes maybe you need the free cover but why give it to the healthy rich ones & have “the mummy’s bring there little love ones in ten times a month with a runny nose… That doesn’t make sense… No so there no discrimination on your case, certainly wasn’t the aim.
Ray.. why give it to welfare lifers who never pay tax? Doctors are forced to supplement medical card patients with private ones. As said above a single 20e payment from everyone would solve it
Medical Cards could be given to everyone. There’s universal healthcare ready.
Maybe Ray a standard €10 charge , I wouldn’t complain about that , & it would stamp out abuse of the system, but a €10 charge for all including medical card holders
People on welfare pay indirect tax.
Everyone should have to pay a basic fee for a doctors visit. Maybe €10. Every one can afford that. Anyone that claims they can’t should priorities their fiances
I don’t mind paying for when myself and the kids need to go to the GP..It does boil my blood to see people who contribute nothing to society get everything handed to them.. However you get nothing for nothing in this Country.. So if the Government are paying a GP €50 for your child to see them, no doubt thay will take multiples of that out of your wages in tax…
David, you’re mistaken with regard to the payments for medical cards and this proposed fee for under 6′s. GPs only get around €10-13, if I’m not mistaken, for each patient on medical card and the same for the proposed free under 6′s. Private patients would pay €50-60 however.
so David, you want to force people with a disability who are unable to work to “contribute” what they cannot to society?
David this scheme is for under 6 , not the medical card . Now we shouldn’t put under 6 in different social classes & treat them that way but that’s exactly what the GPs are doing . If a child got hit by a car & an Irish doctor was walking by , I’d say you would have to throw him 50 euro before he moves to help , they’re as bad as bankers !!
In all fairness ITS Student… Although he didn’t specify, I think David was referring to people who choose not to work, rather than the disabled. You’re putting words in his mouth. David is spot on with his comment on people getting everything handed to them. There are people out there working cash in hand and receiving social welfare, I’ve met them. There are also people who refuse to work, refuse to contribute, and get a house and cash handed to them! I’m a sole trader, if I’m out of work, I’m done, I get nothing. And plenty of disabled people work to anyway! Get off the stage ITS!
Doctors are always doing unpaid work off duty. There is no way any doctor would walk past an injured person and not help. I’ve seen and experienced doctors offering free medical treatment in emergency situations first hand. So I’d say you’re wrong there. It’s unfair to demonise a profession like that.
4% of the 400,000 unemployed have not worked (includes those with health issues, etc). So let’s be honest, that’s exactly who David and yourself are referring to.
People lie. People lie to the social welfare and they lie again in market research. Best not to take the figures as gospel. No one ever questions the research agencies who compile this stuff. You see, not everyone who says they are disabled, are actually disabled. For instance, people who make bogus insurance claims are often unable to work… plus, there’s are cases of other welfare payments being exploited such as rent allowance and single mother allowances, grant money… and as I said previously, people working cash in hand… not contributing…
I know Rory, those little under 6 are always lying.. Little feckers!! They should pay their own way in this country & fork up 50 . Ya know it’s not St Vincent de Paul the GPs are running here .
Ha! Good one Captain! You’re right, they do lie too! In all seriousness though, I think free medical care for all would be great. I have no issue with the proposed under 6′s scheme, if it’s done correctly, and doesn’t result in medical practices closing down. That would result with entire areas having no medical care provider. To do this properly the Gov needs to have big money. Right now all they are doing is playing politics with people’s health. Unfeasible promises…
Rory you have seen ” experienced doctors offering FREE medical attention in an emergency situation”. Well what a bloody hero !!!
It was in response to Captains comment that an Irish doctor would walk past an injured child without helping unless someone threw him a €50. I was merely pointing out instances where I had seen doctors contradict his statement.
Rory:
The idea there is this magical wasteful spending that can be saved is not true. The minister has to sign off on checks being paid every day on her desk. Given the level of accounting controls in place, there is no magical money left to make savings from. You can only go so far with that argument.
However, the level of checks on the self-employed appear quite small by European standards. Perhaps this could be looked at…
The level of checks should be increased on everyone ITS Student. Including the self-employed, which includes me. Absolutely!
To say that there is no way of making savings within the current government would be something I would disagree with.
And with regard to the level of accounting controls, I’m afraid they are poor. TDs and Councillors still have unvouched expenses. You should try and get your hands on a list of declared Gov expenses. Once you read it, you’ll see that savings can be made. I’m not saying it’s enough to fix the health system. But savings can be made.
Rory , to clarify. GPs are NOT payed per visit for medical card holders. Paid an annual fee not matter how many times that child chooses to visit. If govt give ‘ free’ GP care to all in the morning at current pay rates no GP in the country would be solvent.
Thanks for clarifying that Helen. Found a figure from 2009 on Irishpatients.ie. It said it cost an average of €302 per medical card per year. Not sure how accurate it is though.
Jobs dont grow on trees
There used to be free clinics for preschoolers and school nurses who did vaccinations and annual health checks on all kids, and could call in doctors for kids in primary and secondary education. What happened to that more sensible scheme?
Drs started refusing to make house calls because it’s more profitable for patients to come to them.
McConville should remember that the taxpayers are funding this initiative not the medicos. If the medicos wish to give up Practice then so be it. Others medicos may want to make a living. If he believes that Practices are going to leave the City areas in any event , whats his gripe?
By the way , he should realise , being from Cavan , that there is life outside of Dublin and that this is a good scheme for a great number of his customers who find it hard to meet very high GP fees.
Drew what are you on about?
She asked a question… Why aren’t Drs called into schools anymore. Drs are no longer leaving their surgery to do house calls to schools, homes etc.
Drs do house calls to housebound patients, not able bodied ones who should go to the surgery. They also charge more money for home visits.
The plan would not be in the best interests of their pockets I’d say !!!
Would you prefer to take your sick child to a surgery that is under-resourced because its free? I wouldn’t.
Why do l have to pay for my childrens health, when other people don’t , this is one bunched up country.
Because it’s a socialist country not a communist one.
Exactly Richard it’s wrong , they’re is no private care in this country for children and rightly so , there shouldn’t be any charge for kids either .. Some parents can’t afford it so the child’s welfare is at risk . Doctors are just plain greedy looking for their 50 euros
Drew that makes absolutely no sense.. Look up Wikipedia to get the exact meanings
I would assume because you love your children, but besides that just because someone else is getting something for nothing it doesn’t mean it’s good for them or they don’t need it.
I always had to pay here and no I didn’t like it as with the NHS nobody paid to go to the doctor, but the warning is the waiting rooms were full of time wasters, people with colds or thought they had some horrable disease and just wanted anti-biotics even though they had no idea what they do.
The thought that these people would have easy access and would drag their kids though the mill for the attention and because it was free actually scares me.
On the other hand, loads of kids would benefit greatly from access to a service they couldn’t otherwise avail from due to lack of money in the family.
Medical cards are great for sure for children but you still need to get to the doctor in the first case for the initial diagnosis which in some cases would be too late as the illness could have become fatal.
Personally I would be happy to pay (and have) if I thought my children needed it and wouldn’t think for a moment that someone who couldn’t afforded it shouldn’t get it for free.
After all, it is about the children and they’ve enough dept coming their way as it is
Thanks but I’m well versed in the concept of both… And Wikipedia is not a source, I could edit that page to make it about anything I wished. I could define socialism as an animal husbandry practice if I so wanted…
People’s health is being used as a political football in this feud.
I think the HSE is not fit for purpose and at this stage is a top heavy asset consuming beast.
Somebody needs to say “stop” and cut the losses.
The HSE as a model and structure needs to be scrapped and a new model designed from the bottom up and including GP’s .
Consultation needs to start at a grassroots level to provide a working model .
The best and brightest of our Drs have already left or are planning to leave.
Without means testing then they are essentially giving money away which could be redirected to underfunded areas of the health system
means testing is too bureaucratic and costly to administer.
The only income.under sixes have is social welfare’s child benefit.
Not all parents even middle income wage can afford a trip to the doctors for their children. It’s hard to imagine being a parent with a sick child and not been able to go to the doctors. Sad so sad.
Dare I suggest that it’s supply and demand at play and that south Dublin had more GPs because the residents of South Dublin place their health higher on their list of priorities.
If you want to open up a debate on equality how many north Dublin residents have their health care provided for them via medical cards vs. South Dublin residents who pay for their own?
Supply and demand, or market forces are all about profit. Surely people’s health should be placed above such things.
Also the reason north side dubliners get medical cards is generally because they can’t afford the health care. How is that inequality? As you are alluding to.
There should be medical cards for everyone. There’s universal healthcare ready to be introduced.
After reading the article I failed to see how it wouldn’t be in the best interest of the public.
The EU average for a GP visit is €35 , why is it €50 to €60 here in Ireland?? Also the real suffering in all of this is the working class who are not entitled to a medical card . I knew FG would never push this thru , it seemed to good to be true !!
Please just an answer to that question from a GP ??
Because the 50-60 euro in Ireland is used to subsidise the insufficient income from the medical card patients.
If there was the possibility of making more money in Ireland than in Europe – Ireland would be full of European doctors. I’m not aware of tens, let alone hundreds of doctors from Germany, the Netherlands or the UK (all countries with excellent English) coming here to work.
Meanwhile, Irish GPs travel to the UK or Australia, like their working conditions, and like the fact that they don’t get called greedy money grabbers for asking to get paid to do a complex job, with major responsibilities.
Medical cards for all.
Children with cancer have their medical cards taken off them but Enda Kenny and Co still give Children’s Allowance to their rich CEO’s friends and their friends earning hundreds of thousands of euro per year.
Now Fine Gael and Labour want to reward their millionaire rich friends even more by giving them free medical care for their rich children while ordinary sick people lie on hospital trollies !!!
Labour and Fine Gael —– NEVER AGAIN !!!
Should be means tested
Too bureaucratic and costly then.
Doctors differ,
Patients die…..
The NAGP really sunk to a new low with this .. Using the trolleys as an excuse.. Truth is they are happy to take 50 euro from struggling parents hands … If I get sick , I never go to doctors cos I can’t afford it .. I usually let the immune system kill it off but when your child gets sick , he needs a doc , sometimes we can’t afford it for them .
By your logic, children have no immune systems. Incorrect. 86% of children’s doctors visits are resolved by better educated parents knowing the difference between a cold and the abuse of a medical card.
Pani , so if my child’s temperature rockets , & neurofen doesn’t work .. I just let him ride the storm ?? Be nice explaining that to a judge you thick !!
Ireland has only 2.7 doctors per 1000 people while the EU average is 3.4 doctors and Germany has 4 doctors per 1000 people (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11271216/UK-has-fewer-doctors-than-almost-every-EU-country.html).
I thing the healthcare problems of Ireland have something to do with these numbers.
In January alone I had both kids at the doctor at €50 a pop plus medication. January, the worst month of the year for most financially, but my kids come first and I had to squeeze the cash from somewhere. I work and pay my taxes. The mother down the road can bring all four of her kids to the doctor for free whenever she bloody well likes because she hasn’t bothered to work since her eldest was born.
Please, tell me people can see the injustice here. I wouldn’t mind paying a nominal fee of €20 per child, if everyone, including SW recipients, had to pay it. But Jesus, €50 to confirm a throat infection plus prescribe antibiotics, a total of 5 minutes of a doctor’s time, is absolutely scandalous!
In this govts first budget in 2011 (yes 2011) they introduced free gp care for those with long term illnesses. Not a promise but an actual budget measure. It never came to pass. Can’t wait til the media pick up on that. Good luck with the under 6 thing, given that was a budget measure from only a year ago.
It is good to know that the Leo Varaker has some extra money to extend
medical cards to extra people. But to give that extra to people who can afford their own health care rather than to parents of children with chronic or even terminally health problems is not the way to spend that money. Since its inception, the Irish College of GPs has had as its policy free GP. Care for all. Since the recession rural GPs in Ireland have seen their resources cut by 43% under FEMPI. People may have seen a couple with a a small boy at the gates of Leinster House this week begging for a medical card for their son. Spend that money for the needy, not the vociferous.
How dare us expect under sixes to get a health care, not for free as it would be paid for at a cheaper price by the tax payer. Great way of getting children looked after in the early stages, yet the same people who pledged to look after sick people want a pound of flesh instead. Shame on the profession who agree to this and congrats to those who do right and reject it.
Just on the question of GP fees, a small point for your attention. The average GP fee is about 50 euros. The average patient attends their GP four times a year, therefore two hundred per year. The “free” GP care for all scheme as proposed by Dr James Reilly has been costed at sixteen hundred euros per person per annum. Be very careful what you wish for.
We can argue all day about who should get what etc but the simple point is children under 6 regardless of class background should be treated equally hence they should get free cover .. But GPs real agenda here is to keep charging parents €50 per child , they are using this story to justify their actions.. Plain & simple!!
Its not about the money. It’s about starting up something without planning it properly, back up etc. You might as well say free electricity to everyone and free Gas to everyone. GP surgeries just like every other business should be properly equipped to deal with certain amount of patients/clients otherwise it is just gambling and I for one wouldn’t want someone to gamble with my health.
It’s a sickening feeling (no pun intended) to have a sick child at home and you have to decide between food and bringing them to the doctors. I’m sure some parents will abuse it but the majority won’t. See that cough in your 2 yr old turning into a nasty chest infection, or that temperature reaching dangerous levels with an empty bank account and tell me you don’t agree with free doctors for under 6′s
Drew ur point is?
That if the GPs which this organization represents are so concerned with an inequality and availability of GP care in north vs. South Dublin. They should set up some more clinics in North Dublin and lower their prices.
Another bit of divide and conquer from our government. Just look at the comments to see the truth. Fix the trolly and medical card problems first, instead of tinkering at the edges.
CIE run a scheme for their staff in which they pay 5€ a week direct from their wages and then receive free doctor visits with an assigned doctor in their area. Something along these lines would be very beneficial. Obviously this would end up being subsidised but I still think it could be a workable system
Nice to see it’s the same colour as the palestinian flag…
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