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A HEALTH COMMITTEE has been told that there is a low uptake in the number of healthcare professionals who opt to take the flu vaccine, and rewards could be used to encourage the uptake.
During a discussion on the subject of vaccine uptake in Ireland, the committee heard that there are a number of reasons contributing to a general mistrust of vaccines.
In her opening statement, Dr Colette Bonar, Deputy Chief Medical Officer at the Health Protection Unit said that ”all vaccines go under review to make sure that they are safe”.
Although the dramatic drop in HPV vaccine uptake has been the topic of some debate in Ireland, with levels dropping to 50% last year, the committee also heard about past issues with the MMR vaccine and problems with the flu vaccine uptake among healthcare professionals.
Dr Kevin Kelleher, the Assistant National Director of Public and Child Health for the HSE said that low rates of flu vaccine uptake is a problem internationally.
A particular problem, which the committee were asked about, is the low rate of uptake on the vaccine among Ireland’s healthcare workers.
Figures provided by the Health Protection Surveillance Centre have suggested that only one in four healthcare staff in Ireland have been vaccinated against the flu.
Kelleher mentioned that in North America, it’s mandatory for doctors and nurses to get vaccinated against the flu, for patients’ health and safety.
“There’s a particular problem with nurses uptake with the vaccine, and it could be to do with leadership,” he said.
“Incentives for the institution or individual does seem to work to increase those rates.”
“For example, giving them chocolates, which is advised in medical literature, or iPads [an incentive presumably for hospitals, rather than individuals].”
The General Secretary of the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation reacted angrily to his comments, which he said were ”a perfect example of why Irish nurses and midwives walked away from the Irish health sector”.
Doran told Today with Sean O’Rourke that that kind of comment was ‘absolutely objectionable’ and Kelleher should respect nurses’ opinions and not treat them like children.
Vaccine effect
During the committee, frequent reference was made to Dr Karina Butler’s opening statement. She is the chairperson with the Royal College of Physicians of Ireland, and a practicing paediatrician.
“Vaccines work, vaccines save lives. You’ve heard the numbers and they’re dramatic,” she said, but stressed that the individual stories behind the numbers were even stronger.
“In the 1940s, my uncle died of diphtheria when he was 4 years old. Shortly after, my grandfather died of oropharyngeal cancer, which is preventable now most likely.
She said that during a polio epidemic in the 60s, she remembers being in a ward Capa hospital full of children in wheelchairs.
“In the 1960s, people were getting measles and mumps but we were the lucky ones cause we were covered. Others now have lung problems and have lost their sight.”
Now, when I see my two-year-old grandchild, because of all these vaccines I don’t have to worry about him getting those diseases anymore.
This week I left the bedside of a two-year-old who is fighting for his life against meningitis. This is the real impact of vaccinations.
She said that although there is no medicine or therapy that is 100% safe for every person, the benefits of vaccines greatly outweigh the risks.
“We would not give vaccines if we did not truly believe they were safe.”
HPV
When questioning the experts before the health committee today, Fianna Fáil’s Billy Kelleher said that he had been told ‘girls decide as they’re waiting to get vaccinated in school that as a group, they’re not going ahead with it’.
Dr Brenda Corcoran, Consultant in Public Medical Care at the National Immunisation Office said that the fact that doctors and experts don’t get to meet with parents and explain the vaccine to them, could be contributing to the misinformation and mistrust.
Dr Joan Gilvarry, Director of Human Products at the Irish Medicines Board said that 72 million people had been vaccinated against HPV worldwide, so there was a vast amount of knowledge on the vaccine.
She explained why two countries, Denmark and Japan, reported problems with the vaccine.
She said that symptoms of chronic pain, and chronic fatigue were reported in Denmark, so the EU’s health commission conducted a Europe-wide review. The committee had representation from all European states, and they spoke to health and safety experts and patient groups.
They made a legally binding decision that there was no causal relationship with this, and Denmark continues to use it now, she said.
In Japan, the HPV vaccine was taken out of programme but Gilvarry stressed that this was not in agreement with their regulatory authority.
The Irish Cancer Society estimates that the dramatic drop off on the HPV vaccine uptake in Ireland for the 2015/2016 academic year will result in the death of at least 40 girls due to cervical cancer, and that a further 1,000 girls will have to undergo invasive therapy to prevent the pre-cancer form of HPV.
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Chocolates. …Maybe a proper wage would help..
@Bobby Neary: I work in a major Dublin hospital, staff already get a voucher for tea and a scone in the staff canteen when we get the flu shot, the take up rate is still embarrassing low
@john barnes: and why is that?
@john barnes: what hospital…?
@Bobby Neary: why not just tell them to do the right thing for their patients?
@cholly appleseed: Can’t pretend to be sick with the flu if you have gotten the vaccine.
@David Murphey: could also say that to business customers tds for their electorate dr dentists vets to lower prices to benefit patients. None of the above would take a dairy milk in exchange for doing whats right
@Maurice Frazer: AMNCH, I’m not medical staff so can’t speak to why so many don’t take up the vaccine
@Bobby Neary: “let them eat cake”
Will nobody think of the diabetics?
In fairness you would have to wonder about the reasons behind nursing staff not getting vaccines rather than offering childish incentives like chocolate
@ChuckE: It’s simple really ChuckE, you can’t use up your sick days by just saying you have the flu if there is a record of them getting the vaccine.
@ChuckE: they also smoke a lot. Does that mean they know something about smoking being good for you?
@Larry Doyle: you can still get the flu. It just reduces the risk
@George O Neill: an American set if figures based on drugs that would never pass Irish or most European standards. Completely irrelevant to an Irish case study
@ChuckE: they clearly do not care about the welfare of their patients.
The health system I work for in the U.S. requires you to get the flu vaccine or you could lose your job. They do not want health care professionals to spread the flu to immunocompromised patients.
@Kerri Donahue Meenagh: rational, sensible and preventative.
We have duties to others as well as to ourselves.
@Kerri Donahue Meenagh: But?
http://www.livingwhole.org/what-you-need-to-know-about-mercury-in-vaccines/
Ethylmercury is derived from the metabolism of thimerosal, which is the most widely used form of organic mercury and is the type contained in vaccines.
Thimerosal has been removed from many vaccines (after damaging a ton of people) … but not all. It is still in the flu shot and is found in toxic “trace amounts” in other vaccines.
Next stick it in the chocolates?
@Alois Irlmaier: This is not proper science. The flu shot saves lives. What you are sharing is scaremongering and propoganda. It is not based on science.
The benefits of vaccines are often under estimated, especially if 95% rates can be achieved for herd immunity purposes.
The remote prospects of adverse side effects are often over greatly over estimated.
From a cost/benefit perspective vaccination is worth it and the risks are minimal to non-existent.
@Tony Daly: 100% agree. The anti vaccers have been proven time and time again to deliberately peddle false information
@Tony Daly: tell that to the parents of the children who developed life-limiting conditions after vaccination.
@John Strahan: tell that to people who die, needlessly and avoidably, because of irrational opposition to vaccination.
@John Strahan: Why don’t you tell it to all the parents of the children who have died from polio and have life limiting conditions and all those that have died ftom TB. In that massive outbreak a couple of years ago…………… OH YEA! That’s right you can’t. Becausr there wasn’t an outbreak because nearly everyone is vaccinated.
Anti vaxxer Logic; “I never had any of my children vaccinated, the one that lived to adulthood seems to be doing fine”
@Tony Daly: I can guarantee you if it was your child or grandchild that was left with a lifelong disability from vaccine injury, you would find opposition to vaccination a good deal more rational..
@John Boy: It was possible years ago to go without vaccination and be safe because a lot of the diseases that vaccinations targeted was killed out in this country.
With the rise in immigrations into this country from 3rd world countries those diseases are returning.
Vaccinations aren’t 100% safe – nothing is and anyone who says otherwise is just fooling themselves. People can get reactions to any drugs, with vaccinations some of those reactions are life changing but the alternative is to return to a high infant mortality rate.
@Tony Daly: No. I’d rather you just withdrew your incorrect statement regarding their ” non-existent” risk.
@B9xiRspG: I know, i’m joking based on a well known meme
@Daffy the Bear: protecting their lives and health is more important that a very remote and unproven risk of adverse side effects.
@Tony Daly: yeah Tony, ya said already.. Come back and tell all about how rational you’ve been when it’s your child left irreparably damaged by vaccines..
@Daffy the Bear: it’s a negligible risk compared to be proven beneficial protection. Balance cost and benefit. Benefit wins unless irrational scaremongering takes over.
@Tony Daly: So you keep saying; and so I’ll keep repeating: tell me all about the benefits outweighing the risks when it’s your family that’s been affected..
@Daffy the Bear: you forget or intentionally that it is not only my family’s welfare at stake or at risk.
It is the lives and health of pregnant women, the foetus they carry, young women, the elderly, the immuno compromised, those in chemotherapy, those on anti rejection medication, this who have COPD, those who have CF, thisecwith heart disease, those with asthma, even healthy people’s lives and health are at stake because of a minimal to non-existent risk.
Even those who have received certain vaccines may be at risk because of infection from the unvaccinated community.
There is really no excuse for your degree of ignorance and/or irrationality. You are advocating a highly irresponsible position.
@Tony Daly: Good man Tony. If you are fool enough to believe that burning your family to keep others warm is your duty, go right ahead. I will not put mine in the firing line to be subjected to unproven and unsafe medical treatments again..
As I said before, if someone close to you is affected, you’ll be able to take comfort in your rationality..
@Daffy the Bear: you will kill and damage others and potentially even your own family with that attitude.
You reveal the “mind” of an anti vaccination crank.
@Tony Daly: my family are already paying the price of my belief in the safety of vaccination shots; that damage cannot be undone. I learn from my mistakes.
@Daffy the Bear: that is your assertion but it ignores all the good that has been done.
It may be the case that even if your child had some adverse issue that it may not have been related to or caused by the vaccine.
I’ll go with the professional medical advice. My children have not suffered any ill effects from vaccination.
@Tony Daly: Well that’s that then. Once your kids are alright, that’s okay. All the parents of children injured by vaccines must have imagined it; the kids were always suffering these symptoms, the parents just didn’t notice..
The one that’s doing fine is down to everyone else having the vaccine. So yours get protected. The herd. Idiot. You should keep quiet rather than show your ignorance.
@Kerri Donahue Meenagh: indeed nurses are paid properly in the USA. In Ireland they are paid the same as the ward secretaries who work less hours and get more holidays. It’s this paternalistic approach which denigrates nursing that gets us.
Wouldn’t trust anything the government says on any matter due to feck ups in the past and that comment about nurses is a sexual stereotype that demands an immediate retraction and apology. How in fvuk did that get past the beaurocrats in the use?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21157018
http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vaccine-ingredients
Aluminium is found in vaccines and maybe linked to Alzheimer’s. Maybe that’s why there’s a poor up take. mmm chocolate sprinkled donuts
@Damo Doyle: and there’s iron in our blood! OMG!!!
@Damo Doyle: http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vaccine-ingredients
@Ryan Comiskey: iron is found naturally in the body aluminium isnt
@Damo Doyle: There’s more aluminium in breast milk…
@John Boy: absolute boll0cks..
@Daffy the Bear: Check your facts “Small amounts of aluminum are contained in our air, water, soil and food. In fact, aluminum is contained in breast milk and is also present in higher levels in infant formula.”
@B9xiRspG: exactly, also this research
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0048969795047024?via=ihub
and this
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/112/6/1394/
I could go on
@B9xiRspG: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20010978
“Exclusively, breastfed infants (in Brazil) receiving a full recommended schedule of immunizations showed an exceedingly high exposure of Al (225 to 1750 ųg per dose) when compared with estimated levels absorbed from breast milk (2.0ųg).”
@Daffy the Bear: well there can be up to nearly 2700ųg of aluminium in breast milk, see my first link above do the maths.
Also, from another link i’ve posted somewhere here there’s this
“By 6 months of age, infants typically ingest ∼6700 μg of aluminum in breast milk, 37800 μg in infant formula, or 116600 μg in soy-based formula”
The minimum risk of aluminium consumption is currently set a 2mg/kg/day, just for information
@Damo Doyle: You need to go back and redo your Google search. The link between Alzheimers and Aluminium wast discredited years back.
@Damo Doyle: http://www.truthwiki.org/mercury-in-vaccines/
Once again we have deflection in this debate. The authorities again emphasise the outstanding benefits that vaccines have had on the health of the masses.
That’s not the debate. Nobody is disputing that. Nobody (well very few) are saying we should stop vaccination.
What people are saying is that perhaps 1/500 (for example) are left injured by vaccines.
These people are described as anti vaccine. If they were anti vaccine they wouldn’t have had their kids vaccinated.
I’ll tell you what’s going on here.
Vaccinations work if their is a critical uptake. The governments cannot allow any bad press on vaccinations and they will spin and twist about vaccines being completely safe for EVERYONE.
Let me ask this.
Are vaccines tested on those with poor health?
@Tom Burke: a look into the history of fraud, scientific malpractice and corporate malfeasance of the pharma giants would call into question whether these shots are properly tested at all. There’s an enormous amount of money to be made here; these corporations are not to be trusted..
@Daffy the Bear:
1) Vaccines are meticulously tested. The studies/trials are there for you to look at – no need to “wonder” any longer.
2) The money in vaccines is pitiful compared to the money in developing and manufacturing small drug, biologic or even orphan drugs, so the idea that it’s all a big money making racket doesn’t really hold up.
@Malachi: 1. Wrong. Show me the “meticulous” testing. Have you seen these studies or just heard of them? Analysed and interpreted the data yourself? Show me??
2. Wrong. It’s a huge money making racket: $20 billion profits per year is massive money no matter how you try to spin it; people will gladly murder for much much less. Is the possibility that pharma companies might place that massive profit above the welfare of the public so hard to believe? Why?
@Daffy the Bear: Yes, they are http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/123/1/e164.full
@John Boy: Yes they are what? What does your question mean? What is this link meant to prove?
@Daffy: Still living up to your moniker I see
@Darren Tully: Good one Darren, well done; never mind letting a thing like making any sense whatsoever get in the way of your rush to make a smart-arse comment. Flute..
@Daffy the Bear: why not click on the link, read and perhaps assuage your ignorance a little
@Daffy the Bear:
I’ve read countless vaccine clinical trials/studies on efficacy/safety etc.
I don’t need to be told they don’t exist by someone who clearly hasn’t even bothered to enter *vaccine of your choice* in the search bar of any online scientific journal or even Google Scholar/Science Direct.
If there’s a specific safety test you’re trying to find, I can link you to it. I couldn’t cite all the studies here because a) there are thousands and b) the journal limits you to two links (?) per comment.
Since we’re talking about the flu vaccine in this article:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S147330991170295X
Maybe you don’t know how to search academic journals – that’s fine too – but to say the studies on safety/efficacy don’t exist is the height of nonsense.
@Daffy the Bear: As for corporations putting profits above the welfare of people – do you understand why organisations like the HPRA/FDA/EMA/etc. exist?
These products have to be comprehensively shown to be safe before they get to the human stage, nevermind getting to market. You don’t understand how medicine development works – that’s your fault, not the fault of big pharma.
$20B profit a year? As I said, big money to us but tuppence compared to the big money in drug manufacture. It’s a pretty inefficient money racket if you’re right…
@Malachi: I understand why organisations like HPRA/FDA/EMA etc. exist ostensibly and I understand how medicine development should work. However, if you trust those organisations, rife with corruption and conflicts of interest, then it is you who does not understand how medicine marketing works.
As regards research, please link me to just ONE study that comprehensively demonstrates that heavy metal preservatives and adjuvants in children’s vaccines are safe (the link you posted proves nothing in relation to the safety, and very little in relation to the efficacy, of the vaccine).
@Malachi: would you get a grip..are you seriously trying to say that none of these groups are funded by pharma…a.lot of stufies have turned out to be fraudelent…for goodness sake man….pharma is ine of the biggest profit making industry in the world…sure didnt they tell all thise pregnant women Thalidomide was safe & a brilliant drug for morning sickness…they even had the studies to prove it…we dont hear about the billions paid in wrongful death cases i.e compensation in the states due to the fact that we dont have the funds to take on a pharmaceutical co. in court…for the record I am not anti vacc’…I had all mine…I do not have children to have any either, I am not against anybody getting it, my opinion on this argument is that parents have the right to informed consent…not just what the HSE want them to hear…
SERIOUSLY????? Chocoaltes and/or Ipads. How the hell do people who make stupid comments like this get the jobs they get? Who wrote the medical literature he read that in……….juniour infants class. Jeez give nurses the credit they deserve…they are not children who need to be bribed with fat filled chocolate to get them to do as they are told!!! Treat them properly, listen to their worries, how long have nurses been crying out for assitance and funding and proper pay? Stop TELLING them what they should do…ask them and listen to them. They are on the front line of hospitals they are the ones who know the score. They are slowly leaving the system. If ye continue to make stipid statements like this time will come where there will be no nurses in our hospitals ….so no hospitals. Any person who ends up in hospital for any length of time all praise the nurses who looked after them………for Gods sake look after the nurses!!!!!!
Journal why dont you cover the fact that Jonathan Irwin founder of the Jack and Jill Foundation stepped down as CEO of his charity to care for his daughter who has been injured by the HPV gardasil vaccine. He came out publically on this issue 2 days ago and nothing has been mentioned in the mainstream media. Its a disgrace.
@Rachel Sheridan: that would not fit the narrative being pushed here..
@Rachel Sheridan: anecdote is not evidence of causation.
The Journal really pushing this agenda hard this past few weeks… this must be the fourth or fifth article on the topic of vaccination in the last week alone. Uptake is down because, despite the best efforts of vaccine manufacturers and their promoters, the public are waking up to the constituent ingredients of, and the associated dangers presented by, these shots.
Where is the scientific proof by way of isolation and identification of the viruses which are perported to a. cause flu and b. be in the vaccine? Bottom line is neither have been proven. Safety aside there’s no proof they work.
@Tracey Northern: their substantial efficacy has been empirically established and signed off on by the medical profession and specialised independent regulatory agencies.
Why is nursing a graduates job
@Tony Hardwicke: why what’s your question about? It’s a very complex job.
@Tony Hardwicke: What do you think nurses do?!
@Tony Hardwicke: why not?
@KT: they deliver holistic care to everybody,and run hospital departments as well.
Research VMAT2, also known as the God Gene, then you will see why theres such an agenda driven movement to “vaccinate” anyone and everything.
@UpThereAndHereAsWell: I have researched VMAT2 extensively. What a vesicular monoamine transporter in the synaptic vesicles has to do with spirituality or vaccines I will never know – you’ve been had be a con man unfortunately.
@UpThereAndHereAsWell: I could hear the twilight zone theme music playing when I read your comment.
@Malachi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-el008ECxiE
Heres a video from the Pentagon showing individuals discussing how this gene is more active in “fundamentalists”, hence why they are trying to eliminate what they refer to a virus. Perhaps before saying I’ve been had by a con man how about asking or doing abit more research. It seems you’ve done bugger all
@UpThereAndHereAsWell: pure comedy!
@UpThereAndHereAsWell: That video has been widely debunked as a hoax.
metabunk.org/threads/317-Debunked-FunVax-Pentagon-Briefing-on-Removing-the-God-Gene
Anyway – I’ve done plenty of research into VMAT. It’s part of my job description. This VMAT hype is distorted woo science that was formulated by and gets traction with people who don’t know anything about pharmacology.
@UpThereAndHereAsWell: I really wish people would stop calling youtube videos “research”.
@Imogene Blignaut: At no point did I claim to do “research”
@Imogene Blignaut: youtube is just a host website for video content.
You are missing the point by dissing a video because it’s hosted on youtube.
Chocolate > Sex.
@Jack Cassady: So is chocolate better than KY lol.
This is brilliant
This article is all over the map, and treats all vaccines the same. Every vaccine is different, with it’s own problems and benefits. There is good reason not to take a flu shot and HPV vaccine.
The polio and measles vaccine are important and actually work and should be taken, though now that these diseases are under control, I would delay a year or two until baby is more developed. Adverse events go way down when shots delayed.
The flu shot barely works, is not needed and has unique problems. Healthcare workers should not take this shot.
http://sciencenordic.com/too-many-taking-flu-vaccine And for much more on this problem, see links 19 to 27 at this site.
-http://flushotcanada.blogspot.ca
Flu shots are mandatory in the US for nurses because the pharmaceuticals run the medical system in the US.
-https://www.mctlawyers.com/vaccine-injury/cases/ Here is a tested of vaccine side effects, notice most are the flu shot. This is US, with their Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, VICP.
This article is all over the map. First the flu shot, then polio. Every vaccine is different. People are right not to take a flu shot or the HPV vaccine. But the polio and measles vaccines are important.
Though now that these diseases are under control, I would delay a year or two before giving them to a baby. The adverse events go way down.
Nurses and doctors are correct not to take a flu shot. See here.
-http://sciencenordic.com/too-many-taking-flu-vaccine For much more on this problem, see here. http://flushotcanada.blogspot.ca
-https://www.mctlawyers.com/vaccine-injury/cases/ This is for those that say vaccines are totally safe, notice most of problems are the flu shot.
have your say