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Updated 6.40pm
TODAY’S GOBSMACKING REVELATIONS that there was systemic recording of both incoming and outgoing calls to Garda stations around the country has sparked a major inquiry.
Taoiseach Enda Kenny said today that the Government was first made aware by the Attorney General of the breadth of recordings on Sunday – and the fact that the recordings dated back as far as the 1980s.
This “new information” however won’t surprise anyone who will have noted a report by the Garda Ombudsman relating to a case in Waterford in 2010.
Academic and journalist Elaine Byrne retweeted a message from a Tim Price on Twitter, pointing out that the recording of incoming and outcoming calls from a Garda station had previously been highlighted in a court case:
That case – although not the case referred to in today’s Government statement on how the systemic recordings came to light – shows that illegal recording of calls to and from Garda stations is a matter of public record.
In 2010, Anthony Holness of Waterford made a complaint that he had been assaulted by gardai in the city. That case went to trial in 2011, two gardai were jailed for harming Holness when he was being arrested; another garda was given a suspended sentence for perverting the course of justice.
In June of last year, GSOC claimed that gardai had not co-operated with the watchdog’s investigation into the claims – and, as reported in this TheJournal.ie article from that time, “was also critical of Waterford Garda station for illegally recording telephone conversations and called on Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan to immediately review procedures”.
The full report from GSOC can be read here.
This is the most important passage (bold text by TheJournal.ie):
During the course of the trial the lawfulness or otherwise of the Garda Síochána at Waterford Garda Station recording incoming and outgoing calls on their public lines, and the admission of the evidence obtained during the use of such practices became the subject of protracted legal argument.
On the 29th of January 2010, shortly after the arrest of Mr Holness, there was telephone communication between certain of the accused. These calls were recorded on the Garda Síochána recording system and a recording was provided to GSOC. This recording was offered in evidence by the DPP. Objections were raised by the Defence. The court held that the practice engaged in by the gardaí at Waterford Garda Station of recording all incoming and outgoing calls on a particular phone line was in breach of the relevant statute on the recording of telephone communications, which requires that at least one of the parties to a phone call has consented to its being recorded.
This requirement was deemed to have not been met on this occasion. The court ruled that the evidence obtained in those calls was inadmissible.
On consideration of the ruling of the court the Garda Commissioner may wish to re-evaluate his practice regarding the recording of such calls and the consents required if it is to be permissible to use such recordings in evidence.
Despite this admonition in June of last year, Taoiseach Kenny said today in the Dáil that the system of recording incoming and outgoing calls at a large number of Garda stations stayed in place until November last year, with the Government only being informed of the extend of this practice this Sunday, and an inquiry launched only this afternoon.
This evening, a government spokesperson said they were not aware of any discussion in relation to the report in question at government level or whether Justice Minister Alan Shatter was aware of it when it was published last year.
Several queries to the Department of Justice about if and what Shatter knew about the report and whether he discussed it with the Garda Commissioner were not immediately returned.
- additional reporting Hugh O’Connell
First published 4.46pm
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Kenny needs to wake up! They have been recorded since the 80s and now he’s claiming no one told him ha
Excuse my ignorance but I’m confused, does this mean 999 calls are recorded? I thought this was the practice anyway but maybe I’m wrong!!
Yes 999 calls are recorded…what this is saying is that calls to garda station are also recorded since the 80s.
But Kenny is saying no one told him
Of course 999 calls would have to be recorded, but the other is corruption in the force. Comments below are laughable but lets hope none of you are ever ‘ guilty until proven innocent.’
Jesus they’d be givin out too if the calls weren’t being recorded, then the Guards would be hiding something, I’d actually expect the calls to a Garda station to be recorded! The guards can’t win, I’d hate to be in a job that’s underpaid and over scrutinised. Rather them than me!
“Yes 999 calls are recorded…what this is saying is that calls to garda station are also recorded since the 80s”
So conversations between people in custody and their legal representatives were listened to and recorded illegally? This is game-changing if true… the type of thing that would bring down a government. How many criminal convictions will now have doubts raised concerning their validity?
@ Mart N
It doesn’t matter that those conversations mentioned by you would be recorded as they could never be used in evidence by the Gardai.
To say no one knew is crap. The average guard might not of known or had suspicion they were being recorded but bosses knew
Guilty until proven innocent? What are u on about? This is talking about the recording of phone calls…
If anything the law is not on the side of the victim…is all on the side of repeat offenders
To be honest I ‘d be amazed if they weren’t recorded
It’s illegal full stop
I would of thought that calls to and from Garda stations were recorded anyway?
I always assumed would be,for protection of Gardaí incase of threats from criminals, and public from un professional conduct.
Sorry ,wrong country, this is the Republic of Ireland not the the Republic of North Korea,are you over the age of reason
The issue concerns the recording of calls on a public line, that is the line that members of the public use when making outbound calls from a Garda station. It was used to collect evidence for example between a potential accused and their lawyers.
Why because potential accused tells lawyer over phone truth and information in middle of Garda station i dont believe it for a second.
It doesn’t matter a jot, if they can prove that conversations between them and their solicitor were illegally listened to then they can appeal on the grounds that their defence was compromised. The law is black and white on this issue, you cannot record these conversations, that precedent was setout in the GSOC ruling above.
Wont help much if they didnt say anything and cant prove said so called information came from that phone call. So doesnt matter what they claim does it?
If they find the so called conversations i dont believe happened in first place then sort it.
Still have no issue with those phones in Garda stations being recorded or listened to.As its in the Garda station.
Brendan you seem to be getting your two cents in, But as this was made aware in 2010, what have you done in the last 4 years to highlight this situation?
So you have no problem with the Gardai acting illegally?
One of the major tenants that the Irish Justice system is built on if the right to fair representation, and that includes solicitors and clients conversations being private. Now if you believe that these calls were done so for “Training and Quality services purposes” then god love ya.
The big issue is when this gets tested in the courts, it becomes a black and white issue, the same as an illegal warrant etc. and could see cases quashed as a result.
@Karen it was illegal. Don’t you get that ?
Dont you get the part it doesnt bother me! And i dont see uproar is about. But what ever people need something to give out.
Great distraction from the matters that matter in Ireland.
Like whistle blowers on actual matters that matter in our Gardai and being called disgusting and shatter not making the commissioner apologise or not resigning even though he knew. And the rest of the cronies who also knew in government about it and the banking stuff etc… etc,…
And here is how they distract.
Continue to be distracted.
Ok you don’t care that the guards acted illegally for over 30 years. Enough said.
From the Law Society Michael:
“Legal professional privilege is a fundamental feature of the administration of justice
and the rule of law. When communications, which qualify as privileged communications,
pass between a solicitor and his client, or a person who consults the solicitor with a view
to becoming a client, the solicitor cannot be compelled to disclose those communications.
Communications which qualify as privileged communications are those which contain
legal advice. Both oral and written communications may be protected by privilege.
Privilege applies to any legal advice, not only to communications made prior to, and
during the course of legal proceedings.”
Quite clearly listening to those conversations is a breach of that privilege.
Testing testing, one, two, one
You dont seem to be hearing me Brendan. Criminals would not tell the lawyer to go hide the gun, or i hid the cash in the house next door over the phone. Nor would they admit or have full conversations about said things on phone.
So even if listened to, it will not cause any problem with criminals locked up and will not have them all getting out in matter of months.
Instead of having a go at the Gardaí have a go at what matters and do the job i voted sf in for. A change in government and stop the poverty in this country and criminals taking over.
That doesn’t matter, what they say is irrelevant, it’s the practice that is at issue. At all times a client must have comfort that all discussions with a solicitor are happening in private. It’s fundamental to the doctrine of privilege. The Gardai are aware of this but chose to act illegally. Do you have a system of justice when you turn your back on the most fundamental of rights afforded under the law?
This just confirms what many people already knew. Our police force is systemically corrupt and up until now there has been very little political will to change it. Hopefully we will now get the transparent and accountable system we deserve but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Whats the big deal seriously anyone want to share this terrible thing that happened with me lol.
The big story is this, if the Gardai recorded calls made between a person in detention and their legal representatives and then illegally used that information to gain a conviction then that conviction can be overturned by the courts. This could, as a result, lead to thousands of people seeking a review to find out if their defence was compromised as a result of this practice, and if they were recorded they could walk free. There is a huge difference in recording 999 calls and recording calls between legal representatives and their clients which are protected conversations. It is hard to imagine a bigger abuse of power than the one unfolding today. I expect FG to protect Shatter, but Labour have once again shown themselves as being impotent and totally useless in government. SHAME ON LABOUR!!
So your saying they recorded phone calls that couldnt be used in court,so had no impact what so ever on their trial? I still am at a loss how people would think this is a issue. So you are saying criminals told their lawyers information over phone about their criminal activities. lol I highly doubt that.
Sorry this is nothing more than an attack on Gardaí because they are not all bending over for the corrupt masses in politics and those in Garda. So they drag this rubbish they knew all along was happening to forefront to distract from governments both ff and fg and labs lacking.
The practice is illegal, that is the end of it, and if a person, who may be guilty or not, was recorded then there is a fair chance due to this practice that they could walk if they can show their defence was compromised. If the Gardai do not act within the law then you have no law. By this illegal act you could see dozens of criminals out on the streets.
There now needs to be a whole tear down of this force and real structures put in place to hold it accountable.
Brendan everyone with common sense knows or knew they were being recorded public phone or not in a Garda station.
No there doesnt need to be tear down. I dont like the smell coming from this attack on Gardaí.
And i already answered about the criminals who you say so called will get out because of this. Youre just scaremongering.
You see no problem with the Gardai illegally recording phone calls made to and from Garda stations for the last 30 years? You see no problem with zero degree of separation between our Garda Commissioner and whoever happens to be given the position of Justice Minister? You see no problem with those who draw attention to malpractice being attacked, discipined and in the case of John Wilson, forced from their job? You see no problem with a Garda Commissioner threathening legal action to prevent whistleblowers from testifying publicly in front of the PAC? You see no problem with an internal Garda report finding no evidence of widespread abuse within the administration of our penalty points system only for that to be disproved a month later by the the publication of an independant report?
There is none as blind as those who will not see.
Lets see it tested in the courts. T
his is on top of GSOC, penalty points, the several other cases highlighted by the whistle-blowers including rape and murder, allegations of a major drug dealer being protected by the Gardai, and now allegations of illegal recordings being made which could compromise thousands of cases. Of course there needs to be a full root and branch tear down of the Gardai, it needs to be made fit for purpose. It also needs a Minister for Justice that people have faith in, which requires Shatter to sling his hook!
@ Brendan
Rape!?
Well obviously he needs to go.Never thought any of the ministers for justice in last 20 years in this country have been competent for such a job in first place.
The Gardaí protecting drug dealers rape murder are the few who choose that.Nothing to do with Gardaí and their system.
And phone call recordings are nothing to do with this.
Of course take out the bad element in Gardaí. Unfortunately corruption will always be in some way shape or form. Not acceptable,but like saying we can get rid of criminality altogether.
It is made for fit purpose,what isnt is the laws in this country and the attacks on garda resources.
What and where did you get that in the comment i made?
God people are big of assumptions like they are about this story.
And no, no problem what so ever with Gardaí station phones being recorded.
You asked me what the big deal is and what was this terrible thing that has happened. I’ve told you.
Karen,even this – nothing to see here government-considered this phone tapping so grave they immediately set up an independent inquiry….don’t get it!..then it’s past your bedtime along with all the other tots Karen
Of course they did now! They didnt before! oh crap we are going to be outed and people are going to know FF FG LAB GREENS PD all knew about it.
Time for your bed time naive tot yourself, You believing they actually give a damn or lose sleep over this barr the fact they might be booted out, Shows you believe in the tooth fairy.
Get real.
It’s okay Karen I believe in you
The greatest threat to law and order is that its enforcers consider themselves to be above it. If the Gardai have been systemically breaking the laws they took an oath to enforce, than the force is not fit for purpose.
– Call outbound. 7.15PM. Duration 3 mins, 5 seconds. –
“Eh, can I get three Chicken Fried Rice, Two Beef in Black Bean Sauce, A Kung Po Chicken, all with fried rice and can I get some Prawn Crackers. One of the lads will nip up in the squad car in 15 minutes to pick it up”
End of call.
It took you 3 mins and 5 seconds to say all that? Back to school for u kid
Wow. That was just hilarious.
It just proves that the Gardai see themselves as being above the law, and the likes of Callinan and Shatter give the nod of approval. The likes of Kenny continually pretending he knows nothing about anything untill the evidence hits him in the face is just that, pretence. Nothing will ever be admitted until the evidence is in the public domain. What a way to run the police force of a country.
Nothing to see here folks move along now…
Plenty to see here and more to come
I was being sarcastic….
Lol Donal, you need to try harder or I need to believe less in what I read
Presumably many of the phone calls being recorded were between suspects in Garda custody and their lawyers without those individuals being aware this was going on. If the Gardai used these recordings as part of their investigations there could be a lot of unsafe criminal convictions out there.
I’m surprised that people are surprised. Time for a complete overhaul of the Gardai. The RUC was disbanded when it had lost the trust of the community in the North. Time to apply the same standards down here too.
Is it not now a possibility that dozens of criminals could be released on the legal technicality of recorded phone conversations? Then watch as they line up to claim millions for unlawful imprisonment. Another appalling vista.
So that’s how they got Gilligan!
I see last Monday that government e-tenders are seeking prices for a CCTV System with PA and Audio. One has to assume that this system is for remote viewing and monitoring over the Internet. Gas thing is, the system is for the CRC in Clontarf !!
Ah here….leave it out.
GUBU !
Surely the veracity of any evidence presented in the courtroom has to be as pure as the driven snow and subject to corroboration, to make it stick.
How is evidence, gathered by earwigging via tape recording a phone conversation in a Garda station between lawyer and suspect, made stand up in a court of law?
I doubt if gathering evidence for any trial was the real motive behind this particular “programme”
Let’s just bring in the French system Guilty until proven innocent
Sounds like all the hallmarks of NSA spying.
There should be an commission of investigation as to why none of our legal and crime journalists failed to expose this story before now.
Ello ello?
The only time there was ever an attempt to use a recording in a court case was when gardai were being prosecuted.
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