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Does my Irish passport (and citizenship) still give me the same rights as Irish citizens born in the Republic of Ireland?
My question to you is do we need to move south so we can be proper citizens of our own land?
SEVERAL QUERIES WERE sent to the Irish government from people concerned about the implications of the DeSouza ruling on their citizenship status.
Derry woman Emma DeSouza won a case against the UK’s Home Office in 2017 after it deemed she was British when her US-born husband Jake applied for a residence card, with the judge in that tribunal arguing that the Good Friday Agreement “supersedes” British domestic law: “Nationality cannot therefore be imposed upon them at birth.”
But on 14 October, an immigration tribunal upheld an appeal brought by the Home Office, and argued in its decision that “a person’s nationality cannot depend in law on an undisclosed state of mind”.
This decision is now being appealed by DeSouza; the Irish government also supports the DeSouzas’ argument, with Taoiseach Leo Varadkar stating in the Dáil that Emma DeSouza “is an Irish citizen”.
In a number of records released to TheJournal.ie under a Freedom of Information request, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade officials are seen writing to one another about the calls.
“A mentioned on the phone,” one official wrote to another on 17 October, “we are getting a few calls/emails from the public who are concerned about the implications of the DeSouza verdict on their Irish citizenship.”
Emailed queries
Among the emailed queries sent to the Department between 14-29 October is one from a person who hopes that their “anxiety” in relation to the DeSouza verdict “is misplaced”:
“I am an Irish citizen… A reading of a summary of the DeSouza case suggests to me that in UK law I am considered a British citizen, and that the UK does not recognise my Irishness until if/when I relinquish/disown it.”
In other correspondence, an official says that they “got a call with a similar query from a Northern Ireland born Irish citizen asking a similar question”, this being ‘what effect does the DeSouza case have on Irish citizenship’.
On 15 October, a citizen wrote a lengthy email addressed to Taoiseach Leo Varadkar about the verdict: “I am writing to you because I am really upset about the ruling of the immigration tribunal court in the UK about Irish citizens living in the north of Ireland”.
This is unacceptable. I don’t want to be a British citizen. I am Irish and I travel on an Irish passport, as did my mother and grandmother before me.
How many others in the north of Ireland identify as Irish citizens? I’m sure they don’t all want to be British! Is there anything you can do to help with this?
The writer said that they were concerned about “the uncertainty of Brexit” and now the DeSouza ruling. “These problems are causing tensions in my community which has been relatively peaceful since the 1998 Good Friday Agreement.”
“I don’t know what to do to protect my sons. They have never seen The Troubles here… I don’t ever want them to go [through] anything like the suffering of The Troubles.”
So my question to you is do we need to move south so we can be proper citizens of our own land?
On 15 October, a person sent a query into the Irish embassy in Rome:
“I have just become aware of the British High Court ruling that all people born in Northern Ireland are British citizens by default. I have come here on my Irish passport. Do we need residency asap?”
When the reply said that all Irish citizens travelling or living in Italy have to register with the embassy on the DFA website, the person replied on 17 October:
I’m basically looking to clarify that this British High Court ruling hasn’t affected the requirements or rights for me as an Irish citizen.
“Does my Irish passport (and citizenship) still give me the same rights as Irish citizens born in the Republic of Ireland?”
DeSouza has accused the UK Government of failing to implement the provisions of Good Friday Agreement into UK domestic law. She said her case will have implications for EU citizens post-Brexit.
Response from the Irish Government
In response to a query from TheJournal.ie, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, a spokesperson said that it had received a number of representations from members of the public.
“Irish citizenship is a matter of Irish law and applies regardless of residency. Irish citizenship is unaffected by the ongoing DeSouza case in the UK courts,” it said.
The Citizenship and Identity provisions of the Good Friday Agreement are central to the Good Friday Agreement and it is vital that they are upheld. The Government has consistently engaged with the British Government in support of this, and continues to do so.
“The Taoiseach has raised the De Souza case with the British Prime Minister and has confirmed that he will do so again following the UK general election. The Tánaiste has discussed the matter with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on a number of occasions, most recently on 14 November. The Tánaiste has written to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the British Home Secretary to formally ask that the review that was mandated be urgently concluded to provide an outcome that is consistent with the letter and spirit of the Good Friday Agreement.
In February, then Prime Minister Theresa May acknowledged the serious concerns in this area and pledged to ‘review the issues around citizenship urgently to deliver a long term solution consistent with the letter and spirit’ of the Agreement.
In this context, the decision of the Tribunal in the De Souza case on 14 October does not define the extent of the British Government’s obligations under the Good Friday Agreement.
In the Good Friday Agreement, both the UK and Irish governments “recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both” and “confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments”.
“The Good Friday Agreement therefore,” the Department statement continues, “includes an explicit right to both Irish and British citizenship, and an explicit right of people to identify and be accepted as Irish or British or both.
It is imperative that people in Northern Ireland have confidence in these provisions of the Agreement, in letter and in spirit. To provide for that, a positive outcome to the review mandated by the British Government is now urgently needed.
“A sensitive and generous approaches by the British Government are needed to ensure that the right of people in Northern Ireland to identify as Irish, or British, or both is meaningfully provided for in all relevant policy areas. The Government will continue to strongly pursue this with the British Government, as a co-guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement.”
Have the UK Government consulted the DUP on this plan yet? I can already see the pained look on Paisley Jr’s face…
@Ruairi Gagarin: They’ll be raging even more when they find out she was Protestant when she fought against the empire…converted after the rising at some stage I believe.
@Dead Mousche: she’d pop back now if she was around and saw what her new flock did !
@Ruairi Gagarin: imagine the British governments dismay when they discovered that the first female elected member was an abstentionist shinner lol
Arlene will soon put a stop to that!
I’d say it’s fair to presume that this is a shining example of what little brittish people know about irish history. I’d say Teresa may just doesn’t know who she is. This could come back to bite her
@domas1507: Haha that’s what’s great about it, it’s like an eternal FU to the British Parliament from an Irish republican. I hope the most staunch conservatives don’t find out who she is until their at the commemoration speech, it’ll be gut wrenching experience for the old goats.
@domas1507: oh the usual mistake of underestimation, and the inability to take a compliment …
The main reason they spared Countess Markievicz life was because they were busy making political capital from the execution of the Nurse Edith Cavell by the Germans on the 12th October 1915.
@Jarlath Murphy: ah I’d say the fact she wasn’t from Thomas Street helped a bit too!
She killed a British policeman.
I’m sure, back in the days, the Irish Independent would’ve labelled her a terrorist!
Michael Latiff was Irish member of the RIC killed by the countess….We did not have British police in Dublin in 1916….
@John003: Were we not all British then?
@Paul Kelly: you’re right, we were.
And pre-1776, Americans were British.
@John003:
The RIC were British.
@Paul Kelly:
No.
@Fran Lonergan: Yes
@Franklin Roosevelt: oh you’re using the Countess now to excuse all the dirtbags that murdered policemen in this country now, and are walking around free as birds.. at lest they are using their own names I suppose !
@Paul Kelly: Irish people were never British.
@Paul Kelly: I’m sure all the kids lying under priests and Christian brothers , and abused by nuns , under what freedom brought , under Dev and Mc Quaid’s watch were proud to be Irish too ?
@Gerry Campbell: I think she should be commentated, but we should not forget that the was an absolute nut job that was the most trigger happy spanner back in the day. At least Pearse and Connolly had a bit of romance – she was a nutcase!
@Franklin Roosevelt: That was more for the way the RIC treated the people of dublin during the lockout strike of 1913. they illegally aimed for peoples skulls instead of the shoulders. attempted murder more like.
@Gulliver Foyle: Connolly wasn’t simple either, he wanted to shoot the RIC man on duty in the GPO that day, execute a prisoner, a fellow Irishman trying to feed his family, and unfortunately in the worst post in Dublin that day, fortunately Connollys orders were countermanded by his CO The O’ Rahilly.
Did she take the scenic route to the Dail, so she could claim expenses, too?
@Eyepopper: She took the scenic route to Glasnevin cemetery, one of the largest funerals Dublin ever saw.
And who will be the real heroes of the present and the near future?
Who will inspire better times, kinder times, fairer times and more egalitarian times?
Will we be defined in the 21st century only by success in the pursuit of money.
@Fiona deFreyne: Your posts are so cryptic, i cannot understand them, what country are you from?
The absolute hypocrisy of FF eulogising this heroine for her abstentionism from Westminster while repeatedly trying to condemn SF for their abstentionism from Westminster. Pathetic stuff from ‘The Republican Party’.
@Tír Eoghain Gael: no I think you will find ”twas all the bodies with plastic bags over their heads in ditches gave us the distaste for ye ?
@Gerry Campbell: Back in the day of the old IRA, the murders committed by members of what is now the FF party were no different than the murders committed by SF. Murder is murder, and yet you glorify and honor those that fought and died to free the South, but condemn those who fought and died to free the North.
Would Sinn Féin reciprocate and take their seats in Westminster? This would destabilise the pact between the DUP and the Tories and further the road to unification. Why not? It would be an empty gesture like FF taking the oath of allegiance to oust Cumann na nGael?
FG will be delighted.
She’s the spit of Cillian Murphy in Breakfast on Pluto
@Stephen: Do not be so disrespectful to a woman who did not have to, but sacrificed her privileged life for a cause she believed in.
@Tom&Gerry: you need to chill super paddy, he can say what he likes, that’s Ireland of long ago we have long since sold our souls
@Eddie Nugent: You are so right, Thanks for the super paddy tag, i really like it and will wear it with pride.
The Polish Community in Ireland will be pleased that she was married to a Polish Count.
Great auld lad that fella….
More huffing and door slamming now from comb over republicans who can’t get their heads around why Britain neither knows or cares about Irish history. Why should they? Your not that important lads
@Kevin Slater: Well they must be very uneducated if they don’t know or care anything about a country they invaded and ruled for centuries.
@Tom&Gerry: totally agree with Kevin . They couldn’t care less about Irish history . I don’t think they really care about their own history either . They don’t seem to be hung up on the history thing like us Irish . WW1 and WW2 seems to the only part of history they care about .
She’s my hero a leading lady in irish history .
The original pussy-pass?
@Liam Mac Roibin: Shame on you, you are insulting a person of honour who sacrificed her privileged life for the cause of freedom for the Irish people. Please show some respect.
@Tom&Gerry: handing out the shame on you badges, look around at all the Irish that shame and show no respect everyday, do you really think those who have sacrificed there lives back then would really think it was worth it now, I doubt it.
@Eddie Nugent: If you are talking about the way this country was sold over to The E.U. and being flooded with migrants of a dangerous persuasion, i agree with you. Otherwise i don’t understand what you mean.
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