We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
KNOWN FOR GENERATIONS as a highly secretive and insular community, the Irish Travellers in the US are descended from a group of families that crossed the Atlantic as early as the 1830s.
It’s estimated there are as many as 10,000 people in the states who identify themselves as part of the community, although that number could be far greater – the problem being the US Census doesn’t recognise them as a separate ethnic group.
In recent years, US Travellers have begun to let their guard down a little. There was an episode of My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding that focused on the South Carolina area of Murphy Village a few years ago, for instance – although a producer of that show later told a local paper that “the men just didn’t want to talk to us”.
TV3 documentary-maker Paul Connolly found a similar story when he attempted to make contact with the community. Arriving in the area along with two members of the Navan Traveller Workshop, the journalist says it was difficult at first, but they eventually managed to “break the ice” with the locals.
However, the presenter also wanted to focus on another community – Oakhaven in Tennessee – and says that when his team first arrived they were “high-tailed out by a couple of vans”. Unsure how to proceed, Connolly managed to secure an appearance on a local morning TV news show, explained what he was about, and soon heard word that he was being invited to visit the area. As filming began and an element of trust was built, he found similar traditions amongst both groups:
What was amazing was that same customs had been preserved. They still speak Cant – but it’s a Gaelic-based Cant, unlike here – and they have the same traditions about money, about male and female roles in the community.
“However,” he says, “what most people find interesting about them is that they are incredibly, incredibly wealthy”.
(Tv3 Press)
The TV3 promotional material for ‘Travellers in America: A Secret Society’ depicts the documentary’s subjects showing-off palatial ‘mcmansions’, designer clothing brands and expensive cars. Asked how they earn a living, Connolly says the men work at “trades – tarmacing, roofing and so on”. However – “most of the income comes from insurance”. He explains:
It’s just very, very clever. In America, there’s a clause which allows you to insure anyone with a blood connection – and as they have intermarried for generations, there’s a likelihood there will be a blood connection.So they’ve worked out a way of profiting from this, and that, according to the Travellers I’ve spoken to, is how they make their money and how they’re so wealthy. Some of the more morbid characters we came across referred to it as ‘Death Watch’.
However, Connolly contends, “the community doesn’t regard it as odd or sinister”.
It’s a typical part of their lifestyle. As a wedding present someone will say ‘you can take a policy out on me!’ – so it’s a loophole that hasn’t been closed, I guess.
Another clip of the show, shown by TV3 at the launch of their new line-up at Ballymount this week, shows a woman who lives in one of the communities talking about their traditions regarding marriage – calmly explaining to the presenter that it’s fine for a thirteen year old girl to have sex with her ‘husband’ once “she’s started her cycles”.
According to Connolly, this was one of the hardest aspects of their way of life to find the truth about: “We’d heard a lot about this but one of the biggest things was trying to cut through the line of fact and fiction”.
What we discovered is that the girls are matched with older men at the age of six or seven – but there’s nothing untoward here at this stage. It’s all to do with legacy – if you marry into another rich family then pride of place in the town will stay with you for years to come.So at six or seven, families just say ‘they might make a good pair’. Then, at the ages of thirteen or fourteen they will have a marriage ceremony, but they won’t in fact be married.
The controversial aspect though is that these thirteen- or fourteen-year-old girls will be in a mock marriage with 22- or 23-year-old men.
The couples get married formally once the girl reaches the legal age, but Connolly says he was told that some families allow couples to have sex years before that point. The woman in the clip was one of two members of the community who attested to the practice on camera.
The journalist says the overall impression he was left with was one of a welcoming people who “haven’t fully assimilated into our world” and he says the tradition of encouraging young girls to get married is one divisive custom they appear to be “clinging onto”.
‘Travellers in America: A Secret Society’ airs on Tv3 in September.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Free contraception would only cost pennies compared to the cost of unwanted pregnancies and STIs. This is very much a case of short term cost resulting in savings going forward.
@Roddy Reagan: ” kill off unwanted babies” -what a boring git you are .
@John Cotter: John do you think it’s the price of a condom that’s preventing people from using it?
@Roddy Reagan: I would have thought you would have been in favour of those babies not being conceived in the first place?
@Fr.Todd Unctious: but if they were freely available in clubs/hotels/ pubs maybe they’d be used more. Or should we just not try anything?
@John Cotter: How would women using contraception prevent STIs.
@tom McCormack:
Probably increase STIs by becoming more promiscuous.
@Roddy Reagan: contraception would be cheaper than abortion too. What’s your stance on the actual question
@Fr.Todd Unctious: Sure how would you know you can’t spell your own name right
@tom McCormack:
Tom there are such things as female condoms.
@John Cotter: in these politically correct permanently outraged days of you-can’t say that / I have a very clear views of exactly the type of people that we should be providing free contraception for , I would go further and make it mandatory , then I would make sure all fathers are compelled to take care and provide for their children and I would compel deductions from welfare payments or pay to do so. Then if they continue to father multiple children ( they won’t when it costs them money ) I would make the snip mandatory. Similarly people who arrive to the island 8 months pregnant would have to means tested and welfare provisions would be deducted to stop the place becoming a destination of choice for cheap births that it has become but can’t be discussed
@Roddy Reagan: yep abortions for some contraception for others. Have you a point to make or are you just parroting something you heard without actually trying to understand what happens that leads to these decisions?
@Fr.Todd Unctious: it can do. Imagine you didn’t have a penny to your name but had the chance of the ride. What would you do?
its a great idea and then we can tell all the strategic single mothers to piss off
@Todd Unctuous: Sure how would you know? You can’t even spell your own name correctly
I don’t mind paying for the pill or whatever but the doctor’s visits that go with it should be free. Ideally it would be all free for everyone.
@Fred Croydon: are you saying only women on the dole are on the pill?
@Deborah Behan: No he’s not. Are you Cathy Newman?
@Fred Croydon: you know medical card holders (sone of whom are on the ‘dole’) already get free doctors visits?
@Lisa Saputo: That raises an interesting point. Why is the pill only available on prescription and not OTC? At this stage it must be the most real-life tested medicine in history. Certainly way more than the morning after pill, which doesn’t need you to go to a doctor. There seems no medical reason at all, other than the extra €100M or so it puts in GPs’ pockets.
@Fred Croydon: “Dole recipients”. If “dole recipients” don’t have a medical card they do have to pay. Even if they have a medical card they pay…
@Ben McArthur: The pill isn’t safe for everyone. Besides there are different forms of the pill too and some can cause issues if you have an underlying heart condition but can also cause issues so for all forms of ‘the pill’ this needs to be monitored by a GP every 6 months. The morning after pill (MAP) also comes in 2 forms and is different to the pill. Typically, it is take to try and prevent ovulation from happening but of course won’t be effective of ovulation has already occurred. There are very few risk factors with the MAP and some conditions that need to be met can be checked by a pharmacist easily and doesn’t require a health check.
@Kiera: But our neighbours have 200 deaths a year from paracetamol toxicity, and you can buy that in Aldi. Apparently we don’t even keep figures. The risks with the pill are about 15x less than pregnancy. Maybe we should let people with underlying conditions go to the doctor and not be bothering everyone else. Pharmacists can, and do, undertake blood pressure and pulse testing.
@Karen Wellington: I have a medical card & get the contraceptive Implanon for free but have to pay for the GP to insert it. It’s still cheap though as it only has to be changed every 3 years.
@Ben McArthur: Good point. Perhaps that’s something that should be looked at.
@Cindy Crawford: at least you get the implanon free!
I will be paying €134 or whatever the drug payment scheme payment for it is, and then another €120 or so for the GP appointment. I’m having to spread the cost over two months to be able to afford it.
I’m just hoping my antidepressants are covered by the dps. If not, I’ll have to give them up for at least a month.
For anyone wondering, I’m in full time employment.
@Daniel O’Connor: Lol, Cathy Newman, another crackpot C4′s brightest muppet.. By the way Deborah Behan has some new accounts, easy to spot.
@Mirabelle Stonegate: Yes I know I’m lucky. Now if I could just get lucky.
@Fred Croydon: Every body pays tax Fred even the unemployed. Contraceptives are used and needed by people in all walks of life.
@Lisa Saputo: I had a copper coil fitted last year. It wasn’t covered on my medical card, it cost €55. The pharmacist was so apologetic about the “enormous” cost of it.
Ten years of contraception for €55? I call that a bargain.
I just replied, it’s cheaper than a child.
I must point out that I am married, so barrier contraception isn’t a must have. Free condoms, specifically in pubs/nightclubs could potentially have a big impact on STI/pregnancy rates.
My mother brought me up to believe that all responsible, sexually active people should have a condom in their wallet/purse/bedside table.
@Ben McArthur: The pill is is a hormone addition, and can cause serious side effects, need check up every six months to be on safe side. It’s not as simple as popping a pill, or checking Bp
My husband and I had our child 11 years ago, I became seriously ill during pregnancy and had an emergency section at 30 weeks. I have been on medication since then and advised not to have more children as it would endanger my life. I pay my doctor €45 to see her every 12 weeks plus €20 to cover the cost of a contraceptive injection as no other forms are suitable. I don’t mind paying for it as the pros outweigh the negatives but yes it would be fantastic if it where free
@Cathriona Daley: a vasectomy cost about €500 and lasts a lifetime.
@Matt Connolly: we are actually hoping with recent medical advances and with an excellent doctor who is a top expert in my condition in the south west region we can maybe have a little hope so until I’ve exhausted every avenue nothing as permanent as a vasectomy is an option just yet, maybe in time!
@Matt Connolly: That’s a snip at that price
@Cathriona Daley:
I really hope it happens for you and you husband Cathriona. Best of luck x
@Matt Connolly: Apparently crippling after-pain is something that’s pretty widely reported. I’ve heard there can be some pretty serious chronic pain for years. There are other reported complications that can show up in the coming years after.
@Cathriona Daley:
We’ll keep our fingers crossed for you guys.
@Gav Quinn: only one qualified answer I can give to that.. mebollix
@Matt Connolly: that’s cheap for a sex change.
@Matt Connolly: and there in lies the problem of your thinking. Everyone is responsible for their own. Cathriona is taking responsibility for her own health needs. But you are straight in with a comment about a vasectomy. The male of the species are more than happy to leave females in charge of contraception. If lads dont want babies it is their responsibility to ensure they are looking after their own needs. Until this mindset changes and thr responsibility is tskrn seriously by both men and women, nothing will change.
@Carina Clarke: “advised not to have more children as it would endanger my life”
Tell me where it’s wrong to suggest a vasectomy when someone states that? So the femminazi get their knickers in a twist when men take responsibility for birth control too?
@Cathriona Daley: Vasectomies are not considered permanent. Just saying, not commenting on your situation.
@Matt Connolly: eh somewhere in the biology of her not having the equipment that requires a vasectomy I would think……
Condoms for everyone! Absolutely. A wonderful idea.
Also free tampons. And I’m being serious here
@Charlie Farrell: at least stop taxing tampons as luxury goods
@Dave O Keeffe: Actually, they aren’t taxed as luxury goods in Ireland. In fact, zero VAT is applied to them.
@Dave O Keeffe: Ireland is the only EU country exempt from adding VAT to sanitary products, the exemption was grandfathered in.
@Karen Wellington: The amount of people who thumbed up Dave’s alternative fact is proof that a lot of people believe everything they read on the internet.
@Griff: I believe that.
@Griff: my mistake, I was thinking of the UK and just assumed ours was the same. Mea culpa
@Dave O Keeffe:
There has to be an interesting story behind how you know the vat rate applied to tampons in the U.K. Care to share?
@Dave O Keeffe: the tampon tax in the UK is 5%. They can’t lower it anymore because of the EU (a problem they soon won’t have)
@Charlie Farrell: Free toilet paper and toothpaste also.
How about free vasectomies? – zero side effects.
@Matt Connolly: sign me up
@Matt Connolly: I was just thinking the same thing. They are ridiculously expensive!
@Ruth Corbally: but worth every cent.
@Matt Connolly: eh you can get a vaccectomy for free. My mate just got one after the birth of his third child.
@Matt Connolly: I find it strange that private heath insurance won’t pay for a vasectomy but will shell out thousands for fertility and pregnancy coverage.
@Alan Daly: not that strange. Men are second class citizens
@Matt Connolly: just pull out before anything happens. Who wants to live without their manhood intact.
@Matt Connolly: what about free sterilisation for women as well? Or how about first accepting some women want sterilisation?
I have been turned down for a consultation to discuss sterilisation, because the consultant thinks I’m too young, and will be available to talk when I come to my senses and decide to have children… Apparently children aren’t a choice??
BTW, I’m 30 and a virgin because I don’t want to get pregnant.. what are they expecting? That I’ll change my mind about not having children after over 20 years of feeling the same way?? Surely if I change my mind, I should wait until I’m sixty to ensure I give an equal amount of time and consideration to having children, as I have done to not having them?
Oh, and the consultant that refused me was in a private hospital, just in case anyone thinks I am expecting the taxpayers to pay for anything.
@Alan Daly: Irish life health do in fact pay for vasectomies on a number of their plans, both in clane general, and in a GP setting. So at least one insurer is fair to men.
@Mirabelle Stonegate: not even just to do with age, I’m in my 40s never wanted and had kids and not an option in Ireland (or country where I live), yet another procedure they send women to the UK for!
@oh i dunno: Men don’t need help with fertility too… Um okay.
@Mirabelle Stonegate: I had a coil fitted cos they wouldn’t sterilise me. I have two lovely children, but I never want another. Too young at 33? Ridiculous. I know my own mind.
@Gemma Shah: as a virgin, it would need to be done in a hospital. Insurance won’t cover the coil, so i can’t afford it. Implanon and virginity is my combo
For both.
@Arthur Pewty: absolutely!
Why does everything have to be free? If you are strapped for cash fair enough but I think most people would have enough cash to cover themselves.
@Stephen Brady: But maybe people should have to pay a doctor 60 quid just to get a six-month script.
@Stephen Brady: It doesnt stephen, but its a lot cheaper to pay for a condom than it is a council house. Use you nog lad.
@Tony Dowling: or monthly children’s allowance.
@Lisa Saputo: they do unless they are on a medical or gp card and in such circumstances they would be able to pay for it themselves
@Stephen Brady: Lots of us pay tonnes of tax and get no benefit back.
@Stephen Brady: even if it weren’t free, it should be more affordable. For me to get the coil, it would cost €60 to go to the GP for the initial meeting to discuss contraceptive options, €165 for the coil itself and another €110 to get it fitted. That’s not including the additional prescription meds to take before to make it easier to fit and prescription pain meds for after. You’re looking at the guts of €350! That’s not exactly accessible for quite a lot of people and yet it is a very good form of contraception.
So that is quite an investment as it is and that’s provided I don’t have any complications. If I do, it’s back to the GP, €60 each time and if that form of contraception turns out not to be right for me, it’s another €110 to get the coil removed and you get nothing back for what’s paid for it.
There are other forms of contraception but other than condoms, really every other form requires a GP which is average €55 a visit.
With very little support for women who find themselves pregnant and don’t want to be/can’t be for whatever reasons, like many EU countries, we should be doing more to help women (and men too) to prevent unwanted pregnancy and contraception and education is the best way to do that. It just doesn’t happen here.
@Tony Dowling: @Brendan McLaughlin: Do you actually think free contraception would reduce unwanted pregnancies? If so you don’t really know how people work
@Damon16: Yes they do, and they reduce the rate of abortions. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/10/05/free-contraceptives-reduce-abortions-unintended-pregnancies-full-stop/?utm_term=.5214ec854a89
Just one study, feel free to google! The Netherlands has had good results too.
Some people should be actively encouraged to use contraception with the use of financial incentives
YES
@Tony Tobin: but maybe – we should ask the holy Catholic church first¿!
@Tony Tobin:
Ask CHARLIE HAUGHEY.
Question…
“Should free contraception be introduced in Ireland and, if so, for whom?”
Yep…for both women and men.
.
@Patty Cullinane: Absolutely !!! Contraceptives should be free and easily available for both men and women.
No such thing as “free”, question is should people who don’t know or care about you pay for your fun times and compensate for your lack of responsibility. Presume many will say they should, presume many of those who think they should will also rail against the “patriarchy” (enter Veronica).
@Liam Doyle:
Fun times? Ah here!
Sex is a basic human need Liam. Us humans are just another species on this earth. Stop denying your sexual needs. Embrace them. You will be a more fulfilled person as a result.
@Charlie Farrell: I’m not denying myself anything, but neither do I expect you to fund my sex life. Why should I fund the sex lives of others?
@Liam Doyle: Come off it, you’d swear we were looking for free stripper money.
@Charlie Farrell: It’s actually not a basic human need. It’s a very strong human want, but not a need the way food is.
@Ania_on_coffee: Semantics Ania.
Facts are a person who is denied human touch is not fulfilled. Physical closeness with another warm human body. We all need it.
@Ania_on_coffee: Sex is a social tool predominantly, otherwise roughly 90% of sexual activity would not even exist or occur..
@Liam Doyle: you say… “question is should people who don’t know or care about you pay for your fun times….” etc.
Our taxes go toward the payment of Viagra and Cialis for ED for medical cards users. I don’t hear anyone complaining about that. Let’s stop paying for that with our taxes, and see what happens.
@Liam Doyle: We are all happy to hear that when/if you become a medical card recipient, and if you ever have a need for Viagra or Cialis…you will be more than happy to ‘fund your sex life’!
And say to hell with your medical card, and pay for either Viagra or Cialis out of your own pocket!
@Liam Doyle: you’d prefer to pay for more monthly children’s allowance? Gotcha.
@Deborah Behan: classic parasitic attitude – if you don’t give me this for free now then you’ll just have to give me something else for free later. I think it’s parents fault for not instilling a sense of pride in children, which also explains why parasitic families endure generationally.
@Ania_on_coffee: Correct. Some people just want it more than others.
@Cindy Crawford: Well now you’ve just made me sad. Sex is so great. I just want every one to enjoy it as much as I do I suppose.
@Liam Doyle: so…do you assume every woman on birth control is having “fun times”?
Here’s a boggling thought…I’m on birth control and still a virgin at 30 in order to 100% avoid pregnancy. The birth control is in case something happens beyond my control. So.. no “fun times” here
@Mirabelle Stonegate:
Ok Mirabelle. I’m deadly serious here. You should go and talk to someone about this because what you’re doing is very extreme. I don’t know if you have anxiety related issues but it’s definitely worth teasing this out with a professional. I wish you well.
@Charlie Farrell: I need to “talk to someone” because I never want kids and am doing everything I can to not have them, like a responsible person?
Do you know what I was told by “professionals” ie, gynaecologists and therapists? That I need to “see sense and have children”.
Why? Why should I do something I have never wanted to do? That it would be a bad idea to do, as it would lead to disability through severe loss of movement. Thing is, those professionals didn’t care about the fact that I have medical reasons for avoiding pregnancy. All they care about is that, regardless of the medical reasons, I don’t want kids.
Why is not wanting kids a bad thing? Why is doing everything in my power to prevent an unwanted pregnancy a bad thing?
@Mirabelle Stonegate:
I’m not referring to your decision to not have children. I’m referring to the lack of intimacy in your life. The physical and emotional intimacy of being close to another human being.
But anyway I’m bowing out now. You’re an adult who is capable of making your own decisions. I shouldn’t have even got involved. I wish you well again.
@Charlie Farrell: lack of intimacy is the price I have to pay for people refusing to take me seriously. I am seeking sterilisation, in order to be able to move forward, but the comments I mentioned above are the responses I get. I am looking at probably needing to travel in order to be taken seriously, despite the procedures being available here with insurance.
The way I look at it, the lack of intimacy you mention is preferable to risking disability, which has a high chance of happening if I do get pregnant.
@Mirabelle Stonegate: I agree with with Charlie and I think from reading your comments that you may need to talk to someone . It does beyond the fear of getting pregnant. Take care .
@Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: if I wanted children, the fear would be problematic. I don’t want children, so I avoid pregnancy at all costs.
Is it really wrong to fear something that will leave you with limited mobility, potentially forever? I face that if I become pregnant. Birth control isn’t 100% effective, so abstinence and avoidence ensure that pregnancy can’t reduce my mobility. I’ve experienced that reduced mobility, with agonising pain, already, temporarily. At one point, it went on for 6 months.
I take great care to avoid any triggers of my condition. I have had to give up hobbies because of it. My last flare up was two years ago. It was so painful that I didn’t notice a broken bone until I was shown an x-ray.
Still think my fear is unhealthy? Fear keeps me safe from triggering my condition. Any flare up could become permanent, meaning permanent agony and permanent loss of mobility.
And what do therapists say to this? See sense and have children… Because it makes so much sense to subject yourself to something you firstly, don’t want anyway, and secondly will leave you in a state where you can’t care for yourself, never mind anyone else, for an unknown amount of time.
@Mirabelle Stonegate: it’s not healthy when something takes contol of your life …
@Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: I didn’t exactly ask to develop my condition, but since it happened, a number of factors need to be controlled, including whether I get pregnant or not, or even which hand I use to flush a toilet. Yup, I have lost the use of a hand for a couple of days, just from flushing a toilet.
I’m trying to get sterilised so that pregnancy is one less trigger to worry about. But those that are in a position to help me refuse. Until I can get that, or until abortion is legal here, I can’t risk pregnancy. I have seen someone using three forms of birth control get pregnant despite that. Therefore, I don’t trust birth control for regular use. I defy odds far too often to be protected from pregnancy if I have sex regularly, with protection. So, I abstain and use the implant as a back up.
I live my life around my problem as best I can. Sure, I’ve had to give up well loved hobbies, but losing the use of my hands wasn’t worth it. Abstaining from sex isn’t much different.. it prevents pregnancy, which puts a lot of stress on the body, plus I wouldn’t be able to look after the resulting kid. If I hold a baby for more than 10minutes, I lose the use of my hands for a couple of days. This has been confirmed when I’ve held babies in the past.
Contraception is free in the UK – I am open to correction but don’t think it has helped greatly to cut down on unwanted pregnancies?
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/where-can-i-get-contraception/
@Sean: or STIs, riddled they are!
@Sean: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/18/how-uk-halved-teenage-pregnancy-rate-public-health-
There are some people in our country for whom contraception should be compulsory to stop them procreating
Just bring a license to have children.
People should apply, and be in position to take care of and raise and want a child.
Be in a financial and secure position capable of caring for a child, and be employed / have a sufficient income.
People incapable or unsuitable to have children should not be bringing them into the world, burdening the taxpayers, and society and using the child as a means to extract free money and accommodation from the state.
Decent hard working contributing and responsibe members of society should be encouraged and supported with avid children.
We would have a much better society, and better children.
Wont be popular – however it makes sense and would be hard to argue against.
@HelloGoogleTracking: “You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog. You need a license to drive a car. Hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they’ll let any be a father.” (From the movie Parenthood)”
@Fifty Shades of Sé:
Exactly!!! crazy isnt it?
And a “dog isnt just for christmas” campaigns fighting for the rights and lives of dogs and cats and hamsters.
However ending an unborn human life is “grand” – it is the mothers body (false) – it isn’t a human yet (false) – it is a zygote / foetus (just a term to describe the growth tase of human – false if used to dehumanise)
It should be mothers decision (false – unless you believe the mother should also have right to kill child after birth)
etc…no rational – illogical – emotive arguments based on achieving a conclusion rather than make sense.
@Fifty Shades of Sé:
A license would sort it all out – anyone breaking the law and having a child without a license has child removed and given to willing loving parents through adoption.
Never going to happen – but maybe eventually when society matures some more.
@HelloGoogleTracking: Totally agree with you, was going to post something like that myself, and as regards this Abortion issue, this referendum coming up, should only be decided by women, and exclude, any in Holy orders, such as nuns who have no intention of having children in the first place because of there decision in life,
Every Man, Couple should be held responsible for the children they bring into this world, and not just till they turn 18 and are expected to fend for themselves, but for the rest of their lives.
Free nappies for those who require them.
@Johnny Bellew: Great idea actually, it’s a fundamental thing and it’d help with poorer people raising kids. Good idea Johnny!
@Gav Quinn: I was being serious. After all it is the babies/children of today that will end up being the taxpayers that pay our state pensions. Fair is fair.
@Johnny Bellew: I believe Gav was serious too. Take a compliment when you get one.
@Johnny Bellew: I was being serious Johnny, I didn’t assume you were taking the piss. I have a go at you about womens’ rights cos you refuse to answer that, but when you’re right, you’re right. It’s a great idea, they cost a fortune and they’re a cost that add up very quickly.
@Gav Quinn: Fair enough, I was a bit rash there.
If you can’t afford condoms, you’re hardly going to be able to afford to bring up a child.
If it’s going to be free then it should be for both women and men.
@Search Eagle: I agree, both.
Of course they should be free to people who want to enjoy sex.
Invetro-fertilisation should also be free to people who are struggling to have children.
People should be free to have it on or have it off.
Have a great weekend all no matter what you choose.
@Brendan McLaughlin: people should be encouraged to have children in their 20′s. Western Europe is dying. It’s a lot more difficult to have children in your 30′s than 20′s
Probably a good idea but I can’t see the pharmaceutical companies supplying them without being paid.
For everyone!….
Not a chance, always have been and always will be against contraception,all forms of it. I’m not a church goer either. Has anyone read genesis 9:7 though?
@Cork Truck Driver: I’m halfway through it. Don’t go spoiling it on me!
@Cork Truck Driver:
Genesis 9:7
7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.”
Well without using condoms that’s obviously the Chlamydia bacterium they’re talking to.
Multiply away little bugs.
@Cork Truck Driver: if its not religious then what’s your reason for being against contraception?
@Maggie Elizabeth Walsh:
I think the standard reason offered by men is that bareback feels better. Am I right Mr truck driver from cork? You prefer au naturel?
@Charlie Farrell: that would just cover condoms though, he said he’s against all contraception. It’s an unusual point of view given the benefits of using protection.
@Charlie Farrell: That would be a roger Charlie.
@Maggie Elizabeth Walsh: It was how i was brought up to be honest. The family were very religious.Can’t teach an old dog new tricks. I speak as the child of someone who had an extra marital affair. My outlook on it,even as a non practising catholic is that each child is a unique gift from god.
@Cork Truck Driver: Thought so! Lol. I feel like I’ve gotten to know you so quickly. Haha.
@Charlie Farrell: I haven’t slept around since my teens, and even then i got the all clear at the STD clinic. The only woman in my life is my wife.
@Cork Truck Driver: C’mere how many siblings do you have? And how many kids do you have?
@Alan Pike: Ah jasus, tis a great read :D
@Charlie Farrell: All in all, between halves and fulls, i have 16 siblings that i know of, and i am soon to be a father of 6 myself in the coming weeks.
@Cork Truck Driver: Ah Jaysus man, ya gotta stop :). You’ll tip us into the sea Cork first if you keep reproducing like that.
@Cork Truck Driver: gifts can be handed back to God.Amen
@Are roo from Cork:
Ah that’s a nasty little comment Roo. Not necessary. We were having the craic here and you had to bring the mood down.
@Are roo from Cork: We need to bring back red thumbs down for you now.
@Cork Truck Driver: once your views are yours alone and you don’t think contraception should be banned then fair enough. Best of luck with the new arrival.
@Maggie Elizabeth Walsh: My views are purely personal. I wouldn’t be one of these people marching down the streets demanding it be banned, each individual has a free choice in relation to it. Thank you for your well wishes.
No. We should be encouraging people to have children younger. Fertility peaks in your early 20′s and goes down after that. Too many couples I know aren’t able to conceive and in your 30′s it’s to late. European fertility rates are too low to sustain our standard of living.
@prop joe: We should be encouraging people to have children when they’re in a position to afford them.
@Cindy Crawford: afford them? Home ownership is a serious issue. But can be solved since home ownership wasn’t an issue in the 60′s&70′s&80′s when there was little or no money on the country. However you are not going to be able to whind the clock back to your 20′s if you are older.
@prop joe: we should also only encourage people to have kids if they really want them!
I don’t, never have even as a child myself. Should I be encouraged to have a child I don’t want? Would you encourage me to have a dog I don’t want?
@Mirabelle Stonegate: good for you. But if you want a pension , hospitals paid for, society to function the birth rate has to be 2.01 on average per woman. Germany and eastern Europe is 1.3 births per woman, so there is going to be a dramatic demographic change which their society can not sustain. If you don’t want children good for you. But society can not function if everyone is childless.
@prop joe: I do agree that we need people to have children, but we shouldn’t be encouraging people to have them willie-nilly. They should want the children and be able to afford them.
Instead we have people doing the opposite. I have had countless people tell me I must have kids, regardless of whether I want them or not, and despite the fact that doing so would compromise my well being, and leave me unemployed and homeless. So, even if I wanted kids, it would be a bad idea to have them.
@Mirabelle Stonegate: it’s a shame people over step the boundaries and ask are you going to have children. Some people just need to mind their own business. Not having children is the right thing for a lot of people. However we as a society are putting women in danger by not educating ourselves on delaying having children. It has happened to a lot of couples I know they get the house are settled in their jobs then try to have kids. Then they find out they are too old and struggle to have children. Pushing house prices beyond the cost of working people will destroy society. In the 70′s 80′s one wage could raise a family, now two wages can’t. There is something seriously wrong some where.
@prop joe:
Joe if everyone is childless the human race will become extinct. There will be no society to worry about.
It’s so easy to forget we’re just another species on the earth.
Free contraception for both sexes, yes- it’s a no-brainer, given the divisiveness of unwanted pregnancy for Ireland in particular, but on a related topic let’s make female sanitary products free too; the very thought that people are penalised with the ‘pink tax’ for decades at a time is an insult to us all.
Well I think its about time the Gov provided free shaving foam and razors (Gillette obviously, not the cheap ones). I mean, men are penalized with the ‘facial hair tax’ from puberty until death, it’s so unjust. And don’t get me started on the vegan tax.
@Damon16: ffs being mankie for a shave is nothing like being stuck without the necessities at that time of the month-grow up!
@Michael Bride: Clearly tongue-in-cheek. What i’m getting at is the absurdity of the notion that the 30% of the population that actually work and pay taxes should have to be responsible for paying for free sanitary products, contraceptives etc. for everybody else. No! people should be responsible for themselves. Food is a necessity, if you don’t have enough food you will die. Should all food be free? how about electricity? gas? transport? internet is pretty essential in the modern age – should that be free too? Mobile phone plan? TV? Its a slippery slope. Just because person A works and supports his/herself does not mean person should be responsible – morally/financially – for everybody else. Cop on, grow-up and support yourself.
I don’t know the birth rates in South Africa, but when I lived there in my teens a lot of girls and boys went and collect from the locations. It was for what if I m at this party tonight least I have something. Instead of making a plan to get to a shop that was not local to your family.
If we’re going to subsidize safe sex why not subsidize other healthy things like healthy food? Let’s make healthy food like vegetables free as well.
@Bán: That could actually be a good idea depending on how it’s implemented.
Free??? Will the manufacturers not charge for them or will the taxpayer have to pay Either way it’s not free..
Another Harris deflection….. forget elderly on trolleys,forget children on trolleys, ignore incompetence among doctors recruited without scrutiny of qualifications,ignore shortage of nurses in our hospitals. Try not to think of shortage of ICU beds or staff. Don’t mention waiting lists….. look over here Simon will give you free condoms, he will frown as he does it so you know he is working very hard.
@marg fitzgerald: Absolutely agree – I was even surprised the pill was free on a medical card… we have higher medical priorities then giving the pill free to those whose income exceeds the medical card threshold, and it is not just the pill but the GP consultation and Pharmacist prescription costs too. Even those with a medical card pay a prescription fee for their potentially life saving medications… and, at time of writing, 68% want to give the pill free to everyone
There are several natural family planning APPs available now for women which are supposed to be as reliable as the pill and barrier methods. Natural Cycles is one of them. And it will cost nothing. Might not suit everyone but is proving very popular.
@Aine O Connor: I am laughing so hard right now. Oh no I’ve actually wet myself.
@Charlie Farrell:
Easy know you are not a woman then or you would know that the pill doesn’t suit everyone . It’s good to have options.
@Aine O Connor:
But I am a woman.
And that’s how I know that our libido sky rockets at our most fertile time. So there’s no way I’m gonna curtail sex to when I’m least fertile and my sex drive is low (which is how the natural method works).
I want the shaky leg, climax in two minutes, and climax again three minutes later type of sex. And I know when to get it.
Days 11-14. The best days of my life. Every month!
@Aine O Connor: Mmm – not quite http://www.thejournal.ie/birth-control-app-3255409-Feb2017/
Supposed to be and Actually are very different things. It’s effectively the same as the ol’ rhythm method of times and I am well aware of how many people I know that got pregnant using this highly unreliable method. It may suit some but it certainly wouldn’t suit the masses.
@Aine O Connor: Woops – wrong link.
This is the one I meant to share
https://globalnews.ca/news/3967648/contaceptive-app-unwanted-pregnancy/
It’s considered 93% effective. That’s 6 less than the pill claims and many other forms. I certainly am not willing to rely on a 7% margin that I could get pregnant.
@Aine O Connor: There’s a name for people who use this method-parents!
@Aine O Connor: a very old method known as the Ogino method but so few realiable that babies born thanks to ti are called in france “bebes oginos”. Better to use the pill, or an IUD or a condom …. however remember that pill and IUD do not protect from STD while condom does (well most of the time anyway)
Have to find d woman first.
the first question should be : what is the age of the youngest mother in Ireland? Knowing the answer (and I think most probably it is 14 – in UK 11) we know at what age the pill should start to be offered by the parents to their daughters because even if you as a mum or a dad think that your little angel is absolutely pure etc.. most probably she knows more about sex that you at the same age ! Having say that I would be delighted to learn that all the children around 12 in Ireland have been informed about sex and puberty .. my grandson was this week in Dublin and the DVD was pretty awesome : cristal clear informations perfectly adapted for the beginning of the puberty.
@Andre le Flohic: I can’t believe parenting like this exists. Rather than talking to your daughter and explaining that her sexuality is very special, some parent would give their daughter contraception, as in ‘don’t do it, but in case you do- use contraception’. It’s very easy to give contraception. It takes more hard work in raising a child.
Also statistically the least effective form of contraception,but don’t let the facts get between you and a good yarn
If everybody gets free contraception we’ll become extinct within a few generations. People in Ireland are not generally hot at Maths, but they’ve got to learn to multiply.
@Garreth Byrne: given how we treat our planet, that isn’t really a bad thing in the grand scheme of things.
Nothing is free, the poor tax payer will pick up the tab, as per usual!!!!
I use my face as a contraceptive method – its very effective unfortunately
Stop children’s allowance after 3 kids. Rest is like sky sports – have them if you can pay. Balance of cash saved by Government to offer free sterilisation of scobes.
I presume they would also provide extra small condoms for us guys too. I mean big big big hahahaha
From a medical point of view there are higher medical priorities then free contraception for all – particularly those who can afford to pay the consultation and prescription charges for the pill.
For those who cannot afford medical bills they may have a medical card to cover the cost of the consultation and prescription according to the Citizens Advice ( http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health_services/women_s_health/family_planning_services.html ) – so the question must be who needs free contraception and who can afford the bill and who gets it free already?
I do appreciate that here are a group of people who struggle to pay the doctor consultation fee and the prescription charges but I think an extension of the existing medical card would be more appropriate then giving it free to those who can well afford to pay.
Nothing is for free, the taxpayer will pick up the tab! As per usual!!
Hello everyone – you don’t actually catch pregnancy the same as you catch a cold !
Better than free abortions, which will happen soon enough.
Ladies and gentlemen if we are legally old enough to have sex then surely we are legally old enough too get a job so we can afford too buy our own contraception and if your too young too work and you can’t afford contraception then don’t be having sex. Problem solved.
GPs will never agree to this. In this country patients are forced into the GP for items that are over the counter in pharmacies across Europe.
Make the bar/ implant compulsory for all 12 year old girls, and can only be removed when in proven stable relationship , ends all crisis pregnancy.
@dec dunne: definitely not compulsory! Have it as an available option, sure, but not mandatory.
I was 27 before I first started birth control. Didn’t need it then, technically don’t need it now at 30 as I’m a virgin, but I wasn’t ready it start considering birth control until back then. Even now, it’s as a back up to abstinence until I can get sterilised
Yes. And E.D. meds
Use precise geolocation data. Actively scan device characteristics for identification. Store and/or access information on a device. Personalised advertising and content, advertising and content measurement, audience research and services development.
These cookies are necessary for the website to function and cannot be switched off in our systems. They are usually only set in response to actions made by you which amount to a request for services, such as setting your privacy preferences, logging in or filling in forms. You can set your browser to block or alert you about these cookies, but some parts of the site will not then work.
These cookies may be set through our site by our advertising partners. They may be used by those companies to build a profile of your interests and show you relevant adverts on other sites. They do not store directly personal information, but are based on uniquely identifying your browser and internet device. If you do not allow these cookies, you will experience less targeted advertising.
These cookies enable the website to provide enhanced functionality and personalisation. They may be set by us or by third party providers whose services we have added to our pages. If you do not allow these cookies then these services may not function properly.
These cookies allow us to count visits and traffic sources so we can measure and improve the performance of our site. They help us to know which pages are the most and least popular and see how visitors move around the site. All information these cookies collect is aggregated and therefore anonymous. If you do not allow these cookies we will not be able to monitor our performance.
Cookies, device or similar online identifiers (e.g. login-based identifiers, randomly assigned identifiers, network based identifiers) together with other information (e.g. browser type and information, language, screen size, supported technologies etc.) can be stored or read on your device to recognise it each time it connects to an app or to a website, for one or several of the purposes presented here.
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times an ad is presented to you).
Information about your activity on this service (such as forms you submit, content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (for example, information from your previous activity on this service and other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (that might include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present advertising that appears more relevant based on your possible interests by this and other entities.
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on your advertising profiles, which can reflect your activity on this service or other websites or apps (like the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects.
Information about your activity on this service (for instance, forms you submit, non-advertising content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (such as your previous activity on this service or other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (which might for example include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present content that appears more relevant based on your possible interests, such as by adapting the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find content that matches your interests.
Content presented to you on this service can be based on your content personalisation profiles, which can reflect your activity on this or other services (for instance, the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects. This can for example be used to adapt the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find (non-advertising) content that matches your interests.
Information regarding which advertising is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine how well an advert has worked for you or other users and whether the goals of the advertising were reached. For instance, whether you saw an ad, whether you clicked on it, whether it led you to buy a product or visit a website, etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of advertising campaigns.
Information regarding which content is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine whether the (non-advertising) content e.g. reached its intended audience and matched your interests. For instance, whether you read an article, watch a video, listen to a podcast or look at a product description, how long you spent on this service and the web pages you visit etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of (non-advertising) content that is shown to you.
Reports can be generated based on the combination of data sets (like user profiles, statistics, market research, analytics data) regarding your interactions and those of other users with advertising or (non-advertising) content to identify common characteristics (for instance, to determine which target audiences are more receptive to an ad campaign or to certain contents).
Information about your activity on this service, such as your interaction with ads or content, can be very helpful to improve products and services and to build new products and services based on user interactions, the type of audience, etc. This specific purpose does not include the development or improvement of user profiles and identifiers.
Content presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type, or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times a video or an article is presented to you).
With your acceptance, your precise location (within a radius of less than 500 metres) may be used in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
With your acceptance, certain characteristics specific to your device might be requested and used to distinguish it from other devices (such as the installed fonts or plugins, the resolution of your screen) in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Your data can be used to monitor for and prevent unusual and possibly fraudulent activity (for example, regarding advertising, ad clicks by bots), and ensure systems and processes work properly and securely. It can also be used to correct any problems you, the publisher or the advertiser may encounter in the delivery of content and ads and in your interaction with them.
Certain information (like an IP address or device capabilities) is used to ensure the technical compatibility of the content or advertising, and to facilitate the transmission of the content or ad to your device.
Information about your activity on this service may be matched and combined with other information relating to you and originating from various sources (for instance your activity on a separate online service, your use of a loyalty card in-store, or your answers to a survey), in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
have your say