They did before the Brexit – but no, what I would like to see is covering of the actual issues that caused the Brexit vote. The fact that two incomes are still not enough to afford a house. The fact the unemployment is climbing. The fact they people are saddled with austerity. The fact that entire communities are suffering while politicians say economies are strong.

Do I need to continue?

The irony being a lot of it directed against the Polish, while back in Poland immigrant Turks, Africans and Romanians are frequently beaten in the streets.

My Polish brother in-law was offered a job in the UK 3 months ago so he moved to England. He’s and engineer. A minibus collected him from where he was staying along with other Polish engineers, and brought them to the factory where he was to work.

The factory gates were being picketed by really angry men, who were hurling abuse, stones and bottles and the minibus. The new lads had no idea what was going on until it was explained to them.
The factory owners had made all the english members of staff redundant, on the premise that the business was closing. Turns out the owners had contacted agencies in the EU for qualified engineers willing to work for the minimum wage.

So the now out of work guys are furious, yes. Not the fault of the immigrant workers. But the media certainly is painting only one side of the picture. And this is why Britain voted to leave.

“That people” “The fact that unemployment”

Typo morning :)

I am sorry Padraig O Rsghaill, just because you cant afford a home, that is not the fault of the government. Do you propose that the government should lower the interest rate again, hand out mortgages like confetti to people who cant afford them just so the world can spiral back into another recession. But it will be okay because people would have homes? Even though they cant afford it. Like it or not, saving is hard but necessary and I dont think it is too much to ask people to save up at least 20% for a down payment on their prospective new homes.

Tina, do you believe that Ireland and the UK should have an open door policy to immigration, for all of the same reasons you listed?
Will there be enough houses, school places, hospital beds if 100,000′s decide to just turn up on our doorstep? Will that not cause out social systems to collapse?
Should immigrants live of the streets until they can save up for a deposit?
Because, as you said, it’s not the governments responsibility to house us…

Immigration never caused those problems. Do you know what you sound like? You sound like the Nazi party who blamed all of Germanys problems on the jews. It is a proven fact that immigrants are not only hard working, acdemic high achievers but they also contribute substantially to the economy. Or you have proven is you are prejudiced against immigrants.

Nations across Europe are sick and tired of being burdened with the cost of millions of illegals and immigrants…….. then told that they’re racists and xenophobes if they don’t embrace them and fund their comfort with their own hard-earned money.

Snotty elites and eurocrats commanding them to do this or say that or think whatever … all the while doing as they please. Brexit is going to the beginning of the end of the EU as we know it and amen to that!

@ Tina not sure where to begin with your incredibly ill-informed opinion.

The Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/08/uk-benefit-welfare-spending has a fascinating piece on house prices which deserves to be read and studied in detail. In London in 2013 the median house price had reached 300,000 while the median salary was 24,600. House prices are 12.2 x salary. That means it is in practice impossible for working people, without inherited wealth, to buy a house.

But the point is, that it should be equally impossible to rent a house. Landlords look for a rental return of approximately 6% of rental value. So that would put median rent in London at around 18,000 pa, which is a realistic figure. But nobody on a salary of 24,600 before tax can pay 18,000 pa in rent. So we should be at a stage where it is impossible for Londoners who have not inherited homes to live there at all.

Very little of the apparent gravity-defying power of the London property market is due to foreign buyers. Their major effect is very much concentrated on the top end of the market. Very few wealthy foreign buyers are purchasing semis in Plumstead or Acton. For prices to be this distorted from the potential of local buyers to pay would require literally hundreds of thousands of foreign purchasers in all segments of the market. They just do not exist.

No what is causing this incredible distortion is the conjunction of buy to let and state housing benefit. The state pays out 18 billion pounds a year in housing benefit, and the vast majority of that goes straight into the pockets of private landlords in the South East of England. State housing benefit underpins the entire system.

Immigration has caused huge problems Tina, and while the likes of your family come here and enjoy the benefits of western civilization while complaining about how nasty white people are for sympathy points at every turn, those same white people’s lifestyles have degraded while they support incomers whom it is becoming more and more apparent do not actually improve the countries they enter. Diversity and multiculturalism are the great lie of our time and if something isn’t done soon then we will see Europe blow up.

What’s the name of that company that made everyone redundant so? Not sure I believe that but will happily look into it

Immigration never caused those problems but it is a contributing factor. Take Dublin as an example, the large number of immigrants moving to Dublin to work for the likes of Google and Facebook or to study in UCD and Trinity are having an impact on Dublin’s incredible rise in rents.

This is just ills of capitalism tbh. But what has this to do with racism? Or are you trying to justify racist abuse? Because abusing innocent foreign national is not the way to go.

Tina

Godwin’s law (or Godwin’s rule of Nazi analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazism or Hitler approaches 1″[2][3]—​​that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Jesus chris Jason Culligan, if you have ever looked at the employment page for Google you would see that they require workers who speak more than two languages most of the time. That is not googles fault if you cant speak fluent French or Russian. The reason for the high rents is due to the inept attitude of the government not foreign nationals. I mean how many abandoned and derelict building can you see in Dublin alone.

And your point os Ziggy722, that your can refer to Wikipedia, the academic cornor stone of truth and knowledge? I’ll be sure to tell professors that next time I hand in my assignments.

While I am working on reply two, to you Tina, I suggest you read this article https://goo.gl/zzOVSP

It centres around the younger generations in the UK, below is a (small) excerpt

You manage to somehow get a job which isn’t on a zero hours contract, even if it still has no real relation to your degree, and you now work full time — £7 an hour, 39 hours a week, you lucky ducky, now you earn £14k! Your mum doesn’t really want to keep you in the house since you have a job of your own, so you have to move out.

You bring home about £1050 a month; your choices are to either rent a shoebox close to your work on your own for £550 a month plus bills (so really about £800 a month) or rent a room in someone’s former council house for £300 a month where you have very little legal protection, can be turfed out at a moment’s notice and your landlord can control your time not spent at work as much as they please because you’d rather be silent, bored and lonely than homeless.

You choose the latter because it’s cheaper and take care not to fart too loudly during the night and upset your landlord — too bad the house is a fair distance from your workplace, so that means you spend more or less the difference in rental costs in transport to and from your job, either by a shit bus or a shit train or an expensive-to-run car.

Meanwhile the government is talking about how it’ll give you a discount on buying your first home, just so long as you can pull thousands of pounds out for a deposit first. You can’t save any money because all your money goes to rent, food, bills, transport and the merest bit of leisure you can afford. You can’t afford a deposit. Even if you could, a house near you is £150,000 and rising. That’s a lot of money for someone earning £14,000 a year. People keep talking about salary multiples; you think about how many multiples of your salary £150,000 is and die a little inside.

Yeah, here is a fun fact for you, how many items in your house were made from foreign nationals Rob O’Brien?

My point is that people on the losing side of an argument, out of sheer desperation; usually invoke Godwins Law and inevitably bring up comparisons to Hitler and the Nazis.

Tina, read my comment again a few times and come back to me when you can quote exactly where I blamed immigrants or these companies for the housing crisis.

I said in clear and easy to understand English that they are undeniably a contributing factor but they are not the sole cause. Poor infrastructure, poor urban planning and an influx of workers seeking to work for big names in the city centre are all contributing factors.

Immigration is not the cause of high house prices, just as immigration is not the cause of high rents. Nor is immigration the cause of school place shortages or hospital overcrowding.

Bad planning is.

When bad planning delivers homes in the wrong places, or affordable homes in the commuter belt without proper access to public transport, or 1500 houses for young families in an area with only a yard full of prefabs for a school, of course you will have a problem.

It’s very easy then, for those in power, to redirect your anger at the immigrants, and blame those 10% extra people for the lack of infrastructure, as if it should have been ringfenced for people who by chance were born on this island and not somewhere else.

Don’t fall for it, demand better services, demand an end to planning corruption, demand more high-density residential in Dublin for the transient tech and finance workers (there will be more of the latter in the next few years, expect a few thousand back office fund administration jobs to move to Dublin).

Don’t give the government an easy out by blaming people others with jobs here, who want what you want, just because they are from another country originally.

Rónán, where did anyone blame immigrants for the housing crisis? The most I’ve seen is the factual point that the influx of foreign workers adds pressure to an already broken system.

Let’s have a look at the second part of your ridiculous foundation Tina.

Do you understand what the Ultimatum Theory is? You may have heard about it on the money show that is on Newstalk.

The game itself involves two people. The first person receives a sum of money and gets to propose how to divide it between the two people. The second person can do only one thing: accept or reject the proposal. If the second person accepts, then the money is divided between the two people as proposed.

But if the second person rejects the proposal, then neither person gets anything.

That is the crux of why the Brexit vote happened. The everyday person sees an unequal division of capital. They can see the big pie, but the only offer is a tiny slice of that pie and as a whole, they reject that unfair division. No matter how hard they try they cannot gain a larger slice.

Let’s have another look at a scenario. You are a general renting person in Ireland you are paying 1200 to 1500 for a standard 3×2 in the fishbowl suburbs. You know you are paying twice the mortgage value. You both work and earn a reasonable salary, 50 to 70kl per year. Now due to the banks screwing everyone they now ask you for a 20% deposit on a house that is already creeping above actually adjusted market value.

The deposit is going to cost you with fees charges and stamp in the vicinity of 50 to 80k

With half the population earning less than €24099 after tax a year, people are rightly angered at Ireland’s growing wage inequality – €504.00 Let’s multiply that by 2 €1080.00 per week and add in the obligatory two children.

According to the AA, if you are renting, and the average housing estate semi-detached in Swords is €1380 per month to rent, then that blows out to €16560 –

So we have €49908 for renters leaving €6255. That is (only) the cost of the rental payments.

So now, we have €6255/€120.28 per week left over for the entire year/week.

Now please tell me, Tina, how is this couple going to save 50 to 80k for a house.

You must know so well, not.

The law of supply and demand , this is basic economics Ronan. Agree with you about bad planning, no forward thinking whatsoever when it came to any sort of strategy.

Forget it Tina. You are arguing with the nouveau-right here. Anything that gets in their way, like facts, are dismissed as lefty media propaganda. Even tho’ all the things they were warned about last week if Brexit came to pass are actually now happening (economic turmoil, an increase in race and hate crimes, political upheaval etc). Even their “champion” Boris ducked out yesterday because he now knows what’s around the corner for Britain….economic ruin. Thankfully we are still a full member of the EU so these people’s voices above are just that…nothing more than voices from a comments section. They have no power in this country and never will.

Sorry I missed the cost analysis

The figure of €49.000 per year takes into account:

Mortgage and upkeep
Food
Utilities
Insurances
Motoring
General living expenses
Education
Childcare
Full list compiled below by the Irish Times

http://www.tworoundcorners.com/problem-average-irish-household-screwed/

Her*

Talking about immigration Nyantoon is (not) inherently racist. Australia has one of the single most multicultural populations in the world An economy that has grown for 25 years straight off of immigration and is one of the least racist countries. Yet it has strong requirements to gain entry. It takes in more immigrants than the UK and uses immigration policy to fundamentally increase the worth of the country both in labour and intellectually. Having immigration policy is not racist.

Oh is that what rob said? Don’t think you, read over his comment again and tell me its not disgusting..

Nyantoon, you are aware that you’re defending Tina who has made probably the most blatantly racist statements on the Journal right? Without needing to bend contexts, she openly blamed all white people for historical slavery (despite the fact that slavery existed among many races and cultures historically) and declared that it is impossible for a white person to ever feel oppression or discrimination.

My neighbour works for Google
Is well educated guy from Slovakia speaks French and German
He has family 2 kids
He pays car insurance, house rent, child care all work related taxes he shops in tesco and lidl he goes for holidays from Ireland abroad .
I know him last for years he never missed a day at work and you saying is his fault rent in Dublin is high
He pays probably much more taxes then you why should we blame him for house shortage because his from Slovakia?

It helps if you address the person you are talking to in your comments Arthur. Otherwise, there is little context to a point you could be trying to make. Just saying as it helps all around.

You right Padraig that comment was address to Jason he did mention Google workers in one of his comments thanks

Very mature of you to say Nyantoon. Unfortunately for you and the rest of generation snowflake a lot of people aren’t going to be shut up by childish buzzwords and hysterical outbursts.
Multiculturalism is the destruction of western civilizations, it weakens western identities and undermines local cultures. Small scale, well managed immigration is healthy for society, wholesale population replacement is genocide.
Africa for Africans.
Asia for Asians.
White countries for everyone. This is the narrative of today-along with the destruction of any vestige of pride or nationalist sentiment among white nations.
I’m not racist at all I’m just not afraid to be proud of my own people and what we have contributed to humanity.
As for Tina, she is constantly on here defending black people from any kind of responsibility for their actions while attacking whites, whom she doesn’t seem to have any gratitude towards for building the greatest civilizations on earth and then letting her live in it.

Okay not aware of that Jason, I certainly don’t hold those views…

From what I have heard from people I know that since the referendum they have been subjected to abuse that they never had before. People they work with asking when they are going home, people coming into their work place telling them to get out of the country. This is new. This is not something Irish people have experienced in a long time.

And Meehawwl, the screaming irony of you and people like you defending the EU which is nothing more than an authoritarian democratic black hole which represents on paper everything the left supposedly stand against is mind boggling.

Lol can you separate UK from Ireland? Last I checked Britain forced multiculted the world in a not so nice way, now they are doing it better. I think that’s a good thing. Be proud of your history, Am I stopping you by living here or something?

It was wrong when Britain did it and it’s still wrong now.
Your arguments are fallacy.

Ffs, so your telling me That me being here, hopefully marrying, I have a mixed race kid is that diluting your culture the same way the most of Europe did years ago, bring people over to human zoos for slavery etc, your bulshtting yourself.

The west saved countless of north Africa from an Arab genocide in recent times, from slavery.
My parents don’t work here because they have been damaged in everyway in north Africa, they can’t work, but their offspring do contribute.

The migrant crisis is more a about slavery then anything else Syrian war etc. People are unknowing been solder into slavery here if the don’t go through legal channels, those people need help.

I’m not trying to stop you being a racist Rob, just pointing it on. What you said you Tina is racist. How do you know she’s not dealing with racism here? You think she has it more cushy the Irish people? Really?

Jason Culligan you are malignant liar. So I am twisting the facts? When the British police have come out and said that reports of racist abuse have tripled since last week and you are the one denying it to be inaccurate. In fact many on here dont want it to be true becausee it disturbs their world view. You have made it a theme to blame all the woes of this country on immgrants and you dont think that is racist? And please can you please tell me when last you were abused because of the color of your skin, spat at, had foul derogatory remarks painted on your car and window?

Let me repeat myself.
Small scale highly selective and well managed intake of foreigners=good.
Large scale import of people with no checks or consideration for their cultural difference or attitude to host nation, changing demographic so that indigenous become a minority (see London) resulting in erasing the culture that created functioning society with culture whos society has failed = bad thing.
Regardless of your circumstances, good or bad, you have zero entitlement to enter our society. If you are allowed in, you should show due deference to us for providing you with a safe place to live and thrive.
You must integrate culturally. You may not campaign against us and bad mouth us at every turn as Tina does.
Now if your little feelings could take a back seat for one second so that your mind can digest that I am commenting on the larger scale of society and not on individual cases.

@Rob O Brien, Firstly I was born here in Ireland, as was my mother. I have family across the ENGLISH speaking world including Nigeria. Because of my families hard work, education, wealth and pure luck I happend to have been born in this part of the world. No one “lets” me live in. If you are going to insult me at least get your facts straignt.

Tina you are a vitriolic, racist without an ounce of gratitude. If things are so hard for black people why the hell do they continue to live in white countries? Your parasitic attitude is not only a disgrace in itself, but feeds into the narrative of actual racists therefore making life harder for honest immigrants who do contribute.
You should be ashamed of yourself, but i doubt you are capable of it.

Havnt you heard Rob, black people dont have to sit at the back no more. As a citizen who pays taxes and contributes to the wealth of this nation, I and many others have the right to campain against what we feel to be injustice.

Gratitude for what? Are you feeding me or paying my bills? Am i suppose to be grateful that you permit me and others to live here?

What you ‘feel’ means nothing.
What is factual is the only thing that matters.

Gratitude for providing a functioning society to live in, rather than the fail states that are your ancestral homeland. And yes you are supposed to be grateful we permit you to live here. Our ancestors earned this country and built it through their blood and sacrifice.
They bequeathed it to us.
It is our birth right and when we share it with you, we deserve some gratitude, not hateful, entitled vitriol.

now please show us this virtual now, being called a racist for being one doesn’t count

Rob O Brien i work, I pay college fees as do all my family. How is that not functioning? No, i would not feel grateful to you because you where born here? I was born here too so what. Am i suppose to act like Oliver Twist and say “please sir can i have some more”?

Wilful ignorance is not an effective form of debate.
Good luck.

“Jason Culligan you are malignant liar.”

Stay classy Tina, I’ve never lied about a single thing that you’ve said so far. You wrote word for word on the Journal that it is impossible for a person with white skin to experience racism and discrimination. That, Tina, is a racist remark. When I called you out on it, you never even apologised for the remarks and instead lashed out at every person who dared to point out your hypocrisy.

Where have I blamed the ‘woes’ of this country on immigrants? Also it’s obvious that you can’t even read my comments. I specifically said that these are all alleged incidents that are being reported, not 100% confirmed incidents with supporting evidence.

That’s baseless apologist rubbish Ziggy. Shame on you. Of course you’d never post that under your real name because you’re a coward.

Thanks for drawing attention to real issues Padraig….issues under direct control of the British government NOT the EU.

Interesting story Good Early. But why leave the EU because a local employers has no scruples. This incident has NOTHING to do with the EU and everything to do with poor labour protection and enforcement in the UK.

and it has nothing to do with the lack of accommodation, Jason… seriously!

Jason why should I apologise? For what? The cheek of you, again it is you who should be apologising to me for all your snide comments. Again have you ever been racially abused because of the color of you skin, had your car or home painted with racist remarks? If not dont you dare claim to be a victim of “racism”? Please share with the world the statistics on racism that affects white people till this very day.

Tina – You are a troll and I highly doubt you were born in Ireland . Besides to be a citizen by birth, one of your parents has to be of Irish decent.
See WE the people of Ireland and the inheritors of this island decided to limit who could become a citizen in our country in a referendum in 2004 , because a certain demographic from west africa were arriving pregnant – having kids and expecting citizenship and all its entitlements.
You are a guest in our country as you are not Irish – You are here by the grace of the Irish state and yes you are welcome :)

John Byrne I love you sweeping generalisations. So because Im black I cant be Irish? Well as I have said for the 100th time , my mother was born here, as was I. My parents studied here while paying massive amounts of fees. I like my siblings and family continue to pay our taxes. So please spare me with your condescending “inheritors” bull.

Never.

Exactly Will. This article is interesting. http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/britain-has-not-become-racist-overnight-brexit-eu/18511#.V3Y5VBko_qA Indeed, it now appears some of the reported ‘hate crimes’ are attacks on UKIP supporters etc. What is going on here is a subtle delegitimising of the Leave vote, using the psychological tool of racism to influence well meaning but somewhat naive younger voters. Ironically as documented above such voters are the ones who have most to lose because of globalisation.

Putting this down to media attention is wilfully ignorant. People are reporting these situations and there’s no denying that many reports are specifically referendum related.

The mainstream media is riddled with Left leaning sympathies.

I wonder how much the football had to do with any alleged attack. A lot more drunken people around and the English get very aggressive when their useless team are playing

Yeah, there’s queues of dunk football fans at the print shop getting their leaflets done…

And I’m sure you can prove that? Because all i see is just waffle coming from you.

Actually I can:

http://www.euronews.com/2016/06/28/racist-attacks-on-the-rise-since-brexit/

In that article the National Police Chiefs Council is quoted as saying that while reports of racist incidents have risen by 57% through one reporting mechanism, it should not be taken as a 57% rise in racist incidents exclusively. More than likely an increase in the willingness to report said alleged incidents.

“An increase in the willingness to report said alleged incidents”, so because people are more willing to report said abuse you think they are false. As a minority, i have never reported a racist incident even though i can count at least over 10 incidents of abuse, this year alone. But I know plenty of people who do and they arent doing this to inflate numbers. Did ever occur to you that inmigrants are reporting racist abuse because they are sick and tired of it?

Now you’re taking my words out of context Tina. As I’ve said, our justice system works off the presumption that allegations are not true until proven otherwise. To show what I mean, I can link to events in the US where 4 alleged racism incidents caused a principal of a university to step down, only for it to be proven later that 3 of the 4 incidents never even happened.

Allegations of racism, as I said, does not automatically mean that incidents actually happened nor does an increase of reports automatically mean that the number of actual proven incidents are increasing.

@Jason, you’re wasting your time. Tina is clearly a troll and writing crap to elicit a response. A waste of space, time and energy and beneath contempt

Right Jason….so by that reckoning these levels of racist crimes actually HAVE been happening all along, just not reported. Is that right? Because if it is, I’d recommend you have a good think about it.

You think he cares? Lol

You’re conferring one possible outcome which supports your position Meehawwl while there are more potential outcomes. Unfortunately a significant number of these reported incidences have no supporting evidence attached so it’s impossible to say with 100% certainty whether the alleged incidents ever happened.

On top of this many more incidents do go unreported. It’s impossible to say for certain then how many genuine incidents actually happen and whether the actual number is rising or dropping.

There is only one opinion allowed around here

Well said Mick.

Laughable isn’t it? They invaded the world and then they’re surprised when the world follows them home. Racists are rarely the world’s brightest and best

If only the British police took reports of Islamist rape gangs kidnapping and abusing little girls as seriously.

Lol you think they listen to anyone poor of any race? Yeah white men don’t rape, so not in their culture like. Fool.

@Nyantoon
Rule 14

Sorry not down with the anti immigrants lingo?

@Nyantoon

Rape is inherent to the culture of white men? Er… do you have evidence maybe that shows that white men are proportionally much more likely to rape people? Otherwise, that’s horsesh*t.

Oh because you have otherwise? Want to ban Pakistanis now do you? Maurice was stupid enough to point the finger about rape, wonder why he didn’t say “men”. Look up Irish rape stats, marital rape, child rape etc, compare that to when immigration then one can convince me.
Its human nature Malachi. You think every rape is reported? Joker. Sick vile joker. Deny all you want.

You made the claim, I don’t have to provide evidence to the contrary. You have to back up your claim. It’s called the burden of proof.

If you’re claiming white men rape more than other races, then cite your statistics. Otherwise you’re nothing other than a disgusting racist, sorry. For someone who has been railing against racists, rightfully, you don’t see the harm in making clearly bigoted statements without providing facts.

Who mentioned Pakistanis? That was you. Stop trying to inject things I didn’t say and actually defend your fragile prejudice against whites.

Its nothing to me, I have lived with racists of all hues and social regressives ie the catholic church. Other churches. Funny in a sad way.

Love the way you said ” social regressives ie the catholic church”

Was Islam too long of a word?