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ENDA KENNY has told the Dáil that the “Europe Train is leaving the station” on the first of January next year – and that it is imperative that Ireland be on board by ratifying the fiscal compact treaty.
Speaking during leaders’ questions in the Dáil this morning, Kenny told the technical group’s Joe Higgins that Ireland is not being bullied into ratifying the fiscal compact, but that Ireland would be left out of European decision making if it did not sign up.
In the special sitting conducted entirely through Irish, to mark Lá na Gaeilge in the Oireachtas, Kenny said the compact was not driving an “austerity agenda”, but a deal which hoped to return levels of exports and trade to where they had been in the 1990s.
Higgins had asked Kenny why Ireland was simultaneously sending Central Bank governor Patrick Honohan to seek a deal on the Anglo Irish Bank promissory note when it was also set to campaign in favour of austerity for the people of Ireland and Europe.
Higgins accused Kenny of signing off on an amended treaty creating a permanent European bailout fund, the European Stability Mechanism, which can only be accessed by countries accepting the fiscal compact, “in secret”.
He also queried whether the Dáil, when ratifying that amended treaty, could amend it to remove this requirement. ”Your ministers are saying it’s been decided that the ESM can’t be gotten without ratification,” he said. “Why did you accept this blackmail?”
Kenny retorted that because the fiscal compact was not an EU treaty, Ireland did not have the power to veto it or place any conditions on its approval.
Earlier during the special session, Kenny accused Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams of “going around the country lying about the government’s education policy”, when Adams suggested the government was seeking to close small schools.
“There won’t be a single school closed as a result of an order or policy from this government,” Kenny said, rebutting comments that the government was pursuing an anti-rural agenda.
The only reason why a local schooling setup might change, he said, was if local parents and community organisers came together and actively sought to set up a new institution.
Kenny also told the Dáil that new legislation for a state-backed loan scheme for small enterprises would be published in “five or six weeks”, after Micheál Martin suggested the government had failed in its pledge to increase credit for small companies.
Members on all sides welcomed the opportunity to converse in Irish for the session, though Joe Higgins complained that the Dáil appeared not to have enough sets of headphones to provide simultaneous translations for members without sufficient Irish.
Higgins remarked that the silence from some TDs on his comments about the fiscal compact suggested many of them did not understand the proceedings going on in front of them.
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Ah lads,does every church related story on this site have to include snide comments? the items were stolen and now they’re back where they belong. Lets leave it at that!
Yep. We can rest easier in our beds tonight…
Apart from the fact to some ( not many I agree) the church is a terrorist organisation.
When the Church has done something wrong,I’ll definitely criticize them. But in fairness,the objects were stolen from them and if the thieves are like the ones robbing old priests and parishioners in my area over the recent few months, they couldn’t give a damn about religion or what the Catholic Church has done to anyone in the past,out for themselves!
Well said Ann-Marie. They’re always very bold these lot. :-)
Oh they’re unbelievable, Réada! ;)
having had cancer i found that the power of prayer did work for me , believe me when you are at your lowest and you have someone to talk to being it here on earth or spiritually belief is a wonderful thing so please dont knock it till you have tried it.
Glad your doing better now Franco wish you the best.
Best of luck Franco!
oh dear oh dear did nine people just thumb down Francos very uplifting comment, what sort of deranged people are out there. my apologies on their behalf Franco. Best of luck
I wish you the best Franco but surely we should put our belief in science which is actually endeavouring every minute of the day to find a cure for these awful diseases..?
thanks tim you are right science during the day and prayer at night works wonders ..
While I don’t believe in religion and lash at the Roman Church at any opportunity where I think they deserve it I also think peoples beliefs should be respected and good news is scarce and welcome. I’m delighted that these historic items have been returned and hope your recovery franco will have the same happy outcome.
Tried it and all it did was harm
I hear you franco and wish you well.
All the best to you Franco…
Randy, you’re a star. Sittin’ there with a dangerous weapon and “will be killed” on the wall behind you. Class…
Watch the straw boater Michael! Looks a target from here!!!
Franco. Nothing wrong with prayer, whomever you pray to. The stillness won’t ever do harm. Best of luck.
The return of these relics “demonstrates once again the power of prayer”… Oh, so that’s what God was busy doing while those children were dying of AIDS in Africa.
It was the cops not the power of prayer. Also they should be sold and the money given to the poor. Think Jesus said give all your money to the poor. The Vatican doesn’t follow that teaching!!!
great news.
the nine thumbs down most be the peoples who stole the relic’s!!!!!!
I do love the 23 negative comments for Great News it does fuck up all those marketing people
The power of prayer . . . . And the good work of the gardai ! ! ! ! He forgot about them – they didn’t just stumble upon them after all the prayers ! !
my thoughts exactly Dylan; tho in fairness i was giving 100% of the credit to the Garda ;-)
I heard the tooth fairy also helped god get the gear back.
to add to the rest of the wealth the church has collected down through the ages just look underneath the Vatican
That’s good news and thanks to the work of the Gardai who got them back to the Abbey . Well done !
Whaaaaaaaaaaat?????? Do you mean we should start selling everything we have in the National Museum of Ireland and auction all of the gifts that have been provided by visiting Heads of State.
Why not raid all homes in the post Christmas period and confiscate anything that Santa gave so that it can be sold to help our National debt position.
Let’s grow up first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think that’s a great idea, sell all on Ireland’s art get say 1bn give 10m to living Irish artists to restock then use remaining 990m for hospitals and other vital needs. A painting has never helped a starving child
Hold on Jay! You reckon that if all the art in the museums and the Vatican, for that matter ,were sold the money would reach the mouths of starving children??
Mark, seeing as you wish to sell state assets to pay the bank debt I wonder why you don’t want to sell everything from the national Museum too. That will be next. They won’t stop until the whole island is sold off. Btw I wouldn’t sell them either. :)
I come from Holycross. I was raised there. To be honest I’m not at all religious but I do take pride in my home place. When those guys stole the relics they weren’t just stealing some old artefacts, they were stealing our name. The entire village and community is named Holycross after the relic. I actually “whooped” when I heard the news.
Most of us would allow the inaccurate and ignorant comments of Lennart just slide by but I’m not in that kind of mood tonight.
The Vatican State receives gifts from other States in exactly the same fashion as those we exchanged a short time with Her Majesty the Queen of England upon her State visit to Ireland.
Lennart suggests that this comprises wealth and the inference of mis misguided comment is that somehow all should be sold to the highest bidder.
Even better we could smelt all Down to base metals and precious stones to avoid anyone accusing us of behaving badly according to his pathetic standards.
abbey days :-)
How do we these are relics of the true cross ?
How dare you question authority!!! ;-) the True cross must have been 50ft tall and 25ft wide, going by the amount of true cross chips doing the rounds!!!
Much like the foundation of all major religions I imagine it’s based on nothing more than anecdotal ‘evidence’
PS……….The Vatican museum is at ground level and not beneath the Vatican……….!
Yes but it’s vast !
Once you walk through it you will never give another penny to “Peters Pence”.
They could raise billions selling just some of the collection once the recession is over.
There’s also the other part of the museums, the backstage bit showing all the props, old bibles and such, not so much art, more like gore and fetishism -teeth and fingers and even a bust of one of the saints made of gold formed around his actual skull. It’s weird how much the catholic version of god apparently loves gold and jewels though, surprising he didn’t make more of it if he’s such a fan
I think it is right that the Vatican retains and displays the artifacts of it’s history as it is right and proper that similar artifacts which form part of the rich history of this country also be retained and displayed in the abbeys and churches where they rightly belong.
Like it or not most works of art, music, architecture, sculpture etc. were commissioned and inspired by the belief in and the expression of the exuberance of religion. If we can only look upon religious practice and belief with the view that it should be broken down and it’s artifacts dispersed and devoured by maw of the commercial and economic greed so that the treasures of this country and others decorate the mantelpiece of some stockbroker or bond trader, oligarch or despot then we loose.
“They could raise billions selling just some of the collection once the recession is over.”
You’re forgetting about the big fat Swiss bank accounts and all the land they own. They preach about not being materialistic and then you see the Pope, Bishops, Cardinals all with more bling than 50 Cent. ??
Followers just accept this. “Ah sure, t’is fine, leave them alone.” ??
Will the holy stone of clontibret be returned?
If true prayer made god scratch his chin and make the thieves return the relic why did he make them steal it in the first place or was that the work of Satan taking advantage of god sleeping on the job?
You’ve got to try to get over this Cyril. You really do. I knew I’d see a comment from you here. :D
Reada when the religious decide to leave their wishful thinking out of our schools, politics and courts, when our media allows a sceptical analysis of religion itself then I will consider it time to call it a day. Unfortunately that will be an equally predictible outcome and as long as it is I aint going anywhere.
I was only teasing Cyril. It was late. Hadn’t hit the bottle or anything but maybe “la Luna” was having an effect. :-)
I suggest an experiment. Leave the valuables on a table in the middle of the church with the doors open. We all pray, really hard, that no-one comes and takes them. Let’s see the power of prayer in action. On yer knees, everybody!!
We’re already on our knees. Do you want us to prostrate ourselves?
yes please, Reada! Lots of prostrating, prostrating with prayer, face first onto the cold floor with a prayer on yer lips and a song of praise in yer heart! But…mostly prostrating!!!
Sorry Dave. I’ve stood up. Not on my knees so no chance! :-)
Have to say that I am always amazed at the incredible ignorance shown by many commentators when it comes to anything to do with religion. So many commentators know absolutely nothing whatsoever about what the Church teaches, about its history and about what it does in the world today. An example are the predictable comments about selling Church property to feed the poor (the Church is already one of the biggest charitable institutions in the world) or about the size of the cross given all of the relics (the relics are normally tiny fragments and there actually aren’t that many). It seems that a lot of people see fit to dismiss the Church (and worse, to dismiss ordinary believers) without ever having engaged with what the Church teaches at any serious level at all. (“Catholic” schooling in Ireland is a complete joke and does not constitute engagement with Catholicism by the way).
Is there scope for criticising aspects of the Church today? Yes, of course there are. And you will find no better critics of the clergy and bishops than Catholics who actually know what the Church actually teaches. But that criticism is nuanced and subtle and informed, unlike so much that we find online and in the media in general.
Of course, the Church in this country deserves a lot of the blame because of its lack of intellectual culture and general incompetence, especially when it comes to communication. It’s hard to blame people for ignorance when most of the clergy in this country has never done anything to correct that ignorance.
“Pope Benedict XVI condemned unbridled “pagan” passion for power, possessions and money as a modern-day plague Saturday as he led more than a quarter of a million Catholics in an outdoor Mass in Paris.”
But…this is from the Mr Fancy Pants in silk clothes with gold stitching who lives
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/09/15/vatican.jpg
Give me a good reason why I should not even question this.
The church really has aMASSsed their massive portfolio of property, gold bullion, priceless art and lots and lots of cash, through helping the poor. Is there an irony here?
My friend, I never said to shouldn’t question things. Catholics are not against questioning matters despite myths to the contrary. But questioning also implies being open to answers…
The Pope personally has no money. He lives in relatively humble apartments. In fact, when Pope John Paul II died, the entire apartment he lived in had to be gutted and refitted before the present pope moved in. The pipes leaked, only one ring on his cooker worked…It is well known that his underwear was repatched and repaired again and again to the point of falling apart. It is possible to live amidst splendour and still live with personal poverty and detachment.
The simple fact is that the Church is one of the most significant charitable organisations in the world (if not in fact the biggest). it is also possible to point to many many individual Catholics who have given up everything to serve the poor. If we are prepared to condemn the Church on the basis of what we perceive to be faults then we should also be prepared to praise it when we see manifestly good things. Unfortunately many people are either unaware of the good things or do not wish to see them.
The Church, strictly speaking, does not need its art and buildings. But the Church believes in beauty (you wouldn’t think it based on the church in Ireland though…). This beauty inspires us, and this inspiration is a good thing for the human spirit. If it was all sold off, it would feed poor for a while (who are already being fed by the Church by the way) and then what? Great works of art and beauty would be hoarded by private collectors and investors and humanity would be worse off.
By the way, there is a hostel for the homeless in the Vatican. Most people do not know this.
Also, the Vatican finances were depleted on various occasions in recent history because of the charity of the popes to the poor of Rome during various crises, specifically during WWII.
Wow!
I think we’ve really lost it…….can I get off the bus please………
piece of the cross mother of f@#$ do people really exist who believe that
Yawn.. Big diddy.
Sell the vulgar crap and compensate the raped, buggered and abused… End of.
@ almar. ……. Too little too late, read your history , 1 homeless shelter and giving less than 0.1 % of your annual income to charity will never make up for the horrors inflicted on ordinary Europeans over the last couple of thousand years, all that land accumulated from dying desperate folk hoping for entrance to heaven, the children of Ireland of which my grandmother was one horrifically abused her 2 sisters 1 in the mental asylum for the rest of her life because she kept showing any visitors that came to the convent the unmarked grave where the nuns put the body of her sister after they killed her, the teachings of the church are a complete and utter fallacy . The church is at the bottom of the dirt. I don’t care if the pope had holy knickers or not.
@ponythegringo – I am very sorry for your family’s sufferings. It is beyond doubt that there have been many corrupt people in the Church. They have more guilt than those outside the Church because they should have known better. The crimes of the clergy are indeed much worse than the crimes of others precisely because of the position that they hold.
That said, there are many inaccuracies in your post. One example is in relation to the homeless shelter. Yes. there is one in the Vatican (which is a very small piece of land).. But there are tens of thousands of them around the world that have been founded because of Christian teaching. And let us be clear about what that teaching is – it is Love. Unfortunately, many people, including many in the Church, do not follow that teaching. But there are still those who do, and they do a lot of good in the world.
Ireland was never really a Catholic country, at least not within the last few hundred years. Yes, it was a clerical country and a Jansenistic country, but they are aberrations of Catholicism. One of the downsides of this is that we tend to equate the behaviour of priests with the teachings of the Church. This is wrong because many priests behave in ways that are contrary to the teachings of the Church. But even though there are many who ignore them, those teachings about love remain, and they are still an inspiration to many.
From the Bible.
Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock.
- God
Psalm 137:9
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
- God
Deuteronomy 22:28
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.
- God
Leviticus 25
Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.
- God
Ezekiel 9:5
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.
- God
Exodus 21:7
There are more lovely quotes.
” many inaccuracies ” ? You mean 1 about the shelter? And let us be clear the teachings of the church are not about love , they are about fooling gullible people into parting with their money . Pre-Christian teachings were about love of everything on this planet . Christian teachings are all to do with the human ego and how believing in a disgustingly Fallic fairytale will make humans feel better about themselves while they rape the planet in pursuit of coin.
@ponythegringo: Yes, the Church is about love. I am sorry if you have never met anybody who has explained this to you before. The Church in Ireland is so decrepit and in need of reform that it is unsurprising that this message has never been received.
As for pre-Christian teachings and their love for everything? Well, I’m afraid you need to go back to your history books. What about the cruelty of the Romans? The cannibalism of numerous pagan tribes and civilisations? How well did the Aztecs love all of creation? The reality is that the civilisation that we take for granted – the basic human decency and regard for others – rests largely on Christian love. A review of the history of the early Christian period makes it clear that it was the love and the decency of the early Christians that helped them to grow in number so rapidly. And remember, they grew in number rapidly despite persecutions; despite the fact that being a Christian could mean death at the hands of Roman soldiers or death in the mouth of a lion! There was surely something compelling that caused an impoverished sect with no political or financial power to grow exponentially despite the huge risk of death. It is clear that Christians loved others and treated people better than the prevailing ethos of the pagan world. That is what Christianity is about.
Have there been many priests, bishops and even popes who have pursued the coin? Sure! There were many and there probably will be many in the future. But they are the minority. On the other hand there were (and still are!) many great Catholics who literally laid their lives down to serve others, and did so without ever calling attention to themselves. That is the message of Christianity when lived properly, not in the half hearted way in has generally been lived in this country.
Specifically, in terms of raping the planet in pursuit of money, well despite your proclamation to the contrary, there is nothing in Christian teaching that would make such people feel good about themselves.
When you think about it, it doesn’t make much sense to abandon the goodness of Jesus because of badness of Judas…
that Jesus guy must have been huge. All the bits of his cross put together would get you to the moon.
You are obviously a Jehovah’s witness or a Mormon
You will never convince me of your pro Christian nonsense . Now have the last word if you must……
I commend your superior theological intellect. Happy now?
Would these be considered class relics so?
I think we should all say a prayer.. Ok Journal folks… To make the bailout go away.
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