Indeed. And the “far-right” as he calls it, has just got 50% of the vote in the Austrian Presidential elections. How democratic of him to refuse to speak to the representative of half of the entire population!!

Very stupid and dangerous thing to do, instead of listening and debating with those on the far right, he has decided to shut them out. All this those is give the far right more ammo to recruit people into their political ideology. It’s ever repeating history at this stage.

Yes, why doesn’t Europe pursue a policy of appeasement with that Austrian-born far-right leader?

“It’s ever repeating history at this stage.”

Oh sweet irony.

The people of Austria have spoken,and they’ve voted Left,common sense prevails and the Far-Right danger has been averted. Now let us respect the will of the voters and their democratic decision.

You would say that!!!

Since when has the Muslim world been democratic?

Delighted he didn’t make it.

This is the backlash against the crazy left ideals

I don’t consider myself far anything but surely the influx of Muslims has to be addressed. Not because they are Muslim but because A, there isn’t enough work in Europe for Europeans, B, individual countries have had their national identities watered down enough with internal European immigration and other migrants already and C, there is no way of vetting who is being allowed in. None of that makes me far right or even on the right, it’s common sense. The more the EU refuses to listen the more the right will rise and brexit will be followed by other exits. To much nonsense

Does anyone else notice how no politician is ever just right wing? Any talk of right wing and they automatically say far-right or extreme-right, or any talk of not wanting millions of refugees also makes you extreme right.

Heck in THE most liberal country in the world 30% were polling for the freedom party so they were also far-right! I’ve lived there, 30% are not far right. Meanwhile in France, actual far-left protesters are burning the place left, right and centre and blocking people from travelling and attacking police, one protester boxed a female RT reporter in the side of the head. Yet they have never once been called far / extreme left.

Can we please have some balance

Nonsense as usual from you Michael. The Conservatives in the UK are right-wing,Republicans in the US are right-wing,nobody calls either far-right so less of the victimhood and paranoia.

Anton if you are going to vote far right you should own that rather than trying to blame the left Joe I’m afraid I have news for you. When one of your concerns is racial purity you are almost certainly far right

Kal – racial purity? Please stop.

Is that not what he is referring to when he said national identities were being watered down Scarr?

Soon as they jailed David Iriving for thought crimes, I lost all respect for Austria and I’m glad now the ruling class there are getting a kick in the hole.

Hofer brands all Islamic refugees as rapists and IS supporters… if the shoe fits…

Kal – I stand to be corrected, but no, I don’t think so. National identity =\= national ethnicity. I would imagine he’s referring to the rapid importation of an alien, and some would argue, incompatible, inflexible and or contradictory culture, inevitably changes the societal make-up. Not necessarily for the better.

Please provide backup for that Midir, I don’t doubt you I just can’t find it.

@Tariq, apologies I should have said in the European context. It’s a hangover from WWII, in the UK and the US they never felt the full force of WWII so it isn’t such a dirty word. That French example makes the hypocrisy clear as day

Midir – source or GTFO

Scarr – Joe referred to identies being watered down through “internal European immigration and other migrants already”. Seems like a general statement on immigration to me rather than the specific concerns you have interpreted

Kal – maybe, but I would still take that to be akin to a statement on islamization of Europe (a genuine concern IMO) rather than grubby foreigners coming over here and being foreign (a moronic opinion) – maybe Joe will clarify.

Sorry Michael and Scarr, I’m not sure I can provide a direct source for it, I saw him on BBC news last night claiming that he believes that it is right to protect his country from the influx of immigrant rapists and extremists. It’s possible that he only said it last night so it might pop up online later today.

Kal I referred to national identities not individual identities. Don’t be twisting my words

Feel free to expand Joe. How have national identities been watered down in Europe?

I’ll tell you very simply, I can’t give you percentages as I’m at work and limited time, check a census doe Ireland from the 80′s, check the amount of people living in Ireland not born in Ireland, now repeat the same thing for 2016 census, that’s what I mean. No doubt many have enriched Ireland with their culture BUT we are now in a place for the reasons I listed earlier where we don’t need and shouldn’t accept more migrants. That’s what I mean. Now you answer me a straight question, when would you draw the line and say enough ?

In 2012 about 17% of the Irish population was foreign born. Many are highly educated and have skills that we need. Of course there should be limits on the number. What makes you think there isn’t? In 2015 about 30,000 non-EU nationals arrived in Ireland and 18, 000 left. Hardly seems unsustainable

Kal, “Racial purity” ? Another agenda-driven term. Would that be a race other than Human, some sort of mongrelised Human…half man – half biscuit? We are all part of the Human race, not some left-hijacked quasi-race.
I despair.

Michael, well, that’s a first…and quite insulting. The UK never felt the full effect of WWII. Many thousands of corpses might indicate differently.

I agree race is a social construction Joseph. Not sure I understand what ‘left hijacked quasi race’ means though. Are you suggesting there has never been a call for racial purity from some groups?

@Joseph, and many millions in Europe do not.

The UK and US were not invaded, I’m not saying it was a walk in the park for them but to suggest that civilians of the UK and US suffered the same as those of Central Europe is blatantly false!

Clever Jake I strongly suggest a name change

Micheal, a matter of degree. Whether civilians died from being bombed on a nightly basis…London, Manchester, Coventry et al, or from injuries received, disease, lack of food, bombing of Germany etc…they still died. Yes, the numbers were greater in Europe but there is the matter of degree.

@Joseph,’Agenda-driven term’ because I don’t agree with it. Jesus wept.

It’s not because he doesn’t agree with it, Tariq.

The claim that somehow people who are anti mass uncontrolled immigration are looking for “racial purity” is nonsense of the highest degree.

It’s an agenda driven term because it is trying to brand those who disagree with an ideological position as racist.

Except Malachi I used the term to refer to specific comments by one commenter . To suggest that racial purity has not been a preference of some people past and present seems like nonsense of the highest degree

Yeah, you referred to Joe’s comment, where he said he opposed the influx of refugees. He said absolutely nothing about race and you injected it in there for some reason.

Can you explain why you brought race into the discussion? It’s totally irrelevant and it seems to be a red herring to try and brand opposing viewpoints.

If you read back you’ll see I explained that Joe referred to identies being watered down through “internal European immigration and other migrants already”. This is clearly broader than refugees only stance that you are referring to. He has since stated he was referring to national identities not individual identities but that there are enough foreigners in the country. Still not sure how that doesn’t relate to race/ethnicity /nationality. Maybe you can enlighten me?

Migrants/refugees can be of any race. How do you know he’s not opposed to an influx of White Americans into the EU?

He literally said nothing about race. National identity is nothing to do with race either.

“National identity is one’s identity or sense of belonging to one state or to one nation. It is the sense of a nation as a cohesive whole, as represented by distinctive traditions, culture, language and politics.”

I am still not getting how you jumped to race from any of what anyone on this thread has said. Race wasn’t mentioned once and yet you accuse someone of being a racial purist? Is this not infantile to the extreme?

The suggestion being that someone born in a different country can never sufficiently integrate into a nation that you would hold that national identity. And that their mere presence reduces the national identity of the country as a whole. That is a drive to purity.

Thank you Malachi, some people are determined to twist things to suit their own agenda. It shows how weak their argument is, when they can’t argue with what your saying they twist it into something else so they can find fault.

Rebellion and Revenge will scorch the whole of this Monster European Onion,through no fault of its citizens.This Muslim Invasion of Europe and the Treason by nearly ALL of the political leaders ,who fall to their feet of the US masters. Peter sutherland and his Bilderberg Terrorists reign for now.

KalEll, I noticed you just used “purity” rather than your “racial purity” from earlier. Are you going to accept that race has nothing to do with the conversation? Can we move on after that baseline has been established?

Immigrants that ‘dilute’ national identity can be of any race. So race is irrelevant. I will never understand why race seems to be brought up so often, out of the blue, by proponents of mass immigration.

It’s brought up for one reason, to try and silence your argument by inferring if you are against mass immigration you are a racist or right wing psycho.

Everyone is a Racist,ban Free Speech ,thats the plan guys.

Malachi I can accept race is not necessarily the defining element of national identity in all cases. We can refer to national purity if you prefer. The ultimate aim being the supposed ‘preservation’ of a people. The view expressed by Joe can be as dangerous as superiority based specifically on race

Again, you’ve misrepresented the argument. Nowhere in the thread did I see the idea of the preservation of a ‘people’.

What’s being discussed is the erosion of national identity, which going by the definition I gave earlier has nothing to do with the preservation of certain people.

If immigrants are willing to integrate, they are not eroding the national identity of a country and thus are welcomed (for the most part, within considerate economic boundaries). The problem Europe is facing is the clear lack of integration from many of the refugees (or general migrants), which is clearly what Joe was referring to.

He referred to the increase in the number of foreign born people in the country as having watered down national identity. Maybe if Joe could confirm what aspects of Irish national identity have been eroded we can ensure there is no misrepresentation of his views

Superiority ?? More words coming from you alone kal, I try not to look up or down to no man, we are all human. Doesn’t mean I have to be stupid. I made my points in my 1st post, you ignored some and twisted others, I won’t be going any further with you on this as it is clear you are closed minded and desperate to turn people’s comments into something they are not.

Not really. I’ve asked you to confirm what you meant by watering down of national identity by increasing number of foreign born persons in the country. If I had a closed mind I wouldn’t bother asking

It has been explained enough times for you, none so deaf as those that don’t want to hear. From the get go you’ve twisted things I’ve said, added to them, made weird conclusions, take a few deep breaths and read it all again, because I’m not repeating myself

I’ve read it all again. You didn’t explain what you mean by an increase in foreign born residents watering down national identity. Is it tradition, culture, language or politics that has been watered down?

The whole social fabric, which appears quite good at the moment. Doesn’t make sense to contribute with large scale immigration and end up with the problems parts of the UK, France, etc etc have experienced and can’t deal with. Look at most large cities and towns in the UK, from Lecister to Burnley to London. Your idea of keep going until we face the same issues is plain dumb. I’m really not explaining any more as I don’t believe anyone can’t really understand what I’m saying, you appear disingenuous

Contribute = continue

Fair enough. I don’t agree with your estimation of problems that exist (I live in the UK) or their source but I’ll accept I misinterpreted your initial statements. Apologies and thanks for providing clarity.

@ ktsiwot

This is Austria – the Far Right were the second largest party and were led into Gov by Haider back in 2000.

They have a history of voting far right.

Brinster, pointless comparison…we don’t live in those places. More whataboutery masquerading as debate.

Brinster
Your point is correct and If we go back farther you will discover Hitler was Austrian. It has a history, however the trend is worldwide Trump in USA, Le Pen in France, Holland, Poland, Hungary all these countries have increased there far right vote by multiples over the last few years, Even look at Denmark a go to country for a socialist model is developing a popular hard right.

Trump is not far right – at least not in comparison to Cruz, whom he defeated.

Eastern Europe has always had right wing tendencies. There is an increase now but given an Iron Curtain was in place up to roughly 1990, it is only in their very recent history that there has been the opportunity to judge. Le Pen has taken over from her father – again a long history there.

The problem is that far too many people use “far right” as a synonym for “anti immigration/believe greater immigration control is required”.

Far right is far more about free markets, authoritarian power centralization and nationalism than immigration control.

Those points are correct and i suppose another aspect is where does far right cross over to fascism. It generally happens in a time of fear, uncertainty and where there is a vacuum in the political process. We are moving to that point.
I would not compare a right wing Tory to fascism however many were that way inclined in the 30s.
The current movement is rising from the streets and gaining a euro wide following and the main premises it is coming from is immigration.
If the lefts ideal of a utopia (Denmark) can provide a strong far right wing party, I seem immigration as the main driver. The issue of immigration has not been discussed not to mention addressed and until this happens in volatile political environment expect to see the far right expand.

Maybe Obama can sort the mess out

https://i.imgsafe.org/0229a16.jpg

Is this the ancestors “beautiful” world that has been at war with itself for most of the last three centuries at the cost of millions of lives?

The problem with suggesting that Third World nations fix themselves is that we First World nations were the ones that broke them to begin with, and then kept them broken because it suits our interests to have a supply of cheap labour, not to mention all the natural resources we would have to pay for if they got their act together. To slightly paraphrase Ambalavaner Sivanandan, “they are here because we are there.”

@Midir,
Rubbish, Ireland never had an empire.

Ireland is a third world country along with Switzerland, Sweden etc… You must mean the developed world.

Eamon, Ireland as a nation might not be directly responsible for the actions of Britain (of which Ireland was a part during the colonial times) or the other European powers, but we benefit from the domination of the Third World countries just the same.

@Midir,
You couldn’t be more wrong, we give the Third World €670 million aid every year, as well as taking in tens of thousands of their migrants.

Shane, you are working with one particular definition of Third World as being those not aligned with either NATO or Communist countries. The definition which I am working with is the Third World as periphery countries which are dominated by the core countries of the First World. Calling it the developed world implies that we are somehow ahead on a linear path of development. Both terms admittedly have their problems.

@ Right Human – well said. This is possibly one of the biggest cons ever instigated by the governments / media against their own people in the history of time.

Scarr, I’m not sure that I would call RT News a credible source. They are funded by the Russian government and has been called a propaganda outlet for the Russian foreign policy by news reporters,  including former RT reporters. They have also been accused of spreading disinformation, Ofcom has repeatedly found RT to have breached rules on impartiality, and of broadcasting “materially misleading” content.

@ Midir – i would definitely not call the BBC, Irishtimes, CNN and NYTimes credible, neutral sources of information about this migration farce / con job.

Much of the aid provided is to the corrupt governments of those countries and even the aid that is distributed directly to the people can often have a detrimental effect on local producers. We (the First World, Developed World, Western World, or whatever you want to call it) have made a mess of Africa, now we are suffering the consequences of our actions.

Fred, I agree that most, if not all, news outlets are low on credibility. That does not make RT News more credible. To put it into perspective, just because CNN is biased does not mean that Fox is trustworthy. I try to judge things for myself based on the information I have available.

@Midir Ireland has never had a hand in what Britain did with the Empire or Europe .To suggest that is rubbish .The only reason Ireland takes in these migrants is beacuse of the Eu .

“When over 5 billion people are in poverty and start flooding to Europe”

66% of the global population are coming to Europe are they? I hear it’s 200 billion. And 300 billion of them are Muslim extremists! Just think, 400 billion immigrants! How is our welfare system supposed to cope with 500 billion people?!

Very well said!!!

@JayK,
Your figures all wrong, you don’t have a clue.

You say that now Eamon. Just wait until 600 billion immigrants are knocking on your door.

Midir is wrong in blaming Ireland for the ME mess but very right in blaming the West for it’s current state. Facts are facts. If you build a treehouse in a forest and mess with the wasp’s nest already in the tree, and every tree in that wood has it’s own nest, well, you’re going to be stung.

John, I don’t blame Ireland, I blame the western culture of which Ireland is a part. When I say “we” caused the pronlems, I’m not talking along nationalist boarders, I’m talking about cultural borders. That Ireland didn’t directly create the problems in Africa does not stop us from benefiting from them.

Midir, It’s not up to us to sort out Africa – they have to do it themselves. I’m not exactly sure what “cultural borders” Ireland has helped create that makes us somehow culpable for Africa’s problems?

I consider myself to be far left, I believe more in collective rights than individual ones, I believe in the nationalisation of resources and industry to benefit the public rather than the capitalist class. And I have never claimed that the refugees were from Syria, all of the arguments I have made have been about Africa. I also have not read a single comment from anyone here claiming that they are Syrian. Your suggestion that the left claims this has no merit.

It’s actually Agence France Presse. But don’t let facts worry you.

The media as well as the politicians are part of the same globalist “club”. Bilderberg guest list would explain a surprising synergy between the stance of “traditional/non populist/not far right” politicians and “mainstream” journalists. It would also explain a large gap between official policies and views of the silent majority, also called common sense.

You should check out the Rubin report podcast.

So you believe that Turkey should keep all the refugees? Does their infrastructure have some power to deal with them that ours doesn’t?

Midir, 80% of the migrants are not genuine refugees. Only one in 5 are Syrian, the rest are economic migrants using a crises to ride coattail into Europe.

I don’t think Turkey should take all the refugees but it makes more sense to support most of these refugees closer to their home in well funded, supplied and organised UN camps rather than spread them out throughout Europe. It makes economic sense as the cost to support a refugee in a country with a lower cost of living will obviously be less. Then when’s it’s safe for them to return home they can do so more easily.

I love my country and want to rid it of the last vestiges of a barbarism that began in the Middle East in the first century, but I don’t consider myself right-wing at all – or indeed even particularly left-wing.

Where did Hitler spend the vast majority of his life? What nation did he fight for during WW2? Anyone who studies Hitler knows that he despised Zurich and was ashamed of his Austrian heritage.

Anyone who studies geography knows that Zurich is in Switzerland, not Austria

@j j riordan

Hitler was born in Austria, but of course Hitler was left-wing, so what do you think he is referring to ?

I meant Vienna obviously, one of the dangers of posting comments this early in the morning. I just finished a biography on Hitler and what’s clear is that he hated Austria with a passion.

I bet you did. Larry doesn’t know Hitler was Austrian,Jason thinks Zurich is in Austria,that’s what happens when you get your information from far-right blogs.

Jason I’m no fan of Zurich either. You should have seen the quote they gave me for car insurance. PS. Zurich isn’t in Austria.

Refresh button, lads. Point has been clarified almost 30 mins ago. :D