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THE SEANAD REFERENDUM was defeated today, a result that had not been indicated by any previous opinion polls but had been flagged on the doorsteps.
It was a tight count with the margins close in many constituencies. But Dublin – and much of the east coast – voted overwhelming against the proposed amendment to abolish Ireland’s second house.
Turnout at 39 per cent was low, but better than expected. We brought the results to you as they came in. Here’s how it went down.
5 Oct 2013
9:12AM
Good morning and welcome to our referendum count liveblog as the ballot boxes are open across the country. It’s Hugh O’Connell here and together with Daragh Brophy and Rónán Duffy we’ll be bringing all the latest.
There were reports last night of some considerable confusion caused by the two ballot papers. Our own Daragh Brophy said people were confused by the different colours and which paper was which when he went to his polling station.
Here’s what voters were faced with when they went to cast their vote last night:
One Labour TD, Dublin South East’s Kevin Humphreys, is calling it:
5 Oct 2013
9:23AM
Charlie Flanagan, the Fine Gael chairman, is on Morning Ireland and says that “we’ve really got to go back to the drawing board” on running referenda saying voters were confused when he was out and about yesterday.
“There was an element of confusion and I think the element of confusion is borne out in the wording of the ballot paper, ” he says, adding: “We don’t really simplify things that are straight-forward”.
Despite all this he then says it’s not a time yet for post mortems but does call for a permanent Referendum Commission to be established. Incidentally Environment Minister Phil Hogan said this week he hopes to do that at some point in this government’s term.
5 Oct 2013
9:24AM
Also on Morning Ireland, Sinn Féin Senator David Cullinane says that the whole referendum campaign was a “shambles”. No surprise there.
5 Oct 2013
9:29AM
Labour’s Meath East TD Dominic Hannigan is also on Morning Ireland and says in relation to Kevin Humphrey’s tweet that “if Kevin says it’s a No in Dublin South East, then its a No in Dublin South East”.
He says he was meeting No voters most of the day yesterday. But what kind of company does he keep?
5 Oct 2013
9:30AM
By the way some of you are already querying if its referenda or referendums when it comes to the plural of referendum. Our former colleague Gavan Reilly explains this very well indeed.
5 Oct 2013
9:32AM
“I think an awful lot of political parties in Leinster House were surprised when the Taoiseach proceeded with this referendum,” says Fine Gael TD Simon Harris on Morning Ireland. He’s probably not wrong.
5 Oct 2013
9:40AM
Early tallies indicate that it’s close and in Dublin there are lots of tallies which indicate a No vote there but it’s still too early to be definitive about anything.
Lots of chat about Dublin but here’s what Fianna Fáil activist Ken Curtin is tweeting from Cork:
5 Oct 2013
9:50AM
Here’s our report on the confusion caused by the ballot papers.
5 Oct 2013
9:53AM
As you may know Donegal is traditionally a part of the country that rejects whatever the government proposes. We’ve just heard our first reports from there on RTÉ which indicate it’s a No in Letterkenny to Seanad abolition but a “slight Yes” to the Court of Appeal referendum.
So what do ye make of the confusion caused by the ballot papers? It’s been pretty active in the comments so far this morning and this is a flavour of what’s being said:
5 Oct 2013
10:06AM
“Counting is under way in the Republic of Ireland on referendums to decide the fate of the Irish Senate, Seanad Éireann,” says this brief BBC News report this morning. We’ll have a look around to see if there is any other international coverage.
So at just after 10am, here’s what we know: Early tallies in Dublin indicate that the Seanad abolition referendum will be rejected in Dublin, but elsewhere it’s looking like a Yes vote.
But it’s still too early to call. It’s tight, that’s what we can say for sure.
5 Oct 2013
10:11AM
“Mary actually raises a fair point,” Fine Gael TD Simon Harris agrees with Mary ‘Mammy’ O’Rourke on RTÉ One’s coverage of the referendum count in a rare outbreak of bipartisanship. They’re talking about the confusing ballot papers. Everyone on the panel appears to agree that the ballot papers are far too confusing altogether.
Whatever about Mark Daly’s tweet earlier here’s Fine Gael director of elections Richard Bruton doing a tally in the RDS this morning:
Pic: Sam Boal/Photocall Ireland
5 Oct 2013
10:17AM
“It’s very early days,” says Richard Bruton on RTÉ One. Asked if there appeared to be a lot of No votes in government strongholds, Bruton says: “I don’t think you can detect patterns at this stage.”
If you’re interested in what’s happening in Wicklow, Stephen Kearon is keeping a live Google Doc right here. A very slight Yes there with a fifth of the boxes opened.
“I don’t think anyone can call the thing yet, and certainly not on Twitter,” says junior health minister Alex White on Morning Ireland saying it’s 55-45 No in Dublin South. “It seems to me to be trending No,” he says, at least in Dublin anyway.
5 Oct 2013
10:35AM
Alex White was pretty despondent on Morning Ireland there. He cautioned that it is tight but appeared to admit the Seanad abolition referendum has been lost in Dublin at the very least.
5 Oct 2013
10:35AM
On turnout, early tallies appear to indicate that it will exceed the 33 per cent that came out for the Children’s referendum last November.
Sinn Féin TD Mary Lou McDonald says “the Nos have it” in her own constituency of Dublin Central. She says it was a big mistake for Enda Kenny not to debate the Seanad referendum and to “rush this issue” and not put it the Constitutional Convention.
5 Oct 2013
10:43AM
McDonald says that in the event of a No vote, it would “be a disaster for all of us” if the Seanad is not reformed.
“I would call on the Taiseach to very smartly, without delay to see out the precise manner in which that reform happen,” she says.
She says the matter should be referred to the Constitutional Convention. If it’s a No, that is.
5 Oct 2013
10:46AM
On Morning Ireland, Fine Gael TD and deputy director of elections Regina Doherty says it is 55 to 45 per cent No in Meath East. “I wouldn’t be as definitive as Mary Lou [McDonald] is about an overall No,” she says.
5 Oct 2013
10:49AM
As of now it’s looking like 55 – 45 in favour of Yes vote in Mayo, local Fianna Fáil TD Dara Calleary tells Morning Ireland.
So why is it so close when opinion polls showed a clear lead for the Yes? Well, because there were still a lot of undecideds as of late last week.
An Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI that was published on Monday and carried out late last week showed that over a fifth of voters were undecided. And Don’t Knows tend to swing to No, as appears to have happened.
5 Oct 2013
11:02AM
At 11am it looks like Dublin will reject abolition of the Seanad but it’s still too close to call across the rest of the country and as a result we cannot say definitively which way it’s going to go.
Here are a couple of more pictures from the count at the RDS courtesy of Photocall Ireland:
5 Oct 2013
11:18AM
On RTÉ One, Alex White has conceded in Dublin but is not yet sure about the rest of the country.
5 Oct 2013
11:19AM
Hugh O’Connell signing off now to head down to Dublin Castle. My colleague Rónán Duffy will take over liveblogging duties. Hope to bring you coverage from the Central Count Centre a little later.
5 Oct 2013
11:26AM
Good morning, Rónán Duffy here. Well it’s looking far tighter than many predicted. We’re hoping for a result some time in the late afternoon according to those down in the count centre. A lot of votes to be counted and talking to be done first though.
5 Oct 2013
11:33AM
Senator John Crown isn’t making any presumptions on RTÉ. He says the the ‘No’ side on which he was a prominent voice has a had a ‘positive’ start to the count. He speaks directly to Taoiseach Enda Kenny:
If there is a no vote, it must be seen by him as winning a mandate to bring about the reform we’ve all been working for.
Tallies all over Dublin still trending ‘No’, the capital looking fairly decided so far on the issue. Even in just eight words the Minister for Transport seems resigned to his constituency going against the government.
It still looks like Dublin has gone ‘No’ but it remains to be seen if this trend will be replicated throughout the country.
5 Oct 2013
12:06PM
Hugh O’Connell here at the Dublin Castle Central Count Centre where it’s fairly quiet so far.
Former Fine Gael Senator Fidelma Healy Eames is around and says it looks like the referendum will be defeated in Galway West which is good news for her.
5 Oct 2013
12:10PM
Meanwhile, we saw Leo Varadkar below resigned to a ‘No’ vote in Dublin West. His final tally is now completed: 53 per cent No, 47 per cent Yes.
“Sin é”, he says. Not quite nationally but we’re getting there.
Before today there have been four referendums during the lifetime of the present government. The current score is three Yes and one No.
The judge’s remuneration, fiscal compact and children’s rights referndums were passed but the Oireachtas inquires vote was defeated. Today is obviously still in the balance with voting on the Court of Appeal referendum due after the Seanad count.
Senator John Whelan has a theory about the uncertain start to counting
5 Oct 2013
12:42PM
Niall Collins, Fianna Fáil’s director of elections, has been speaking down at the count centre, saying that Fianna Fáil put forward “coherent arguments” which demolished Fine Gael and Sinn Féin’s position. No mention for Labour there interestingly.
The first constituency result is in for the Seanad vote! It comes from Galway East and the first numbers on the board are just about good news for the Yes side:
(Referndum.ie)
5 Oct 2013
12:57PM
Tipperary South has competed it’s count now too and is extremely tight:
I think deep down, the people within Ireland, they value their political institutions, their democratic systems. Nobody was arguing for the status quo.
5 Oct 2013
1:08PM
Limerick City goes Yes. Again tight.
Yes: 52.72 per cent
No: 47.28 per cent
5 Oct 2013
1:11PM
The Taoiseach’s spokesperson has been in to see us here at Dublin Castle and says it’s “too close to call”.
Hugh O’Connell from the count centre says it’s “relatively quiet down here at Dublin Castle right now as the results start to tickle in.”
You want a graphic? Here you go:
5 Oct 2013
2:22PM
If you’re from the Kerry North- West Limerick constituency here’s how you voted:
Yes: 53.84 per cent
No: 46.16 per cent
5 Oct 2013
2:23PM
Leo Varadkar is on RTÉ One right now and points out that all panellists – him, David Cullinane, Mattie McGrath, and Niall Collins – appear to have lost their own constituencies.
He says that there is no appetite for reform given that most people did not come out and vote. He said he doesn’t agree that with the idea that a No vote is a vote for reform. “Most people aren’t that pushed whether the Seanad is reformed,” he says adding that he strongly favoured abolition. But it doesn’t look like he’s going to get it.
5 Oct 2013
2:25PM
Turnout so far looks set to eclipse that of the Children’s referendum last November and is running at about 38 per cent at the moment.
‘No’ campaigner Noel Whelan tells RTÉ that he “knew we were making ground over the last few days”. Slams government for “simplistic crude and inaccurate messaging about politics itself.”
Leo Varadkar is having none of it, says the proposal would have been passed if “turnout had been over 50 per cent.”
Senator David Norris is very happy, he tells Miriam O’Callaghan that the Irish people have voted for democracy:
Enda has clearly put reform on the agenda, the Irish people have said that they want reform. It wasn’t on the ballot paper but it’s there now, you can’t remove.
He loves twitter as well appearantly. Thinks it’s amazing how he has managed to reach so many people online.
Senator David Norris is taking some slack online for saying that Seanad should remain “elitist”. He tells Miriam that he doesn’t want to Seanad to become a second Dáil, feels it should still be a forum for prominent people such as Professor John Crown.
5 Oct 2013
3:04PM
Good afternoon. Sinéad O’Carroll here, taking over for the afternoon. The consensus seems to be that the referendum will be defeated but we’ll keep you updated as the results come in.
5 Oct 2013
3:05PM
Dun Laoghaire result is a decisive no. 57.1 per cent No to 42.9 per cent Yes.
5 Oct 2013
3:06PM
Leo Varadkar has been asked if the Taoiseach should consider his position.
“Not at all. This is a referendum on the Seanad,” he laughs. But he notes that the government need to start getting some referendums through if Ireland wants political reform.
5 Oct 2013
3:09PM
And a result from Dublin North-West is in and we have another No from the capital.
NO 54.7 per cent
YES 45.31 per cent
So not tight there.
5 Oct 2013
3:15PM
Another result from Dublin South - the last of the Dublin county constituencies. Out of a total of 46,855, there were 356 invalid ballot papers.
An update from the Government Chief Whip Paul Kehoe in Wexford, where it is still too close to call.
He’s in the count centre where the returning officer has redistributed all counted papers to be rechecked again.
He has just tweeted this picture with the caption, “That’s how close it is #seanref”.
5 Oct 2013
3:23PM
Hugh O’Connell has been chatting to David Norris with a few other reporters down at Dublin Castle. He’s still delighted, argues about the power of Twitter and praises the President.
There has been no official word yet – nor has the government conceded defeat – but people are welcoming the Seanad Referendum ‘Result’.
The Union of Students of Ireland has just issued a statement saying a No vote it is a “extremely positive result for Irish democracy”. President Joe O’Connor, however, said that neither option given to the electorate offered political reform.
5 Oct 2013
3:33PM
Let’s recap on the 26 results we have so far, if you want to find out where you’re constituency is at:
Clare: Yes 51.33 per cent
Cork North-Central: Yes 51.84 per cent
Cork South-Central: No 51.27 per cent
Donegal North-East: No 51.69 per cent
Donegal South-West: No 50.42 per cent
Dublin Mid-West: No 54.7 per cent
Dublin North: No 54.67 per cent
Dublin North-West: No 54.7 per cent
Dublin South-West: No 52.32 per cent
Dublin West: No 57.58 per cent
Dun Laoghaire: No 57.1 per cent
Galway East: Yes 51.37 per cent
Kerry North- West Limerick: Yes 53.84 per cent
Kildare North: No 54.61 per cent
Kildare South: No 55.51 per cent
Limerick City: Yes 52.72 per cent
Longford-Westmeath: Yes 51.02 per cent
Mayo: Yes 57.46 per cent
Meath East: No 52.58 per cent
Meath West: No 53.61 per cent
Roscommon-South Leitrim: Yes 51.67 per cent
Sligo-North Leitrim: Yes 50.76 per cent
Tipperary North: Yes 50.38 per cent
Tipperary South: No 53.46 per cent
5 Oct 2013
3:35PM
Louth has also voted not to abolish the Seanad. The result is a solid 52.3 per cent for the No side.
A theory that is being put out there today is how complacent the ‘Yes’ side became in front of an apathetic electorate.
Twitter user James Doorley blames the polls.
5 Oct 2013
3:39PM
12 of the 12 Dublin constituencies are in. And it’s a significant victory for those who wanted to retain the Seanad (or more correctly, probably, for those who did not want to abolish it).
At Dublin Castle, Senator Prof. John Crown says that the momentum swung to the ‘No’ side when people “saw through” the €20 million savings figure that Fine Gael were touting.
5 Oct 2013
3:51PM
Hugh O’Connell at the Central Count Centre here, Michael McDowell has been speaking to the media at Dublin Castle and he’s had some strong words for Enda Kenny: “The real question is that when he brought it to the people why did it cease to be a personal leadership initiative? Why didn’t he lead when the Yes side required him to lead? That’s a matter for him to consider.”
The former Tánaiaste said now was a chance for reform: “He [Taoiseach] now has an opportunity to deliver on the basis that he has heard the people – through the ballot box – give an overwhelming rejection to the politics of cynicism and spin and this is a mandate now for him to reform Seanad Eireann, to make it what the people of Ireland thought they were putting in place when the enacted the Constitution back in 1937.”
5 Oct 2013
3:51PM
More results are in … we currently have a ‘no’ vote in 22 constituencies and ‘Yes’ in 14 making the national picture look like this:
YES 48.4 per cent
NO 51.6 per cent
5 Oct 2013
3:53PM
BREAKING
News just in from Dublin Castle. We’re expecting a declaration in the next half hour or so.
5 Oct 2013
3:57PM
Some Yes votes have just come in with both Kerry South and Cavan Monaghan opting to abolish the Seanad. It looks like they’ll be disappointed though.
Kerry South: Yes 54.5 per cent
Cavan Monaghan: Yes 54.9 per cent
5 Oct 2013
3:58PM
Micheál Martin tells RTÉ that the opinion polls “threw them” during the campaign, despite hearing from people that they were heading towards voting No.
5 Oct 2013
4:01PM
Turnout figures at the moment look like they will sit at the 39.1 per cent mark. Higher than expected.
Did you vote? If not, why not? Let us know in the comments.
5 Oct 2013
4:03PM
Cork South West is very tight. But it very, very narrowly goes to the Yes side.
Yes 50.9 per cent
This is all very exciting when it’s close, isn’t it?
5 Oct 2013
4:05PM
Right now, we’re waiting on Carlow-Kilkenny, Wicklow, Wexford and Laois-Offaly.
We’ve heard Wexford is too close to call but Laois-Offaly will be a significant ‘No’.
5 Oct 2013
4:08PM
Just realised we didn’t bring you the Dublin South East percentages. Voters were overwhelming against abolishing the second house.
No: 61.3 per cent
5 Oct 2013
4:10PM
If you’re wondering where the Taoiseach is, he’s giving a talk at the Global Economic Forum – the conference of influential Irish people asked to put on the green jersey to help us out of our economic troubles.
5 Oct 2013
4:12PM
We have a result from Wicklow and it is another significant No.
No: 57.82 per cent
5 Oct 2013
4:14PM
And the result from Carlow-Kilkenny is in and it is another narrow No vote.
YES: 49.47 per cent
NO: 50.53 per cent
5 Oct 2013
4:16PM
We are five minutes out from a declaration.
5 Oct 2013
4:17PM
Although Mayo went with their Taoiseach, many Ministers lost the vote in their constituencies. The latest being Phil Hogan in Carlow-Kilkenny.
There was a total of 14,355 spoiled or invalid votes today. Earlier Senator Averil Power and Aodhán Ó Ríordáin were critical of people who encouraged voters to write ‘Reform’ at the end of their ballot papers.
5 Oct 2013
4:46PM
It went down badly on the doorstep.
Here’s what the Taoiseach had to say on the defeat.
5 Oct 2013
4:48PM
The leader of the Seanad Maurice Cummins has said that Seanad reform will be on the agenda after the Budget later this month.
Wexford was as close as they said with a NO vote of 50.1 per cent
Finally, Laois-Offaly was 53.89 per cent YES.
5 Oct 2013
4:59PM
In other-but-related news, Senator Rónán Mullen has confirmed his intention to fight for a seat in Europe, announcing that he will be a candidate in the Midlands-North-West constituency next year.
A close call: In Wexford, where the winning margin for the No side was just 69 votes, there was 579 invalid votes.
5 Oct 2013
5:25PM
The Taoiseach has said he is disappointed with the result in the Seanad referendum but added that he fully accepts and respects the outcome.
He says he will reflect on the best way the house can be used in the best way.
5 Oct 2013
5:32PM
How many times has Kenny said ‘reflect’ during this interview? Answers in the comments section.
5 Oct 2013
5:32PM
Enda Kenny also says he welcomes the result in the Court of Appeal referendum, which looks like it will be a resounding Yes.
The current position nationally is a 65.65 per cent Yes vote versus a 34.35 per cent No vote.
5 Oct 2013
5:32PM
Defending his lack of campaigning on the Seanad Referendum, Kenny described it as a people’s issue and not a government party issue.
5 Oct 2013
5:32PM
“Sometimes in politics, you get a wallop in the electoral process,” continues Kenny when asked if the defeat is a black mark on his leadership.
But he believes there is a virtue in following through with his promise to ask this question of the people.
5 Oct 2013
5:33PM
“I think it is a bit early to give any detail on how one might reflect in an effective way in this matter,” he added when asked about any possible reforms of the Seanad.
“The process of change in politics is something we are going to continue with.”
He repeats the line about reflecting and assessing how best to use the senate.
Counting in the Court of Appeal continues, even though the Taoiseach has already called the result.
Just five official results in, all floating around the 65/35 mark in favour of setting up a new court. Still not sure what that will mean? Here’s our explainer.
We’re going to give the last word to the Taoiseach and wrap up today’s liveblog.
Counting continues in the Court of Appeal Referendum but there’ll be no surprises there. Here’s the state of play as of 6pm. Check TheJournal.ie later for the final, official result.
5 Oct 2013
6:00PM
Thanks for staying with us throughout the day and for your comments, tweets and mails. Until the next amendment. Good evening.
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Your data can be used to monitor for and prevent unusual and possibly fraudulent activity (for example, regarding advertising, ad clicks by bots), and ensure systems and processes work properly and securely. It can also be used to correct any problems you, the publisher or the advertiser may encounter in the delivery of content and ads and in your interaction with them.
Deliver and present advertising and content 97 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
Certain information (like an IP address or device capabilities) is used to ensure the technical compatibility of the content or advertising, and to facilitate the transmission of the content or ad to your device.
Match and combine data from other data sources 72 partners can use this feature
Always Active
Information about your activity on this service may be matched and combined with other information relating to you and originating from various sources (for instance your activity on a separate online service, your use of a loyalty card in-store, or your answers to a survey), in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Link different devices 53 partners can use this feature
Always Active
In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Identify devices based on information transmitted automatically 86 partners can use this feature
Always Active
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
Save and communicate privacy choices 68 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
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