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THE SEANAD REFERENDUM was defeated today, a result that had not been indicated by any previous opinion polls but had been flagged on the doorsteps.
It was a tight count with the margins close in many constituencies. But Dublin – and much of the east coast – voted overwhelming against the proposed amendment to abolish Ireland’s second house.
Turnout at 39 per cent was low, but better than expected. We brought the results to you as they came in. Here’s how it went down.
Good morning and welcome to our referendum count liveblog as the ballot boxes are open across the country. It’s Hugh O’Connell here and together with Daragh Brophy and Rónán Duffy we’ll be bringing all the latest.
There were reports last night of some considerable confusion caused by the two ballot papers. Our own Daragh Brophy said people were confused by the different colours and which paper was which when he went to his polling station.
Here’s what voters were faced with when they went to cast their vote last night:
From the chairman of the Fine Gael party:
One Labour TD, Dublin South East’s Kevin Humphreys, is calling it:
Charlie Flanagan, the Fine Gael chairman, is on Morning Ireland and says that “we’ve really got to go back to the drawing board” on running referenda saying voters were confused when he was out and about yesterday.
“There was an element of confusion and I think the element of confusion is borne out in the wording of the ballot paper, ” he says, adding: “We don’t really simplify things that are straight-forward”.
Despite all this he then says it’s not a time yet for post mortems but does call for a permanent Referendum Commission to be established. Incidentally Environment Minister Phil Hogan said this week he hopes to do that at some point in this government’s term.
Also on Morning Ireland, Sinn Féin Senator David Cullinane says that the whole referendum campaign was a “shambles”. No surprise there.
Labour’s Meath East TD Dominic Hannigan is also on Morning Ireland and says in relation to Kevin Humphrey’s tweet that “if Kevin says it’s a No in Dublin South East, then its a No in Dublin South East”.
He says he was meeting No voters most of the day yesterday. But what kind of company does he keep?
By the way some of you are already querying if its referenda or referendums when it comes to the plural of referendum. Our former colleague Gavan Reilly explains this very well indeed.
“I think an awful lot of political parties in Leinster House were surprised when the Taoiseach proceeded with this referendum,” says Fine Gael TD Simon Harris on Morning Ireland. He’s probably not wrong.
Early tallies indicate that it’s close and in Dublin there are lots of tallies which indicate a No vote there but it’s still too early to be definitive about anything.
Lots of chat about Dublin but here’s what Fianna Fáil activist Ken Curtin is tweeting from Cork:
Here’s our report on the confusion caused by the ballot papers.
As you may know Donegal is traditionally a part of the country that rejects whatever the government proposes. We’ve just heard our first reports from there on RTÉ which indicate it’s a No in Letterkenny to Seanad abolition but a “slight Yes” to the Court of Appeal referendum.
A Fianna Fáil stronghold looks set to reject Seanad abolition, according to Sinn Féin anyway:
He hasn’t gone away you know: Declan Ganley – who called for No vote in the Seanad referendum – has an idea:
So what do ye make of the confusion caused by the ballot papers? It’s been pretty active in the comments so far this morning and this is a flavour of what’s being said:
“Counting is under way in the Republic of Ireland on referendums to decide the fate of the Irish Senate, Seanad Éireann,” says this brief BBC News report this morning. We’ll have a look around to see if there is any other international coverage.
Conspiracies, conspiracies, conspiracies:
So at just after 10am, here’s what we know: Early tallies in Dublin indicate that the Seanad abolition referendum will be rejected in Dublin, but elsewhere it’s looking like a Yes vote.
But it’s still too early to call. It’s tight, that’s what we can say for sure.
“Mary actually raises a fair point,” Fine Gael TD Simon Harris agrees with Mary ‘Mammy’ O’Rourke on RTÉ One’s coverage of the referendum count in a rare outbreak of bipartisanship. They’re talking about the confusing ballot papers. Everyone on the panel appears to agree that the ballot papers are far too confusing altogether.
Whatever about Mark Daly’s tweet earlier here’s Fine Gael director of elections Richard Bruton doing a tally in the RDS this morning:
Pic: Sam Boal/Photocall Ireland
“It’s very early days,” says Richard Bruton on RTÉ One. Asked if there appeared to be a lot of No votes in government strongholds, Bruton says: “I don’t think you can detect patterns at this stage.”
He doesn’t look confident, if we’re honest.
Another pic of a pensive looking Richard Bruton…
If you’re interested in what’s happening in Wicklow, Stephen Kearon is keeping a live Google Doc right here. A very slight Yes there with a fifth of the boxes opened.
“I don’t think anyone can call the thing yet, and certainly not on Twitter,” says junior health minister Alex White on Morning Ireland saying it’s 55-45 No in Dublin South. “It seems to me to be trending No,” he says, at least in Dublin anyway.
Alex White was pretty despondent on Morning Ireland there. He cautioned that it is tight but appeared to admit the Seanad abolition referendum has been lost in Dublin at the very least.
On turnout, early tallies appear to indicate that it will exceed the 33 per cent that came out for the Children’s referendum last November.
Sinn Féin TD Mary Lou McDonald says “the Nos have it” in her own constituency of Dublin Central. She says it was a big mistake for Enda Kenny not to debate the Seanad referendum and to “rush this issue” and not put it the Constitutional Convention.
McDonald says that in the event of a No vote, it would “be a disaster for all of us” if the Seanad is not reformed.
“I would call on the Taiseach to very smartly, without delay to see out the precise manner in which that reform happen,” she says.
She says the matter should be referred to the Constitutional Convention. If it’s a No, that is.
On Morning Ireland, Fine Gael TD and deputy director of elections Regina Doherty says it is 55 to 45 per cent No in Meath East. “I wouldn’t be as definitive as Mary Lou [McDonald] is about an overall No,” she says.
As of now it’s looking like 55 – 45 in favour of Yes vote in Mayo, local Fianna Fáil TD Dara Calleary tells Morning Ireland.
So why is it so close when opinion polls showed a clear lead for the Yes? Well, because there were still a lot of undecideds as of late last week.
An Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI that was published on Monday and carried out late last week showed that over a fifth of voters were undecided. And Don’t Knows tend to swing to No, as appears to have happened.
At 11am it looks like Dublin will reject abolition of the Seanad but it’s still too close to call across the rest of the country and as a result we cannot say definitively which way it’s going to go.
NUI Maynooth lecturer and elections expert Adrian Kavanagh…
Senator David Norris is in studio with Marian Finucane on RTÉ Radio 1. “The indications are looking quite positive for the Seanad,” he says.
Out in Galway West, it’s not looking good for this Fine Gael TD:
Here are a couple of more pictures from the count at the RDS courtesy of Photocall Ireland:
On RTÉ One, Alex White has conceded in Dublin but is not yet sure about the rest of the country.
Hugh O’Connell signing off now to head down to Dublin Castle. My colleague Rónán Duffy will take over liveblogging duties. Hope to bring you coverage from the Central Count Centre a little later.
Good morning, Rónán Duffy here. Well it’s looking far tighter than many predicted. We’re hoping for a result some time in the late afternoon according to those down in the count centre. A lot of votes to be counted and talking to be done first though.
Senator John Crown isn’t making any presumptions on RTÉ. He says the the ‘No’ side on which he was a prominent voice has a had a ‘positive’ start to the count. He speaks directly to Taoiseach Enda Kenny:
If there is a no vote, it must be seen by him as winning a mandate to bring about the reform we’ve all been working for.
Tallies all over Dublin still trending ‘No’, the capital looking fairly decided so far on the issue. Even in just eight words the Minister for Transport seems resigned to his constituency going against the government.
Our political editor Hugh O’Connell has arrived at the count centre and has written an update of the feeling among politicians down there.
It still looks like Dublin has gone ‘No’ but it remains to be seen if this trend will be replicated throughout the country.
Hugh O’Connell here at the Dublin Castle Central Count Centre where it’s fairly quiet so far.
Former Fine Gael Senator Fidelma Healy Eames is around and says it looks like the referendum will be defeated in Galway West which is good news for her.
Meanwhile, we saw Leo Varadkar below resigned to a ‘No’ vote in Dublin West. His final tally is now completed: 53 per cent No, 47 per cent Yes.
“Sin é”, he says. Not quite nationally but we’re getting there.
Before today there have been four referendums during the lifetime of the present government. The current score is three Yes and one No.
The judge’s remuneration, fiscal compact and children’s rights referndums were passed but the Oireachtas inquires vote was defeated. Today is obviously still in the balance with voting on the Court of Appeal referendum due after the Seanad count.
Senator John Whelan has a theory about the uncertain start to counting
Niall Collins, Fianna Fáil’s director of elections, has been speaking down at the count centre, saying that Fianna Fáil put forward “coherent arguments” which demolished Fine Gael and Sinn Féin’s position. No mention for Labour there interestingly.
The first constituency result is in for the Seanad vote! It comes from Galway East and the first numbers on the board are just about good news for the Yes side:
(Referndum.ie)
Tipperary South has competed it’s count now too and is extremely tight:
Yes: 50.41
No: 49.59
Here’s what Fianna Fáil’s Niall Collins had to say at Dublin Castle a few minutes ago:
I think deep down, the people within Ireland, they value their political institutions, their democratic systems. Nobody was arguing for the status quo.
The Taoiseach’s spokesperson has been in to see us here at Dublin Castle and says it’s “too close to call”.
State of play at this early stage:
Paddy Power are today calling the result of the Seanad Referendum early and paying out on a ‘No’ result.
This man down the count centre will be happy:
(h/t Fiach Kelly)
We have our first No of the day as Cork South Central goes with its local Fianna Fáil TD Micheál Martin:
Yes: 48.73 per cent
No: 51.27 per cent
Second result from Leeside, this time Cork North-Central:
Yes: 51.84 per cent
No: 48.16 per cent
Most decisive result so far from Kidare North:
Yes: 45.39 per cent
No: 54.61 per cent
That last result has put the ‘No’ side slighty ahead.
Results from Dublin which is tallying ‘No’ are expected to begin coming in from 2pm.
Dublin South West has completed its count. It’s a no.
Yes: 47.68 per cent
No: 52.32 per cent
Sinn Fein TD Dessie Ellis does his sums at the RDS. Pic: Niall Carson/PA Wire
As is the trend around the city, Dublin Mid-West votes ‘No’:
Yes: 45.3 per cent
No: 54.7 per cent
It’s only 2 o’clock but the future of the Seanad is looking safer and safer.
Our first result from the north-west of the country comes from Donegal North-East:
Yes: 48.31 per cent
No: 51.69 per cent
Both Donegal constituencies were the only two in the country to vote against the Children’s Referendum last year.
First win for the ‘Yes’ side in the past 50 minutes but it’s by just 201 votes in Tipperary North:
Yes: 50.38 per cent
No: 49.62 per cent
If you’re from the Kerry North- West Limerick constituency here’s how you voted:
Yes: 53.84 per cent
No: 46.16 per cent
Leo Varadkar is on RTÉ One right now and points out that all panellists – him, David Cullinane, Mattie McGrath, and Niall Collins – appear to have lost their own constituencies.
He says that there is no appetite for reform given that most people did not come out and vote. He said he doesn’t agree that with the idea that a No vote is a vote for reform. “Most people aren’t that pushed whether the Seanad is reformed,” he says adding that he strongly favoured abolition. But it doesn’t look like he’s going to get it.
Turnout so far looks set to eclipse that of the Children’s referendum last November and is running at about 38 per cent at the moment.
The nationwide picture with 13 results in.
Green is Yes, red is No. Obviously.
Sligo North-Leitrim:
Yes: 50.76 per cent
Now 49.24 per cent
‘No’ campaigner Noel Whelan tells RTÉ that he “knew we were making ground over the last few days”. Slams government for “simplistic crude and inaccurate messaging about politics itself.”
Leo Varadkar is having none of it, says the proposal would have been passed if “turnout had been over 50 per cent.”
(Pic: Niall Carson/PA Wire)
Senator David Norris is very happy, he tells Miriam O’Callaghan that the Irish people have voted for democracy:
Enda has clearly put reform on the agenda, the Irish people have said that they want reform. It wasn’t on the ballot paper but it’s there now, you can’t remove.
He loves twitter as well appearantly. Thinks it’s amazing how he has managed to reach so many people online.
Senator David Norris is taking some slack online for saying that Seanad should remain “elitist”. He tells Miriam that he doesn’t want to Seanad to become a second Dáil, feels it should still be a forum for prominent people such as Professor John Crown.
Good afternoon. Sinéad O’Carroll here, taking over for the afternoon. The consensus seems to be that the referendum will be defeated but we’ll keep you updated as the results come in.
Leo Varadkar has been asked if the Taoiseach should consider his position.
“Not at all. This is a referendum on the Seanad,” he laughs. But he notes that the government need to start getting some referendums through if Ireland wants political reform.
And a result from Dublin North-West is in and we have another No from the capital.
NO 54.7 per cent
YES 45.31 per cent
So not tight there.
Another result from Dublin South - the last of the Dublin county constituencies. Out of a total of 46,855, there were 356 invalid ballot papers.
And it’s a No.
An update from the Government Chief Whip Paul Kehoe in Wexford, where it is still too close to call.
He’s in the count centre where the returning officer has redistributed all counted papers to be rechecked again.
He has just tweeted this picture with the caption, “That’s how close it is #seanref”.
Hugh O’Connell has been chatting to David Norris with a few other reporters down at Dublin Castle. He’s still delighted, argues about the power of Twitter and praises the President.
“We were twittering together,” he says.
There has been no official word yet – nor has the government conceded defeat – but people are welcoming the Seanad Referendum ‘Result’.
The Union of Students of Ireland has just issued a statement saying a No vote it is a “extremely positive result for Irish democracy”. President Joe O’Connor, however, said that neither option given to the electorate offered political reform.
Let’s recap on the 26 results we have so far, if you want to find out where you’re constituency is at:
Clare: Yes 51.33 per cent
Cork North-Central: Yes 51.84 per cent
Cork South-Central: No 51.27 per cent
Donegal North-East: No 51.69 per cent
Donegal South-West: No 50.42 per cent
Dublin Mid-West: No 54.7 per cent
Dublin North: No 54.67 per cent
Dublin North-West: No 54.7 per cent
Dublin South-West: No 52.32 per cent
Dublin West: No 57.58 per cent
Dun Laoghaire: No 57.1 per cent
Galway East: Yes 51.37 per cent
Kerry North- West Limerick: Yes 53.84 per cent
Kildare North: No 54.61 per cent
Kildare South: No 55.51 per cent
Limerick City: Yes 52.72 per cent
Longford-Westmeath: Yes 51.02 per cent
Mayo: Yes 57.46 per cent
Meath East: No 52.58 per cent
Meath West: No 53.61 per cent
Roscommon-South Leitrim: Yes 51.67 per cent
Sligo-North Leitrim: Yes 50.76 per cent
Tipperary North: Yes 50.38 per cent
Tipperary South: No 53.46 per cent
Louth has also voted not to abolish the Seanad. The result is a solid 52.3 per cent for the No side.
A theory that is being put out there today is how complacent the ‘Yes’ side became in front of an apathetic electorate.
Twitter user James Doorley blames the polls.
12 of the 12 Dublin constituencies are in. And it’s a significant victory for those who wanted to retain the Seanad (or more correctly, probably, for those who did not want to abolish it).
NO: 55.6 per cent
Today FM’s Aingeala Flannery points something out…
At Dublin Castle, Senator Prof. John Crown says that the momentum swung to the ‘No’ side when people “saw through” the €20 million savings figure that Fine Gael were touting.
Hugh O’Connell at the Central Count Centre here, Michael McDowell has been speaking to the media at Dublin Castle and he’s had some strong words for Enda Kenny: “The real question is that when he brought it to the people why did it cease to be a personal leadership initiative? Why didn’t he lead when the Yes side required him to lead? That’s a matter for him to consider.”
The former Tánaiaste said now was a chance for reform: “He [Taoiseach] now has an opportunity to deliver on the basis that he has heard the people – through the ballot box – give an overwhelming rejection to the politics of cynicism and spin and this is a mandate now for him to reform Seanad Eireann, to make it what the people of Ireland thought they were putting in place when the enacted the Constitution back in 1937.”
More results are in … we currently have a ‘no’ vote in 22 constituencies and ‘Yes’ in 14 making the national picture look like this:
YES 48.4 per cent
NO 51.6 per cent
BREAKING
News just in from Dublin Castle. We’re expecting a declaration in the next half hour or so.
Some Yes votes have just come in with both Kerry South and Cavan Monaghan opting to abolish the Seanad. It looks like they’ll be disappointed though.
Kerry South: Yes 54.5 per cent
Cavan Monaghan: Yes 54.9 per cent
Micheál Martin tells RTÉ that the opinion polls “threw them” during the campaign, despite hearing from people that they were heading towards voting No.
Turnout figures at the moment look like they will sit at the 39.1 per cent mark. Higher than expected.
Did you vote? If not, why not? Let us know in the comments.
Cork South West is very tight. But it very, very narrowly goes to the Yes side.
Yes 50.9 per cent
This is all very exciting when it’s close, isn’t it?
Right now, we’re waiting on Carlow-Kilkenny, Wicklow, Wexford and Laois-Offaly.
We’ve heard Wexford is too close to call but Laois-Offaly will be a significant ‘No’.
Just realised we didn’t bring you the Dublin South East percentages. Voters were overwhelming against abolishing the second house.
No: 61.3 per cent
If you’re wondering where the Taoiseach is, he’s giving a talk at the Global Economic Forum – the conference of influential Irish people asked to put on the green jersey to help us out of our economic troubles.
We have a result from Wicklow and it is another significant No.
No: 57.82 per cent
And the result from Carlow-Kilkenny is in and it is another narrow No vote.
YES: 49.47 per cent
NO: 50.53 per cent
Although Mayo went with their Taoiseach, many Ministers lost the vote in their constituencies. The latest being Phil Hogan in Carlow-Kilkenny.
Lucinda Creighton is a happy woman today.
The declaration has come in. The referendum to abolish the Seanad has been defeated. Here are the important figures
Total poll: 1,240,729
Invalid: 14,355
Yes: 591,937
No: 634,437
Difference: 42,500
Some maths from @gavreilly:
There was a total of 14,355 spoiled or invalid votes today. Earlier Senator Averil Power and Aodhán Ó Ríordáin were critical of people who encouraged voters to write ‘Reform’ at the end of their ballot papers.
It went down badly on the doorstep.
Here’s what the Taoiseach had to say on the defeat.
The leader of the Seanad Maurice Cummins has said that Seanad reform will be on the agenda after the Budget later this month.
Hugh O’Connell at the count centre in Dublin Castle. Here’s the moment the Seanad referendum result was confirmed.
The last results are in.
Wexford was as close as they said with a NO vote of 50.1 per cent
Finally, Laois-Offaly was 53.89 per cent YES.
In other-but-related news, Senator Rónán Mullen has confirmed his intention to fight for a seat in Europe, announcing that he will be a candidate in the Midlands-North-West constituency next year.
A close call: In Wexford, where the winning margin for the No side was just 69 votes, there was 579 invalid votes.
The Taoiseach has said he is disappointed with the result in the Seanad referendum but added that he fully accepts and respects the outcome.
He says he will reflect on the best way the house can be used in the best way.
How many times has Kenny said ‘reflect’ during this interview? Answers in the comments section.
Enda Kenny also says he welcomes the result in the Court of Appeal referendum, which looks like it will be a resounding Yes.
The current position nationally is a 65.65 per cent Yes vote versus a 34.35 per cent No vote.
Defending his lack of campaigning on the Seanad Referendum, Kenny described it as a people’s issue and not a government party issue.
“Sometimes in politics, you get a wallop in the electoral process,” continues Kenny when asked if the defeat is a black mark on his leadership.
But he believes there is a virtue in following through with his promise to ask this question of the people.
“I think it is a bit early to give any detail on how one might reflect in an effective way in this matter,” he added when asked about any possible reforms of the Seanad.
“The process of change in politics is something we are going to continue with.”
He repeats the line about reflecting and assessing how best to use the senate.
Counting in the Court of Appeal continues, even though the Taoiseach has already called the result.
Just five official results in, all floating around the 65/35 mark in favour of setting up a new court. Still not sure what that will mean? Here’s our explainer.
Senators celebrate in Dublin Castle as the result is announced.
WATCH: The Taoiseach’s reaction to the Seanad referendum defeat.
We’re going to give the last word to the Taoiseach and wrap up today’s liveblog.
Counting continues in the Court of Appeal Referendum but there’ll be no surprises there. Here’s the state of play as of 6pm. Check TheJournal.ie later for the final, official result.
I my opinion Alan Kelly should be in the Finna Gael party. He acts like a right wing conservative going by his antics when he was in Government.
@Frances Faller: He is an extremely dangerous individual. He seems to love inflicting pain and suffering on the Irish working people. His attempts to ram things home with Irish Water was enough to convince me that he should not be a politician.
@Frances Faller: I couldn’t agree more. Have always struggled with the concept of him being in a “left” party. My conclusion is that he sees himself as a big fish in a small pond and saw Labour as his chance to get some power…..his favourite drug!
@Frances Faller: this particular labour party aren’t all that left to begin with.
@David Corrigan: Are you off your head. Like the rest of EU we should be paying for water.
Majority of people paid up because we know nothing is free and wastage is not on.
A bunch of mad lefties jumped on the issue and bullied their way forward.
Logic is that if you pay tax it’s for everything. No double taxation
So where’s the campaign against the car tax, VAT, property tax, passport charges, nct, A and E charges, so on energy Bill’s etc.
Thank God they are no part of government now as they recklessly demand Dail sittings.
You made a lot of millionaires with pools very happy with your pathetic mantras.
@David Glynn: We are paying for water through our taxes but you refuse to acknowledge it.
My Irish Water example illustrated how nasty Kelly is. He is not fit to manage any team or project.
@David Corrigan: Spot on. He continued insisting he had to introduce water charges under EU law, even after the EU pointed out that he was wrong.
@David Glynn: and remember that sinn fein supported water charges, but changed their minds when they saw that the populist route was more beneficial to the party.
@David Glynn: You seem to have a huge problem with the Irish people not buying into the whole Irish water scam. Perhaps you can make a personal donation to Irish Water yourself. This should help with your wounded conscience.
@David Corrigan: If you are looking for “extremely dangerous individuals” you should have a look within your own party – SF. Enough members in there with pasts that would same the most evil organisations!
@Shay Redmond.: Dont contribute to State companies if no bill to pay.
OMG who’s next it’ll make no difference as Labour is a sinking ship and the quicker it sinks the better did you ever hear of a union rep losing a job No
@John O Donoghue: do you think it’s time for a final solution for the Labour Party problem? Would you say Ireland will never be at rest until Labour and its members are liquidated once and for all? Truly Labour carries the exclusive responsibility for all that is wrong in this country. Only the comments section here gives you a full insight.
@Ciaran O’Mara: name something good Labour have done for the people and country in the past 30 years?
@King B: Well, there was…. emmm…. and also… erhhh…. I’ll get back to you.
@King B: It’s a sad thing that they can’t even defend their own party with a few examples isn’t it?
@Ciaran O’Mara: Absolute rubbish. Never in power in a boom.Blame the fire brigade on the fire.
@David Glynn: Or there was no boom because they were in power.
@King B: FOI.
@King B: Do you know all that State owned land that SF want to build social housing on, well all that land is state owned because Labour stopped FG from giving it to their connected circle during the 2011-16 Government. That would be consider good I think, don’t you?
@King B:
Labours Achievements in Government:
• Created a stable economy – no one expected that the economy and jobs would recover so quickly.
• Got people back to work by creating a strong growth situation.
• Got rid of the Troika.
• Worked to reduce cuts for lower incomes
• Saved the social welfare recipients from drastic cuts
I have many more if you want!
@For Goodness Sake: there was no stable economy, there was a very shaky economy with many expert opinions out there to confirm that. Labour were responsible for Jobs Ridge and over saw many cuts to the social welfare and made it far more difficult for people to access. They behaved completely inappropriately and unprofessionally especially Kelly and Burton who became increasingly condescending as time went on. They didn’t fight for the people as a true Labour party should, not even a peep, their key politicians aren’t relatable to the ordinary person, I’d be a massive supporter if they had stayed true to their roots but they haven’t
@For Goodness Sake: the troika left after four or five years after their business had been concluded with many more austerity budgets to follow. Labour didn’t ‘get rid’ of the troika as you so romantically put it.
Labour the party that taxed the family home and tried to tax family water and internet One would not want to represented by labour in a court of law
Labour only seems to serve as a lightning rod for Irish rage. Their main policy seems to be trolling the working class. Remember Joan defending jobsbridge and refusing to address any critcism as we begged her to see how it was being abused, destroying the entry level job market. Why would any business owner hire a lad on minimum wage when they could get a free intern paid by the government.
The jobstown incident was what set me against labour for good. Joan Burton lied in court, and they sat back as the media twisted the events to bash Paul Murphy (don’t like him for other reasons, but they really misrepresented what happened.
What a disgusting and vile party. Glad they’re irrelevant now.
Jobstown was a Garda public order case, & Ms Burton was not a complainant, just a citizen threatened & attacked,along with others, including Gardai,, by a mob led by irresponsible provocateurs.
Accuracy please, less propaganda.
@William Kelly: Ms Burton was in her car playing on her phone. She could have left the protest at any time. I don’t understand why you want to paint a false picture of the situation. Why do you want to do that William?
@William Kelly:
Whether or not she was a complainant doesn’t change the fact that she lied in court.
Led by provocateurs? You’ve eaten up the edited RTE audio I see. Here’s a little fact for you, the “man with the megaphone” as RTE put it, Paul Murphy, was actually given the megaphone by the Gardai, who asked him to help calm people down (which he tried to do). Of course, facts don’t stop agendas now do they?
Standing in front of a car is not a violent protest. The whole thing was blown out of proportion and twisted into something far bigger than it ever should have been.
Never forget that the child they put on trial was found innocent after video footage showed Joan Burton and the Gardai to have lied in court about what happened.
@William Kelly:
Quotes from GARDAI in the helicoptor:
“It’s fairly dispersed. She’s making a good bit of progress. She’s only, only another 100 metres, not even 50 metres, from the Tallaght Bypass. There’s no pushing or shoving or anything. The Public Order Unit moved in there for a minute and there was a bit and they seem to have left them march ahead of their banner like.”
“The Jeep could have went backwards ages ago but [inaudible] did not want to do that. …There’s no hassle really.”
From the Gardai themselves. Yeah, sounds like a really horrible “attack” pfff…
Or what about the fact that 4+ Gardai arrived at the young lads house early in the morning to arrest him, This is something they do for a known criminal that’s violent not a school going kid.
Also if the kid was jailed that be his future career gone no travelling to the USA Australia etc.
@William Kelly: Joan Burton did herself and the so called Labour party no favours regarding Jobstown. A legitimate protest that got certainly out of hand. The problem was Joan Burton and the leadership failed to understand the anger of ordinary people concerning the blind allegiance to a right wing party whose only policy was austerity. The fact the Labour party broke every election promise never even registered with them , the fact theose charged in connection with Jobstown were found Not Guilty ,again never registered with the Labour leadership. Baby Blueshirts would be an apt name for so called Labour party.
@Donal Desmond:
The labour party was founded by James Conolly. The man who, in 1916 told his followers that it was their patriotic duty to shoot a police officer.
If modern labour feel the need to wet themselves over people standing in front of a car and shouting, maybe they shouldn’t call themselves labour.
As he chanted to the mob of wasters “Will we let her go”.
Bullying two women for hours.
Video is there. No twisting needed.
Truth hurts.
@David Corrigan: How could she leave. The mob, your mob,was threatening.
Police should have called in reinforcements and baton charged them after due warning.
Freedom of movement cherished right.
@: And no repercussions.
@David Glynn: My mob? You have lost the argument after your third post David.
You make too many wild assumptions and the hatred you have for anyone outside of your party boils over and quiet frankly makes you look weak.
Go a d get your breakfast and think about your behavior on here.
@David Corrigan: David, you can say what you want and post as many Garda quotes as you want but we’ve all see the videos. Nobody should be proud of themselves for what happened that day. It most certainly wasn’t as benign as you’re painting it.
@David Corrigan: This nice guy Shinbot pose fools no one . You cant answer the argument , that’s your problem.
Assumptions? As I have posted numerous times I was a lifelong Labour supporter and switched to Geens and S Dems this election
I have had breakfast early as usual.One of the early risers who worked and paid their taxes. Possibly not a scenario you are familiar with.
No shame to be a Shinner. Come out ye Shinners.
@William Kelly: In the interests of the ‘accuracy’ you desire, would you care to remind us what the outcome of the case was ?
@David Corrigan: she couldn’t have left the car, she was lucky not to have been badly injured.
@Bernard Sweeney: Where did I post Garda posts Bernard
@David Glynn: Ok David.
@Bernard Sweeney:
You’ve seen the heavily edited videos released by RTE, have you seen the footage from the Garda helicoptor? because that’s what caused the case to collapse, it showed very clearly that they could have simply reversed and left.
Standing in front of a car might be a crime but it’s not violent, it’s a pretty standard non-violent protest. Nobody got hurt so I still don’t see how we can keep pretending this was a riot. Nobody even got bruised ffs
@David Glynn:
“Bullying a woman for hours”
They could have reversed, they chose not to so they could play victim and have something to bash Paul Murphy with (he was asking too many hard questions about Jobbridge and other failed Labour policies)
@David Glynn: f00l
Would not for a second equate the Labour party with the aims of James Connolly. Think It was a Labour leader William Norton ( open to correction) stated As Leader of the Labour party..(I am a Catholic first, An Irishman second, A socialist third). To me that sums up the Labour party. In their tenure in government they became more blueshirt than the blueshirts.
@David Glynn: In case it has escaped your attention all persons charged with the Jobstown protest were found Not Guilty. This certainly did not suit the leadership of the so called Labour party or their colition partners. Burton sat in her car knowing their support concerning water charges, austerity measures, A betrayal of every election promises they had made to the electorate. Frankfurts way or Labour’s way.. Well they certainly went the way of the blueshirts.
@Donal Desmond: The judge had sense. You would have loved martyrs.
@David Glynn: Think there was a jury involved. Burton lied in court , guards were found to have lied , Burton emerged a self styled martyr …but only in the eyes of so called Labour party.
Why is this even deemed newsworthy? Irrelevant.
Hope kelly gets it a d that will be the end of the labour party
The party that took medical cards off children with Down Syndrome
Please let Mr Kelly become leader and be finished with Liebour once and for all..
I note that the comments still follow the disgusting trait of attacking the small guy for the austerity years, & yet people still vote for the main culprits in the primary cause of our banking collapse FFFG, & a naive element now vote for SF which caused havoc on the island for 30+ years, & subsequently, stayed as lathair through out the economic troubles.
Labour has no blood on their hands, no brown envelope backhander finance, & sound democratic credentials ever since 1919.
Seems we have a shortage of balanced & sound thinking about our political choices in this country.
@William Kelly: I wouldn’t be so proud, the people gave Labour what they deserved, what was it, 6%
@William Kelly: They performed a complete turn on their promises to the people who voted them in. After that turn was complete they proceeded to drive the dagger home by forcefully pushing Irish Water on the hard pressed working person.
If you can’t see that as betrayal then clearly there is no talking to you William.
@William Kelly: are you related to Alan lol!
@William Kelly: Got it right there.
@David Corrigan: SF are obviously afraid of Labour. No other reason to have you ranting.
@William Kelly:
Labour’s jobbridge scheme affected me personally. I remember too well looking for a job at 18 and seeing nothing but unpaid internships for Tescos, unpaid internships at helpdesks requiring a degree and a year of experience, unpaid internships became the standard first job. Minimum wage became something you had to “work up” to. And suddenly even “paid” jobs were used as lure to have you work a couple months for free.
Joan Burton refused to hear any criticism, and attacked anyone who asked hard questions about it.
That’s just one of labours policies, the one that hurt me the most, they did nothing about the looming rental crisis when they had a chance either. They spent the 2016 election attacking Sinn Fein, PBP, Socialists, Greens, and gushing with praise for Fine Gael, and they were rightly punished for it.
They should do us all a favour and simply disband.
@William Kelly: Perhaps if the so called Labour party had stood up for the rights of the people who through the gangsterism of banks and developers facilitated by politicians facilitated by F.F. and endorsed by F.G./ Labour who instead enforced draconian austerity measures to repay for economic crash. The so called Labour party supported every austerity measure interduced. You will probably be aware some in the so called Labour party leadership were in the past not so Lily white. You seem to have no problem with that. Yet you condem S.F. .. Like FF/F.G. so called Labour party buried their heads in the sand for over 30 years.
@For Goodness Sake: I am obviously rattling the FG PR cage if they keep sending an amateur like you to follow me about.
Aodhán O’Riordáin’s face in that picture tells the story about how I think of Alan Kelly.
I couldn’t care less about Labour but here’s hoping they don’t vote Kelly in as having to see him on the news when they give these irrelevant parties their 20 second clip on ongoing matters would make turn me off my spuds.
Rotten individual, he really tried to screw us with water charges & also a friend of John Delaney, I remember Delaney canvassing for him! #NUFFSAID
Hopefully they elect Captain Power Trip and we can finally put the rotting carcass of the once great party of Connolly and Larkin to rest.
@The Risen: Mr power trip himself.
Will you ever make a sensible comment not tinged with SF adoration.
This is where you live with the Gino man.
Pay for nothing grab all brigade.
And what about the people who were getting their diplomas that day
No, feck them. We don’t like people who better themselves through hard work.
Always so predictable. And a joy to shine a light on your SF propaganda.Still travelling in to HQ or at home.
Wont say working that being an alien concept.
@David Glynn: You would have thrived in Germany in the 1930′s David. Thrived I tell you.
@David Glynn: have you got a 5G mast near your home?
Who really cares
Howlin’s main failing was his inability to tell the dinosaurs to get off the stage. The sight of Joan Burton, Joe Costello, Emmet Stagg etc. tottering around trying to canvass was just sad and ridiculous. Because of this many potentially younger candidates just simply left the party. There are even large urban towns with no Labour branches left. Sad from a party who did so well in 2011.
Labor has been a disgrace to its history for decades now. They should just fold tent and walk away. They failed the people and have not had a vision in living memory. A bunch of smoked salmon socialists!
Sinn Fein are not ‘out in front as the biggest party’ Conor.
Even if you include the ooooooo, the ceann comhairle wasn’t elected rubbish, they’re still only joint biggest party’.
Jesus, how many typos can one article have!
Alan kelly, he is corrupt, he did not have eno5votes to stay in dial eireann Government, only filled in free to fill MUNSTER seats, corrupt.. as he has his Brother, a billionaire businessman.. as alan and his Brother have started water meters years back.. and no member in dail, FG, FF& Labour will not stop or bring this to Europe court.. mistakes have been done..and will happen again.. all people open your eyes, and see.. alan..not ever to be trusted..
Ireland needs a secular party which is committed to retaining major services in public ownership. The control of our education system need to be public.The dependence on ‘charities’ for essential services should be ended and should be provided nationally. There are almost 10,000 registered charities in Ireland and many have become an end in themselves.
Labour Party lost it’s core when Dick Spring did a U turn and went into power with Fianna Fail.
After that they were not to be trusted.
Then there was the Joan Burton debacle which was probably Alan Kelly,’s contribution to politics.
Smoke Salmon Socialists
have your say