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Good evening! Are we all ready for the first television debate between the seven Presidential candidates?
If that’s a yes, you’re in the right place as we liveblog you through the point-scoring on Late Late Show on RTÉ1. If it’s a no, A Few Good Men is on over on RTÉ2. We’re sure it’s a pure scheduling coincidence. Sure of it.
Jedward have/has just made an interesting suggestion – should all seven Presidential candidates be elected and live in the Áras together?
Reminds us of this – but who would be John Boy?
Have you TheJournal.ie’s Presidential election bingo cards to hand?
Some phrases to watch out for… “Nelson Mandela”; “People’s president”; “I met a young unemployed man the other day… (heavy sigh)”
Gay Mitchell is up first. He wants to be President because he has experience, “fighting spirit” and grew up in Ireland in difficult circumstances.
Gay Mitchell (GM) outlining his experience on Oireachtas committee, as Lord Mayor securing major literature awards for Ireland – this is all about his innovation, he contends. Oh yes, and he suggested we bring the Olympics to Ireland at that time.
The Olympics didn’t come to Ireland but hell, he gave it a shot.
Ryan Tubridy: You were not the first choice of your Fine Gael party.
Gay Mitchell: Young Fine Gael did, the councillors did and now the “backroom boys are breaking their backs for me”.
GM brings up the issue of suicide as his closing point – he wants to pursue such issues not in a party political way.
Next is Martin McGuinness. He wants to run for President to defend the ordinary people of Ireland. The bulk of the salary would go “back to the people”, namely those unidentified “six young unemployed” people who McGuinness would take off the dole queue.
Leadership essential – and I’ve shown it at Stormont, says Martin McGuinness (MMcG).
MMcG says the President should stand up and “embarrass” those people who “drove the economy into the ground”. The big issue for him appears to be addressing the gap between rich and poor.
The reprieve from the IRA question didn’t last long. Ryan Tubridy comes at it from a different angle: Why did you abandon the IRA at the height of the Troubles. Well that’s a new way of coming at it.
MMcG says he has never apologised for being in the IRA and that he left in 1974. Ryan Tubridy: People say you are not telling the truth. MMcG: It’s not an issue for ordinary people. What is an issue for them is that I was central to the peace process.
Here comes Mary Davis now. From Kiltimagh in Mayo. We’d forgotten that. That’s where Louis Walsh is from.
Back to business: Mary Davis (MD) is proud of her track record with volunteers and Special Olympics. And today is National Volunteering Day, so that’s timely.
Ryan Tubridy (RT): What Presidential qualities have you got? MD says she is restless (in a good way), enthusiastic, passionate – and there are many issues she wants to embrace.
“I believe in people… I believe in the power of people.”
The boards/quango question aimed at MD. My first one was the Sports Council, and I was appointed by the Rainbow government, she says.
MD: “I am totally an independent candidate. I have no political affiliations”.
RT turns that back on her – does that mean you don’t have political experience. MD right back at him – I am a persuader, I make things happen. If that makes a politician, then yes, I am a politician.
Two weeks in Florida, then one week luxury cruise in the Bahamas. And no, you don’t have to bring any Presidential candidate with you. Score.
While we’re making the tea during the ads, a quick shoutout to Aisling Nolan – @AislingNolan_x on Twitter – who is living in Prague and is raging that she can’t see the TV coverage of the Presidential election. But then she found TheJournal.ie’s liveblog. Nice. Hi Aisling.
Dana Rosemary Scallon (DRS) is on first after the break. She’s changed out of the dress she arrived in studios with, into a more regal purple jacket.
She’s focusing on her ability to protect Ireland’s sovereignty after her European experiences as an MEP.
Dana speaking about how she spoke for the ordinary people during Nice and Lisbon.
“We didn’t go to Europe as beggars. We gave Europe our fishing rights.” DRS sounding rather angry with Europe.
DRS on changes to the EU Treaty – would she send it to the Supreme Court to test its constitutionality?
“You bet your boots I would”.
Some applause from the audience – RT reminds them this isn’t an applauding scenario.
No! DRS *almost* said “all kinds of everything”. But she didn’t.
She concludes that she “brought the truth back to the people”.
Seán Gallagher is on now and he wants to help the country get back on its feet. What qualifies him? His life – in farming and youth work – has been about developing confidence in others.
He wants Ireland’s young people to be here, not emigrating. He invokes the name of Mary McAleese: wants to do for employment what she did for peace.
RT: You can’t create jobs as a President.
SG: I can create a culture for creating jobs.
It’s all about confidence-creating. It starts in schools in Transition Year.
(Aren’t they thinking of getting rid of Transition Year in schools?)
To clarify that last post – The first line was Seán Gallagher’s. The second was mine.
SG remembers being unemployed twice in the 1980s. I’ve been there, I know about the loss of status and confidence. I understand that “we in this country have to get out there” and create confidence and belief in ourselves.
Michael D Higgins now. He knows he would be an “inspirational” President. He wants an “inclusive citizenship”. He wants to make progress in establishing a “real republic” and in “redefining Irishness”.
Reminds us again that he’s covered 23,000kms since April. It’s good we have the metric system. That would be less in miles.
Michael D Higgins (MDH) says it’s important to be open about the values you hold.
MDH’s commitment to “the public space” is discussed and he speaks of his long record of defending the arts and Irish culture. He has vision and independence of mind, he has courage, says MDH.
RT asks how an independent spirit like MDH would cope with the constraints of being President. MDH says he knows how legislation works and how the office works. He says he will exercise discretion but will set up a set of seminars in which issues can be discussed.
Put the kettle on, crack open the beer, get the biscuit tin. The six candidates have had their soapbox moment. After the ad break: the debate.
Anyone who hasn’t heard RT explain why David Norris didn’t get a mini-interview tonight, we reported on it here earlier. Essentially, he got his run-out two weeks ago when he was interviewed on the Late Late so for sake of balance, he won’t be repeating it tonight. He will, however, be part of the debate which is coming up now.
Gay Mitchell: It should be. No specifics.
Dana Rosemary Scallon: I’m happy to go with whatever the Government thinks.
Seán Gallagher: He is happy to go with an amount appropriate to the work. But talk of the salary is a bit of a gimmick, he says.
Mary Davis: She’d also leave it up to the Government.
David Norris: The vast majority of his salary he would put in an independent fund because he doesn’t trust the State not to mismanage it. The money would fund a celebration in every county around the country.
Michael D Higgins: He has no difficulty with a change in salary, He will not be taking any pension which he would be entitled to for the duration of the Presidency. (If he was Pres, that is).
Martin McGuinness: He is prepared to do the job for a great deal less. He gave a good tranche of his Deputy First Minister salary back (to Sinn Féin). The vast bulk of his salary as President would go to those six unemployed young people.
How much have you spent on your Presidential campaign?
DRS: She can’t remember what she spent on her campaign 14 years ago. She will be funding from public donations. She won’t be asking for money for posters because “people know what I look like”.
SG: He claims his will be the least amount spent in this campaign because he won’t be putting posters up. On lamp-posts anyway. He puts €200,000 on it. He’s happy to get donations from the public.
MD: She says it will probably have to spend more than Seán because she has to put up posters. People don’t know me “because I’m not a celebrity or a politician”. It could come from €300,000 to €350,000. She and her husband took out a personal loan to get it started but there is fundraising. One such event was a parachute jump called ‘Falling for Mary’.
She’s asked if Denis O’Brien is supporting her campaign financially. She says he can give a donation up to €2,500 as any citizen can, and that is all he has given.
DN: He says he is heading into an overdraft and would be grateful for any donations because he doesn’t have a “party machine” behind him. He doesn’t have any corporation donations, yet.
MDH: He says his budget is €321,000. He is also saying he put some of his own money in there to start it off.
GM: In the region of €350,000 is his warchest. He’s saying spending on posters etc. is not all negative as it keeps people in business.
MMcG: “Less than Gay or Michael D.” is MMcG’s initial response to the question. It depends on what fundraising efforts bring in – he mentions that people from the States have been offering donations. Mentions that he lives on “300 pounds a week” so can’t put in much of his own.
Seán Gallagher the first to want to come back in rather than wait to be asked a question. He says the poster issue is important. Gay Mitchell saus people out there are “pleading with us” to give them printing work.
Michael D Higgins says the office of the Presidency has to be taken seriously and to not allow people to hear from candidates (through election literature) would be undemocractic.
Dana Rosemary Scallon asked why she’s back in. She says she has a real passion to defend the people. She says she really does want to be President.
RT asks her about her comment to Seán O’Rourke on RTE Radio1′s News at One that she would have to learn on the job. She sticks by that and says it’s important to keep learning.
Seán Gallagher is asked about his Fianna Fáil affiliations. Says he did youth work with them and ran election campaigns for two highly-regarded politicians in the past but was never a politician. But he’s not “distancing” himself from the party or its followers.
Martin McGuinness asked why he didn’t consider it appropriate to attend the State dinner hosted by President McAleese for Queen Elizabeth I. His party thought it not appropriate at the time, but if he was President he would take it on board that it would be part of the role.
MMcG liked that the Queen spoke Irish at the dinner and that she went to the Garden of Remembrance. Well, he didn’t say liked, he said he “found it interesting”. But he’s smiling as he says it so it seems a positive thing.
Gay Mitchell drops the first direct punch on another candidate by saying Martin McGuinness is a terrible “name-dropper” (Mandela) etc.
GM takes issue with MMcG on what he calls the country he wants to be President of. Says he calls it the 26 Counties instead of Ireland. MMcG refutes that.
GM says he is a nationalist – and says people shouldn’t be called West Brits when the role is about uniting people.
GM is being asked by Ryan if he is not on the backfoot in the polls when he should be leading them as the FG candidate. He says polls are not a good indicator of eventual results.
A question about a letter of clemency now…. but it’s to GM not David Norris. GM says yes, he has written letters looking for clemency for convicted people but it was a question of human rights.
Asked about The Letters, David Norris brings out a letter sent to him (well, an email) by RTÉ about seating arrangements which has a confidentiality warning at the end. He’s using it to say that the point is, he can’t release information which might affect someone else (the victim).
“Let’s park this”, he says, and “let me talk about my vision”.
He claims we’ve had an election but they’ve just changed jerseys and nothing has changed for the Irish people. “The interests of the establishment and the preservation of the system” have been put above the people.
First bit of Gaeilge is dropped, naturally, by Michael D Higgins. It’s a segue into his “independence of mind” point – that he’s not ruled by the Labour Party.
Mary Davis under the spotlight now: What else have you achieved outside of the Special Olympics?
She has worked in China and seen the power of the President – the president of China put his arm around a child with Down Syndrome at the Special Olympics and that sent a major message to his country. That’s the power of a head of state, she says.
She mentions serving on the Council of State, which counsels the President (of Ireland, not China). It has met four times since she has been on it.
MD reasserts her position that she would like to change the name of her potential new home from Áras an Úachtaráin to Áras na Daoine.
RT asks if MDH had not wanted to run previously for the Áras in 2004. Well, yes, but really because I wanted to give direction to the country.
On seeing out the full seven years of the Presidential term, MDH says he broke his knee cap on a humanitarian mission last year but that he’s fit and well.
DRS asked about the possibility that priests would be asked to break the seal of confession to report child abuse allegations. Would she sign in such a law? She says Constitution protects freedom of religion and that it does not break the seal of the confessional.
She’s getting annoyed at Ryan for putting her in the box of “being the mouthpiece of the Catholic Church”. “Why are you putting this (question) to me?”
Ryan T asks Seán Gallagher the same question about breaking the seal of the confessional.
Point blank, SG says it should be broken in those circumstances.
Martin McGuinness asked the same question: he also believes it should be broken in those circumstances. He is “absolutely disappointed” as a Catholic in the fact that the bishops haven’t even met to discuss the Cloyne report.
Mary Davis “absolutely” believes that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry and adopt children.
Seán Gallagher is “not sure” about the “adoption issue” for same-sex couples because he doesn’t feel informed enough about the effect on children. “That’s not a bias”, he says, “I’m just not informed enough” to decide.
David Norris asks why he wasn’t asked about the priests. So Ryan asks him.
He “abhors” child abuse, and that it is clear that the rule of Church must be subservient to the rule of law as set by the Oireachtas.
DRS – cheered on by DN – says that the guaranteeing of the banks has been the most influential piece of legislation passed in 7 years because it has caused such suffering.
The seven candidates are allowed to speak a final summation of what they have to offer as President of Ireland:
Michael D Higgins: I have the skills, the vision, I have experience of tolerance, and have a record of performance. I love Ireland and I am deeply committed to “its potential, its skills, its genius”.
Seán Gallagher: I want to bring the same youth and dynamism that has been seen in the Presidency over the last 21 years. I bring experience, I will lead trade missions to attract business and tourism. I will work to bridge the gap between community and enterprise together. I wants young people to come back to Ireland with confidence.
Dana Rosemary Scallon: You can trust me to protect the Constitution and the people. I have experience in the European parliament. “I respect everyone that I meet.”
Mary Davis: “I want to demonstrate that people matter, all people mattter.” Respect and dignity to every single person. I want to work with our global Irish and to repair our reputation abroad. In my first 100 days, she would contact the Taoiseach to see how best he could put me to use as an ambassador.
Martin McGuinness: We need a new Ireland, a new republic, and a new leader. I have been central to some of the most important agreements on the island – I want to bring that unifying experience to the Áras. And also to the “brokenness of people”.
David Norris: I’ve made a comeback, I’ve shown it can be done – “I believe I can bring the country with me.” Mental health aware, enterprise, culture – those are three cornerstone missions of my campaign.
Gay Mitchell: I have a fighting spirit. I worked on the floor of the Inchicore Works as a young man and went to college at night – you can see Inchicore Works from the study of the Áras – I will make my country proud at this very difficult time.
And that’s it folks. The first live television debate of the Presidential 2011 campaign. There wasn’t much infighting – but perhaps that’s a difficult ask with so many candidates in one space.
If you’d like to review the body language of the evening, here are some shots of the debate in action:
And some more…
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Good to see that our right to protest if we feel strongly about something has not been attempted to be prevented. Right or wrong it is their rights whether any of us like it or not. But it’s clear that the media are on the side of the governments misinformation. What ever happened to honest unbiased journalism.
@John Doyle: Statutory Instrument 326 of 2020 which was brought in recently is designed to quell protests. This is the reason a lot of people turned up today (many barristers also)
@Anna Anna: what you forgot to mention it is a temporary restriction for public safety measure due to covid. Also listed are gatherings of x amount of people. Weddings, football. You make it sound like draconian measure.
@John Doyle: I have to agree. There are growing voices of dissension yet instead of answering the hard questions the people in power continue to try and discredit any dissenters.
It seems you’re only allowed have one opinion in Ireland now and that was the case long before Covid
@Thomas: temporary 2 weeks restrictions to flatten the curve last March.. temporary lasts as long as they decide it lasts
@SquintEastwood: the laws came in to force on 31st of AUG. So your “2 week flatten curve “. When was the curve flattened?
@Anna Anna: many barristers? Name some of them…
@Anna Anna: Any solicotors, judges or gardaí?
@Anna Anna: If many barristers ?? they are careful to remain out of sight & media…
@John Doyle: Funny but during water protests guards were instrumental in disrupting the protests. Guards had no problem in arresting striking workers concerning Debenhams or the housing/ homeless protests .Jobstown? Where were the guards at this protest.
@John Doyle: it’s great that we have freedom of speech and the right to protest. It’s not great that as an admin worker in the HSE I’ve been told I’ll probably be heading back to the testing centres because gowls like these are upset with being told what’s best for them and their loved ones. I’ve seen people come through the testing centres that have died from this, I personally know people who have died from it and I will lose other people I know to it. Sad to think we’ll mostly likely see a further spike in the coming weeks.
@John Doyle: John why don’t you and the rest of the anti maskers out there sign a declaration that you won’t burden the health care system if you and your family catch this virus.
It’s embarrassing that this lot wrap themselves in the Irish flag, they’re the complete opposite of patriotism
@Mark:
The government are playing a dangerous game Mark, by equating everyone who is at these marches with extreme nutters, and in addition by making continual references to the tricolour as they do.
This is legitimising the national flag as a political weapon, a symbol of division, when it should be something that unites all of us.
As we see from the polarised situation in the US, when one side waves the national flag, the other side starts burning it.
If we get to that position here, I would imagine that the majority would be on the side of those waving the flag.
@Garry Coll: how is it a dangerous game to call nutters what they are? They’re nutters, end of
@Mark: I’d love to have been there today, they are completely unhinged, why are the Garda letting this go on? This needs to stopped, their unhinged views need to be stop, calling everyone pedos etc, ah man they need a wake up call, the Garda in riot gear should have put manners on them
@Mark:
You can call them whatever you want Mark, everyone is entitled to their point of view.
The Taoiseach is in a different position, he needs to be a leader for everyone, and to make comments as divisive as he has places him in a very awkward spot.
The science on every aspect of the pandemic is not at all fixed, really well respected and highly qualified people in the fields of science and medicine have totally divergent opinions on the various issues, which leaves ordinary people in a state of confusion.
So his comments on the national flag, and equating people with genuine concerns along with the head the balls, have done more harm than good.
I agree that our views must be suppressed…why the Gardaí don’t just give us all a good hiding for protesting the unending Covid restrictions is beyond me…
@Brian McNamara: if a group argues against basic science they can hardly expect much of a platform, if I held a demonstration to argue that a balanced diet and exercise is bad for you I can’t expect to have everyone’s ear
@Micheal:Haven’t the Aussies banned them. We need more of that here.
@Garry Coll: “everyone is entitled to their point of view.” where did you get that crap from from? The nazi’s were also entitled to their view of who lives and dies? are these pr*cks also entitled to choose who lives or dies?
“The science on every aspect of the pandemic is not at all fixed,” ? exactly the fecking point. we don’t know so stop putting people’s lives at risk if you don’t fecking know what you are doing.
@Garry Coll: Point of view, yes, but not when their actions endanger the welfare and lives of others.
@Garry Coll: garry, the lot of them are utter fruitloop.
The government don’t need to label them, the vast majority of Ireland see them as fruitloops.
@Mark: they are anifia which is a far left terror org. which have support from SF and the other leftie commies
@Mark: what basic science?
@Brian McNamara: ie: masks reduce the spread of respiratory droplets and the sky is blue
@Mark: Really? I wonder why the WHO and government said they don’t help at all and healthy people should not wear them…I suppose if you’re coughing and spluttering then wearing one might help a bit but in that case you’d be better off at home anyway.
@Mark: what is the definition of patriotism. It’s being mentioned a lot in comments.
It’s an emotive term that can have many interruptions. So a clear definition please.
@Tony Lewis: not endangering the lives of the elderly would be a start
@Garry Coll: The only ones burning Irish flags are orange thugs who put them on their 12 July bonfires.
@James Walsh:
Most people James, from that perspective are hugely respectful towards the beliefs and traditions of other faiths. There is of course a minority whose actions garner the most publicity.
However those from a politically progressive and Marxist perspective have respect for no-one and for not a single element of the JudeoChristian moral framework on which the constitution of this country is based.
Debate with me all you want, but there is a greater enemy out there, one that tries to conquer by division.
Life may be tough now, but the alternative is so much worse.
@Mark: there’s nutters everywhere. I saw thousands of them in Dublin yesterday. These were common or garden variety wearing masks while walking along O’Connell street. Yep, outdoors, wearing masks. Can you believe the pointlessness of that?
@Mark: that is the saddest part, really… they see the Irish flag and call themselves “Nationalists” without knowing what that really means. It’s a very dark time for the world.
Btw. It wasn’t hundreds in was in the thousands. And there was two protests no one. More and more taking exceptions to been made prisoners on their own home restricted in their travel and not allowed into dying relatives in hospital. If masks worked why will they still not let people into hospitals to visit ?
@Tom Jones: as much as your echo chamber may convince you you’re right, people with views like yours are in an unbelievably tiny minority and being loud on the internet doesn’t change that.
So whinge away, no ones listening to nuts
@Tom Jones: nobody said masks are 100% foolproof, do you really believe that’s why we should wear masks? Really? So this is the level of intelligence from these protesters, lord help us!
@Steve Monk:
The ignorance and willingness to believe utter and blatent tripe is staggering.
@Tom Jones: Seeing as my comment concerning the masks was removed from earlier, I will try again.
Tom, please go and check how long it took us to reach a daily newly confirmed case of 300, when this first started. 6 months ago. Then compare it to how long it took for us to reach daily newly confirmed cases of 300 this time around, since the largest lifting of restrictions on June 29th. Then take the following into account:
1) This time around, we only hit a daily 300 mark once.
2) Only symptomatic cases were tested 6 months ago. Now we are also testing close contacts who are not showing symptoms as well as symptomatic cases.
The biggest difference was introducing the masks. The numbers do not lie. They are doing what they are meant to do, and restrict the transmission of the virus.
@Mark: I really dont think this opinion is the minority anymore.
@Craig Halpatranags: and the thought of that is scary
@Craig Halpatranags: I’m yet to meet anyone in real life who thinks like this, they just dominate internet comment sections
@Craig Halpatranags: I actually do know someone who with these opinions it turns out. Old school friend, posts this stuff on Facebook often, spent the entirety of secondary school sniffing glue in the jacks.
@Tom Jones: Tom, if you were having open heart surgery would you be happy for the surgeon and the operating theater team to go maskless? – I think not!
They wear masks to protect you during during surgery when you are vulnerable to infection.
It might also be that family and close friends visiting you after could be asked to wear masks during the initial healing process.
I know I visited a friend in a burns unit and had to wear a mask and gown….
so the principal of masks to help protect vulnerable people from infection is already well established, and long before covid-19 appeared. Just some people have never been exposed to the idea, same as I had never until visiting a friend in the burns unit.
However I do agree that visiting in hospital and nursing homes could be allowed if people are wearing proper masks properly. Many of the home made masks and the cheap re-usable ones, do not have a nose pinch system and are not suitable, Other people just do not know how to wear a mask properly and therefore masks and other face coverings are not as effective as they should be. And there are those who wear the mask at “inspection” and them pull it down after – so those could be a concern of hospital and nursing home if visitors pull down their masks while inside and visiting, like when eating the patients grapes.. and what about the “I cannot wear a mask” brigade demanding access – so maybe it is easier just to stop visitors than deal with all those potential rule breakers.
@Craig Halpatranags: a few thousand fruitloops verse 5 million people yeah that not the minority. Can you please let us know who your maths teacher was so we can sack him for incompetence
They want to “suppress” the virus now? Good luck with that. It made sense to avert hospitals being overwhelmed, but the virus isn’t going to go away if we only let 100 people get infected each day. At this place, it will take 10 years before we can see our friends and family again.
It’s as if the government wanted to reduce road deaths by only allowing us to drive once a year. I mean, technically it would work, but at what price?
Anti mask protesters are making more sense every day.
@Giovanni Giusti: at this *pace
@Giovanni Giusti: 100 per day? We should be so lucky! Its 120 + most days at the moment. Breached 200 several times, and 300 once so far. But sure, we were told no need to panic when we telling people be careful when the cases started to rise from the single figures / low teen days at the start of July to low 20s and so on, 10 days after the largest lifting of restrictions on 29 June.
@Joe_X: And % of cases versus number of tests? and re the largers numbers Clue : Do you know what day Sat and Sun figures are published?
On a postive note the curve has been well flattened. And Total Deaths this year are well below the previous 4 years.
@Micheal O’Cleirigh: why? Do you? Now do know the percentage of deaths to cases detected. As for yearly death toll, I would hope it eoll be down this year, there was not a road death or workplace accident seeing as everyplace was locjed in for 3 months
@Joe_X: that was meant to read ” do you know”
@Joe_X: I do know. And no need to hope it is true and alot more thank road and workplace https://twitter.com/Thorgwen/status/1303658194066124801
@Micheal O’Cleirigh: yes I saw that on a report yesterday….a debunking report
@Joe_X: I will wait to see that…..:) Debunking the CRO figures…
@Giovanni Giusti: I’d Gladly wait ten years to see my friends and family again then never seeing then ever again.
@Giovanni Giusti: Personally I want to keep my mother alive as long as possible. I guess you don’t
@Micheal O’Cleirigh: They weree debunking the July figure in particular. You should really have a read of it!
@Joe_X: Sure I said I would wait to see it? (are you unable to post a link)
If you read the comment on the tweet she did say even if they added 1000 to the July figure,,,or just take july out of it figures are well below other years
@Micheal O’Cleirigh: yes I cant post links. I presume reason being I am not here long enough.
@Joe_X: It might also do with the fact I keep hitting wrong buttons, like I just did. It was on yesterdays journal articles. If you scroll down the home page you will see it.
@Trevor Donoghue: I want my mother to live, not to spend her last 10 years in prison together with the rest of the country. And guess what, I’m not under the illusion that an 80 year old is going to live forever.
These people who listen Ben Gilroy and Gemma O’Doherty won’t listen to sense. All sensible people can do is heed the advice and stay away from these people
@Mal Swan: just because they are lions and extremists. Does not mean they are wrong. Discrediting the people does no discredit the argument
@Tom Jones: Both of them Lions (bwahahahahahahahahahahaha) havent been right about a thing in their life. Aw man thank you so much for the laugh, Lions bwhahahaha…..
@Tom Jones: is this thing allowed out unsupervised?
@Tom Jones: they are a tad silly
@Tom Jones: except when the argument is wrong.
@Tom Jones: that’s an insult to lions, my are smart noble creatures unlike your lot
@Mal Swan: I agree but unfortunately they return to our communities and spread viruses
@Tom Jones: “Discrediting the people does no discredit the argument”
They have no argument, they hold signs up saying 5G caused this, what kind of argument is that? A 5 year old would know its ridiculous.
@Mal Swan: good you sensible folks stay away and we’ll all be happy^^
When such illogical, nonsensical information and instructions are given by government ‘experts’, many have been forced to do their own research and find truthful facts.
@S.Inging: listen if you have to go into the bowels of the web to ‘find’ your info, it’s probably not wise.
@Lucy Legacy: relying on mainstream media for truthful facts is even less wise.
@Lucy Legacy: you don’t have to. All you have to do is listen to the chairman of the Dail covid committee and watch the sessions that they are doing. Normally on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. They are interviewing experts from all over the world. They’re advice is that lockdowns don’t work. Why because to suppress the virus you have to have a permanent lockdown. Do you really want to stay in the situation we are in now permanently. There is no way out if you want to suppress the virus. Oh and by the way you also kill the economy when you do it.
@great gael of Eire: so the big bad governments, scientists and experts in pandemics of the world have a vested interest in destroying their economies and making nations miserable? Think about it.. what’s in it for them. Actually no.. wait a minute. I don’t want to hear a response to that
@S.Inging: “many have been forced to do their own research and find truthful facts.”
Yes and now we have fools in town with signs saying 5G (a frequency) is giving them a respitory disease, or that Soros is funding all this just to brain wash people.
@Lucy Legacy: you mean like scientific journals?
@great gael of Eire: you need help
Get the water cannon out & spray them, numpties
@Looney Tunes: slurry spreader would be better
@Looney Tunes: nasty authoritarian streak in you…did you say the same about BLM protests?
@Brian McNamara: trying to make me feel guilty?
@Looney Tunes: trying to make you see sense.
@Brian McNamara: go to bed, you’ve enough wine on you
@Brian McNamara: I’m no fan of how the BLM protests have conducted themselves but at least they’re not science denying nuts on par with flat earthers.
There are medical experts on both sides of the argument. So how about rather than the predictive modeling we look at how a country like Sweden that did not take these restrictions and see how much worse off they are….. oh … wait a minute they are no worse off!
@Chris Davy: People holding Sweden up as a good example are demonstrating huge ignorance. It cannot be compared directly to Ireland, it is too different in too many ways. Demographic and cultural differences. It can be compared to its neighbours and compared to them, it’s done badly.
@John Carberry: As always the devil is in the detail and Sweden’s elderly population in care homes, unfortunately took the brunt of the pandemic. A country with a similar demographic like Belgium has the strictest lockdown with a similar proportional number of deaths. In the long run every country will have similar figures and the the ones with the least restrictions and no masks will have the least collateral health and economic damage.
@Chris Davy: Wtf are you on about? Sweden has case rate 2.5 times our rate and a massive death rate 3 times what ours is and they only have twice the population of us. If anything, we are doing far better than Sweden is but the facts don’t seem to be your strong point.
@Ian Breathnach: You need to look at the detail…age structure Sweden has 2,002,557 persons above 64 years old https://countrymeters.info/en/Sweden
Ireland has 551,023 persons above 64 years old
https://countrymeters.info/en/Ireland
As I’m sure you are aware of the mean age of deaths with/from(and Ireland some presumed) Covid you can manage the rest of the maths.
@Ian Breathnach: I think you are a little out of date. As of 31st Aug 2020 Ireland’s incidence rate is higher than Sweden. The death rate in both countries in the last 14 days is 0.1 per 100,000.
Check the latest facts before engaging your thumbs!
@Chris Davy: 2 times our population, over 3 times our covid deaths… they are worse off. They had access to the same numbers from Italy and Spain, as our government did when they did the predictive modeling, yet decided not into any form of lockdown. Our government was not willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of our vunerable. The Swedish government obviously was. Either that or they didn’t take the reports seriously
@Micheal O’Cleirigh: Their percentage of over 64 is on a par with other Scandinavian countries, yet they did much worse.
@Chris Davy: They are worse off, their chief medical expert even said they made a mistake trying to go for herd immunity but continue lying on the internet were it takes a whole 10 seconds to prove you wrong.
@Joe_X: Sure we can look at many countries if you like…But there he was comparing Ireland V Sweden and you have said re Ireland V Sweden ” 2 times our population, over 3 times our covid deaths… they are worse off. ” again when talking about Ireland V Sweden you should also consider age structure your statement is incorrect when you allow for it. ( and I’m sure you know why it is factor that must be included)
@Chris Davy: They are far worse off than the EU nations that did take precautions. Why are you so blind to the facts?
@Micheal O’Cleirigh: What wrong michael. I have compared them to Ireland population wise and to their had we the same percentage of deaths, we would be looking at another 1000 people in their graves.I also factored in their scandanavian neighbours percentages of age wise. In niether situation did they come out well. Not all deaths are elderly. One of the first was a Co. Cork farmer in his 40s
@John Carberry: That’s complete nonsense, I lived in Sweden, they’re not a pack of weird hermits, live their lives like us; they go to work, they travel on public transport, they go to the super market, they play sports, they socialise in cafes and bars, Swedish children go to school……
What “differences” are you alleging exist that causes the virus to act differently in Sweden – there are none, the virus doesn’t respect “demographics” and “culture”.
@Joe_X: But Sweden’s daily infection rate is now half Ireland’s and one third EU average; our infection and death rates are catching up with Sweden’s – their strategy was always going to lead to higher infection rate early on and citing higher early infection/death rates is misleading, that would always happen with their strategy, but their strategy also lead to the fall off that we’re seeing now.
@Joe_X: That is what is wrong camparing populations of 2 countries when the age structure is vasty different gives you a misguided analysis. The Mean age in Ireland is 84. – (the range is 17 to 105).Not sure why you are having difficulity with it…..
@Fintan Mac Giolla Pharic: We succeeded in flattening the curve, and even though the numbers ae climbing on all the KPI’s, they are doing at a way slower rate, due to the wearing of masks in my opinion, which in turn is giving our medical staff a fighting chance at saving as many as they can. Their current daily infection detection rate may be half ours, but they did it at the cost of more vunerable deaths. We did not have a covid related death for 15 days thankfully and since the end of that good streak, they have been intermittant, but Sweden are still consistantly reporting deaths unfortunatly. Also we seem to be performing more tests per capita. To reach a death rate comparable to Sweden’s per capita, we would need another 1000 deaths, and that is not acceptable.
@Micheal O’Cleirigh: but I also compaed them to thier neighbours where the age profiles are similar. They do not fare well against those either.
The problem is over the last few months people have become more divided then ever. Since the word go there has been any amount of misinformation and other things that it has become incredibly difficult to know what to believe in any more. The truth is somewhere in the middle i expect, but people have seemed to choose a side and wont listen anymore to anyone who might be talking sense. I expect to see more of this until some sort of normality comes back.
@mark connolly: There will never be normality in Ireland again if the far right are allowed to batter anyone they want without the Garda doing anything.
@mark connolly: mark the two sides are:
1. There is a deadly virus possibly worse than Spanish flu
2. There is no need to lock us up and ignore all other causes of death except covid.
Both mean well but one is right and one is wrong and the media and government aren’t doing their job.
Hundreds marching … I saw thousands outside the Journal office in Dublin today…
@Philip Martin: I’d say at least 80 thousand!
@Philip Martin: i saw meeelions
@DJ François: 52 million marched
@Helen McKernan: At least a trillion lads!
@Philip Martin: There were up to 10,000 on the March through the streets of Dublin. Anyone who doubts this ..look at the video on Yellow Vest Ireland (Wexford) fb page. The Journal is engaging in fake news.
@Carmel Gaynor: 10 thousand my a@se! You obviously can’t count but that doesn’t surprise as you lot are completely th! ck!
Selfish selfish people.
@T Dawg: yes. Healthy people who won’t wear a mask so that you can feel safe are real selfish
@Tom Jones: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/us/mask-protests-1918.html This article about the “anti-mask league” during the Spanish Flu shows how ignorance dooms history to repeat itself.
@Tom Jones: I hope nobody close to you gets it. I also hope you mature a little bit as you get older!
@Tom Jones: That doesn’t sound selfish to you? Why would you not want to make people feel safe? They don’t know that you’re healthy, and in fact, you don’t know that you’re healthy.
I am fatigue over this half arse lock down. It was too little and too late at the beginning. The cat is out of the bag. The government should look at the alternatives, like considering resuming normal life style and preparing to deal with outbreak just in case. May be build temporary hospitals etc. The depression and recession kills people more than the virus at this stage. I’m with thee protestors. Make the right decision, not the make me looking good decision.
The pictures and videos show thousands not hundreds protesting so it looks like the virus propaganda machine has the media under its thumb.
@Michael Maher: Did you count?
@Joe_X: Thousands Joe thousands
@Michael Maher: Millions surely???
All clowns
Nobody needs to discredit the health minister , he does that all for himself . So much so the department of health had to hire a PR company to further petrified us into compliance with some crazy & totally disproportionate restrictions in a democracy.
And Are you kidding me? You quoted The walking disaster that is the health minister praising the journal ? What an endorsement.
If you trust the government to take the right actions due to a bunch of valid reasons facemasks in crowded places and social distancing are also adviced by international health bodies. Actually most high profile medical experts sharing some basic recommendations. There is no reason to follow the advice of random YouTube dude other than his advice is more convenient.
A tale of 2 cities. It’s kinda worrying and weird how the anti- maskers seem to associate our flag with their lunacy. As if they are more Irish than the rest of us who are trying to protect our fellow citizens. Makes no sense
@Tom Jones: masks reduce the viral load so yes, they do indeed work.
@Tom Jones: one day you’ll need to tell you’re grandchildren that you spent a pandemic arguing against public health advice like a petulant child
@Mark: Do you realise that is not an argument?
@Tom Jones: you know what an asymptomatic case is? Obviously not. By the way…I’ve heard tgat argument before. That you Mars?
@Mark: Judging by his ridiculous comments he is only a child himself.
@Tom Jones: eh hello… asymptotic??? You know this surely or I’m off to bang my head against a brick wall.
@Tom Jones: “As a healthy person I have no need to wear a mask but you want to feel safe so your happy”
You can feel healthy and still have Covid and pass it on, thus the requirement for masks indoors or in big groups.
@Lucy Legacy: The flag, sadly, represents more sinister undertones but the protest itself purports to protect ‘irish health freedom’, hence the flag. It’s all the other stuff that goes with their use of the Irish flag as a symbol that is worrying.
@Lucy Legacy: Don’t bang your head off the wall, I know how you feel…they are quite infuriating….no point leaving them get to you that much…..
@Marcus: very unlikely…you need to be coughing and in an enclosed space with someone for around 15 mins.
@Tom Jones: dont be a selfish person and protect somebody who maybe might not be as lucky or healthy as you. Just because you cant see someones illness does not mean they are not ill. This is the whole point – its not about you
Órla, don’t you guys at the Journal ever get embarrassed at being such lackeys for the government? And you’ve lazily conflated two separate and distinct protests. Maybe if you had of been out and about amongst the plebs instead of waiting for the Minister to call you’d know that.
These protests will always get tagged with “far right” labels, but today everyone I know who learned of the protests wasn’t shunning them at all. However, these same people were outraged at August’s protest.
I think golf gate, Sweden, those PCR articles, that Prime Time airing with the doctor talking about living, more dissension in Government and fatigue have all changed public opinion now… Even for the many terrified of the virus… They just want the daily nagging and overbearing measures to stop.
@Craig Halpatranags: Have you lost anybody in the virus .You would not be saying this if you had .Jesus Gemma Doherty’s movement is growing .And they are v dangerous
@Craig Halpatranags: Have you lost anybody in the virus .You would not be saying this if you had .Think again what direction the people who say there is none or its a hoax. Cop on
@Craig Halpatranags: Have you lost anybody in the virus .You would not be saying this if you had .Think again what direction the people who say there is none or its a hoax.
@Craig Halpatranags: Have you lost anybody in the virus .You would not be saying this if you had .Think again what direction the people who say there is none or its a hoax
@Tom Jones: you know what I am so sick of people like you that will keep us all restricted for even longer by falling all over each other today. I’ve lost my job of 18 years over Covid, have had sick friends and relatives and don’t blame anyone. It’s a bloody pandemic. Grow up you’re embarrassing yourself
@Lucy Legacy: well said Lucy
@Lucy Legacy: a pandemic that causes the death of 2 people with serious underlying conditions every odd week .. step back and see what we are actually dealing with .
Why not talk with the same hysteria about illnesses that causes a lot more deaths .. heart disease , cancer , suicides ?
@Joe_X: CSO has said numbers were inflated
@james foley: and Leo confirmed similar on Twitter
@james foley: Care to share the link? To my knowlegde it was HIQA, sorry but I can’t post links.
@Joe_X: I actually thought the same originally and got corrected.. either way do you think RIP .IE is the correct forum to use when determining such a claim. If it is CSO, I am horrbly disappointed in them.
And giving literally hundreds of millions of euros to hospital and beef billionaires ISINT eroding public confidence?
Wait and see another exceptional spike in numbers after these bell ends and there protesting
@Tom Harpur Photography: yeah, because that’s what’s happened after every other protest that’s taken place..
@Tom Harpur Photography: Like the BLM protest at the height of the pandemic?
It amazes me reading these comments to see the absolute hatred here. When BLM had a protest of the same size back in the height of the pandemic there wasn’t such bile being written. This is happening all over the world where people have had enough. I suppose though it doesn’t say much for Ireland, with the latest government opinion poll. Governments all over the world, including Ireland, have misinformed people, gone against WHO health advice in cases and have sent their countries down a path of what return? These people have a right to protest! And the only people spinning in their graves as the TD put it, are the people who fought through extremely tough times and made the best of it! Well to be fair i think thay would be laughing at what a soft nation we have become.
@Madethyme: irrelevant and false equivalence.
@DJ François: really? Please explain
I dont think Donnelly is up to the job. i agree that govt messages are confusing. and then along come these clowns to add insult to injury. the blend of govt ineptitude along with this kind of reckless libertarianism is a recipie for disaster
@Tom Jones: I love how he’s “Lyin’ Leo” until he says something which you can twist into your own alternative fact.
No one takes anytime Donnelly says seriously anymore
Much admiration from Northern Ireland – You guys have a lot of guts, well done.
It’s two fingers to all frontline workers…. my blood boils
Comments closed on the gangs destroying balbriggan. I wasn’t allowed put their colour in the comment.
This is not popular by what the hell. Walk around anywhere and one observe gangs of up to 15- 30 of a certain age walking around in groups with no masks and absolutely NO social distancing . So as to prevent calls of discrimination masks should be made compulsory ( and legally enforceable subject to fines) in ALL outdoors spaces for the next six weeks and see where the numbers go. Also maintain the current restrictions on house parties. Bet the numbers drop precipitously
@Paul Ryan: why would you want to make masks mandatory outdoors? It doesn’t make any scientific sense, unless you’re in a very high foot traffic street. It’s because of this type of extreme views by some of the public that the government gets away with totally ridiculous & abusive policies and laws. There are many reasonable people in the middle ground that abide by reasonable rules but that are rightly so at the end of their tether with truly abusive restrictions. No other country in Europe has these draconian rules in place still , except the U.K.
Stephen Donnelly arrived at politics to make a change a couple of years ago and very quickly he got sucked in to the normality of what exists in Irish politics.
Now he’s a Muppet and he doesn’t even realise it
@Mikey Hawk: a rich one
100′s is a large protest? Complete sensationalising BS.
@Paul Mcnevin: there was thousands there. And two marches. They are trying to minimise the protest
@Tom Jones: One march wasn’t yours. In fact the march you are defending attacked members of the 2nd if reports I have read are true
More frustration and heartbreak for frontline workers on the way
What’s really crazy is that some people were wearing masks at this anti mask march!
@Niall McNamara: Only so the Garda and others couldn’t photograph them, they’re being outted on Twitter as I type this.
Giving hospital barons and beef barons literally hundreds of millions of taxpayers euros ISINT eroding public confidence ?!!
Bunch of #maskholes. The smaller march had far right thugs outside the Dail all masked up, pretend patriots wrapping the flag around a wooden club.
Why are these tinfojl hat individuals waving the Tricolour? Seems almost compulsory for sillies these days. A shame.
@Proinsias Ó Fearghail: They’re trying to get Irish people on board, which is odd since they also bring in British EDL members.
At that far right demonstration in Dublin today, Izzy Kamikaze had her head split open by a far right thug.
@Andrea Brown: He advocates for violent action against those he calls fascist. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Deputy Eoin O Broin is 100 per cent. right .Some of the people who turned out to protest against the government regulations re Covid are thugs and fascists .Indeed a sizeable amount of them are.They are also linked in a bizarre way to the. supporters of Trump.There is something very worrying going on here .Fascism is on the rise in this country .The health minister just sees today as a threat of increasing the virus .Its much more than that.Its a threat to the state by fascists
@Gerry Malone: Add in the English like Rowan Croft, they bring in EDL members for these protests and the Garda know it.
@Gerry Malone: I totally agree. While there were some genuine people there today, protesting solely on this issue,many are the same bunch showing up again and again. Draped in Irish flags, fancying themselves as the new generation rebels for Irish freedom, many supporting Trump from their online profiles- it is worrying. May I suggest that when this is over we stage a counter protest to remind them of their numbers and ours. Complacency is dangerous. We’ve seen this with our neighbours in the Uk and across the Atlantic
Comment is toxic no that march is toxic CL OWNS
As someone in a public service job, cushioned from the effects of this virus financially, its easy to follow these restrictions and I do.
Those making the decisions are also paid by the state ans cushioned also, time to listen more closely to the private sector, maybe they have had enough
There were no incidents? LGBTi activists were attacked and one woman had her head split… wtf is going on with this homophobic reporting?
@Dr Pablo Rojas Coppari: here you go https://www.facebook.com/iwmpaf/videos/422996562010959
@Dr Pablo Rojas Coppari: from what I read I believe that was a different protest in Kildare street. I’m not too sure but I think there were two separate protests today? No idea what the Kildare street was for but what happened to Izzy was absolutely vicious & horrible.
@Dr Pablo Rojas Coppari: yeah, the Journal are known for their homophobic reporting lol
@Isabel Oliveira: you are right. There were 2 demonstrations yesterday. The one that started from the Customs House and accumulated thousands of supporters as it proceeded through the streets of Dublin was a thoroughly inclusive event in terms of age profile, ethnicity, disability and gender. Any attempt to misrepresent it as anything else is fake news. The video can be seen on Yellow Vest (Wexford) Facebook
Trust has already benn eroded by your own duplicity, mixed messaging, illogical measures and behaviours. These protests are just a symptom of that.
Stop trying to deflect
Egg,, Head
Political opponents to Water charges were arrested , Debenham workers moved on or arrested………….
Business owners should take the organisers to court for causing this lock down to continue and get worse. They need to be held accountable.
If you EVER find yourself on the same side as Niall McConnell than you’re on the WRONG SIDE!
Do we have a Health Service here when people with health issues who are more likely too suffer bad outcomes from Coronavirus
Great bunch of lads. https://www.facebook.com/iwmpaf/videos/422996562010959
It is good to see the journal Getting plaudits from Stephen Donnelly for countering dis-information. That couldn’t be the same Stephen, could it, who was still claiming that the €9 meal requirement had been dictated by NPHET days after Ronan Glynn had truthfully stated that it hadn’t? Your “countering dis-information” extends to failing to report the fact that between 6,000 and 10,000 marchers thronged the streets of Dublin to applause from by-standers many of whom swelled the ranks of the marchers. Videos of the crowds are available on Yellow Vest Ireland (Wexford) face book page.It was these numbers that sent shivers up Donnelly and Eoin OBroin’s spines. But you would never guess it from the Journal.ie’s claim that “one group” had proceeded from the custom house to Leinster House!
Seriously, what do these nutters see in Sweden that makes them so confident that it is a nation to hold as a gold standard in how to do things? Why not look at Asian nations that did a far better job with larger populations and took harder restrictions that ultimately got them out of trouble sooner? Or are they really so sad that they have nothing better to do with their day that they go out to fight against the most meaningless of issues as wearing a piece of fabric over their face, as if that is somehow eroding their rights? Their actions are the very things that will lead to more restrictions, and that they are dumb enough not to see that coming is just the icing on the cake.
Can’t stand them. Just can’t.
@Paul Cunningham: well said Paul
@Paul Cunningham: thanks for the wise words Paul. A person might be simply questioning the narrative, moreover questioning the rates of covid cases and deaths in this country, which were exaggerated, and using the right to protest as a means to put the government to task when the views of such people are not considered legitimate by MSM.
A woman been beaten by a group of men with weapons outside Government buildings in front of the Garda.
This is what our country has come to, disgusting.
They love a good flag.
Loopers.
Do we have a Health Service here when people with health issues who are more likely too suffer bad outcomes from Coronavirus
Hard to believe there are so many fools in Ireland. We have become the land of fools, humbugs, liberals, freeloaders, liers, bullys, athiests, begrudgers, law breakers, poisenous snakes, saints and schollars.
The latter two are becomming more thin on the ground year after year.
@Imagine !: don’t forget moaners. There’s a lot of them out there moaning about what we’ve become
Bunch of clowns the lot of em
Very saddened to see this far right fascist nastiness. We, including politicians and experts, are trying to do our best to deal with what is a plague. Important to remember that this is a small number of deluded people and we need to keep it that way. Russian/Trump/ Johnson ethos trying to get a foot hold in Ireland. At least when they protest good chance to find out who they are and track them.
@Woman On the Up: “At least when they protest good chance to find out who they are and track them”
Yeah, that doesn’t sound very facist at all..
@Woman On the Up: christ, track them? What is wrong with you? I think i would have a good look at my own beliefs before judging others there Adolf.
Far right fascists durth of the highest order.Poor frontline workers a kick in the delph from these mùchi dubhs.
UP DA REPUBLIC 32 coming soon.
Mary Jay Blige…
have your say