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AN ENHANCED SCHEME for homeowners affected by the Mica controversy is set to go to Cabinet the week after next, with a possible new redress cap of up to €400,000 per home.
Government sources are keen to stress that there has been no agreement, stating that discussions are still underway.
Campaigners want a scheme to help families whose homes have been destroyed or damaged by mica, a mineral that can absorb water, due to building blocks cracking and crumbling.
The Government has faced criticism for only offering 90% under the current redress scheme, leaving property owners with significant bills to repair or rebuild homes.
Campaigners have blamed a lack of building regulations and oversight of materials.
It is believed that a cap of approximately €400,000 will ultimately be agreed upon.
The sticking point in government now is how the redress scheme will be paid for, with sources stating that Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe is concerned about the overall costs.
Donohoe is understood to have a “hit list” of areas where a possible levy, tax or charge will be applied to pay for the compensation scheme, which could reach €3.2 billion in total.
“Ultimately we will have to pay for it all directly or indirectly,” said one source who indicated that there will be a need for a levy, tax or charge to help pay for the redress scheme.
It is understood that the view of government is that the “many will pay for the few”, but that this has to be done in order to have a humanitarian response to the crisis the families find themselves in.
The thinking in government circles is the bill of around €3.2 billion is “too big” to find the money from elsewhere.
Sources state that there is a need to re-establish the idea that things have to be paid for, particularly with the fiscal emergency measures for Covid coming to an end.
An estimated 5,000 homes in Co Donegal are affected by defective bricks, with thousands more understood to be in counties Sligo, Clare and Limerick.
As the discussions around 100% redress continue, it is understood there is concern that general public might think a flat €400,000 per home might be “too much”, given the scale of a home that could be built in Donegal and other counties for that sum of money.
It’s understood that one solution being discussed might be a limit on the square footage of a new-build under the scheme.
The three coalition party leaders are keen to find a solution that will be acceptable to most people even if it’s not acceptable to everyone, it is understood.
Fine Gael’s Joe McHugh has warned that he is willing to walk away from the party if the government presents a “half-baked” mica redress scheme.
Speaking to Highland, McHugh said he realised there would be “consequences” if he refused to support to Government’s new redress scheme.
“I won’t be standing over a scheme that proved in the past to be a scheme that was half-baked,” he said.
“If we don’t get that right, I won’t be supporting that scheme. Obviously, that has consequences for me.”
The Taoiseach told Today FM this morning that “when government signs off and makes a decision on this, it will be a very comprehensive solution for people”.
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So! Are the government saying… that we the tax payer will have to foot the bill for these peoples houses!? After all my years paying off my mortgage and paying the Local property tax, I’m now looking at paying for someone else’s property???
@Brian Kelly: In short Brian yes, the government that we elect and then we allow this level of incompetence and criminality work in our name. The mistakes of our government become our mistakes, their debts are our debts. In a way Brian, you are the government, as we all are. It’s incredible then that we pay them millions over their short political careers and at the same time fail to demand the highest possible standards from them. The sooner we assert our rights and powers over theirs the sooner this country starts getting better. Until then it’s as you were for the last several decades and we continue like donkeys, making the money and letting others squander it and at the same time line their own pockets. 90% of politicians are Mé Feiners, that’s were the problem lies. You won’t see those crooks on a hellish 2 year waiting list to see a consultant or having to endure any of the other nightmares the average taxpayer on the street has to suffer day in and day out.
@Brian Kelly: No you’re not. You will be paying for a companys cockup. No fault of the homeowners. Zero. Companies should have insurance in place to cover these messes.
@Brian Kelly: the “these peoples” you mention are tax payers too. The government failed to regulate thats why this happened. Just imagine it was your own house that was crumbling and you couldn’t afford to move because of that mortgage that you mentioned your paying. Chances are if it was donegal you bought your house in thats what would be happening
@TrollsRrealpeople2: But we will be paying. May not have been the fault of the home owner but its not my fault as a homeowner or Brian’s or any one else. The companies and insurance companies should be held liable. As for 400000 that’s a ridiculous sum of money.
@Eddie O’Neill: Well said
@Eddie O’Neill: That’s one of the best contributions I’ve seen on this site. Sums up our situation perfectly.
Where does it stop though? Obviously my heart goes out to them, but I dont believe it should be 100% redress. What about the younger people who lost significant money on a property bought in 07/08, or homes that are affected by subsidence? Should the taxpayer be expected to cover 100% of these losses too? I think there should be some help for them (buying materials in bulk and supplying them at cost), but again, it shouldn’t be up to the normal taxpayer to cover it. (Should have been up to the original contractors, but they’ve apparently gone bust)
@Anthony Keenan: Why not do a government sponsored go fund me – at least then we’d know it was a once off rather than another levy.
@Dublin – Overheard: in the governments eyes a government GoFund me is called a cuckoo fund or private publjc partnership
Another levy for the ordinary working man and the quarrys are still open. It pays not to work in this country.
@Peter O Donnell: and woman? We work too.
@Lisa Jones: Karen alert!
@Adrian O’Donnell: misogynist alert!
@Adrian O’Donnell: your comment shows your lack of ability to discuss rationally.. Karen is your go to insult is it?
Where are they going with 400k?? They already own the land the house is currently on so how is the rebuild cost so high?
@Alex McDwyer: Have you seen the size of a lot of the houses in Donegal!
@Reg: doesn’t matter what size they are they still won’t cost 400k what planet are they on
@Alex McDwyer: it’s a cap of up to €400,000… that doesn’t mean everyone is getting €400,000
@Alex McDwyer: 400k is some budget to rebuild the exterior walls of a house in Donegal.
@dublindamo: it would be if it was just the exterior. But most of the houses have mica in the interior and the foundations. A complete demolition and rebuild. But yea you keep peddling the every single house will be getting 400000 euro bs
@johnbrady: I don’t see why the taxpayer should stump up to rebuild a mansion. No problem with a average size house of up to 1300 sq ft
@Alex McDwyer: you also have to take into account demolition and site clearance….a lot more expensive than you’d imagine.
Anyone on the higher rate is already paying far too much tax for almost nothing in return. I feel very sorry for anyone affected by this scandal but the tax payer isn’t responsible and we aren’t a limitless source of money for this hapless government. A tax to pay for this will be a step too far.
The new houses should be built like for like (new blocks obviously) as the old house. Take the windows, roofs, plumbing etc from the old house and install in the new one. Will save thousands of €. If the owners want new windows etc., they pay for it themselves.
More Taxes and Levies will already paying mad money on stuff at this rate we will be left with 20 take home pay by 2028. Sick of this lot developers get away with it again !
@El Poblo Escobar: In the end, a cashless society will mean that your take home pay will be taken in charges by the bank. Commodities will be the currency then. A brave new world. I hope they come up with a side effect free narcotic to keep us all happy.
What have the government done to ensure these blocks/construction supplies are tested regularly to ensure there is no Mica or Pyrite in them going forward?
@El Poblo Escobar: This really has nothing to do with developers and everything to do with government licensed quarries producing blocks etc. That have Mica (or in other cases Pyrite) in them and they’re not being tested appropriately to ensure there are no bad batches in production. It’s down to low/no regulation by government. The quarry companies fold and a new business starts with different principal officers and there’s really no legal recourse for the homeowners. Government has to step up to stop this from happening. The tax/levy should be on quarries/block manufacturers and they should all have to pay annually into a compensation fund.
@El Poblo Escobar: and if they do add a tax for this it’ll never be removed, it’ll have no end date just like the USC
My question to the 3 stogies government of the present is, how much will the companies that manufactured the blocks pay and what about the insurance companies that insured these properties.
And where is the local authority that are responsible for enforcing the regulations.
Another levy, we’re still paying the insurance levy for PMPA insurance and Joe Moore is long dead.
What a bunch of tossers we have running the country.
@Jimmy Kiely: And what a bunch of tossers that keep voting these in-ept cre-t-ins back into power. God is every word considered toxic. Though toxic is a better word to describe this government.
@Franny Ando: Yes I agree, and kept them in power with the last 100 years, they won’t give up the seat of power easily.
The EU set up a 760 billion of a fund in loans and grants to deal with the fallout of the pandemic, how much have our stogies look for so far. ?????
I would love to know just exactly how many Levies (TAX) we pay in Ireland, and how long have they been in place, seems a levy is forever here.
@Brian McDonnell: I know the PMPA insurance bailout levy is in place since the 1970, they keep dreaming them up and we keep paying.
Once again the taxpayer foots the bill. While those responsible live in their palatial homes with their big Pensions intact.
@Ger O’Reilly: I think its obvious its the quarry owners fault.
Maybe possibly the builders who should know by experience the materials they were handling were not up to usual standards.
I don’t know why people here are blaming the government or tax payers?
@Anthony Clark: quarry owner yes but the builders ah come on. A brick looks like a brick. It took 10-20 years for some of them to degrade
Where are the insurance companies in this? Where are the builders in this? Builder/material supplier goes “broke”, shuts down company and opens up another with zero liability. Total farce, and tax payer on the hook again.
If only we had strong leadership that was as willing to go after the people to blame, as they are to go after the tax payer.
@Joshua Walsh: Exactly – if a quarry shuts down – opens with a new name but the same premises, machines, tools, and people. It’s the SAME company – and should not be let off the hook so easily.
Can the tax payer have a say in this after all we’re footing the bill eventually
@Peter Jo: We do have a say. Water charges are a great example of that. Collectively we hold all the power. We just choose not to use it.
It used to be that those who caused damage /wrong were responsible for costs but this new thinking that socialises debt from whoever/whatever has allowed the government to pass the buck to the ordinary person, whether they can afford it or not. This is wrong on so many levels, go after those who profited from these contracts and the incompetent government officials who failed to apply standards in the building industry, it seems far to many contractors were allowed to build (sic) developments which later transpired to be unsafe because they set their own standards. The taxpayer should not be the fall guy when it all goes pear shaped.
Why isn’t the property tax paying for this?. If not what is it for ? . If not how about the temporary USC tax ?. What is that paying for ?. Genuine questions.
@Michael Dowling: 2020 total LPT tax take was €488m. This redress sheme is estimated to cost €32bn
@Elaine Phelan: *3.2bn*
@Steve Chalk: sorry, you are correct. It still can’t be covered by LPT though
Complete farce – nothing to do with Taxpayers / problem should absolutely not be foisted upon them.
Whatever happened to HomeBond?
@Sequoia: exactly, I worked in construction and all I ever saw homebond Inspectors do was shine a torch in the attic and check under the sink.
How about we dip into the foreign aid budget this year and use it as domestic aid?
So the taxpayer gets bent over again, if the government give into their demnds for 100% redress then the government need to use all available fixtures from the original house and, more improtantly, put the works out to tender rather than let them use their mates carry out the work (and charge over the odds). The government also need to sue the insurance companies, any project managers and other professionals involved in the original build and at least try and recoup some of the taxpayers money going to pay for this madness, 400,000 per house, crazy.
Here comes the government with their tactics of division yet again.
This scandal is founded in government incompetence, can we be assured that on this very day that all the regulation that the government is responsible for is taking place or should we start a levy now for the next government screw up?
My understanding of this is that the county councils in question were ultimately responsible for monitoring the quality of these materials and didn’t do the job? Is that correct? Clearly the quarry, for supplying and selling defective materials, and developers, for using defective materials and building defective houses, must shoulder most of the blame. Has the CIF made a statement on this?
Hahaha pascal looking to put the bill on us not a hope
@Marty Lawless: what is your solution?
@Elaine Phelan: follow the ones that caused this not my problem I shouldn’t have to pay for the mistakes
@Elaine Phelan: Its not up to the tax payer to come up with a solution. Thats the point.
@Vin: thank you vin
I won’t be paying for other people mistakes , insurance company’s , health care companies have all ready added tax to our tax systems . This country is a joke . Property tax for what I live I the country side own water and waste water treatment plant . No street lighting and now they wants us to pay for concrete companies for not carrying out simple testing in there quarries joke
From reading all the above comments there is a big backlash over the tax payer once again footing the bill. I am hoping this is the scandal where the public says enough is enough, time to make those actually responsible pay for their misdeeds and/or incompetence. I just hope people remember come election time that those in power have once again left the perpetrators off the hook, and sent us, the taxpayer, the bill.
Here’s an idea – Make the new levy voluntary.
There seems a lot who want to protest on the streets about 100% redress – let’s see them put their money where their mouth is.
The developers should be paying
How about put a levy on the quarry industry to put some manners on them, they caused the problem not the general public.
Here’s an idea, why not take the tax you’re supposed to be taking from developer, cuckoo and vulture funds, and add a levy to that!
Any quarry, cement maker or block manufacturer involved and still in business shouldn’t be in line to profit with all the rebuilds, supply at cost.
If memory serves me correctly we have a levy after the bailout ie usc, a levy after Quinn insurance along with other levies on insurance went bust and now another levy for this and when and where will it be applied. What a great little country!
I did have a lot of sympathy for the Mica people. Not any more, it’s waning badly.. They have taken the meaning of the phrase, ‘ I’m alright Jack, to Hell with the rest of you’ to new levels. Up to 400k for a new home in Donegal and that is not counting the cost of the land, sewage, water, etc etc which they already own. They have demanded, legal fees, storage fees, accommodation fees and compensation but have never shown the slightest concern as to where that money is coming from. They haven’t even bothered to pursue the banks, insurance, quarries etc etc, let alone engage with us. The more divisive this becomes the more it seems to suit them. Why can’t they just accept, say a nice 200k house, in Donegal. Joe McHugh TD, on principle, is prepared to resign on this issue if the Mica people don’t get full redress. Let’s buy him a dictionary.. Pearse Doherty, as a finance spokes person should know better and Pringle, Who???. Do they not know that this is meant to be a democracy. As of now it is estimated that there could be 14,400 homes affected. 6/7billion. And are the new builds bricks going to be legally tested? The only defence we have now is to email our TD’s.Belarus how are ye!
As soon as I can emigrate out of this dump I am gone. What a cesspit.
Best of luck getting a proper builder when all this kicks off. There is a shortage already. Could be years before these people see the inside of a new home
@John Keane: I’m available for cash
So the government didn’t regulate the banks and the taxpayer had to foot the bill 60 billion and they didn’t regulate the building industry and now the taxpayer has to foot the bill again
@Chris Reidy: yes. Current neo liberal capitalism once again needs a social bail out, as it will do every 15/20 year cycle of greed and wealth hoarding.
Check who you vote for next time around, if they of that ilk then quit with the 3/4/5 down the ballot votes.
Would your proposal then be to allow them default on the mortgage which is what they will do when they can’t live in a house that has crumbled to the ground.
Then the government will have to build a load of houses to house all these people who are now bankrupt and on the housing list.
Meanwhile the banks are left with a load of sites in disrepair, dangerous eyesore but that no one will clear up
@Darren Byrne: what do you mean ?? Do you want us to pick up the tab do you not think we pay enough
@Marty Lawless: it was a reply that didn’t post correctly but the point is society will pay one way or another. You then have to weigh up which you would rather see happening. I think it would be best to keep these people in their homes
@Darren Byrne: grand Darren I wasn’t having a go
Why not do a government sponsored go fund me – at least then we’d know it was a once off rather than another levy.
@Dublin – Overheard: and we can call it thrcronymicrafund
So you don’t have to follow any rules in this country. BANKS, don’t worry about that collapse of the economy the ordinary folks will pick up the tab. BUILDERS, don’t worry about building straw houses, the ordinary folks will pick up the tab. Government need a pay rise don’t worry about it we know who can pick up the tab. Insurance companies can collapse, we just let the rest of us pick it up. Sick of this Government.
Could we put a levy on the door for patrons of night clubs to pay for the redress scheme? :)
The government had plenty of money for everyone else, they took over the regulation and didn’t enforce it, time for heads to roll, a cut in the TDs Pay would be a good way to start ,tax on their numerous pensions, start with them.
Really, can we do anything, anything right in this country , no one is ever to blame and the sheeple pick up the tab for something they didn’t do.
have your say