@Hairy Teeth: No im not saying that, im saying that those either men or women, that have the same qualifications, experience and time served should be on the same.

@Da Dell: what a novel thought. It’s mad that, in the current climate, that’s actually considered as being an unfair perspective. Current social viewpoint…. Men bad, women good …

@lorcmulv: yes exactly, My partner and myself decided not to have children a long while back, for a multitude of reasons, I have what I consider a v good salary and my partner is on more. She along with myself hate quotas and this gender pay malarkey. She has got where she is by putting in the long hrs and going over and above every time. She will say she got to her position on her own volition and hard work, not due to quotas.

@Da Dell: yes, why they don’t do proper analysis about why some people can afford to put in longer hours (=can focus 100% on their career) and why some people can’t afford it because they are burdened by a portfolio of activities/duties that are not career related. I am sure that would bring some interesting insight.

@Daniela Monza: putting in longer hours or having more years experience doesn’t necessarily make you better at the job, getting results is what makes you better. Just because a woman leaves at 5 every day and has 2 years less experience doesn’t mean she won’t be better at the job than someone who works till 9 every day with more experience. In fact she could be much better at the job because of different perspectives she brings. We need to value what actually brings results which will make things fairer and better for all.

@Da Dell: couple of points to note about diversity in the work place.
1. Putting in longer hours does not mean you are better at your job. In fact it could be argued that you are worse as you can’t manage your time efficiently.
2. A good employer respects a person’s work life balance and mental health so if their employees are having to do regular long hours they are failing as an employer.
3. Gender balance in the workplace produces unbiased products environments and services, the tech industry recognised this a long time ago and have come on leaps and bounds to encourage gender balance.
4. If the only reason the pay gap exists is due to family raring this can easily be resolved by giving men equal rights of the opportunity to share the family care.
5. Lots of women are successful and raise children at the same time it requires a support network at home and in work to achieve this perhaps your partner was missing one of these supports so to achieve her career goals she had to sacrifice something. It doesn’t have to be that way but of course its also perfectly fine to choose not to have children but to say she is only successful because she doesn’t have kids is kinda derogatory don’t you think?
6.Women often have their careers or second careers in the second half of their life when they return to work after their kids have grown a bit. Unfortunately there are very little financial supports to allow home carers re-educate themselves. I’ve just been through the system it’s hard. If I was on the dole for a year I can get back to education but if I raised my kids for 10 years I cant get any support except susi if my partners income is low enough . A person who takes a career break to raise a family needs to retrain or refresh before returning to the workplace to go back on a decent wage. This can lead to higher incomes and validate the higher pay and in turn close the gender pay gap. Instead what happens is women return to the workforce in lower paid jobs because they can afford childcare and educational fees on one income while they study. P.s we need parents to spend some time raising their families, it makes for a better society in the future.
7. We need people to have children for societies future and we need women in board rooms and high end jobs. This entire discussion is about finding a way to achieve that.
8. So finally the gender paygap exists which you at least agree with. So instead of saying welll I’m alright Jack my wife earns more than me , other people are thankfully a little more open minded and innovative to realised that it’s not as simple as saying you must pay both genders equally ( because we know that doesnt fix the whole problem) we must take a holistic approach to employment and lifestyle and make tweaks here and there in work and society to create equal opportunities. For the record I also don’t agree with gender quotas it’s lazy , ignorant and uninventive.
Side note if your wife/ partner had to take extended leave to care for you after an accident /illness or nurse an elderly parent would she think it fair that she missed out on a pay rise or promotion that she’d spent 10 years working her a$$ off for.

@Da Dell: everybody who is out for a while don’t have the same experience as someone who is present all the time.
This account for all genders.

@Da Dell: yet women are supposed to rare a family, and fight for equal status. Or put off having kids, for their career sakes. Women bring different things to the table, and that should be acknowledged. They also have to endure inappropriate comments, and sometimes bullying from their male counterparts.the fact that you instantly referred to physical anatomy proves we have a long way to go.

@Colette Byrne: women are not “Supposed to rare a family” have you forgotten “Our body, Our Choice” and yes women do bring a lot to the table and this is why we already have laws on equal pay, status and anti-bullying. The physical anatomy that you mention is a choice used by women to legally take a break from employment to facilitate this choice. This is something that men cannot do thereby creating an inequality in the workplace.

@frank mcglynn: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/young-women-likely-to-be-main-breadwinner-1.10654
I think you’ll find that your view is archaic.

@Jacqueline berry: No it is not. What I have stated above is the reality of the world we live in. Men are still the main breadwinners though more women may now be taking on the responsibility they are still the minority.

@frank mcglynn: I agree, I know of very few, if any, households when the woman is the primary breadwinner and the man takes primary responsibility for the home. This is s choice that people make but results in women being more likely to be content as the second income. When termtime (?) was introduced into the public service it was mostly women who took the summer off unpaid to stay at home with the children. Likewise when job sharing was introduced and shorted working weeks it tended to be women who worked shorter hours to mind children. I am not saying this is right or wrong but rather a statement of fact, based upon my direct experience, that some chose to ignore. I do think things are changing though …

@frank mcglynn: sure, they should also insist that men accept equal responsibility for minding children, elderly parents, the house, organising healthcare for the whole family, etc. It’s surprising how a lot of men still don’t have a clue about how much unpaid work is involved in that. Maybe because they never bothered to do it?

@frank mcglynn: 100% correct the person enabling the high earner by providing free housekeeping, child care and possibly elderly care. But if you take a closer look at the academic studies they do comparisons of people fresh out of college, singletons and conclude there is an earnings gap…….

@Sarah Gannon: Yes, that is the point, there is an earnings gap. The factor in these studies is largely the hours being worked, and nothing to do with gender.

@frank mcglynn:
Step up choice??? Women are primary care givers, many men don’t want that pressure either, but because of societal norms they feel they have to compete in work.
Women juggle home life with work life. You underestimate their worth. Women unlike their male counterparts are very good at multi tasking.
We are still trying to sort out the unjust marriage bar. Where just because a woman got married she wasn’t entitled to go out and work. No pension rights for all the years they worked.
And also more women have higher education but its not reflected in their wages.

@lorcmulv: yip

@Jacqueline berry: it is written into law. As are all the different ways women are supported professionally as primary care givers, job share, shorter working week, maternity leave paid and unpaid. Make it easily available for both parents and hey presto, you’ve closed the gap massively

@Jacqueline berry: Maybe read the article, they covered your ‘equal pay’ comment, which has been enshrined in law since the 70s.
You are way off the mark, any person with 10 yrs experience is going to be on more pay than a newbie, its that mindset that contributes to thinking there is a gender pay gap.
And as many people say, if you don’t like your job, skill up and get something better, don’t be expecting it to be handed to you.

@Jacqueline berry: you are right in in saying that females doing the same job with the amount of time doing it and the same results should be paid the same as males – no one can argue with that but your comment “staying at home with the kids” is not employment related and also means that they are not doing the same hours – these surveys do not take into account that it is primarily females that take such time off and so are not doing the same hours or productivity in the workplace as those that don’t make the choice to take time off.

@Da Dell: when did I say i was expecting anything to be handed to me? I expect equal pay of equal work, but unfortunately this is not always the case for woman. There is a pay gap, not always, but it does exist. Don’t assume I expect anything to be handed to me. I’m currently in 2nd year of an engineering degree so I can “get something better” as you say. I’m also a mother.

@Ger Mooney: that one example that fits your narrative. She me hard evidence, data based, from ireland that shows the lack of a gender pay gap. And don’t include the usual “she’s on maternity leave” “not as qualified” etc. If she does the same job she’s as qualified as he is.

@lorcmulv: you cannot use maternity leave to explain a pay gap. Plenty of fathers now also take maternity leave. So every woman in the workplace is a mother, and no men are fathers based on this logic

@Jacqueline berry: Do men get the same paid time off for paternity leave?

@Jacqueline berry: For example at a low level, I hire a man/woman to work in a warehouse on minimum wage. Fast forward 3 years and they have been rewarded for their loyalty and work ethic and now is on 1.5 times minimum wage. The warehouse is busy and we need and warehouse worker. I higher a man/woman on 1.5 times minimum wage because of equality. My 3 year member of staff hears this and is disgusted. Wants more money because ‘it’s not fair’. It can’t be afforded. They leave the warehouse, I’m down a perfect employee. The new hire doesnt like the job and leaves after 6 months. Equality has greatly upset my business. Equality isnt perfect. Pros and cons every which way.

@Jacqueline berry: Narrative? My narrative is clear that I will support anybody who received less than someone else doing the same job based on their gender. I also never mentioned and wouldn’t mention maternity leave, as I support maternity and paternity leave absolutely. So give over speaking for me please.

I am telling you that you cannot find one case where the difference in pay is based on gender. If there was, it would be illegal. The burden of proof is on the people who keep dragging up this nonsense. It is illegal to pay someone less based on gender, this gap being quoted is a skewing of figures which is not honest, and which suits agendas of focus groups who profit from the division of the genders.

No, if someone does the same job as someone else, they are not as qualified. Qualification comes from meeting certain standards, whether educational or skill based assessment, by a body or institution. Do you read stuff back before you post it? Genuinely?

Tell you what, give me even an anecdotal example in Ireland where someone would get paid less based on their gender and we will have a look at it. I am not saying I can explain it away, I will genuinely look at it and do some research.

@Jacqueline berry: The gender pay gap is a false concept.
If a survey takes 1000 civil servants, 500 men and 500 women, all on the same grade and paid the same. The finding is no gender pay gap. If 100 of those decide to use the shorter working year which means a chunk of unpaid time off or a reduction in weekly salary across all 52 weeks. 80 are women 20 are men. Now there is a gap in the average wage of the 1000, with the women slightly lower as there are more on the shorter working year option. So it is a meaningless statistic because even within this group everyone is still paid the same for the same job.

@Jacqueline berry: As the article clearly states it’s already enshrined in legislation since the mid-70s that men and women must be paid equally. We have to ask therefore why this rate isn’t calculated, the statistic is there, it’s available and illegal to deviate from it. Instead they chose a bizarre calculation guaranteed to give a desired outcome.

@Jacqueline berry: it IS written into law. Since the 1970s.

@Sonia Fitzpatrick: You mean those sad people who come on here and indulge in name calling because they lack the intelligence to discuss issues on their merits.

@frank mcglynn: No Frank I don’t mean that at all.

@Fiona O’ Dwyer: Yes Fiona I agree, very defensive and aggressive for supposedly a social issue (unequal pay) that does’nt exist.

@Sonia Fitzpatrick: So you come on to a comment section where people discuss issues, you cry against a gender pay gap that does not exist and then precede to generalise that the male commentators as being Neanderthal. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?

As with your fellow sleeptalker Jaceuline Berry, you have put no evidence forward, not a shred, none of you have, not one case where the reason for a different rate of pay was gender.

I again point to another case, the American women’s soccer team. They fought long and hard to get to the negotiating table, and what happened? After being offered the same terms as the men’s team, they refused, and why? Because the majority of their members felt it was more beneficial to keep the contract they already had. That was a choice, which is nearly always the case when you look at skewed figures.

I think most people in here, whether male or female, or however you identify, that we all want equality. I wouldn’t sit by while a female colleague got paid less for the same work, and this is an important point, if all things are equal. Experience, qualifications, hours worked, they are usually the deciding factors at play, and they don’t only go in one direction, it works the same way for everybody.

@Sonia Fitzpatrick: Interesting comment coming from the person who refers to those who she disagrees with as ‘Neanderthals’.

@frank mcglynn: Thank you Frank.

@Ger Mooney: ‘To cry on here’ ? Im not crying. In the next few years these cavemen attitudes will be a thing of the past. The Pay Transparency Bill 2019 will ensure companies are transparent about their pay. It will become such a social movement that companies will comply. As staff will choose to work for equal pay companies. A brighter future for everyone as all genders will be valued equally for their educational, experience and what they contribute to their employers.

@Sonia Fitzpatrick: What in anything I said was caveman? Review what I said and point out anything that you classify as caveman. You cannot discuss or debate, all you do is throw out inane statements and seemingly sit back and feel great about yourself. You add no value to anything here.

You cannot even give a anecdotal example of any inequality. We already have equality, the problem is some people want more for less and wear victim badges proudly, because it is easier than accepting the truth.

@Ger Mooney: did you even read the article?

@Sonia Fitzpatrick: that’s the problem. They’re scared. They know they’re a dying breed.