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FactCheck: Has no government minister ever gone before the Public Accounts Committee?

Will Michael Noonan be the first sitting minister to go to the PAC? Or is Leo Varadkar wrong?

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Updated: 8.57pm

FINANCE MINISTER MICHAEL Noonan has finally agreed to appear before the Public Accounts Committee, amid developments and revelations regarding Project Eagle, the sale of NAMA’s Northern Ireland loanbook.

But on RTE’s The Week in Politics last Sunday, his cabinet colleague Leo Varadkar argued strongly that Noonan should not come before the committee, and claimed:

Ministers don’t go before the Public Accounts Committee…To the best of my knowledge, we’ve never had a minister go before the PAC.

Is this true? Béibhinn O’Connor in Dublin got in touch with us, so we looked into it.

(Remember, if you hear a government minister, or anyone else, making a major historical claim, email factcheck@thejournal.ie or tweet @TJ_FactCheck).

Claim: A government minister has never gone before the PAC
Verdict: FALSE

  • At least four government ministers (including one Tánaiste) and one Taoiseach have gone before the PAC
  • But it is extremely rare – by our rough count, three ministers and one Taoiseach out of 523 meetings of the PAC since 1999.

What was said:

TheJournal.ie / YouTube

You can watch a summary of Varadkar’s comments, and other relevant information, in the video above.

The claim we’re interested in is this:

To the best of my knowledge, we’ve never had a minister go before the PAC.

The Facts

2011

On 8 December, then Public Expenditure Minister Brendan Howlin went before the PAC to discuss reform of the public service.

On Monday’s Tonight With Vincent Browne on TV3, Social Democrat TD Róisín Shortall correctly pointed out this fact.

1999-2000 – DIRT Inquiry

Screen Shot 2016-09-21 at 3.21.34 PM The Public Accounts Committee meeting during the DIRT Inquiry Oireachtas Oireachtas

As part of the PAC’s inquiry into the under-collection of DIRT (Deposit Interest Retention Tax), and bogus non-resident accounts, two government ministers and a Taoiseach came before the PAC’s sub-committee on Certain Revenue Matters.

11 July 2000: Then Tánaiste and Minister for Social Welfare Mary Harney
20 June 2000: Then Government Chief Whip and Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach Seamus Brennan
29 September 1999: Then Taoiseach Bertie Ahern

Then Attorney General Michael McDowell went before the PAC on 28 November 2000. Although not a minister, the AG does sit at cabinet.

On 29 September 1999, the PAC also heard testimony from four previous Finance Ministers: Albert Reynolds (then a TD), John Bruton (then Fine Gael leader), Ruairi Quinn (then Labour leader), and Ray MacSharry, who had retired from politics.

1971 – Arms Crisis

In 1971 and 1972, the PAC conducted the Northern Ireland Relief Expenditure Inquiry, known as the “Arms Crisis Inquiry”, into the alleged smuggling of arms to the IRA by Fianna Fáil ministers Charlie Haughey and Neil Blaney.

As part of its investigation, the committee heard evidence from Haughey and Blaney (by then removed from ministerial office), and several other prominent individuals, including the Army Chief of Staff Lieutenant General Seán MacEoin.

On 21 and 22 April 1971, then Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries James (Jim) Gibbons, was examined as a witness before the PAC.

Conclusion

11/5/2016. Silicon Valley Announcements Sam Boal / RollingNews.ie Sam Boal / RollingNews.ie / RollingNews.ie

Since the foundation of the state, more government ministers may well have appeared before the Public Accounts Committee.

However, the evidence we’ve found is sufficient to reach a verdict on Leo Varadkar’s claim.

It is extremely rare for a sitting minister to go before the PAC. By our count, the Public Accounts Committee has met on 523 occasions since the beginning of 1999, and hosted hundreds of speakers.

By our rough count, just three sitting ministers (including one Tánaiste), and one Taoiseach were among them.

However, Leo Varadkar’s claim was that “to the best of my knowledge, we’ve never had a minister go before the PAC”.

That claim is demonstrably FALSE.

In response to FactCheck, a spokesperson for Varadkar broadly reiterated the argument he made on The Week in Politics, but appeared to resile from his claim that no minister had ever gone before the PAC:

Ministers and former Ministers do not generally appear before the PAC, simply because they do not make accounting decisions; they award no contracts, make no decisions on individual sales or financial transactions, etc…

Send your FactCheck requests to factcheck@thejournal.ie

Update: This article has been updated to reflect the fact that Michael Noonan has agreed to come before the PAC on 6 October. 

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39 Comments
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    Mute Tony Skillington
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    Sep 21st 2016, 8:54 PM

    Once again FG caught lying through their teeth..any comment Leo???????

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    Mute Declan McDermott
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:09 PM

    He said it was to the best of his knowledge that is NOT making a solid claim, he is saying he could be wrong what’s the big deal????

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    Mute LITTLEONE
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:17 PM

    @Declan McDermott: you would have thought he would know something like this before he goes on the national airwaves and makes a t#t of himself.

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:43 PM

    But he put it out as truth Declan. Look at our newspapers almost on a daily basis put their view out as truth. All part of the game.

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    Mute LITTLEONE
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:51 PM

    Factcheck. Government ministers knowledge is not not knowing anything, when they should.

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    Mute Seán Marlow
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    Sep 21st 2016, 11:01 PM

    @Declan McDermott: What’s wrong is that Leo is was lying. Perhaps not a big deal in FG, eh?

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    Mute Stephen Brady
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    Sep 22nd 2016, 6:42 AM

    Declan “to the best of my knowledge” and “as far as I know” are Leo’s stock in trade. He is a prize bullshit merchant who always covers his arse.

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    Mute Tony Skillington
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    Sep 22nd 2016, 1:23 PM

    @ Declan..the big deal is that FG are constantly covering their asses by spinning out lies and untruths. Do you not think it might have been worth Leo’s time to check that fact out?

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    Mute Joe Butler
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:07 PM

    Excuse my language but these guys boil my blood.

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    Mute Charlie Fogarty
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:15 PM

    @Joe Butler:

    Tone it the funk down, Joe.

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    Mute Joe Butler
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:24 PM

    Naa

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    Mute Joe Butler
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:28 PM

    Maa lol

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    Mute Motherofdivinejebus
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:27 PM

    Claim: A government minister has never gone before the PAC
    Verdict: Leo is talking Bollix.

    Fixed that for you Journal :-)

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    Mute Boganity
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    Sep 21st 2016, 11:14 PM

    Another Fact (only in Ireland): in every other Westminster democracy in the world EVERY minister appears before the PAC EVERY year as part of the budget process.

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    Mute Methinks
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    Sep 22nd 2016, 7:17 AM

    Except they do appear before the committees dealing with their departmental area.

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    Mute Boganity
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    Sep 22nd 2016, 9:51 AM

    ah yes the Irish solution, water down the Westminster system with a bast*rdised committee system: the departmental committee, the committee you have when have when you’re not having a committee

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    Mute Lar Cooney
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    Sep 21st 2016, 8:55 PM

    Grandad pampers and a couple carers to clean him up for the day make sure the aul eye isnt wondering he hasnt been able to look at anyone straight in eye since the his banking bonds matured he will play a blinder, a man of his withered words, doesnt give a donkeys ball bag

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    Mute LITTLEONE
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:20 PM

    You’d have thought leo would know his facts or check stuff before he opens his mouth. Is that too much to ask considering noonan and the PAC was all talk last week

    81
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    Mute David Wall
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:05 PM

    Leo spoofing, well I never!

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    Mute stephen kavanagh
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    Sep 21st 2016, 8:44 PM

    Is this the face that launched a thousand ships?

    69
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    Mute Poole Hyde
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    Sep 21st 2016, 8:57 PM

     Sweet Michael , make me immortal with a kiss….

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    Mute Willy
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    Sep 21st 2016, 8:54 PM

    Strange for Leo to Fib …

    67
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    Mute Joe Butler
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:03 PM

    AND Leo has been doing so much arse licking he talks shite.

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    Mute Snowball
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:01 PM

    So sick of these old farts dictating to the majority of younger people and robbing us blind while they do it. Corrupt to the core and rotten out, just go already. No one believes anything you say anymore, just go away.

    61
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    Mute Fear Uisce
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    Sep 21st 2016, 10:18 PM

    Nothing new about Leo talking out his arse

    55
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    Mute Rory
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    Sep 22nd 2016, 9:05 AM

    Leo would talk about anything except his own department to get into the news. FG deserve him, he is the Joan Briton of the FG party.

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    Mute Charlie Fogarty
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    Sep 21st 2016, 8:56 PM

    Just let him f**kin retire. He will only ever be answerable posthumously anyway.

    52
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    Mute Sam Palmer
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:30 PM

    To be honest I doubt of this guy is even gay.

    48
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    Mute Poole Hyde
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:35 PM

    Who’d have him ?.. Luckily he’s so in love with himself he’ll never be lonely.

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    Mute Joe Butler
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    Sep 21st 2016, 8:58 PM

    About time too.

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    Mute Seymour business
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    Sep 21st 2016, 8:55 PM

    Good one

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    Mute @mdmak33
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    Sep 21st 2016, 10:23 PM

    Leo knows very little about anything,TRUE.

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    Mute Cormac Laffan
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:49 PM

    Leo meant a Minister as important as Master Michael no doubt.

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    Mute Adrian
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    Sep 21st 2016, 10:41 PM

    They can ask him about Irelands broken tax system while he’s up there too!

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    Mute Richie Rice
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    Sep 21st 2016, 10:29 PM

    Politics aside I’m no fan of Michael Noonan, but by God the Man needs to look after His health as He does not look well.

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    Mute John R
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    Sep 21st 2016, 9:07 PM

    There’s a very good reason why so few Ministers appear. The PAC is a body largely designed to hold accounting officers in Govt Departments and related bodies to account for spending. These people are mainly secretary generals or their equivalent as well as those officials who took major spending decisions. In other words not politicians. Nothing magical about this.

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    Mute FlopFlipU
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    Sep 22nd 2016, 4:51 AM

    A ideal candidate for a Fg leader

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    Mute Upowthat Burke
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    Sep 22nd 2016, 11:29 AM

    Punjab Leo talking crap AGAIN

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