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TURKISH PRESIDENT RECEP Tayyip Erdogan has warned that the Netherlands would face more retaliation from Ankara in a spiralling diplomatic crisis, as he made a new jibe against the country over the 1995 Srebrenica massacre.
In an uncompromising speech, Erdogan said a ‘yes’ vote in an April 16 referendum on expanding his powers would be the best response to Turkey’s “enemies” in a dispute that risks wrecking the entire Ankara-Brussels relationship.
He also said the Dutch character had been “broken” after Netherlands peacekeepers had failed to prevent the 1995 Srebrenica massacre, in comments described as “repugnant” by The Hague.
In a dramatic escalation after the Netherlands prevented two Turkish ministers from holding rallies ahead of the referendum, Ankara said it was suspending high-level relations with the Hague in a raft of diplomatic sanctions.
Erdogan also lashed out at German Chancellor Angela Merkel for “supporting terrorists” as she backed the Netherlands in the increasingly acrimonious standoff, prompting an exasperated response from Berlin.
Far from stepping back, Erdogan accused the Netherlands of “state terror” in preventing Turkish ministers from holding pro-’yes’ rallies.
“We are going to work more” on measures against the Netherlands, said Erdogan. “These wrongs won’t be solved with a sorry, we have more things to do.”
‘We know them from Srebrenica’
Erdogan had previously angered the Netherlands by saying the authorities had behaved like the Nazis, who had occupied and bombed the country in the World War II.
Touching another raw nerve, he recalled the 1995 Srebrenica massacre in Bosnia, which Dutch UN peacekeepers failed to prevent in an episode that remains a national trauma to this day.
“The Netherlands and the Dutch, we know them from the Srebrenica massacre. We know how much their morality, their character is broken from the 8,000 Bosnians that were massacred,” Erdogan said.
We know this well. No one should give us a lesson in civilisation.
Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte called his claim a “repugnant historical falsehood”.
EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini and EU Enlargement Commissioner Johannes Hahn had called on Turkey to “refrain from excessive statements and actions that risk further exacerbating the situation”.
But the Turkish foreign ministry hit back by saying: “The EU’s short-sighted statement has no value for our country.”
“Our EU counterparts apply democratic values, fundamental rights and freedoms selectively,” the ministry added.
Paying no heed to the EU’s warning, Erdogan had bluntly told the German chancellor on Turkish television late yesterday: “Mrs Merkel, you are supporting terrorists.”
In an interview with A-Haber television, he accused Berlin of not responding to 4,500 dossiers sent by Ankara on terror suspects, including those linked to Kurdish militants and the failed coup in Turkey last year.
Merkel’s spokesman described the accusations as “absurd”, saying the chancellor had no intention of taking part in a “competition of provocations”.
Germany’s Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said today that Ankara was playing the role of the victim with its broadsides against NATO allies, as it seeks to “build solidarity” ahead of the referendum.
‘Envoy’s return blocked’
Deputy Prime Minister Numan Kurtulmus said after a cabinet meeting in Ankara that Turkey will not allow the Dutch ambassador to return until the Netherlands meets conditions over holding rallies.
Ambassador Kees Cornelis van Rij is currently outside of the country, and business is being handled by Dutch charge d’affaires.
Kurtulmus added:
Until the Netherlands compensates for what it has done, high-level relations and planned meetings at a ministerial and higher level have been suspended.
The move by the Netherlands to block the rallies by Turkish ministers comes as Rutte prepares to face the far-right populist Geert Wilders in a general election tomorrow.
Turkey is gearing up for a key April 16 poll to decide whether to approve constitutional changes that would create an executive presidency, boosting Erdogan’s powers.
In a bid to woo support, Turkish officials have sought to address to their citizens living in Europe, where a majority have traditionally supported the ruling party.
“Our nation on April 16 at the ballot box… will give the best answer to Turkey’s enemies,” Erdogan said.
In Germany, there are over 1.4 million Turkish citizens eligible to vote while there are nearly 250,000 in the Netherlands based on official figures from November 2015.
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The intern could also possibly help whoever placed the advertisement with their punctuation, as it’s atrocious.
The school secretary I would think.
I hadn’t heard a word from Teachers about job bridge before this. Typical attitude from the most selfish people in this country. It’s time we elected real leaders, brave enough to sort this crowd our once and for all.
Normally the Principal an B.O.M. place the ads.
Teachers masquerading as politicians have gotten this country into the mess we are in politics is full of them no business experience just self interest with the cushion of a permanent job if they loose their seat. Also teachers lobby way too powerful in Ireland overpaid underworked and pampered
Not true. The Unions have been vocal on this and adopted a policy against Jobsbridge. Maybe you missed it….
You are a ring piece
Goebong, you have it the wrong way around, they are politicians masquerading as teachers. Here is a link to the last Dail and the TDs former professions.
http://www.politicalworld.org/archive/index.php/t-6990.html
The overwhelming majority who listed teaching are career politicians and most also have a family history in politics.
Therefore it is logical to assume that they train to be teachers with the knowledge that they will have good time off to further their political career while they wait for the older family member to retire and coupled with a fall back if it doesn’t work out.
Lets be clear most of the ‘teachers’ on the list are a million miles away from the typical Irish teacher, most of that shower used teaching as a means to an end.
Eric I stand corrected I never thought of it that way the list does make for scary reading though career politicians
Teachers (including third level):
- Aine Brady
- Tommy Broughan
- Ulick Byrne
- Pat Carey
- Joe Costello
- Ciaran Cuffe
- William Darcy
- Jimmy Deenihan
- Noel Dempsey
- Frank Fahy
- John Gormley
- Tony Gregory
- Mary Hanafin
- Brian Hayes
- Michael D Higgins
- Brendan Howlin
- Enda Kenny
- Tony Kileen
- Michael Kitt
- Tom Kitt
- Ciaran Lynch
- Micheal Martin
- Tom McEllistrim
- Dinny McGinley
- Finian McGrath
- Joe McHugh
- Olivia Mitchel
- Michael Noonan
- Fergus O’Dowd
- Batt O’Keeffe
- John O’Mahony
- Mary O’Rourke
- Brian O’Shea
- Maureen O’Sullivan
- Jan O’Sullivan
- Dick Roche
- Trevor Sargent
- Roisin Shorthall
- David Stanton
- Mary Upton
- Margaret Conlon
Overpaid at 22,000. Underworked by having classes of 30+ kids. Indeed. And every politician is a teacher, aren’t they? All them finance ministers, have they been teachers? Of course not. Don’t let that cloud your agenda though.
Don’t forget this a Labour Party initiative . The country is bent people need to open there eyes to this the Unions are taking little sweet heart deals for their members it’s a divide and conquer attitude by the government .
Yes overpaid and underworked how come you didn’t mention all the paid holidays ??
Doctors nurses firemen and guards are all strength to the limit with cutback and overworked they don’t get almost half the year off in holidays
Niall, Rodrigo is a well known troll. (Or whatever his name is.)
Please excuse my incorrect spelling I know you teachers are trying to enjoy your whole summer off
Also 22k a year not bad for 195 days work a year
Interesting Niall, can’t pass comment on somebody elses job yet you seem more than happy for everybody to slam each and every politician in this country. I’m not saying politicians in this country are faultless, but surely they should be dealt with the same as everybody else in the country?
Now bring on red thumbs for pointing out that people like to be hypocritical, gowan then, journal readers.
Goebong, I assume you’ll be applying to St Pat’s to join this underworked overpaid Utopia as soon as humanly possible.
Its not paid holidays. You’re paid for 9 months, which is actually spread out over a year.
@Daisy Off course he/she won’t. People pontificate from their moral high ground, but wouldn’t last a week in the supposedly cushy job.
No I won’t but I do work in the front line of public services and I’m telling you teachers are pampered and full of self importance
Back this claim up then.
Goebong, there are different conditions for different professions. Doctors may not get long holidays, but they earn far more money than teachers. Firefighters and guards get to retire on full pension at fifty. Nurses are the only ones who don’t earn a fortune and don’t get long holidays – but they do have flexibility in their working hours teachers don’t have.
Yes sounds like trade union accounting at its best .. Teachers have it cushy under performing teachers go unchecked for years damaging Children’s education we all know at least one teacher who should have been sacked years ago
Of course there is some outstanding teachers who go above and beyond
Why then do you pick on the one teacher that should have been sacked, and not the outstanding teachers? Every profession has under performers, doesn’t mean the whole profession are overpaid, underworked.
You mention ‘damaging kids education’. That’s exactly what this scheme does! It limits teachers hours, it de-values their job. You can’t have it both ways.
Your pontificating about the teaching profession backs up everything I said
Yes Goebong because those with all the business experience were so astute when the crash came and slowed the economy down before it imploded then did they?
Why?
How am I pontificating? You’re the one with an agenda, which is clearly clouding your views.
Because we are the same person everybody knows
Agency nurses have some flexibility in working hours – but do not have any job security.
HSE nurses have no flexibility in hours unless you count being asked to work 12 hour rosters, with the only flexibility being to trade places with a colleague.
Compare that with teachers who continually harp on about low pay but keep quiet about the fact it is a part time job.
I know that things have changed recently, but traditionally, nurses worked twelve hour shifts for a few days a week, and had good stretches of free time as a result. I know it’s not as easy now.
Teachers don’t complain about low pay, and certainly don’t “harp on about” it.. We complain at having our pay continuously cut while being asked to do more work, which is not unreasonable, given that our paymasters are not taking similar measures themselves.
I suggest you teach for a year and tell me it’s a part time job…
Your point “family have a history in politics” raises another issue with the political system. People vote because they voted for there father before. Sure the Healy-Rays are still getting a seat……
Gary. Has it reached the stage that a person becomes a troll when he or she expresses their opinion? As far as I’m concerned the Teachers of Ireland are little more than reality dodging leeches.
Who said you aren’t entitled to express an opinion?
The other side of that is that other people are entitled to express their opinions of your opinions.
Just because plenty other people with good qualifications have been forced into these schemes doesn’t mean it’s ok. NOBODY should be forced into them, in fact they shouldn’t be in place in the first place when they offer nothing in the lines of training and have no prospect of a job at the end.
What exactly is the problem you have with the teachers your children have?
There’s not a week goes by when at least one of my children comes home and tells me that their teacher didn’t show, which invariably means that their class is split up and farmed out here there and everywhere. Curiously enough, Mondays and Fridays seem to be the days when teachers find it most difficult to turn up. As I said in a previous post. Reality dodgers who have never experienced real life.
Goebong, Tony Gregory is actually dead you know.
Teachers have had six and now have three uncertified sick days a year, and a limited number of certified days within a period of two years. If someone is persistently missing time on the same days every week, questions would be asked.
However, you didn’t answer my question. I didn’t ask about absences. I asked how you know what the teachers that teach your children are like. Are you in the classroom observing? Are you keeping track and noticing they are falling behind the curriculum? Have you specific problems with their methodology or treatment of your children?
Specifics, please.
Oh my goodness….never looked at it like that before!! Thank you Goebong!! Wow!! These are the people running the country? Incredible!!
The vast majority of current teachers started on 38k and new grads start on 32k(well above grad wages) so I’ll save my pity.
Joe you plucked those figures out of your ample arse anyway
What has the starting salaries of newly appointed teachers got to do with this discussion, Joe? There are very few jobs out there, so very few newly qualified teachers ever get appointed to full time jobs. Most teachers spend years in limbo, subbing and teaching part time.
This discussion is about newly qualified teachers working for the dole (forget the extra fifty quid, because that will be spend on travel, food, clothes etc)
Have a go ..see how easy it is
He’s last five minutes, Edel.
I graduated from a teacher training college last year. Yes, I have struggled to get work since then, the job market is extremely competitive and with the government increasing class sizes and cutting funding, it makes it almost impossible. However this scheme is a slap in the face to me, and many like me who went to college, trained for 3 years and got their degree. This scheme in reality could lead to the following ; I decide to take up Job Bridge and proceed to be paid 50 euro with my dole. Meanwhile someone who perhaps graduated in my class, gets a job and is paid normal teaching salary. How is that fair??
I qualified last year actually Joe. I don’t ever intend to be on the dole, have spent the last year getting experience through subbing, not through being insulted with 50 euro.
Don’t listen to that absolute troll, let him go back to what he’s good at….. bending over.
Bankers/politicians coupled with people like joe here is why this country continues to slide down the shitter
Dearbhla whilst it’s not an ideal situation but what you’re describing applies to everyone in almost every industry! It’s only when it becomes an issue for teachers that there’s outcry because they have powerful unions!
Ted I see where you’re coming from.. But why shouldn’ t there be an outcry from all sectors? I think teachers are entitled to their ‘outcry.’ As is any other sector being insulted with the scheme.
No, Dearbhla, it’s not fair. And worse, the teacher in the room next door to you, teaching the same year class, would be getting paid vastly more than you for doing the same job.
Your the troll mrknow why don’t you post with your real name instead of posting abuse .
Nial you have your head up your arse maybe that’s why you talk a load of shite.
FailBridge.
I see another ad for a teacher on Jobbridge in Kilbonane N.S, Aherla,Co. Cork.
I’d strongly encourage people who object to this exploitation of teachers to e-mail the two schools concerned, ( e-mail addresses are with the ads), to voice their disapproval. The second ad has spelling and punctuation errors as well as the first one! They obviously need all the help they can get!
Saw another one in Jobsbridge recently seeking an intern for cleaning buses at the weekend.. Another piss take..
Jobsbridge is the brain child of the troika to get skilled people to work for €3.80 an hour. Some people will spend years on scams like this getting nowhere. The government will try and expand this to unskilled workers doing jobs in fast food places and cleaning jobs, absolute joke. 80k people plus all on ce schemes, tusc and Jobsbridge, the government will have a huge percentage of people working for the new minimum wage… €3.80ph. And the people that are red thumbing comments slamming Jobsbridge are just those exploiting it.
Make no mistake about it, this scheme is open to abuse by any employer with the neck to do it. From highly qualified technical work right to cleaner, deli assistant, shelf stacker, they’ve all been up on the JobBridge site. A complete farce, and typical of our ruling class, partially intentional, partially stupidity.
Make no mistake about it, job bridge was set up for the sole reason of masking the true unemployment figures in this country. Plain and simple.
Hit the nail on the head there Niall….massaging the figures and getting people ‘working’ for nothing.
100% agree Niall
Teacher : Johnny what do you want to be when you grow up?
Johnny : A Job-bridge intern, just like you Miss.
Such a scam. Once you add in your commuting costs and costs of resources etc, the “extra 50″ a week becomes a loss. So basically someone on the dole will be getting more money than a teacher with a class of 30. Scandalous.
Qualified teachers will have already spent 4 months or so of unpaid internship during their degree, so the experience aspect of it is BS.
Add in that the teacher legally will only be allowed work 30 hours a week, does that mean they can slack on planning/correcting because they’re not legally allowed to work more than this?
They will legally work 30 actual contact hours, but the prep and corrections will be done in their own time, like every teacher. It’s not illegal, and there’s no limit on the amount of hours you spend. So basically they’ll be doing a forty or fifty hour week
If the probationary requirement was built fully into the teacher training course then newly qualified teachers wouldn’t be even considering partaking in this. Schools actually advertising posts need to consider the lack of value they are applying to the profession of teaching which is suffering as it is by lack of resources, pupil teacher ratio and the cloaked withdrawal of support for special needs. If teachers themselves do not value the profession then what hope is there for it.
Ger, you can only have a probationary period if you have a job. The schools don’t get to decide that they need an extra teacher so they just hire one. They get a specific allocation, and they have to live with that. This is obviously a way round that, albeit a disgraceful one. I agree with you that the principal and BOM of that school have questions to answer, and I hope the rest of the teaching staff will have something to say about it through their union.
A probationary period is different to a probation in terms of primary school teaching or getting your dip done. There is a probationary period in any contract in teaching even for probated or dipped teachers. Getting your probation done or “dipped” could be completed during college when students are on tp. This is something I propose could be done-it is not being done but if it was it would solve many problems for nqts.
But TP (teaching practice) is part of your course requirements… Dip or probation is required by the Department of Education/Teaching Council, which you won’t be dealing with until you’re qualified.
Its a personal view that the dip should take place during college. Considering the difficulties and pressure there is on nqts to get it done with no job opportunities and thus being so desperate to get it done they are pushed to consider taking part in jobsbridge.
Ger, I agree that the dip / probation should be done while in college. I had hoped that the new fourth year would include this. I have never understood how anyone graduating with a teaching degree should need a final “stamp of approval” from the DES. If you’re fit to graduate, you’re fit to teach – surely?! If not, there’s something wrong with our training colleges! Some teachers just out of college are drawn to an internship in order to have enough days to complete the dip.
Jobbridge is a joke. Government believes it’s brilliant but the rest of us know better. Exploitation is not work experience.
Government likes it because they can claim they are reducing the unemployed numbers. Terms and conditions of those employed under the jobbridge they don’t give a toss about.
Lets put all Dail members on Job Bridge so the can acquire the skills necessary to run the country.
Im afraid the 9 months maximum duration wouldn’t be enough to teach that bunch of slow learners
Once interviewed for a JobBridge internship as a lab technician at a school in Ballincollig.
It became apparent to me early in the interview that they only wanted a have a fully qualified person work for free. Absolute joke, and I let them know that internships are supposed to be a learning experience. Needless to say, they didn’t hire me.
I saw a jobbridge position advertised for a 9 month period, 40 hours a week behind a deli counter in a small village shop. Honestly, how long would it really take the intern to learn how to make sandwiches. Most of these positions are completely exploitative……
That Job bridge should be called Con bridge its an insult to young teachers who trained hard.No wonder all our educated young people are leaving Ireland to be part of the skype generation.
This particular ad is exploitation at its worst as it offers nothing to the intern. If it gave newly qualified teachers the opportunity to complete their probation then some merit for it could be argued. What it actually does, however, is to ask a fully qualified teacher to work for fifty euro per week. This is shameful.
The irony is so many TD’s are teachers themselves!
@Stephen McMahon, No. They are not. I cleaned toilets in 740Park Ave. to earn my college fees in 1989. Am I a “toilet-cleaner”? Yes; but don’t DEFINE ME, pls.
The race to the bottom continues and nobody says stop.
Employers are keeping scheme users after their time has finished, to work off the books, for less money cause they know the person is stuck. Cheating the tax man, getting cheap labour. Only the employers win. It’s a system that should be done way with.
Always seems to be a few on here that regularly just come on to bash teachers.
Question for them, do you want the best teaching your kids, or a teacher who is limited to legally doing 30 hours a week – i.e no extra curricular activities, no extra time planning/correcting? Add in that any motivation or love for the profession will surely be gone if you’re earning less than a scrounger on the dole.
The same people that are advocating this would be the people to complain if their underpaid, under appreciated teacher wasn’t teaching their kids to an adequate standard.
You can’t have it both ways. If you want quality teachers, then at least respect them enough to pay them more than the bloody dole.
(And yes people have been outraged before over JobBridge, a quick Journal search and read through of comments will show that, especially around the Job Bridge positions in the RTE featured creches etc. But we know that doesn’t fit with some people’s anti-teacher agenda).
people who have lost their jobs through the gross mismanagement of this country and now find themselves on the dole are not “scroungers” as you call them,please dont tar everyone with the same brush otherwise you are buying into the divide and conquer mentality so shamefully promoted by our joke of a government
I’d rather have somebody with limited interest and time teach my children than someone judgemental and bigoted
“Scrounger on the dole”
“a scrounger on the dole” – not exactly tarring everyone if I mentioned one person?
Never said everyone, talking about the few we all know who are happy to sit on their arse all day and NOT look for work.
Bigoted? Hilarious. We all know a few scroungers happy to sit by not looking for work on the dole. This isn’t exactly saying everyone is it. And yeah, don’t address any of the other points, just that one. Ok so you rather someone with limited time/interest? I hope you experience this then, and then I assume you won’t complain?
Well put Keith. I definitely don’t want an unappreciated teacher teaching my kids. An unappreciated teacher = an unmotivated teacher, it’s simple. Same goes of course for all professions.
Spot on Gary. And its not just teachers. Its Gards, nurses, doctors, fire men, the lot. If this job ad was for an internship as a nurse or fireman, it would be just as bad.
Keith, the would be job bridge teacher would not be limited to thirty hours a week. That is just time in the classroom. Like all teachers, she or he would have to do extra hours of planning, preparation and correction, because you can’t function as a teacher without it.
The only thing the person shouldn’t do is participate in extra-curricular activities. That IS voluntary. But in a small country school almost impossible to opt out of.
I’m afraid, Gary, if you have kids in school, you DO have an unappreciated teacher teaching them. The government has been on our backs for the past few years, basically telling us that we don’t do anything other than our teaching, and therefore making us stay on the premises for extra hours to have stupid, pointless meetings. They have totally ignored the fact that teachers give countless hours of their own time on extra curricular stuff. So teachers are pretty demotivated at the moment. I see it with my own colleagues, and I know many teachers at primary level too.
I know, in reality, no teacher would ever not do more than 30 hours, much much more goes into the week and weekend than 30 hours.
Its just more false advertising, what I’m saying is if a teacher on this scheme, just playing devils advocate, only puts 30 hours in, what happens if they’re under performing. They’re only doing whats asked of them.
The underpaid and under appreciated points still stand. (yes, i know all teachers are in this current climate, but this job only belittles it more).
I take your point, Keith, but all I want to make clear is that a teacher simply CAN’T underperform in terms of the amount of hours. If you teach for thirty hours a week, you HAVE TO spend several more hours preparing. You can’t just walk into a classroom and say “Ok, lads, what are we going to do today?”
At primary level, there is huge preparation for young teachers, because they have the same class for the entire day, and have to provide stimulus for them for all this time. For every subject, they have to prepare materials – especially with the younger children. There is at least, at least, ten hours involved in planning and preparation. Follow up and corrections could be less, depending on how they do assessments. Older teachers have built up resources and know how, but when you’re new you have very little, so you have to do everything from scratch.
So these “thirty hours a week” jobs can’t be done in thirty hours, and that’s the bottom line.
Jesus would you ever stop whining? You are the reason nobody has the time for teachers anymore. Well paid, pensions, and half the year off yet constantly whinging !!! You’re not doing your colleagues any favours crying like a little girl.
You obviously haven’t taken in a word of what I’ve said. There’s no shame in not grasping a thing the first time; I suggest you go back and read it slowly, breaking up the hard words. This is, if you are actually interested in what was said, which I doubt.
@Gráinne, Bravo!
You are now talking out of your “loop de hoop”. Department of education whole school evaluations are online for all to see. Taking up copies and marking them is a must. If a teacher has 6 classes with on average 25 pupils per class, that equals 150 copies. That’s a lot of correcting. Secondly if you walk into a class unprepared, you would be chewed up and spat out. Preparation is key to classroom management. I did it for a year before taking up a third level post and believe me it was knackering. Unlike lecturing, if you don’t keep a bunch of teenagers engaged, you are screwed.
Very well said Keith.
Slavery. Jobbridge is undermining minimum wage and should be scrapped immediately. Government needs its face slapped over this scheme! Too many loopholes.
Absolute bullshit. This is such crap outta the government. Exploiting.
I agree the pay is an insult but to say a teacher will get nothing out of it is also ridiculous. Nothing apart from 30 hours a week real class teaching experience that I’d expect would give them an advantage in securing a permanent job in the future. You have to take any chance you can get in a job market like this. Your dream job is unlikely to just land in your lap.
I wish our local school would do this instead of having 6 classes with 33+ pupils & rooms used for storage.
You clearly haven’t a bulls notion what you’re on about here Peter. And your point has so many holes in it it could be used as a triton shower head.
Peter, primary school student teachers do at least 3 stints of teaching practice where they learn all the skills advertised in the jobsbridge.
Lets be clear, this is not a standard internship where the graduate teachers learn the skills for the first time, the ‘internship’ has been carried out during teaching practice.
This is further proof of exploitation of a vulnerable group people
” so many holes in it it could be used as a triton shower head.” quote of the week!
I’m sorry lads but as an unemployed primary school teacher I’d take that job in a heartbeat. I love the job I chose and I’d do anything to have my own class instead of the endless bouncing from school to school subbing. I’d rather take €50 extra a week than have people giving out about me getting almost €200 a day for subbing.
What about the profession you are a member of? You see nothing wrong with it being reduced to slave labour? You’re happy to work for fifty quid a week for fifty hours work?
Sorry, but you’re a disgrace to the name teacher.
I find your post disgusting to be honest. I’m okay Jack.
What about people calling me a sponger for being on the dole when I can’t get work? There’s no winning in this situation. I love teaching and at the way it’s going I won’t get work any other way.
Also saying I’m a disgrace to the word teacher is a bit dramatic. All I want to do is teach. I’d do it for free.
I’m sorry if I said you were a disgrace, that was a bit strong. But you are letting your profession down by acting as a yellowpack worker. It’s not better, in my opinion, than passing a picket line.
I understand you love to teach; I love it too, and I’m lucky enough to have a job. But I spent over ten years subbing and doing part time work before I got my permanent job. I literally worked a week here, a week there, a day here, a day there. And I taught night classes, and Spanish students in the summer. I did everything I could to get experience. When I couldn’t find a job, I had to go on the dole. But that wasn’t my fault. I never sold out.
There is work out there. It might not be regular or dependable, but at least you can live with yourself if you have a conscience. Do night classes,Why are you so worried about being called a dole sponger but you don’t seem to be worried about letting your colleagues, your profession and yourself down by selling out to this slave labour scheme.
Fair enough, your passion for it is pretty manifest, but if people are willing to take peanuts like this then all you’ll do is make it acceptable. Why the hell would you care about any fool’s opinion or refuse subbing work in favour of slave labour? Respect is the gift man gives himself.
If you work for nothing you will always have work. I blame the unions who are sitting on their backsides doing nothing and collecting colossal wage packets. SIPTU is asking its members to celebrate the centenary of the Lock Out. The Lock Out occurred because the workers united against exploitation but today’s unions are complicit in the exploitation. How long before every profession in Ireland gets their own Job Scheme employee?
Any time you are willing to work “for FREE”, they will let you.
Very witty Mike. Gold star from all the teachers for you apparently. Perhaps you’d like to point out all these flaws in my point. While you’re at it maybe you can answer a simple question: if a hiring manager is faced with two candidates for a job who have equal qualifications and the only difference is that one had not worked in the field for several years perhaps and the other has up to date experience – which one do you think they are more likely to hire? Answer me that.
In the USA years ago African people got great experience in sugar growing and cotton planting. In Russia the serfs were way ahead of everyone when it came to farming, except for the Irish who were great at carving out a subsistence living. The Scottish and Belfast men were the best shipbuilders in the World. Their reward for their hard work and ingenuity? Starvation, misery, emigration, poor health, watching their children die or worse, having to live the squalid life they had. Get a grip. If anyone should be penalised it should be bankers and politicians but I haven’t seen any Job Bridge ads for their jobs.
Peter you want interns educating your kids ?
Uproar because it’s a teacher and yet virtually nothing over all the other €50 per week jobs or all the unpaid ‘internships’ out there. If you do a job you should be paid the minimum wage at least – hint, that’s why it’s called minimum wage.
Agree with you there about how other internships are exploitative, but the thing I think is getting people’s backs up is that it’s a Government Department that is trying to get this internship going. At the same time as this internship is being posted the same department and the Teaching Council are trying to represent teachers as professionals. Plus, while primary school teachers only teach for ~ 30 hours a week (as the jobsbridge scheme says) but there is a huge amount of behind the scenes work, and this internship essentially disregards that.
Christian, you’re right that there should be uproar for the whole scheme. I think why there’s uproar in this instance is for several reasons. Firstly, it is offering to train someone in something they have already learned and gained experience in whilst in college. Secondly, the thirty hours a week it’s offering is clearly rubbish, as a teacher can’t function without a lot of hours of preparation, planning and correcting.
On those two areas alone, it’s a joke.
The latest in a long line of JobBridge abuses. They can pull as many ‘people who done internships who are now working’ stats out of their arses as they like, the programme is a farce.
This is disgraceful. What will this so called Government come up with next. JobBridge is a joke…..slave labour.
jobsbridge is an absolute joke. An intern ship is meant to be about learning skills and being mentored not slave labour. Some of the internships offered seem legit at times but the majority are a joke. Cleaners etc I mean come on? Seriously? And I have to say this latest one is disgusting. A while ago I had to do an internship-not with jobsbridge, with college and I got a local spot to do it for 3 months. There was no mentoring and I soon found out the crowd I was with were just getting me to do all the ground work for them to take the glory. I was learning nothing, was left alone all day every day bar a call every now and then. So I left and next thing I see that same crowd had put an ad on jobsbridge to get some one in in the same ‘role’ as me… Joke!! So long as Jobsbridge is the go to for companies to have free staff there will never be any real training and the dole queues will get longer….Joke.
I had the dubious honour of discussing jobbridge type schemes with Minister Bruton up in RTE after the scheme was introduced. A very brief conversation as her minder whisked her away as they do. She was praising the scheme and I asked if it was such an excellent scheme why wasn’t it being tried in public sector also? I got a cock and bull answer but 18 months or so later another policy change from Labour it appears.
Yes, it is already in the public sector. Teaching is actually the public sector and this job is no garanteed at the end of it at all. It all started off with the public sector as they were trying to fill in places where staff were all leaving. I am surprised you didn’t know that before you even asked the minster because he already knows that it is run in the public sector.
Wouldn’t be so “sure” the so called”smart” people are applying…it happens to be an example in the teaching profession bringing this to light but people with all sorts of qualifications and degrees and experience are being insulted with this scheme , I would think the so called smart people would be more likely to take their teaching degrees abroad and earn a decent living abroad , then the inevitable government report comes out in a few years wondering why we paid so much training our people to be teachers etc only for them to use their skills abroad I hope it mentions the alternative for many was 50 euro plus dole money on job bridge and realise they are creating a brain drain with their pathetic handling of the jobs crisis.
This is not the first time that a teaching job has been put up Aoife. Teaching jobs have been put up for the last year anyway. The primary school teachers union the into had instructed members not to take part in the jobsbridge scheme so it died off for a bit but it seems that the schools advertising are aware that the into will do nothing about it so will carry on regardless.
Surely what the union should do, Ger, is to instruct its members not to work with interns. Harsh, but necessary in the interest of the profession in the long term.
Unfortunately, this is what is being directed to be done if a school is found to be using jobsbridge but is not being followed through. Having said that it is a very tough position for a teacher to be in working beside someone doing jobsbridge. What are they to do walk out of the school? It is not their fault that the people running the school put the ad out in the first place. I feel the fault is with whomever placed the ad in the first place. I know well the pressure in schools who would definitely benefit from an extra teacher but this is not the way of getting it. Hopefully the one good thing jobsbridge has done is brought to light how desperately schools are in need of help that they are willing to devalue their own profession to get it.
It IS a tough position. But standing up for your rights and your profession is not always easy. It’s not the fault of the yellowpack teacher that they have been employed, but members of the union should walk out, yes. It’s simply not acceptable
Unfortunately, the INTO is the most conservative of the teaching unions, and the jobs so far have been advertised for primary.
I’m a member of the TUI, and I can guarantee you there would be World War Three if such a thing happened in our college.
Plenty of experience to be gained in England as well where there is demand for teachers who will be paid a full and equal wage for the job they do. Not an easy thing to leave home, family, friends etc but i’d rather go and earn the queens pound than stay be insulted by my own government.
The Irish solution to every problem – leave or complain rather than try to change or improve things. Whaatever damage we have via our self esteem etc in this country the same people will thrive when abroad.
Its a complex one.
This government are so out of touch it’s unreal, sooner we get rid of them the better.
Government dept looking for fully qualified law searcher 9 month contract. Another crooked internship slave job
Disgraceful these programmes dont help anybody get job its just taking advantage of people.
Why is it only now that a teaching job has gone up on an internship people are outraged???
Ah Aoife, most people who knew what JobBridge was about (massaging live register figures) have been outraged since its inception.
Very observation….. Many years ago before I left dear Ireland ….. I was highly qualified in my field and couldn’t get a job… Needless to day I was on social welfare…. I got on a FAS course.. Wanted me for cheap labour…. Have a bit of pride and leave that B.S behind…. A lot of countries out there will respect and pay you for what you have to offer …. I’m afraid Ireland isn’t one of them….
Aoife, this teaching job shows the nonsense of internships in some cases. First because the teacher already has the skills it claims they will learn during this time, because they have done several stints at teaching practice during their training, and have covered every element listed on the job description.
Secondly because a thirty hour week actually means a lot longer working hours, as a teacher does at least the same again in preparation and correction. Especially a young teacher who hasn’t built up the experience and the resources. There’s a massive amount of preparation involved at primary level.
So they want a person who has gone to college for four years or more to work for fifty hours or more for the dole plus fifty euro.
Here is the email I sent to the school in question yesterday when I saw the ad (hat-tip to @paraicgallagher for alerting me to it):
Dear Amelia,
I am disgusted to see your internship offer to teachers this morning.
I have spent twenty-four years trying to teach my secondary school girls to (among other things) respect themselves and their abilities and to avoid being exploited.
By presenting the children in your care with an intern, you will be teaching them that exploitation is acceptable to you, to whom they look for guidance.
You will be undermining the good and vital work of inculcating in children the importance of standing up for their rights and asserting their self-worth.
By accepting Job Bridge in your school, you will be normalising exploitation in the formative years of the children in your care.
This will be unforgiveable and I urge you to reconsider.
Yours sincerely,
Tim Nelligan.
The email address for the internship is ameliakeena@yahoo.com , if you are interested in expressing your view to her….. (especially those who think teaching is a “cushy” number.)
Amelia Keena
Principal
Ardnagrath N.S
Athlone.
Co. Westmeath is the address. The school is on the east side of Athlone, not the West side as stated in the advertisement. I’m wondering was this a poor attempt to disguise which school is demeaning the teaching profession?
The particular school seems very anxious to indicate that it has a low teacher- pupil ratio. I’m sure that they can manage without an indentured servant so…
I rest my case—an excellent example of why the civil service should disbanded, starting with whoever posted this job ad.
They should apply the same Logic to the new TD Ms Enright. Raoiri Quinn could use the same criteria when he gave a job recently to Mrs Gilmore the wife of his fellow minister. How much is she paid in her new job? Pension?
I really cant wait for the next elections. This scambridge is just another way to lower wages and conditions. Union hacks and beards on huge wages and perks standing back and letting it happen.
How many of these teachers unions have spoken out about retired teachers getting jobs in our schools while new teachers get the dole, or a plane ticket?
Come the next general election …. Job bridge is the way to go….. Lets see how many are prepared to serve for 50 euro a week……
Well lets see what Sheila No Balls and her merry band of INTO officials(bought on €150,000+) in head office do now. Like Siptu and the rest they took the blueshirt shilling and betrayed their members. Trade Unionism is dead and buried!
In fairness, the union officials do what the members want. The INTO members tend to be a conservative bunch – they voted for Haddington Road, instead of sticking with the other teaching unions who have stood up to it.
Sheila the shill? “Yes, Minister”.
That’s scandalous. Thirty hours a week my eye. Double that, to include lesson prep, corrections etc. So a fully trained teacher would be working in one classroom for fifty quid a week while in the classroom next door another teacher is doing exactly the same job on full pay.
Qualified teachers are already trained in all the things the ad claims they will get training in.
Put it this way ! Let’s ask Ruairi Quinn to work for the dole +50 euro a week …he is a teacher, or qualified as one ! And would you all stop calling those politicians teachers, none of them ever intended to teach and used the job merely as a stepping stone….they are an insult to the profession, all of them !
@Michael G O’Reilly Your point is a good one; they aren’t “teachers”. A year or two working as one before entering politics doth not a teacher make. However, R Quinn is an architect (not “was”, as AFAIK he still runs his business, but open to correction).
Ruairi Quinn’s qualifications are Bachelor of Architecture and a Higher Diploma in Ekistics. He is not a teacher. Appointing someone who actually knew something about education would actually indicate that the government intended on progressing it somehow. Go figure…
Teachers have already done their work experience as part of their degree so there is no reason why they should be required to work for nothing. just a couple of things of note
The Irish Times and the Journal do not appear to have contacted, Amelia Keena, the principal of the Ardnagrath school who placed this advertisement. the woman is at the very least entitled to a right of reply.
Secondly, this was not the only teaching position to appear this week, in fact, one school in Newtwopothouse in County Cork which posted an advert for a teacher on jobbridge.ie subsequently removed it. The same school is using jobbridge to find two security guards who will double up as a caretaker and a “traffic warden.”
What I would like to know is, after nearly two years of shop assistants, cleaners, office skivvies being advertised, why is everyone so up-in-arms about teachers being sought. I spoke to a teacher in Mayo recently who had no problem with using JobBridge to find a janitor but not a teacher.
The exclusion of blind people from jobbridge, and the exclusion of all disabled people from JobPlus continues to be ignored by the media. Discrimination against people with a vision impairment who want to do something other than waste what little eyesight they have staring at the four walls. Joan Burton’s philosophy of “special jobs for special people’ belongs in the twentieth century, and even then it wasn’t very welcome.
Why is this news? Why is a teacher any different from the thousands of fully qualified people working through job-bridge?
beggars cant be choosers if I needed money I would do anything for it and would take the job, even if its low paid.
Would you steal for it?
And while everyone else is whinging about it, smart people are applying…
Ah yeah, smart enough to a job they’re fully qualified for while getting paid a fraction of the minimum wage. The modern equivalent of building famine roads.
Bet your an employer taking part in this scam. Smart people don’t fall for scams like that
A few years ago people whinged they couldn’t get a job because employers wanted experience… The fact is, there’s a qualified teacher out there somewhere doing nothing and going nowhere today. Tomorrow, they could be getting much needed experience. Money doesn’t come in to it. So long a its not displacing a job, why not?
Do you really believe it’s not displacing a job? At the very least it’s denying someone properly paid subbing work, more likely allowing the school to avoid creating a temporary position for 1 academic year. The naivety is astounding.
O’Reilly, they HAVE the experience. Everything the job description claims it will train them in and give them experience in, they have already done. Sure, all experience is worthwhile, and a bit more might give someone the edge, but it’s unfair to exploit vulnerable people
“Much needed…. Money doesn’t come in to it”??? How do *YOU* live, if “money doesn’t come into it”?
Actually, I extend my apologies to you, Sir. I apologise. My ancestors died for NO|THING and you have NOTHING to fear, whatsoever.
Tim, how is the unemployed teacher living now? What is he/she doing all day. You’re missing the point completely. You were prepared to scrub toilets to get to where you needed. If this internship is not displacing a job, what’s the problem. And Tim, less of the hysterics. My ancestors certainly didn’t die for a handout culture…
The unemployed teacher is doing what I did as an unemployed teacher back in the eighties; working a day here, a day there, a week here, a month there. Night classes, teaching Spanish students in the summer, homework clubs…basically anything they can lay their hands on. It is not regular, but they get paid for the work they do at a reasonable rate.
When I was unemployed, I signed on during the holidays – I was not part of the hand-out culture, but I had paid my contributions when I was working, and had no problem getting help when I was not.
Teachers giving out as usual. its the same in so many industries yet all we hear about in the media is teachers/nurses
Tús is another seemingly less well known “initiative” which basically forces the long term unemployed to work for local services/charities. At least with JobBridge it takes an application; you either take part in Tús or your payment is affected and as far as I know, selection from the department of Social Protection is fairly random.
Why is this news now? Are teachers any different from the thousands of qualified people already on jobbridge? No. Typical ” sense of Entitlement” attitude from public sector.
U really must have ur head up ur ass there rodrigo!! U must b one of these people who tink teachers have it handy, it’s a great way to get another load of highly qualified people to leave these shores by exploiting them rather than creating employment for them. The government are happy to take the massive fees off them then cut the number of teachers and then to exploit them in this way after they are qualified as the skills they say they will gain they have already gained through collage and teaching practice!! And I’m not a teacher just concerned parent who sees the value of proper education!!
Heartbreaking really. I’ve been qualified since 2009 and went back to do a Masters in Education, which hasn’t made a difference in landing a teaching contract. I’ve been subbing non stop in many different schools for years and am tempted to apply for a Job Bridge Scheme like this, purely because I know I’ll be in the same place with the same kids everyday. Sad face.
*Burton* not Bruton
Welcome to jobbridge, from a qualified engineer who would count himself lucky for an internship.
@O’Reily et al, Go ahead and APPLY for the #slavebridge if you like it so much. Please post your application email here, so we can see how eager you are to find work, not SPONGING off the state, like?
Next thing they ll advertise for NCHDs!
I agree Job Bridge is also “exploitative and demeaning to most people from on it.
In a lot of cases the the internee is more qualified than the mentors.
In the tail end of the last recession (1993) my first professional work placement would now be called an internship now. We all had degrees and worked in a national cultural institution, receiving £77 per week on a community work scheme but it was a better option than to work behind a shop counter in London. My two years of archival research experience is still noticed on my CV. The gallery curator gave me a reference for my present teaching position. On the other hand, I understand the annoyance about the casualisation of the teaching profession… Kind regards, Part-time FE teacher
They are not being forced into the role at gun point. If a newly qualified teacher was satisfied with the conditions set, why not let them take the role?
It is the same as every other job on the jobbridge program (Which I took part in). Certainly not perfect, whole concept of slave labor and being taken advantage of, but gives you career experience which is invaluable to have on your resume now and later in life.
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