The queen has never shot or bombed anybody, and it’s pathetic and childish to suggest that she has.

@Eye_c_u: well bar Diana

@Laura Walsh: They just want to sell newspapers. They don’t care about balance or looking at an issue in its entirety – their approach is reductive, simplistic and designed to appeal to a certain demographic. It’s a business model.

@Laura Walsh: There will never be peace between Ireland and England – too much hatred still exists on both sides, that’s obvious with the comments on here.

@Neal, not Neil.: The suggestion that the monarch of a country that has colonized and terrorized half the world has innocent blood on her hands is pathetic and childish? Ok Neal. Or Neil.

Somebody has to order the killings pm minister etc Bloody Sunday didn’t happen on its own but when it’s a government that’s the terorists no one ever takes responsibility

@Lorraine Gardiner: ireland and England are at peace, it’s the nit jobs on the failed statelet that have the issues.

@Lorraine Gardiner: Lorraine I think one of the main barriers is that the history module in English schools teaches children only of the ‘great’ empire and nothing of the atrocities committed over here. Because of that, many of them spout complete and utter ignorance and disregard for the Catholic and republican sides of the Troubles (don’t forget not all Republicans engaged in violence). My partner is English and it very much annoys both of us. In order to move forward into the future, you have to acknowledge the past.

@Neal, not Neil.: no but does she sleep at night knowing it was done in her name ?

@Neal, not Neil.: Oh come on – her son is head of the parachute regiment who shot those people on bloody sunday – and is head of the armed services who bombed the hell out of Iraq and countless other nations – including killings in our own country. Both sides have blood on their hands.

@Laura Walsh: Yes. Pathetic and childish. Symbols and figureheads don’t kill people. Guns and bombs do.

@Old Gabby Johnson: She is not responaible for her son’s actions, any nore than Martin McGuiness’ mammy is responsible for his.

@Laura Walsh: you are wrong on the English School syllabus, but I am happy for you to cite where they only learn about their victories and great acts in Ireland. For instance, the history module carries a large subject called the “Irish Question” and details the political and military deeds committed by The British in Ireland. In Sociology they are taught about Gerry Mandering and discrimination against Catholics in the Northern Irish workplace. How do I know this, because I went to secondary school in England and studied all these things and to me it seems the real ignorance is being spouted by you.

@Laura Walsh: or tony Blair

@Neal, not Neil.: you must be the only commentator on her that is happy the red thumbs are gone

@Laura Walsh: The Daily Mail and the Katie Hopkins’ of this world really need to be ignored, they are not news or an opinion, merely a pathetic reactionary stance to grab attention, like the schoolyard show off.

What’s it got to do with the queen? She sent her condolences.

McGuinness was a senior PIRA commander during a bombing campaign which murdered and maimed thousands of innocent civilians.

Vile arrogance on the part of Shinners to demand that such victims treat this thug as a “man of peace”.

It has been done in her name

@Laura Walsh: Let’s get this straight, you think the Queen directs the British soldiers? Seriously?

@Right2change Midwest: I’m pretty sure that since the 1900s, no British soldier, or unionist, actually thinks of Elizabeth Windsor Battenburg when trying to justify killing. They do it for their interpretation of nationalism, no matter what side. The Queen, like Pearse, Connolly and Cuchullain are just used as part of ridiculous romantic justifications to get other people to do the killing since we moved on from doing it for religion.

@Laura Walsh: Part of the problem is that people are very quick to shout out when the Brits carried out killings… but when it’s the IRA doing it, it was all supposed to be acceptable/understandable… therein lies the problem. Double standards where people don’t really know what they believe.

ie. Can’t have it both ways, either you approve of violence or not.

@Paul Fahey: nice one Paul. I am English and went to school in England.

@Neal, not Neil.: Diana!! She should admit she was involved we all know she did it.

@Neal, not Neil.: She is commander in chief of the British armed forces and therefore directly responsible for carnage and devastation in more countries than one

@Paul Fahey: did the English syllabus have a view on the British armies involvement in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, the collusion with loyalists, the torture of suspects or the fact that the army detonated the Enniskillen bomb at a time to ensure maximum civilian casualties. Did they explain why the army along with the ruc could shoot unarmed civilians with impunity

@Scundered: hardly double standards if you have a foreign army occupying your country they are legitimate targets, as are those who assist them. When the British army surrendered the IRA were prepared to call a ceasefire and accept that a united Ireland would be achieved by hammering the unionists politically.

@Diarmuid: peace could only be achieved when the war was won. You can blame your mates in the British army for not surrendering sooner.

Except Joe you didn’t have to be a member of the security forces or a colluder to be considered a legitimate target by the IRA. You just had to in some cases a protestant or in other cases out doing your Saturday dhopping, or maybe just out having a beer on a Friday night.

@Paul Fahey: that’s funny because my Bro in law is English and before he moved here he hadn’t a clue about what had gone on over here. He was actually horrified when he found out. Maybe they don’t teach it in private schools considering the English rugby team didn’t know about it either when they came to Croke Park.

@joe o hare: would that be the same Enniskillen bomb that McGuinness had information on and could have stopped? In the same way were you taught about Warrington, Manchester, Canary Wharf, Harrods, Chelsea Barracks, Deal………. only I cannot find any of those on the Irish syllabus.

Now, feel free to cite any detail where the English are only taught one side of Irish history, very much like you apparently.

@Teddyzigzagbigbag: what utter nonsense, but when you hide behind a cloak of anonymity your brother in law could be Bilbo Baggins for all we know. Sorry, but it is factual they are taught the good and bad of British involvement in Ireland, but please feel free to cite details of their curriculum to back your claims. You will find that the curriculum only covers certain periods and the Croke Park massacre was not one of those. Perhaps even search for the book “The Irish Question” which was one of several we used.

Except when she honoured those that ordered others to do so

@Paul Fahey: here you go D**chead. Straight from bilbo’s mouth
https://newrepublic.com/article/88797/british-empire-queen-elizabeth-india-ireland-africa-imperial

@Neal, not Neil.: hay kneel the prime minister of Britain has to get royal approval to invade a country STILL NO WORD OF THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION

@Neal, not Neil.: tell us what do the English parliament have to do to attack or make peace with another country? Yeah they have to ask the monarch for permission so shes sanctions all actions made fact.

@Scundered: ues she does as parliament have to ask her permission to go to war or make peace thats a fact

Is Scottish or Welsh history taught in English schools? Why should Irish history? I’ve said this many times before: the English don’t give a tinkers about Ireland. It’s the nutters who want to be oppressed and offended who keep this shi@e going.

Was the army not brought to NI in 1969 to defend the nationalist community from unionists gangs? It wasn’t an invading force either; like it or not politically NI is British. Recognised by the rest of the world? Yes

@Teddyzigzagbigbag: oi bellend are you seriously putting that up as a citation of credibility of the English schools syllabus. Stay behind your cloak if anonymity.

@joe o hare: How on earth do you call car bombing the towns and villages along with civilians “legitimate targets”?

Why should they be aware of it? What’s done is done and we move on. The only way is to leave the past behind. Unless you actually enjoy passing your hate onto your children like baiting a fighting dog and ensuring it goes down the generations. You have to stop it sometime.

@Damocles: Tell that to Theresa May and her cronies. The British Empire is dead, but she seems to think she can revive it… delusional idiots the lot of them

@Kevin Slater: I agree with you except this is British history too. Look it’s natural that every culture glorifies itself and closes it’s eyes to anything that’s unflattering. We Irish are the worst at it but Paul above ^ was just spouting the usual rubbish so I wanted to put it straight.

@Laura Walsh: the brits murdered 1million Iraqi people and part to blame for the rise of isis all for what?.Martin saved countless brit lives by bringing peace to the north of Ireland Britain has no credibility left.

@Kevin Slater: the invasion took place centuries before.

@Lorraine Gardiner: there has been peace between Ireland and England since Michael Collins brought the Empire to its knees in 1921.

@Alan Brogan: the people of the Bogside, Creggan Derry and Country wide will show you tomorrow at his laying of rest just how wrong you are.

@M Bowe: another comedian.

Maybe ,but those in mount joy didn’t bring peace to an entire nation ,did they .What he did in the past was wrong but what he did after is what defines him ,he put aside his hatred and strived for a better Ireland.

@Slew Lok: his whole life defines him, not just a part of it.

@Eye_c_u:
I wouldn’t imagine he would of cared two flucks about your forgiveness. Or anyone else’s for that matter. His criminality is a very subjective thing and you’ve never walked a day in the mans shoes.
You’re no different to Tatcher who refused to “talk to terrorists” and that’s why we never saw peace in her time. Thankfully that attitude died with her except for a few lingering Tatcherites like Brogan there. Even Paisley eventually understood inclusiveness was the key to peace. Don’t forget also he had to persuade the IRA to engage for his part and keep them onside. Only a trusted IRA man could have filled that roll – whether the negotiators liked it or not. Some gobsh!tes still don’t get it to this day.

@Alan Brogan: like him or hate him everybody is entitled to their opinion. I for one believe in what they were trying to achieve but not in the way they went about it. Also there is two sides to the story as always so you can not blame one side or one individual

@Eye_c_u: so by that rational the British empire should still be our enemy? All I see here are hypocrites. Always telling us to move on and grow as a nation. The British and what they did to us should be forgiven, which I agree with. But you then have the same people telling us that Martin McGuiness is a murderer and always will be. And we shouldn’t vote sinn fein ( for which I don’t) just because they’re murdering backstards. Some people would wanna take a good look at themselves and their moral compass.

@Alan Brogan: y

@Alan Brogan: you are a complete idiot

@Eye_c_u: you are very much incorrect with your Marxist claim. There may have been Marxist connotations with some Provo members but they certainly could not be described as Marxist. The likes of the officials and the INLA were much more Marxist in their belief system. And it was for this reason that the Brits and particularly British media were initially more concerned with the Officials and INLA because of their far left ideology.

The difference between the petty criminals and McGuinness is that McGuinness and co had a mandate from the people who voted for them post 1986. The Provos could not have functioned without support.

McGuinness and SF/PIRA was thrashed at the ballot box, north and south, for 40 plus years.

Nobody gave this man the right to promote the murder of innocent civilians, the majority of whom were Irish.

@Diarmuid: that’s funny considering they’ve only been contesting them officially for 31 years..

@Andrew English: LOL! Nice.

Diarmuid, you’re being a lot more careless with your 4-5th ‘dairmuid’ account than you were with your third one.

I’d not go as far as to say a great day diarmuid. It’s good that yes one of the old guard involved in murders is out of the picture. Bad bad because he was a stability. Who fills the shoes of such a well know figure might be not so……. compromising.

@The Risen:

NO! Newspapers and do NOT ‘write for their readership’… propaganda works the other way round. They tell their readers what their (establishment) owners want them to think.

It’s only in exceptional circumstances like this, in editions sent to a foreign country, where they know demonising Irish nationalism won’t wash any more, that we see a different approach.

On all other topics, its all corporate/establishment propaganda.

@Tweed Cap: best thing about the new journal format is you can mute the trolls like Alan B and his 40 accounts. Don’t even reply, just mute the mongo

@Alan Brogan: oh look it’s the triggered warrior. Brogan if you have nothing good to say of the dead then let it be, I know the likes of you liberal justice warriors can’t have a reasonable discussion. If you can’t accept the man did good for the people of Ireland then your clueless moaner.

@Eoin Mulhern: The Sun should be de-listed as a ‘Newspaper’ its a clear misrepresentation and the mail isn’t far behind them. Shame on any member of the human race who buys them – great for the old fire though and for cat litter trays – so i guess there is that.

I normally despise the Mail, but showing the innocent victims of IRA atrocities instead of adding to the over-the-top martyrdom of the perpretrators seems a very reasonable and humane approach. Credit where it’s due.

The vast majority of Irish people also rejected SF/PIRA and McGuinness’ toxic ideology.

A fact Shinners are try to write out of history.

@Diarmuid: a terrorist is not someone defending what is rightfully there’s , fact

@Dave Doyle: No one talks about the UVF, RUC OR ANY OTHER Loyalist criminals organisations crimes or criminality. The army had their shoot to kill policy, internment with torturing. Then Loyals in the 1920s killed 500 Catholic children, in 1912 Loyalists started killing Catholics due to fear of Home Rule and in the 1880s Loyalists were killing Catholics. Catholics were attacked if they were found out working for H&W as their heels of their shoes were painted white to let Protestant workers know to attack them in the shipyard as the history of the Titanic can testify to. McGuinness was the result of Catholics having no civil rights because they were Catholics. This includes no right to property, education or to vote, while Protestants at the same time had more than 1 vote according to the amout of property they owed. People need to learn that things don’t just happen, that people create these situations in the first place that create them. Funny how you use Nelson Madela as he became the best arms dealer South Africa ever had and that can be googled with Mark Thomas also?
People choose what they want to know and believe?

@Dave Doyle: It is funny how people use Nelson Madela as a hero and as President he was the biggest arms trader for South Africa going, people choose their heros and that wasn’t a you you but a mistake…

@Diarmuid: And before this the Catholic community was terrorised for being Catholic?

@eastsmer #IRExit: And many Irish live and work happily in their country – but when did they invade Ireland, as Mary typed?

@Fank Pulman: Never.

Startling that people don’t know that!

@Mary Mc Carthy: The hypocrisy of those two injured children on the fron of today’s Daily Mail, hypicritically running from a pefectly justifiable IRA atrocity when they know full well their great great great great great grandparents probably invaded India or somethingm

@Fank Pulman: they invaded January 1801 after the Irish rebellion war of 1798. They’ve been here since. Don’t be an ape asking when did they invade. You’re clearly English by making a stupid comment like that. Northern Ireland is on the island of Ireland. Ruled by England. So how can you say when did england invade??

@Fank Pulman: They invaded Ireland afyer the Irish rebellion war of 1798. Took effect from january 1801. So dont be saying stupid things like that you clown.

@Fank Pulman: Look up your history books Frank . Did you ever read about the enslavery of the Irish People in our own country , the rape and pillage of our land , the Famine , the Coffin ships , the 1798 Rebellion? Did that all bypass you in your history lessons ? They took our lands , enslaved our people , destroyed our language , tried to wipe out our culture and wiped out millions of our people . Fortunately for us our will to survive was far stronger than they thought . # Irish and Proud

@Fank Pulman: They invaded Ireland in 1801 after the Irish rebellion war of 1798. So as you can see england has been here awhile. So maybe you should keep your trap shut.

@Barry Mitchell: The English are only here since 1801 – when they repelled a rebellion?!

@Mary Mc Carthy: Answer the question, Mary..

@Barry Mitchell: Can we all please stop calling each other names? I’ll put ya on the naughty step. ;)

@Barry Mitchell: Maybe you should mind you manners. That’s just my opinion. No offence intended. :p

@Fank Pulman: The level of ignorance of some posters is astonishing, and mind-boggling…

@Barry Mitchell: the only actual invasion was well before that when the normon colony of the pale, which consisted of English immigrants started to extend their rule beyond the pale. This is where the Tudors started to replace Irish identity with English settlements, initially peacefully (exemplary plantations) but all subsequent plantations were forced by replacing local brehon law Lordships with English ones, and installing army undertaker to enforce this. They did have some capitulation by the Irish chieftains, but in the main this would be considered an invasion rather than colonization. Everything after that was just rebellion, insurrection and eventual Independence.

@Gulliver Foyle: The Normans invaded Ireland first in 1169 – after their invasion of Britain in 1066; this was the beginning of foreign rule.
Kilkenny Castle is a fine Norman legacy. Britain had been invaded previously – most notably by the Romans, who left after about 300 years. The Normans never did – and, in some people’s eyes – have morphed into the English!

@Fank Pulman: I did Frank . Pity you have not the concept to understand history . Our land was invaded and taken over in the14th / 15th Century . Instead of making stupid comments why don’t you spend your time reading history

@Mary Mc Carthy: Please – who (from Britain) invaded us and when, in the 14/15th centuries?

@Barry Mitchell: Barry – could you help? You thought the English invasion was in 1801!

@Fank Pulman: People type awful tripe on here – and just hope that their fantasies and inaccuracies won’t be noticed. When they’re challenged – you’re called an ape, coward, blueshirt, English, traitor, idiot, muck savage etc.

@Fank Pulman: In October 1171, King Henry landed a large Anglo-Norman army in Ireland to establish control over both the Cambro-Normans and the Irish. The Norman lords handed their conquered territory to Henry. He let Strongbow hold Leinster in fief and declared the cities to be crown land.

Two seconds to google.

@Pablo: We’ll done Pablo – Google is your friend. The Norman led invasion (which included some conquered English) was the beginning of foreign/English rule for Ireland. Yet, we don’t despise the Northern French as much as the English.

@Fank Pulman: I despise everyone with the same heartiness. I am partial to a nice cider and a small wheel of Camembert however. Ahh the Normans we anglicized at that stage they’d been knocking around with women from Canterbury and the like for over 100 years

@Pablo: And they were busy too. Only came in 1066 and had the Doomsday Book done by 1086! They never left our two islands and are in all our DNAs.

@Fank Pulman: yeah you’re one of em!

@Martin Flood: I just laughed out loud in my quiet office. Quality pun

@Boganity: ginger Baker wasn’t it? Or both!

@Martin Flood: After he’d had the Cream!

@Do the Bort man: That’s like thanking Jimmy Saville for starting up a children’s charity.

@Do the Bort man: how many did the queen shoot? McGuinness led a terrorist organisation.

@JJ O Riordan: @Scundered: As I said in my post, both sides murdered people, however, the British media only focus on what the IRA did, and ignore the innocent people the British Army killed in Ireland. McGuinness did indeed lead a terrorist organization, but because of his involvement at such a high level in the IRA, when it came to the peace talks, people in the IRA actually listened to him. By the way, I’m not a Sin Fein supporter by any means, far from it actually. My initial post was a dig at the one sided reporting from the British media, but thats to be expected.

@Gerben Uunk: If Gerry Adams was in the IRA it is up to those accusing him to prove it. Thats how western democracies work unless you would like to see internment without trial being accepted as a normal legal practice