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NIGERIANS ARE VOTING to elect a new president today in a knife-edge contest hit by Boko Haram violence and new technology problems.
Boko Haram, the militant group whose insurgency had forced a six-week delay in voting, appeared to follow through on their warning to disrupt the process by attacking a number of polling stations in the northeastern state of Gombe, leaving at least seven dead.
“We could hear the gunmen shouting, ‘Didn’t we warn you about staying away from (the) election?’” one official said after the shootings in Birin Bolawa and Birin Fulani.
Today, Minister for Foreign Affairs Charlie Flanagan and Junior Minister Seán Sherlock announced Ireland is dispatching 87 tonnes of emergency supplies to help families displaced by the Boko Haram violence.
Thousands of blankets, tents, cooking kits, jerry cans and other urgent supplies are being sent to northern Cameroon, where the refugees have fled to.
The airlift, worth around €900,000 will be send this weekend from the UN humanitarian response depot in Accra, Ghana, where Irish Aid pre-positions supplies for use in global emergencies.
“I am gravely concerned about the serious security situation in north-eastern Nigeria and that large parts of the Nigerian border with Cameroon, Niger and Chad have fallen under Boko Haram’s control,” commented Minister Flanagan. “Their attacks have driven people from their homes and it is estimated that 1.5 million people have been displaced internally within Nigeria and that over 150,000 people have fled to the neighbouring countries of Cameroon, Niger and Chad.”
As the brutal actions of this group continue to spread beyond its borders into neighbouring countries, Boko Haram now represents a threat to the peace and security of the whole region. This is a particularly difficult time, given today’s elections in Nigeria.
In many areas in Nigeria, the late arrival of officials and materials delayed the accreditation process in the morning ahead of the start of voting proper from 12.30 GMT.
New handheld technology to read biometric voter identity cards is being used for the first time, which the country’s electoral commission hopes will cut voter fraud that has blighted previous elections.
An apparent card reader malfunction forced President Goodluck Jonathan and his wife Patience to leave their poll station while the problem was resolved after hanging around in the scorching heat in his home town of Otuoke.
Fourteen candidates are contesting the presidential poll, while 2,537 hopefuls from 28 parties are vying for 469 seats in the National Assembly at the same time.
- With reporting from AFP.
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Why does everyone I meet want to slap Brian Hayes? And is Eamon Ryan wearing a Toupée?
Because he s a slimy git
If everyone can’t bear to look at Brian hayes (me included) what is he so high in the poles? Answer please people! ;-)
*polls
The grey vote, who are far more likely to vote and are stuck with a civil war politcs mentality. They are also the reason why FF are pollng in double figures.
what kind of a fool would vote for Brian Hayes it must be fools voting for fools. he is blatantly gross liar. I wouldn’t Rule out Tom Darcy
That’s right Jamin the “grey vote” & “Cival war” politics ! Pure SF selective drivel! At least Gerry was never in the IRA!!!
You mean you have to ask
Because that’s the Irish people for you they moan and moan but bottom line they do the same thing all over again. Not me
Every time I see Hayes’s smiling face on an election poster I just want to break all his teeth with my fist while vomiting all over him.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056353782&page=179
Here’s some stuff on Tom, showing how he blatantly lies about what happened in the court room to gather a following..
I think D’Arcy ruled himself out last night
‘Every time I see Hayes’s smiling face on an election poster I just want to break all his teeth with my fist while vomiting all over him.’
I wish I had your restraint
I got this overwhelming urge last night to slap Brian Hayes, with Eamon Ryan!!
Boylan owned Hayes. He is one smarmy git, his only purpose was to attack SF. Anytime he was caught lying/spoofing he put that horrible smug grin on his face.
Would be great to see Hayes fail in this election.
He couldn’t even look at Boylan when he was speaking to her.
I think Boylan picked the populist but incorrect target in Richie Boucher. The state’s interest in Bank of Ireland is now less than 10% I think and the money it was given has been largely repaid. While the salaries may be galling to most of us, at the end of the day the state has little say. The national debt is far worse due to the actions of Aherne and Cowan.
The only that can happen is voting power VOTE RIGHT. Don’t vote the git in please
Boylan was correct to target hayes in relation to boucher. Hayes hero Michael Noonan used the states 10% voting power to SUPPORT Bouchers pay and benefits package at the shareholders meeting last month.
So, while the state may ‘have little to say’, it can still say ‘we cannot support your pay package in these times of austerity’ instead of endorsing him.
Reg,
I’ve noticed that it seems to be FG PR policy to declare that the National Debt is worse now than it was during the days of the FF/Green government, but that’s not true is it?
The amounts paid to unsecured bondholders and the consequences of “Prom Night” are being shown to be disastrous. That is not something for which the previous government can be blamed, is it?
As details of the misrepresentation that led to the Bank Guarantee were revealed, this “government” decided not to consider whether the State made a lawful decision to accept bank debt.
I don’t know what FG policy is Paul but I’d imagine that the national debt is worse now than it was three years ago as we’re still borrowing to fill the gap between income and expeniture. Hardly rocket science. The big advantage I suppose (if you could call it that) is that we are borrowing at far lower interest rates.
Is that a convoluted way of saying that we have to borrow to pay interest?
Brian ‘Richie Boucher’ Hayes and the FG party are the party of bankers.
Where the hell is our debt write down? A seismic shift, a good deal for Ireland, it’s in OUR best interests..etc etc
FG the bankers and bondholder party. A vote for them is permission to tax you into oblivion.
A prime example of a right wing party.
Ultra right wing!
Blueshirt Neo-Cons and their Labour Nua Gilleys!
Sinn Fein need to add 28 billion in taxes with their uncosted budget.
A thousand bank robberies needed if they aren’t planning on raising taxes.
John, you know full well that the SF budget submissions have been costed and balanced. You can argue against the approaches proposed if you like, that would be another argument.
No we don’t know that. Sinn Fein may insist it is a fact, but that doesn’t make it a fact.
Embarrassing if you can’t produce the evidence.
Boylan will need to prepare an apology to Hayes unless you can.
A list of random unlinked proposals does not equate to a verified independently costed budget by the Dept.
Why can’t Sinn Fein even get the simplest things right? and worse still lie that they have when they are caught out?
You’re getting desperate John. Why hasn’t someone from the Department come forward today to support their colleague? Where is the statement saying that they have costed no SF budget submission? The submissions have been fully costed. I suspect you know this as well as anyone. Do you not think that Fine Gael would jump all over this if indeed Lynn was dishonest or inaccurate last night? Why haven’t they?
Publish the letter and let us see it.
Why is this so difficult? Two people on the debate called each other liars, I want to know which one is wrong. Truthfulness matters to me in election choices.
The Department is not going to come out and take sides; the conspiracy theorists would have a field day.
So you are basically telling me that Fine Gael would not come out to support their Dublin candidate if he were in the right? You know as well as I do that if Lynn Boylan was dishonest or inaccurate last night, the Fine Gael reaction today would make ‘a song and a dance’ look conservative. Lynn had the letter with her last night. Hayes didn’t want to know about it. He knew that it was genuine. He knew that the budget submissions were costed. As I said, he chanced his arm. He thought he could get away with a little bit of opportunism and it backfired. It was probably worth a go because as I said, the odds on Lynn having the letter actually with her were so slim as to be negligible.
Hayes was either ill informed or deliberately dishonest. If he were telling the truth you could be guaranteed there would be a Fine Gael clarification today. The onus is on them to counter Lynn. They aren’t making an issue of it though. Why? Because she was right.
The idea that SF budget submissions are costed is not exactly new either John. This has been common knowledge for a long time. Are you really suggesting that no one would have called them up on this some time ago? The Department wouldn’t have ‘clarified’ that they costed nothing? The government parties wouldn’t have disputed it? Fianna Fail would have accepted SF criticism that their alternative budget wasn’t costed without saying ‘neither was yours’. Come on John. Lets argue about something more realistic, if you wish to have a pop at SF.
I’ll keep an eye out to see if either party has anything to say on the matter.
I’m not voting for Sinn Fein’s EUR28 billion in extra tax, which is the more substantive issue. I’d like to see if the Department agrees that is the number if/when they get the budget delivered for their review.
If I hear the Word’s “inherited” , “Consensus” ,”Let me be clear about this”.., ..”Strong Track Record” any more I’m gonna feckin scream……
What other words grind your gears fellow commentators ???
“Previous Administration” – the one we have now is essentially unchanged since the days of the
“Previous Government” – the one we have now continued with the exact same policies implemented as a result of the
“Banking Crisis” – the one we have now is essentially the same as the one we had during the
“Credit Crunch” – the one that is about to happen is essentially the same as the one that took place as a result of the ineffective management of the “Previous Administration”
A crippled economy is worse than one which has been broken.
It’s time we admitted that a negotiated default is essential to the future of Ireland.
” From the get go ” usually sounds like from the gecko depending on who’s saying it.
You missed the part where FG admitted SF Finances are in fact sound and given the green light by Hayes own finance department. He protests to much me thinks.
It was hilarious. Hayes attacks Boylan, she holds up a letter from HIS OWN DEPARTMENT stating the opposite. You can actually see from his facial esxpressions that his whole strategy fell apart.
I didnt hear it, but i read on twitter. One of the other FG party members actually was quizzed on SF finances suggestions and after wriggling a bit he said admitted aswell they are actually sound and no holes. I would love to see that if true.
All any of them do is attack SF for sound bite and fear of increasing support for them and Independents etc..
Jamin more selective SF bull ….Boylan was out of her debth and just reading the same old boring script from the central committee !!!
Have you know i am not selective sf anything and my vote already cast yesterday as wont be here for Friday vote. And SF was not the only one who got a vote from me. So crawl away.
Please God let the people see Brian Hayes for what he is ?????? It is unprintable
“Boylan was out of her debth and just reading the same old boring script from the central committee !!!”
Actually what boylan ‘read’ was a letter from Hayes own department contradicting his claim of dishonesty against her party. It was a thing of beauty.
Hayes tried to pull a gay mitchell, and in the end he looked as out of his depth as that state provided lawyer in ‘My cousin Vinny’ after the witness told him ‘they’re reading glasses’.
Vincent LaGuardia Gambini: “I got no more use for this guy”
Let’s see the letter. Crucial issue for SF’s credibility. Did they just cut & paste responses to individual proposals or did they submit a budget that was independently verified by the Department?
Either SF or Hayes are lying. Werejam – any copy of the letter available for us to see?
The letter was sent confidentialy to Sinn Fein so they are taking legal advice on publishing it with a few to putting it in the public domain.
Lynn Boylan,in both debates,remained calm and answered questions fluently.
Hayes was obnoxious as usual,the ‘Tallaght’ Tory may be in for a shock this Friday,a vote for him is a vote for another ‘nodding dog’ in Europe.
I thought the format worked out ok for the Dublin programme last night but the South show the night before was ridiculous. 4 people on the 1st panel and 10 on the second – what bright spark came up with that idea …
Brian ” Ross Geller ” Hayes , thinking by mentioned Noonan in every debate the voters will be impressed. Paul Murphy from all debates comes across very well, able to get his point across and is impressive. Mantra Costello must be a member of a single party government as all we hear is 60/ 70 thousand jobs her party as created. Nessa Childers is the Meave Binchy wannabe , soft spoken , will be the voice for the people, what has she been doing the last number of years !
The two goons from Direct Democracy looked like they had just stepped out of a Mafia movie set
The first DDI guy spoke well, second guy came across a bit looney.
Spot on Bill. More like the ” great train robbers”
Actually , I think the second DDI guy spoke better , he done very well for himself on Vin Brown….
Vote UKIP
Surprise surprise Declan. The old fascist fart
Who’s old, who’s fascist? Clearly you’ve never heard of Dick Emery.
Or read the manifesto of UKIP.
Two weeks ago the BNP’s Nick Griffin openly criticised UKIP for being soft on immigration.
Is the black UKIP candidate in this clip a fascist?
http://news.sky.com/story/1265442/steel-band-walk-away-from-ukip-carnival
The European Commission, ECB and IMF are the fascists as is evident by the 225 billion debt debt around our necks for the next 30 years.
Wake up, you fool.
Bríd Smith won the night. She’s got bottle. She’s not afraid of the big boys. She could be the first real representative we send to Europe, besides the other ‘politicians’ who cannot wait to get their face into the trough.
What, and Paul Murphy wasn’t a “real” representative?
Well John apart from the fact that she is useless, self engrossed and lacks basic understanding of the most simple European issue. She is the do nothing, against everything, no answers type that the Socialist Workers Party usually put up.
She hadn’t a clue as to the composition of the national debt either. It had to be explained to her that about a third of our debt is directly related to the banks. The rest is all our ours.
John – I found that Brid Smith was clearly the outright Winner of the second Debate – she came across as a very able and competent person , who would do very well defending the interests of the Citizens of Ireland !
Jeez Ciaarri you must fancy her or something?? I think she won the “worse than useless class”. You must never had a GF?
Actually Paul Murphy came across as a very intelligent man who doesn’t have his face in the trough. Go Paul go.
Paul Murphy is intelligent and hard working. Way too far left for my liking though!
How, in the name of all that is good, is Brid Smith more representative than anyone else. Dublin, despite what it’s knockers would like to believe, is not one big Ballyfermot-Drimangh. Smith clearly has little time for the better-off (of which there are many in Dublin).
I hope Brid Smith is elected. We need far more women and far less men in politics.
Disagree we have likes of Burton in there and lorraine higgins and that other one from FG. We had likes of harney before. We need competent people be it women or men i dont care.
However Brid is competent so therefore only reason she should get in. Not because she is a woman.
I thought everyone barr fg lab did well. The ff woman dont know her name she should have not went with ff and i might have given her vote.
I do agree John the woman has bottle and she can handle Brain Hayes ??
Having to resort to sexist crap about a person’s looks is really all I’d expect from a labour party apologist and union hack!
30 bill000,000,000,000 less dept.. labour is working. Vote labour. Really Journal?? Do you have to advertise that c#$p here on this app? Hey anyone know what happened that magic electric cable that was built under the Irish sea to connect the UK and Irelands power grid? Is it purely for the export of energy from here?
Hayes must be the most hated man in Ireland!
He’s a close second to Hogan I would think. But yes he’s up there on the top of the list.
He is Paul but still the Question who is voting him in. ????? He can’t be at 22 per cent if no one likes him
Well in fairness there’s a fairly long list for that position
“Take nothing away from McCullagh and Miriam O’Callaghan, both excellent Prime Time presenters, ”
I’m sorry but i found McCullagh to be extremely condescending.
sneering at Tom Darcy for what seemed like ages, very unprofessional
Tom Darcy is very intelligent articulate man. He is truly on side of people who are at loss from what i have seen.
Dont know anything else about him. Hope he keeps his promises though if he is in.
he should grow the hair out though, both of them, one trying to be a brunette, the other a nordic blonde :/
grown men, Shatter was about as bad is it got though. Our very own Berlesconi and where do we leave Marty Whelan? That man burned the head off himself!!! No wonder it fell out!
and as small as that may seem, its a person trying to hide something, can lead to bigger things you know ; )
Brian hayes carries on like he told his careers teacher that he wanted to be gay mitchell when he grew up
And thats not right
Why was that idiot Ryan on? Just why?
Well Green Party’s Eamon Ryan got his priorities right in government during the financial crises……. free to air Heineken Cup games. All politics is local…….. Eamon Ryan for Head Bird Warbler at Bootherstown Bird Sanctuary
Some of these boring candidates demonstrate such ignorance of European affairs that they are unworthy of candidature, never mind election. A dull imagination, low intellect and a lazy disposition is uninspiring. This election is about the impact of Europe. It is not an audition for ineffective, jaded stooges and cheerleaders fantasising about issues that have nothing to do with the EU.
Not a great debates but your article left out the highlight which was the presenter having to concede there were bigger unanswered issues when Tom Darcy pulled him up over the bank loans. I’m surprised it’s not gone viral yet
Most people including the presenter last night don’t realise the importance of what Tom Darcy said. The banks were operating illegally and without licence, yet the media and the government continue to ignore this fact.
If anyone wants to see him make the point http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfemlighexs
That wasn’t what the presenter said, the presenter failed to understand what Tom was saying and just said that he wouldn’t take out money if he couldn’t pay it back..
And Tom Rooney, if the banks operating with a mistaken license was a good legal point, why does Tom Darcy require the support of the public.? The reason; because it’s not a big deal; the contracts still stand..
What Darcy is hoping for is that he can use smoke and mirrors to be elected, people will think he’s in some kind of legal right, then when elected he can bring in debt forgiveness; which is fair enough, just don’t lie about it..
This was a post on Tom’s facebook page, quickly deleted by the way..
“Looking at the reports on Tom’s case; he seems to be saying that he won his case regarding the banking licenses etc … my relocation of the case was that his wife’s legal team managed to secure the property for her as she wasn’t party to his massive property debts. And I do remember seeing a high court report from back around June of last year that said that Tom couldn’t show any evidence as to how the financial position of the bank at the time could make the debt illegal. It seems that Tom is making claims that are not actually accurate at all !!! … anyway .. like all failed developers it will be us the taxpayers that will pay the bill in the end … ”
Tom claimed he won the case because ‘the banks haven’t got a licence’; why did he win? He gave his property to his wife in time.. Why did he lie? Pure personal gain.. @tomrooney he’s taking people like you for mugs..
I find it hard to take to Hayes but have to admit he came out on top against Boylan. Hayes sounded professional & got across his points very well while Boylan just seemed to laugh off his points and didn’t sound very convincing
Ink Toner – As a pro Government a Party person , I wouldn’t expect you to say anything other then that , in fairness .
However , I live in a household where there are a selection of views and all agreed that Hayes came across as a smart a£se know all , who constantly put down everyone else in the debate!
Who constantly spoke in the background and constantly interrupted both The Curator and all of the other participants.
Arising from this , he is clearly not material that could in any way be beneficial to Ireland , while in Europe.
His denial of the letter from his Department and it’s clear veracity , rang entirely hollow too and was clearly an ‘own goal’ on his part , showing that he wasn’t even in touch with the Department that he was supposed to be functioning in !
Ink yer hardly a blue shirt supporter eh?
Ciarraioch I pity the other members of your household who have a differing political view to you.
They must get such an incesssant biased harranguing every day coming from your armchair.
Johngahan – At least it’s not a pro Government one – where the likes of you, try to justify every disaster in the mire and then come back arguing for more !
Isn’t it time that you were true to your conscience and admit for once in your life , that this Government are just not up to the job of serving the people of this part of Ireland ?
Nice to see you up a bit earlier today Ciarraioch spewing out your daily dose of SF propaganda! If Hayes is in “denial” what does that say about your beloved leader? I feel sorry for anyone in your household with different views as you sit there pontificating to all about how the world should be run on populist policies! Your not fooling anyone!
“the curator”, well I guess they made a gruesome gallery. Honestly, as neither a FG or SF supporter, I felt Hayes came out on top of that argument and Boylan knew well when to let it drop
Hayes came out on top with his condescending and arrogant debate. Even after his input he continued to spat with himself in the background. He is definitely not suited to the grand debating that is needed in Europe.
A vote for Hayes is a vote for a ‘yes’ man in Europe, now where has that got us before.?
Ink Toner – I tend to write things down actually , as everyone’s entitled to their views and opinions !
One thing though – I was reared in a Family , where we were thought to be honest and true to ourselves and when clearly wrong to stop digging the hole deeper ! Were you ? As you are clearly in a massive quandary nowadays , with this all time highest level of Government incompetence and faux pas ?
The problem with the Journal is it’s dominated by a large number of SF party media people & SF propagandists – ( remember Gerry’s twitter account kept running while he was locked up???) if you disagree or have a different view then they do , they try to discredit you & slag you off as “Government supporters”!!! Childish……
Your unquestioning absolute devotion to Sinn Fein is admirable Ciarraioch; you should not waste any discretion evaluating their policies, their past, their truthiness or weighing up their pro(vo)s and (ex-)cons. They are the perfect party for you; flawless and pure.
I think you should just vote for them.
Nice one johngahan spot on !
Ciarraoich did you learn the difference between think and teach? Like Karen, another SF borg, you seem to use the two verbs synonymously.
One of Ciarraioch’s favourite conspiracy theories is that all postings not reflecting absolute unwavering support of Sinn Fein are from a single user utilising multiple Journal IDs.
Jennifer, it looks like you might have caught Ciarraoich and one of his own alter egos in the act, sharing the same poor grammatical footprint.
It makes a lot of sense – they tend to attack in packs when they spot a non-believer on the forum.
Ink Tonker every one laughed at Brian Hayes he is a joke
Bri will get loads of ‘pats’ on the head in europe from Real heavy hitters for been a good boy if he is elected , ala sorkozy did to inda kenny
Not true Kathleen. Maybe in your house. He sure put boylan in her place.
Toner which show did you watch. All I saw was Hayes sneering and lying through his teeth as Boylan contradicted his lies and wiped the floor with him.
Oh the irony……JohnGone, InkBoner and Jenny from the Dorm, hunting like desperate Blueshirt bloodhounds…….and the fox long gone!!
“All I saw was Hayes sneering and lying through his teeth as Boylan contradicted his lies and wiped the floor with him.”
Correct. Between last night towards Boylan and the 4 v 1 fiasco towards Matt Carthy, its clear the establishments tactic was to attack SF rather than defend their own actions in government.
It backfired spectactularly, and the sooner we can get these guys to Europe to fight our corner the better.
All I saw was Boylan lying about having a independently costed pre Budget Submission by the Department Of Finance – and Hayes calling her out on it.
Sinn Fein seem very slow today to set the record straight.
Just like you kat just like you Kat
Agreed, SinAssist – they are becoming ever more shrill and desperate and I find it amusing, but of no consequence. If they and their political masters but half the effort into doing something for the country instead of for the party, we might be in a better situation.
Gerry- your having a laugh- having a go at Brid Smith- when in the past on this site you’ve nothing but been an apologist for the Labour Party and are we surprised? No as the trade union leadership are in the pocket of the Labour Party. Ask Labour and SIPTU/ICTU about FEMPI and how Jack and co- colluded with Labour to threaten public service workers into voting for haddington road. They are a disgrace to trade unionism. The sooner that Labour are wiped out politically the better. We need a real left alternative- we need to vote for it on Friday!
Hayes surprised me with his performance. Much better than I expected. Understandable he is polling so well: people on the doorstep must be actually listening to him rather than kneejerking with party political prejudice.
Sinn Fein came across pretty well too to give them a fair verdict; again listening to the candidate and not being prejudicial about her party.
Car Crash Television!!!!
@Hugh O’Connell, I’m surprised at your biased analysis of last nights debates. Tom Darcy and Ray whithead of Direct Democracy Ireland made some great points and both clearly demonstrated why our current system of representative democracy does not serve the people of Ireland. Tom Darcy stumped the presenter by getting him to admit he wouldn’t take a loan from a bank if he knew it was operating illegally and without licence but you didn’t even mention this. The Journal has lost all credibility over the last 3 years, it has become an agenda pushing soap box for extreme leftist views and a lot of people have become aware of this.
Tom, I’m a practising commercial legal professional and I had trouble understanding Tom, why? Because he was talking sh*te..
I wish they could have asked him what ‘crime’ it was he reported to the Gardaí.. He complained that AIB (coincidently the same bank that are soon to own his house) were guilty of ‘economic devastation’ between 2003 – 2011.. There are so many things wrong with that, it is quite clear he has no idea of how the legal system works and that he is yet another member of the freeman cohort..
Killjoy,
Your mind seems to operate only in legalese, and nobody mentioned anything about freemen so please refrain from the pathetic attempts at character assassination.
There is a moral aspect here, and it is a matter of fact that banks in Ireland were operating without due care and responsibility. Financial institutions have an obligation to act in accordance with liquidity laws. The financial institutions in Ireland were lending far beyond their reserve requirement knowingly putting the state and the citizens in the country at risk.
In the USA banks have an obligation to share the debt owed if they are found to have given loans irresponsibly.
Also, since you know so much about law Killjoy, can you explain to us what an odious debt is?
No, they weren’t breaking any liquidity laws, what they were doing was certainly unethical but in no way illegal, if you have some knowledge the rest of us don’t then take a complaint either to the Gardaí or the Central Bank that is a little more specific than Darcy’s showboating..
‘Operating without due care and responsibility’; and I imagine that Thomas Darcy, a property developer who took an €18 million euro mortgage out on his house knowing full well that should his business fail he would lose his house; who then faced the prospect of losing his house, exactly the deal he signed up for, he then decided he’d blame everyone else when he faced losing his home.. Hardly the picture of responsibility?
International Law is not my expertise but I can answer regardless. Odious debt is a theory that if a nation debt wasn’t incurred for the public good it shouldn’t stand.. Again, your asking of this shows that you’ve been hanging around with the DDI guys too much.. No one has EVER in the history of mankind successfully claimed that debt is odious and therefore not owed, and it’s generally used as an argument by populist rabble rousers or people with no knowledge of the law..
Killjoy,
you like to talk about the lack of knowledge of others yet you a supposed legal professional have demonstrated quite clearly here that you are in fact lacking in legal knowledge.
The president of Ecuador succeeded in reducing the national debt under the claim of odious debt, that was back in 2008. I knew about the concept of odious debt long before DDI existed so don’t jump to conclusions.
Haiti are also in the process of reducing their debt in the same manner.
Ireland needs a debt audit, then we need to seek the cancellation or massive reduction of debt that was taken by an incompetent and corrupt government.
Only a status quo shill would dare to argue otherwise.
The President of Ecuador proclaimed in a speech that the debt would be lowered or removed because it was odious debt.. He then later had it reduced by 60% on an entirely other point, essentially his creditors settled the case..
It’s kind of like Tom’s tactic: proclaim a load of legal mumbo jumbo until you gain enough popular opinion, then use that popular opinion as a lever to lower the debt, not actually using the original legal mumbo jumbo.
I’m not trying to promote a policy, if Tom runs on the ground of debt forgiveness and gets enough of a vote to implement the policy I’ll support him, that’s democracy. I don’t however like when someone makes up laws to justify their position, making everyone’s job incredibly more difficult..
Still searching the web this morning for Sinn Fein to publish their evidence from the Department Of Finance acknowledging they sent in their pre-budget submission and it was independently cost verified by the Department.
If they have such evidence the public must see it and Hayes has a big problem and Sinn Fein deserve an apology.
If Sinn Fein are proven to be lying about this it won’t make a jot of difference to Sinn Fein supporters. Such trivial matters as truth and honesty are irrelevant in their view.
But for the rest of society, who care about truth and honesty, we need to know.
Any Sinn Fein supporters have somewhere we can see the letter confirming their pre-budget submission was independently cost verified by the Department? Sending in a random list of questions about proposals and cutting and pasting the response is not submission of a Budget, nor its independent cost verification.
I’d like to see from who Sinn Fein are planning to extract another 28 billion in taxes.
No whataboutery please – just send a link to the letter from the Department that Lynn held up so as we can read it.
I’m sure you know as well as anyone else that private correspondence from a Government Department will not turn up on a google search. I presume this is why you are so adamant that you need to see this letter before you accept the fact that SF’s budget submissions have been costed.
SF’s budget submissions are online. The figures are provided in black and white. I’m sure if there are some figures that you, or Brian Hayes, or anyone else, takes issue with, you can highlight them. Look through the submission. Which figures do you suspect are inaccurate?
You’re clutching at straws with this letter business. Hayes quickly moved away from the letter. Why? Because he knows himself that it is genuine and that the SF budget submissions have been costed and balanced. He was chancing his arm. He got caught out.
They did not submit a budget and receive independent cost verification from the Department of it.
Making queries on separate proposals is meaningless. You need to add them all up first and then send them in as a budget and await the Department verification.
Is it Sinn Fein incompetence or dishonesty we should be more worried about?
There is nothing confidential about the document Boylan waved about claiming to be something that it is not; Sinn Fein can publish it on their website at any time. The fact that they aren’t demonstrates the obvious.
You’re clutching at straws John. You know as well as anyone else that the budget submissions are fully costed by the Department.
Why hasn’t a representative come forward from the Department today to support their colleague Hayes? Because the submissions have been costed. Do you not think that Fine Gael would jump all over this if Lynn was in any way inaccurate or dishonest last night? Hayes chanced his arm. The odds on Lynn having the proof actually with her were slim to say the least, he figured it would be worth a gamble. It backfired. Take it on the chin.
If you want to encourage people to vote Brian Hayes, or to disregard Lynn Boylan, try a different tactic. This one isn’t working.
Sinn Fein would be first to the media to prove Hayes wrong. They haven’t because they can’t.
Why can’t they just say ‘Our budget had not been independently cost verified by the Department in the proper manner, but we think it is a good one, please read it’.
Making a false assertion and calling those who correct them a liar is simply more hypocrisy.
That is a ludicrous suggestion. They haven’t gone to the media to prove Hayes wrong as they did that already last night. The onus is not on them. Fine Gael were caught out. If they feel that they have any evidence to contradict what Lynn said then the onus would very much be on them, obviously.
SF have been quite open and clear for a very long time that their budget submissions have been costed by the Department. They have stated this in Leinster House, in the media, in their own publications, and so on. This is not some idea that emerged last night. This is common knowledge. Are you really trying to tell me that no one from the Department would have come out and corrected them if they were in any way dishonest or inaccurate?
Sinn Fein have a letter in their hand: and are afraid to show us what it says in case it is merely cost approval of some separate proposals but not independent cost verification of a proper integrated budget.
Boylan should apologise.
Bri has looking smarmy and clueless at the same time down to a tee.
It was dreadful. Never seen such drivel in all my life. After watching this I don’t think I’ll vote at all. The first have was bad, point scoring and ignoring the real issues. The second half was like watching a sketch from a kindergarten school play. This country really deserves the politicians we elect and by **** don’t we get the worst.
If your not going to vote you are part of the problem and cant criticise anyone.
Don’t worry Gerry is telling porkys- he’ll be voting alright and it’ll be for his pals in Labour. He’s right about one thing- we have gotten the worst- traitors in Labour!
Were Eamon Ryan and Lynn Boylan separated at birth?
The only way I can tell them apart is the hairdo.
bad John! that is totally childish and this is a place for serious intelligent debate only!
While i accept the anger of the people & admire the good intentions of the left wingers, the fact that they cant seem to agree on what SHOULD be done to rectify the current economic situation(instead of just what shouldnt) is costing then hugely!
The collapse of the United Left Alliance showed that they couldnt be thrusted to run a country!
We need stability at the very least!
If you’re opposed to fracking, then be careful not to vote Fine Gael today! Don’t forget that all four Fine Gael (EPP) MEPs voted against a moratorium on fracking in November 2012 – http://www.votetracker.eu/fracking.html. Listen to what Séan Kelly and Mairéad McGuinesss had to say at the debate prior to the vote – http://bit.ly/1gW6xHO #EP2014 #frackfreeeurope
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