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LAST UPDATE | 13 Mar 2019
MPS HAVE HELD a crucial vote on whether to back a no-deal Brexit.
They voted against it in the end, but it was a confusing path to get there.
It’s important to remember that even though they’ve voted against a no-deal Brexit, that that isn’t a legally binding decision.
Prime Minister Theresa May told the House of Commons yesterday that without a deal, the default position is still leaving on the 29 March without a deal.
Here are the highlights from today:
Stay with us as we bring you the final result, reaction to it and what it means.
It’s Seán Murray here with you this afternoon and feel free to get in touch by commenting below, emailing sean@thejournal.ie, or tweeting me at @seanmjourno.
First, let’s catch you up with what’s been happening already today…
After the latest crushing defeat for Theresa May last night, the UK government published its plans for trade in the event of a no-deal Brexit early this morning.
It says there will be no new checks or controls on goods moving from Ireland to Northern Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
No import tariffs will apply to such goods in the immediate aftermath of a 29 March exit.
However, tariffs will apply to goods on the way into mainland UK.
And it is these tariffs on the likes of beef, lamb and poultry that have caused dismay in Ireland.
Irish Farmers’ Association Joe Healy said the beef industry, in particular, “will not survive the kind of tariffs being talked about”.
“We export over 50% of our beef to the UK. If this is subject to tariffs, it will be a ‘direct hit’ of almost €800m on the sector,” he said.
From midday, Brexit was the topic of debate in both the House of Commons and in the Dáil when leaders questions got under way.
Fianna Fáil’s Micheál Martin asked about the tariff proposals from the UK government, saying it would be devastating for the Irish economy.
With the Taoiseach in Washington, Tánaiste Simon Coveney acknowledged that tariffs would be ”damaging to businesses, farmers and consumers, whether in Ireland or the UK”.
He added the government will study any proposals carefully.
Coveney was also pressed by Sinn Féin’s David Cullinane, and was asked to give concrete answers to businesses and farmers in Ireland now a no-deal Brexit looks ever more likely.
Simon Coveney said Ireland has shown a willingness to be flexible and to take into account the political challenges in Westminster. “It hasn’t been enough,” he said, adding that it is now up to the British political system to try to find a way of resolving its own issues.
Speaking of the British resolving their own issues, Theresa May arrived at Prime Minister’s Questions this afternoon having not yet resolved the issue of her sore throat.
Anyone who watched parliament yesterday would have noted that May very clearly had a sore throat and it sounded even worse today.
But that didn’t stop her being combative as she traded the usual barbs with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn.
Actually, even Corbyn expressed sympathy for May as she attempted to reply through her strained voice.
But the sympathy didn’t last long.
They had a go at each other for quite a while, but it varied very little.
May did confirm that she would vote against leaving the EU with no deal on 29 March and accused Corbyn of having nothing to offer to the country.
The Labour leader meanwhile, told the prime minister her “deal is dead” and that she must seek to compromise now it was clear her withdrawal agreement would never get through parliament.
This was a strange one this morning.
A key blow to any chance of May’s deal getting through yesterday was getting a seal of approval from the Attorney General Geoffrey Cox.
Crucially, he said her new concessions from the EU didn’t materially change the withdrawal agreement.
The BBC’s assistant political editor Norman Smith said this morning that Cox didn’t get to see May’s revised deal until 1am on Tuesday morning.
However, the always sharp Virgin Media News political correspondent Gav Reilly then pointed out that the actual deal had been published several hours before at 10pm Monday on night.
So how will things progress this evening?
MPs are due to start debating whether the UK should leave the EU without a deal at 3.30pm today.
Theresa May – voice permitting – will begin that debate which will last until 7pm when MPs are due to vote.
Despite the House of Commons so far being unable to really agree on anything, it is widely expected that MPs will vote comprehensively against a no deal.
There’s a lot of talk going around about the Malthouse plan today which has the support of a number of May’s ministers, Brexiteers and former remainers… but what is it?
It’s an amendment to the motion that’s being voted on today that is effectively a “managed no deal”.
Under such proposals, the UK would remain aligned to the EU’s trade laws and rules for a period of two years.
After that, it would refer to World Trade Organization terms.
The support for Malthouse among Brexiteers is totally at odds with the EU, which has repeatedly refused the idea of letting the UK leave without a deal but also retaining the benefits of membership for a period.
Looking across the water now, and it’s a fine looking morning Stateside with our political correspondent Christina Finn on site in Washington for Leo Varadkar’s customary St Patrick’s Day visit.
It wouldn’t have been unexpected but nevertheless still disappointing when the Taoiseach got WiFi on his phone back and found out that May’s deal had been crushed again in the House of Commons.
He’s due to speak at a US Chamber of Commerce event at 4pm today our time, and we’ll update you on what he has to say then.
May has stopped speaking in the House of Commons for now, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer has been providing updates on the UK economy for the coming year.
Philip Hammond has said that lifting Brexit uncertainty is parliament’s “most urgent task” as he slashed the growth predictions for the UK economy for 2019 from 1.6% to 1.2%.
So, back to the tariffs in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
Just as a reminder, the UK government has said there will be no new checks or controls on goods moving from Ireland to Northern Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
Sinn Féin’s David Cullinane told the Dáil it was ironic that the UK was making a special case for Northern Ireland in tariff terms, given the derision so many in parliament had for the Irish backstop.
It’s official Labour policy to back a second referendum now, but former prime minister Tony Blair has been among those calling for one for some time.
In this video this afternoon, he says there will be “no closure” for people without another referendum given how disastrously Brexit has been handled in the House of Commons.
The Guardian’s Lisa O’Carroll, meanwhile, dug deep into the info provided by the UK government on tariffs and found that imports of underwear will go up 12% under the new regime.
The Irish Congress of Trade Unions has sent in a statement following the tariffs news this morning, and it is clear they’re worried how it could affect jobs here in Ireland.
Its general secretary Patricia King has said the government should adopt measures to protect and families from the impact of the tariff system the UK has announced in the event of a no-deal as a matter of urgency.
King said: ‘The Government also needs to adopt specific measures to minimise the impact of tariffs on low-paid workers and low-income households.
The Low Pay Commission warns that the negative impacts of Brexit are likely to be fall disproportionately on low-skilled workers and low-income households. Special provision needs to be made for these citizens.
An unfortunately true assessment here from DCU political science professor Eoin O’Malley.
We could end this week back where we started, albeit with a slightly delayed Brexit.
Although it appears likely Brexit will now be delayed, those countdown clocks on every news bulletin do serve as a reminder that the UK is actually due to leave the EU in just a couple of weeks’ time on 29 March.
It is this that makes advice like this from the Department of Health in the last few minutes all the more pertinent.
From the EU’s side, there is the feeling that there is nothing more that Brussels can do to help the beleaguered May after her vote was defeated last night.
Earlier today, a spokesman for Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council, said he regretted the result, but warned that from Brussels’ viewpoint “it is difficult to see what more we can do”.
“With only 17 days left to 29 March, today’s vote has significantly increased the likelihood of a ‘no-deal’ Brexit,” the spokesman said.
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier echoed the view, saying there was nothing more Brussels could do.
“The EU has done everything it can to help get the Withdrawal Agreement over the line. The impasse can only be solved in the UK. Our ‘no-deal’ preparations are now more important than ever before,” Barnier tweeted.
This piece from Guardian columnist Marina Hyde is getting shared a lot on Twitter at the moment.
It contains this quote from Conservative backbencher Steve Double which is one I do admit I missed last night.
“This is a turd of a deal,” he intoned to the House of Commons, “which has now been taken away and polished, and is now a polished turd. But it might be the best turd that we’ve got.”
There is some degree of surprise to the tone taken by Chancellor Philip Hammond in his speech to the Commons following May.
Ostensibly, he’s a close supporter of May and enjoys the most senior position in his Cabinet.
But he used his speech today to call for a softer Brexit than the one the prime minister has been advocating.
It is this kind of softer Brexit that the Labour party has been advocating for.
But shadow cabinet office minister Jon Trickett has been speaking to the BBC this afternoon and bemoaning the Conservatives’ refusal to “tango”.
“It takes two to tango and the fact is the government won’t tango,” Trickett says.
The UK government may not have taken Labour to tango, but we do know Theresa May likes a boogie herself.
Aha. Theresa May’s voice may have given out on her completely.
It’ll be her Environment Minister Michael Gove – of stabbing-Boris-Johnson-in-the-back fame – that’ll kick off the debate.
Another take on the whole mess courtesy of European Parliament’s lead Brexit spokesperson Guy Verhofstadt.
He’s comment on a letter shared by Donald Tusk – European Council president – on Instagram.
“Sometimes it takes a child to put everything in perspective,” he says. “What a terrible waste #Brexit is.”
Snap poll: Do you think MPs will vote to back leaving the EU without a deal this evening?
As businesses here fear the impact of Brexit – particularly a no-deal Brexit – employers in the UK are similarly exasperated with the goings-on at Westminster.
In a statement this afternoon, Carolyn Fairbairn from employers’ organisation the Confederation of British Industry, slammed the politicians’ handling of Brexit.
“It’s time for parliament to stop this circus,” Fairbairn says.
“A new approach is needed by all parties. Jobs and livelihoods depend on it. Extending Article 50 to close the door on a March no-deal is now urgent.”
The British Chambers of Commerce (BCC), which represents thousands of firms, also insisted that a “no deal” exit had to be avoided.
The rumours continue to swirl around Westminster about what exactly each Brexit faction is planning.
The Sun’s political editor is saying that Brexiteers are planning to table an amendment to rule out a 2nd referendum ahead of the vote to extend Brexit tomorrow.
Sinn Féin has been having its say this afternoon on the Westminster goings-on.
And they’ve unsurprisingly attacking the DUP for its policies on Brexit.
Its deputy leader Michelle O’Neill said: “I’ve just been speaking to business and farming leaders and it is clear that there is a growing sense of alarm at where this process is heading.
That is where the DUP have taken us. They have consistently shown a callous disregard for the people who live here. Later today, they have said they will vote to increase the likelihood of a No-deal crash. In so doing they are threatening the economic future of us all.
BBC reporting that Downing Street has said that MPs will get a free vote on the aforementioned Malthouse Compromise – which Brexiteers favour but the EU has said isn’t a runner whatsoever.
To re-cap, it’ll mean the UK leaves with a no-deal on 29 March, keeps EU rules for two years and then reverts to WTO arrangements.
For this to happen though, it’ll need for the EU to also agree to it. Which it hasn’t. And has said it won’t.
This should be fun.
That’s it from me for now, but I leave you in the more-than-capable hands of my colleague Gráinne Ní Aodha for the rest of the afternoon as the no-deal debate gets under way shortly in the House of Commons.
Hello everyone, Gráinne Ní Aodha here. Welcome to the chaos that is the UK parliament trying to decide how they should leave the EU.
Michael Gove, as promised, is answering questions in the House of Commons now on Theresa May’s behalf. You’d assume that she’s resting her voice after a day and a half of struggling to debate with a sore throat.
He’s chiding MPs for not voting for May’s deal last night.
All of the choices left, are “less attractive than the Prime Minister’s deal”, he says, adding that leaving without a deal would subject the UK to a number of constitutional and legal challenges.
Here are the amendments that will be voted on tonight, which have just been selected by the House Speaker John Bercow.
(a)
Line 1, leave out from “House” to end and add “rejects the United Kingdom leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship.”
(f)
…notes the steps taken by the Government, the EU and its Member States to minimise any disruption that may occur should the UK leave the EU without an agreed Withdrawal Agreement and proposes that the Government should build on this work as follows:
“1. That the Government should publish the UK’s Day One Tariff Schedules immediately;
“2. To allow businesses to prepare for the operation of those tariffs, that the Government should seek an extension of the Article 50 process to 10.59pm on 22 May 2019, at which point the UK would leave the EU;
“3. Thereafter, in a spirit of co-operation and in order to begin discussions on the Future Relationship, the Government should offer a further set of mutual standstill agreements with the EU and Member States for an agreed period ending no later than 30 December 2021, during which period the UK would pay an agreed sum equivalent to its net EU contributions and satisfy its other public international law obligations; and
“4. The Government should unilaterally guarantee the rights of EU citizens resident in the UK.”
Dominic Grieve, a barrister and a Tory MP, says he has no reason not to vote for the motion tonight, which rules out a no-deal Brexit.
He said that this would mean they would need to request an extension, and that the Withdrawal Agreement needs to be altered to change the leave date within May’s Brexit deal.
Gove wholeheartedly agrees with that analysis.
Michael Gove is outlining how a no-deal Brexit could hit businesses and trading relationships if they were to leave on 29 March.
He talks about “dynamic alignment“, which is a period by which the UK would adopt EU rules for 9 months starting from a 29 March, in order to allow the UK government and businesses time to adapt to new rules. Gove dismisses this as they would be rule-takers without any say in what those rules are.
He warns that a very low number of businesses are prepared to trade in a no-deal Brexit environment.
Gove has just said that direct rule could return to Northern Ireland if MPs vote for a no-deal tonight.
Lady Hermon, an Independent MP for North Down speaks about the vulnerability of Northern Ireland in a no-deal Brexit.
Gove adds that there would be “particular pressures” on Northern Ireland.
David Sterling’s warning is referenced, and Gove calls him “esteemed” but adds that a restored Stormont Executive is possible.
If the UK voted for a no-deal, “we’d have to start formal engagement with the Irish government, for arrangements for providing strengthened decision making in the event of that outcome.
“And that would include the very real possibility of imposing a form of direct rule. Now that is a grave step, and experience shows is that it would be very hard to return from that step, especially difficult in no-deal.”
“This House has been very good at saying no – but it’s now ‘Make your mind up time’.”
- Gove getting a bit annoyed with his parliamentary colleagues there.
On this point here, John Bercow was asked if a third vote would be “out of order”.
He responded by saying that there is historical precedence for allowing for another vote.
“There is no ruling required now, but a ruling might at some point in the future be required,” he said.
Gove responded that after last night’s result, there is a series of unpalatable choices, and that the House needs to decide what it wants.
Labour’s Keir Starmer has said that the position in Ireland has been treated “casually”, as “if it’s all about a technical question about a line in the road”.
“The technicalities of the politics of Ireland goes way beyond the customs union and the single market, he adds.
He also says that he’s also concerned that because of what was said in the referendum, “there’s now a license to pretend that real risks and real outcomes won’t happen”.
Interesting extract about how Theresa May may have mishandled her approach to securing a Brexit deal…
“The people of Ireland know that the open border is the manifestation of peace”
- Keir Starmer on Brexit and Northern Ireland.
Meanwhile, Steve Baker of the ERG group, tweeted this out:
In the document, it says:
“The Irish border issue will be solved by administrative measures without need for a backstop – as all parties have promised in the event of no deal.
“The UK, Ireland and EU have all given assurances that if the UK leaves without a Withdrawal Agreement they will not introduce infrastructure or checks on the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.”
The document doesn’t state how they will avoid a hard border if different rules exist in the two jurisdictions.
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury Hon Elizabeth Truss told the BBC that the no-deal trade plans announced today are arrangements to deal with the “immediate no-deal issue”, and that they would work towards and agreement with the EU.
She also said, illuminatingly, when asked where checks would take place:
There are checks going into the UK from Northern Ireland, is my understanding under these proposals.
Just a reminder that if you want to draw my attention to something we’ve missed, you can email me at grainne@thejournal.ie, or send me a tweet @GAodha.
Feel free to leave your Brexit analogies and metaphors in the comment section below.
Those no-deal 0% tariffs from goods traavelling from Ireland to Northern Ireland aren’t as grand a gesture as they may seem, says Aodhán Connolly of the Northern Ireland Retail Consortium.
He says that such an arrangement would be “a goldmine for criminals”, and could turn Northern Ireland into “the Wild West of the UK”.
The UK can’t just “piss about for a few more months without aim or direction,” says Seb Dance, a Labour MEP, and also says that’s the general #mood in Strasbourg.
Whatever side of the Brexit debate you stand, this is impressive from Anna Soubry, former Tory MP and now a member of the Independent Group.
Watch it til the end.
Here we go: the Taoiseach’s take on the latest Brexit madness. Quite pointed.
“We are ready to deal with no deal,” Varadkar says.
On tariffs, the Taoiseach says:
“First of all, there is a supreme irony that the proposals today propose to treat Northern Ireland differently to the rest of the United Kingdom when it comes to customs.”
He says that many who voted against the backstop and the Withdrawal Agreement did so because they feared Northern Ireland being treated differently to Great Britain.
The
Echoing comments made by EU negotiator Michel Barnier yesterday, Leo Varadkar reiterated that there would be no transition period in a no-deal Brexit.
He also says Ireland is prepared for Brexit, as much as it can be.
The Taoiseach was asked about the letter sent by a British child to Donald Tusk, which had a unicorn at the end of it. A leading question, but nonetheless his answer was:
A lot of people who have advocated for Brexit have been chasing unicorns for a very long time. As we head in to the next few weeks it should be patently obvious that unicorns only exist in fairytales.
He asks those who advocated for Brexit to think: “Is this what they wanted? Protectionism, tariffs, borders, restrictions on trade…”
He said that the UK’s no-deal proposals are only workable in the short term, and “inevitably, it would mean that Northern Ireland would become a back door” to the EU single market.
He said that after a few months, it would lead for the need for checks at Northern Ireland’s ports.
“Those who opposed the Agreement may find that something very akin to the backstop is applied by the UK government in only a few weeks’ time.”
While the Taoiseach has been making his position on these proposals known in the US, this drama is unfolding.
One of the amendments has been tabled by Spelman (a), but she has tried to withdraw it. John Bercow refused her request to withdraw it, and said others can “move the motion”, meaning activating it so that it can be voted on.
Despite Theresa May’s statement last night saying that there would be a free vote, Tory MPs will be whipped (or instructed how to vote) on the Spelman amendment.
Cabinet members want to support it, but would break the whip in place if they did, so Spelman wants it withdrawn.
Here’s what that amendment means:
Prime Ministers motion: That this House declines to approve leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship on 29 March 2019; and notes that leaving without a deal remains the default in UK and EU law unless this House and the EU ratify an agreement.
Spelman amendment: Line 1, leave out from “House” to end and add “rejects the United Kingdom leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship.”
The latest on that pesky Spelman motion.
Caroline Spelman herself has spoken to Sky News there and given the following as her reasons for not moving her amendment:
“If people vote for the Prime Minister motion in large numbers, it would reveal “the true extent of the Parliament majority against a no-deal Brexit”.
Spelman’s amendment says something very similar to the Prime Minister’s motion, calling to rule out a no-deal Brexit on 29 March, but says it in much more certain terms.
Other signatories to the amendment can move on the amendment.
Our Paschal and the governor of Bank of England Mark Carney met today.
I wonder what they spoke about?
We’ve had a go of this around the newsroom here – it actually does come up with some compromises that sound like they could be tabled… give it a try, and send us in yours, if you don’t mind.
Sinn Féin president Mary Lou McDonald is in the US at the moment, and has echoed the Taoiseach’s statement from earlier:
“There is huge contradiction running through [the UK's] analysis at this point – on one hand they say there can’t be an exceptionality about the North… they reject that analysis, and on the next breath they produce a scheme that is unworkable and is a fantasy but which itself makes a distinction around the north of Ireland.”
“I don’t think that has the status even of a plan… it’s not a runner. It’s unworkable. And I suspect those that put this scheme together realise that.
It’s a source of some alarm that even at this eleventh hour the British are still playing a game of chicken… I think they need to stop that. I think they need to act now with some sense of honour, and they need to acquaint themselves with reality – and that reality is they cannot expect that Ireland will become collateral damage in their Brexit scheme.
When asked if she was surprised that the DUP seem comfortable with the tariff plan, she said:
“Nothing that the DUP does or says any more surprises me. My absolute wonderment at their level of recklessness remains.
I cannot and I will never understand for the life of me how it is the DUP can tell the farmers of Ulster, businesses in the north of Ireland, students, communities, workers, that this Brexit escapade is in their interests.
The vote on Spelman’s controversial amendment (a) is taking place.
Spelman didn’t want to move on it, so Yvette Cooper did instead; John Bercow explained how this was perfectly allowed, after there was some anger from the benches.
May’s government was hoping that MPs would vote in large numbers for her motion if Spelman’s amendment was taken off the table, which rules out a no-deal Brexit at anytime, not just on 29 March as the PM’s motion states.
By the way, here’s how to watch the vote:
Leo Varadkar’s message of hope ahead of the vote.
Kind words, but nothing concrete (which I suppose can’t be promised at this stage).
Some result.
Those who voted to rule out a no-deal Brexit at any point, not just on 29 March: 312.
Those who disagree with ruling it out: 308.
A very slim majority of 4 to rule out a no-deal Brexit in any circumstance.
MPs are now voting on the “Malthouse B” amendment (tabled by Brexiteers) which says this:
; notes the steps taken by the Government, the EU and its Member States to minimise any disruption that may occur should the UK leave the EU without an agreed Withdrawal Agreement and proposes that the Government should build on this work as follows:
1. That the Government should publish the UK’s Day One Tariff Schedules immediately;
2. To allow businesses to prepare for the operation of those tariffs, that the Government should seek an extension of the Article 50 process to 10.59pm on 22 May 2019, at which point the UK would leave the EU;
3. Thereafter, in a spirit of co-operation and in order to begin discussions on the Future Relationship, the Government should offer a further set of mutual standstill agreements with the EU and Member States for an agreed period ending no later than 30 December 2021, during which period the UK would pay an agreed sum equivalent to its net EU contributions and satisfy its other public international law obligations; and
4. The Government should unilaterally guarantee the rights of EU citizens resident in the UK.”.
Here’s a good representation of what this amendment means, from the Guardian:
Tabled by a group of Conservative MPs drawn from both leave and remain wings of the party, this amendment calls for a delay to Brexit day from 29 March to 22 May to give time for preparations to leave without a deal. It says the government should then offer a “standstill” agreement with the EU and its member states, lasting up to the end of 2021 at the latest, during which the UK would pay into EU budgets and observe legal obligations while a permanent relationship is negotiated.
And here’s some analysis of the amendment, which has been described as “contradicting” the freshly-passed Spelman amendment.
Jacob Rees Mogg is on Sky News – he says he doesn’t think the Malthouse amendment (f), of which he is a co-signatory, will pass.
He also explains that the government’s motion…
That this House declines to approve leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship on 29 March 2019; and notes that leaving without a deal remains the default in UK and EU law unless this House and the EU ratify an agreement.
… has been altered by the Spelman amendment to this:
That this House rejects the United Kingdom leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship.
So the above is the final motion the House will vote on, which is up next.
Jacob Rees Mogg has just said that the Prime Minister is not his Prime Minister, but the Queen’s First Minister.
When Sky News’ Beth Rigby says “but she is your Prime Minister really…” he denies it with a laugh.
So amendment (f), aka the Malthouse B amendment which was tabled by Brexiteers, has had a thumping defeat:
374 MPs voted against it, and 164 voted for it.
There were laughs in the chamber at that final vote majority of 210.
When the longevity of Theresa May is discussed, the inevitable follow up question is that who will, eh, follow in her footsteps. Here’s a good shortlist.
Important clarifier to all of this ahead of the final vote: This is a legally non-binding vote.
Political correspondents are reporting about abstentions, which could lead to resignations for defying the government whip. Madness.
There it is, quite a result to rule out a no-deal Brexit at any point under any circumstances.
321 voted to rule out a no-deal Brexit, and 278 voted against that sentiment.
A nice comfortable majority of 43.
Theresa May has confirmed the vote tomorrow on whether the UK should request for an extension.
Crucially, May says that only if the House can find “a way in the coming days to secure a deal… we can request a short technical extension”.
If it is not willing to secure a deal in the coming days, then it’s suggesting a longer extension… [and we will need] to hold EU parliament elections in May.
The House isn’t happy with that.
Speaker John Bercow has just told the House of Commons that Theresa May’s motion for tomorrow’s vote on an extension proposes an extension until 30 June.
There are EU elections in May; the new EU parliament begins on the 1 July, meaning that an extension til then would mean the UK wouldn’t need to take part in the European Parliament elections.
Here’s tomorrow’s motion.
Here’s the list of Conservative MPs who abstained in that final, fascinating vote.
As jacob Rees Mogg was saying earlier, if the UK is to pursue an extension, it will need to change the Withdrawal Agreement and its domestic law, as the 29 March date is in those legal documents.
In true Brexit fashion, the House of Commons votes website is down.
If you like a good graph…
Here’s how the final tally looks in lego block form.
You can also see the list of 46 MPs who abstained – which includes Dame Caroline Spelman who proposed the amendment that made up the motion upon which MPs ultimately voted on.
Fun.
Varadkar doesn’t like the suggestion of an extension for the sake of it: what happens next ultimately depends on whether the EU wants to give the UK an extension, and if it does, how much of an extension…
If you think the number of MPs in favour of a no-deal Brexit is extraordinarily high, they’re not the only ones:
This is an absolute GEM. Brexit means…
… contradictions. Loads and loads of contradictions.
Here’s a new May-strategy theory I haven’t heard before: May is failing her way to getting her deal passed.
Work and Pensions Minister Sarah Newton has resigned after she voted to reject a no-deal Brexit in any circumstance.
Meanwhile, this Buzzfeed reporter says that a senior No 10 aide appears to have authorised MPs to break the whip…
There’s absolute fury at the Prime Minister’s decision not to take action against the Ministers who abstained on tonight’s vote (although they wouldn’t have been able to change the outcome if they had voted).
But Ministers who abstained are saying that they were permitted to abstain…
This is a good laugh: ”I was in the army, I wasn’t trained to lose.”
Who exactly is trained to lose..?
The Irish Times has published an editorial, calling for a soft Brexit or a public vote.
“All the evidence suggests that this impasse cannot be unlocked in a few weeks. London should instead seek a postponement until late summer at the earliest, and the EU should accede to that request. May should then use that time to change course.
“Until now, she has fixated on holding the Tories together at all costs by pandering to the fruitier fringes of the party. Now she must put the UK’s national interest first, and that means working to find a cross-party majority for a softer Brexit.
“Whether that means permanent membership of a customs union with the EU or the ‘Norway-plus’ option of remaining in the single market could be established by way of a series of indicative votes.”
Norway isn’t in the customs union and is a part of the Single Market – it’s the opposite arrangement that the UK needs. A customs union of sorts to avoid a hard border, and to leave the Single Market in order to escape the EU’s “free movement of people” rule.
That’s all for this evening, lads.
There’s still rumblings of Ministerial resignations, but they just seem to be remaining as rumblings for the moment. You can keep up with all the other updates here.
This analysis from the BBC journalist John Simpson is a nice reflective tone to end the evening on.
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Came in, made a fortune, didn’t fix any of the problems and leaves with a tidy pension. And the next one won’t do any better and will probably be paid more.
@FliepFlap: The lady is correct with her summary. You need to calm down.
@Ailbhe: would you do his job
@Mary Garry: for €420k per annum?
Of course she would!
@Mary Garry: she is giving her opinion. I happen to think it is very accurate.
@Mary Garry: I wouldn’t, because I’m not qualified, I don’t have the experience and I wouldn’t be capable of resolving the long standing issues. €420k per year wouldn’t change that. People who have previously held the role had more experience and we’re more qualified and still managed to make it worse. The money should be €100k per year and should go to someone not in it for the money, but with the desire and abilities to fix a broken system.
@Mary Garry: If she was qualified and professional, why not. Mr. Reid on the other hand is a journey-man súçkiñg the honey !
@Ailbhe:
So you want someone who spent their whole life building their reputation to take over a role CEO of an Organistion of 117,000 employees and a budget of about €21bn and basically do it for charity…
How about we actually pay the market rate for the job and get somone who is highly qualified…
A CEO to do the job above costs millions, yet we want to do it on the cheap… We have been decades at this,..
https://chiefexecutive.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/CEO_CompReport_ExecSummary_2014.pdf
Running the HSE is a very difficult job with a CEO ( and management team) that would have to be highly experienced and understand the huge challenges the role takes… There is far easier money other places for a person who has those skills…
€420k for this role to the right person with the risk involved is career suicide… I know people will say but it is huge, good CEOs are like soccer players, there are only certain amount that are really good enough. There are loads that will give you a best effort. We are looking for person to head this massive organisation for less than the average English championship soccer player makes..
@Cowboy Paddy: you think €100k a year is CHARITY?! Thanks for the laugh
@Ailbhe: that job is a poison chalice. It needs someone who has fixed the same problems in a health system elsewhere. And to get a person like that you need to pay top dollar.
@Ailbhe: 100k, are joking? Nobody qualified would take the job for 100k, or even 400k. Anyone in private industry in charge of a similar sized organisation would be getting 20 to 50 times his current salary. Maybe far more.
People need to be realistic here. Altruism doesn’t exist at that level.
@Ailbhe: It is at that level, just knowing the type of skills needed for the job (to do it right). It would be like trying to sign Messi for Finn Harps…
Do you understand the role? The level of experience, the investment into there reputation… You think they should work for less than Contract Software Developer in the private business…
Do you expect to pay a few grand for a Ferrari as well… This job entails a 70+ hour week, severely high pressure, huge family support (i.e. your partner might not be able to work full time),…
Sorry but work close to these roles and you know the amount of effort and sacrifice it takes to do the role right and it becomes far clearer…
@Ian McDonald: I think the biggest thing about the job is making the right appointment. Reid never struck me as someone who was commited to change and just seemed to go through the motions to appease people. I think a lot of the appointments are made on the basis that the person wont make to much noise and upset the wrong people.
@Cowboy Paddy: your comment reminds me of the time we paid bankers loads of dosh. They still managed to screw us all up in bankrupting the country and charge us higher interest rates than the European norm. The tracker debacle is another diasster, where people lost their family homes.
Overall, highly paid professionals does not always equal / guarantee a highly efficient health service.
From recent personal experience, the health professionals, doctors/nurses are absolutely brilliant and caring, but most public administration across not just the health service is very, very poor / un-caring in this country. I do wonder why ?
@Cowboy Paddy: We paid the market rate to bank CEOS and they did an excellent job in bankrupting the country.
@Ailbhe: where are you going to find someone with those abilities for €100k per year ? If they have those kinds of abilities it’s guaranteed they are already employed and likely making 3x or more that amount. Easy to say ” someone not in it for the money”, but seriously, someone willing to take a 65% or more pay cut to take on a thankless job where they will be accused of all sorts by the loon squad should another pandemic arise ? Ain’t happening !!
@Ailbhe: neither did he – not even a health care profession .. he had no healthcare experience but was CEO — joke – but the person waiting on poor healthcare is not laughing .
@Paul Crowley:
You know banks are private companies and the Irish tax payer doesn’t control what they get paid…
Are you proposing that the Irish people now control the salaries of people in private companies? So how does this work? Do we dictate what bank clerk or a bar man can make too…
How do we know how much people should make? Who do we think will decide? Anyone we think is making too much we can go in and cut there salary… So we would get a salary list from a Google , Intel, Kerry Group…. and out with the Red Pen, we will say how much they are getting…
@Dublin sunrise:
Old Boss told me once ‘Pay Peanuts…’
What do we expect… One of the toughest management jobs in the world and you want a person to come in at about 1/10th of the market rate..
We were lucky anyone applied and beggers can’t be choosers..
@Dublin sunrise: Why would the CEO need to be a healthcare professional or even have healthcare experience ? They are not performing medical procedures, they are managing the entire organisation. People with relevant experience are managing the clinical side.
@Caoimhghin Whyte:
Irish Banks salaries actually are good bit less than in London… That is one of the reasons, better salary and conditions in UK with less hassle.
I totally agree that high pay doesn’t mean high quality but low pay usually guarantees poor quality.. Why would someone work for less than their market value… What we are saying to the person from the start is we think you are worse than you actually are… Sorry I don’t work like that and I am in the change management business, you just can’t start with that level of expectation…
I also agree with you on the public administration… I have for years advocated a far more IT focused approach… I was actually in the Dail in 2007 and said to two senators at the time, if you went into a bank and asked for €200 and they asked for you bank book and they updated by hand and then they opened a big ledger in front of you and changed your account there. You would close your account right there and then, but we accept that in our health service. We have not moved much from there since then but there are other reasons for that..
@Tommy Roche: it would help if he had an idea Re working in the system before becoming CEO . Whatever qualification if any got him this job — he didn’t improve anything – now the hse is just as bad if not worse .I was patient and I would prefer to die than be admitted to a dublin hospital again.
@Ailbhe: No one qualified to do the job with relevant experience would take it for that salary.
@Ailbhe: For that level of responsibility, the experience, qualifications and expertise to do the job right absolutely no one would do it for 100k. That’s a reality and it’s an unrealistic expectation to think otherwise. We need to pay a proper salary and get someone who is actually good at their job.
@Cowboy Paddy: except that during his whole tenure Reid appeared to be even more lost than a Finn Harps reserve team player would be on a match day at Camp Nou playing Real Madrid.
@Ailbhe: how can anyone fix a political potato.
@Alex Marquis:
Slightly unfair there… He did manage COVID response better than most countries…
But the rest makes my point… We expected Mr Reid to save the HSE… Are we serious… His CV was not of a high flying CEO… The guy was a underground cable jointer in 2005.. Think about that… We expected him to save the CV…
Paul Reid previous job was Fingal Chief Executive, I think…
Honestly this Paul looks like one they got for the money, not targeting of a A lister to come in… That is not Paul’s fault, look at the people that complained what he made…
Imagine if we found the best guy for the job but he cost €4.2m a year?
@Cowboy Paddy: they are called unions
@Ailbhe: it’s not a lot to be fair to do a job like that. I fully believe you underestimate the job, sure bricklayers and plumbers are on 150k a year now
@Cowboy Paddy: paying the ‘market rate’ means nothing in terms of calibre of person. We used to do that in the banks, remember, and look where that got us ? Linking pay and ability is a fools errand.
@John Moylan:
Can please tell me which Bank CEO the Irish taxpayer was paying before the crash.
What you are saying is… Because a private company in Ireland might have not got their money’s worth 15 years ago in a different industry, we should grossly underpay for a role that we really need done well today…
BTW, running a bank is way easier than running a health service..
Resenting some people making money who do a good job will nearly always work against you… We say it in business in Ireland all the time, they are so worried what the other guy is making they fail to look at how much we are making or saving…
@Ailbhe: So basically you are contradicting your first statement . Emmmmm …..
@Barry Sorensen: You can’t make comparisons with the private sector. In the private sector, if the company results are poor, and the share price drops, you wouldn’t be long, shown the door. Assigned to the bin, never to take up a similar role again. If Paul had delivered a 1st class health system with the huge budget given to him, the Irish public would happily pay millions for his salary. Public sector needs performance based pay.
@Ailbhe: think ur a way out there pay peanuts & u get monkeys
@Barry Ryan:
If we were paying like that, I say Paul wouldn’t have got the job…
Look at his experience coming into the job… He was Chief exec of Fingal County Council, budget about 1% of the HSE, far less complex…
@David Corrigan: Calm down? Snowflakes like you and The Journal deemed it necessary to remove my comment? You and all the other w ankers haven’t got a clue what it entails to fix something that’s been broken for decades.
Blame the government, if you want to point fingers. But hey, you all would do a stunning job yourselves I bet.
@Cowboy Paddy: the head of the NHS is paid £260k (about 300k Euro) the NHS has 1.5 million staff. perhaps that’s a better comparison than soccer players.
@Mick Wall: president of the United States $400,000. Mr. Reid salary is too high for someone who isn’t suitably experienced.
@Ailbhe: so do true
@Ailbhe: tbf 100k is peanuts i know cars sales men making that
Get out before all the attention shifts from Covid to the children’s hospital.
@⚡ Seánie ⚡: get out before you are asked to leave!!
This has to be a good thing, hes been a disaster, I wonder is he jumping before hes pushed.
@Patricia O’Brien: he,s certainly running away
@Patricia O’Brien: I’d imagine the people working around the clock would appreciate paid time to spend with their families. I don’t know where he’s coming from with the heavy heart. They can’t be that bad.
@Patricia O’Brien: as useless_as a chocolate teapot… he should_return his pot o gold to Darby O’Gill…!!
Waiting for all the keyboard warriors to knock Paul Reid. Thankless job and I think we did pretty well through the pandemic.
@Kevin Conway: really ? Have u seen Limerick Hospital lately?
@Kevin Conway: we have an overwhelmingly poor health service and he’s paid 420,000 a year. I think anyone who’s had a loved on sitting on a trolley for 8 hours or can’t get an appointment with a consultant is well within their rights to criticise
@Kevin Conway: He’s a great man for sure,will be sadly missed.
@Gary Carr: yes I have… leading onwards to a death of my mother. It’s not funny but our system is a lot better that most other countries. Its not perfect. I wouldn’t take on his job for twice the money he was on.
@Kevin Conway: You don’t get thanks for taking huge wages and being incompetent, this is the nearest to an Irish sacking we get. Be grateful for it. Watt must go also.
@Kevin Conway: regardless, you referring to anyone who rightly criticises someone who’s on 420k a year of taxpayer money as “keyboard warriors” is absolute nonsense.
@Kevin Conway: Are you for real? Our system isn’t better than a lot of third world countries. By all key indicators we fall well short. This has been highlighted by ECDC and others putting us at the bottom of most lists in EU.
@Kevin Conway: well he did well, earning in excess of €850k.
@Toon Army:
You mean 13th… That has been the general area for a while…
https://www.joe.ie/fitness-health/ireland-placed-pretty-high-new-global-healthcare-system-ranking-588830
I don’t think we are that high but we are a lot better than some make out…
@Gary Carr: I spent 15 hours on a trolley on 2 different occasions in the Lourdes hospital in Drogheda, and I’m dying with terminal cancer, says it all really!!
@Kevin Conway: I’m waiting for all the Stockholm Syndrome victims to talk him up on how amazing he is..
@Kevin Conway: praise for the pandemic is great but is that what he is getting well paid to do ? That’s his job.
So did he leave or was he pushed? Is there a clue in weekend news about telling the minister that Navan hospital A&E is closing no matter what he said?!!
Sidebar – if you want to see a parallel story to the closure look back at what happened to Roscommon A&E.
@Niall Sheridan: Health is a poison chalice. The system is unworkable and unfixable. Not Reid’s fault. He’s a working class boy from Finglas who worked his way to the top. Good luck to him.
He was paid a fortune did ok in covid by spending a fortune, but has he actually improved the HSE, I think not. Low staffing levels to much middle management that dont contribute anything, infrastructure of hospitals a disaster, child care services a disgrace. Ques for procedures growing. Emergency departments a joke. Our trained Doctors emigrating due to being overworked. The list goes on and on. Nothing has got any better.
@The Observer: have to ask, you say “did ok in covid”. Can you please genuinely asking, list the things he did ok on with covid??
When I think about it more actually no I can’t:)
@The Observer: HA!!
@The Observer: the junior doctors aren’t emigrating because of overwork. they are emigrating because of poor postgraduate training. and training structures.
@Sarah Lou: funny then we done very well in covid compered to a lot of countries & thats not me saying that its a fact so go get your info before making coments
@Sheila McNulty: Are you sure its me who doesnt have my facts!! Why is tony gone and Mr Reid leaving too…. cos we did so well!! We had some of the harshest lockdowns in the world. We failed our elderly and our medically vulnerable. The finance staff working from home were given the vaccine before those who were literally dying from covid. The elderly were discharged with covid from acute hospitals causing mass outbreaks and deaths. We have yet in 2022 over 2 years since the first case, built a new hospital. They havent even broken the covid v non covid patients correctly in my local hospital. What fact is it that I have missed Sheila? Oh sorry you are right, I have not even brought in the state of the current health service, the people on lists upon lists to see consultants. The fact people are dying of their condition while on a waiting list for review for several years. I mean I am waiting to hear the facts ive missed but Mr Reid is the boss of ALL of that above there, go on hit me with them…
I am sure there will be a pile on with people talking about his salary and perks but he led an historically dysfunctional organisation through a pandemic. I hope he enjoys retirement.
@Phil O’ Meara: The article doesn’t say how old he is?
@Phil O’ Meara: He isn’t retiring.
@Una Dunphy: No future car÷r plans at present. Read he is burnt out.
Remind me again, what qualifications/ experience did Reid have for the HSE job? Nice salary and perks though!
@Seamus Maye: He has corporate experience. He doesn’t need to be a medic.
@Seamus Maye: he did well for a working class lad from Finglas who, as you, say left school at 16 with no qualifications. Maybe its time for a management guru with an MBA!
@Ciaran O’Mara: highly educated does not necessarily mean better qualified. I know plenty of PHd educated people who lack common sense. What’s needed is transformational leadership. Not cuts to services. A leader who is good at working with others and inspires people to embrace change. Our health service is a weird hybrid between corporatised healthcare and a public system. The goal should be national universal healthcare. I wouldn’t mind increasing my wages and neither would anyone else who comments on here. People begrudging someone success is so Irish.
I doubt he is quitting
God bless The Journal Comments section and all who sail in her
The overall response to the pandemic from the health service was fantastic, thousands of lives were saved and in fairness to Reid, he stood up to the plate. But the HSE is a broken model. An enormous budget, too many admin and middle management staff, a union paralysed organisation. The CEO job and Minister for Health portfolio are both poisoned chalices. There’s no winning the war without root and branch reform and that isn’t going to happen with unions calling the shots. Unions don’t do change.
@GrumpyAulFella:
I think you re right there… This job is close to impossible in the way it is set up… It is vast and presented with numerous challenges…
Look at the Children’s hospital alone… Paul Reid is in charge of a €21 billion a year organisation… The Hospital will cost 1/10th of an annual budget spread over about 10 years.. That is 1% a year, yet it has to dominate his time in media and other issues…
Without being closer it is hard to tell where the HSE is having its problems but it definitely has Information Technology issues, which makes trying to see other issues very hard..
@GrumpyAulFella: No the response to the pandemic was not fantastic and the long term effects of neglecting every other illness to deal with covid is yet to be discovered and dealt with. Trumped up figures about hospitalisations and deaths (and this has been proven) to cover over HSE shortfalls and endemic overcrowding is hardly fantastic handling. Yes the frontline staff were amazing as they always were and are but HSE upper management are an unqualified unmitigated disaster ably assisted by an inept minister and civil service
@Cowboy Paddy: Thinking that cost of children’s hospital is somehow ok because it just 1/10th of the annual budget is nonsense.
By the time it’s done, it will be the most expensive hospital ever built in the world and it’s in a bad location. There’s no excuses for what’s happening with that build.
@Michael McGrath: just words though. The stats don’t lie. In relation to most countries our fatality rate was very small, our vaccination programme was one of the swiftest and most efficient in the world. And no, other illnesses weren’t ignored, obviously reprioritisation was required during a health emergency but overall our health service, of which he is head, did an excellent job. Credit where it’s due. That’s not to say that the health service isn’t screwed up in most other areas.
@JedBartlett: in fairness how much of that is down to Reid? That one is on DPER, the OGP and the other civil servants involved in state procurement and supplier contract negotiating process.
@GrumpyAulFella: No there not just words and stats can be made look any way the writer wants them to look. And I never said ignored i said neglected two totally different meanings and the waiting lists and times for treatments and procedures in hospitals even for private patients would prove what I have said is completely accurate.
@Michael McGrath: did you expect that throwing all of the resources that our health service has, as every other country in the world did, to provide critical emergency services to Covid sufferers and the dying as well as servicing the biggest vaccination programme that the state has undertaken, would have a positive effect on queues for other services? This is the inevitable fallout from a once in a generation global health emergency. There isn’t a country in the world that isn’t in the same position re mopping up afterwards now that full services have resumed.
@GrumpyAulFella: 100%. The Unions have the HSE by the short and curlies. He can’t hire and fire as he could in a corporate environment so he was on the road to nowhere unfortunately
@JedBartlett:
Look at it in comparison to his total job. He didn’t pick the site, it was pretty much mandated to him…
This is the thing… Reid should have been running a health service, not in the building trade… This job should have been given to another government dept like Office of Public Works and HSE should have been just a client.. This is just one of those things that are wrong…
Reid is not building the hospital… Politicians had pretty much decided where it was going to be…
There is a difference between Operational management and these types of projects…
A Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael appointment will be made now. The merry go round continues.
How much is the pension?
@Daniel Carry: about 50k added to his pension pot every year
A nice golden handshake on the way
He had not even one days experience of working in healthcare- but was given the job
of CEO – joke – but the
person waiting on our poor / messed up / scary /healthcare is not
laughing. He had the right connections to get the nice job -in this no so fair isle of ours !
@Dublin sunrise: the same as DAA bringing in a failed supermarket Boss to run an airport
I wonder will he get a guard of honour from Dublin to Carrick on Shannon in his chauffeured BMW this time. We are not worthy of this great servant of the people………
So what is coming downing the line that would prompt this decision? Is the HSE a sinking ship or has someone’s past caught up with them?
@Eddie O’Neill: could be fed up trying to fix the impossible, could have been given a better paid opportunity elsewhere, could just want a better work life balance. Could be sick of the public life. Endless reasons.
This should be fun!
Bye Paul thanks for nothing and only there for paycheck.. You’ve managed to make some crazy decisions and closing Navan A&E is one of the worst things you can do. The population in Meath is crazy and now no A&E and your solution is head to Drogheda or any other already over stretched A&E that’s close by.. It’s a Disgrace just like the HSE but make sure you get over paid and get a nice fat pension too..dont let the door hit you on the way out
Polite tributes – nonetheless accompanied to the door marked EXIT.
How does one apply for this role?
@Madra: Applications are futile, position already filled.
He got paid a fortune
H.S.E. spent a fortune
All we got was misfortune
Was he pushed?
Heading for the soon to be vacant CEO role at Dublin Airport Authority.
@David Hanly: Ah stop, what happens when the queues for beds and flights meet?
The HSE would appear to have more snake heads than Medusa. It is time to take away the Pedestals and rebuild the whole organisation, it is peppered with non-performing Managers and bullies.
If the same people who did the hiring the last time do the hiring the next time, the HSE will be in the same boat. The “hirers” should be replaced first.
Get back to work the lot of ye and stop moaning!
Was the HSE not supposed to be dissolved by James Reilly when he was minister?
He has no immediate career plan. Sure he doesn’t – why should he. Enough money made. And the HSE is entering a new era…. Sure. From bad to worse!
Well he has had enough. No he is off. We are left with a health service that is not fit for purpose. What is the measurable difference that can be made to evaluate Mr. Reid’s performance? What has changed? Is the health service better or worse? Did we get value for money? How much money has been spent during Mr. Reid’s period in office. What will it cost to fund the decisions that were taken? Where state is the health service in? Is there an realistic plan to make the health service viable? Do we need to scrap the HSE and return to the regional Health Boards? Does anybody know what they are doing? Do the decision makers have the skillset to run a health system? I dont think so.
He was found out.!!! Was completely out of his depth and so under qualified and over paid but he’s off with a big pay off and no doubt a gold plated pension and to squirm his way into another cushy gig.
Ireland. Who could bother with it
All those lambasting him; 3 years is nothing in a corporate environment to turn things around unless you can be the new broom and sweep out all the detrius. Obviously he cant get rid of legacy staff plus the Unions have the health service tied up. He took over this job when the country faced a pandemic. He is worn out with everything I’d say.
Who would work for the public service and be treated so begrudgingly by the many keyboard warriors who log on to the Journal every day to pick out which target they are going to p•ss on?
He can well afford it now….
How much did he get? He was just waiting for the right offer and is nothin, knows nothing but will get far!
Why is he allowed to break a 5 year contract?
Another one jumping ship.. Is there anyone left on board..!?
Like rats from a sinking ship
How much did he get? He was just waiting for the right offer and is nothing, knows nothing but will get far!
In fairness he has sorted out the HSE so now time for him to take a long well deserved break.
@Aidan Bergin: Give an example of what he has sorted in the HSE, just one. Problems with Recruitment, A&E overcrowding, Building Programme, Staff Salaries, CAMS, Bullying and other critical problems in the HSE remain while Paul Reid walks. Why the sudden decision to go, with some work done and huge amount outstanding ? ?
The comedy continues. He improved fu(k all. Lets he honest.
Who cares
More deadwood getting paid for life
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