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Dáil votes for Ireland to join Pesco EU military defence pact

The motion was passed by 75 votes to 42 and was supported by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.

THE DÁIL HAS voted to approve Ireland’s participation in Pesco – the EU’s permanent structured cooperation arrangement.

The motion was passed by 75 votes to 42. Both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael backed the motion.

TDs from numerous political parties recently raised concerns about the government trying to “ram” through a vote on Ireland joining the defence pact.

The plan raised concerns here that it could undermine Ireland’s policy of neutrality.

Some argue Pesco is the first step towards an EU army, with its proposals including inclusion in the European command centre, a network of logistic hubs across Europe and a creation of a European crisis response centre, as well as the joint training of military officers.

A heated debated on the issue kicked off earlier this week with news the government had planned a vote on the issue this week.

The government argued it must sign-up to the deal before an EU Council meeting of defence ministers taking place on 11 December.

However, parties such as Labour argued that this was not necessary and asked for the vote to be pushed back to 2018 so as to allow sufficient time to have a public debate on the issue and for the Oireachtas Defence Committee to have the opportunity to hear submissions from independent experts.

Wexford TD Mick Wallace said he was astonished at the video Europe is using to promote Pesco and was even more shocked that a small country like Ireland would consider signing up to it.

European External Action Service (EEAS) / YouTube

Meanwhile Solidarity-PBP member Richard Boyd Barrett accused the government of pulling a “fast one” with the vote today.

He said his party are considering taking a constitutional challenge against the government plan.

He said the government’s response to his criticisms were “the most cynical rubbish” he had ever heard. The Dun Laoghaire TD said this was exactly the move the Irish people were afraid of when they voted down the Lisbon Treaty the first time around.

He pointed to the European Commission’s own fact sheet on Pesco which states the difference between Pesco and other forms of cooperation is the “binding nature” of the commitments undertaken by participating member states.

The Taoiseach Leo Varadkar defended the government’s position stating that he wants Ireland to be involved in Pesco.

He said it is time that Europe stops relying on the US for its defence.

My view is that a Europe that is worth building is a Europe that is worth defending. For a very long time, all of Europe has relied on the United States to provide for its defence. There are real threats to European security and, over time, rather than relying on the United States to defend Europe and pay for European defence, Europe should provide and pay for its own defence and not be dependent on the United States in the way it has been since 1945.
That is what Pesco and European security and defence co-operation are all about. It is Europe starting to take responsibility for and control over its own defence, not relying on the United States in the way it has done until now.

Many TDs said that in years to come, today’s vote will be seen as Ireland’s first step towards the country’s role in a European defence strategy.

‘We’re being asked to sell out our neutrality’: Government accused of trying to rush EU defence deal vote>

Read: Taoiseach says Ireland will not be joining a European army>

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194 Comments
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    Mute Simon O'Connor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:24 PM

    Surely we should have had a say in this – a complete circus.

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    Mute Franklin Roosevelt
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:27 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: people voted for a coalition of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil.

    What else did they expect?

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    Mute Mary Loony Mc Donald
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:27 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: we elect TDs to govern and then complain when they do.. and also complain when they use committees and consultants…simple procedure here, Vote held, motion passed , next…

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    Mute Michael Donnelly
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:29 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: You already do, anyone who voted on the matter today was democratically elected by their constitutes.

    50
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    Mute Bob McTanned
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:30 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: We did, it was the Lisbon Treaty, then stupidly, we changed our minds like good little sheep

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    Mute Simon O'Connor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:31 PM

    @Mary Loony Mc Donald: This is a very complex issue and directly impacts our own national security and sovereignty. It will get to the point where our own defence operations may require buy off from external powers

    46
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    Mute Simon O'Connor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:32 PM

    @Bob McTanned: Absolutely, and that was the turning point for me. UK are right to get out, ride the storm but at least they will be in control of their destiny.

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    Mute Sshh I'm Undercover
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:45 PM
    39
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    Mute Simon O'Connor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:49 PM

    @Sshh I’m Undercover: Knew this was on the cards for many years now but FFS!

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    Mute Mitch Peterson
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:56 PM

    @Bob McTanned: Question for you Bob. Have you read the two versions of the Lisbon treaty? The original, and the version changed for us?

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    Mute Sshh I'm Undercover
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:00 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: It was the plan all along. We’re just in the final stages now.

    35
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    Mute Simon O'Connor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:05 PM

    @Sshh I’m Undercover: Yet they want nothing to do with the current problem on our border – convenient.

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    Mute Joe Travers
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:10 PM

    @Sshh I’m Undercover: nice to know someone has our back, as we are ill equipped to defend ourselves.

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    Mute Niall Quinlan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:16 PM

    @Mary Loony Mc Donald: Do you agree with war? Are you not worried that our children and grandchildren could one day be conscripted to fight a rich man’s war if this is fully implemented?

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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:27 PM

    @Sshh I’m Undercover: we signed up to join the EEC not the bloody EU superpower

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    Mute Andy K
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:34 PM

    @Niall Quinlan: But that is not what this pact is about.

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    Mute Sshh I'm Undercover
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:39 PM

    @Joe Travers: But who will save us from the EU…. The coastguard?

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    Mute Shawn O'Ceallaghan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:44 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: of course tge people have a say. You voted for someone to represent you.

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    Mute Mondo
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:47 PM

    @Joe Travers: defend ourselves from???

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    Mute Fran Lonergan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:56 PM

    @Mary Loony Mc Donald:

    But does this not go beyond normal day to day political discourse and government?

    It requires an election where it is contained in the manifestos of those in favour to put before the electorate.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:58 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: Details on the change in sovereignty today please?

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    Mute Mary Mc Carthy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:59 PM

    @Franklin Roosevelt: Surely this is a matter which would have warranted a Referendum?

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    Mute Simon O'Connor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:04 PM

    @Danny Rafferty: Details on the fiscal and legal integration when we signed up to an economical block in 1973 please? Or even when we signed the multiple treaties?

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    Mute Eamonn Atyea
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:44 PM

    @Franklin Roosevelt: Well said you are dead right .. we reep what we so

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    Mute Mick Potts
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:58 PM

    @Mary Loony Mc Donald: if by any chance in the future there is a conflict will the FF/FG TDs sons be the first up for cannon fodder? I think not. Remember WE THE PEOPLE are the employers of the shower of wasters in Leinster House and We should have a say in giving up our Neutrality by Refferendum.

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    Mute Patrick J. O'Rourke
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    Dec 7th 2017, 8:35 PM

    @Mary Mc Carthy: Try article 42 of the Lisbon Treaty. That’s the one they bullied us into voting again. It’s now going to be one superstate with one army and one Chancellor against all the rest. I think that one of the original models of the structure was the crown, the army and the East India company and the latest being the US in the middle east. Head of state promotes, guards and enforces all commercial interests using the army to die for them. We signed up for it when we voted again. It won’t be long before Irish blood is splattered all over the fields of Europe again.

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    Mute Stephen murphy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 9:36 PM

    @Gus Sheridan: When you join the hen house, you must fight the fox’s too!

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    Mute Chris Healy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 10:51 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: why are you surprised? This is how the EU has passed every controversial change. First try the public via referendum if you have to, then force their government to sneak it through. Heck, forcing a govt to do their bidding to avoid a negative referendum seems to be a trick they copied from Germany’s annexation of Austria

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    Mute Chris Healy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 10:55 PM

    @Joe Travers: defend from what? Mark my words, the only nation who’ll ever be threatened or invaded by Brussels private army will be a misbehaving EU state. No more Syriza-like or Brexit-like surprises.

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    Mute Chris Healy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 11:07 PM

    @Gus Sheridan: what superpower? 16% of the EUs GDP is on its way out at the moment. And unless they show a bit of common sense and make a deal with Britain so Germany can keep selling them Audis and washing machines, say good bye to Germany’s GDP. Likewise, as the only EU state to invest the minimum 2% GDP required by NATO, spending 10 billion more than it’s next big spender France, the UK also takes away the lions share of the EUs military strength.

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    Mute Chris Healy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 11:12 PM

    @Stephen murphy: actually the hens do nothing to stop the foxes, that’s the farmers job. And at the moment, so of the mainland hens are telling the American farmer to go away

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Dec 8th 2017, 12:49 AM

    @Simon O’Connor: OK so you aren’t actually identifying anything specific just complaining. Once we know…

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    Mute Bobby tolster
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    Dec 8th 2017, 12:57 AM

    @Mary Loony Mc Donald: are you insane they’ll be shipping Irish men and women off to the Middle East and that opens the gates to mass rapes and suicide bombers in Ireland, in muslims eyes we’ll be as bad as the French German and English and look at what’s happened to them.
    Or worse again we’ll be dragged into a world war look at the states recognizing Israels capitol being Jerusalem or mass Islamic and African migration or the building of an EU army led by Germany and France and England pulling out of the EU shits gonna get real bad real fast and we should let them get on with it by themselves. Our politicians are traitors to this country along with anyone who supports them.

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    Mute Matthew O'Kane
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    Dec 8th 2017, 9:31 AM

    @Simon O’Connor: are just right, they just want to put that 700 billion US military spend a year on the EU zone and if its spent on bombs and war it wont be spent on school emergency services. Just look at the UK nuclear bombs but they are privatising everything, things falling apart and there are terror attacks on their home soil USA is the same worst setup for profit and war. Its all a scam no eu army and no 700billion euro spend on war its all they are shoe horning us into. Dont let fear rob your taxs

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    Mute Desmund
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    Dec 9th 2017, 4:22 PM

    @Mary Loony Mc Donald: We also have a constitution.

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    Mute Shakka1244
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:27 PM

    I thought Ireland were mean to to be a neutral country – a cornerstone of our international relations.

    Now gone at the stroke of a pen courtesy of the one party that is FF/FG.

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:32 PM

    @Shakka1244: Finland, Austria and Sweden are Neutral and they have also joined so I don’t see your problem.

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:37 PM

    @Shakka1244: surely this is a good thing. We cannot rely on the US anymore and should have some kind of joined up protection of the EU especially with rogue states like North Korea becoming nuclear.

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    Mute Cathal S Byrne
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:40 PM

    @Deborah Behan: we don’t have to rely on anyone. We are not being attacked and nobody is looking to attack us. We should not be part of this.

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    Mute David Cullen
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:45 PM

    @Sandra O’Fucáif: ah. it all ok so. i hope anyone thinking we are with the rest of Europe on future military action. know not to target us because we have a special opt out clause

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:52 PM

    @Cathal S Byrne: As I said in a previous thread Norway, Finland, Poland, Holland, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia the Baltic States and Greece all said the same thing in 1938. In the 70′s Cyprus had the same thought. In the past 20 years Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine thought so too!!! Didn’t fair to well for them now did it?

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    Mute Thought for Food
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:04 PM

    @Cathal S Byrne:

    History has taught us that we should be prepared at any moment for the threat of invasion.

    It only takes a matter of years for the status quo to destabilise while military build-ups can take decades for smaller nations like Ireland. Small countries across Europe fell in the 1930′s because they failed to prepare in the 1920′s.

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    Mute Y U no spell good?
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:13 PM

    @Shakka1244: Ireland is not a neutral country. We are non aligned and take a neutral stance on many issues but we are not and never have been a neutral country

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    Mute Andy K
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:44 PM

    @Cathal S Byrne: Poland did not expect to be attacked. Ukraine did not expect to be attacked. Most countries do not expect to be attacked. Thats the main advantage you can get in a war, the element of surprise.

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    Mute Cathal S Byrne
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:44 PM

    @Thought for Food: history has taught us that when nations build arms…war happens

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 8:05 PM

    @Cathal S Byrne: So if one side builds arms and the other doesn’t then unopposed invasions happen. Let’s say nobody was in a position to oppose ISIS. Would you have converted to their brand of Islam? Or do you think pacifism stopped Soviet Tanks from rolling on the rest of Europe in the 50′s? In the 30′s did Chinese neutrality stop the Imperial Japanese Army? In 1938 Finland was Neutral did that prevent the Soviet invasion? In 2014 Ukraine was not part of any military pact did that stop Russia invading and annexing Ukranian territory? Did Kuwait attack Iraq? Did Cyprus attack Turkey? What did Georgia do to Russia? What did Tibet do to China?

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    Mute Michael Geraghty
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    Dec 7th 2017, 10:31 PM

    @Mick Jordan: ha ha well done mick, carnal you’ve been schooled. Case closed

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    Mute Chris Healy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 11:17 PM

    @Deborah Behan: why can’t we rely on the USA and if not, what makes you think that the EU could protect us? The EU had one major military power and it’s in the process of leaving

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    Mute Chris Healy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 11:34 PM

    @Thought for Food: no, they fell because their powerful allies (France and Britain) who promised to protect them, abandoned them to have peace at any cost. And in the case of Poland, greed, as by supporting the breaking up of Czechoslovakia by the Germans to get a piece of Silesia, they sealed their own fate.

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    Mute Chris Healy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 11:37 PM

    @Cathal S Byrne: no, the opposite actually. Since at least the days of the Romans, “Si vis pacem, para bellum”, or “if you want peace, prepare for war” has been sadly proven true time and time again.

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    Mute Chris Healy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 11:48 PM

    @Mick Jordan: successful neutral countries kept their neutrality by having a strong defense. I love that story of the German kaiser asking a Swiss man what his nation’s 1/4 million militiamen would do if 1/2 million German soldiers invaded his country. And, as Switzerland has every man armed and a trained marksmen, he replied that they would just “shoot twice and go home”.

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    Mute Rory Toner
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:32 PM

    Terrorism is the main threat to Europe. Who was the person that opened the floodgates and let them all in. Who is the person that wants this extremely covert PESCO passed without anyone barely knowing a thing about it. So she has now got military control over the Entire EU. Thanks Leo.

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    Mute jon-boy55
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:45 PM

    @Rory Toner: the main threat to europe is zero democracy, rule by bankers, return of fascism under control of the victors of the 2nd world war: germany, and state sponsored terrorism which eu citizens tax now goes towards funding

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    Mute Y U no spell good?
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:15 PM
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    Mute Father Hody Commody
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:04 PM

    @Rory Toner: Exactly what a certain German dictator had as a goal. Next up it’ll be a new currency for Germany and possibly France.

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    Mute Ibhar Mac Suibhne
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    Dec 8th 2017, 12:31 AM

    @Rory Toner: Terrorism is at its lowest level in Europe since 1979. You bought all the right wing media hype……poor you.

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    Mute Incognito
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:29 PM

    Disgusted at the sly underhanded way this was crowbarred through

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    Mute jon-boy55
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:42 PM

    @Incognito: as opposed to how the professional liars in the dail normally go about things?

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    Mute Trevor Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:27 PM

    A dictatorship, plain and simple.
    156 morons decide the faith of the nation.
    Will job bridge or whatever the scheme is to get the youth back in employment now be conscription?
    Europe has failed us many times in the past decade but this is an all time low.

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    Mute Mary Loony Mc Donald
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:28 PM

    @Trevor Hayden: check your dictionary for a definition of dictatorship.

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    Mute Trevor Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:33 PM

    @Mary Loony Mc Donald: Where a ruling body enslaves a nation without vote.
    Would that describe it?

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    Mute Michael Geraghty
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:34 PM

    @Trevor Hayden: we are opting in for peace keeping and anti terrorist training and you are having a hissy fit.

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:37 PM

    @Trevor Hayden: Maybe you can point out where in this agreement an EU Army is mentioned or conscription for that matter. You sound like the Brexiteers in the UK when they were screeching about how Turkey was poised to join the EU and an how EU Army was going to replace NATO. Lies and false propaganda.

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    Mute Misanthrope
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:38 PM

    @Mary Loony Mc Donald: true.. plutocracy is a better description

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    Mute Trevor Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:40 PM

    @Michael Geraghty: We’ve been on peace keeping missions for decades throughout the world, what more training could we possibly need?

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    Mute Trevor Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:42 PM

    @Mick Jordan: Wait and see mick, I hope you are right.

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:56 PM

    @Trevor Hayden: I am still waiting for the EU to collapse as was prophesied for the past 20 years. And what about the imminent arrival of Turkey in the EU or the crash of the Euro. Still waiting for that to happen too.

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:58 PM

    @Trevor Hayden: So you agree that what you are doing is scaremongering about us joining this pact.

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    Mute Trevor Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:05 PM

    @Mick Jordan: Not at all mick, I am giving scenarios that could happen, thinking outside the box.
    If more people did it we may not have been in the s€€t we are in now.
    All we have to do is look at how our government and the EU have treated us in the past.
    Burn bondholders /Dont burn bondholders, water charges /no water charges.
    All blatant lies to deceive the electorate.

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:14 PM

    @Trevor Hayden: So you are contemplating what may or may not happen somwhere off in the future. Not what is happening right now or is actually in the planning stages to happen. Do you use a crystal ball or tarot cards?

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    Mute Mary Loony Mc Donald
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:16 PM

    @Trevor Hayden: no..

    dictatorship..NOUNmass noun…Government by a dictator.

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    Mute Trevor Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:27 PM

    @Mick Jordan: How many people predicted the crash in 08 mick, only to be told they were nuts?
    With Bertie and Eddie hobbs telling everyone to buy holiday homes, I think a little scepticism at times is helpful.

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:36 PM

    @Trevor Hayden: Did you know? Was your crystal ball working then too?

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    Mute Trevor Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:40 PM

    @Mick Jordan: I think I’ve explained my view mick (without the aid of tarot cards or a crystal ball) you obviously have complete faith in the current government, i dont.

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:51 PM

    @Trevor Hayden: Ahh, the sky may just fall, you had better hide under your bed.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:01 PM

    @Trevor Hayden: That’s not the definition of a dictatorship Trevor, plain and simple.

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    Mute Chris Healy
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    Dec 8th 2017, 12:01 AM

    @Mick Jordan: Yanis Varoufakis, in his book “and the weak suffer what they must” gives a pretty compelling argument as to why the euro will fail

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    Mute Valthebear
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:33 PM

    … And some people here laugh at the Brits because of brexit…

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    Mute Daniel Donovan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:34 PM

    This is a complete joke. I don’t know how any Irish man or woman can support this considering we are a neutral nation joining a militarised super-state.

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    Mute Sshh I'm Undercover
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:47 PM
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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:24 PM

    @Daniel Donovan: As I have asked others to point out where is this Super State you speak of? Where is this Super Army you refer too? Can you point it out please?

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    Mute Daniel Donovan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:55 PM

    @Sshh I’m Undercover: EU leaders have long stated their desire for a joint EU military. “It is just the latest step in the march towards an all-out EU army, with a military headquarters already approved and proposals to purchase military equipment being considered.” https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/878918/eu-army-european-defence-union-pact-brussels-uk-brexit/amp

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Dec 7th 2017, 9:00 PM

    @Daniel Donovan: That’s grand , the EU will purchase all this new weaponry for us. That’s relief , we don’t have any money to house our homeless or fix our very ill health system,let alone buy a heap of military hardware that we don’t need.

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    Mute Rand Al Thor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 10:49 PM

    @Daniel Donovan: A Wehrmacht Irland has a ring to it,they might even make our guys fight without ear protectors.

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    Mute Paul Coughlan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:37 PM

    This should have been given to the people to decide. After all our neutrality is very important to us

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:04 PM

    @Paul Coughlan: You have constitutional and legal basis for making this sweeping statement I assume?

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    Mute Simon O'Connor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:26 PM

    The next step will be EU standard military hardware which will benefit some of the monopolies already in existence and will stranglehold the smaller firms.

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    Mute Simon O'Connor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:35 PM

    @Sandra O’Fucáif: On what basis? Just like we have full control over our fisheries – allowing Spanish super trawlers to hoover up all the fish in our Exclusive Economic Zone?

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    Mute Simon O'Connor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:39 PM

    @Sandra O’Fucáif: I went off topic with that reply. If you watch their promotional video they speak about so many variations in military equipment within the individual militaries. To them, standardising the equipment cuts out a huge amount of procurement costs, but also ensures common hardware working procedures. Yeah this is a great idea within one nation’s military, but this is not a good idea across the continent.
    Can you imagine if Greece left the EU and became cosy with the likes of Russia, or worse still if Turkey were granted membership?

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:46 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: Every Western military already use standard sized ammo. So it makes zero difference to what weapon they use. As for Armoured vehicles (Tanks etc) again the ammo they use is already standard the differences are in the type of engine and Armour they use. Ships are already have standard hull design and are equipped to each navies needs. And aircraft too also use standard type missiles and bombs. Apart from stealth technology and electronics as per each countries requirements there is very little difference between Western military aircraft.

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    Mute Simon O'Connor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:00 PM

    @Mick Jordan: That’s not true. There are standard Concept of Operations for certain activities within NATO, and some standardised ammo but that’s essentially it. There is no commonality whatsoever with hull design – many designs are standard during the concept design phase but are tailored during the detailed design phase. Look at the French, Italian and Spanish frigates which have successfully been exported to numerous navies now – they are all entirely different in equipment specification, layout and operation. Looking at the UK as an example, the acoustic signature on their frigates are a strategic asset. Why do you think the Russians consistently sail around in subs

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:11 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: Some standardised ammo? What standard issue Western Rifle systems don’t use Standard NATO rounds? What Tank gun Barrels don’t use Standard NATO tank rounds? What Western aircraft can’t use a selection of standard NATO missile systems? As I stated each ships hull is standard design but out fitted to each countries individual needs. Where some countries require more of an anti submarine role others may want an anti Aircraft/missile role but all can be re-fitted to those requirements.

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    Mute Simon O'Connor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:25 PM

    @Mick Jordan: Hang on a second. Just take a look at the Typhoon as an example or even the F35 fighter – all of the end users have a range of different armament and systems. All of this equipment is designed to comply with a certain specification, but a lot of these platforms use different individual equipment manufactured by different companies. The exact same can be said with naval platforms. And again, the hull design is not standard at all. Do you think the designs from Navantia, Fincantieri, BAES or DCNS for export into Germany / Canada / Australia / New Zealand will carry over much commonality? They might look the same from a capability perspective but they are nothing like their parent design – not dimensionally or armament. And each export variant is vastly different from the other.
    I don’t want to go off in a tangent here, but according to the propaganda video, the whole point is a uniformed military.

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:26 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: All fit standard mounts on the aircraft. Again with the Ships they are customised to a countries individual needs. But all use standard sized ammo and missiles. It all stems from what is known as NATO Standard. And for a Uniform Military every European Military units can integrate along side each other without any problem. Even the Irish Army train regularly along side their European colleagues. What you have attempted to do is imply problems where there are none.

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    Mute Simon O'Connor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:39 PM

    @Mick Jordan: There’s a lot more to it than missiles though Mick. The primary purpose of the platforms are to deploy weapons, but that’s actually a very small piece of the puzzle. There’s everything else from the radar systems, sensor systems, propulsion, platform management systems, combat systems…the list goes on. Going by the video which is in this article, there is a call to standardise equipment, cut out NRE and have a uniformed military.

    All I’m saying this could lead to a situation where a designer like Navantia or BAE could be given huge advantages over smaller designers. The same logic applies at equipment level and construction level.

    We’ll have to agree to disagree – I’m out. Have a good one

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 8:07 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: And as said previously each is customised to the needs of each vessel.

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    Mute Rand Al Thor
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    Dec 7th 2017, 10:53 PM

    @Simon O’Connor: Yep the French have special ammo that turns to jelly if it goes within 100 meters of a German.

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    Mute Isthatright
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:29 PM

    Sail is full of Irish puppets. Will agree to anything to be seen as best in class.
    The people should have a say on this, and Government no longer represents the people.

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    Mute Isthatright
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:30 PM

    Dail

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    Mute John Mc Donagh
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:38 PM

    @Isthatright: NO, NO not at all, He said “sail”

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    Mute Charles Williams
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:34 PM

    The perfect Irish solution to an Irish problem, remain neutral while joining a military alliance and hosting one of the US biggest military transits airports in the world. Like our two faced previous approaches to the bank bailout, the trolley crisis, the homeless crisis, the Apple tax scams you couldn’t make it up if you tried. We may not be able to grow bananas, but that doesn’t stop up from being one of the biggest banana Republics in the world.

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    Mute niall
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:27 PM

    FFS! This is 100% something the people should have a say on. Absolutely ridiculous

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    Mute Misanthrope
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:38 PM

    @niall: we might give the wrong answer

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:03 PM

    @niall: Why? Did you not vote in the last general election for someone to represent you in the Dail? Do feel the need for a referendum on every single piece of legislation passed?

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    Mute niall
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:13 PM

    @Mick Jordan: as it may effect my Children and their children, resulting in death, then yes, i do feel the need for a referendum on such a thing

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:20 PM

    @niall: And as you put it “it may affect my Children”, an Asteroid strike “may” also affect your children or an outbreak of a fatal disease “may” affect your children. If we lived our lives in fear of what “May, Possibly, Might or Potentially” could happen we would never leave the house.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:03 PM

    @niall: You have constitutional and legal basis for making this sweeping statement I assume?

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:28 PM

    @Joe Bloggs: Yes very Adult of you.

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    Mute Richard Brady
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    Dec 7th 2017, 10:53 PM

    @Mick Jordan: so what your saying is let us not worry about the consequences on anything or how to protect ourselves in case we get upset. Your some clown.

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 11:33 PM

    @Richard Brady: You may get killed a car accident over the weekend should you stop driving or been driven? You may choke on a piece of food, should you stop eating just in case?

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    Mute John Walsh
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:35 PM

    Referendum please , as a former colony we should not be fighting ex imperialist wars

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    Mute Adrian
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:41 PM

    Bypassing the referendums because they might get the wrong answer! Tusk probably giving them EU support on condition they back this. Selling the Irish people out again because they’re making a dogs dinner of running the country and they need the EU support on EU conditions.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:05 PM

    @Adrian: You have constitutional and legal basis for making this sweeping statement I assume?

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    Mute Roy Dowling
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:53 PM

    Genuine question. Last I checked there was 158 TD’S in the Dail. So who’s the 41 that didn’t bother voting?. is there a way to find out?

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    Mute Rory Toner
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:37 PM

    @Roy Dowling: Good question Roy. I bet they didn’t know there was vote taking place cause it has been so covert. This should have been a vote for the Irish People, not the EU puppets

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    Mute Eileen Sheeran
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    Dec 7th 2017, 10:00 PM

    @Roy Dowling: They were probably having a piss-up in the Dail bar!

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    Mute Marko
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:30 PM

    It really irks me when td’s abstain from voting

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    Mute cormacpaddies
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:55 PM

    Come on Irish, now go to war against Russia so merkel and the eu can replace your country with africans. I wonder why the British decided to get out of the eu?

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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:47 PM

    @cormacpaddies: They better not sink any of our naval ships , otherwise how will the Africans get here .

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    Mute Stephen Maher
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:02 PM

    I dont like it.
    We are further alienating ourselves from our two biggest supporters both finacially and militarily and are crossing a line with our neutrality.
    This is referendum worthy.

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    Mute BlueSkyThinking
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:40 PM

    I want a pan European army. We can’t be outsourcing our defence to the US, it’s ridiculous. The EU is a soft power, the fact that 2 million unarmed civiliains can just walk in across the borders shows just how weak the EU is. Same with Russia in the Crimea and the Bosnia war: where the EU had to get the US army in to bring peace to the European countries.
    I don’t buy the neutrality thing either. Ireland can’t be hiding behind the skirts of the US/UK/EU anymore.

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    Mute Chris Healy
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    Dec 8th 2017, 12:12 AM

    @BlueSkyThinking: Europe had a paneuropean army. The reason the USA is here is because it was them who last liberated Europeans from the last paneuropean army.

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    Mute James2015
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:42 PM

    The people should have a vote in issues that arrise like this

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    Mute @mdmak33
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:02 PM

    My god, what else is for sale.

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    Mute Harry Foley
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:37 PM

    Selling the Country without the consent of the people ! We fought for a democracy what’s happened to our voice

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    Mute Martin Laird
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:53 PM

    I never voted for this!!!! were my say

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    Mute Michael Maher
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:10 PM

    If anyone can not see by now that Leo & Co are putting the european empire first before the Irish people then they must be blind.
    Everything the FG FF government, speak, introduce and sign off from climate change nonsense,to new levy taxes and laws are in favor of their euro masters.
    Outside of the Pale and few other places our rural towns and villages are falling down,derelict full of poor people with all the midland infrastructure turning to dust.

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    Mute John Hartigan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:31 PM

    Fog and ff out

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    Mute Damocles
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:31 PM

    Good stuff. You can’t expect the EU to have your back if you don’t have theirs.

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    Mute Cathal S Byrne
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:44 PM

    @Damocles: nobody needs to have our back as we are not being attacked. If terrorism comes to this country it’s a matter for this country to deal with and not the EU.

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    Mute Mitch Peterson
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:01 PM

    @Cathal S Byrne: Cathal, can you say that we will never be attached?

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:27 PM

    @Finipops: Did we have our own interests at heart “We” borrowed and spent like drunken sailors from foreign banks?

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    Mute Damocles
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:29 PM

    @Cathal S Byrne: they’ve had your back on Brexit negotiations. 27 countries working together as one.

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:30 PM

    @Finipops: “We” as a nation, or are not part of the Irish nation?

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    Mute Cathal S Byrne
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:34 PM

    @Mitch Peterson: can never say never but why would you put yourself in line to be attacked by joining something that we don’t have to. Optics are important.

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    Mute Cathal S Byrne
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:35 PM

    @Finipops: neither did I or anyone I know but our money is being used to pay for it.

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    Mute cormacpaddies
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    Dec 7th 2017, 9:50 PM

    @Damocles: exactly. We have their back so we can send our people to get killed in wars they want while they will have our back by taking away our sovereignty and replacing our population with africans

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    Mute Chris Healy
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    Dec 8th 2017, 12:14 AM

    @Damocles: like how they had our back after the 2008 banking crisis? I guess with friends like that, who needs enemies?

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    Mute Jarlath Murphy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:33 PM

    Those that are keen to fight in EU/NATO battles are free to join the British, German, French armed forces.

    The TDs who voted for this should lead by example and volunteer both themselves and their children of military age for the next expeditionary force, or are they just cowards who want other people’s children put in harms way so they can attend Commemorative services in the future?

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:52 PM

    @Jarlath Murphy: And part of “Defence” agreement do you fail to understand? It is an agreement to provide assistance to a member nation if that member Nation is assaulted by a hostile foreign agency. So what (non existant) Expeditionary Force are you referring to?

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    Mute Jarlath Murphy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 8:16 PM

    @Mick Jordan: Mick I think we all know what it means, and they can dress it up in any language they want but we all know what it is!

    Suggest you look up the British Expeditionary Force, I’m not here to educate you as you apparently already have all the answers?

    French Foreign Legion is still recruiting!

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 8:46 PM

    @Jarlath Murphy: Then you should learn a little history. The BEF was sent to France “after” the UK and France “Declared War” on Germany. Now who are the EU (that is not a nation state) going to declare war on?

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    Mute Jarlath Murphy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 8:55 PM

    @Mick Jordan: You tell me, your the Arm Chair General with all the answers?

    But if we are not going to declare War on anyone, why do we need to formally join a military force with no enemy in such haste?

    Yes, thats my point, the BEF went off on a little adventure and got their As* handed back to them at Dunkirk! They were fortunate to escape thanks to the civilian armada that rescued them!

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 9:21 PM

    @Jarlath Murphy: Defence is what this agreement is about. Now this maybe hard for you to comprehend but Defence or to Defend is to protect oneself or others when you or they have been attacked. (Offence is to attack some one or thing). Now this agreement is about assisting other members or being assisted by other members if they or we are attacked by a hostile force. Now since the 1940′s No European Country currently in the EU has invaded any other European Country either in or outside the EU. But there is a very real threat to EU member states from being attacked from hostile forces outside the EU. And this is what this agreement for, mutual assistance for any member that requests it.

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    Mute Jarlath Murphy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 9:27 PM

    @Mick Jordan: I think we all know what defence is, but thanks for your patronising contribution!

    So again which hostile forces exactly are we planning on …ehhh “Defending” yourselves against?

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 11:40 PM

    @Jarlath Murphy: Well Russia has be rather hostile over the past few years to it neighbours. Just ask the Moldvans, Georgians and Ukranians. And the Baltic States have increased defence spending as have the Finns, Swedes, Norwegians, Poles, Bulgarians, Romanians because of Russian hostility. All but the Norwegians are EU members. Maybe you hadn’t noticed Russia’s aggressive behaviour until now.

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    Mute Michael Maher
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    Dec 7th 2017, 11:46 PM

    @Jarlath Murphy: It’s a force that will be used to keep european citizens in line Spain recently could be used as an example.
    A pole, a german,a french and a dutch rule the roost .

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    Mute Jarlath Murphy
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    Dec 8th 2017, 12:25 AM

    @Mick Jordan: Can’t say I have ever had Russians aggressive with me, know quite a few, nice bunch of lads, if we think they’re hostile state should we just intern them now or wait until hostilities are announced?

    Frankly sounds like more Cold War clap trap, we grew up with that ICBM race nonsense which seemed more imminent and yet we didn’t need to join NATO then!

    It must be the Guinness they want to invade us for is it?

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 8th 2017, 6:02 AM

    @Jarlath Murphy: Did I say an invasion of Ireland was imminent? On the other hand an invasion of one or all of the Baltic States members is a very possibility. That is why it is a “Mutual” Assistance agreement. But you know that already. But hey you want to be one of those people that ignore the screams of your neighbours when they are being raped, robbed and murdered by a violent thug so be it.

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    Mute Jarlath Murphy
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    Dec 8th 2017, 6:42 AM

    @Mick Jordan: “Raped, robbed and murdered by a violent thug”!

    Like I said more jingoistic clap trap, your sounding a bit Kitsonisque!
    Your Neighbour needs you!
    In his day it was the freedom of small nations and it was the poor Nuns the Hun was raping, now its Boris apparently!
    As I say we all know how successful an adventure that WW1 turned into!

    So you have your Superman underpants on while the rest of us are shivering with fear in our cellars is that what it?
    As you admit we are not in any imminent danger, yet again I suggest that those seeking a military adventure pick a standing army of their choice and join up, to fight the good fight, and all that rubbish!
    Off you go, Ryanair are doing some great deals in the Baltics!

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    Mute jon-boy55
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:48 PM

    And this is why voting in elections is futile

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    Mute cormacpaddies
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:01 PM

    @jon-boy55: vote for who? fianna fail, fine gael, sinn fein, labour all the same with the eu and would have voted for this. The only party that is against the eu is The National Party with Justin Barrett, he wants to get out of the eurozone, print our own money, stop mass immigration and wants to adopt a military approach like Switzerland( a country that has been neutral and never invaded for 200 years despite being in the middle of Europe’s warzone)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCMrg8v4nbE&t=38s

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    Mute Darren Bates
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:30 PM

    @cormacpaddies: lol

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    Mute Gisbert Bayertz
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:21 PM

    That’s a disaster

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    Mute EC P Ford
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:47 PM

    Correct decision

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    Mute Roy O' Brien
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    Dec 7th 2017, 11:02 PM

    This should have went to the Irish people to vote on

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    Mute Gerard Heery
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    Dec 7th 2017, 9:37 PM

    Next recession they’ll able to sign all the young adults into the euro army, because England won’t be taken economic asylum seekers.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Dec 8th 2017, 12:52 AM

    @Gerard Heery: And enforced national service is part of this agreement is it?

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    Mute Gerard Heery
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    Dec 8th 2017, 7:42 AM

    @Danny Rafferty: like everything introduced it gets fully implemented over time they don’t tell you everything,like IW plans, like property tax , Lisbon, mastricht ,prepared to be screwed onced implemented.

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    Mute Gerard Heery
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    Dec 8th 2017, 7:47 AM

    @Gerard Heery: also they invaded Libya ,Iraq,seria ,Afghan, made a mess of them.

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    Mute eastsmer
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    Dec 7th 2017, 8:59 PM

    This is just a rubber stamp exercise.
    The Army are already exercising with the Finnish Army in the ‘North West Europe’ Group.

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:46 PM

    The amount of Lies, Scaremongering and un-informed Bull@hit being written on here about a (non existent) European Army, a European Super State, Conscription into this phantom army and (non existent) Irish Neutrality is amazing. This is a “Defence” agreement (as opposed to Offence). It is Not the foundation of a EU Army, it is Not the foundation of a EU Super State, it does Not impinge on our Non Aligned Status. By joining we do Not have to supply troops or equipment to any operation that our own National Government does not wish to get involved in. It is an agreement that permits other EU nations to legally assist each other Militarly if asked by a member nation in need.

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    Mute Chris Healy
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    Dec 7th 2017, 10:00 PM

    Fails to get something passed by referendum and treaty, rush it through the back door after. This is like the entire history of the EU. As for needing allies from imaginary enemies (can someone, even in their wildest dreams, think of who would pose a threat to Ireland), Leo should do some number crunching before hitching the wagon to Brussels. Once the UK leaves the Union, the combined Defence budget of remaining EU states will be about 2/3rds of China’s, 1/5 of America’s, and barely double either Russia’s or even the UK. Also considering, along with taking away the unions largest military, the uk will also be taking away its second biggest financial contributor and thus this new eu army will be busy suppressing succession movements in the eastern members who are going to freak out once the free euro dollars stop flowing in. The EU is heading for the cliff. Maybe reform along with introduction of a real democracy might save it but sadly it seems like all previous paneuropean regimes, the masters of the union are simply going to double down and tighten their grip.

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    Mute Chamillionaire
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:12 PM

    The right choice considering the current climate we live in and no more US support since trumpy , we’re so inadequately trained and/or equipped here to deal with even a terrorist attack .

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    Mute kevin
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:49 PM

    Neutrality is a cowards policy

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    Mute kevin
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:07 PM

    @Con O’Driscoll: sorry con but theres no such thing as honest neutrality. Switzerland is a sliabhain nation who have accommodated everyone from the nazis to modern day criminals in money laundering and tax evasion. You need to pick a side. Thats life.

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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:44 PM

    @Con O’Driscoll: Sorry to hear about your Grandad , I knew a German guy who lost his father on a U-boat , he also moaned about us not letting them use our ports .
    You see that’s the thing about being Neutral , you stay out of other peoples affairs .

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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:04 PM

    @Con O’Driscoll: Didn’t Churchill himself have plans to invade Ireland . I’m not too sure if you are aware , we had only finished a war of independence against Britain 18 years previously .
    The leaders of the Irish government had personally used weapons against the British in the fight for Irish freedom , do you honestly think they were going to forget that ?

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    Mute John Colgan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 5:27 PM
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    Mute Tommy Whelan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:26 PM

    I guess this means the IDF will find themselves under the command of British generals and serving along side British troops .

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    Mute Mick Jordan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:29 PM

    @Tommy Whelan: Well as the UK is leaving the EU and we are not in NATO and this is an EU pact I doubt it very much.

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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:33 PM

    @Tommy Whelan: Ha Ha , it probably means we will be fighting AGAINST British generals and British troops , backed up by our new military allies : (

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    Mute Father Hody Commody
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:04 PM

    An invitation to attack us.

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    Mute Maurice Dodd
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    Dec 7th 2017, 11:20 PM

    Dail “bar” voted for this
    I reakon somebody shouted “Pepsi “ and vodka?”
    And they all said “yes”

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    Mute Tommy Whelan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:15 PM

    No this can’t be true . You me to tell me the ROI is getting a set of balls .

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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:36 PM

    @Tommy Whelan: Most Irish people do not want this , if they had a referendum tomorrow I bet it would be knocked back .
    And we always had balls , that’s why we’re called the Republic of Ireland and not some British province , like Londonistan .

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    Mute jon-boy55
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    Dec 7th 2017, 6:42 PM

    @Tommy Whelan: delighted for you tommy, finally you are your uniformed terrorist mates get to be part of a brigade of legal murderers with an Irish flag on your arm

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    Mute Tommy Whelan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:15 PM

    @jon-boy55: don’t know what your getting work up over . The IDF served alongside British troops as part of KFOR in Kosovo under the command of general Jackson. They also recently served alongside British troops in Mali . Theirs nothing new here really .

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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:26 PM

    @Tommy Whelan: Contrary to popular belief , we don’t hate the British (well anymore) unless they are trying to invade us or run our country into the ground .
    “They said I was ruthless, daring, savage, blood thirsty, even heartless. The clergy called me and my comrades murderers; but the British were met with their own weapons. They had gone in the mire to destroy us and our nation and down after them we had to go.” Tom Barry , Guerrilla days in Ireland .

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    Mute Tommy Whelan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:53 PM

    @Ken Hayden: incorrect the Irish where part of the British army since its formation in the 16th century . In the 18th century over half the British army was Irish . The rebels in 1916 where outnumber 3 to 1 by Irish men in Irish regiments . Up to 1916 over 90 percent of soldiers in Ireland was Irish . The Connaught Rangers , Dublin fusiliers, The Royal minster fusiliers, the Royal Irish regiment , the Leinster refinement , the Inniskillen fusiliers and so on . More VCs and battle hounours where won by the Irish then any other units in the British army .

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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Dec 7th 2017, 10:12 PM

    @Tommy Whelan: I don’t know if you heard about John Redmond and the many Irish men who fought for the British in WW1 so we would achieve home rule , Perhaps that’s why the Irish representation in the british army was so skewed .
    Once Britain denied that to us after the war , it was some of the same men who had risked their lives fighting for the British so that we could get our own independence , who were the most bitter of Irish patriots .
    You also claim that many Irish fought in the British army prior to the 20th century , perhaps you should read up on the French Milice in WW2 , and a guy called Quisling in Norway .

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Dec 8th 2017, 12:56 AM

    @Tommy Whelan: I didn’t see anything about tennis in the coverage of this debate Tommy. Why are you so pleased?
    Do you have shares in Slazenger?

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    Mute Abe Brennan
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    Dec 7th 2017, 10:20 PM

    Neutral me hole.

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    Mute Rachel Didleu
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    Dec 7th 2017, 9:19 PM

    Does this mean they will allow US military planes use Shannon…hope not

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    Mute Mick McKenzie
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    Dec 8th 2017, 12:55 AM

    Ah sure we will be grand, sure when the s..t hits the fan, we can ask nicely for the RAF to patrol our neutral sky’s, as it so happens they do, and we can go with the usual cap in hand to Europe to pick up the rest of Defence tab.. Happy out..

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    Mute Colm Molloy
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    Dec 8th 2017, 3:42 AM

    Very sad day for the EU, the world and Ireland..
    Look what the American War Machine has done and what it is doing…
    So now we build a new European one..

    This is very very clever.

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    Mute Matthew O'Kane
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    Dec 8th 2017, 9:32 AM

    the 1% just want to put that 700 billion US military spend a year on the EU zone and if its spent on bombs and war it wont be spent on school emergency services. Just look at the UK nuclear bombs but they are privatising everything, things falling apart and there are terror attacks on their home soil USA is the same worst setup for profit and war. Its all a scam no eu army and no 700billion euro spend on war its all they are shoe horning us into. Dont let fear rob your taxs

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    Mute Derrick O'Leary
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    Dec 7th 2017, 8:02 PM

    Ireland signs up to the 999th first step to a European army since 1973.
    You, your granny and her cat will be sent to Afghanistan tomorrow. Bring sunblock.

    Honestly, you want to get a completely clueless, fact-free, hyperbole-fraught answer akin to a child’s description of the bogeyman under the bed?
    Ask a Brit about the EU or ask the average Irish citizen about anything that includes the word “military”.

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    Mute Johnnathan Biskalero
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    Dec 9th 2017, 10:00 AM

    Why are people shocked ?? people told us this would happen…….Governments are very good at lying and selling their people out for a pat on the back…….get your kids ready for wars on packs of lies…..they need alot of sheeple !!

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    Mute Kerry Evans
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    Dec 8th 2017, 10:06 AM

    Pesco we have been sold a pup ….
    Mandatory military service on the way…
    The contempt shown to the Irish people
    Knows no bounds ……lies ….
    TRAITORS

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    Mute Awfully handsome man
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    Dec 7th 2017, 7:22 PM

    Pescatarians need defending why not sure

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    Mute Missyb211
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    Dec 8th 2017, 5:11 AM

    jaz, they kept that quiet, all the while raving on about borders!

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    Mute Eugene Conroy
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    Dec 8th 2017, 7:29 AM

    Well now doesn’t that beat banaher

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    Mute Bobby tolster
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    Dec 8th 2017, 1:18 AM

    This country is jam packed with idiots.

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