Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
The plan raised concerns here that it could undermine Ireland’s policy of neutrality.
Some argue Pesco is the first step towards an EU army, with its proposals including inclusion in the European command centre, a network of logistic hubs across Europe and a creation of a European crisis response centre, as well as the joint training of military officers.
A heated debated on the issue kicked off earlier this week with news the government had planned a vote on the issue this week.
The government argued it must sign-up to the deal before an EU Council meeting of defence ministers taking place on 11 December.
Advertisement
However, parties such as Labour argued that this was not necessary and asked for the vote to be pushed back to 2018 so as to allow sufficient time to have a public debate on the issue and for the Oireachtas Defence Committee to have the opportunity to hear submissions from independent experts.
Wexford TD Mick Wallace said he was astonished at the video Europe is using to promote Pesco and was even more shocked that a small country like Ireland would consider signing up to it.
Meanwhile Solidarity-PBP member Richard Boyd Barrett accused the government of pulling a “fast one” with the vote today.
He said his party are considering taking a constitutional challenge against the government plan.
He said the government’s response to his criticisms were “the most cynical rubbish” he had ever heard. The Dun Laoghaire TD said this was exactly the move the Irish people were afraid of when they voted down the Lisbon Treaty the first time around.
He pointed to the European Commission’s own fact sheet on Pesco which states the difference between Pesco and other forms of cooperation is the “binding nature” of the commitments undertaken by participating member states.
The Taoiseach Leo Varadkar defended the government’s position stating that he wants Ireland to be involved in Pesco.
He said it is time that Europe stops relying on the US for its defence.
My view is that a Europe that is worth building is a Europe that is worth defending. For a very long time, all of Europe has relied on the United States to provide for its defence. There are real threats to European security and, over time, rather than relying on the United States to defend Europe and pay for European defence, Europe should provide and pay for its own defence and not be dependent on the United States in the way it has been since 1945.
That is what Pesco and European security and defence co-operation are all about. It is Europe starting to take responsibility for and control over its own defence, not relying on the United States in the way it has done until now.
Many TDs said that in years to come, today’s vote will be seen as Ireland’s first step towards the country’s role in a European defence strategy.
Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article.
Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Close
194 Comments
This is YOUR comments community. Stay civil, stay constructive, stay on topic.
Please familiarise yourself with our comments policy
here
before taking part.
@Simon O’Connor: we elect TDs to govern and then complain when they do.. and also complain when they use committees and consultants…simple procedure here, Vote held, motion passed , next…
@Mary Loony Mc Donald: This is a very complex issue and directly impacts our own national security and sovereignty. It will get to the point where our own defence operations may require buy off from external powers
@Bob McTanned: Absolutely, and that was the turning point for me. UK are right to get out, ride the storm but at least they will be in control of their destiny.
@Mary Loony Mc Donald: Do you agree with war? Are you not worried that our children and grandchildren could one day be conscripted to fight a rich man’s war if this is fully implemented?
@Danny Rafferty: Details on the fiscal and legal integration when we signed up to an economical block in 1973 please? Or even when we signed the multiple treaties?
@Mary Loony Mc Donald: if by any chance in the future there is a conflict will the FF/FG TDs sons be the first up for cannon fodder? I think not. Remember WE THE PEOPLE are the employers of the shower of wasters in Leinster House and We should have a say in giving up our Neutrality by Refferendum.
@Mary Mc Carthy: Try article 42 of the Lisbon Treaty. That’s the one they bullied us into voting again. It’s now going to be one superstate with one army and one Chancellor against all the rest. I think that one of the original models of the structure was the crown, the army and the East India company and the latest being the US in the middle east. Head of state promotes, guards and enforces all commercial interests using the army to die for them. We signed up for it when we voted again. It won’t be long before Irish blood is splattered all over the fields of Europe again.
@Simon O’Connor: why are you surprised? This is how the EU has passed every controversial change. First try the public via referendum if you have to, then force their government to sneak it through. Heck, forcing a govt to do their bidding to avoid a negative referendum seems to be a trick they copied from Germany’s annexation of Austria
@Joe Travers: defend from what? Mark my words, the only nation who’ll ever be threatened or invaded by Brussels private army will be a misbehaving EU state. No more Syriza-like or Brexit-like surprises.
@Gus Sheridan: what superpower? 16% of the EUs GDP is on its way out at the moment. And unless they show a bit of common sense and make a deal with Britain so Germany can keep selling them Audis and washing machines, say good bye to Germany’s GDP. Likewise, as the only EU state to invest the minimum 2% GDP required by NATO, spending 10 billion more than it’s next big spender France, the UK also takes away the lions share of the EUs military strength.
@Stephen murphy: actually the hens do nothing to stop the foxes, that’s the farmers job. And at the moment, so of the mainland hens are telling the American farmer to go away
@Mary Loony Mc Donald: are you insane they’ll be shipping Irish men and women off to the Middle East and that opens the gates to mass rapes and suicide bombers in Ireland, in muslims eyes we’ll be as bad as the French German and English and look at what’s happened to them.
Or worse again we’ll be dragged into a world war look at the states recognizing Israels capitol being Jerusalem or mass Islamic and African migration or the building of an EU army led by Germany and France and England pulling out of the EU shits gonna get real bad real fast and we should let them get on with it by themselves. Our politicians are traitors to this country along with anyone who supports them.
@Simon O’Connor: are just right, they just want to put that 700 billion US military spend a year on the EU zone and if its spent on bombs and war it wont be spent on school emergency services. Just look at the UK nuclear bombs but they are privatising everything, things falling apart and there are terror attacks on their home soil USA is the same worst setup for profit and war. Its all a scam no eu army and no 700billion euro spend on war its all they are shoe horning us into. Dont let fear rob your taxs
@Shakka1244: surely this is a good thing. We cannot rely on the US anymore and should have some kind of joined up protection of the EU especially with rogue states like North Korea becoming nuclear.
@Sandra O’Fucáif: ah. it all ok so. i hope anyone thinking we are with the rest of Europe on future military action. know not to target us because we have a special opt out clause
@Cathal S Byrne: As I said in a previous thread Norway, Finland, Poland, Holland, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia the Baltic States and Greece all said the same thing in 1938. In the 70′s Cyprus had the same thought. In the past 20 years Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine thought so too!!! Didn’t fair to well for them now did it?
History has taught us that we should be prepared at any moment for the threat of invasion.
It only takes a matter of years for the status quo to destabilise while military build-ups can take decades for smaller nations like Ireland. Small countries across Europe fell in the 1930′s because they failed to prepare in the 1920′s.
@Shakka1244: Ireland is not a neutral country. We are non aligned and take a neutral stance on many issues but we are not and never have been a neutral country
@Cathal S Byrne: Poland did not expect to be attacked. Ukraine did not expect to be attacked. Most countries do not expect to be attacked. Thats the main advantage you can get in a war, the element of surprise.
@Cathal S Byrne: So if one side builds arms and the other doesn’t then unopposed invasions happen. Let’s say nobody was in a position to oppose ISIS. Would you have converted to their brand of Islam? Or do you think pacifism stopped Soviet Tanks from rolling on the rest of Europe in the 50′s? In the 30′s did Chinese neutrality stop the Imperial Japanese Army? In 1938 Finland was Neutral did that prevent the Soviet invasion? In 2014 Ukraine was not part of any military pact did that stop Russia invading and annexing Ukranian territory? Did Kuwait attack Iraq? Did Cyprus attack Turkey? What did Georgia do to Russia? What did Tibet do to China?
@Deborah Behan: why can’t we rely on the USA and if not, what makes you think that the EU could protect us? The EU had one major military power and it’s in the process of leaving
@Thought for Food: no, they fell because their powerful allies (France and Britain) who promised to protect them, abandoned them to have peace at any cost. And in the case of Poland, greed, as by supporting the breaking up of Czechoslovakia by the Germans to get a piece of Silesia, they sealed their own fate.
@Cathal S Byrne: no, the opposite actually. Since at least the days of the Romans, “Si vis pacem, para bellum”, or “if you want peace, prepare for war” has been sadly proven true time and time again.
@Mick Jordan: successful neutral countries kept their neutrality by having a strong defense. I love that story of the German kaiser asking a Swiss man what his nation’s 1/4 million militiamen would do if 1/2 million German soldiers invaded his country. And, as Switzerland has every man armed and a trained marksmen, he replied that they would just “shoot twice and go home”.
Terrorism is the main threat to Europe. Who was the person that opened the floodgates and let them all in. Who is the person that wants this extremely covert PESCO passed without anyone barely knowing a thing about it. So she has now got military control over the Entire EU. Thanks Leo.
@Rory Toner: the main threat to europe is zero democracy, rule by bankers, return of fascism under control of the victors of the 2nd world war: germany, and state sponsored terrorism which eu citizens tax now goes towards funding
A dictatorship, plain and simple.
156 morons decide the faith of the nation.
Will job bridge or whatever the scheme is to get the youth back in employment now be conscription?
Europe has failed us many times in the past decade but this is an all time low.
@Trevor Hayden: Maybe you can point out where in this agreement an EU Army is mentioned or conscription for that matter. You sound like the Brexiteers in the UK when they were screeching about how Turkey was poised to join the EU and an how EU Army was going to replace NATO. Lies and false propaganda.
@Trevor Hayden: I am still waiting for the EU to collapse as was prophesied for the past 20 years. And what about the imminent arrival of Turkey in the EU or the crash of the Euro. Still waiting for that to happen too.
@Mick Jordan: Not at all mick, I am giving scenarios that could happen, thinking outside the box.
If more people did it we may not have been in the s€€t we are in now.
All we have to do is look at how our government and the EU have treated us in the past.
Burn bondholders /Dont burn bondholders, water charges /no water charges.
All blatant lies to deceive the electorate.
@Trevor Hayden: So you are contemplating what may or may not happen somwhere off in the future. Not what is happening right now or is actually in the planning stages to happen. Do you use a crystal ball or tarot cards?
@Mick Jordan: How many people predicted the crash in 08 mick, only to be told they were nuts?
With Bertie and Eddie hobbs telling everyone to buy holiday homes, I think a little scepticism at times is helpful.
@Mick Jordan: I think I’ve explained my view mick (without the aid of tarot cards or a crystal ball) you obviously have complete faith in the current government, i dont.
This is a complete joke. I don’t know how any Irish man or woman can support this considering we are a neutral nation joining a militarised super-state.
@Daniel Donovan: As I have asked others to point out where is this Super State you speak of? Where is this Super Army you refer too? Can you point it out please?
@Daniel Donovan: That’s grand , the EU will purchase all this new weaponry for us. That’s relief , we don’t have any money to house our homeless or fix our very ill health system,let alone buy a heap of military hardware that we don’t need.
The next step will be EU standard military hardware which will benefit some of the monopolies already in existence and will stranglehold the smaller firms.
@Sandra O’Fucáif: On what basis? Just like we have full control over our fisheries – allowing Spanish super trawlers to hoover up all the fish in our Exclusive Economic Zone?
@Sandra O’Fucáif: I went off topic with that reply. If you watch their promotional video they speak about so many variations in military equipment within the individual militaries. To them, standardising the equipment cuts out a huge amount of procurement costs, but also ensures common hardware working procedures. Yeah this is a great idea within one nation’s military, but this is not a good idea across the continent.
Can you imagine if Greece left the EU and became cosy with the likes of Russia, or worse still if Turkey were granted membership?
@Simon O’Connor: Every Western military already use standard sized ammo. So it makes zero difference to what weapon they use. As for Armoured vehicles (Tanks etc) again the ammo they use is already standard the differences are in the type of engine and Armour they use. Ships are already have standard hull design and are equipped to each navies needs. And aircraft too also use standard type missiles and bombs. Apart from stealth technology and electronics as per each countries requirements there is very little difference between Western military aircraft.
@Mick Jordan: That’s not true. There are standard Concept of Operations for certain activities within NATO, and some standardised ammo but that’s essentially it. There is no commonality whatsoever with hull design – many designs are standard during the concept design phase but are tailored during the detailed design phase. Look at the French, Italian and Spanish frigates which have successfully been exported to numerous navies now – they are all entirely different in equipment specification, layout and operation. Looking at the UK as an example, the acoustic signature on their frigates are a strategic asset. Why do you think the Russians consistently sail around in subs
@Simon O’Connor: Some standardised ammo? What standard issue Western Rifle systems don’t use Standard NATO rounds? What Tank gun Barrels don’t use Standard NATO tank rounds? What Western aircraft can’t use a selection of standard NATO missile systems? As I stated each ships hull is standard design but out fitted to each countries individual needs. Where some countries require more of an anti submarine role others may want an anti Aircraft/missile role but all can be re-fitted to those requirements.
@Mick Jordan: Hang on a second. Just take a look at the Typhoon as an example or even the F35 fighter – all of the end users have a range of different armament and systems. All of this equipment is designed to comply with a certain specification, but a lot of these platforms use different individual equipment manufactured by different companies. The exact same can be said with naval platforms. And again, the hull design is not standard at all. Do you think the designs from Navantia, Fincantieri, BAES or DCNS for export into Germany / Canada / Australia / New Zealand will carry over much commonality? They might look the same from a capability perspective but they are nothing like their parent design – not dimensionally or armament. And each export variant is vastly different from the other.
I don’t want to go off in a tangent here, but according to the propaganda video, the whole point is a uniformed military.
@Simon O’Connor: All fit standard mounts on the aircraft. Again with the Ships they are customised to a countries individual needs. But all use standard sized ammo and missiles. It all stems from what is known as NATO Standard. And for a Uniform Military every European Military units can integrate along side each other without any problem. Even the Irish Army train regularly along side their European colleagues. What you have attempted to do is imply problems where there are none.
@Mick Jordan: There’s a lot more to it than missiles though Mick. The primary purpose of the platforms are to deploy weapons, but that’s actually a very small piece of the puzzle. There’s everything else from the radar systems, sensor systems, propulsion, platform management systems, combat systems…the list goes on. Going by the video which is in this article, there is a call to standardise equipment, cut out NRE and have a uniformed military.
All I’m saying this could lead to a situation where a designer like Navantia or BAE could be given huge advantages over smaller designers. The same logic applies at equipment level and construction level.
We’ll have to agree to disagree – I’m out. Have a good one
Sail is full of Irish puppets. Will agree to anything to be seen as best in class.
The people should have a say on this, and Government no longer represents the people.
The perfect Irish solution to an Irish problem, remain neutral while joining a military alliance and hosting one of the US biggest military transits airports in the world. Like our two faced previous approaches to the bank bailout, the trolley crisis, the homeless crisis, the Apple tax scams you couldn’t make it up if you tried. We may not be able to grow bananas, but that doesn’t stop up from being one of the biggest banana Republics in the world.
@niall: Why? Did you not vote in the last general election for someone to represent you in the Dail? Do feel the need for a referendum on every single piece of legislation passed?
@niall: And as you put it “it may affect my Children”, an Asteroid strike “may” also affect your children or an outbreak of a fatal disease “may” affect your children. If we lived our lives in fear of what “May, Possibly, Might or Potentially” could happen we would never leave the house.
@Mick Jordan: so what your saying is let us not worry about the consequences on anything or how to protect ourselves in case we get upset. Your some clown.
@Richard Brady: You may get killed a car accident over the weekend should you stop driving or been driven? You may choke on a piece of food, should you stop eating just in case?
Bypassing the referendums because they might get the wrong answer! Tusk probably giving them EU support on condition they back this. Selling the Irish people out again because they’re making a dogs dinner of running the country and they need the EU support on EU conditions.
@Roy Dowling: Good question Roy. I bet they didn’t know there was vote taking place cause it has been so covert. This should have been a vote for the Irish People, not the EU puppets
Come on Irish, now go to war against Russia so merkel and the eu can replace your country with africans. I wonder why the British decided to get out of the eu?
I dont like it.
We are further alienating ourselves from our two biggest supporters both finacially and militarily and are crossing a line with our neutrality.
This is referendum worthy.
I want a pan European army. We can’t be outsourcing our defence to the US, it’s ridiculous. The EU is a soft power, the fact that 2 million unarmed civiliains can just walk in across the borders shows just how weak the EU is. Same with Russia in the Crimea and the Bosnia war: where the EU had to get the US army in to bring peace to the European countries.
I don’t buy the neutrality thing either. Ireland can’t be hiding behind the skirts of the US/UK/EU anymore.
@BlueSkyThinking: Europe had a paneuropean army. The reason the USA is here is because it was them who last liberated Europeans from the last paneuropean army.
If anyone can not see by now that Leo & Co are putting the european empire first before the Irish people then they must be blind.
Everything the FG FF government, speak, introduce and sign off from climate change nonsense,to new levy taxes and laws are in favor of their euro masters.
Outside of the Pale and few other places our rural towns and villages are falling down,derelict full of poor people with all the midland infrastructure turning to dust.
@Damocles: nobody needs to have our back as we are not being attacked. If terrorism comes to this country it’s a matter for this country to deal with and not the EU.
@Mitch Peterson: can never say never but why would you put yourself in line to be attacked by joining something that we don’t have to. Optics are important.
@Damocles: exactly. We have their back so we can send our people to get killed in wars they want while they will have our back by taking away our sovereignty and replacing our population with africans
Those that are keen to fight in EU/NATO battles are free to join the British, German, French armed forces.
The TDs who voted for this should lead by example and volunteer both themselves and their children of military age for the next expeditionary force, or are they just cowards who want other people’s children put in harms way so they can attend Commemorative services in the future?
@Jarlath Murphy: And part of “Defence” agreement do you fail to understand? It is an agreement to provide assistance to a member nation if that member Nation is assaulted by a hostile foreign agency. So what (non existant) Expeditionary Force are you referring to?
@Jarlath Murphy: Then you should learn a little history. The BEF was sent to France “after” the UK and France “Declared War” on Germany. Now who are the EU (that is not a nation state) going to declare war on?
@Mick Jordan: You tell me, your the Arm Chair General with all the answers?
But if we are not going to declare War on anyone, why do we need to formally join a military force with no enemy in such haste?
Yes, thats my point, the BEF went off on a little adventure and got their As* handed back to them at Dunkirk! They were fortunate to escape thanks to the civilian armada that rescued them!
@Jarlath Murphy: Defence is what this agreement is about. Now this maybe hard for you to comprehend but Defence or to Defend is to protect oneself or others when you or they have been attacked. (Offence is to attack some one or thing). Now this agreement is about assisting other members or being assisted by other members if they or we are attacked by a hostile force. Now since the 1940′s No European Country currently in the EU has invaded any other European Country either in or outside the EU. But there is a very real threat to EU member states from being attacked from hostile forces outside the EU. And this is what this agreement for, mutual assistance for any member that requests it.
@Jarlath Murphy: Well Russia has be rather hostile over the past few years to it neighbours. Just ask the Moldvans, Georgians and Ukranians. And the Baltic States have increased defence spending as have the Finns, Swedes, Norwegians, Poles, Bulgarians, Romanians because of Russian hostility. All but the Norwegians are EU members. Maybe you hadn’t noticed Russia’s aggressive behaviour until now.
@Jarlath Murphy: It’s a force that will be used to keep european citizens in line Spain recently could be used as an example.
A pole, a german,a french and a dutch rule the roost .
@Mick Jordan: Can’t say I have ever had Russians aggressive with me, know quite a few, nice bunch of lads, if we think they’re hostile state should we just intern them now or wait until hostilities are announced?
Frankly sounds like more Cold War clap trap, we grew up with that ICBM race nonsense which seemed more imminent and yet we didn’t need to join NATO then!
It must be the Guinness they want to invade us for is it?
@Jarlath Murphy: Did I say an invasion of Ireland was imminent? On the other hand an invasion of one or all of the Baltic States members is a very possibility. That is why it is a “Mutual” Assistance agreement. But you know that already. But hey you want to be one of those people that ignore the screams of your neighbours when they are being raped, robbed and murdered by a violent thug so be it.
@Mick Jordan: “Raped, robbed and murdered by a violent thug”!
Like I said more jingoistic clap trap, your sounding a bit Kitsonisque!
Your Neighbour needs you!
In his day it was the freedom of small nations and it was the poor Nuns the Hun was raping, now its Boris apparently!
As I say we all know how successful an adventure that WW1 turned into!
So you have your Superman underpants on while the rest of us are shivering with fear in our cellars is that what it?
As you admit we are not in any imminent danger, yet again I suggest that those seeking a military adventure pick a standing army of their choice and join up, to fight the good fight, and all that rubbish!
Off you go, Ryanair are doing some great deals in the Baltics!
@jon-boy55: vote for who? fianna fail, fine gael, sinn fein, labour all the same with the eu and would have voted for this. The only party that is against the eu is The National Party with Justin Barrett, he wants to get out of the eurozone, print our own money, stop mass immigration and wants to adopt a military approach like Switzerland( a country that has been neutral and never invaded for 200 years despite being in the middle of Europe’s warzone)
@Danny Rafferty: like everything introduced it gets fully implemented over time they don’t tell you everything,like IW plans, like property tax , Lisbon, mastricht ,prepared to be screwed onced implemented.
The amount of Lies, Scaremongering and un-informed Bull@hit being written on here about a (non existent) European Army, a European Super State, Conscription into this phantom army and (non existent) Irish Neutrality is amazing. This is a “Defence” agreement (as opposed to Offence). It is Not the foundation of a EU Army, it is Not the foundation of a EU Super State, it does Not impinge on our Non Aligned Status. By joining we do Not have to supply troops or equipment to any operation that our own National Government does not wish to get involved in. It is an agreement that permits other EU nations to legally assist each other Militarly if asked by a member nation in need.
Fails to get something passed by referendum and treaty, rush it through the back door after. This is like the entire history of the EU. As for needing allies from imaginary enemies (can someone, even in their wildest dreams, think of who would pose a threat to Ireland), Leo should do some number crunching before hitching the wagon to Brussels. Once the UK leaves the Union, the combined Defence budget of remaining EU states will be about 2/3rds of China’s, 1/5 of America’s, and barely double either Russia’s or even the UK. Also considering, along with taking away the unions largest military, the uk will also be taking away its second biggest financial contributor and thus this new eu army will be busy suppressing succession movements in the eastern members who are going to freak out once the free euro dollars stop flowing in. The EU is heading for the cliff. Maybe reform along with introduction of a real democracy might save it but sadly it seems like all previous paneuropean regimes, the masters of the union are simply going to double down and tighten their grip.
The right choice considering the current climate we live in and no more US support since trumpy , we’re so inadequately trained and/or equipped here to deal with even a terrorist attack .
@Con O’Driscoll: sorry con but theres no such thing as honest neutrality. Switzerland is a sliabhain nation who have accommodated everyone from the nazis to modern day criminals in money laundering and tax evasion. You need to pick a side. Thats life.
@Con O’Driscoll: Sorry to hear about your Grandad , I knew a German guy who lost his father on a U-boat , he also moaned about us not letting them use our ports .
You see that’s the thing about being Neutral , you stay out of other peoples affairs .
@Con O’Driscoll: Didn’t Churchill himself have plans to invade Ireland . I’m not too sure if you are aware , we had only finished a war of independence against Britain 18 years previously .
The leaders of the Irish government had personally used weapons against the British in the fight for Irish freedom , do you honestly think they were going to forget that ?
@Tommy Whelan: Most Irish people do not want this , if they had a referendum tomorrow I bet it would be knocked back .
And we always had balls , that’s why we’re called the Republic of Ireland and not some British province , like Londonistan .
@Tommy Whelan: delighted for you tommy, finally you are your uniformed terrorist mates get to be part of a brigade of legal murderers with an Irish flag on your arm
@jon-boy55: don’t know what your getting work up over . The IDF served alongside British troops as part of KFOR in Kosovo under the command of general Jackson. They also recently served alongside British troops in Mali . Theirs nothing new here really .
@Tommy Whelan: Contrary to popular belief , we don’t hate the British (well anymore) unless they are trying to invade us or run our country into the ground .
“They said I was ruthless, daring, savage, blood thirsty, even heartless. The clergy called me and my comrades murderers; but the British were met with their own weapons. They had gone in the mire to destroy us and our nation and down after them we had to go.” Tom Barry , Guerrilla days in Ireland .
@Ken Hayden: incorrect the Irish where part of the British army since its formation in the 16th century . In the 18th century over half the British army was Irish . The rebels in 1916 where outnumber 3 to 1 by Irish men in Irish regiments . Up to 1916 over 90 percent of soldiers in Ireland was Irish . The Connaught Rangers , Dublin fusiliers, The Royal minster fusiliers, the Royal Irish regiment , the Leinster refinement , the Inniskillen fusiliers and so on . More VCs and battle hounours where won by the Irish then any other units in the British army .
@Tommy Whelan: I don’t know if you heard about John Redmond and the many Irish men who fought for the British in WW1 so we would achieve home rule , Perhaps that’s why the Irish representation in the british army was so skewed .
Once Britain denied that to us after the war , it was some of the same men who had risked their lives fighting for the British so that we could get our own independence , who were the most bitter of Irish patriots .
You also claim that many Irish fought in the British army prior to the 20th century , perhaps you should read up on the French Milice in WW2 , and a guy called Quisling in Norway .
Ah sure we will be grand, sure when the s..t hits the fan, we can ask nicely for the RAF to patrol our neutral sky’s, as it so happens they do, and we can go with the usual cap in hand to Europe to pick up the rest of Defence tab.. Happy out..
Very sad day for the EU, the world and Ireland..
Look what the American War Machine has done and what it is doing…
So now we build a new European one..
the 1% just want to put that 700 billion US military spend a year on the EU zone and if its spent on bombs and war it wont be spent on school emergency services. Just look at the UK nuclear bombs but they are privatising everything, things falling apart and there are terror attacks on their home soil USA is the same worst setup for profit and war. Its all a scam no eu army and no 700billion euro spend on war its all they are shoe horning us into. Dont let fear rob your taxs
Ireland signs up to the 999th first step to a European army since 1973.
You, your granny and her cat will be sent to Afghanistan tomorrow. Bring sunblock.
Honestly, you want to get a completely clueless, fact-free, hyperbole-fraught answer akin to a child’s description of the bogeyman under the bed?
Ask a Brit about the EU or ask the average Irish citizen about anything that includes the word “military”.
Why are people shocked ?? people told us this would happen…….Governments are very good at lying and selling their people out for a pat on the back…….get your kids ready for wars on packs of lies…..they need alot of sheeple !!
Pope Francis remains in 'critical condition' but showing 'slight improvement', Vatican says
Updated
28 mins ago
7.6k
Murder Trial
Sliabh Liag victim would not have died immediately from injuries before cliff fall, trial hears
44 mins ago
2.1k
german election
Christian Democrats come first in German election as far-right claim second place spot
Eoghan Dalton
Updated
22 hrs ago
32.0k
Your Cookies. Your Choice.
Cookies help provide our news service while also enabling the advertising needed to fund this work.
We categorise cookies as Necessary, Performance (used to analyse the site performance) and Targeting (used to target advertising which helps us keep this service free).
We and our 152 partners store and access personal data, like browsing data or unique identifiers, on your device. Selecting Accept All enables tracking technologies to support the purposes shown under we and our partners process data to provide. If trackers are disabled, some content and ads you see may not be as relevant to you. You can resurface this menu to change your choices or withdraw consent at any time by clicking the Cookie Preferences link on the bottom of the webpage .Your choices will have effect within our Website. For more details, refer to our Privacy Policy.
We and our vendors process data for the following purposes:
Use precise geolocation data. Actively scan device characteristics for identification. Store and/or access information on a device. Personalised advertising and content, advertising and content measurement, audience research and services development.
Cookies Preference Centre
We process your data to deliver content or advertisements and measure the delivery of such content or advertisements to extract insights about our website. We share this information with our partners on the basis of consent. You may exercise your right to consent, based on a specific purpose below or at a partner level in the link under each purpose. Some vendors may process your data based on their legitimate interests, which does not require your consent. You cannot object to tracking technologies placed to ensure security, prevent fraud, fix errors, or deliver and present advertising and content, and precise geolocation data and active scanning of device characteristics for identification may be used to support this purpose. This exception does not apply to targeted advertising. These choices will be signaled to our vendors participating in the Transparency and Consent Framework.
Manage Consent Preferences
Necessary Cookies
Always Active
These cookies are necessary for the website to function and cannot be switched off in our systems. They are usually only set in response to actions made by you which amount to a request for services, such as setting your privacy preferences, logging in or filling in forms. You can set your browser to block or alert you about these cookies, but some parts of the site will not then work.
Targeting Cookies
These cookies may be set through our site by our advertising partners. They may be used by those companies to build a profile of your interests and show you relevant adverts on other sites. They do not store directly personal information, but are based on uniquely identifying your browser and internet device. If you do not allow these cookies, you will experience less targeted advertising.
Functional Cookies
These cookies enable the website to provide enhanced functionality and personalisation. They may be set by us or by third party providers whose services we have added to our pages. If you do not allow these cookies then these services may not function properly.
Performance Cookies
These cookies allow us to count visits and traffic sources so we can measure and improve the performance of our site. They help us to know which pages are the most and least popular and see how visitors move around the site. All information these cookies collect is aggregated and therefore anonymous. If you do not allow these cookies we will not be able to monitor our performance.
Store and/or access information on a device 104 partners can use this purpose
Cookies, device or similar online identifiers (e.g. login-based identifiers, randomly assigned identifiers, network based identifiers) together with other information (e.g. browser type and information, language, screen size, supported technologies etc.) can be stored or read on your device to recognise it each time it connects to an app or to a website, for one or several of the purposes presented here.
Personalised advertising and content, advertising and content measurement, audience research and services development 136 partners can use this purpose
Use limited data to select advertising 106 partners can use this purpose
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times an ad is presented to you).
Create profiles for personalised advertising 78 partners can use this purpose
Information about your activity on this service (such as forms you submit, content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (for example, information from your previous activity on this service and other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (that might include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present advertising that appears more relevant based on your possible interests by this and other entities.
Use profiles to select personalised advertising 77 partners can use this purpose
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on your advertising profiles, which can reflect your activity on this service or other websites or apps (like the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects.
Create profiles to personalise content 37 partners can use this purpose
Information about your activity on this service (for instance, forms you submit, non-advertising content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (such as your previous activity on this service or other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (which might for example include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present content that appears more relevant based on your possible interests, such as by adapting the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find content that matches your interests.
Use profiles to select personalised content 33 partners can use this purpose
Content presented to you on this service can be based on your content personalisation profiles, which can reflect your activity on this or other services (for instance, the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects. This can for example be used to adapt the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find (non-advertising) content that matches your interests.
Measure advertising performance 127 partners can use this purpose
Information regarding which advertising is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine how well an advert has worked for you or other users and whether the goals of the advertising were reached. For instance, whether you saw an ad, whether you clicked on it, whether it led you to buy a product or visit a website, etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of advertising campaigns.
Measure content performance 60 partners can use this purpose
Information regarding which content is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine whether the (non-advertising) content e.g. reached its intended audience and matched your interests. For instance, whether you read an article, watch a video, listen to a podcast or look at a product description, how long you spent on this service and the web pages you visit etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of (non-advertising) content that is shown to you.
Understand audiences through statistics or combinations of data from different sources 75 partners can use this purpose
Reports can be generated based on the combination of data sets (like user profiles, statistics, market research, analytics data) regarding your interactions and those of other users with advertising or (non-advertising) content to identify common characteristics (for instance, to determine which target audiences are more receptive to an ad campaign or to certain contents).
Develop and improve services 82 partners can use this purpose
Information about your activity on this service, such as your interaction with ads or content, can be very helpful to improve products and services and to build new products and services based on user interactions, the type of audience, etc. This specific purpose does not include the development or improvement of user profiles and identifiers.
Use limited data to select content 38 partners can use this purpose
Content presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type, or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times a video or an article is presented to you).
Use precise geolocation data 43 partners can use this special feature
With your acceptance, your precise location (within a radius of less than 500 metres) may be used in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Actively scan device characteristics for identification 25 partners can use this special feature
With your acceptance, certain characteristics specific to your device might be requested and used to distinguish it from other devices (such as the installed fonts or plugins, the resolution of your screen) in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Ensure security, prevent and detect fraud, and fix errors 86 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
Your data can be used to monitor for and prevent unusual and possibly fraudulent activity (for example, regarding advertising, ad clicks by bots), and ensure systems and processes work properly and securely. It can also be used to correct any problems you, the publisher or the advertiser may encounter in the delivery of content and ads and in your interaction with them.
Deliver and present advertising and content 96 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
Certain information (like an IP address or device capabilities) is used to ensure the technical compatibility of the content or advertising, and to facilitate the transmission of the content or ad to your device.
Match and combine data from other data sources 68 partners can use this feature
Always Active
Information about your activity on this service may be matched and combined with other information relating to you and originating from various sources (for instance your activity on a separate online service, your use of a loyalty card in-store, or your answers to a survey), in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Link different devices 50 partners can use this feature
Always Active
In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Identify devices based on information transmitted automatically 84 partners can use this feature
Always Active
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
Save and communicate privacy choices 64 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
have your say