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THE GOVERNMENT IS expected to publish legislation later today that will allow for the setting up of a new DNA database in Ireland.
Justice Minister Alan Shatter will set out the details of the new bill, but so far we know that the new law will compel sex offenders, criminals convicted of serious crimes, and those suspected of serious crimes to provide their DNA for the new database.
The database will help to solve crimes and trace missing persons, but civil liberties groups and others may have concerns about the indefinite retention of people’s information if the Garda Commissioner deems it necessary.
But what do you think? Is a DNA database a good idea?
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Like many things in this country, we are way behind when it comes to things like this. Should have happened years ago.
yes, but suspects? all the authorities, or an over zelous garda, needs to do to persecute someone is “suspect” them .. hey presto, you’re on the data base.. you should at least be guilty of something to be on it… typical government power grab over reach, same as always….
and to the red thumb morons, i hope you all are the 1st people innocent of any crimes, to end up on the neo fascist governmental slaves data base… that would be perfect justice…
I have no problem with my DNA being on a database – if I’m innocent of any crime I’ll never flag up. It might even rule me out of a crime I might otherwise have been wrongly accused of.
Maurice , “neo fascist governmental slaves”? Are you one of the people going to Mars by any chance?
It can be used for the good too. Identifying a body.
In spite of what C.S.I type shows and many prosecution services would have us belive Dna is not a reliable evidence and more and more cases based on it are being overturned. So this is at it’s best pointless and at worst leads to a situation where a large supply of partial matches will lead to many inocent people “Helping with inquiries” while everyone says “Sure it must have been them, were’nt they arested on Dna evidence” and remember in most cases where Dna evidence is used Murder, Rape, Sexual assault etc an accuasion is as good as a conviction in the impact on someones life.
Mattoid would you be ok with your finger prints, blood sample and all of your movements on file also so you can be excluded as a suspect?
Francis, your post is nonsense. You just made it up. DNA is now being used to help free innocent people AND prove cases and lock up rapists and murderers in cases that were unsolved for years even decades.
That’s true Geraldine. I’ve very mixed views on the whole thing. The pros and the cons are there. But I think most peoples concern would be the inevitable extension and broadening out of its use at the expense of peoples liberty.
good point Stephen.. why are people so keen to sign away their own rights, especially the way things have gone in this country, schools and hospital wards closing so government can give public funds to the already obscenely rich… why give a government like that another stick to beat all of us with? only the insane could trust a government in Ireland now?
@Maurice
How the f*ck is adding my dna to a database somehow supposed to make it easier for the government to close schools and hospitals?
William
Have a read of this.
@Mattoid: are you really this far gone in the head? I pointed one thing that the government did, and asked people if they wanted to sign away their rights and the rights of others, to the same government? surely thats not too far of a stretch for you to understand? Where did I state that the two situation were interdependent?
Francis, I read that. The opening paragraph was, “Since the advent of DNA testing, it’s solved cold cases, connected crimes committed in different jurisdictions and even freed innocent men from death row. Genetic fingerprinting has in many ways revolutionized forensic science and is often the best weapon in an investigator’s arsenal.”
Ah little bit if scary scary going on. Here’s what actually happens in reality. *A crime occurs, a person is suspected of the crime and DNA is taken. The case goes to court and A) the person is acquitted, B) found guilty.
A) your solicitor applies to Gardai for your DNA to be removed from the database. This is your right and entitlement.
B) your DNA stays on file for a specified period of time (crime dependant)
*This is what happens in real life with fingerprints. DNA will be no different.
not in the UK… once your on the database, you stay on it.. there was a case of this in the last few years,,
Maurice. 6 million on the UK database already and a further 30,000 added every month. Anyone arrested or detained at a cop station is added. No need for charges or convictions.
But you may also be voluntarily adding other peoples DNA Mattoid because DNA is inherited, the database can also be used to indirectly identify many others in the population related to a database subject
edit -”But you may also be voluntarily adding other peoples DNA Mattoid” scratch that bit. the rest is fine.
If the people oppose a DNA database then criminals will remain free who otherwise would be caught including rapists and murderers who can then go on to rape and murder again. Maybe your wife or daughter. On the other hand the DNA database can not be used for any purpose other than catching criminals. Why would anyone logically oppose that? I suspect that many people above are a bit are paranoid. DNA databases is just data like your name and address or PRSI number, it’s not magic.
OK, Who changed my sentence from “I suspect that many people above are a bit paranoid.” to “I suspect that many people above are a bit are paranoid.”?
What you mean there Sir?
Yes Mattoid but it might also fit you up for a crime you didn’t do :)
“Mistakes may happen” and the fly over this weekend of the Airbus 380 might land on your house. Shit happens. We can’t not do something because of a remote possibility of “mistakes might happen”. maybe aliens will steal the database and build a new Earth with only criminals DNA. :(((
@Franco
If ‘they’ wanted to fit me up for a crime I didn’t do I’m sure they’d be quite capable of doing it with or without DNA.
@Maurice
Well if you weren’t trying to suggest some sort of relevant link why mention it at all – this thread is about DNA not school and hospital closures :-)
I know I have a decent Daddy out there somewhere !!!
Should have fingerprints and DNA all on file
I’m not worried, they can take my DNA if it helps them set up there database
I’m not committing any crimes so why should I care??
How about putting a micro chip inside you. So you can be tracked?
Ye that might be next thing they want hope we won’t be charge for it laugh out loud
It’s going to be an extra tax under the Broadcast Tax, Laurie !
I have no problem with my fingerprints being on file voluntarily ; but I have a major, major problem with D.N.A. ;MAJOR !
Then again with my fingerprints being on file , there is always a possibility of planting of evidence , so actually in principle yes to fingerprints , but not in actuality there is too long a history of crooked cops in all lands ; look at Hillsborough !
No offence Gardai but Donegal did happen ; a tiny few but still………..
What if you happen to pass through a location that later becomes a crime scene and the murder was clever enough not to leave DNA everywhere?
One can do a course now in this little green isle that teaches one how not to leave D.N.A. at a crime scene ,and the authorities know this , so why this law now ?
If we could trust our government and police force, I’d be all for this. Unfortunately we’ve a long way to go in that aspect. Too many people in power are corrupt!
Dermot
What an irrational rant in which you publicly expose a sense of dithering. ThenState currently holds a huge cache of data on each of its citizens from addresses to photographs where driving licenses or passports are issued right down to highly personal information if we have ever been a customer of the Health Services or the Department if Social Protection!
A DNA database would very definitely speed up detection rates in serious crimes and in so doing could realistically prevent others and your preference is for the perpetrators to be at large to commit more!
Yes…..I think I understand the meaning behind your post….
@Dermot
Why the huge ethical problem with a DNA database but not a fingerprint database?
One is really just a high-tech version of the other.
Genuine question.
A lot more reliable than fingerprints too.
As you are a regular supporter of this Government Richie ; I do not weigh your assessment of the word “rant” highly ; in fact not at all , So thanks for the unintended compliment !
“I think I understand ” ; you reveal the very essence of your assessment capabilities in this phrase:, very Freudian ………
Mattoid ; we are only at the very genesis of D.N.A. technology , look at what is being done with the mammoth ; look at chemical weapons , how long before genetic weapons ; I know it’s a bit Sci fi but science is running ahead of morals I think so it needs to slow down .
If our authorities displayed a history of a mutual beneficial outlook ,and I could therefore trust their ethics I would gladly give my D.N.A. no probs , but then again if I was charged with committing a crime regardless of the severity then I would plead honestly, so my D.N.A. is not required by the State.
Like all new law it has excellent principles if used properly ; history teaches that the law is rarely used properly ,therefore all new law should be treated suspiciously.
Why not Polygraphs ; now there’s a question ?
Richie; the post to Mattoid above deals with the substantive point you raised I think , my previous post to you was acerbic because you used the word “rant” as opposed to the word “opinion” which is all it is and is something that I will always retain the right to change ; it’s called free will !
Dermot
Your response to Mattoid is all we need to understand how you think and argue. Scientific development needs to slow down until our ethics and public morality catch up? Oh dear . Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
Who’s “we” Richie ? Another Freudian Richie ,
Do you need others to think for yourself , or do you just presume that you have the right to represent other’s views without their consent ?
I tend to speak for myself …oh dear, oh dear, oh dear !
Get a shovel Richie, it’s easier dig with a shovel !
Polygraphs deal with that one Richie ;are politicians afraid of polygraphs ?
“Miaow”, said Leo the pudddy cat !
Dermot Ryan – what are you guilty of?
You seem very agitated about a sensible proposal.
Guilty of ;Nothing !
“Suspect ” is someone that is innocent until proven guilty ; a basic principle of law . I have no real problem with a “suspect” having a sample of their D.N.A. being taken following an assessment of all other evidence by a judge who could then provide a court order for same . If found guilty on D.N.A. evidence then database . If not found guilty then the D.N.A. sample should be destroyed.
Yes Rob I understand that there was a case, of a former soldier I think, that was convicted of a violent crime ; but I think (not sure feel free to correct) that was offered voluntarily.
now Bob Mc Bob , even though is not your real name I would wager, I profer you the same question (equality and all that) ;
What are you guilty of ?
Agitated ; I’m as cool as the breeze bob ; you may not Know this bob but the Law is based on a very simple foundation ;The principle of Truth ! Is this law honest ? Does it infringe on the constitutional right, an inalienable right, to bodily Integrity ? Are the opposition capable of debating it properly, will it be guillotined despite the fact that the current Government canvassed and are therefore bound by common law to eradicate the Guillotine ?
So Bob what are you guilty of ?
Are you guilty of being the other half of Richie’s “we” for example ? I hope not because that would smack of deceit ; A subject that former Judge Perrin knows all about !
Good job that ol crystal ball of yours works so well..You can tell us until the day you die you wont committ a crime???Can you give us the next six saturdays night numbers too while you are at it???
Dont be so sure what isnt a crime today is suddenly one tomrrow.
Simon I said that I would plead honestly, I’m not stupid enough to assume i will never commit a crime …… then gain mass was a crime in Ireland once and as we know from FR. TED now we can have extra masses if we think it will help.!
But seeing as you asked for the numbers ; 3, 5 ,17, 27, 38, 39.
now see there’s proof I can’t tell the future , and I can proove it next Saturday night;
Oh no I’ve just told the future ,
I’m beginning to sound like a politician !
Yeah, it’s for ‘serious crimes’ now, but there’s only a short step from that to everyone’s DNA being put on file. Not a fan of that really.
Exactly
“I “suspect” those glasses are not your Rob ; this is very serious ;D.N.A. please !”
If the state never put everyone’s fingerprints on file why should it now do so for DNA?
why indeed? welcome to 1984
I think you misunderstood me, I probably should have worded it better. My point is that the state never took everyone’s fingerprints, so why do people think that they are now going to start taking everyone’s DNA? Surely if this sort of database is a ‘slippery slope to 1984′ it would have started with fingerprints decades ago?
Sandbag; check out the new iphone and check out technological firms role with regard to Edward Snowden ;
now excuse me while I smile into my webcam ; “Hello boys and girls , how’s the weather in Langley today ..I’m too lazy to see if there’s anything stuck in my teeth send me an e-mail will you …. save me a walk to the sink !”
Taking prints from people who haven’t been incarcerated for something is a lot harder than taking a swab in the hospital. I’m not a tinfoil-hat brigade member by any stretch but I’m not thrilled about having my DNA on file somewhere.
Cost is the major factor way back when this idea was first mooted in the late 19th century,plus the space required to card everyones fingerprints would have been enormous. However today with computor and massive storage banks it would be a simple affair to do.But why bother,when you can use somones more unique DNA pattern and store billions of DNA patterns on a hard drive someplace for mere cents??
Seriously people, it is NOT going to be for everyone in the country, only those suspected of a serious crime (normally violent as that is when you get DNA evidence).
It IS like the fingerprint database, they do not have fingerprints of the entire nation. Have a look at this article which explains the policy (basically boils down to they can only hold fingerprints and DNA for 10 years if you have been arrested but not convicted, however if you have been convicted of a serious crime they can hold onto both indefinitely) http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/fingerprint-retention-policy-to-change-110661.html
The only people who should be afraid of this should be potential criminals. And how does this reduce anyone’s freedom? “Ah man the system gonna get us!” Yes, if your a suspect or criminal!
check out stem cell research dude !
Really? Corrupt Gardaí have in the past planted evidence to link innocent individuals to crimes. If this evidence was DNA based, it would greatly increase the chances of a conviction.
Have a look at this example where the ‘man’ tried to frame several innocent people in Donegal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Tribunal
And that has nothing to do with this system. If some people be they gardai or whoever are going to lie or place “evidence”, then theyare going to do that regardless of wether its DNA based or not. Any system that relies on honest people is already flawed.
And you want to hand over more power over the individual to that flawed system?
It works even better if you have unquestioning sheep willing to sell their personal freedom for more law and order and security…They deserve neither.
I’m sure the iphone7 will come with a DNA capture / saliva swab.
They release a handset that collects your fingerprints for the NSA to “acquire” in the future and the media pis*es itself like an excited dog.
I think to be a suspect is still to be innocent ; I fully support the D.N.A. database of those convicted , but a “suspect” , I’m afraid that is anti-constitutional , Mr. Shatter and the Attorney General should know this !
What are they teaching them up in Blackhall and King’s Inn ; is there a course !Stupid Law” or something ?
There should however be a facility or provision for a judge to allow weight, after all other evidence is heard, to a refusal by an accused to provide a D.N.A. sample !
“Be well John Spartan”. We’ll have the three seashells next!
They never did explain the three sea shells!
What’s the ACTUAL downside to any non criminal citizen as opposed to the daft fantasies of some of the posters above?
Why, because governments don’t go rogue on their citizens from time to time? Sure, that never happens!
If our Government went “rogue” , whatever that means, the DNA database would be the least of our problems. I suspect Colin you’re watching too many SF movies. I can’t see Enda or Jackie Healy Ray or even Michael Martin or EVEN Michal McDowell launching a fascist inspired coup d’etat.
… or cartoons.
It’s hard to debate when two people come from the opposite spectrum of right and wrong. I see it as fundamentally wrong that any government would interfere with the privacy of individuals without vey good cause. I don’t see any good cause for this. If serious criminals are profiled, then fine. The rest of the population has the right to go about their business unharnessed by government bureaucracy. It’s the same reason I wouldn’t allow a government webcam in my home. I have nothing to hide, but nobody has any business interfering with my privacy. If you have no problem with a DNA database to show what a compliant citizen you are, then fine. I’ll go to prison before I start letting these basic freedoms from harassment and nanny state supervision die out.
Well said Colin.
How is a secure database of DNA data “government … interfering with the privacy of individuals “? [I might add that anyone taking your beer glass away in a pub can get your DNA. Not to mention other more intimate actions.]
This rapists and murderers thing is designed to appeal to the emotions. The fact is that thereis no evidence that a DNA database of non criminals would result in a huge increase in convictions. If you have some kind of reference that validates that assumption, then please share it. The incidence of murder and rape by complete strangers is very low, and suspects in any case would be required to give DNA samples. I have no issue with this.
And if you don’t get the how DNA is the most fundamentally private thing (encoding a lot of health and ancestry information) or how someone taking my DNA from a pint glass would indeed be a violation of that privacy, then we are on different planets.
Colin, I would think you would get a bit emotional if your partner was raped and the rapist got away with it or it turned out that she was raped because the rapist wasn’t caught after committing a previous crime where he could have been caught..
There doesn’t need to be evidence. Many serious crimes result in DNA evidence being left at the scene. If that can be used to find the criminal via a database then more criminals would be caught. Furthermore DNA can be used to eliminate suspects meaning police can spend resources better.
Who said the DNA wasn’t stored in private? The database data that doesn’t supply a match to the criminal is ignored. There isn’t going to be some bent and deviant cop gawking at your innocent DNA. It’s just data. Locked away in a secret database. Not used unless you murder someone.
@William
“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither and will lose both.” -Benjamin Franklin
Nothing better than a quote from a long dead politician to clinch an argument. Can you give us any evidence of how Mr Franklin would vote on this issue, not that it’s very relevant? Did he understand the concept of a database? Did he oppose databases?
William, if you actually read what I wrote, I’m more than happy for those with previous convictions to have their DNA stored. It’s the compulsion to include people who have committed no crime that I have a problem with.
Your level of trust in the police for all time is charmingly naive.
DNA contains personal information that can’t be found in fingerprinting. As we speak scientists are researching it for all kinds of reasons. People will be able to see diseases in future from their DNA, if our DNA is in databases this gives other people insights into many areas of our lives, many not even discovered yet. Our DNA should not be in the hands of anyone except us, unless convicted of a serious crime.
Can you not foresee a time in the future where the potential for insurance companies etc could access that. I wouldn’t trust Government with my DNA any more than I trust it with my taxes.
And DNA can be used to eliminate suspects without the need for that DNA of the eliminated suspect to be stored in perpetuity.
Niall, you’re very naive and have an amazingly weird view of reality and are probably clinically paranoid if you think the government would give access to the DNA database to private companies to jack up your insurance. It’s illegal for starters under the Data Protection Act. The DPA is an EU demand. Data can only be used for the purpose it’s gathered.
And I think you’re naive William if you believe DNA databases will be free from misuse by Gardai, Government, hackers etc in the short or long term.
Can you not foresee a hacker sooner or later accessing it and switching samples etc?
Can you not foresee a time when it will be misused? If the NSA monitoring much of the US and EU’s communications {unless of course Snowden was dreaming} isn’t enough of a concern in itself, why do you think DNA databases will be off limits when the very same info could well be far more valuable to them and others.
No, I think you’re naive.
Nothing like a 21st century smartarse trying to deride as outdated wisdom from the past..
OK William,suppose somone like another Hitler emerges in Europe,quite possible,and he has a bee in his bonnett about “Irish wasters”.How nice for him that there is an international EUSSR DNA data base for him to go and get the ovens working again in Auschwitz and has a doddle of a job creating his new pure Aryan race free of Irish wasters.The Nazis managed quite nicely to off 6million people with a IBM adding machine and cross referencing national ID cards.Wonder how many they would have managed with a DNA database…
Here’s another quote from Mr Franklin,but according to you,what ther fuk would he know anyway???Apart from being a politican and statesman,he was an inventor scientist,publisher,farmer abourist,,gardner[ His estates in the US are today a marvel to see],some of his theories are still in use today in plant growing.Yeah a right dumbass by all accounts who wouldnt have a clue about DNA or understand it if explained.
“Consider not what great good and benefits new laws might bring,consider rather what great harm and mischeif they might cause the citizenry.”
Simon, Francolin knew nothing about databases or DNA and you don’t know what his opinion would be on them. You could also quote Einstein to claim the Quantum Mechanics was faulty, it isn’t.
If you think the existence of a comprehensive DNA database would be the major issue if another Hitler came to power, your judgement is seriously impaired. Furthermore I’ve no doubt that if there was such a threat the database could be moved or deleted.
Finally I don’t believe in the concept of “wisdom”, neither do I, nor the entire Scientific community, believe in proof from authority.
Playing on the public’s fear is a good way to reduce their freedom even more – look at USA post 9/11. Changes to the bill of rights allow for martial law to be enacted against their own citizens.
With the NSA using our information against us – you could say we are already stamped and marked.
Personally I think DNA should be recorded at birth, there are massive health benefits for this. For example advising people who are at risk of disease based on their DNA profile.
Planning healthcare resources based on the DNA profile of the local population.
Of course there are benefits for the criminal justice system but I do not see the risks in this or how people’s civil liberties are affected?
People argue that having an ID card is an infringement of their civil liberties yet we are all happy to have a passport or driver’s license – would it not be better to have just one and get rid of all the cost involved in maintaining separate ID systems.
Perhaps in the future DNA IDs could simplify this process.
A passport or a drivers licence is not required. A drivers license just shows you have demonstrated competency to drive, and a passport verifies your nationality if you wish to cross borders. Neither are required unless you want to drive or travel.
Good idea in principle but if someone is later found to be innocent then they should be removed again. Also what if someone is a chimera and has two sets of DNA in their body ? Rare but can happen
Catherine, yep. You’re right so because of a one in a billion chance lets dump the whole idea. Amazing logic there. You know of ANYTHING with no risk or chance of error in the entire Universe???
William where did I say dump the whole thing? I didn’t . I said it was a good idea in principle. I was posing the question about human chimeras . There was two high profile cases in the US regarding two women who were found to be chimeras. It can happen .
Far too much power for the government to have so it’s a no from me. I hope the Irish people will take the same principled stand that the British people took over Tony Blair’s ID cards.
It will of course be brought in for “serious crimes” first but it will then become the norm much like 60 odd government agencies use my PPS number even though only two agencies actually need to use it.
We also should bear in mind that “state of the art DNA evidence” wrongfully convicted Barri White for the murder of Rachel Manning when CCTV around Milton Keynes subsequently proved he didn’t have the opportunity to do it. Thus what use is this DNA database anyway.
I wouldn’t place any faith in a constitutional challenge as the government can bring it in via an EU directive.
Has Anyone seen Harry? Getting worried as he hasn’t been around. DNA could solve it, if he’s missing!!!!
I think that the van he was driving was parked on a clearway ; the case must have come up ; he’s in wheatfield is my guess ; singing the praises of John Waters !
Can someone from the No camp explain to me what bad thing you think can happen if they have a record of your DNA?
in the USA, the government has tried to obtain copyright over the publics individual DNA … why do they want that? they lost the case, but were awarded with being allowed to create a sythetic replica…. any own that on copyright … how screwed up is that? but laws that are passed today, are usually put in place for some other insipid use further down the line… google “agenda 21″ for loads of examples of this…
@Ronan well, because if you value your liberty, then you give only the minimum amount of your freedom away that is needed for your security. Don’t give power to centralised organisations whose instinct is to control control control, and build an army of bureaucracy to extend that control. There is no problem that they’re trying to solve here that a DNA database will solve. It’s like asking why we don’t have Garda checkpoints at every crossroads. After all, what would you have to fear unless you were a criminal?
Maurice I think you are incredibly overestimating the intelligence and far-sightedness of our Government although I am now a bit concerned about being replaced by a synthetic replica. Also I don’t think insipid means what you think it does.
Colin, having a record of DNA would be used to establish someone’s presence at the scene of a crime or otherwise based on biological material found there. Maybe to establish the identity of remains. That’s what it solves.
But how do I lose freedom by having it recorded? Its no different then having a record of the colour of my eyes or date of birth. It can’t be used against me in any way that I see. It’s also in no way comparable to having a Garda checkpoint on every corner. That would be a huge inconvenience and very costly.
Ronan, it only helps if a) there is DNA at the crime scene, and b) there are no known suspects from who a DNA sample can be taken. This is incredibly rare and in no way is DNA database of the whole population is a proportionate response to that.
Secondly DNA contains a lot of information about your health and ancestry which anyone with access to your DNA would be able to figure out very cheaply. The implications for health insurance is but one example. More sinister would be the potential for use in any eugenics program, which I admit is not an imminent issue, but once a DNA database exists, it exists in perpetuity. I’ll avoid Godwin’s law to point out that eugenics was carried out by civilised democratic governments as recently as the 70′s. I’m glad it’s a far off spectre for us today, but I see no good reason to provide any future administration with a brick in that wall.
A DNA database of serious criminals is a proportionate response to the issues you highlighted.
This should all be done at birth and an identity card issued containing all the relevant information. This could be updated throughout life to become birth certificate, driving license etc. Only criminals need worry.
Very short sighted.
Check out stem cell research ; they are proposing to resurrect the mammoth !
Your D.N.A. is just about the only unique thing about you bill , I don’t particularly want meet a younger me some day walking down the street , it would be like living Schizophrenia ………..ugh
Nah! Long sighted. The length of everyone’s life!
It wouldn’t be a younger you. It would be a new unique person who looked like you.
yes Bill but would it have a soul ? and would it not be a total insult to my parents and those who came before me ; besides I think to torture the world with another me would be just horrific !
Bill one further point ; bodily integrity was established in the Fluoride case in the fifties ; That mean I and I alone control my D.N.A. !
Thanks for the red thumbs on the “horrific” comment above I will take it that the general public would like more of me ;
This is an insight how to turn the negative ,with political or malevolent words, into a positive !
Freedom of opinion is a right of all so the colour of thumbs is irrelevant to me , it’s democracy !
Dermot
You and you alone control your DNA! Oops I think you may be on the wrong website. Help is available as soon as you need it but please hurry.
@Bill
“Only criminals need worry”
And as we all know the information will be safe and secure. That’s why Snowden is merely holidaying in Russia, Assange is merely redecorating the inside of the Equadorian embassy, and Chelsea is merely rehearsing for the spice girls next 30 years in a US prison.
Richie ; You are as ignorant of the law as my cat !
I would tell you to get advice from Mr. Shatter but he doesn’t know what the right to privacy is ; bladdering on about Mick Wallace’s seatbelt ,a clear attack on a person’s right to a good name and on such a public forum !Why id the Taoiseach not sack Mr. shatter for this blatant display of legal ignorance which is no excuse for either of the two !
Your contention above is a lie and this is proven by the destruction of the D.N.A. database that was collected and stored illegally ; I would not accuse you of lying unless I was absolutely sure that I was right !
What do you think of the illegal ! Harvesting of still-born babies without parents consent ; I suppose you think that was o.k too ;
Is Dr. Mengle a hero of yours Richie ?
Are you BEYOND help Richie ?
* baby’s organs …apologies !
Worked well in the 3rd Reich Bill..Think you would have liked it there.
Speaking of D,N,A ; James O’Reilly announced that the illegal D.N.A. bank taken from our children was destroyed , considering the historical trend of our politician’s inability of understanding of the true meaning of truth ; has htis been confirmed beyond all reasonable doubt and furthermore where is the compensation for those who had it taken illegally ?
Oh mixed feelings galore on this..so any conviction that can lead to a five year or more sentence will get you DNA in the system, “most” sexual crimes will, regardless of sentencing and now those “suspected” of serious crimes….Suspected, not convicted..Doors opening way too wide me thinks.Repeat offenders should be there, convicted violent crimes but beyond that the risk is the loss of liberty as this becomes the norm in our society. This is the natural progression, serious criminals, less serious and then the not at all serious, light hearted even, until we are all done..We are born a free people , what part of this tells us we are not? Yes this has the potential to be very good for society but all things equal, it carries the opposite as well. I shall put away my tin foil hat now and the copy of 1984 ..
Never take of the hat Anna; as Kurt Cobain said (more or less) “just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean the bastards aren’t after you ” …
The problem with this “data bank” is that it is open to abuse. Most right wing populists will say if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to fear, that is an illusion. We can see how Hogan and his cronies are abusing information that should be protected to collect taxes, which means that sensitive information on people is being passed on to people who do not have the relative security clearance; ie contractors in outsourced work…………I do not trust this government to act responsibly and judging by their performance I see no reason to change my mind.
For convicted sex offenders definitely. For convicted criminals of serious crime another definitely but to take DNA from “suspects” leaves the door open for serious abuse.
For those convicted of serious crime yes. For those suspected no. For crimes like non payment of fines/TV license etc no.
I would have no objection to shaving my DNA on record, or even having a microchip. But then- I don’t have anything to hide!
You should have a Garda posted in your living room. Or maybe a webcam that the government can use. After all, if you have nothing to hide, why would you object?
I wouldn’t- if he was young and good looking!
The system will ensure that he is not. He’ll just sit there….. Observing…… For your own good…. Nighty night.
and raiding your fridge too Brenda….
The microchip may be a step too far.
YET!!! Maybe in the future Brenda your comment about young good looking Gardai will be considerd a attempted solitication of Gardai for immoral purposes when you reach 95???
Why not Bill..Very convient and shure you have nothing to hide or fear…Right??? Make sure its implanted in your forehead or left hand as well.
Yes for convicted sex offenders, no for regular criminals.
Will such a “DNA database” provide the path to an Orwellian nightmare?
It is only a matter of time before such a database is abused by the State. Hence, I don’t believe that it is wise to give the State this sort of power.
The Libertarian in me says No. But the self preservationist in me says Yes. Perhaps for non citizens and convicted criminals.
Brilliantly succinct margaret as an assessment of the ethical question !
eh… margaret,margaret. Small in size Paddy brain :)
In this day and age, it almost goes without saying. You need to know who’s who.
It’s a good idea alright but I’d be worried about what other information they hold with the DNA. If it is solely DNA Info then it it’s a very good thing and can’t see it being misused by Gardai. DNA database should only be worry for sexual predators in society really
Corrupt Gardaí have in the past planted evidence to link innocent individuals to crimes. If this evidence was DNA based it would greatly increase the chances of a conviction.
Have a look at this example where the Gardaí tried to frame several innocent people in Donegal and succeeded in some cases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Tribunal
The DNA database is just an extension of a fingerprint database.
Would anyone seriously argue against a fingerprint database?
Fingerprints are difficult to duplicate, while DNA is constantly falling off us….you leave a DNA trail everywhere u go.
Fingerprints are an excellent proof with little probability of error, the person was there and touched something.
DNA is not, it simply says that the persons DNA was present at the scene, it does not indicate how it arrived there, and does not indicate the person was there in itself.
So as evidence in it has serious flaws, never mind the complications of contamination, and the probability nature of current comparison tests, never 100% certain.
Finally DNA has a variety of other uses, and a DNA database would be very valuable for a whole host of reasons, peoples personal genes can be copyrighted by corporations and personal protections for genetic information still has no legal framework.
DNA will be a very important and contentious issue in the near future, and giving away our personal genetic data is a mistake.
You do know that your prints can be lifted and used for scanners and whatnot.Using nothing more sophisticated than a Gummi bear sweet??
Also you know fingerprints can be obscured by simply spraying superglue or plastic burn skin on your palms or simply soaking them in WD40???
The British police have stitched up a lot of innocent people using the magic dna billion to one lie that accompanies dna.
Steve Wright convicted of five murders in Ipswich is just one high profile example of their cock up.
See the evidence here http://www.suffolkstrangler.com/home.htm
eh… margaret,margaret. Small in size Paddy brain :)
Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.
Why oh Why are We one of the last to get the DNA database? Same old muck from Civil liberties etc.
Yes provided there are severe safeguards to prevent DNA planting to frame suspects. Also only criminals should have their DNA collected.
I’d like to see a national healthcare research DNA Bio-Bank. Anonymous patient records linked to numbered samples. Opt in with consent of course. The scientific community needs this more than the guards.
Tracking down patients to get blood samples again months after they left hospital is a major pain…
If the cops get this database they should be willing to share it with researchers.
Classic Irish Conservatism from the looks of that poll
In theory this is a great idea that could benefit mankind no end but unfortunately mankind has a history of turning great ideas on their head and turning them into weapons of destruction. When I hear people talk about how great DNA databases would be I can’t help wondering how great hitler would find the same technology in his search for the master race. With the click if a button he could find out every person of Jewish decent, with another click he could find out who was a carrier of a certain disease. And with the click of another button wipe these people of the earth. I have every faith in the technology just none in the people who control it.
Anything that helps to prevent attacks on the rural OAP. is always welcome, so many Garda stations closed and no Garda cars for the garda ,Yes they should have the tools to protect the people . nothing to hide nothing to fear .
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