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DUBLIN CITY MANAGER Owen Keegan has said that the public private partnership (PPP) company behind the Poolbeg waste incinerator project may seek to recoup funds if the project doesn’t go ahead.
Speaking to the Oireachtas Environment Committee today, Keegan said that he “wouldn’t like to advise” the company behind the project but said that it is likely they would try and get some payback on their investment if the project was shut down:
It’s not a simple of method of just stopping. There’s a real possibility that the company might say that they have a argument that they had a legitimate expectation that this would go ahead.
The project has so far cost the taxpayer €96 million with just €4 million recouped by local government from the company behind it.
The rest of these funds would likely be lost if the project is shut down according to Keegan ,who argued that these could be recouped “over a long period” if it went ahead.
Keegan told the committee that the €96 million spent should be viewed in terms of the total budget of the project of €600 million, €500 million of which is slated to come form the PPP company.
If the project goes ahead, this would be sourced externally by the company with local authorities likely to pay only “about €4-5 million”.
Consultancy
In a submission sent to the committee, it was shown that the spend on consultancy fees for the process had increased from €8 million to over €30 million.
Keegan was not in the position of Dublin City Manager at the time but said that a decision was taken at the time not to break a contract with outside consultants. This decision in hindsight has proven to be wrong he said.
“I have no doubt that had we known that it would have gone on as long as it did then we would not have made that decision,” he said.
Delay
The original project board was formed back in 2004 but as yet no final decision has been made on whether the project will happen.
Keegan said today that the delays to the completion of the project were due to factors that “were largely outside of the control of the DCC”.
The DCC manager was asked straight out if he believed that the project would go ahead, “I don’t know”, was his response.
He said that the major obstacle to the project’s compaction is a challenge that has been submitted to the EU Commission which has been ongoing for three years.
A number of committee members outlined their criticism of the project with Sinn Féin’s Brian Stanley TD saying he is “very concerned” about the monies spent so far.
“€4 million has been recouped but the rest is being paid for by the public, and I don’t see any evidence of it on site, ” he said.
Fianna Fáil Senator Averil Power questioned whether the project could be compared to the money spent on electronic voting machines, asking if ”it had gone too far for people to admit they were wrong”.
The current CEO of Irish Water John Tierney was the Dublin City Manager from September 2006 to January 2013 and Labour TD Kevin Humphreys said that he would be seeking Tierney’s appearance to answer questions about the project.
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It’s a tragedy that despite all the years learning Irish in this country that the majority of people can’t speak the language. Ultimately I feel like it’s a failure by the education department. Instead of learning to actually speak the language we get caught up in grammar and poetry. Learn to speak it first then look at that stuff if you’re interested. We need to rethink the entire way it’s taught or recognise the fact that right now it is not our national language
Stop blaming others for your lack of knowledge. You have two ears and a mouth, go and learn how to speak it now.
i spent 3 months learning german(working in bavaria) and 5 years learning french and 12 years learning irish and i speak both french and german better than i speak irish. My daughter can speak german more confidently and at a better level than she can irish and shes been learning german for 3 years and irish for 8. Why is irish taught so incompetently?
He’s not blaming others. He’s making a valid point that we are thought Irish for 10 years in school as part of our curriculum and despite that rarely anyone speaks the language upon leaving. That’s pretty disgraceful and it must come down to how it is taught.
Padraic you come across as one of those Irish speaking zealots, who claim to have a superior moral and nationalistic claim because you can speak Irish, It is the Zealots who have had control of the language and destroyed it. school thought me to hate Irish, since the foundation of the state the teaching and promotion of Irish has been a spectacular failure driven by fanatics, I concur with everything Daniel said. The way we were taught French and Irish were complete opposites Learning more French in a few years than Irish in 14 years.
Well said Padraic! Too many people willing to blame the government or Dept of Education for their own shortcomings. Everyone got a similar level of schooling in this country, but most people find that, after the leaving cert, there are very few places where any knowledge of Irish is needed. So just like calculus, Shakespeare, and the effects of glacial erosion; most people forget everything that they learned & no longer have a requirement for. The problem is people… Not the system!
Thats a bad comment Padraic ….Hes actually making a good point in favour of Irish
ktsiwot: either you don’t understand what a zealot really is, or you’ve made some pretty dramatic assumptions about Padraic. All he said was that yer one could easily go & learn irish instead of moaning about it. That’s hardly a fanatical statement. (Wait, am I an English speaking zealot now that I’ve demonstrated a better understanding of the language than you???)
It hasn’t to do with the teaching of Irish per se. It has to do with the perceived possibility of using the language in the spoken arena, in a natural conversational setting. People learning French or German perceive the possibility of speaking the language in the natural setting. It is a shame that the pub owners don’t see the positive side of having willing Irish speakers. I’m sure if the bar had a French speaking member of staff speaking French to a French tourist then that member would not be told to not speak French because English is the business language of the pub. Anyway speaking one’s Irish language is a basic right. Imagine if an English speaking bar man in a Gaeltacht pub was instructed not to use English! Certainly if I spoke to a bar man as Gaeilge and he spoke back in Irish I would be very pleased.
There’s more that story than meets the eye.
Management was waiting for an opportunity to get rid of him.
It speaks volumes about his employers. in fact says more about management
than was originally intended.
Manager showed his colours – unfortunately he is in majority – remember our financial collapse
I agree with Dannielplainview
What I loved about learning Irish was that each year I had a different teacher. As they spoke different dialects with very strong accents I was constantly being told to pronounce words differently each year. Some teachers were extremely nasty about not speaking it their way and slagged off pupils for talking like a culchie or a jackenn
I learnt irish in school for 12 years and right now i can hardly speak any of it. Only recently have i tried to take it up because I think every Irishman should be able to speak to eachother through the language. But when you consider how much money is spent on promoting the language through education and TG4 etc. We are getting very poor value for money
I am ashamed as an Irishman I am unable to communicate in my native language. Due to the circumstances of the time I attend an left national school at an early age. My education was brought about by love of reading and getting involved in current issues. I resent your use of the word Zealot as it is my belief that the Irish language was deliberately destroyed by successive government policy of marginalizing the Irish language. Shame on us all for allowing this to happen
Thank you Dave.
síos leis an saghas rud
@ Jason Bourne : were you even “thought” (sic) English?
Serious question – but is this breaking the constitution with Irish being our first national language?
Not sure James Darcy, in my place of employment there are people from all over the world working there, there are signs up everywhere telling everyone ‘English is the spoken language of this company’, disciplinary procedures happen if you’re caught speaking your native tongue.
If you went to Wales , do you hear Welsh spoken that much in pubs or Scottish in Scotland?? Just saying like!! Guaranteed most people that come into the flying enterprise can’t speak Irish anyway !!!
In retail and on the shop floor staff must speak English but the fact that they were speaking our own language ( whether we can speak it or not ) means that they or he shouldn’t have been pulled up on it . The owners are treating this like its a foreign language , which is just so wrong …
If you went to Wales, Scotland or any other foreign country would you complain about staff conversing in their native language???
@Dave O’Mahony
My daughter started school last week. My Irish is extremely poor and was looking forward to the journey of working with her so that I could improve my own proficiency.
Enter the snobby Irish educational system.
To my shock, I discovered her junior infants book is completely in Irish! No english translations. No phonetic conversion to help us on our way. Nope. Just snobby Irish, and you must learn it their way or the highway!
I can speak two foreign languages. Self thought I might add. All adult learning books tend to have:
1. the target language (the new one you are trying to learn)
2. a translation in your own language (so your brain can relate it to something it already knows)
3. a phonetic spelling of the new word and/or phrase (so anyone can take a stab at speaking it, as some learn better that way)
But no, not Irish. Unless you’re at school teacher level, forget about
it! It’s become a language for snobs and zealots. Such a pity really as most Irish people have a yearning to learn it.
No it isint. The constitutional guarantee only applies to public bodies and your interaction with the state and its organs, nor do the language acts as they again only apply to the public bodies. English only policies are legal and were upheld recently in the equality court.
The journal did a piece on it where polish workers in McDonalds sued because they had to speak English. No case to answer no discrimination and thus policy was upheld. If you give good reasons you can mandate a business language policy within an organisation.
But if the customers can’t understand you why use the language? You are no good to the employer !
As a German who is learning Irish, I ask you: Would I be a zealot, if I expect people to learn German in my country? Probably not, because German is our national language. Same should apply to Irish. It is the FIRST official language according to the constitution.
I agree with you that especially at the time of the Free State the Irish language was taught by religious fanatics who created a mess instead of helping to reintroduce Irish. On the other hand many people in Ireland seem to forget that it’s English who is the foreign language.
Brent, did you mean to write self-taught? Reading and speaking a language without translations is probably one of the most efficient methods of learning.
Yes. Thinking faster than i type here. Self-taught.
The point i’m trying to make is that there are different modes of learning. More ways, and often better ways than the rigid one way of the Irish Educational system.
I have only encountered a handful of people that have learned well without translations. If you are in the environment such as a new country, yes, that way is better. If some one can pick up a cup and tell you the word in the new language, your brain can associate the image of the cup, to hearing the new word, to english version already stored in your brain. It’s a good method of learning. However, this method is not really practical in a classroom setting. Or for sending kids home to parents to help when the parents dont know themselves!
If you are learning a language, almost entirely, from a book, you need translations and pronunciations to make up for the lack of a “real environment”. Irish, in the main, is learned from a book. A teacher may run through the pronunciation in class, but what happens when the child comes home? “Daddy, what does that say?” “Sorry, do not know” Or “Daddy, how do I pronounce that word?”…..
Longshanks would be proud . Irishman with connection to the country and ancestral history of his birthplace and habitat gets chastised by man with Irish accent with ancestral connection to an invading imperial force . Up the pale . They know where them from around those parts.
Name any other country where you get berated for speaking your national language and turn down 13 billion euro in one week. The Republic of Serfdom. Great place for mice. Aww insulted. Truth hurts.
Interestingly, my daughter did French and German all through school and pursued both at university – Joint Honours, with Distinction in Spoken French.
Whilst travelling in South America she attended Spanish lessons and, although only lasting a few months, she was competent enough to speak and understand it more than adequately.
She seems to be a natural linguist but . . .
She says she prefers the grammar-based approach to mastering any new language.
Language Nazi.
Some students are brilliant at Irish, of course the all Irish schools are a great help. It certainly is an inditement on the system that the mainstream students, at least very many of them , are unable co converse after spending from 5 years to about 18 years at it, I believe if they concentrated on just speaking it and later get the grammar correct it would be successful.
In our school the teacher sends home a translation for us ..
Thats brilliant Suzie. A start at least.
I remember the calculus, a bit of Shakespeare and also the effects of glacial erosion. I also remember, in national school (1980s), that we were physically punished for making mistakes in Irish and only in Irish. Punishment for other transgressions was not prima facie physical, we got extra Irish homework! I hated that language for years, and feel cheated out of a part of our birthright. Watching the Nuacht now and not a notion what’s being said.
Brent .. it does help a fair bit .. a few of the parents got together and mentioned it to her .
When you think how much money is spent on teaching English….. all that Shakespeare rubbish … etc .. and the amounts spent on the English language service of RTE …. all thst Tubridy, Finnucane, Pat Kenny stuff …. what a waste of money. I say let’s spend more better on our own language and culture. We can get English language TV from England perhaps
The man in question was interviewed on radio today. I believe he was using it only with those who understood it and could, or wished to, converse with him in it. One assumes he used English with those who spoke to him in that language.
Excellent comment . Imagine going to a evening course to learn french and the teacher said.
1. Most of the course will be dealing with french poetry and prose.
2. from next week , i will be speaking to you in french
3. as you will see, your textbook is in French
4. if we get some time, we will speak some french but most of our time will be taking up with grammar
I believe the teaching of irish should be privatized , with a basic fee and a bonus fee for each fluent student. For sure, they would not be teaching Irish as it is now been taught
Hey, danielplainview, you could make it relevant by speaking it outside school. Like in pubs.
Unless they are racist and ban you from speaking your own language in your own country. Nobody is that stupid or bigoted these these of course. Right, The Flying Enterprise? I mean that would be nuts. A pub where people are go to talk, like visitors to Cork from other countries who won’t be allowed to speak anything except English.
Mad.
The No Foreigners or Natives Pub
Dheara, deireann dul isteach ann, le uisce amháin a cheannach is Gaeilge amháin a labhairt. iad ag iarraidh Gaeilge a choinneáil amach? Tóg isteach í. Go láidir le bród.
Immersion is great.
Try it.
Tum isteach.
Fiú sa phub.
Sehr Heehrter Hismet – but that’s the problem. The only place Irish is ‘first’ is in the constitution. In real life, even historically, English is (literally) our mother tongue. Mit freundlichen grussen, ….
The Padraics and Daves are the ones who ruin it.
Most attempts to speak Irish by non-natives is met with derision by the over possessive native speakers.
Probably something to do with the ludicrous amount of gaelgóirí jobs invented by successive governments to buy votes. The translation of EU documentation being a prime example
The whole point here is that English is the spoken language in this place of work, I say fair play to the manager. Sounds like a bit of a gob shite to me , he had to be told the second day. It’s not fair on other staff that don’t speak the lingo, as anything could be said . It’s quiet Rude.
If it helps, Brent, focloir.ie has pronunciations as well as an English to Irish searchbox. And Potafocal.com is a good website for learners.
Irish is not used outside the classroom, just like Latin. If you want a language to live it has to be spoken by a large number of people, emigration has ensured that it will only be used in the Dail or on roadsigns. It was a waste of school time grappling with it for years.
I have learnt more Irish off the duo lingo app then I did in 12 years at school.
I had taught that 2 that we can speak English or Irish as they are the official language of the country
Go learn it now then and stop being a victim! Man up Mary!
Of course. Unless one is learning through immersion there must always be some glossary with translations and a basic pronunciation guide. Certainly at infant level. Most people cannot send kids to Irish medium schools.Therefore they are learning a target language. As in French , German etc. But not , alas , in Irish. Hence the grind schools….
It is quiet rude Alan Williams? Is English your first language?
Read the article before you comment
Well said Hismet
Indeed, I learnt French for 5 years but I have forgotten it due to lack of use. Who do I blame? No one but myself. Use it or lose it.. Take responsibility for your own laziness.
I’m curious Fergal McDonagh, how are Padraic & I “the ones who ruin it”? I’ve re-read all the posts from both of us (a few times now) & the only things we’re ruining is people’s illusions that their lack of effort is automatically someone else’s fault.
The bottom line of what we both said was that the responsibility of speaking the Irish language outside of school lies with people, not the school. Neither of us said a bad word about the Irish language, more about the laziness of people who need to blame others for their own shortcomings. I personally lament my own inability to speak Irish as fluently as I did when I was 12, but I am the only person to blame for that. When entering secondary school, my focus shifted to learning new subjects (e.g. French & science) from the ground up. Irish took a back seat, as I thought I my level of fluency wouldn’t decrease so it wouldn’t need as much attention. By the time the Leaving cert came around, I had to drop down from Higher level because I hadn’t been putting in the work.
Incidentally, my fluency in French has dropped dramatically since I did the leaving (I used to be quite good) so now it’s on par with my level of Irish. I rarely have need for either language so I rarely practice. Obviously it would be fantastic if every Irish person were bilingual, but the reality is that we’re not. My point (and I think Padraic’s point as well) is that anyone who wants to be able to re-learn Irish needs to get off their backside and do it, instead of just moaning about it.
What sort of Irish person would be offended by his own native language , in Ireland. We are in Ireland. Irish gets a pass. It’s up to him in the end but it only makes the place look ridiculous.
“What sort of Irish person would be offended?” A “new Irish” person who has been told that the businesses policy is English only. Some Eastern Europeans, for example (not intending to ‘pick’ on them only), got themselves a bad reputation by speaking in their own tongue disparagingly about customers and other staff members. Having the english only rule put a stop to that.
Although, an Irish exemption should be allowed :D
I am a “New Irish” and I probably know more Irish history than many, I can even sign Amhrán na bhFiann a capella. I’m not Eastern European, but I think its just wrong to start blaming others for the failures which has been here long before there were “New Irish” I don’t know about the rest but I think its unacceptable that a young Irish man is told not to speak Irish to his co-worker. If it would be another language I would be supportive of it, because there has to be integration, but Irish doesn’t even need a pass because its an official Language. I’m not offended if someone is allowed to speak Irish and I’m not allowed to speak Spanish at work. Irish is an official language, Spanish isn’t and I am sure Polish people and other groups would understand it and even embrace it since I personally think that We should do everything in our power to preserve the Irish Language.
Go díreach.
Is bheadh siad iomlán as bealach.
Ná glac le ciníochas aon áit.
Míle maith agat, Juan.
Ayuda mucho ♥ é sin a chloisteáil.
What?
Fair play to Cormac for going public with this. This is the Irish language – not Polish, French, Chinese or anything else.
Maybe our culture and heritage would be in a better position than it is today, were it not for anglophiles like O’Shea in various positions of authority over the years.
There are many work places with an English only rules because of the different nationalities working there. People would feel a bit paranoid if two Polish workers were having a conversation in Polish in a fastfood place. It’s nothing to do with the language. But I do lament that I can’t speak it better though.
Why would it matter if it was Polish, French, Chinese or anything else?
@ Phil Polish, French and Chinese are native languages of other countries, not Ireland, where this has happened. Irish is the native language of Ireland.
It’s bemusing that you had to explain that to him Alan.
Maybe you want to have a look at Deborah’s comment…
Phil is right to ask the question because it’s covering deeper matters: is a company expected to tell us how to speak now? why would people feel paranoid only by hearing a different language? what’s that need for homogeneous people wearing the same thing, saying the same thing, feeling the same thing, etc.?
“Polish, French and Chinese are native languages of other countries, not Ireland, where this has happened. Irish is the native language of Ireland.”
Yes, Alan, I am aware of that. But it doesn’t address the reason given by the bar, they state that it is not about the Irish Language, but about communication with customers who were uncomfortable with others speaking in a language they couldn’t understand – which woudl also presumably be the case with Polish, French and Chinese.
“It’s bemusing that you had to explain that to him Alan.”
It is unsurprising you didn’t understand why I was asking.
You’re in for it now Piotrek.
Prouesse f, “the perpetually offended”, has just joined the conversation.
It has everything to do with the language and exceptionalism and racism and paranoia that is wrong and dangerous. Ní haon ionadh gur vótáil daoine ► Brimeacht má tá siad chomh xenophobic sin. Monolingualism can be cured. Start teaching British history right including the crimes of Empire and the exceptionalism may crumble.
If anyone saw how Cork fawned all over Queen Elizabeth then this shouldn’t come as a surprise, IMO.
Tá sé á labhairt an chuid is mó i gCorcaigh agus i gCiarraí .
Michael Collins split the country and changed the face lrish and British relations and politics. One could see how he could be termed a traitor.
Roy Keane didn’t play a few football matches. Only a muppet or whatever the collective term is for a group or muppets would see that as an act of a traitor.
Jesus Christ (-_-)
Beachmaster.. anyone who dared voice opposition was called a “shinner” and told to move on from the past.
Ah, the comments I was responding to were deleted. Well done Journal for deleting juvenile drivel
What about other Europeans speaking their languages while working in Ireland, always happens and nothing ever done !
Cork people did not get to dine with her as did her old enemy Martin McGuinness; then again, she pays him and SF well in her own lovely shillings! Cork people are naturally generous and welcoming- and the Queen did not have to pay them for their kindness,
Boycott the place
That would soon soften his sh!te
+ 1
The Flying Enterprise is a despicable establishment, my sister worked there for a few months and was bullied out of the place because the other staff members and managers were utterly nasty to her, It’s a family owned business.
I think boycotting is a futile exercise because people who like to drink in a particular pub will continue to do so in any case, as is their right. It’s also people’s right to hate the Irish language if they wish, whatever one might think of that as a strange attitude towards a major and important part of our National heritage.
As far as “having the sh*te beaten out of him at school”, I had this delightful experience myself on a couple of occasions. Nor for Irish though – it was for English and Maths.
But I am a bit puzzled; Irish is an official language (in fact, constitutionally, it’s still the premier official language) of Ireland. So, are customers in this place permitted to speak in Irish – as is their constitutional right, like it or not? Would a customer be refused service for ordering a pint (for example) in Irish – as is their right?
At the end of the day, it would have been interesting, if not indeed useful, to have this man’s case argued before the Employment Appeals Tribunal, just to have a pint established (sorry, “point”)
I’ve had friends work in the Flying Enterprise over the years and they all got on fine. However as you said it’s a family owned and run business. I’ve worked for a few such businesses over the years and I’m glad I don’t any more. Family run business are weird to work for as you have to deal with all the family politics on top of all the work politics. As a staff member you always be an “outsider” to the family and they’ll never fully trust you.
Order you tipple in Irish just to get a message across.
I would have thought that everyone in the Flying Enterprise was equipped with universal translators.
Cliste.
Aistear na Réalt abú.
Boycott this pub
Why because the owner wants his staff to speak the language of 99% of the population ?
He doesn’t allow the official language of the country. It’s like banning a French man from speaking French in a Paris office.
No, because he’s a gowl.
It’s not really like that at all as the majority of the population can’t understand the slightest bit of Irish (unfortunately). Put yourself in the position of a new member of staff whom may be from abroad. They come in hear 2 other members of staff speaking Irish and is not able to integrate by joining in the conversation. It could lead also lead to paranoia (are they talking about me etc. ) It’s a sensible policy to insist that English is the only language used in the place of work. I wish it was different and more people spoke Irish but that’s not happening any time soon.
Correction he requested staff speak in the native tongue of Ireland i.e English.
Irish language has not been native in the majority of this country in hundreds of years.
The only mention of it is a constitutional protection that has very limited legal affect and is mostly confined to the justice system and converting massive amounts of documents to Irish.
From the states point of view “Irish” is a native language in a “constitutional sense” however to a private business holder they can do what ever the hell they want and so should it be.
Liberty over state interventionism I say. If he doesn’t like it (which he clearly doesn’t) he can leave his job ( which he clearly did) and he can work in a bar that facilitates a language spoken by less people than polish nationals.
dar.iam: as a member of staff (different establishment) who is from abroad I would like it very much if workforce at my place used Irish. At the end, it is the original language of this country, and it would help me when my little one reaches the age of doing Irish at school.
It isn’t the original language either. There were people in Ireland for about 6500 years before the johnny-come-lately Celts got here.
Of course there were languages before Irish, but I think we all got the point I was making. Maybe all population of Europe used to speak some sort of proto-Bask, but that’s a question for prehistory.
The point of people saying that it is the “original language” is that it has some sort of special place. But I don’t buy that. It wasn’t handed down to the nation on Croagh Patrick on tablets of stone. It’s just that it was part of the furniture for a while. If people want to speak it, they’re welcome to go for it, but they’re not going to tell me that it’s somehow my language or that I’m a traitor for wanting nothing to do with it. That is BS.
Don’t excuse the paranoia. Xenophobia is unhealthy. Racism is plain wrong.
Ní bheidh Gaeilge aon áit má tá cosc uirthi.
Seo ciníochas.
Glaoigh amach é.
David unlike France where everyone speaks the language, Irish is only spoken in school.
The fanatics that tried to force it down kids throats and a government whose policy was to
fail candidate doing their Leaving Cert unless they passed Irish made sure it was hated by
most kids. For me it was a waste of 12 years, never spoke a word of it. Would have been better
to have studied French or German.
If a native gaelic speaker came to work for me I’d probably try to use it as an opportunity to relearn and speak a bit of the native tongue myself.
And use it to target another area of the population
Maith an fear Cormac, bhí tú ceart agus bhí an úinéir bodalán!
Translate please…
Good man Corman, you were right and the owner is a wänker
@John Moylan:
With all due respect to Proinsias Ó Foghlú, I have never come across “bodalán” until now, and I of course looked it up:
<>
Maybe it’s Donegal Irish.
An approximate translation might be: “Good man, Cormac, you were right and the owner was a big ungainly person (or, indeed, sea slug)”
I myself would have written “bodach ab ea an únaér” , being more familiar with “bodach” which means “an ignoramus” and preferring the conventional Irish language formation which places the description before the subject.
Hope this helps
Bodalán = arsehole.
Dé chúis? Nach bhfuil cead againn Gaeilge a úsáid gan aistrúcháin a chur ar fáil duit?
@Proinsias
Míle bhuiochais!
An-deas a fheiceáil go bhfuil daoine ag foghlaim teanga úsáideach nár mhúin siad dúinn ar scoil anseo. Anois, ar aghaidh linn go dtí an pub leis na focail nua seo a chleachtadh.
Yes translate
Yep. Ní chuireann siad aistriúcháin ar an mBéarla ann dúinn.
Go raibh math agat, Tuskar, bhí mé ag lorg an focal sin tar éis an méid atá scríobhta anseo ….
Iontach! Sár-fhocal!! Ceann eile go bhfuil gean ar leith agam dó: “magairle” (boll*x).
The owner probably had seven shades of sh**e beaten out of him at school for not being able to demonstrate correct use of the modh choníollach, so has a permanent chip on his shoulder about use of our first language.
You spelt Mo Kinnelack wrong there
First language my arse. English is the first language if the vast majority of people on this island.
*of
Of.*
I agree thomas it’s the truth that a lot of people don’t want to hear
I had this experience myself, but not for Irish which I was fairly good at – it was for English and Maths. Pupils were regularly whacked for getting sums wrong for instance.
Th Constitution says otherwise, like it or not.
In the real world, English is by far the most common spoken language in this country, it may not be in a constitutional sense however in reality it is, this tread is in English anyone who disagrees with this fact does not live in the real world.
That must be parody, right?
Defo Sarah, just stating the plain facts. I think Irish is a beautiful, unique language , but I’m not into this whole deluding ourselves thing that it’s our first language or that anyone other than a small percentage of the population can actually speak it with any degree of proficiency. It’s a farce that distracts from the real problem; how the language is taught and promoted.
Thomas, whether people like it or not, the first language of our state is Irish, as stated in the constitution.
AIRTEAGAL 8
1 Ós í an Ghaeilge an teanga náisiúnta is í an phríomhtheanga oifigiúil í.
2 Glactar leis an Sacs-Bhéarla mar theanga oifigiúil eile.
ARTICLE 8
1 The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.
2 The English language is recognised as a second official language.
I agree it has been taught atrociously, however, hence most people prefer to speak English on a day to day basis.
Hopefully apps such as Duolingo might change how people view learning it.
I dont care what the constitution says, English is the first language of the vast majority of irish people in practical terms and you’re deluded if you think otherwise. Also most people don’t “prefer” to speak English, lol, they can’t speak Irish properly so they have no choice. Get real.
Duh, I know most people speak English. You’re missing the point, which is that Irish is our official first language and if zealots like yourself had their way, we would lose our cultural identity altogether.
Who is stopping anybody learning or speaking Irish? It seems to me that many of the people who go on about it don’t actually speak Irish and can’t be bothered to learn it!
You’re missing the point moron, calling Irish our first language is farcical when only a small proportion of the country can actually speak it with any fluency. You’re the zealot as you wish to continue with your moronic delusion in spite of the plain truth.
No delusion here mate, simply a statement of fact that our official first state language is Irish, as defined by Bunreacht na hÉireann (that’s “Constitution of Ireland” for the West Brits among you who would rather see our language die just because they don’t speak it, despite plenty of interest in preserving it.)
And as for ad hominem attacks? Name calling? Really?
(Ad hominem is a Latin phrase by the way – another language that was killed off.)
And in practical terms Irish being our first official language means absolutely jack sh!t and they should amend the constitution to reflect that. Oh God, you used the term West Brit, I see what class of muck savage I’m dealing with now.
You don’t know Jack, mate. Good luck killing our heritage…
You’re an idiot. I never once said Irish shouldn’t be preserved and promoted ya stupid turf muncher.
Wow, more name calling. You like to have the last word, don’t you? And you lack class with that sort of behaviour. You’re also making a lot of assumptions about me too – as if I give two hoots.
I never said that you said it shouldn’t be preserved and promoted. The alacrity with which you dismiss Irish as our official first language says it for you.
ps
Grow up, and cut out the name calling. It makes you look silly.
Can’t see the issue here. One rule for everyone be it Polish, Irish or whoever.
It’s the official language of the state. Every legal document has to be supplied in both Irish and English. The manager is an idiot.
The manager may be an idiot David, but it is his call afterall. The Kerry lad needs to cop himself on…..
If people start boycotting the place, the owner of the building wouldn’t be long clearing the manager…
Every Legal document originating from the state must come in either the Irish language or English. That does not apply to private parties.
Seriously read a book.
I don`t think most fair minded people would agree that Polish be given the same status as Irish, unless that is, you want to hand the place over to them entirely.
I wonder did the manager do the job interview in Irish……. Unlikely!
I cannot understand that this man did not take action for harassment or constructive dismissal. He probably would have got on very well at an unfair dismissal hearing. Think about it lad.
Compo culture alive and well!!
He chose to leave, he wasn’t asked to leave.
No, nothing to do with compo. It appears that this guy was bullied, a pity that he didn’t stand his ground, speak Gaeilge if he wished and if people wanted to speak it to him. Owners of business as well as management must show respect. Gaeilge is a language , he was not abusing anyone, he is perfectly entitled to speak it if he so wished. He was hardly talking to himself, there were people in and out of there that was willing to speak our native language.
He walked out with a snot on – or in a “huffa mór”. Trouble maker most business’s have one.
Eugene personally I would like if our national language was spoken and understood all over the country. The fact of the matter is that it is not and if the owner felt that this was having a negative effect on his business well then he is perfectly entitled to address the issue. If this clown chose to disobey a request from the man that pays his wages well then one of them had to go.
If that case had got to an Enquiry , then I think the pub would loose out. Anyway, that young man has done some good by speaking out even at this stage. I’m sure he is doing far better for himself now.
Eugene> There is absolutely no indication of bullying. People of all nationalities and languages are often told to only speak one language in work. Normal working practice for millions of people. One of the reasons is precisely to prevent bullying and people saying nasty things about each other with only some people knowing what is said. Staff must show respect to other members of staff.
It’s called constructive dismissal
He still could, constructive dismissal. Look it up.
It’s a shame that in cases like this that the first things people think about is compo dollar signs but unfortunately Ireland is a world leader for this. The owner made a statement saying this guys behaviour was making other staff members uncomfortable so he decided to take action as he obliged to do. So quite the opposite Eugene maybe an enquiry would applaud a responsible manager for looking after the welfare of all his employees.
Kenny, it’s not compo but a penalty that people are calling for . A penalty to a business is a financial pay out
True; often found in a position more senior to one’s own.
Unless it was in the terms and conditions of employment – and that may not be legal due to the fact that Irish is an official language of this country – it seems as if he would have a good case for constructive dismissal.
Kenny, Eugene is Fianna Fail man. His party is responsible for a lot, including the teaching of Irish in schools since the foundation of the State, which has been a disaster. Ironic given the amount of school teachers that are members of Fianna Fail. They even decided that Irish history would no longer be taught as a subject to Irish kids, unless the opted for history during the leaving cert back in the 1970′s.
No surprise that the first thing the Fianna Fail man thought of in this case, was the money!
Politics has nothing to do with an employee being bullied over his use of Gaeilge. What kind of a Clawhopper are ya, coming up with that cock and bull story about Irish history?.
@Kenny O Reilly:
If the manager told him not to serve itinerants should he obey him.
Guy gets told what to do in work by boss … remarkable
Compulsory Irish engenders hatred perhaps antipathy and apathy. Then again I loved it so what do I know. The weird thing is I’ve yet to meet a tourist in Ireland who doesn’t like to hear a cúpla focal. If anything I would have thought that a couple of ‘cainteoir’ would have added a bit of colour around the place. Often Irish people complain that they can’t speak Irish after leaving school, this is a terrible shame and was my experience as well. I decided that I would study though and go to the adult summer classes in the Gaeltacht (or what’s left of it that is). I encountered many tourists there who did struggle with the language but Irish people seemed to thrive as in fairness despite what many think they do actually have a great basis in it. So many choices there, ignore it, embrace it, support if, let it flourish.
No, being unable to speak the language in any sort of fluent manner, after “learning” it for 12+ years, engenders feelings of inadequacy which then leads to a misplaced hostility towards the language itself. The vast, vast majority of people simply cannot learn a language from books and blackboards, they have to conversationally speak it every day for sustained periods in order to attain fluency.
People who go to Gaelscoils attain fluency and even if they rarely speak it after they leave school they can still understand the language on TV and radio. With practice, such people will always regain fluency fairly quickly, even after years of hardly speaking the Language.
I love the Irish language but I think the manager was totally in the right in this case. In retail one language has to be spoken and that’s the one understood by most. I worked with a lot of polish people and they got in serious trouble for using their own language all the time even though they were just talking amongst themselves. The issue is it makes others feel excluded. Doesn’t matter what the language, if it’s not widely understood then it’s rude to use it in company. I know there will be loads of nationalists on saying it’s our national language but the fact of the matter is it’s not any longer. It’s not widely spoken and therefore not the national language.
Paula well said. I’ve just listened to that chap and if he wants to speak Irish on his own time that’s fine. But really he’s not very convincing in his argument. It seems he wasn’t available for work so he left the company with no choice but to let him go. Feck sake he has little to be worrying about.
Maybe he was just annoying. Like the gaelgoir teachers we had at school. The ones who used to call me mhaighriadhd or something like that.
Good point Margie. Maybe he was like the guy in the Colin Farrell movie ” Intermission” who kept addressing his therapy teacher as ” Muinteoir ” until the Deirdre O’Kane carachter told him to “Shut up you owl eejit”
It probably was something like that.
Anybody ever been in Lidl or Aldi when the foreign workers meet one of there own at the till they speak there own language and do so between work colleagues also therefore this guy should have been allowed also.
It’s OK to speak to your colleagues in any language you like – I am sure Irish people working abroad will do that too. If he was speaking to customers in Irish and only switching to English when they did not respond, that would be an entirely different matter. We don’t really know the realities of this case. I cannot imagine any Irish person objecting to a barman sharing a few words of Irish with his colleague, so I wonder if there is not something more to this.
The owners released a statement this afternoon clarifying their position. This employee needs to climb down off his high horse.
Bit of a joke, especially when you go into most shops and foreign staff are speaking their own language! Why can’t people who speak Irish do so with out this crap! I’m not good at Irish before you give me the red thumbs…
I don’t agree with the owner’s decision but it’s their decision to make.
It’s a shame to read something like this. I recently started to learn Irish again. I have done so because I work in an environment where my colleagues speak multiple languages, each, including there natives languages. I am often asked why don’t more Irish people speak Irish?! It is such a beautiful language and we should be proud of it. It’s up to each and everyone of us to keep the language alive, but I do believe the government need to do a lot more to help. Right now it seems that there needs to be a serious incentive attached to Irish in order for people to want to learn it (although preventing our language from dying should be enough). Perhaps extra points in the leaving and junior certs for higher level Irish and extra points based on the amount of time spent in the Gealtacht, and a grant from the government subsiding the cost. If such incentives were introduced now, in 20 years I think the Irish language would be in a far better condition. As the saying goes, you don’t miss something until it’s gone.
It’s really quite simple, most Irish people don’t speak Irish because they haven’t ever been taught to speak it to any degree of fluency.
Duolingo Irish is a fantastic resource if you want to relearn Irish.
I completely agree with you TehJurolan. I think it was more or less hammered into us in school with no real teaching involved!
Duolingo is a great little app.
It seems as if you are saying people need to be forced and cajoled, or rewarded, to speak the language – if that is the case, then it is already dead. The way I see it is that there is a percentage of people who speak Irish as their first language, or speak English and Irish interchangeably, and that is brilliant, but it is also a choice.
I would vigorously oppose even more forcing of young adults at secondary level when it comes to compulsory Irish as a school subject. It is hugely counter-productive. Also, rewarding those who happen to be good at languages by giving extra points to a subject that many see as pointless would be going against the will of the majority of Irish people who do not choose to speak Irish on a regular basis – and it IS a choice – since it’s not really hard to learn for anybody who is committed to learning to speak it. The Government would do better to support free conversational language groups in the community so that those who want to learn to speak it can do so. When it comes down to it, there is nothing to stop speakers getting together for conversational evenings and inviting along those who want to learn.
I respect your opinion. But I do not like people speaking about Irish as a dead language. It’s only dead if we want it to be. If that is the case, then it will die out and there is nothing to be done about it. But if we just stand by and allow it to die, without trying to save it, then shame on us all. As regards forcing people to learn it. That is not at all what I meant. It’s that very thing that has the language the way it is. It’s all about choice, and yes, a certain amount of cajoling/rewarding involved. It is human nature to pursue something for the possibility of reward. I don’t think some children are born with the ability to learn a language faster/easier over other children. I think it’s all down to the attitude of the parents, school and society. Language groups in towns would be nice, but why just confine it to groups that meet occasionally? Would it not be nice to hear young people speaking Irish around or villages, towns and cities?! But again, everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter, what might be nice for one person may be horrid for another.
“(The manager) spoke to you as a result of a number of complaints received from people who felt uncomfortable at the bar because you were communicating in Irish.”
Sounds like total BS to me. Why would any customer feel uncomfortable to hear 2 lads chatting as gaeilge in a gaelic country?! If the barman was also fluent in Spanish and had a few spanish customers would he not be allowed to greet them in Spanish and chat a little? Weird.
I suppose it’s hard to know the real situation without being there – if he was speaking Irish to customers in general, and only switching to English when they couldn’t understand, then that might not be OK in a country where the majority of citizens are not fluent in Irish. When we are being paid to do a job, being asked to address customers in English does not seem to be wrong. If he was just speaking a few words of Irish to an Irish-speaking colleague, and this was not interfering with his work, that should be OK.
You do have to wonder why people complained if he was just chatting to his Irish-speaking colleague – I don’t think anybody would complain about that.
An bhuil cead agam dul go dti an Leithris
Tá cead, agus fág do shîte unoriginal jokes ann chomh maith.
Tá do Ghaeilge uafásach!!!!
Lmao, classic.
Sorry Niall that’s the only Irish I remember from school and as far as I’m aware it isn’t actually a joke … no need to be so mean. Who dunked their buscuit in yiur coffee ? such a pity they don’t get the kids to ask can they go to the loo in Irish these days … it’s the only bit of Irish that stuck in my head !
I know! I had to use Google translate to even see what you were saying !
Ah it’s a good try Lauren.. I love Irish!
I love hearing people talk irish ! It’s such a shame we don’t all have good irish!! I’m actually ashamed of myself for knowing so little!
I would be a big advocate for it. I went to a gaelscoil and I’m adamant when I have kids they will be following suit. Grá do theanga x
You need not be ashamed! Anyhow I suppose you know the Irish for “Please”, “Thanks” and “Excuse me” – you could try using them if a suitable occasion presents. Others usually react positively (not always though!).
What a non story! I find it annoying when I go to any premises and the employees are having a conversation in a different language when they are supposed to be working and looking after customers. Well done to the owners!
That rules out most countries in the world, and very probably most parts of most English-speaking countries as well.
When I go into Lidl and the checkout staff are talking to their fellow countrymen and women in their own native language (Polish, Russian etc), it doesn’t bother me one bit.
In fact it’s kinda nice to hear.
Why on earth this was an issue, I’ve no idea.
Because the owner is paranoid.
I hate that i cant speak it & am to lazy to learn it, some day. The thing is its one fiercely beautiful language when you listen to 2 people speaking as gaeilge in full flow, tis music to my ignorant ears.
Irish is the first language of Ireland. Isn’t it his constitutional right to speak it regardless. There could be no challenge on behalf of the pub owner anyway.
I for one am not the languages biggest fan, the greatest works on this island have all been written in English, while Irish is deader than a coma patient 20 years on.
However no harm no foul, but also its his business he cant tell his staff exactly what he wants them to do while they are working for him.
Cormac clearly thinks being a GealGeoir is more important to actually having a job and choose willingly to leave his employment out of principle.
Best of luck working ion the private sector with Irish, you will go so far in life.
Sadly he’s right.. The language of the ‘company’ is the language that must be spoken. On his breaks he can speak whatever he likes though..
@Daniel Murray:
What if a native speaker from sayBallyferriter or Muskerry, who may know this bartender, comes in and asks for a drink and engages in a bit of comhra through Irish is this OK, because I doubt if a Polish bartender would be requested not to speak in Polish to other Poles
The boss should benefitted from this. He could ads something like “want to learn irish, come to us, we have good Irish speaking staff”. I believe a lot of people would be happy to come.
Can’t see the problem with 2 people having a conversation in Irish sure if that’s the case u would have to ban all Polish people from speaking to each other in their native tongue or any other foreign national who talks their language
The Empire Strikes Back!
We live in Ireland and Irish is our national language if he wants to speak Irish then he can Irish in his own country
I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s our national language because nearly everyone in Ireland has English as their first language & only very few can speak Irish.
What kind of idiot would walk away from a job in this day and age because he doesn’t like the company rules……
In all fairness its bar work the pay is hardly out of this world and its one of the only jobs left you can literally walk into another.
Maybe someone with principles Chris Kirk, if only we could employ people who actually value principles over greed and ego in the Dáil. That might be a nice one for him but I doubt he’d last long if he continued to stick to principles….. he’d do fine if he really was an idiot though
Many women, possibly?
Perhaps you are right Norin, but in over fifty years the principle of work and doing a good job never worried me. Perhaps things have changed…….
Tá post eile faighte aige cheana, bhí an cheart glan aige siúl on áit sin.
Chris Kirk, have you considered that it is possible to work in a manner that accords with the values you hold? Or that to do otherwise shows a high level of hypocrisy? Or are such considerations subservient to the requirement to work? If so, all the strikes that lead to things like workplace safety, fair and equal pay etc. were morally reprehensible. Your snide suggestion that this guy is work shy does nothing to strengthen your point either…..
Strange how the article doesn’t once mention that the owner is also from the gaeltacht and is a fluent Irish speaker.
That would probably be because he is not from a Gaeltacht area and is not a fluent Irish speaker.
I would suggest otherwise. Mr o shea is from the west cork gaeltacht parish of aoibh laoire.
Cath Chéim an Fhia country. Go bhFóire Dia orainn!!
The owner has form. Outside of foreign workers or strangers to Cork nobody in the local bar trade would work for him. The pay is crap, the working conditions poor etc… The Kerryman is better well out of the way of that fecker.
Is the owner not entitled to create the rules and then the employees follow the rules ??
But the warning was the first time the employee heard of this rule. It wasn’t part of any contractual arrangement. You can’t make these things up as you go long and then threaten someone’s employment due to a breach.
Subject to the legal rights of all parties, the requirements of Employment Law, of Health and Safety Regulations, of Fire Safety Regulations, Planning Conditions, Environmental Regulations, etc etc, all being observed.
God help your naïveté.
Sorry, forgot all about Taxation Regs.
Every Irish school should be a Gaelscoil. Irish has to be completely reintroduced and finally get its spot as First National Language of the Republic. Also for me, as a foreigner, learning Irish is really hard but I do it out of respect for my second home.
That would be a fascist dictatorship that would be resisted by many Irish people. There is NOTHING stopping any Irish person who wants to learn and speak Irish. It is taught as a compulsory subject already (which it should not be at secondary level). You cannot force people to do something or they will end up hating it – as many young people already do.
As a non Irish speaker I’m horrified at this story. It’s almost harks back to the penal code. This wouldn’t be a Witherspoons pub by any chance?
Employee loses job due to failure to comply with rules of employer…..sorry…..where’s the problem here? Why is this a story? If you don’t like the job….get another one that allows you to speak in whichever tongue you like. These stories with the “poor me” drive me mad, or should I say “Mise bocht”
And what if the employer changes the rules have way through your employment?
*half
I have said this so many times I am becoming bored. Irish is not only a dead language, it is worse; it is a dead, pointless language. Latin is a dead language, but there is still a reason to learn it, because so much of our Western historical record was originally written in Latin. Same for Attic Greek. Irish a) has no corpus of literature b) for the last 400 or so years was only spoken by illiterate peasants and c) has absolutely no reason to continue to exist. You can dispute the last point, which is the result of my patent disgust with its very existence, but not the first two. And, yes, people can ramble on about the beauty of bardic poetry or the majesty of the Ulster or Connaught Cycles, but they were never originally written in Irish. They were written in Latin, from Irish oral tradition, and then retranslated into Irish. Name me one important person person in the last 1000 years whose primary language of commerce was Irish, and I will yield the argument. But there isn’t, so I won’t
Irish has one of the oldest native literatures in western Europe after Greek and Latin. The earliest recorded Irish writing dates from the seventh century in both Latin AND Early Irish, and there is in fact a very large corpus of literature in Old, Middle, Early Modern and Modern Irish.
The oldest surviving literatures written in Old English dates from about. 450AD, in the earliest stage of the German language only from the second half of the 8th century, in French from the ninth century, and the earliest literature in Spanish is Mediaeval.
I expect you know, and it’s no exaggeration to say, that Ireland was more or less eviscerated – culturally, socially, demographically, economically, and of course linguistically – over the period you mention. Such are the wages of malevolence. I suspect the famous Irish Inferiority Complex arises in this period; clearly, we don’t seem to have shaken it off fully yet.
You aren’t the first to be disgusted by the existence of the Irish language, and a lot of other things about Ireland too. Those of us who care for our heritage and are determined to preserve all of it in the teeth of such malice will soldier on, though.
I appreciate the argument. It’s incorrect, but I appreciate it. I also appreciate the phrase ‘the wages of malevolence,’ English is such a beautiful and expressive language. By the way, I admire the manner in which the British, as you say, ‘eviscerated’ the Irish culture. One should embrace such thoroughness
Of course I could have equally well have written my reply in Irish, which as you doubtless are aware is no less beautifully expressive. Did you know for example that the name for English in the Gaelic languages is “Béarla/Beurla/Baarle” – which means literally “argot” or “cant”? Interesting.
You are utterly and I fear, pathologically, wrong on all counts, of course; including the supposed “thoroughness” of the British administration which, although accompanied by a truly horrifying body count (as much as 25% of the entire population on one occasion), was, from their point of view, incompetent because incomplete.
No, one has to look to other related peoples for greater thoroughness of the kind you claim to so admire – all of which have also been failures; unsurprisingly, I suspect, because all have been based on unsustainable and ultimately corrosive hatred and injustice.
My firm opinion is that an English only policy is a bit narrow minded. People should be allowed speak whatever language they like. I would be just as annoyed if this was about someone who was speaking Polish, Spanish or whatever language they want to speak. Obviously to customers try speak the language they are most comfortable with.
You wouldn’t last long in Tesco’s then…..
explain ?? Just to confirm I am pro speaking any language you want. Tesco to my knowledge allow this ….ive been there and heard workers speak other langages to one another.
Not on the checkouts you haven’t, Tesco applies rules when dealing with customers that general communication must be in English.
@Chris Kirk:
To be quite honest with Chris I would not worry about Tesco. When you check the prices, especially so called ‘offers’ on the shelves, you often find they charge different prices at the check out. I have not stood in any of their stores for years.
Nevermind Cormac, it’s just closed mindedness, you are better off rid, someone else will be happy to take on a man of principal and being a gaeilgeoir is a USP in my opinion. Bring the other lad with you too.
So this very philanthropic establishment employs people of other nationalities, bully for them. Shame they didn’t have a better grasp of geography. The man from Kerry is in his OWN country and MUST be allowed to speak his own language. Shame on the owners.
Massive drama queen full stop ! At least there is a job to be filled by someone who needs the money ! ..
You mean the below minimum wage topped up by food on the job whether you want to be paid that way or not….
Evidence? ?
Sad to see a business owner not encourage a multi-cultural workplace. Overseas, in other European countries they can speak multiple languages to each other, it’s great in the service industry for a customer to be able to communicate in their own language with their waiter/bartender. Sounds like the owner drew a line in the sand and wasn’t backing down.
He was on Joe Duffy. That tells you all you need to know about him. A bollix. He was employed for 8 months. Good luck with that.
If he met someone in the pub who could speak Irish, then by all means they could’ve spoken to each other in Irish for hours. But for the rest of us who can’t speak 2 words of Irish, you speak English. It’s not really a good reason to walk out on your job.
Indeed, I suspect people would not be complaining if it was just a case of his speaking a few words of Irish to his colleague.
@Keith McDonagh:
But was that the kernal of the question here. Was he actually speaking in Irish to people who only understood English.
Many years ago l used to exchange cúpla focail with a Scottish barman in the heart of the Cotswolds. Never a problem (although we did take the piss out of the Sassenachs)
Worst pub in Cork
The original Flying Enterprise sank in a storm off the cost of Cork in January 1952 – without loss of life thankfully. Very dramatic at the time.
What does it say if you can’t speak irish in your own country. Go to lidl or aldi and their all speaking Polish. Doesn’t effect me in the slightest. Fair play to him for walking out and highlighting this employers behaviour
Wonder would they stop a Romanian or Polish person from speaking their languages I somehow don’t think so
@Karen Delaney:
Yes.He probably be accused of racism in the spot.
The Irish constitution sets out that Irish and not English is the first official language of Ireland. English is second.
I hope he sues them.
Yes he should sue them for walking out on his job…jesus wept
@jamiec,
You’re obviously ignorant of the concept of constructive dismissal.
Sue the douchebags absolutely disgraceful
Chuir Gaeilge a ar ‘douchebags?’
Ba chóir liom a rá ‘Cuir.’
The irony of it all is that this pub is on the grounds of Sullys quay national school where Irish wud have been thought for yrs n yrs. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say the ‘all-controlling’ management cudnt handle not knowing what their staff were talking abt.
Flying Enterprise is a great spot in any language . Owner, staff and management are very friendly and courteous . And NO I don’t work there or am related to the O Shea family . I am a loyal customer . Hate these crusaders , hope the cupla focail will be on some benefit to him on the Dole
It should be renamed ‘The Flying Bottle’….it’s an awful place.
Friendly and courteous staff how are ya!!
He’s not on the dole, he’s got a new job in a place that does not try to tell him not to speak Irish.
The Flying Enterprise = An Fhiontair Eitilte.
Or, “Eitleogach” if you like, which conveys a sense of volatility, airiness even.
Or, “An Fhiontair ar eitilt” which literally means “The Enterprise (which is) in the act of flying”,
You would think the bar was owned by the Brits the way they carried on
Feic DPM, you’ve put Richie Kavanagh’s song on a loop in my head.
Why won’t people wake up to the fact that greedy business owners despise Western European culture. All they want to employ is cheap non indigenous employees that are subservient and that don’t mind being treated like a feudal slave.
I hope the customers of this pub vote with those feet.
Identity is far more important than being able to understand what you’re saying. We should have a different language for each county.
This pub is quite near where I live, I know the owner I’ve worked for him, he’s a decent man, I don’t know the employee in question.
If the employee O’Bruic was conversing in Irish with Irish speaking fellow employees and customers known to enjoy ‘a cupla focal’ then he has a genuine grievance, if however he was generally engaging with all his customers ‘as gaeilge’ that is another matter. I grew up under shadow of intimidating violence and abuse throughout my primary and secondary education to ‘love’ Irish, and was pummelled many a time for not ‘getting it’. I resent being spoken to ‘as gaeilge’ in a non gaeltacht region, I resent having ‘gaeilge’ pushed on me.
It seems to me that despite the many decades that have passed since I finished school there is still this cloying insistence on us to ‘caint as gaeilge’.
‘Gaeilge’ was spoiled for me by the bullies that taught it and devised the curriculum and 30 years later it seems the same types are still pushing it in the same way, why are Irish children finding French and German easier to learn, love and excel in than Irish.
I’d love to love Irish but I don’t.
The only bully insisting on a language being spoken was the owner trying to force a native Irish speaking employee to speak English at all times, yet somehow it is English speakers that are the victems. The mind boggles.
People should boycott that pub! This anti Irish bias has no place in Ireland ! When people died for freedom in 1916 it also included freedom to speak our language! The owner has got to be brain dead !
I think they’ve had as much publicity from this deplorable incident as they might expect to be entitled to.
I work in a restaurant and its communication in english only to all staff, you could be talking about other staff roght in front of them in another language. All leads to very uncomfortable situations. They were totally right.
Sure, the dark hair and the beard on him and he speaking gobbledygook… He could be mistaken for one of them Isis fellahs. People have been thrown off planes for less! . . /sarcasm
`Bìonn dhà insint ar scèal agus dhà leagan dèag ar amhran.`. whatever the merits of this particular case it doesn`t excuse the elitist`s who try own the language and try to create `gaeltacht reservations`excluding non speakers etc , they are usually from a cultural, academic and artistic background.
Súileann fear isteach i dteach tabhairne…. and orders a pint?
Maybe those who were uncomfortable thought he was speaking Arabic. So here’s a quiz for you Irish speakers: what phrase in Irish most sounds like Allahu Akbar, or even Inshallah?
What an opportunity missed
Cead cainte, cead cainte.
Hardly anybody understands or bothers to speak it, it will never be revived.
Fair play to cormac. Árd fhear
Now thats a bit irish…………
Und kann man auf Deutsch sprechen, wenn im die Irishe pub hat besucht.( can you speak German when you visit this Irish pub.)
Mein Freund, es gibt Polen die dort arbeiten. Umsicht ratsam ist.
Peig Sayers turned me right off it..and getting the duster thrown off the back of my head by teacher did not help either…
I would invite the management of the Flying Enterprise to take a flying f*ck on a galloping goose.
“being”
Unacceptable!! Irish is our native language and should be celebrated!!
A person can’t speak our national language in his place of work? Mad. The Flying Enterprise hasn’t a leg to stand on. Personally I am not going back into that pub until I hear them apologising.
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