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Andrew Medichini/AP

What did the Pope say about abortion yesterday?

Was Benedict referring to Ireland when he spoke of laws that “unjustly alter the balance” between mother and baby?

POPE BENEDICT yesterday criticised legal efforts around the world to decriminalise abortion, ahead of three days of committee hearings in Ireland on proposed new legislation bringing legal clarity to the area.

The pontiff was speaking at a gathering of diplomats accredited to the Holy See when he criticised the proposal of any law which decriminalised abortion, describing such moves as “gravely contrary to the moral law”.

The remarks came in the midst of a lengthy speech, extracts of which were distributed by the Vatican Information Service and which are reproduced below. The passage referring to abortion is emboldened for convenience.

Civil and political authorities before all others have a grave responsibility to work for peace. They are the first called to resolve the numerous conflicts causing bloodshed in our human family, beginning with that privileged region in God’s plan, the Middle East. I think first and foremost of Syria, torn apart by endless slaughter and the scene of dreadful suffering among its civilian population. I renew my appeal for a ceasefire and the inauguration as quickly as possible of a constructive dialogue aimed at putting an end to a conflict which will know no victors but only vanquished if it continues, leaving behind it nothing but a field of ruins. Your Excellencies, allow me to ask you to continue to make your Governments aware of this, so that essential aid will urgently be made available to face this grave humanitarian situation.

I now turn with deep concern towards the Holy Land. Following Palestine’s recognition as a Non-Member Observer State of the United Nations, I again express the hope that, with the support of the international community, Israelis and Palestinians will commit themselves to peaceful coexistence within the framework of two sovereign states, where respect for justice and the legitimate aspirations of the two peoples will be preserved and guaranteed. Jerusalem, become what your name signifies! A city of peace and not of division; a prophecy of the Kingdom of God and not a byword for instability and opposition!

As I turn my thoughts towards the beloved Iraqi people, I express my hope that they will pursue the path of reconciliation in order to arrive at the stability for which they long.

In Lebanon, where last September I met the various groups which make up society, may the many religious traditions there be cultivated by all as a true treasure for the country and for the whole region, and may Christians offer an effective witness for the building of a future of peace, together with all men and women of good will!

In North Africa too, cooperation between all the members of society is of primary concern, and each must be guaranteed full citizenship, the liberty publicly to profess their religion and the ability to contribute to the common good. I assure all Egyptians of my closeness and my prayers at this time when new institutions are being set in place.

Turning to sub-Saharan Africa, I encourage the efforts being made to build peace, especially in those places where the wounds of war remain open and where their grave humanitarian consequences are being felt. I think particularly of the Horn of Africa, and the East of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where new of acts of violence have erupted, forcing many people to abandon their homes, families and surroundings. Nor can I fail to mention other threats looming on the horizon. Nigeria is regularly the scene of terrorist attacks which reap victims above all among the Christian faithful gathered in prayer, as if hatred intended to turn temples of prayer and peace into places of fear and division. I was deeply saddened to learn that, even in the days when we celebrated Christmas, some Christians were barbarously put to death. Mali is also torn by violence and marked by a profound institutional and social crisis, one which calls for the effective attention of the international community. In the Central African Republic, I hope that the talks announced as taking place shortly will restore stability and spare the people from reliving the throes of civil war.

The building of peace always comes about by the protection of human beings and their fundamental rights. This task, even if carried out in many ways and with varying degrees of intensity, challenges all countries and must constantly be inspired by the transcendent dignity of the human person and the principles inscribed in human nature. Foremost among these is respect for human life at every stage. In this regard, I was gratified that a resolution of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, in January of last year, called for the prohibition of euthanasia, understood as the intentional killing by act or omission of a dependent human being.

At the same time, I must note with dismay that, in various countries, even those of Christian tradition, efforts are being made to introduce or expand legislation which decriminalizes abortion. Direct abortion, that is to say willed as an end or as a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law. In affirming this, the Catholic Church is not lacking in understanding and mercy, also towards the mother involved. Rather, it is a question of being vigilant lest the law unjustly alter the balance between the right to life of the mother and that of the unborn child, a right belonging equally to both. In this area, the recent decision of the Inter-American Court of Human Rights regarding in vitro fertilization, which arbitrarily redefines the moment of conception and weakens the defence of unborn life, is also a source of concern.

The European Union also requires far-sighted representatives capable of making the difficult choices necessary to rectify its economy and to lay solid foundations for growth. Alone, certain countries may perhaps advance more quickly, but together, all will certainly go further! If the differential index between financial taxes represents a source of concern, the increasing differences between those few who grow ever richer and the many who grow hopelessly poorer, should be a cause for dismay. In a word, it is a question of refusing to be resigned to a ‘spread’ in social well-being, while at the same time fighting one in the financial sector.

Investment in education in the developing countries of Africa, Asia and Latin America means helping them to overcome poverty and disease, and to create legal systems which are equitable and respectful of human dignity. Certainly, if justice is to be achieved, good economic models, however necessary, are not sufficient. Justice is achieved only when people are just! Consequently, building peace means training individuals to fight corruption, criminal activity, the production and trade in narcotics, as well as abstaining from divisions and tensions which threaten to exhaust society, hindering development and peaceful coexistence.

Continuing our meeting today, I would like to add that peace in society is also put at risk by certain threats to religious liberty: it is a question sometimes of the marginalization of religion in social life; sometimes of intolerance or even of violence towards individuals, symbols of religious identity and religious institutions. It even happens that believers, and Christians in particular, are prevented from contributing to the common good by their educational and charitable institutions. In order effectively to safeguard the exercise of religious liberty it is essential to respect the right of conscientious objection. This ‘frontier’ of liberty touches upon principles of great importance of an ethical and religious character, rooted in the very dignity of the human person. They are, as it were, the ‘bearing walls’ of any society that wishes to be truly free and democratic. Thus, outlawing individual and institutional conscientious objection in the name of liberty and pluralism paradoxically opens by contrast the door to intolerance and forced uniformity.

Moreover, in an ever more open world, building peace through dialogue is no longer a choice but a necessity! From this perspective, the joint declaration between the President of the Bishops’ Conference of Poland and the Patriarch of Moscow, signed last August, is a strong signal given by believers for the improvement of relations between the Russian and Polish peoples. I would also like to mention the peace accord concluded recently in the Philippines and I would like to underline the role of dialogue between religions for a peaceful coexistence in the region of Mindanao.

To conclude our encounter, I would like to recall that, at the end of the Second Vatican Council – which started fifty years ago – the Servant of God, Pope Paul VI, sent out messages which remain relevant, including one addressed to world leaders. He encouraged them in this way: ‘Your task is to be in the world the promoters of order and peace among men. But never forget this: It is God […] who is the great artisan of order and peace on earth’. Today, as I make those sentiments my own, I convey to you, the Ambassadors and other distinguished Members of the Diplomatic Corps, as well as to your families and colleagues, my very best wishes for the New Year. Thank you!

The Oireachtas health committee today begins three days of hearings on the proposed legislation, hearing input from medical, legal and lobby groups on what should and should not be included in the legislation.

The Catholic Church will be one of six groups to offer input in a two-hour session on Thursday morning, alongside representatives from the Anglican, Presbyterian, Methodist and Muslim faiths, and from Atheist Ireland.

Explainer: Why the Oireachtas is holding three days of hearings on abortion

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109 Comments
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    Mute Ciaran O Shea
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:42 AM

    I hate the catholic church. Not individual priests, not individual practitioners, but as an organisation I hate the catholic church.

    298
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    Mute Gareth Walker-Ayers
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    Jan 8th 2013, 11:03 AM

    Him and Darth Vader blew up Alderaan! #neverforget

    43
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    Mute Anthony Hesketh
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    Jan 8th 2013, 11:28 AM

    Well you should be excluded from any debate if you hate the church so much. Not exactly balanced are you ?

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    Mute Robbie Doyle
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    Jan 8th 2013, 12:13 PM

    You don’t seem to be on the fence there yourself Anthony.

    56
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    Mute Helen Duffy
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    Jan 8th 2013, 5:46 PM

    You have every right to hate it. All the Churches of the world are Churches of the Anti-Christ. The Anti-Christ is the apostle Paul.

    `A last minute guide to the Bible` http://www.lastminutebibleguide.capnix.com

    `A last minute guide to the Bible`
    http://www.scribt.com

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    Mute joe stodge
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:42 AM

    The pope should not be commenting about anything to do with sex, what does he know!

    295
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    Mute john stone
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:59 AM

    You’d be surprised…

    158
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    Mute shay o'reilly
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:07 AM

    I believe he was discussing the consequences of sex and not sex itself, your right he should know nothing about sex( celibate), but can see the consequences just like the rest of us.
    He is entitled to voice his opinion as leader of a diminishing and increasingly , unimportant, outdated church

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    Mute DB
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:18 AM

    @ Shay he has no right to comment after what his church has done to this country in terms of pain and suffering caused.

    112
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    Mute shay o'reilly
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:20 AM

    John you didn’t, did ya

    23
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    Mute joe stodge
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:26 AM

    I did anything, consequences included.

    4
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    Mute joe stodge
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:27 AM

    I did say anything, consequences included.

    4
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    Mute shay o'reilly
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:28 AM

    DB then neither has government or anybody else with authority in Ireland’s history

    35
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    Mute Anthony Hesketh
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    Jan 8th 2013, 11:27 AM

    What a load of balls DB. The church has provided schools and health and welfare to the irish people on a shoestring when the state couldn’t be arsed spending real money on them. Stop the bigotry

    34
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    Mute Conor
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    Jan 8th 2013, 12:04 PM

    And also stopped the mother and child act which would’ve been the most progressive piece of legislation in comparison to the times that the CPU try has ever seen. Since you used the Bigot word first, then there is their stern opposition to homosexuality, single mothers, birth control, equality for the sexes etc. They also covered up and most likely still do reports of child abuse. Also a hypocrite with his vow of poverty in a gilded houses shouldn’t actually be throwing stones.

    54
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    Mute Nipper
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    Jan 8th 2013, 1:38 PM

    Are you not aware that when the British tried to introduce a state school system in Ireland that the Catholic Church refused to let Catholic Children be educated outside of a Catholic school?

    The reason we have religious schools and hospitals is because of the threats made by the church to anyone who tries to change it.

    The same church that refused to allow contraception in the state , but were happy for little “Bastards” to be locked up and used as slave labour in their industrial schools/Laundrettes.

    31
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    Mute Maria Conroy Byrne
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    Jan 9th 2013, 9:41 AM

    That would exclude a lot of people!

    1
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    Mute Mick Fox
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:44 AM

    Irrelevant virgin makes statement on matters none of his business.

    168
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    Mute Begrudgy
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:08 AM

    Virgin. Lol

    66
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    Mute Michelle Jordan
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:49 AM

    So an adult woman is equal in status to a foetus, in the eyes of The Church?

    147
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    Mute Eoin Gildea
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:57 AM

    No, in the eyes of all churches, a women is worth nothing. A feotus has the chance of being male.

    211
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    Mute Albert Mata
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:00 AM

    No way. A fetus, if finally becomes a man, will be able to have relevant roles in Christian Church. A woman won’t ever. So in that sense I think they consider the fetus quite more important…

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    Mute Paul MC
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:00 AM

    Michelle, yes equal in status to a foetus, but what does the church think of women?
    By all accounts women are second class citizens, not allowed to become priests, not allowed partake in most activities in the church, etc.
    The church pays lip service to women.

    87
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    Mute Damien Quigley
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:51 AM

    Michelle – both the adult woman and the unborn child are both treated as persons. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) says: “The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation” (CCC, 2273).

    37
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    Mute My Dawg Barks Some
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    Jan 8th 2013, 12:37 PM

    No Michelle, a woman is little more than a baby making machine on a production line, if your not making babies you should be seen only in the kitchen, preferably washing dishes, hanging out clothes and for Gods sake whatever you do, refrain from thinking for yourself.

    We have religious leaders to do that for you. So please refrain in your attempt to be recognized as an individual in your own right. It’s Gods plan apparently that you reside in the home and venture out only for Mass.

    32
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    Mute shay o'reilly
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    Jan 8th 2013, 12:53 PM

    If only it were true

    4
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    Mute Maria Conroy Byrne
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    Jan 9th 2013, 9:40 AM

    Not much understanding of the true situation for Catholic women! The Church is slated for defending life; if they spoke out for good treatment for piglets or puppies or against fox hunting, they’d be praised from a height, but, unfortunately, saving the whale is seen as more laudable than saving the human baby.

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    Mute Conor Buggy
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:45 AM

    Pretty sure that he is directing that at Ireland alright. Don’t think there are any other European countries of a christian heritage in the throws of a raging debate on abortion. He could be lumping the Phillipines (well outside Europe for sure) in with us as they have just introduced new contraception laws there.

    I wonder does he still think he can dictate to us and we’ll actually do as we are told by him?

    109
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    Mute Albert Mata
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:02 AM

    Unfortunately Spain is talking about changing law of abortion (to restrict it) since the arrival of Rajoy’s conservative party to the government.

    48
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    Mute Dermot Meehan
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    Jan 8th 2013, 11:20 AM

    Es así Albert, los tontos de culo de los conservadores!!! another smoke screen to divert the attention that the state is failing in every aspect. Abortion stirs up a lot of passion and debate. Great to get people’s attention of the real issues.

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    Mute bpdeasy
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    Jan 8th 2013, 2:10 PM

    Conor, I listen to what the pope says. And I follow what he says and accept it for my life and the lives of my children. The teachings of the Catholic Church sustain family life. Including no sex outside marriage, no contraception, no abortion, no divorce, no homosexual acts. Show me something better and I’ll follow that. But when I look around and see the suffering people bring on themselves then I will gladly follow the Pope and the teachings of the Church. They lead to a happy life.

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    Mute Conor Buggy
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    Jan 8th 2013, 5:12 PM

    Good for you bpdeasy. It is your choice to follow his direction based on your religion and your morals. But for those of us who want nothing from the roman catholic church they should not procrastinate, dictate or pressurise our civil society to follow their opinions and views. Nor should they interfere with our civil legislation be it abortion, contraception or same sex marriage.

    25
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    Mute Conor Buggy
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    Jan 8th 2013, 5:16 PM

    Oh and instead of just following roman catholic dogma sculpted to enpower the magesterium, you might like to read and follow the actual teachings of Christ and be an actual Christian. A much better way which you asked for!

    20
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    Mute Maria Conroy Byrne
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    Jan 9th 2013, 9:43 AM

    A lot of people seem to oppose freedom of speech!

    2
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    Mute Mark Vieregge
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:44 AM

    Poor man, while other people retire at 65, he’s still forced to work until the day he dies.
    No wonder he keeps on spewing crap.

    107
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    Mute Joseph Potter
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:47 AM

    When he dies, is he fired or promoted?

    56
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    Mute My Dawg Barks Some
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    Jan 8th 2013, 4:02 PM

    We catholics cannibalize. Never went in for the body and blood of Christ thing myself, but in any case he’ll probably be tossed in some secret herbs and spices and made into wafers.

    5
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    Mute Pierce2020
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:03 AM

    “gravely contrary to the moral law”, but kiddy fiddling is alright though.

    82
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    Mute Simon Power
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:22 AM

    Abortion on demand in the first 90 days has been available in Italy since 1978. We, as a nation, are introducing legislation pertaining to the narrowest of situations where the mothers life is at risk. Why is the Pope not concerning himself with matters closer to home? The answer is that Italy has moved on and we should to. Using the Catholic Church as a moral compass is like navigating with 2000 year old sea charts.

    79
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    Mute DB
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:53 AM

    Get back in your box popey

    75
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    Mute Dave Murray
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:59 AM

    Given the Vatican’s long-standing and absolute disrespect for women, is it any surprise that he should make these remarks?
    He says that the proposal of any law which decriminalised abortion, describing such moves as “gravely contrary to the moral law”.
    I am wondering if “the moral law”, as he describes it, is anything like “the canon law”?

    I don’t think we need any reminding of where “canon law” got us, do we?

    68
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    Mute DB
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:16 AM

    Off topic a bit but the pope is a hypocrite. He always on about protecting the vulnerable but at the same time he lives in a plush palace and his company the Catholic Church owns some of the most valuable real estate there is. Reminds me of Charles Haughey a bit.

    59
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    Mute Maria Conroy Byrne
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    Jan 9th 2013, 9:45 AM

    Do you think the Pope actually owns the Vatican?.He has little personal wealth.

    1
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    Mute shay o'reilly
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:14 AM

    It amazes me that anyone cares what the pope says, or that the pro- choice groupings seem to believe he can sway – the decision of the people, history is just that history, we have moved on for better or worse, and left the bulk of the popes views behind

    46
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    Mute DB
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:20 AM

    The church still has power for some unknown reason. Crazy stuff.

    44
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    Mute Joni Spring
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:57 AM

    Is going to spend his wealth on caring for the children?

    42
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    Mute Damien Quigley
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    Jan 8th 2013, 10:06 AM

    Hi Joni,

    One example of the care that the Church gives to people:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/williampbarrett/2012/11/08/the-largest-u-s-charities-for-2012/

    “Catholic Charities USA” is the third largest charity in the US.

    22
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    Mute Stephen Nolan
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:38 AM

    How can that man use the words moral law and keep a straight face?

    38
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    Mute Helen Murphy Guinane
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    Jan 8th 2013, 10:31 AM

    Funny how he’s worried about “the balance between the right to life of the mother and that of the unborn child, a right belonging equally to both”, yet in practice what they really want is the foetus’s rights to trump that of the woman’s.

    33
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    Mute Maria Conroy Byrne
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    Jan 9th 2013, 9:48 AM

    Totally untrue! No woman should ever be refused life-saving treatment.

    3
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    Mute Shane Mc Donnell
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:48 AM

    I saw a poll introduced lately done nationwide and pro life hammered pro choice and there was also some pro choice vigil somewhere attended by a huge crowd, majority been women

    29
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    Mute Shane Mc Donnell
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    Jan 8th 2013, 8:49 AM

    Pro life vigil sorry

    17
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    Mute seamus mcdermott
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:05 AM

    Now there’s a useless bit of information…

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    Mute Jason Culligan
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:07 AM

    Proof or you’re spouting sh**e.

    46
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    Mute Gaius Gracchus
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:13 AM

    Was it in The Catholic Times or Alive! ?

    75
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    Mute Barbara Ledwidge
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    Jan 8th 2013, 11:48 AM

    It’s simple, no? Women should have control over their own bodies, end of.

    27
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    Mute karl doyle
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:16 AM

    Of course he is against it, nothing new there. All the people always posting negative stuff about the church should really put there money where their mouth is and cancel their connection to the church ( you have to write a letter i think ) no point celebrating some aspects ( xmas, communions ) and then bashing others. Personlly i think this effects women since they live under whatever circumstances that got them pregnant. If its just a stupid drunk night then why should they allowed abortion for stupidity?? Atleast let someone that cant pro-create adopt the child.

    25
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    Mute RobertOMaingain
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:18 AM

    Yep if you cant do the time dont do the crime (in regards to unwanted pregnancies)

    29
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    Mute karl doyle
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:21 AM

    To true :), i always think of a friend who is so happy his mother chose adoption ( ofc he would for obvious reasons lol )

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    Mute shay o'reilly
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:34 AM

    Robert, sex isn’t a crime, at lest not how I role, and when it’s over for me it’s over, for a woman this may be different, so all options should be over to her, including living with the consequence if that’s her choice

    50
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    Mute Mjhint
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    Jan 8th 2013, 10:50 AM

    Karl xmas was hijacked by christians. It was a pagan tradition long before christians got their hands on it. Also you cant just leave the church like you say. You could before but the cc removed that service because of changes in canon law. All that other rubbish about adoptions & one nights stands requires you to do some serious research. This subject is too complicated for simple catholics.

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    Mute karl doyle
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    Jan 8th 2013, 11:15 AM

    Think you should wear protection then if thats how you roll. Same for women. If it should be simple enough to get an abortion in this country then getting a rubber shouldn’t be too hard, no? :)

    14
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    Mute karl doyle
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    Jan 8th 2013, 11:22 AM

    Do you have a link at all for the changes ? Would like to see it, while i agree it would be very difficult to manage circumstances. Just people already have lots of choices, morning after pill, coil, condoms, injections. Why are these not working for people? Would love to hear from women about this

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    Mute Peter Lawless
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    Jan 8th 2013, 11:24 AM

    Karl, I’m pretty sure Christmas was invented to replace a Pagan festival! The guy who is his own father supposedly wasn’t born for another few months! It’s pretty crazy that supposed devoted followers don’t celebrate their Gods birthday on the correct date!

    11
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    Mute karl doyle
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    Jan 8th 2013, 11:28 AM

    Very true, couldnt do that for the kids now though :) check out century of the self on youtube, its good :)

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    Mute shay o'reilly
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    Jan 8th 2013, 12:30 PM

    Karl Good point about existing options,

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    Mute Maria Conroy Byrne
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    Jan 9th 2013, 9:54 AM

    Contaception fails, as everyone knows. If your back up plan is abortion, maybe you should wonder if a baby’s death is a very high price for a bit of sexual pleasure.

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    Mute shay o'reilly
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    Jan 9th 2013, 12:03 PM

    Marie, morning after pill,

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    Mute Susanna Smyth
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    Jan 8th 2013, 10:55 AM

    Of course they’re against abortion. They need us all to keep them in power and keep money rolling into their bank accounts. We may not go to mass but we are hypocritical as we all attend weddings confirmations baptisms ect nice little earners

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    Mute Ian Mc Nally
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    Jan 8th 2013, 11:23 AM

    What right does this relic have to speak on moral issues after ignoring 1 of the ten key rules of his “church” though shalt not kill by blessing the prime minister of uganda who is pushing through a law that makes it completely legal to murder people suspected of being gay

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    Mute Pat Fortune
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    Jan 8th 2013, 10:27 AM

    @Karl Cut ties with the church by writing a letter?? Not any more. There were so many people using an site that assisted in this that they retrospectively changed the rules. Now I and a huge amount of others can be counted as one of their number though the ludicrous cult itself sickens us. Google Count Me Out for more info on how once they have ye they’ll never let you go

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    Mute Ciaran MacAoidh
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    Jan 8th 2013, 12:45 PM

    Just a small clarification on that; the rule (or ‘law’ as they amusingly call it) on officially leaving the church was changed in the Vatican not just in Ireland and not because of the excellent countmeout . ie site.

    It was because people were leaving by the tens of thousands in countries where there is a direct church tax taken from members of a religion and given to that institution, like on Germany. Now, once baptised they won’t let you out in any official way. The rule on “formal defection” was only in for a couple of years before they took that choice away from the post faithful.

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    Mute Conor Buggy
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    Jan 8th 2013, 5:26 PM

    There is still a way apparently. You have to write to the bishop of the diocese of your birth and demand to have your baptism roll rescinded. They then send you a letter telling you to reconsider / eternal damnation etc. You then have to write again and they do the same. On the third time you have to go to the Bishops palace with your baptismal cert and demand to be removed from the records at the church where you were baptised. At that point they are supposed to contact that churchs sacristan and inform them that you will present yourself at the church to witness your removal from the records. They just cross the name out. Then take your baptismal cert and burn it.

    A mate of mine did it in Ferns two years ago after the count me out website was closed. Its doable just incredibly difficult :(

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    Mute My Dawg Barks Some
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    Jan 8th 2013, 11:48 AM

    When is this idiots birthday? Perhaps Ireland could have a whip around and get him an Xbox, that might shut him up for a while

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    Mute Tom Newnewman
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:55 AM

    Where abortion is available it is rarely used for medical emergencies. Using a rare tragedy as a pro abortion rallying opportunity is insensitive.
    Liberal left have held up humane solutions to medical emergencies during pregnancy by demanding British style abortion in Ireland

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    Mute Shane Mc Donnell
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:56 AM

    It’s obvious guys said it before ill say it again abortion should be introduced under certain circumstances

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    Mute Eoin Gildea
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    Jan 8th 2013, 10:56 AM

    Specifically in circumstances where the woman is pregnant, not just any.

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    Mute Cyril Butler
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    Jan 8th 2013, 10:30 AM

    This institution is fuelled by human credulity and is a prime example of why we all need to learn critical thinking skills. There is no such thing as private beliefs among adults in a democracy as these get acted on in the ballot box and produce the type of leadership Ireland and other Roman Catholic countries have produced. Rarely an example of a vibrant democracy or political class as kids are brainwashed into unquestioned belief in belief and unjustified authority.

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    Mute Maria Conroy Byrne
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    Jan 9th 2013, 9:57 AM

    Son let’s just stick to mice “neutral” beliefs where it’s ok to attack anyone with religious beliefs! Great idea!

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    Mute Dermot Meehan
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    Jan 8th 2013, 11:12 AM

    Who cares what the pope said? They should just concentrate on the making more money and laundering all the cash in the Vatican.

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    Mute RobertOMaingain
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:16 AM

    Bring back John Paul II at least he was likeable

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    Mute Declan Fitzsimons
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:54 AM

    Good idea Robert, sure if that jesus lad can be a zombie, why not john paul 2 as well?

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    Mute Eoin Gildea
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    Jan 8th 2013, 10:55 AM

    Class. In the impending zombie apocalypse (that my son says is defintely coming), ill be on the lookout for Jesus. Axe to the head? Just for having to listen to all the a******s that took these notions based on his bollocks.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Jan 8th 2013, 12:38 PM

    Ah good ol’ St JPII, Patron Saint and Protector of Paedophiles. Without him (and his henchman, Ratzinger), priest might have been brought to justice.

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    Mute Liz (10) (^_^)
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    Jan 8th 2013, 3:14 PM

    Here here, I miss JPII

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    Mute Barbara Ledwidge
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    Jan 8th 2013, 10:02 AM

    Is this pic above Pope Daniel Day Lewis ?

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    Mute Mick Curtin
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    Jan 8th 2013, 6:11 PM

    I can’t believe so much attention is being paid to this dinosaur pontiff and the pronouncements of the catholic church in general. This grossly powerful and wealthy institution deserves to be ignored and even told to ‘shut up’!!!

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    Mute Shane Mc Donnell
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    Jan 8th 2013, 10:16 AM

    What facts do u want Peter? About the poll and vigil? It was about a month ago I don’t have facts but I have no reason to lie either! Under no circumstances will abortion be legalised “fully” here, it will in time “under certain circumstances”

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    Mute Peter Mc
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    Jan 8th 2013, 10:27 AM

    Who conducted the poll? What was the sample?Where was it published? Otherwise just posting some numbers is unhelpful and frankly pointless.

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    Mute T
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    Jan 8th 2013, 12:48 PM

    The Pope is correct end of.

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    Mute Barbara Ledwidge
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    Jan 8th 2013, 1:13 PM

    For his own followers yes, not for the rest of us

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    Mute Steve Herron
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    Jan 8th 2013, 1:21 PM

    Why?

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    Mute Michele Savage
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    Jan 8th 2013, 6:13 PM

    ….. end of all rational thought!

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    Mute Maria Conroy Byrne
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    Jan 9th 2013, 10:01 AM

    Human rights are for everyone, not just Catholics!

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    Mute Michele Savage
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    Jan 8th 2013, 6:11 PM

    When popes, their entourage, and all advisors can and do become pregnant, then their opinions on the matter might possibly be considered.

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    Mute Gerry Campbell
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    Jan 8th 2013, 1:30 PM

    If the bishops don’t stop turning Sunday mass into political soap box sessions about abortion Sunday after Sunday , the few that are going to mass will disappear ….

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    Mute Maria Conroy Byrne
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    Jan 9th 2013, 9:50 AM

    I doubt that. In my parish, people are always complaining that priests and bishops don’t speak enough about controversial issues.

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    Mute Peter Richardson
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    Jan 9th 2013, 9:23 AM

    The Pope’s out of touch and dogmatic views would be a matter of irrelevance if it were not for the malign influence of the Vatican and the Institution of the Roman Catholic Church on Irish public opinion.

    Religion needs to be taken out of the law.

    The Vatican must not be permitted to dictate the provisions of the Irish Constitution or of Irish law.

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    Mute Susanna Smyth
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    Jan 9th 2013, 1:44 PM

    Abortion is legal in Italy up to 3 months. Maybe the pope could confine his meddling in state affairs closer to home

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    Mute Shane Mc Donnell
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    Jan 8th 2013, 9:41 AM

    Can’t remember! Was one month ago online! Just a quick glance at numbers I had! Oh there was a poll done alrite! Think it was 22, 645 in relation to 2, 685

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    Mute Peter Mc
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    Jan 8th 2013, 10:08 AM

    Thanks Shane, that’s the facts we were looking for.

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    Mute Michele Savage
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    Jan 8th 2013, 6:16 PM

    At what stage of their lives were popes separated from their moms?

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    Mute Michele Savage
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    Jan 8th 2013, 6:29 PM

    The pre-born are deemed so precious, but the following questions need to be asked: 1. What is the track record of inclusion of children with special needs in Catholic schools in the U.S.?nn2. Are any Catholic folk with special needs precluded from partaking in the religious sacraments in the U.S.?

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    Mute Maria Conroy Byrne
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    Jan 9th 2013, 10:00 AM

    Are any children with special needs aborted by the thousands? Down’s Syndrome is a case in point!

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    Mute Barbara Ledwidge
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    Jan 8th 2013, 12:05 PM

    Ah Journal, the picture of Daniel was more pleasing to the eye

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    Mute joejoeg
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    Jan 9th 2013, 6:20 PM

    They should keep their noses out of this country’s affairs considering they’re the organisation that caused a lot of suffering in this country ie sexual abuse

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    Mute Helen Duffy
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    Jan 8th 2013, 5:34 PM

    The Pope does not the represent Jesus, he representents The Anti-Christ / False Prophet who is the apostle Paul. He is a nobody he has no power only the power he gives himself. All Churches are Churches of The Anti-Christ as they all have Paul.

    `A last minute guide to the Bible` http://www.lastminutebibleguide.capnix.com

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    Mute Liz (10) (^_^)
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    Jan 8th 2013, 3:11 PM

    My god, the news screening department in the Vatican would want to hurry up. The Pope is like a month behind the rest of the world news wise.

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    Mute Declan Fitzsimons
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    Jan 8th 2013, 4:47 PM

    Liz, benny and his babbling buffoons are centuries behind reality.

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