Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
A GROUP WHICH campaigns for the equal inclusion of women and LGBT people in the Catholic church says it has been discriminated against in its application to be part of the World Meeting of Families.
Pope Francis is travelling to Ireland for two days next month to be part of the event but the church here has already been forced to deny that same-sex couples are being excluded.
Speaking last week, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin said that same-sex issues would be discussed during a pastoral congress in Dublin’s RDS held as part of the WMOF.
In a statement today, however, We Are Church Ireland said it applied back in February to have a stand in the RDS, and even paid a deposit, but did not receive a written response.
The group said that it followed this up with numerous calls every fortnight and were repeatedly told that their application was received but was “on hold”.
“As no information was forthcoming, on the 25 May we sent a registered letter to Fr Tim Bartlett, Secretary General of the WMOF and copied it to Dr Diarmuid Martin, Archbishop of Dublin and president of WMOF, asking for the courtesy of a decision on our application. Both these letters were also ignored,” We Are Church spokesperson Brendan Butler said today.
To add insult to injury on the 5 June we received a circular email from the WMOF advertising the fact that stands were still available and inviting applications. Still having received no decision by the middle of July, and with the WMOF’s own deadlines having expired, we finally cancelled our deposit.
The group says WMOF acted in a “discriminatory manner” and without “the most basic courtesy” in how they handled the application.
Speaking on RTÉ’s News at One today, journalist and We Are Church Ireland activist Ursula Halligan said that she feels the archbishop has not kept his word.
“We’re really disappointed because we were looking forward to taking part in the World Meeting of Families and to welcoming Pope Francis to Ireland. And we took Archbishop Diarmuid Martin at his word when he said all are welcome, he was even on Marian Finucane’s show yesterday saying the very same thing, but clearly this isn’t the case,” Halligan said.
TheJournal.ie has asked the organisers of the World Meeting of Families for a response to the allegations made by We Are Church Ireland.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Let me get this straight , a group who doctrine looks on as being immoral , still wants to be in this club .
@Ken Hayden: you could have put more thought into your first 5 words.
@Matt Connolly: I did . However I’m embarrassed to be up here , @Derek Walsh should be up here .
: funny without even realising it ..
@Ken Hayden:
Hilarious really. Bit like the Christian bakery scenario, LBTG groups going out of their way to be offended. If they want some religion in their lives then why not join the Anglican Church or one of those liberal groups masquerading as religion.
@Jimmy Coltrane: I don’t know, that whole thing smells a bit discriminatory. If they were a genuine Catholic organisation then it’s vert, very unfair to be treating them this way. Many, many Catholics in this country voted for SSM and abortion to be legalised should people that supported the yes side on those be banned from attending?
@Ken Hayden: its there club is the point there trying to make the church is the peoples church not priests with rules and regulations fair play to the group trying to wake up the masses to take there church back
@Ken Hayden: first 5 words spot on.
Why would you even want to be involved?
@Tim The Bear:
Their acronym seems appropriate – W.A.C.I.
“LGBT Catholics” makes as much sense to me as “Jewish Nazis.”
@Derek Walsh Ⓥ: I bet Martin Luther was in a fan club when he was young .
@Derek Walsh Ⓥ: The pope wears a dress. does that make him a transgender?
@Derek Walsh Ⓥ: Are you saying LGBT are analogous to nazis? There are many LGBT who possess a religious faith. Those who view this as absurd aren’t much better than the Catholic Church which views LGBT with contempt and suspicion.
@Sean Conway: The pope doesn’t wear a dress. He wears a cassock. It’s the uniform of his position and is not typically worn by women.
Also a man wearing a dress is not transgender. That’s just a cross-dresser (or transvestite).
@Peter: No, I’m saying Catholics are analogous to Nazis and LGBT people analogous to Jews. That should have been obvious. I think most people got it.
I’m certainly not saying that LGBT people can’t be religious. But I question why they would want to be part of an organisation that considers them intrinsically disordered.
@Sean Conway:
Recognition, exclusion, discrimination, inclusion, diversification, ethnicity, multi this, multi that, neo this, neo that…Can people not just get on with things for crying out loud??? Every 2nd “news” item in Ireland seems to be one group or another trying to outdo the previous crew…seriously, we are losing the run of ourselves! ( ps. And i am NOT at all having a go at people/ campaigns which are of serious concern to people eg health issues, etc). No. Its those other ” agendas” that i am fed up listening to whingeing…( i feel the onslaught coming!!)
@Margate: oh those other “agendas” that don’t suit your narrative. Fk off over to Breitbart or Fox News and you’ll get what you’re looking for over there.
@Ian Walsh: That’s a bit harsh .
@Ken Hayden: it is a bit harsh, I agree. But I stand by it.
@Ian Walsh: That’s fair enough , it’s your opinion . Margate , who i believe is a woman , was just voicing hers .
That can be the problem with discourse on here , she gave you her take on things , and you tell her to F off .
@Margate: exclusion and discrimination are issues that people are very right to complain about to be fair.
@Ken Hayden: I have my response to her public comment. So what the fk is your issue? If people share their opinions publicly they can expect a response to them. They might not like the response, but such is life.
@Ian Walsh: This person doesn’t seem to be able to get past one sentence without being abusive or using foul language; a waste to even bother engaging as no respect for any view contrary to his own – which is still v unclear..
@Margate: to be fair, you’re original comment showed a lack of respect for those different to you as well
In all fairness the catholic faith sees being gay as unholy of course they aren’t going to be recognized.
Also only males are seen as being priests, women should be listened too by males are head of the house/faith.
You don’t like the religion go make your own, choose which books and which translations fit your agenda, the books that don’t, don’t add them simple.
Religion isn’t pick and choose what you like and what you don’t. You can believe in god and not be catholic.
@Lily: except Catholicism is the very definition of pick and choose. The Bible has as many books left out as put in. And as our recent referenda results show while we have a Catholics majority we also have a majority willing to defy the church.
@Dave O Keeffe: So if Ian Paisley called himself Roman Catholic that would make him Roman Catholic? After all he believed most of the same stuff a Catholic believes. The first Protestants were still Catholic at least for a time. Ursula Halligan is a gob not a Catholic.
@Patrick Gormley: how exactly did you draw that conclusion from my comment?
@Dave O Keeffe: not sure how you work that out. 1 in 3 voted to keep 8th. Same ratio as attend church weekly
@Margaret Hickey: and what percentage of our population consider themselves Catholic? Or better yet, what percentage do the church claim? It’s 78.3% by the way. Weekly attendance is t the only way to practice, god is everywhere remember?
More perpetual campaigning, more screaming for attention, more faux victimhood….
When will it stop from an umbrella organisation that defines their character from one single element of their makeup (sexuality) and excludes hetrosexuals.
It is you that sets yourself apart from others, most people could care less who you choose as your partner.
Maybe visit Afghanistan if you’re looking for a challenge.
@David McShite: That was exactly my thinking. A fake group to generate some more outrage and make a few more wannabe social justice heroes.
@David McShite: The LGBT activists are excluding homosexuals? Ridiculous comment! Also, presume you meant couldn’t care less, but your typo/incorrect use of language is apt. As for try Afghanistan if you want a challenge, again really? You could use that line after almost any complaint against the government/church/human rights issue. It’s comments like that that stunt the growth of human civilisation.
@Sarah Connor: Take off the shades Sarah and read what I actually said.
Take it slowly and correct your mistakes that I didn’t make.
I thought helping the kids with their homework was finished for the summer.
@David McShite: I did read your comment, very vague attempt to defend it.
@David McShite: “could care less” you must be american. It’s ” couldn’t care less”.
That shows you could not care less about something. “could care less” indicates that you could care to a lesser degree, thats not an insuinating statement. It’s like saying ” I kind’a care about…(whatever topic).
They may have been ignored, but I don’t see any evidence of discrimination yet. I’d also doubt this is within the control of the Archbishop. Someone more senior in the Vatican will make that call.
I thought Panti was their spiritual leader anyway?
@Skeptical: Not since he proved himself to be quite intelligent, open-minded and other-regarding. Who needs that?
Apart from the roads , the sanitation and the education system , what have the Romans ever done for us .
@Ken Hayden: cared for our fallen women?
@Ken Hayden: The Romans left us lots of Latin vocabulary and a sense of grammar, such as the Ablative Absolute: his dictis.
@Ken Hayden: Did the Romans not invent currency or democracy?
Does Leo find this petty and mean spirited? As he commented in relation to the Say Nope to The Pope campaign ?
@Kev O’Donoghue: That would be an ecumenical matter .
I feel the real question someone should be asking is why are they surprised and why the tax payer is being forced to contribute to the whole sad show.
If only someone would stand up and ask these questions!
@Kevi Gallagher:The tax payer was able to pay for the Queens visit and the big show at Shannon airport , before Mr Trump was president , So we can afford same for Pope
@Mick Cullen: they are recognised heads of state. Not heads of the “we peddle fairy stories corporation”.
@Gerard Smith: Donald Trump was not a head of state at the time ,
@Gerard Smith: the Vatican is a state so the pope is a head of state whether you like it or not.
It’s grandstanding. A pressure-group with much sympathy in the Media & the Liberal Intellectual Elite (LIE !) acts to mischieviously provoke an institution that holds incompatible views. Then they jump into “the victim position” & their chums in the media create the planned clamour & furore. It’s how LIE works. The truth is they are highly intolerant & hate-filled themselves. They have just moved the goalposts & the targets. Anti-Catholic is the last respectable prejudice.
Look at me, I’m gay! I’m gay! Please don’t ignore me I hate that..
@Carnac: on a totally different note! I note your name is Carnac…why so if you don’t mind me asking? We just back from a great holiday there- for about the 5 th time.
Why are they surprised , what I want to know is why are We the tax payer being forced to contribute to the whole sad show !!!!
@Deirdre Gosson: Say again.
@Beale GAA: she did, as Kevin. (don’t judge, it’s called fluidity).
@Deirdre Gosson: probably the same reason Catholics are expected to finance abortion
@Deirdre Gosson: same reason Catholics are expected to pay for abortion etc.
Are they stupid or something? The church regards them as intrinsically disordered and doesn’t want them. Why bother?
@Pharmyco: Change comes from the inside , if you’re not a member of the church , you won’t be able to change it .
Which means the whole premise was a load of bull to begin with .
@Ken Hayden: The church offers you it’s view of the world, all religions do.
It’s up to you whether or not you wish to subscribe to that view (I do not btw)
It is a doctrine which by very definition is unchangeable.
Just leave it be and accept that people see things differently.
@David McShite: I don’t want to change the catholic church , I don’t talk about it to any of my friends or family .
If someones beliefs aren’t hurting me , I say leave them too it .
@Ken Hayden: Apologies Ken.
I misread your post as a defense of a Trojan Horse infiltration into The RCC when it was clearly the opposite.
@David McShite: All good Dave . The church is part of my culture , it’s just not a bit I celebrate anymore .
What did you expect from a man who speaks from both sides of his mouth at once..!
This is a difficult one but as someone who previously engaged in same sex relationships, I can’t for the life of me understand why they are seeking membership of the Catholic church as LGBT. It is very clear that homosexuality is marked out as being in opposition to the faith but as long as they recognize and understand that forgiveness comes through repentance then I imagine there would be no issue in being in attendance. Peace
@talithakoum: Its about manipulating the Church to further an ideology and spread confusion. It does not matter to them if it fits the faith or not as long as they get their own way. It is because the Church is an information system that it is a target. Bizarrely enough many LGBT are as pro LGBT celibacy as the Church and that is never mentioned.
@Patrick Gormley: You do talk some shyte.
@Ian Walsh: succinctly put. Massive, humongous tubes of it!
Did they really think the response would be anything other than what it is?
The Catholic Church is very clear in its views re LGBT issues…. and of course they could not facilitate such an openly LGBT group… and it’s totally and fundamentally misogynistic…. however the current incumbent wants to present himself….
We are Church strike me as well meaning, most likely sincere, but utterly naive and possibly deluded, if they thought they were going to be allowed a stand at the RDS…
That said, the cowardice and disrespect displayed by Bartlett and co… is inexcusable.
Whether from without or within the more cracks there are in the facade of the Vatican the better.
Why are they surprised , what I want to know is why are We the tax payer being forced to contribute to the whole sad show !!!!
When will you learn? You can’t be Catholic and gay. Or think for yourself
@Kevin Slater: Openly gay . I met lots of gay Brothers in school , they just didn’t realise it .
@Kevin Slater: You can as long as you agree that it is a sin to be sexually active. If people start messing around with religious definitions and start calling anything Catholic no matter how unChristian or unbiblical or antibiblical history or sociology will cease to function. Catholic and Protestant will be redefined into thin air.
@Ken Hayden: many did realize it but denied their own truth- some became viciously gay hating- self hating in truth.
@Patrick Gormley: great plan! Let’s get defining!
Why are they surprised , what I want to know is why are We the tax payer being forced to contribute to the whole sad show !!!!
Holy moly
Why are they surprised , what I want to know is why are We the tax payer being forced to contribute to the whole sad show !!!!
@Deirdre Gosson: I would say it’s because the majority of the population identify as being catholic , and they pay the most tax .
@Ken Hayden: Where did you get those notions from?
@Ian Walsh: The census Ian . Don’t blame me , you can look it up yourself .
@Ian Walsh: Did you have some other notion ?
@Ken Hayden: The question asked on the census is “What is your religion?” It doesn’t ask what religion do you identify as. That would be moronic.
@Ian Walsh: Wow , my bad . I’ve probably being reading the journal for too long and have been brainwashed , you just shook me out of it .
Of course we can’t identify as something we weren’t born as , that would be moronic .
@Ken Hayden: Its all down to the Census form Roman Catholic box being ticked
@Ken Hayden: lol Ken you nailed it.
@Ken Hayden: the census is a flawed measure of religiosity. Plenty of ppl made a mistake cos atheist wasnt on it. Plenty of mammies then ticked Catholic for young Mary or Dennis down the pub. People who,like myself appreciate being culturally Christian but do not have a faith ticked Catholic. Less ppl are attending mass in many parts of Ireland than do in Spain and Spain is largely more secular.
The majority of these people were likely indoctrinated into the church through no choice of their own long before they ever knew what sexuality was. They obviously built a close affiliation for the church during those years before discovering their sexuality…which is what the church wanted. Then after years they are told that they don’t fit the bill and I’m not surprised that they have an issue with it. The pope recently said that he wants a more ‘adult’ regime. He could start with recognising that sexuality differences are and have always been a part of humanity. If you don’t want those people in your church, stop indoctrinating children and then later rejecting them as being ‘wrong’ in some way. It’s a very harmful way to behave.
Its a 2000 year old religion that has always discriminated against homosexuals. The text isn’t going to change. It was written when they thought the world was flat and epilepsy was demonic possession. Why would anyone want to be part of a belief system that discriminates against them. It’s baffling the unwavering support the Catholic church gets from people just because their parents told them they should and their parents before that. The church literally covered up institutional child abuse and people still defend them
Why are they surprised , what I want to know is why are We the tax payer being forced to contribute to the whole sad show !!!!
Why are they surprised , what I want to know is why are We the tax payer being forced to contribute to the whole sad show !!!!
@Deirdre Gosson:because that’s the way countries work Deidre we contribute to a lot of things we don’t agree with.its called society Im sure the there would be a lot of people that are against there taxes paying for abortions but they’ll have to accept it as well
@matthew o reilly: a majority are against public funding of this farce so said most recent polls submitted to.. I’m fairly sure it was rte
Seems odd to me that God would make his own children unacceptable to him
@Dave O Keeffe: The lord works in mysterious ways .
If they’re Catholics you’d think they’d know the Catholic Church believes their lifestyle is immoral. Maybe consider worshiping the God they believe in without supporting the organisation that deems them (and many other decent people) sinners.
@Sarah Connor: did they know that when they were small kids in catholic primary schools? The reason they want to be a part of the church is that the church itself created that need – and later wants to reject them. According to the church’s own teachings, Jesus was a ‘fisher of men’. He wasn’t noted for throwing them back if they turned out to be the wrong type of fish. Far from it. So the church could either take a stance of acceptance of this part of humanity as they claim Jesus did. Or they could only accept adults into their churches. They can’t have it both ways.
@Sarah Connor: All sex is deemed unholy in the Catholic church, marriage was created to rubber stamp children born to that couple. Although the Catholic church owned brothels once to help monks not be gay???
Islam would never ignore LGBT I’m pretty sure, just those evil Catholics.
@Carnac: The only way Islam accepts gays is that with men, one of the men has to be castrated… Pedophilia has nothing to day with any form of adult sex but its rife in Christianity and in Islam…
@TamuMassif2019: rife with Christianity..? Sorry I think you mean Catholicism. You should study the history of that church when it was founded, because its all mans ideologies and almost nothing biblical. It was actually formed about 500yrs after christ and has evolved since adding their own rituals and beliefs which actually contradict the bible. a true Christian believes church doesn’t get you to heaven, baby baptisms, dont get you to heaven, praying to saints, to priests, priest confessions, good works, prayer repetition. a true christian believes its only through jesus and believing and accepting hi and thats it. Jesus never came asking for us to do all these silly things. he also said all our good works are like filthy rags before god, emphasising there is no good in us that can make a way to heaven as our sins outway everything else, which is why he laid down his perfect spotless life as a substitute for us. Catholicism is far for the simple gospel christ came to share as well as the original disciples
Why would you want to be in a club that doesn’t want you?.. Religion makes people do stupid things.
@Dave Thomas: This is more about highlighting their sexuality than their religious devotion I would surmise.
Tom hourigan what sort of comment is that coming from an ex manager of a limerick hospital as I see from your Facebook page you are anti Catholic I’ve reported your comments
@adams: I don’t understand your point, you didn’t explain at all! Let’s be clear about this. I am not anti-Catholic or indeed anti-any other religion. I am certainly anti-paedophilia, wherever it may be found, no apologies for that, and it is appalling how much has been uncovered to date within the RC clergy – that is a simple fact. That point of view has nothing whatsover to do with my professional life prior to my retirement. None. I detect a rather large chip on your shoulder! Report this if you wish, no problem. I will not comment any further on anymore that you may have to say on this matter. Best Wishes.
I aint a catholic. But seriously, you cant pick and choose what you want to believe in a Bible. If you believe it to be the word of god, then the text is absolute and it contradicts your ideologies as a LGBT Catholic.
@Nick Cassidy: of course you can ? If we followed the friggin old testament then we’d believe in stoning like the lunatics in the desert do. Also divorced ppl taking communion ?
@Nick Cassidy: anyone would know by your lack of knowledge and factual information that you are not a Catholic. Why are so many non-catholics always discussing and going on about the Catholic Church – Amazing!
I’m amazed (well after all this time I shouldn’t be) at the ignorance of The Journal and its commenters.
We Are Church is not an LGBT group or organisation. Its simply a group of Catholics who do not subscribe to the more exclusionary views of the Roman Church. To say its LGBT or to imply that in comments is erroneous.
Secondly, I’m not surprised to read the usual anti LGBT comments here. Sadly any article on this topic is met with the usual narrow mindedness of the regular commentators here. Thankfully the cross section of the population represented by The Journals commenters is not representative of the majority of society in this country today.
The Catholic Churches manual is suppose to be the Bible, the only way for the Catholic Church to change is to ignore the Bible or parts of it but they exist because of the Bible. It’s the sheep telling the shepherds to become like them as in sheep and leaderless as the Catholic church would see it?
Should the minority tell the majority that their belief system is better than the majorities and change everything on everyone or is it handier for them to leave because they don’t agree with that belief system. Do you join a club to change it to your own views or just set up a club based on your own views instead? That is the question?
@TamuMassif2019: its suppose to be the manual. But if they actually read it that would be a different story. You shall have no idols before me(Stop praying to dead people). Thinking Mary is amazing, she even said ti herself she was a sinner “Even I myself need a saviour”, there are 100′s more of those.
Just read Matthew 9:9 for me please I dare you.
Secondly homosexuality is a sin from a biblical view, no different to stealing, lying, adultery etc. But one cannot force that on others as they need to see and understand for themselves that a lifestyle is sinful according to the bible. But we are all sinners, even christians. only a personal walk and relationship with god will convict a person to walk away from a sinful life, not someone shouting down at you or pointing fingers. Christ came, he showed love, mercy and compassion through that people where changed and transformed form their sinful lives and thats how a christian must be. I dont support LGBT, But i hope you see my heart in this and why I dont agree, but it doesn’t mean I hate them. One of my best friends is a homosexual, we hangout, grab food etc.does that make me a homophobe..?
I’m sick of this shite, corruption, greed, abuse, degradation, NO MORE!!
have your say