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“MAMMA, COME AND save me,” screams the Dublin teenager on the recorded telephone message. “They’re killing me, they’re torturing me.”
Imagine a 19-year-old Irish citizen – for the sake of stereotype let’s say he’s a pale, foxy-haired Irish young fella by the name of Sean Murphy from Firhouse – being held in a Cairo prison for nineteen months. One of our own.
Sean’s treatment has been roundly condemned as a human rights abuse and Sean’s family alleges he has been tortured. Imprisoned without trial for – as of today – 620 days and subjected to multiple hearing delays. There was concern of late that Sean was possibly being held in a ‘Death Penalty Cell’ in the notorious Egyptian prison to which he was transferred recently. Yes, if convicted, Sean faces a possible death penalty.
His crime was to attend an anti-government, pro-democracy rally.
Partaking in a protest hardly merits his death
This is, to be honest, a pretty fantastical scenario. It seems highly unlikely that we would tolerate the caging without trial of a young Irish citizen for such a length of time. Even those of us who would say he had no business getting involved in a political protest in a land not of his birth, would probably concede that Sean would hardly be the first Irish person to do something ill-advised in their youth – either at home or overseas – and that partaking in a pro-democracy protest hardly merits his death.
It’s unlikely we would have let things reach the point where we would need to picket the Egyptian embassy, but had we need to, we’d probably all be outside 12 Cyde Road in Ballsbridge, with our placards calling for Sean’s release, to musical accompaniment by the likes of Damien Dempsey or Glenn Hansard.
Chances are, though, our Government would have long-since stepped meaningfully in and Sean would be on his way home to his loving (if hypothetical) family, who – because they’re stereotypically Irish too – are all pale of face and red of hair. Sean’s tearful Mam might tell Miriam O’Callaghan that she will never – to her dying day – hear a bad word against Enda Kenny, the Taoiseach who picked up the phone and asked President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi for a personal favour. The man who saved Sean’s life.
You know where I’m going with this. “Sean” isn’t actually a thought experiment. “Sean” is a real Irish citizen but his name isn’t Sean. He’s not pale or red-haired either. He is, however, 19 years old and he’s in very serious trouble. He has suffered terrible abuse. He could well be put to death. The question is, though, do we care?
The Halawa siblings were arrested
Ibrahim Halawa was born in the Coombe. He plays GAA and speaks Irish. He lived in Ireland all his life. He was 17 and studying for his Leaving Cert in 2013 when he went to Egypt for the summer with his family. As an Irish citizen who does not hold dual-nationality, Ibrahim had to pay for a visa to enter Egypt.
While there, he and his sisters became involved in a protest against the ousting of Egypt’s democratically-elected president, Mohamed Morsi. When security forces opened fire, Ibrahim and his sisters sought sanctuary in the Al Fath mosque.
Egyptian authorities claim that they were shot at by protesters who sought sanctuary in the mosque. Amnesty International, which had observers on the ground, says this claim is
unfounded. Security forces further claim they were shot at from the minaret of the Al Fath mosque. When Imbrahim and his sisters were arrested, they were found locked into the inner sanctum of Al Fath – an impossible distance, under hostile gunfire, from the minaret.
The security forces stormed the mosque and during that assault Ibrahim was shot in the hand. In the 21 months since, his only treatment was given to him by a cellmate, by chance a doctor. Imagine – if you can – a wound of that magnitude left without proper attention for nearly two years.
“A cut-and-paste charge”
Ibrahim’s sisters were granted bail – it seems because they are women – and they were allowed to leave Egypt. They say Ibrahim was stripped naked and beaten with chains before being charged – along with 494 other men – with murder, attempted murder and illegal protest. Murder and attempted murder are crimes punishable by execution under Egyptian law.
Amnesty International’s Colm O’Gorman dismisses these charges as “a cut-and-paste charge applied to hundreds of other people. He is being detained purely for peacefully exercising his right to freedom of expression and freedom of assembly.”
Despite the fact that Ibrahim has never asserted Egyptian nationality, Egypt says he is an Egyptian national – because his parents are Egyptian. Egypt certainly didn’t view him as an Egyptian national when they made him buy a visa – as an Irish national – to enter Egypt on every occasion he has visited the country. (Racists on the internet say Ibrahim tore up his Irish passport. Not so, according to Amnesty International. It was confiscated when he was arrested. Not, of course, that facts usually impede racists on the internet.)
The Department of Foreign Affairs says it is doing all it can, a claim which Amnesty International says it accepts. In recent months, Canada’s Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Australia’s Prime Minister Tony Abbott successfully lobbied President el-Sisi to release their citizens. Where is our prime minister? A spokesperson for the Taoiseach says he is “across the situation”. Whatever that means.
Is our problem with Ibrahim Halawa that he’s not Sean Murphy?
I mentioned Sean Murphy’s mam. She has the luxury of being a fictional character. Whenever Ibrahim’s mama gets to visit her son, she queues for hours in the 40 degree heat outside the dreaded Wadi al Natrun prison. Because Ibrahim would otherwise go hungry, she brings with her whatever food she thinks won’t spoil in the heat. Before he ended up in prison, Ibrahim – like many an Irish young fella – hadn’t a clue how to cook. Taught by a cellmate, Ibrahim now swears that if he gets out, he’ll cook his mama the finest meal she’s ever had.
An Irish citizen has been held without trial for 620 days – and counting – on what objective human rights professionals call trumped-up charges. He has been subjected to multiple trial delays and – allegedly – torture. He could very well be executed for the heinous crime of protesting for democracy.
Why are we not picketing the Egyptian embassy?
Is our problem with Ibrahim Halawa that he’s not Sean Murphy? That he isn’t pale and red-haired? That he doesn’t fit our idea of an Irish citizen? Is Ibrahim too “foreign” to consider Irish? Too Muslim? Too brown?
An Irish citizen is in trouble. One of our own. We need to start caring and caring now. We need to pick up the phone and ask our TDs to make noise. We need our Taoiseach to pick up the phone and ask President el-Sisi for a personal favour.
We need, all of us, to try and save a young Irishman’s life.
Donal O’Keeffe is a writer, artist and columnist for TheJournal.ie. He tweets as @Donal_OKeeffe.
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Want to do some real reporting and post the video of his political speeches in front of thousands while he was on a family holiday??
Thousands of Egyptians cared about the opinions of an Irish teenage kid?!
He spoke at a pro democracy rally? Well then he obviously deserves nearly two years of torture & incarceration.
A great article highlighting the shamefully racist repose of both our government and the ignorant posters here.
And before someone responds with the ‘well he tore up his Irish passport’ routine, can they please provide a link?
An irish citizen when it suits him
An Irish citizen, under Irish law. Full stop.
@ Graham
This is the type of ‘democracy’ that he went there to support:
http://www.cihrs.org/?p=6849&lang=en
“One year after Morsi became president, it is now clear that the priority of the presidency—and, of course, the Muslim Brotherhood —was to firmly establish the underpinnings for a new authoritarian regime in place of the Mubarak regime. It is no surprise, therefore, that the past year witnessed widespread human rights crimes, on a scale that rivalled than under the Mubarak regime. The brutal suppression of political and social protest movements did not cease; indeed, the security forces are no longer the only party to use of excessive force against demonstrators, as MB supporters have also been given free rein to use violence to punish and intimidate their opponents, including through torture and even killings.”
“He spoke at a pro democracy rally?”
No, he spoke at a pro-MB rally. A rally supporting an organisation which is banned in a number of countries for their extreme interpretations of Islam and track record of supporting terrorism.
He was protesting for Sharia law, not democracy.
If he broke Irish law, then throw the book at him when he returns.
He is an Egyptian citizen in Egypt. That’s to me is the most important fact here. If he was arrested in Iran then I would hope either or both of his host countries would help but how can Ireland tell Egypt how to treat one of their own citizens.
@Graham – the response of many commenters here has nothing to do with racism – the favourite catch all phrase of the PC left.
Graham, I am not sure you could call Sharia law democratic!
If he was Sean Molotov, an Irish citizen with Russian grandparents, interned in Russia without trial for 2 years for breaching Putin’s “gay propaganda” laws, opinions here would be different.
Meaning what Richard?
He called his mammy “mamma”.
His name can’t be Sean.
“If he broke Irish law, then throw the book at him when he returns.”
That’s not how it works Diarmuid.
Diarmuid regarding your comment ““If he broke Irish law, then throw the book at him when he returns.”
does that also apply to other countries like Egypt?
Look here he is giving that speech in front of a banner that reads ‘Egyptians abroad for democracy’. http://youtu.be/-cn09s-Fq5s hardly inciting sharia law now is he?
If he broke Irish criminal law, terrorism law, citizenship law… then throw the book at him.
This country has a higher rule of law and respect for human rights than an unelected military dictatorship. Shocking how many commenters here are calling for a respect of Egyptian “law”, which was literally parachuted in with no mandate days before the arrest.
This country has higher standards for respecting the rule of law and human rights than a military coup. We should be proud of that fact.
Graham, you seriously need to take a look at what Morsi did during his short time in power. Yes, he was democratically elected but he then set about systematically dismantling democracy and suppressing his opponents.
Democracy is not just about winning elections, its about actions (unless you think that 51 foxes voting to eat 49 chickens is democratic).
Diarmuid, when you go to another country you do so in the knowledge that it’s their country and their laws. If you don’t like the laws of the country then don’t go.
Wayne. Look at that video again. It shows either the stage or the crowd. It has obviously been badly stitched together. Yes, he seemed to be talking on a stage, but I would very much doubt it was to that crowd.
Brian, so this country should discard its citizens the minute they leave its shores? Irish people routinely travel to dozens of countries with suspect/contemptible laws… This country has a duty to treat its citizens equitably and to provide consular assistance when its citizens are in peril. Even to misguided/stupid teenagers
Diarmuid, consular assistance should be provided but we shouldn’t be telling them how to run their courts or country. What would be your attitude if a Saudi man was convicted of stealing here in Ireland and the Saudi Government demanded that we chop his hand off?
Did you not read the article he isnt an Egyptian citizen only irish!
If Sean Murphy was protesting for the imposition of Sharia law in a foreign country and ended up getting imprisoned for his part in the protest, well then Sean Murphy could rot for all I care.
This puff piece is the latest in a long series of joke articles regarding this MB apparratchik.
Brian, we have a deep respect for the rule of law and human rights in this country. So you believe we should ignore when foreign states abuse the human rights of our citizens?
Would you apply the same logic to the UK’s torture of Irish citizens in the 1970/1980s? Their country, their laws, not our place to comment…
People say he tore up his Irish Passport but ive yet to see firm confirmation of this. Irish people do love to exaggerate. What ive heard from the government is the Egyptian police took his Irish passport off him when arrested.
I agree. But let’s get him home to explain where he and his family stand on the brotherhood and if their allegiance is to Ireland or a sharia law state.
Funny Diarmuid, all of a sudden you’ve come over all Republican when it suits you!. Trying to confuse the issue with UK human rights violations won’t work in this case. Halawa is in a foreign country of his own volition and proudly spoke of taking part in demonstrations while “on holidays”. The consul should make sure he has access to a lawyer and that he is being treated the same as every other person charged with the same crime. If Egypts laws are shite that’s not our problem that’s theirs as it is their country. If we want to change them then it is done at a diplomatic level not on an individual basis.
Funny Brian, I’ve always been republican. An Irish citizen arrested and tortured in England then… nothing confusing about that.
Good to see you agree consular assistance should be given to this individual and that we can lobby at a diplomatic level for his release, that’s more than others here are arguing.
@annie unless thats sarcasm, did you not read the article? It says egypt is treating him as a citizen because his parents are egyptian. Even though he did not assert nationality he is treated as a dual citizen, when it comes to law he is treated as a egyptian.all those details available before you travel.
Under international law ireland cannot interfer.
Maybe Sean should have just gone to Santa Ponsa……
An Egyptian under Egyptian law.
I don’t agree at all , your ‘let it be’ attitude is ridiculous and helps nobody.. Your example is further ridiculous because we have a modern and progressive way of dealing with (most) crimes here so the Saudis wouldn’t have to get involved. It would have been quite easy for someone to pick up the phone and do what other PMs have done, so far this has not happened though, what people can’t understand is why not? If you see him as Egyptian fair enough, but any man who legitimately calls himself Irish is as Irish as I am and deserves national support!
Diarmuid, I have no problem with him getting consular assistance as he is an Irish citizen however I would inform him that as an Irish citizen he had no business interfering in the internal affairs of a foreign country. The same would apply to me if I went to Ukraine and pulled the same stunt with the Russian backed rebel forces. I have no business there and no one to blame but myself if I am stupid enough to ignore all warnings not to go into a politically unstable hot zone, never mind speaking at rallys and taking part in demonstrations.
If he wants to to claim Egyptian citizenship he has to obey Egyptian laws and stop bothering the Irish authorities. Either way I’m afraid that the consul over there could be forgiven for thinking that he made his own bed, so now he will have to sleep in it.
This farce of attempting to insunate that to not support Ibrahim Halawa is akin to racism is nothing short of a disgrace.
It has been established as factual that both he and his sisters travelled to Egypt in the Summer of 2013 a month before their arrest to support the ousted ex Muslim Brotherhood president Morsi. There is plenty of evidence for this, photographs and videos of them saying they are prepared to use violence if need be, Ibrahim himself said he had been injured and it wouldn’t deter him. They supported the Muslim Brotherhood and had hoped to have Morsi reinstated as president, they were prepared to use violence to achieve this. Morsi had become a dictator and had almost distroyed Egypt within a year, that was why the people and military acted and ousted him.
Claims by the Halawa family that the Irish government are doing nothing, Ibrahim is being tortured and is being held in a death row cell have been rubbished by Charlie Flanaghan. They have been investigated by the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs who visit Ibrahim regularly. Charlie Flanaghan himself made it clear Ibrahim has NOT been tortured, is Not held in a death row cell and his officials keep in regular contact. Yet despite all this the Halawa’s persist in their lies.
I don’t know about everyone else, but if I catch someone lying once, twice maybe three times I accept they’re going to lie to me about pretty much everything, and that has been the case here. From day one this family have lied and continue to lie.
Brian, I generally agree with your last comment. Basic consular assistance, some diplomatic lobbying etc. If he returns to Ireland he should be scolded for ignoring DFA travel advice and prosecuted if he has broken any Irish laws.
Paddy likes to sell live cattle to Egypt.
He likes to pretend there is no Human Rights issue here.
He was wrong about Louise O’Keefe too.
Paddy has a learning disability.
The one potential positive out of all this is that if he ever makes it back to Ireland he might realise that our western liberal, permissive society with all its freedoms isn’t as bad as its cracked up to be, and should never be taken for granted. Maybe he’ll even give up on his family’s aspirations to impose Sharia Law on the rest of us, although somehow I doubt it.
Nobody is suggesting Ibrahim be refused what he and his family are already recieving, namely assistance from the Department of Foreign Affairs, so far he has had about 40 visits in Egypt. This is a fact and contradicts what his family claims.
When the Halawa siblings travelled to Egypt in 2013 they did so not for a holiday, as they later claimed, but to protest in support of the ousted Egyptian president Morsi whom they supported as a fellow member of the Muslim Brotherhood.
They chose to ignore the travel advice of the Irish government who advised Egypt was potentially violent and unsafe at that time.
Their Muslim Brotherhood ties are well documented as all the siblings were photographed at several protests in Egypt and videoed at rally’s in which they said they were prepared to die for the Muslim Brotherhood, use violence for their cause etc.
They have repeatedly lied since the arrest of Ibrahim Halawa, the have claimed he was tortured. He was not. They claimed he was moved to a death row cell. He was not. They have insinuated that anyone, including the Irish government, who does not move heaven and earth to have him released must be a racist. They are not.
If anyone should be rushing to the aid of Ibrahim Halawa it should be the Muslim Brotherhood, yet they remain strangely silent on the issue. He and his sisters went to Egypt to the aid of their ousted president, Morsi, they knew what they were doing, they ignored all advise to stay away. He may well be in a lot of trouble right now, he may well be in a lot more in the days to come, but to protray himself as an innocent abroad is utter nonsense. To suggest that anyone who disagrees with this must be a racist is absolutely disgusting and offensive.
Dear Donal,
Do you support the Muslim brotherhood
Also wouldn’t make a difference what his name is…find it odd that peopl
*find it odd that people perceive there is racism because he’s not a stereotypical type Irish man…..There’s something ironic about that.
You say he went to eygpt for the summer with his family? You make it sound like he was going on holidays. I’d put good money on it that feels more Egyptian than he will ever feel Irish unless he’s trying to get out of jail of course. I wish there was someone that wouldn’t take a side on this and report the logical facts and remove the emotive side….You know journalists… He’s also not some average boy, his father is Sheikh Hussein Halawa, a senior Muslim cleric in Ireland. His friend Dr Ali Selim said he would take legal action against those who support charlie hebdo with the posting of cartoons… The Irish boy isn’t just a normal Irish boy named Sean to John which translates to Yahia.
I think, in the interest of balance and fairness, it has to be said that Ibrahim Halawa did not tear up his Irish passport, or if he did, as yet, nobody has provided any evidence of this.
Rusty you are totally spot on there , well said.
There was a video of him on stage tearing up what looked like a passport. That video has now been removed. It may or may not have been his passport – without the video available its hard to know for sure – but it could be what gave rise to the claims.
His family claim the authorities confiscated it when they arrested him, but their problem is that they’ve told so many lies now that nobody knows whether to believe them or not. People also want to know why so many videos were removed.
We’re all entitled to tear up, burn or drop our passports in pint glasses. Doesn’t stop us being Irish citizens.
It’s a form of freedom of speech. Do I like it? No. But I respect the right to do it.
That’s what makes this country a better country than Egypt.
It seems this is the video in question, although I can’t verify the translations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=-cn09s-Fq5s&app=desktop
Is the man who is now mayor of tripoli still Irish? Al-harati lived in Ireland for 20 years before he went to Libya to fight.I don’t appreciate Ireland being used as a staging group before the join they join some ME rebel group. Halawa kid isn’t much different.
That’s not the video RustyBalls. That’s pretty much the only one now available online (it was so widely circulated its impossible to get rid of it now) but there were several others at the time which have all now been removed.
That was in reply to Rusty’s other comment and not about his passport
Yea Hitler was democratically elected too.
In fairness the Egyptian military acted to oust the facist Morsi something the German military failed to do in the same situation 80 years ago.
In that case Brian should the Australian government and others not have gotten involved to apply pressure for the release of Al Jazeera journalist Peter Greste and his colleagues? As you say he went to a foreign country.
Mohammad Fahmy, one of Greste’s colleagues was also of dual citizenship (Canadian-Egyptian) and the Canadian government successfully lobbied his release. Was that unjustified interference with the Egyptian justice system by Canada?
This moron goes to Egypt to support death for homosexuals , death for raped women .Supports Isil and the genocide of al non believers !
Did he not denounce his Irish citizenship? And now he wants the irish government to come save him? Best to stay out of it
Brian I bet you wouldn’t say that if he was your son.He is a young man give the lad a break.
A teenager who (allegedly) denounces his Irish citizenship is still an Irish citizen…. just like a teenager who denounces his parents is still those parents’ son.
Diarmuid I reckon there are more serious ramifications to denouncing your citizenship than denouncing your parents.
*Renouncing… A little different to denouncing…
Onion, you would be wrong. I could burn my passport and the tricolour now and would still be an Irish citizen. It would be outrageous, but protected under free speech and citizenship laws. My citizenship would remain a fact in law.
No Brian he didn’t. Nor did he tear up his passport. It was taken from him when he was arrested.
What if he killed a gay man in Ireland and the Egyptian government demanded he be released because he holds an Egyptian passport and was only following Sharia Law ?
We would say no thanks… and highlight the fact that the rule of law and respect for human rights has a higher standing in Ireland than in Egypt.
Ironic that he went over supporting a way of life that criminalises free speech and freedom of expression to name a few and now relies on these same values to free him.
What was he doing there in the first place?
Causing trouble
Allah told him to go. Well f### him and Allah and all of his ilk, not even worth considering getting our government to bail him out.
If his name was Sean Murphy he probably wouldn’t have gone to a foreign country to speak at a rally in support of an extremist religious organisation that seeks to impose its views on unwilling ordinary people, using violence if necessary.
Oh, and his family would not have then had to lie about the true purpose of his visit by saying they were just innocently there on holiday and inadvertently got caught up in the trouble…
@Alan b. He was there to support ramming down the throat Sharia law for all Egyptians. Sharia Law is the law that Indonesians used to execute those persons in Indonesia yesterday.
Honestly, no I wouldn’t care more if his name was Sean Murphy.
He chose to go over there. I couldn’t less.
Article says “while there he and his sisters “became” involved in a protest”….. very cleverly worded to soften the fact that they willing chose to participate….. original story the family put out said they were just visiting a temple and took refuge there when the protest started….. makes me wonder what else is an untruth….
Sloppy journalism
Surely they could’ve organised a firing squad for him by now? Disgraceful that he’s costing the Egyptian taxpayer all this money.
He ripped up his irish passport at one of these protests also! Some irish citizen! Fcuk him!
PJOC – you reckon the drug dealiers/drug mules should have been let go?
@ Shane – provide proof…
I’m sorry, but without proof you have no right to accuse. In any man’s language that would be fair – unless of course you’re a muslim, then everyone has a right to accuse you … thats how it seems.
There are thousands more like him, perhaps tens of thousands on the way here,with the EU Resettlement plan (which Charlie Flanagan stated on the radio ” I will continue to engage with the resettlement programme” it’s not an asylum system any more (if it ever was) it’s a “resettlement programme” and with a potential 1,000,000 + heading to Europe…….
What is rather funny is the government is giving us a referendum on gay marriage and the age of candidates for presidency which which effecrs small proportion of the people meanwhile ignoring the elephant knocking at our our door.
F### who exactly? and who are his “ilk”?
Say what? You want a referendum to decide on whether muslims should be allowed live in Ireland?
@Mr Big Fella. As you may well know Sharia Law comes down much heavier on non.Muslims all across the board. As such all states under Sharia Law ought be suspended from the UN.
The ‘Indonesian’ executions show up this bias clearly in as much as the Indonesians/Muslims were dealt with much more leniently than non-Muslims.
Ind. drug group was divided into three groups.
—-’Curiously, the three groups were given separate trials.’
‘The Chinese”
_The five Chinese each received 20-year jail terms, which were affirmed at the first appeal, then raised to the death sentence at the final appeal. One of them died in detention, and the other four have had PK applications before the Supreme Court apparently since early last year, without a decision.
‘The Westerners’
The two Westerners received life sentences at their trial, which were upheld at the first appeal, and then elevated to the death sentence at the final appeal to the Supreme Court. The Dutchman, Gerardus, has died while in jail, and the Frenchman, Atlaoui, still has a PK under way.
‘The Indonesian/Muslims’
-’The two alleged masterminds, Sudrajat and Sucipto, were found guilty and sentenced to death, a penalty upheld at two levels of appeal. Both filed last year for a peninjauan kembali (PK, a trial review) which is still in the course of hearing by the original court.
Three other Indonesians (Sani, Rahardja, and Saputra) received jail sentences of 15 years, raised to 20 years on appeal. The fourth, Kusriadi, got 10 years.
-’Selection and presentation of evidence was also discriminatory.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-27/mcdonald-death-for-outsiders-but-leniency-for-locals/6423682
The ultimate sentencing seems to show a tendency for the foreigners to cop the heaviest penalties. All the foreigners ended up with the death penalty, while some of the Indonesians were shown relative leniency.
And as Diane Zhang has previously shown, in 2015 there are more foreigners slated for execution than the total number of foreigners killed in the previous 16 years….
The video was removed from you tube quick smart when he/ family realised he would need support of irish government! I saw it! He can rot over there
Islamic fundamentalists, and all who believe in and follow shariah law.
If his name was ‘Sean Murphy’, he made a public display of tearing up his Irish passport and then travelled to a country which people were warned to stay away from at the time- Well then yes, I most certainly would look the other way
His passport was confiscated.
Confiscated by the bin!?!
An undemocratic military coup has interned an Irish citizen without due process for almost two years. If you don’t care, your own Irish citizenship means little to you.
If the 17 year old broke Irish law, then prosecute him under Irish law.
He tore up his passport on stage in front of a couple of thousand people and all caught on video. So his passport wasn’t confiscated as his sisters would like you to believe.
Diarmuid. If a foreign national breaks the law here should we treat him differently to our own criminals?
This article is one of the most blatant pieces of propaganda I’ve ever read on the journal regarding this case.
Mick. We live in a democracy, with an independent judiciary and a Constitution guaranteeing certain fundamental rights, including the right to a fair trial. We subscribe to UN, EU and ECHR human rights laws. We would not detain a foreign national without trial on jumped up charges for almost two years. If we did, I would expect the State of which that individual is a citizen, to seek his/her return.
@Mick – According to the article, if one says that he tore up his passport – you are a racist.
“We would not detain a foreign national…”
He is an Egyptian citizen and committed crimes in Egypt. Dual citizenship offers no officially recognised protection under international law and Egypt is free to do what they see fit with one of their own citizens.
Diarmuid. He knowingly and actively took part in an illegal demonstration for a banned organization in an other country. He renounced the Irish part of his dual citizenship declaring himself in public to be a full Egyptian citizen. And now he is being held in remand under Egyptian law as an Egyptian citizen.
Now who are you to decide what should be the judicial process in a country on another continent where traditions and laws are completely different to ours.
He is an Irish citizen. This country has a duty to come to the aid of its citizens interned without trial by military dictatorships. If you don’t believe that, you own concept of Irish nationality and values is warped.
We shouldn’t rush to help liars.
“They’re killing me, they’re torturing me.”
Apparently, a big fat lie (with all due respect to big and fat individuals, do not deserve being related to this guy’s lies).
“We live in a democracy, with an independent judiciary and a Constitution guaranteeing certain fundamental rights, including the right to a fair trial. We subscribe to UN, EU and ECHR human rights laws.”
Yes we do Diarmuid, but this is Ireland and that is Egypt. If he stayed here and demonstrated at ‘home’ he probably wouldn’t be in the mess he’s in now.
Avina, yes he was a stupid teenager and should have stayed at home. You going to cut off Irish consular assistance to every Irish citizen locked up by dictatorships abroad just because they should have stayed at home?
Richard, where is the proof that he tore up his passport? YouTube? I don’t know if he did it or not, but unlike you, I’m a bit cynical of youtube only evidence. Maybe you should live up to your name.
This article tries to imply that we’re all racists! More bullshit journalism
What if his name was Gerry adams and the British government interned him without trial, whats your opinion on that diarmuid?
Internment without trial is a horrific violation of human and fundamental rights, Eamon.
Diarmuid. He is remanded in custody. He as not been interned without trial. No different than someone being remanded in custody here.
For two years without trial? That is clearly a breach of his fundamental rights.
Again not necessarly. As we have seen here people have been waiting years for their trial to begin. So he has been remanded in custody A) because he is a flight risk and B) the nature of the charges.
Should say a Chinese person with dual nationality who is charged and remanded here under our terrorism laws be dealt with as he would be under Chinese law? Because that is the heart of your argument.
We look after our own. Equally. Full stop. Who are you to determine what citizens deserve consular assistance and what citizens do not?
We have higher human rights standards than China or Russia or Egypt or Saudi Arabia. We don’t look to them for guidance in human rights.
Why do you defend an undemocratic military dictatorship abusing the human rights of one of your fellow citizens?
Diarmuid. He is not being denied consular assistance but there is a limit to that assistance.
But no Embassy or Government can legally interfere with the judicial process of another country. As we saw yesterday Australia was unable to stop the executions of two of its citizens. So what makes you think that the Irish Government can interfere in the Egyptian Judicial process.
Doesn’t mean we can’t try. The military and judiciary are the same in Egypt. There is clearly scope for diplomacy. Other states have secured the release of their citizens, including Western journalists.
@ diarmuid i don’t agree with a lot of what you say but on this i am with you he is an irish citizen or more importantly he is a seventeen year old boy who maybe did back the wrong horse and we all had a bit of fire in our blood at that age, does he deserve to die no. he needs assistance i would hate it if my fellow countrymen let my child down. he is a silly teenager who needs help and guidance not the death penalty for doing something silly maybe you don’t agree with him but he should get all the rights that sean murphy would get as an irish citizen, not the death penalty for being a silly teenager.
The military acted to remove Morsi and the terrorist supporting Muslim Brotherhood at the behest of the Egyptian people who were fed up with the MB trying to circumvent their democracy. That el-Sisi gained 10 million votes more than Morsi had received in 2012 gives the lie to claims that it was an unwanted military coup. IH has dual citizenship so in Egypt he’s an Egyptian citizen and should be treated as such, the Government should stop interfering on his behalf unless he’s given the death penalty in which case they should try to get it commuted on humanitarian grounds, but only then. He made his choice when he went there to support MB.
The initial arrest took place after a bloody military coup, before any elections (which MB was banned from incidentally).
I posted this elsewhere Diarmuid, but it would serve you well to read it. It lists just some of the human rights abuses carried out by the MB under Morsi during their short time in power. This is what the ordinary people of Egypt rose up against, and this is what the Halawas went to Egypt to try and defend:
Thanks Avina. Well aware that the MB abused the democratic mandate they were given, sometimes to a horrific degree. Not defending them. Certainly not defending the beliefs of the Halawas. There’s a fundamental principle here though, this country should seek to protect its citizens abroad, no matter how warped their opinions may be.
But Diarmuid, you keep on indignantly referring to a ‘military coup’ as if you think the MB should have been at liberty to continue on with their human rights abuses and destruction of democracy and freedom for the remainder of their term!
@ Mick Jordan – if he did tear up his passport – where is the evidence? And please do not say something like all the videos have been taken down. Either provide the proof if it exists or don’t accuse him of tearing up the passport.
Avina, just because the MB committed abuses, does not mean that a military coup, committing its own abuses, is legitimate. It’s not good vs evil! Poor Egypt is a mess.
For the record Diarmuid, I don’t think anyone is defending the current regime (which in my opinion is almost as bad as Morsi’s) however its undeniable that the military takeover had the support of the majority of ordinary Egyptians who could see the way things were heading under the MB.
So people are happy enough to throw the accusations, but not happy to provide the proof. Either put up or shut up!
He knew what he was getting into and knew the consequences so now is the time for him to man up.
He hasn’t been tried. Hasn’t been found guilty of anything.
Diarmaid, he went “on holidays” to a country that was in the middle of a major political upheaval even though there was an advisory not to go. He stood in front of a crowd and told them how he had attended a protest and got shot. He went to another protest and got arrested after getting shot again. He can not claim ignorance of Egypts laws and ways of dealing with dissent seeing as most people in Ireland could tell you that they don’t get treated with kid gloves. Now he has to deal with the consequences of his actions.
If a pale haired Irish man named Sean held joint Egyptian citizenship, ripped up his Irish passport to denounce his Irish citizenship and travelled to Egypt to take part in protests which wanted to impose strict sharia law (something which has no place in any civilized country…. Public stonings, forcing women to marry their rapists or be put in jail or worse killed for honour – no thank you)….. Then yes Journal.ie, he could be the most typical Irish man or woman around and I would be happy to let him rot if he bahaved the way Ibrahim halawa did.
His passport was confiscated
Yip the Islamic tooth faery got it!
There’s more to the story than you have reported!! They don’t lock up innocent Irish kids for no reason! They lock up radicalised kids preaching and rioting attempting to over throw the government!
You understand the rationale of an unelected murderous military coup? Fair play. They locked up Al Jazeera western journalists for no reason.
The family came to Ireland for a better life. Why then go back to Eygypt to protest?
Enough with this crap already, he chose his path, burned his bridges so no sympathy.
What a very unbalanced and one sided article. Indeed it sets a dangerous precedent if Irish society is going to support extremist islam,accept sharia law supporters and downplay the danger from within among radicalised Islamist isis supporters then we are going down a very dangerous path.
We’re are already going down a dangerous path by accepting that what we have is democracy.
Luvvie propaganda Alert !!
how can we look the other way?….simple this is a shiria hugging fanatic. His ways and philosophy are a threat to western democratic ways. Live by Shiria, die by Shiria. Clonseagh must have you guys on a retainer.
Per usual Donal O’Keeffe isn’t going to delve into what the Halawa was doing there at the time, so instead resorts too “you’re all WAAAYCISTS for not caring enough!”
The author is deluded and confused and certainly wrong on the facts.The democratically elected government Muslim Brotherhood tried to bring in Sharia law which encroaches human rights and that was not the mandate they got elected on.
The Muslim brotherhood supporters incited riots which lead to people being injured and killed.
The Top European based operative of the Muslim brotherhood is Hussein Halawa.
https://wikileaks.org/cable/2006/07/06DUBLIN798.html
The media have only asked soft questions to this family prime example is Ryan Tubridy interview on the late late show.
Aren’t journalists supposed to go after the facts and what is true?Journalist integrity is missing in far too many.
Now the Halawa sisters are blaming the Irish government! How dare they! They even have segregated protests outside the Egyptian embassy shows the ideology behind them.
The Halawa clan clearly didn’t go on a family holiday it was a coordinated protest in support of the Muslim brotherhood in which they stated they’d be ready fir bloodshed.
So why did Ibrahim Halawa not follow the dept of foreign affairs advice about travelling to the region? Being a good Irish citzen.
Why isn’t Hussein Halawa speaking out or travelling to Egypt to help his boy?
Most people see through the B.S the Halawa clan are claiming.
To answer your question, and surely you must already know the answer, the media cannot ask the family any hard questions for fear of being branded as racists or allegations of Islamaphobia , but Irish people are not stupid they know what really happened here and they can see through the spin.
Why aren’t his parents campaigning for his release?
Did he or did he not renounce publicly his Irish Citizenship and destroy his Irish Passport as an act of defiance?
And if he did renounce his citizenship then he is no longer an Irish citizen and is of no concern to the Irish Government or the Irish People.
No he did not tear up his parr port or renounce his Irish citizenship. His passport was taken from him by the Egyptian authorities after he was shot by then and arrested.
He was born in Dublin, lived here all his life. He is Irish. Sorry if that doesn’t suit the sensibilities of some, bet there it is.
Mick, even if he did do those things, he remains an Irish citizen under Irish law. Find me a piece of law which says burning a passport nullifies your citizenship. There are legal procedures to follow to renounce citizenship.
Colm. Says who? His sisters?
Under Irish Law you keep saying,l Diarmuid. Like a broken record you are. He is in EGYPT. Irish Law means sweet f all there.
I don’t care what his nationality is, or how he acquired it. He went to a foreign country looking for trouble and, hey surprise, he found it.
What’s your opinion on the Muslim Brotherhood and Sharia Law Colm?
Al, so you want to discard Irish citizens who leave these shores and go to bad places? This country has higher standards than that. We protect our citizens suffering human rights abuses, regardless of their stupid reasons for leaving these shores.
Diarmuid. He rejected us before his arrest not the other way around. He declared himself an Egyptian citizen. He did not travel alone to Egypt on some teenage whim. He went with older members of his family who also took part in illegal demonstrations with the full support of his parents. But when the shit hit the fan then all of a sudden he declares he is Irish again.
If I went to Russia and stood in Red Square with Ukrainian Flag and a banner saying that Putin was a War Criminal and Russia out of Crimea would I expect to be arrested. Damn sure I would. Would I expect to be dealt with under Russian law. Again yes. What would I expect the Irish Government to do. Visit me in prison and thats about all.
Mick, he is still an Irish citizen, under Irish law.
Nobody here has proven otherwise, despite his stupidity, or warped logic, or outrageous behaviour, or support for a brutal organisation.
Yes, visit me in prison and lobby for my release.
Lobby for his release on what grounds? He commited a criminal act in a foreign jurisdiction. And is remanded in custody under their national laws.
Why was he there? I don’t go on holidays & end up leading a political rally. Citizen or not, He’s not the innocent you expect us all to believe.
“Alleged” criminal act Mick, no conviction yet. Detained without trial on jumped up charges by an undemocratic military dictatorship, which also runs the judiciary. His human rights are being abused according to a multitude of human rights bodies. Other countries were successful in securing the release of their citizens, including Western journalists. Plenty to work on at a diplomatic level. No skin off your back.
Diarmuid. He did take part in not one but two Illegal demonstrations. And that is by both his own admission and video evidence. So there is No Alleged about it. By taking an active part in those demonstrations he did commit an offence.
Remanded in Custody not detained without trial. As he was brought before a judge and remanded.
Were those Western Journalists charged with the same charges he was?
Why do you insist on defending and legitimising the courts, laws and procedures of a military dictatorship?!
Imprisonment without trial for two years is a breach of fundamental human rights. By any decent standards. By the standards of global human rights advocates. No matter what other label you choose to use.
Btw when this Irish citizen returns to Ireland he will have full access to our defamation laws. People should be careful when they call him a criminal and terrorist.
Diarmuid. Do you think the courts were any more free under the Muslim Brotherhood Government? You deal with what you are presented with. And the current Egyptian government is internationally recognized as the legitimate Government.
MB were tyrants. Egypt is a mess. Ireland should exert our values and protect our citizens regardless of whatever despot is in power.
Irish standards? You mean people walking scot free with 100 suspended convictions? And not just for petty crimes, violent assaults and all.
Blah. You can stick those ‘standards’ up your rectum.
You keep saying military dictatorship despite el-Sisi getting almost 24 million votes in a Presidential election which was monitored by numerous International observors. The military are necessary to ensure the terrorist supporting MB do not return and circumvent democracy again.
Al, maybe you should go to Egypt and test your theory.
Richard, it was a murderous undemocratic military coup at the time of the arrest. Has that changed since? The previously democratically elected MB were banned from elections. Not very democratic to ban the incumbent party.
@ Colm “Sorry if that doesn’t suit the sensibilities of some” – substitute sensilbilities with agenda and you have it bang on!
Tin foil hat alert for Colm.
If you have proof that he tore up his passport, then provide the proof. The onus is on the accuser to provide the evidence. Innocent until proven guilty.
This article is some joke. It blatantly tries to call Irish people racist and arrogant for not helping “one of our citizens” because he is not white and ginger. I felt like I was being insulted with every line I read. I am NOT racist and because this guy is brown with Egyptian parents or whatever is not the reason I am not out protesting the Egyptian embassy. Everyone knows why this guy and his family went to Egypt. If he has committed a crime in another country then he must pay for that (just like every other person in the world). This journalist should be sacked on the spot.
By “pay for that”, you mean have his fundamental and human rights abused by a foreign state?
Do you apply the same logic for other Irish citizens abused abroad?
Now D you accept he supports a brutal organisation , why would you want him back here ? ,
@CW I agree, yesterday we saw Barry Lyttle home from Australia when he was very nearly charged with the murder of his brother Patrick. This was an Irishman who had committed a crime while abroad and, regardless of how we may have felt about what he did, he would have faced the Australian justice system.
The same thing applies here with Ibrahim Halawa, he knew what he did, he attempted to interfere in another countries judicial system and was prepared to use violence to do that. It was only when the situation turned that he claimed to be a poor innocent Irish student abroad and the lies began. We cannot interfere, if the tables were turned we would tell an Egyptian the same thing.
Mike, just because I disagree with his political opinions doesn’t mean this State should discard him. Irish citizens have different political opinions. The State has a duty to provide consular assistance to, and lobby on behalf of, its citizens being abused abroad.
“The State has a duty to provide consular assistance to, and lobby on behalf of, its citizens being abused abroad.”
They are doing that and have been doing that since the start. It’s the Halawa family which began the rubbish claims that the Irish state is doing nothing.
Funnily enough, they’re also the ones who made up the rubbish claim that Ibrahim is being tortured and they are the ones who lied about why he was even there in Egypt with his sisters in the first place.
Diarmuid , that’s the thing, he is getting all the help they can give him , he’s had 40 visits so far , I don’t know why you keep saying that he isn’t .
Suzie, looks like the DFA is doing a good job. I’ve never said otherwise. Just respond to some people here who claim he’s not Irish and should be discarded by the State regardless.
YES !!! He’s no more Irish than the “Ice cream man”.
“Would we care more if his name was, say, Sean Murphy”………… nope!
Articles related to Ibrahaim have had the comments shut down on a number of occasions because of the levels of vitriol. So I have to wonder if this piece is well intentioned or a cynical attempt to get the Journal’s commenters up and running with some controversy
Cynical attempt.
Yes, Donal hes not ethnically Irish, hes not one of us.
Theres the small matter that he was caught protesting in support of the brutal muslim brotherhood also additionally demonstrating he has nothing in common with the Paddys and Conors or Ireland.
This must be overlooked of course because the point here isnt even Halawa or his well being but acting holy and righteously like the good liberal humanist we are.
Article title should be: Thats right Paddy, look in the mirror you damned dirty racist!
I’d say he’s better at Irish and Gaelic Football then you xenotroll…
I lose no sleep worrying about this so called Irish Citizen, he is in jail for interfering in the politics of another country and he tore up his Irish Passport so fúkk him.
Send him parcels of bacon and cabbage
Irish me hole! Leave him to it, he went there looking for trouble, took everything Ireland offered then turned around and threw it back in our faces.
Donal you are very welcome to go to egypt and petition the government there to release this man , in fact i will pay your air fare.
Is he one of the Murphys from Castlebar …the father was a great man for a sing song
Let’s please live in the real world. He uses Ireland as a tool. We should not waste time or resourses on this guy.
I more worried about him and his family living here.yhey support sharia law.but yet live in a free democracy!
I’d rather his and his family kind didn’t live here.
I don’t want my family growing up in fear of radicalised and backwards thinking people.people like the them are dangerous
He made his bed and knew what he was doing, so let him lie in it. Easy to run for cover under human rights umbrella. What he supports don’t have much time for human rights
I wonder how many supports he would receive if he was travelling to Syria to join IS? The Muslim brotherhood and IS are reported to be linked,
This O Keefe muppet is some fool; if you believe these people’s story you’d need your head examined. For all his faults, Flanagan was dead right to stay far, far away from this. That fella travelled to a warzone when the Dept of Foreign Affairs warned against going there and ripped up his passport. He made his bed, let him lie in it.
I haven’t forgotten this muppet’s article about how he’s going to pay the water charges because “it’s the right thing to do”. Stupid is as stupid does, I guess.
Not a fair comparison. What if Seán Murphy has burned his Irish Passport to show his love of Ireland?
Ibrahim Halawa by burning his declared himself not to be Irish. He cannot have it both ways. Did he also burn his Egyptian Passport. While no one approves of his being jailed for so long he knew full well the consequences of his actions. I’m sure Irish people would take a dim view of anyone who would burn their Irish Passport and then come whining for help from Ireland when it suited them.
He burned his Irish passport now? First he tore it up. Did he do both? Ridiculous!!!
Chinese whispers Mike. They’ll say whatever suits their agenda.
Why not have a poll on this guys future. Results should be interesting.
He tore up his irish passport and goes on his little crusade and lands himself in the poop and now he wants our help, sorry buddy you made your bed lay in it,
Maybe if religion was taught properly in schools over the years then maybe people would have realised what they were getting into (or out off) rather than the “romantic image” that is preached by fundamentals.
A lot of people are gonna come out here and attack this guy but as far as I know all the kid has done is go to a demonstration.
Now he’s been interred without trial for so long. There are no tiers to Irish citizenship, he should be tried soon or sent back here
Are gonna wha?
If that’s all you know diarmuid I suggest you read a little more into exactly what he was doing there.
Author says PRO-Democracy protest?, has the author done any research on the Muslim Brotherhood the crowd Halawa went to Egypt to support?.
Morsi in his short time in power was shown to be nothing but a front for the hard line Muslim Brotherhood, Democracy can be a useful tool to gain power, plenty of false promises, but once in power the Muslim Brotherhoods real intentions was to introduce an Islamic Caliphate to Egypt.
In this case I have zero sympathy for Halawa, it was a case of you made your bed now lie in it, the Muslim Brotherhood certainly didn’t treat their political opponents with respect, as for the Coptic Christians?, it was open season during Morsi’s short tenure.
David Vance (and here) smelled a rat, and asked for more information. I filled him in on the Muslim Brotherhood connection, and he responded, 22 Aug 2013: “Now, having established that the Halawas are ardent supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, we now need to ask WHY the Irish media universally decided to not ask the simple question what they were doing in Cairo? We know the Irish media was quick to suggest that lack of Irish concern shown for the Halawas may be Irish racism, but yet the same journalists so quick to cast such a slur on their fellow Irish men and women were unable to deploy their intelligence and ask WHY was this Irish family in Cairo in the first place. It’s quite an indictment on the entire Irish MSM that they have wilfully closed their eyes to an important aspect of this story in an attempt to mislead the Irish public.”
The further in the past the incident them the more they can rewrite the history of it?
Ibrahim Halawa was born in Ireland and grew up here so his accepted citizenship surely is Irish. The fact he ‘played Gaelic football’ hardly extends some sort of super citizenship to him. I and many of my friends and acquaintances never played Gaelic games. Does that make us any less Irish??
If his passport was stolen or lost then his family can apply for a replacement and present it to the Egyptian authorities and make the case for his release or a swift court process.
There appears to be a lot of mixed opinions as to what he and his siblings were actually doing whilst on the extended holiday. Surely his father or mother should make a statement through our many media outlets and clarify the details so as to assuage the doubts that many of us have as to the veracity of what family members have been saying.
Anybody supporting or even accepting Sharia law being allowed into this country should immediately be outed.
Have you bothered to read anything about this case ?
He’s also an Egyptian citizen.
He committed a crime in Egypt.
This has nothing to do with Ireland.
Sorry, posted that in wrong response box.
You need to look up the fundamentalist beliefs of Wahhabism if you want to understand more fully what happened and is going on here. Irish people have a very superfical knowledge of the issues. The advocates of this belief system not not talk publicly in our society because what they believe in would be anathema to Irish people.
They don’t talk pubically now but in a few years when they have strength in numbers you will see trojan horse Muslim schools and Lutfur Rahman type mayors and scandals like Rotherham where polite society never ever challenge Muslims on any issue in case the poor lambs get offended and anyone who dares ask questions will be shouted down as a big racist even though Iaslam is not a race. Welcome to modern day Europe.
Because the government that we have had no backbone, their too afraid of upsetting other states, it’s is absolutely scandalous that this has gone on for so long!
In this case I think the government have got it absolutely spot on
Their is not the same as they are or they’re or there.
A normal Irish 17 year old isn’t going to go to a foreign country and partake in a protest now are they. I don’t even think a 17 year old Irish person would even attend a protest in Dublin. He deserves everything he gets.
Irish or not Irish like being a citizen if you go over to these places you have to expect things like this happening I have no sympathy for this person that’s just the stupid laws in some of these countries
Its hilarious that a lot of the people supporting this guy have “yes 2015″ in their avatars, if the likes of this guy and his family had their sharia law way, gay people would be stoned to death or subjected to some other horrible punishment to appease allah.
Actually if some knob from Firhouse got himself lobbed in an Arab jail because he was out cheering for Sharia I suspect 99% of Ireland would think it fine to leave him there.
In reality this fellow has had more attention precisely because he’s a “visibly minority” and the usual suspects want to publicly demonstrate their multicultural credentials by supporting him.
What about the thousands held in GITMO? Just cause they aren’t irish you don’t care?
I Really hope this man gets justice, but can the journal also look at cases closer to home, look at the martin corey case held for years with no trial and other on going cases, no free speech , are we afraid to speak out because they are Republicans or that the British are still wronging our people
there should never be anything like this in modern society. interment is still alive and kicking i would like to know the secret evidence they have that cant be disclosed, on them grounds anyone can be imprisoned. also there has to be a case to answer as they have said the have unspecified allegations so this needs to be cleared up in a court of law i am afraid con with the sentiments on this page they would hang martin corey in a heart beat.
he has been interned on unspecified allegations witch cannot be talked about as they are secret what a load of shite at this rate anyone can be imprisoned disgraceful breech of human rights you don;t have to look to the middle east for that. we had our own form of sharia law not so long ago in ireland look at the magdaline laundries and the proof of their sins in tume 800 babies disgarded like dirt, the last laundy closed in 2003, we don’t need to look at anyone else for the wrong doing of our people we did a good job of that ourselves.
sorry kid the Irish passport is only being used as a last resort for freedom .you lived your life as an egyptian.
Ripped up his passport. Irish when it suits him it seems. Pathetic.
No Sympathy
The comments here are sickening. This is akin to the son of Irish emigrants coming home to Ireland, joining in a water or anti austerity protest and then being shot, imprisoned without trial, tortured and detained illegally for 2 years. This is human rights abuse, something all of you who have made comments about ‘manning up’ and ‘causing trouble’ have the luxury of being able to ignore.
Do you wish to live or force others to live under ‘Sharia’ law?
I’m gonna be sorry I asked this but what do you mean by that?
Are you seriously trying to compare leading demonstrations in support of Sharia Law with water protests Nicola??
Nicola, unless something happened over night I’m pretty sure that there are not armed soldiers on the streets of Ireland. Ireland does not have a travel advisory alert telling people not to come here, especially “on holidays”. The police are not shooting at water protesters and the anti austerity protesters are not rioting on the streets trying to over throw the Government by force if necessary.
If you go to a country like Egypt which doesn’t have the best human rights record in the first place and you get into trouble because you placed yourself in harms way then you have to accept that it is your own fault for being there in the first place. No one forced him to go, no one forced him to protest, no one told him to get shot twice. He played with fire and now he is getting burned.
Yes Avina I am. Because irregardless of whether you believe in a cause/rationale/ideology (and I am very opposed to Sharia Law) you have the right to protest and to have your voice heard. So if you are afforded free speech and the right to protest (as everyone should be) people don’t get to decide who does and doesn’t have it. My problem with this is that a young irish citizen is being held without trial and he is also being tortured and mistreated. That is absolute abuse of due process. The type of due process that is taken for granted in more stable and liberal countries. If you think that this isn’t our problem you’re wrong. Human rights abuses which include the abuse of people under sharia law AND under regimes that will imprison you without trial are all of our problems. I don’t know about you, but being shot, tortured and imprisoned for 2 years would seem punishment enough now for attending a political rally in a fractious country. Or maybe you think he should rot forever.
Oh right ok brian. And how long should he burn for? Indefinitely?? How do you decide?? Should he ever be let out??
The family has claimed he was tortured, afaik the Dept of Foreign Affairs have been visiting him regularly and have not confirmed this. As it happens I do think he’s unlikely to get a fair trial, particularly if it becomes a ‘mass trial’ like previous ones, and it would be an absolute travesty of justice if he receives the death penalty.
That said, you should seriously research the actions of the MB in Egypt since Morsi took power. If you were more aware of the facts you wouldn’t equate him going there to speak in support of them with going on water protest at home – to even try and compare the two is laughable.
No Avina – what is laughable is your assumption that I don’t know what I’m talking about or don’t know about the MB. Just because I have a different view point to you does not mean I am not familiar with the facts. You are confusing an abuse of human rights of an Irish Citizen, a fellow countryman, with – actually I don’t know what. You’re making huge leaps in your argument. It’s morally simple – we are either all human beings/citizens of the world entitled to due process or we are not. Nobody gets to grade it or attach conditions to it. You don’t get to say ‘well the majority of us don’t believe in your ideology so therefore we don’t care about you’. How does that make your stance any different to the ‘eye for an eye, hand for a hand’ stance that sharia law uses as it’s basis? Cos that’s what you’re saying. It’s ridiculous. I don’t have the same opinion as him. I am strongly opposed to Sharia Law and find ALL religions equally offensive to be honest. But every citizens deserves due process and basic human rights.
@Nicola Since this article is hypothetical, let’s pretend it’s Germany 1935 and ‘Sean’ has made his way to stand before a pro Nazi party rally in Germany, denounces Ireland and announces his support for Hitler and all his beliefs and ideas. ‘Sean’ gets arrested and imprisoned for 2 years as a threat to the state.
Morally it may be wrong to imprison him, but should ‘Sean’ be free to help Hitler? Help the Nazis? Help kill 55 million people over 10 years including 6 million exterminated Jews and countless Irish sailors and citizens? The answer is simple: NO.
There’s good people in this world, and there’s bad people in this world who mean us ALL harm, who will use our liberal views, and our good morals to achieve their destructive goals against us.
‘Sean’ chose to be a bad guy.
I’m afraid if you can’t see the difference between speaking on stage in support of Sharia Law and going on a march against water charges then I have to say you’re a bit blinded to put it mildly, although as I’ve said here and elsewhere I’m dubious that he’s going to get a fair trial there, which everyone deserves.
Gowdin’s Law Northern Craic. I was wondering when that would come into it.
Nicola, it is not for me to decide his fate, that is for the Egyptian legal system. If I went to Egypt and broke their laws I would be well aware that I would be in the world of crap. So I don’t go to Egypt and if I did I would certainly keep my nose clean and not attend any political protests. Likewise if I were to book a holiday this year it won’t be to Syria, Libya, Ukraine or Iraq seeing as the DFA would advise against going there on holidays. If I did go there and got into trouble how much sympathy do you think or would you expect me to get?
“I’m gonna be sorry I asked this but what do you mean by that?” :- Nicola
Sorry about the long time in replying.
Their first story….
The sisters and Ibrahim travel to Egypt to visit relatives.
While out doing touristy things like browsing the markets and sightseeing, they accidentally get caught up in a surge of people avoiding the crack-down on a protest. Fearing for their lives, they take refuge in the nearest mosque and end up getting arrested along with actual protesters who also took refuge in the mosque.
The bit they left out…..
Ibrahim and his sisters were on stage at the protest speaking to the crowds, voicing their support for the Muslim Brotherhood and the supporting the introduction of Sharia Law. Ibrahim claiming on stage that he earlier had spent time in street battles with the police and had himself been injured.
Now, I don’t know about you but if I was sightseeing…..I think I would remember taking a wrong turn and accidentally ending up on a stage in front of thousands of people, let alone speaking to them….although accident would be the wrong word as I’m sure those acting as security would not let just anyone up on that stage without knowing who and why they were.
But what has all that got to do with the question you asked me? You asked me ‘do you wish to live or force others to live under sharia law?’. Why are you asking me that? Clearly I don’t wish that and wonder why you are asking me that question? I don’t think anyone should be forced to do anything. I particularly abhor religion (all religions). But what people are saying here is that he is bad cos he supports sharia law, which is oppressive. But holding someone, without a trial, is oppressive. I’m not commenting on his guilt or innocence. I am commenting on his right to protest and if he has been violent or broken the law, his right to a trial. If we start deciding as a society that some people are entitled to that whilst others aren’t because their ideology is abhorrent to us, then it’s an unequal society. I can’t stand those westboro baptist church morons either. But I respect their right to free speech, their right to demonstrate, and if they broke the law I would want them dealt with. So charge him and sentence him. But this torture and detaining him without a trial is wrong. And anyone saying ‘well he knew where he was going and what might happen to him’ so what??? Does that make it any more unfair??
Ibrahim is an Irish citizen and should be treated like everyone else I bet if it was a TDs or Senators son the Irish government would work 24/7 to free him.
He denounced his Irish citizenship.
He denounced his citizenship when he tore up his passport. Leave him where he is and let his chosen country sort him out
So what I denounced the Catholic church,and wasn’t at mass for 20 years but I’m still classed as a Catholic.
And do you see that as being the same thing Frances?
Ridiculous to even compare the two things Frances
lol senator’s son….this ain’t no Creedence song.
Ridiculous to you because it don’t suit your argument..For God’s sake Ibraham is a young man who made mistakes like us all and the Irish government should help him before it turns into another scandal.
@al and @onion how is that ridiculous? Have you not done anything stupid at 19? Cos I have a 19 yr old and the things he says and the opinions he has – let’s just say when he has spent more time in the real world he will be embarrassed by some of the silly ideas. Even IF this guy tore up his passport he is an Irish citizen. Do you think if he failed to pay his taxes revenue would go on YouTube and say ‘ah here lads – sure he tore up his passport. He doesn’t owe us a cent’ (trivial example but you get what I’m saying) the point is nothing to do with his ideas or beliefs. He is an Irish man. Being detained, without trial, by a foreign, merciless regime. He hasn’t been tried and convicted of any crime. If he had a crime to answer to I am sure they would have done that.
It doesn’t suit any argument frances
In the eyes of the world 19 years makes you an adult and old enough to make your own choices in the world.
Radicalised Muslims have no place in any civilized society, Halawa fits that bracket.
The only reason Halawa wants to come back to Ireland is because he’s now imprisoned.
What box do you tick for religion on the census form!
He also holds Egyptian citizenship, as a result he isn’t actually considered an Irish Citizen while there I am afraid
Well he might not be so inclined to support the people he originally went to support, now that the shoe is on the other foot. Where is his Father in all of this?? He’s not usually so reticent
Ibrahim Halawa is a citizen of the Irish state and deserves the protection of the state as accorded to any other citizen. But the question of whether he is Irish or not is more complex.
He is not Irish in the way we understand what Irish is, emotionally. Irish is more than a nationality. It is in the same way that we don’t regard Cliff Richards. Joanna Lumley or Spike Milligan as Indian.
….sharia twain?
Good to see racism is alive and well in Ireland, judging by some of the comments. must feel so proud of yourselves. what happened to innocent before been proven guilty or is that just a white persons law.
The youtube videos speak for themselves.
He is innocent until proven guilty and that’s why he is being held on remand awaiting trial.
He’s not been held in “remand” he’s been help in a high security prison. and after 600 days it’s a bit of a joke to say it’s justice.
Why has my comment about lies from the family been removed? It has been well documented that the family have propagated lies about why they were in Egypt in the first place.
Probably because the Journal seems to have made a hobby out of posting articles about an Egyptian arrested in Egypt for crimes committed in Egypt.
Well, he’s not in a place where white persons law matters very much, is he?
Sure our government are European and serve European masters. They have abandoned the Irish people since their term started. Hence AGAIN only one term for FG/LAB. They care for little but themselves. Election around the corner will see the electorate abandon FG/LAB..
A teenager is being held in Jail and being tortured, this is wrong regardless of race color or creed.
How can we look the other way? Because he’s not white or a catholic.
He was in a mosque where rebels were using weapons on the army, I don’t think the Egyptians arrested him because he had an Irish passport, do you?
Donal,
I have to hand it to you, I reckon you will get article of the week for the number of hits and comments on the article. It is a pity though it is so biased.
I would love to know how you managed to get the journo to allow you free reign with the article on the boy that you and I have debated about on twitter.
You resorted to being patronising and using the ‘R’ word when I challenged your views recently which disappointed me because I had respect for your views (up to that point).
Remember criticism is not racism.
So in the interests of fairness I would welcome the journo to invite Mark Humphrys to write an article outlining the *FACTS* about this guy and his family.
That I know they are hogtied to the liberal agenda view and only publish opinion pieces with that view, means the journo are unlikely to publish Marks *FACTS* on here any time soon.
So for the hundreds of commenters above who don’t know the *FACTS* of this case please visit :
(I hope I remembered the link correctly)
Folks we need to accept reality. As of April 11th he no longer has any home.
On April 11 an American citizen called Mohamed Sultan aged 27, was sentenced to life imprisonment in Egypt for taking part in the pro Morsi protests.
Soltan was shot during the violent break-up of the protest, and was taken into custody along with his father, who was an active political opposition figure within the Muslim Brotherhood.
That can only be described as devastating news for the Halawa camp!
I meant to say ‘no longer has any hope’. Not home.
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Their country their rules/laws. If you travel to any country it’s that countrys laws which decides whether you’ve been a good boy or a bad boy. It may not be pretty or right but it’s how it is.
Donal o keeffe is a muppet
When has an armoured siege in a Mosque ever been a protest? Please tell me that?
An Irish fellow citizen is being held in extremely not nice conditions without trial and he is so young. Is our democratically elected government doing as little as possible because f his religion and ethnicity? Regretfully they seem to be. And many of the rest of us fair minded people who have had our own share of oppression aren’t particularly interested either. Sad.
Very sad Desmond. Unfortunately the upsurge of the repulsive actions of ISIS et al seem to be clouding our thinking here.
He was protesting in favour of an organisation which is banned in a number of countries for supporting terrorism financially and politically. The same organisation which began to implement Sharia law in Egypt, a move which was incredibly unpopular and prompted the military to respond.
He is there because of his decisions and knew what the consequences would be.
Yes… Did I get the answer right?
I think some of the blatant racism on display here in the comments is disgraceful. He was attending a PRO-democracy rally in the country of his family’s heritage. With the mass emigration Ireland has experienced over the last 7 years or so there will be lots of children born to Irish parents overseas who will have British, Australian, NZ, Canadian etc citizenship. Hypothetically speaking, in years to come if Irelands people were been oppressed by an elected dictator and some of Irelands diaspora returned to protest, would the bigots on here be so quick to denounce them??
Well said, but let’s not let facts and rationality get in the way of a good witch hunt.
The MB/sharia and democracy are words that don’t belong in the same sentence. Morsi proved this when he got a taste of power.
Halawa went to Egypt to support the elected dictator.
I see that now but in any case it’s wrong to hold someone for nearly two years without trail just because they are supporters of the previous regime.
Pro democracy? The Muslim brotherhood are you serious? You do realise they wanted to enact Sharia law in Egypt. You do realise Sharia law encroaches the human rights of women in particularly.
If you must comment get the facts right pal.
Well “pal”, yes I am fully aware of everything you mentioned and at no point did I ever say about being a supporter of his regime but the FACTS ARE: Morsi was in fact Egypts first democratically elected President so it would be correct to say that his supporters are pro-democracy regardless of whether or not his policies are are deemed ethical.
As I said above Dan, democracy is about more than just being elected, unless you think that 51 foxes voting to eat 49 chickens is democratic. The MB were democratically elected, but have proven since then that they’re far from democratic.
They got democratically elected and tried to turn a democracy into a theocracy now jog along “pal”.
Anyway, you’re both moving off topic… Bottom line is that I think any Irish national regardless of their ethnicity should have full consular assistance when being held without trail for taking part in a legal rally as demonstrated by the the Canadian and Australian governments. Whether people like it or not, the reality is we’re a multi-cultural society and citizens can’t be discriminated against because of their backgrounds. End of.
I think no one cares because he tore up his Irish passport
Once again the commenters on the Journal prove themselves incapable of empathy, reason or the ability to see beyond that which cosies nicely with their own confirmation bias.
The bottom line is he’s a wounded Irish teenager in a foreign jail.
All you racists can check his passport when he’s back.
The racism card is getting a bit trite at this stage.
If he is Irish as you say and I have no quarrel with then how can Irish commentators be racist?
Hey Brian, the Irish are a race now? When did that happen?
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Em sorry but at least a hundred people I know have taken part in numerous campaigns to highlight this and to demand his freedom, myself included. I don’t see why this article is playing the racist card. If he was French or Russian or Australian or Cambodian I’d still campaign and I know others would too. Regardless of whether he is an Irish citizen or not, he’s a person and anyone who actually gives a shit about human rights will look past his ethnicity, no matter what it is
Human rights ok but what happens to human rights under Sharia law. Will you protest against them? The women got segregated outside of the Egyptian embassy by the Pro Halawa crowd.
How many right would women loss under Sharia law yet a few misguided girls defend them.
Yet again islamphobic biggots come out and cheer on a military dictatorship’s show trials. Shame on ye
Islamaphobia the term already being introduced into our culture as if it were an accusation of race hatred or bigotry when it’s an objection to the preachings of a very extreme an absolute religion.
Sorry Allen but Islamic apologists like yourself are the real problem.Do you realise what rights the women in your life would lose under Sharia law? Would you be happy if a sister or daughter got the Islamic treatment? Would you be no it’s ok it’s cultural? The Muslim brotherhood tried turn a democracy into a theocracy and the rest of Egypt refused this! The Halawa clan sided with the Zealots of the would be theocracy.
@Atticus Plenty of problems with the Muslim brotherhood, not defending them. Very interesting that you prefer a brutal military regime that sentences people to death by the 100s in show trials.
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