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A YES EQUALITY campaigner was repeatedly asked on radio today, “what two men do when they’re engaged in a sexual act?”
Declan Meehan of Yes Equality Donegal was debating the same-sex marriage referendum with Isaac Burke of Mandate for Marriage on Ocean FM when Burke kept asking him about sexual acts between gay people.
Burke said the referendum debate has been full of “buzzwords” such as “love, commitment and equality” but argued that there is a sexual aspect that is being ignored:
The common denominator for the LGBT community is their sexual activity and we have to get back to the facts of that being true. Declan is talking there about love and commitment and equality and all these lovely buzz words. There’s no talk about the sexual aspect of this and, I’m sorry to be insulting, but it is there and when you enter into a marriage contract the sexual aspect is an intrinsic aspect of that.
“The fact remains that the sexual conduct between two men and two women ought not to be given the same legal status as that between a man and a woman,” he added.
OceanFM / SoundCloud
(Click here for an external link to the debate)
Meehan questioned Burke’s focus on sexual acts, arguing that his focus on this and not the constitutional question of marriage was an attempt to debase the argument:
When we enter into conversations like that it’s like we’re trying to debase something that is of societal importance, which is equality and commitment through the law in the form of marriage, into something which is much more basic and trying to almost dehumanise sections of the society.
The show’s presenter Niall Delaney also questioned Burke on his focus with Burke then responding: “We’re all given heterosexual bodies Niall.”
“When someone uses their body in a way that it’s not designed for, their whole mind suffers,” he added.
Burke then asked Meehan directly about sexual activity between two men.
“All of the secondary school students across the country are fully aware of what one man and one woman do when they enter into a sexual act,” he said.
But what we’re not really so clear on is what two men do. Maybe Declan you could enlighten us on that, on what two men do when they enter into a sexual act?
Meehan attempted to return the debate to the issue of marriage.
“I think it’s very interesting that someone from the No campaign is not taking on board the legal and constitution ramifications of a Yes vote,” he said.
Burke, however, continued to ask Meehan about sex: “But what about the sexual act Declan? You’re refusing to talk about the sexual act.”
Meehan said Burke needed to “take a long hard look at himself”:
I’d almost find it hilarious if it wasn’t so offensive. Instead, he’s resorting to asking me about what sexual conduct between two men involves. I think Isaac you need to take a long hard look at yourself and come back to the table with some constructive arguments.
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Me thinks he’s a little too curious….
With a name like Isaac he never really stood a chance did he? Bless him.
The Newton fella done a fair job.
I noticed that anti gay guy really wanted to talk about gay sex to the point it sounded like the gay guy was embarrassed.
Missionary position is your only man.
@Gerard
What is wrong with you? This is a discussion about a constitutional referendum on marriage and you are back talking about anal sex. What is your obsession with what gay guys do in the PRIVACY of the own home! News Flash: Anal sex has always been quite mainstream in straight sex. And if you compare the number of straights to gays, there would be more anal sex in the heterosexual community. Grow up and stop behaving like a 7 year old who heard the word sex for the first time. Pathetic!
Speak for yourself George. Oh, I suppose you are. Ya boy ya..
@YNWA NY
Gerard, you are probably using the wrong lube
It’s not so long ago that a judge would utter the words “you have been convicted of buggery, buggery most foul” when passing a severe jail sentence for the act which is an intrinsic part of homosexual marriage.
Lights off, please, Aoife.
Yeah “it’s no so long ago ” that you couldn’t get condoms over the counter in ireland either , thankfully we have moved on from things “not so long ago”
Why do people focus so much on gay men and ignore the many lesbian couples who may wish to marry.
Most homophobes love the idea of two girls getting it off
“When someone uses their body in a way that it’s not designed for, their whole mind suffers,” – like if we fly? Or drink milk? Or run marathons? Or give birth on our backs? Or sit down all day? Or get surgery? Or take medicine? Or go on the internet?
Stephanie don’t be so naive please. Its not only about yes or no voting. They are will doing a lot of laws after that how to get other people children and soon they are will do gay kindergartens/ nursery schools and schools where not allowed to speak word as “girls” and “boys”, because all people humans and toys and etc. That all done in other countries in Sweden, Danish and other countries done yes voting. They are would like to grow up normal families children who lost job or went in bad economy. We already have civil partnership law so they are actually not need more or you have to pray that you will never run into a bad situation.
Actually, Ulle, Ireland is the only country voting this issue. Just FYI.
I’m wondering if you’d be happy trading your marriage for civil partnership?
You really need to proof read or only comment when sober
Also what proof is there that our bodies were even designed in the first place?
Wow. Lashes. You do English good…
Utterly convinced. Hey? Can I say ‘ moron’ on this?
I am currently learning English language and it doesn’t matter how much I will do mistakes.
You can read about Sweden gay kindergarten problems here for example: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/genderneutral-preschool-accused-of-mind-control-2305983.html
And here a little bit more: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/world/europe/swedish-school-de-emphasizes-gender-lines.html?_r=0
I have actually some good gay friends, but I do not like when it is pressed onto the children. They must have the rights to choose what they are want in future.
That’s like saying: some of my best friends are Jewish, Muslin, black and so on, but…
I’m willing to take one for the team and show him exactly what’s involved. Hit me up anytime Isaac if you’re curious.
Ha! Brilliant. I’m gone from furious to laughing ;)
I was about to direct them to a few websites but if your willing to ‘take one for the team’ then away you go.
Swordfight?
Oohhh Sammy, you dirty thing. What you need is a good hard Mass!
If it was legalised it wouldn’t be as much fun anymore…
Is Isaac Burke a relative of Martina Burke and Enoch Burke, the brother-sister pair who recently appeared on Liveline to protest this mural?
Enoch is apparently @TopCat on Journal.
The Burke family seriously need to take their minds out of other peoples’ bedrooms and focus on their own lives.
“Enoch is apparently @TopCat on Journal.” Well that would explain a lot so!
@TopCat, didn’t you recently state on Journal that you are PRO of Mandate for Marriage – the organisation Isaac was speaking for?
Care to clarify why your organisation is obsessed with sex?
Brother of Eunoch, Son of Martina she is the mother. Only 7 more kids for you to meet
But TopCat has a dead mammy. TopCat wouldn’t lie!
He’s been posting that his mother died ..
Liars for Jesus ..
Jaysis!!! Are they all named after the characters from ‘Children of the Corn’ ?
They are really beginning to come across as Irelands answer to The Westboro Baptist Church. All though at least one of the Phelps family is an outspoken critic of the ‘church’ so I suppose there is hope for this lot too.
Yes. And they’re all pr*cks too.
@Fergal Kelly:
They’re all Berks!
I knew TC hasnt expressly denied it, but is there actually evidence that they are one and the same?
@Shanti:
TopCat’s post on a previous Journal story that he’s PRO of Mandate for Marriage (the group Isaac above represented on Ocean FM).
Plus Joe Duffy’s whole programme a couple of Friday’s ago featuring Martina Burke and Enoch Burke who refused to answer Joe’s direct question as to whether they were related.
The evidence is fairly strong…
Care to comment, @TopCat !? You’re being uncommonly quiet on a Referendum-related comments thread…
It’ll be interesting to see if tweets from Top Cat reduce and another account of convenience pops up. My, it must be incredibly embarrassing to be outed and have your identity associated with such extreme posts. Any chance of a political career are down the pan now!
Thanks for the clarification winding down..
He was always claiming that he had to use a pseudonym to protect his business from Pro equality people sing him for discrimination, which makes his choice to set up a specific lobby group with the sole aim of denying rights to gay people and put his name to it all the more amusing..
Seems it was all lies, but that’s not even slightly surprising..
In fairness, that’s not really evidence. Could be right but two people on a radio show not denying they are related has more to do with making the callers look like they’re not all sitting in a room together taking turns.
@Dave:
Still waiting for @TopCat to clarify whether he is PRO for Mandate for Marriage since I believe he said as much before…. He’s gone awfully quiet.
Regarding Liveline, I should point out that Martina had a phantom whisperer on her end of the line feeding her comments about the mural – it was hilarious stuff – when Joe asked outright if she could confirm she was related to Enoch, the voice clearly whispered “deny” to her. It was very clearly audible and a third caller commented on it at that time!
Both Martina and Enoch were unwilling/unable to confirm or deny Joe’s question.
So much for a mother’s rights to know her child.
“Isaac Burke of MAN – DATE for Marriage”… sounds kinda gay
This is incredibly offensive. It’s nobody’s business. Love is love.
I’d like to see him asking a religious heterosexual man or woman what they get up to in the bedroom…. See how that pans out
Yes Voters in shocking intimidatory ISIS styled video
Now you know what it’s like to be outed!
Like all the no commentators on here, he is obsessed by gay sex.
Weirdos.
Nah
Top cat do you get turned on by this ?
Anal passage is an exit not an entrance
Ah paddy every hole is a goal.
No paddy I’m actually very anal ;)
Paddy, don’t dispair, there are lots of other things you can do with your boyfriend. Keep your chin up ;-)
Top Cat
I don’t believe that is genuine.
Looks like a Burke family home video to me. Those posters look straight of the printer, not like there weathered on a lamp post for a few days, or tie holes.
Where’s the holes from the cable ties in those posters??
That video should be investigated by the Garda. Their forensic engineers would be able to identify the origin of the address from which it was uploaded. It screams of being a set-up by the ‘no’ side and not a very good one at that!
Very amateur. Was it you or Isaac who shot it? Very poor lighting.
Tell all those heterosexuals then.
Oh and the the mouth is not a receptacles for seed, so blow-jobs are out too, for everyone.
I love my dog… But not in that way lol.
You would think that no straight couples engage in anal sex or fellatio! Sex is sex, it is to do with pleasure and intimacy for every couple regardless of gender.
These guys don’t sound like they know anything about enjoyable sex.
These guys don’t sound like they know anything about sex. Full Stop!
On the words of Garda Gerry Boyle “I am familiar with the mechanics of it”
I didn’t realise we were voting on sex! I hope the BAI have a good listen to the interview
There is no way to justify that question
I think the only redeeming factor in Isaac’s behaviour is that at least he was honest… He does not want same sex marriage because he thinks how they have sex is icky.. Its a ridiculous reason but at least he was honest about it. I’m pretty sure that’s what a lit of the no voters think but instead bring up every type of argument that they can think of, most particularly about the welfare of children and how cumbersome it will be to change laws that should be changed anyway, in an attempt to hide their real reason.
So much this. Just tell us how you really feel!
Very good point. The most honest give vent to their feelings and let it all out.
It’s not pretty but it is, as you say, honest.
Why don’t you tell us, (in minute detail now – don’t hold back) what you get up to with the mrs when you get home Isaac, eh? What a despicable excuse for a moral human being.
Debbie I think we can all assume he gets up to sweet f all.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, some no campaigners have an unhealthy interest in bumsex.
By the way Isaac, women can and do take it up the gary aswell! Read a book about sex sometime. Way more enlightening than the bible!
He should probably read up on the aul sex, just in case he ever wants to try it.
Lots of straight couples love anal sex. I know a woman whos mad for it. She prefers it that way. A mans G spot is up his bum, I wonder why……
Well, Mike,
Maybe God is female and was having a joke, when “creating” men, or it’s just one of the curiosities of nature.
“take it up the gary”
Daisy! You beast! I just snorted most of a can of fanta out my nose.
Priceless.
How much more of this homophobic nonsense do the gay community have to endure in this campaign? I hope all those No supporters are proud of their spokesman what a disgusting individual!
Rickyyyy Spannniissshh
Your username has made my day, mate.
We need more imbeciles like Burke representing the NO side, they do more damage to the NO cause than anything the YES campaign could ever say.
Just goes to show what goes on in the minds of these No campaigners is as most people suspected.
How weird to be that interested in gay sex, if you are ‘against’ it.
Note how these people never ask what two women do.
Technically lesbian sex is the safest because you are least likely to contract an STI that way
@Stephanie.*ahem* Sure there’s no such thing as lesbians.Just girls who haven’t found the right man yet. *ahem*
Go have lesbian sex then ,Jesus wept
We’ve all seen the videos Martina ;-)
Er…Stephanie. Is Martina your second name at least?? :-/
I’m afraid not.
I cringe when I see those vids, Gel nails like !! Automatic leg cross, but seriously at the end of it most relationship is like the other sex becomes complacent it dwindles down to companionship and cuddlying.
But there are some older folk out there still giving it socks :)
That’s always baffled me.. Why are the people who are most against homosexuality always the ones most obsessed with the sexual act?
It is nothing about gay sex but ratings and being controversial… That is how they make their money…
Finally someone from the No side has the balls to stand up and say what this campaign is really about!!!
Hear hear I say!
The truth is this referendum isn’t about silly things like love, equality, surrogacy or child rights…
…its about a general feeling of ickyness about other people sexual conduct, justified by nothing less than a fundamental religious belief.
Vote No on may 22nd to keep this muppet in his ridicules dark age bubble.
The Burkes alone are worth a couple of hundred thousand votes to the yes side, I’d say.
More Berks please.
Oooops, Burkes.
Allow me to educate Isaac about anal sex.
Firstly – men and women have anal sex as well.
Secondly – women have anal sex with each other as well.
Thirdly – men have anal sex with each other, but of course Isaac knows this.
The “top” penetrates the anus with his/her penis, or a dildo, or a strap-on.
The “bottom” has his / her anus penetrated with the penis or dildo, or strap-on.
It really is quite simple Isaac. If you want to be educated about dildos or strap-ons, I can point you to some very illustrative websites. You might even like them. Go on, live a little.
Some times the bottom penetrates IE reverse cowboy :)
It’s all getting a bit steamy here…. Yay anal for everyone :)
That’s not reverse cowboy :-) Reverse cowboy is when the top faces away from the bottom, so that the bottom sees the back of the top! ;-)
Extra points for a double flip back somersault dismount
Don’t forget the lube!!! For goodness sakes don’t forget the lube!
This comment seems blatantly discriminatory against the small minority of couples (of either or both sexes) who can somehow simultaneously anally penetrate each other.
Damn, I forgot about double-ended dildos!
No discrimination intended, those who enjoy simultaneous anal sex are just as equal as all the other practitioners of anal sex, or indeed, any sex. And while I’m at it, I include transgender folks who are into anal as well.
Anal sex for some, miniature holy water bottles shaped like the virgin Mary for others!
‘Mandate for Marriage is a website established by Mr Sean Burke, who lives in Castlebar, Co. Mayo with his wife and family. He presents the case that marriage is between a man and a woman, and that this definition is in the best interests of the stability of the family, the rearing of children, and the protection of religious liberty. Sean is assisted in the campaign by his two sons. Enoch Burke is the official spokesperson and media representative for Mandate for Marriage. Isaac Burke is responsible for media productions at Mandate for Marriage’.
From the MandateforMarriage.org website
‘The polling booth is a private place’ ……… clearly the bedroom isn’t …….. to Isaac Burke, Media Producer
#VoteYes
Why only a man date for marriage? What about a Woman date?
It sounds like he is ready to change sides at the first opportunity, Man-Date for Marriage.
On a more serious note, I think we’ve all heard the first cuckoo of summer now!!
if you think that Isaac Burke has stooped as low as you can go, I guarantee that we will hear far worse in attempts to incite revulsion against our gay brothers and gay sisters before the Referendum campaign is over on the 22nd May next.
Many of the NO voters remain under slimy rocks and only emerge during these liberalising campaigns, and ooze back under their rocks when the campaigns are over.
“Slime” is an inadequate expression for “Mandate for Marriage”.
Mandate? Man date… heh heh heh!
Last time the die hards were the lords of misinformation it was 1996 and it was goodbye daddy and daddy was saying goodbye to his farm. And every one was getting a few divorce in every packet of corn flakes.
These religious types are always so informative about sex ,
Only in wedlock
Missionary position
Making pronouncements about the heritage of wedlock ( untrue )
Making pronouncements about the natural world ( biased and unfounded )
That they have the gall because of their beliefs ,to ignore established facts ,imply gay people are unfit not only to parent but to be around kids AND to whinge when they are called out as bigots beggars belief .
Thanks for the info Mr Burke ,like the rest of Ireland gay and straight well keep our own counsel as to what is a loving expression of human sexuality as much as it it a part of what defines us ,it is private and does not need to be justified to the likes of you .
What tickles me is the bizarre language they use.
“enter into a sexual act” when is this ever used by anyone other than no side weirdos like the Burkes? Why not say “when they have sex”?
Progeny is another, what’s wrong with “children”.
Procreation – what’s wrong with “having children”.
One I read recently announced “a man and a man cannot become one flesh”. WTF?!
An educated person does be educated about many things, I am a religious type and have educated myself about many things, being religious does not mean being a prune?
You may be a prune but maybe try a date.
I feel more like a Quince, lol.
This is the squalling death cry of the No side! They can’t come up with any justification that doesn’t involve their sky fairy or obsession with what consenting adults do in their own bedroom. Grow up and get a life.
I think this is why Iona have finally registered as a TP and will probably have the Vitamin B12 shots lined up for David Quinn for the next few weeks.
With self-loathing weirdos like Keith Mills, woefully ill-informed opportunists like Kate Bopp and… well I don’t even know what to describe the Burkes as. He’s probably been crawling the walls every time they appear on the TV or radio.
Somewhere in a courtroom, David Quinn is trying to have the Burkes placed under house arrest.
I am in shock at this. The No side ladies and gentlemen!! I thank this person so much for this interview, he has done the YES side a huge service!! I say to all my YES friends, see it as this! Stay on point, and don’t be drawn in to these insane arguments from the no side. They are showing their colours and helping us without us needing to say a word. Also , stop responding to the trolls on here, it gives the tiny no side a microphone far in excess of what their opinions deserve. YES YES YES!!!
You never used to get this on The Gay Byrne Hour.
Burke sounds like an odious little creep who can only imagine gay people by what they do in bed.
I wonder what people will think of this forum in thirty years time?
*cringe*
What, Socmot’s way of using a story to use naught words lol.
You couldn’t make this tory up.
Don’t worry guys, Ireland will vote yes, the no camp will hate even more! Top cat don’t pretend you havent tried it!! The no campaign have no decent argument, do they think that less guys and girls will be gay if Ireland doesn’t allow gay marriage!
I was once asked how two women have sex
One starts at one end if the room, the other at the other end and both run as fast as they can into each other. Some practice safe how and strap pillows to each other
Ended the conversation very quickly
In that case I think I had lesbian sex with my best friend when we were eight.
I don’t think I’ll bring that up when I see him at Christmas.
I was told sex with a man would be the best sex id ever get. They know what to do I guess having the same piece of kit.
Jesus Christ.
Yeah Jesus Christ said , “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God” Jesus Christ is against this referendum for in the beginning he created them male and female for a reason but sure who would listen to that guy only some nut eh
No drunkards? Well we’re fairly fecked as a nation then I guess. All the more reason to vote yes! In for a penny in for a pound!
Jesus isn’t a Irish citizen so he should keep his beak out of it
This is from the Old Testament, Corinthians 6:10. You are clearly clueless about your own theology. I’ll tell you what Jesus said about homosexuality: Absolutely Nothing. He did tell us to love thy neighbour and that none of us have the right to judge others, but sure who would listen to that guy only some nut eh?
Jamie, you sound so self righteous you must be certain that you have entry to Heaven!
Jamie, that sounds like Paul’s letters to the Corinthians. It was not Jesus Christ or on behalf of Jesus Christ. Read the Sermon on the Mount a d you get closer to the essence of the message true Christianity.
By the way, I’m an atheist and a humanist and I hold no candle for religion.
The KKK often quoted the Bible on their lynchings.
When Sheehy Skeffington, a pacifist, was summarily executed (murdered) the Army Captain who executed him read at his long passages from the Bible. Many have been put to the sword on the name of the Bible.
Stephanie you drunk ! ,let’s get wasted , !
these words of Jesus are recorded: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” just injecting some truth in the debate that’s all.the truth is hard to hear sometimes with all the lies getting in the way.
Why did you decide to quote the bible and not Tintin or Harry Potter? Genuine question
That’s not truth its ideology ,
You’re welcome
“25 And the Lord spake unto the Angel that guarded the eastern gate, saying ‘Where is the flaming sword that was given unto thee?’
26 And the Angel said, ‘I had it here only a moment ago, I must have put it down some where, forget my own head next.’
27 And the Lord did not ask him again.”
Jamie, if you quote the bible, I quote “Good Omens”, sound fair?
@ Jamie you do know that the word homosexual didn’t come in to existence for hundreds of years after the bible was written.
@garret mccord:
Corinthians is in the New Testament, Garrett unless you have a very rare edition!
That’s a good story Jamie. Any more fairy tales?
Hope you don’t wear polyester or eat shellfish or cut the hair around your temples. Oh, and while we are at it, the Bible has some interesting thoughts on marriage.. Like forcing rape victims to marry their attackers.
Why are all anti-gay people obsessed with anal sex
Stephen Fry did a 2 part documentary on homophobia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9ytwGW9eO0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc19KxerK7U
and they all seem very mad about it
or should that be mad for it?
Because some people find some things offensive and it is people who do not understand this who thinks they have alternative motives. The thing is not everyone is the same and the reason this happened on the radio was for ratings that bring in advertising?
I think it’s got something to do with wrestling , like they do on the telly .
Apparently you have to keep one hand in the air at all times and shout ‘yeehaw!’
Oh brother, what is Ireland coming to?
I’m 100% behind equaity and believe in and support the human rights of homosexuals . I really don’t have a problem with any of that. In fact, very close family members are openly gay and I love them to bits.
However, to me, equality means ‘the same as’. Therefore, I think, I am being asked to affirm by voting Yes that the joining together of two same-sex people is the same as the joining together of two different-sex people.
On this really simple level, I have difficulty affirming a de facto contradiction. How can the joining together of two different-sex people be exactly the same as the joining together of two same-sex people. It just doesn’t seem logical, it’s different so how can it be the same? Can someone tell me, am I not just getting this?
Undecided …..
You are ignoring the mutual love, intimacy, commitment, sharing and union in favour of a reductionist, mechanistic and superficial assessment. You see the physical but not the emotional.
Open your mind and open your heart and you will be able to see gay and straight loving relationships in all of their beautiful dimensions.
Peter. I have a son and I have a daughter. They are different but I love them equally. they are different but equal. Why should one loving relationship between consenting unrelated adults be afforded more rights than another?
ALL people are different, regardless of genitalia.
Peter it’s about being treated the same before the law and under the constitution. No two heterosexual couples are the same either, but they are treated the same by the law.
Peter I’m kind of sad to think you think like this, its simply you do right thing, personally I know quite a few people who should never have got married all heterosexual of course.
Listen to Anthony, Peter – open your mind and your heart.
Paul, you will open neither because you are full of bitterness and hate.
You have caused immense emotional distress to one young gay man who posted a comment, which you attacked in a highly personalised way.
I reassured the poster than you were oblivious to what you are doing and I asked him to forgive you.
You are of very negative disposition and have a very negative view of gay people. For this reason, I intend to avoid engaging with yiu and to confine myself to the debate of the substantive merits instead of getting into a “Punch and Judy” show to which you are sadly addicted.
The debate on same sex marriages encourages out some unpleasant types such as yiu but the cause of same sex marriage is just and good and worth having to put up with your unopleasant and prejudiced diatribes.
Listen, to Anthony, Peter.
He can comfort you. While he’s doing that he’ll use exactly the same language that the FG campaign team use. Open your heart.
Passing the Referendum will enable loving gay couples who are committed to each other to obtain the societal endorsement of full and equal legal recognition by same sex civil marriage.
Same sex civil marriage takes nothing away. It adds to the potential for human happiness. It is a good and just thing to do.
Hi Peter I am straight up for equality. For me equality is treating people the same such as gender, age, ethnicity, religion ( all differences). This will not change anything for heterosexual couples or religious weddings, for me its a human right to be able to marry the person you love , nothing more or less. Vote yes to support equal rights for all Irish Citizens
I think this article sums up the mentality of the No camp very well.
Well isaac Burke, you done more for the yes side in that interview than any campaigning, murals or debate could. Thank you, exposed yourself for what you are. I hope a lot of those on the fence now see what the real issues here are, vote yes for equality, vote no if you want to punish people for doing things you find ‘distasteful’ but really is absolutely none of your business
I was told by a gay friend of mine that docking can be quite fun.
Because sex between straight couples is always exactly the same? What did he want, a list of positions?
Here’s a list of “unnatural” things I have done already today.
I used an immersion to heat water.
I shaved.
I ate a processed breakfast cereal grown primarily in a continent not discovered for about 1400 years after the bible was written.
I drank pasteurised milk.
I wore shoes with synthetic soles.
I watched tv.
I read a newspaper, a technology not available until the 15th century.
I entered a building designed on computer.
I drove a car.
I cycled a bike.
I sent a text.
I sent several whatapp messages.
I checked on a friend’s MRI scan by phone. Turns out he just has sciatica…hope he talks natural remedies.
And it’s not even noon.
Hi Isaac.
I listened to your piece on the radio today and I wanted to voice my concern over what you were expounding as “fact”. With deep respect I would like to offer you another way to look at this debate that is actually based on scientific evidence, research and respect for the dignity of all human life and love (when between two consenting adults).
I’m sorry that you are struggling so hard to open your hearts enough to allow for diversity and variety. Your strong focus on the “the sexual conduct” within same sex relationships is worrying to a professional such as myself because it can, for some people, be an indication that they themselves are drawn to same-sex experiences but for their own reasons are unable to allow themselves to feel that joy. It follows then that they tend towards preventing others from engaging in same sex experiences in order to validate their internalised homophobia.
If that is not the case, then your argument would seem to come down to an overt homophobia and bias that as we know, creates hatred, violence and bigotry. This only worries me because I hope that all people can find real joy and empowerment in their sexual lives – not because I suspect you might be same sex attracted. Because for me that is nothing to be ashamed of. Love is hard enough to find in this world. I believe we should encourage and nurture love where ever possible and try to come together to fight the real threats to our society such as poverty, lack of education and corruption.
Just to say, as a clinical sexologist who is an expert in human sexuality, our bodies are made for all kinds of pleasure. There is no ONE sexual act between men and women, men and men or women and women and to publicly state that there is, highlights your lack of education on the subject. I feel I should also point out that 40% of heterosexual couples have or do engage in anal sex – just in case you were alluding to that act in particular as something that only gay men engage in. Some gay relationships involve no form of penetrative sex at all, which is similar to straight relationships. Oral sex is also sex, as is masturbation, and for older couples or couples living with chronic pain or illness, sometimes kissing and gentle touch is sex to them because it is all they are able for. The point is that for many people being sexual is about connection and intimacy and that can happen in many ways depending on the individuals.
This is just a tiny taste of the kind of information you are clearly missing in your argument. If you are truly open to learning and to accepting others based on respect and dignity, I’m sure you will not only find this information useful, but will adapt your argument to incorporate some of it.
I would be happy to meet you for a coffee in order to further discuss this issue with you from a sexological perspective. I have no problem sitting down with people who hold views such as yours though they are not my views and I know many people, young and old who would find your views distasteful.
Finally, your statement that having same sex experiences creates mental suffering is one that I would love to see backed up by reliable research. I can certainly show you research with the same findings but the reasons people suffer are due to being judged, rejected and deemed sinful by their families, friends and themselves. Not because of the acts.
Anyway I hope this is useful to you. Please feel free to check out my website http://www.empowersme.com for more information along with the World Association of Sexual Health and the World Health Organisation for reliable, current information based on empirical research regarding sexuality.
I wish you well
Emily Power Smith
BURN! This is the best thing Ive read all week:)
Its a debate, you cant pick and choose which questions you like……..
Questions should be relevant to the issue being debated though. Which isn’t the merits of heterosexual v homosexual sex acts.
The trouble is that the questions you (repeatedly) ask can highlight how ill- focussed and ignorant of the issues at hand you are.
Actually, yes, you can. That’s precisely how free speech works. One man can ask questions and another man can tell him that’s a stupid question.
How about asking the kids effected?
http://thefederalist.com/2015/03/17/dear-gay-community-your-kids-are-hurting/
So I get all the red thumbs but nobody actually deals with the argument.
Here we have a lady who was brought up by her mother and same sex lover and now distant agree with same sex marriage. Are the Yes side going to acknowledge this lady or just ignore her views.
That’s it guys. A lady says she was brought up by her mother and lesbian friend and she opposes same sex marriage. Red thumb me but won’t deal with the question.
We’ve read the far-right Bible-belt bullshit a billion times,we know the score. These anecdotal and isolated stories are not reflective of reality. If your neighbours dog bit you would you demand that all of the dogs in your neighbourhood be put down? Get a grip man.
So if I was unhappy with my upbringing I can blame traditional marriage?
It’s conventional to blame the government.
But if you really want to upset your mother, stay on that path.
I’ve responded to this in another article if you care to read it.
That girl is from a broken home, lamenting the loss of a father who decided he wasn’t interested in preserving their relationship.
Maybe she wants to blame her mum, but her dad is the issue there. And maybe she should try and be grateful to those who actually did try to be there for her.
But her deep sense of loss and anguish is her father’s fault.
Ps, limited numbers of poor outcomes are to be expected, have you seen heterosexual parents? Not all perfect.. It stands to reason that if not all heterosexual parents are perfect that there’s no reasonable expectation for all homosexual parents to be.
After all, they’re all still HUMAN parents.
Shanti.
With respect you are not reading the article and you are making a lot of assumptions. This lady doesn’t speak well of her father. She does speak well of her mother and her partner. She says they loved her and brought her up in a most loving environment.
What she is saying and the only point she is making is that she desperately missed a father figure in her life.
It’s very easy for the Yes side to give me 100 red thumbs but much more difficult to deal with the argument.
Please don’t deflect from this by saying there are unhappy heterosexual families. This lady is specific about the problem. Do we want to silence her because it doesn’t fit nicely with the Yes vote?
Play the ball please and not the man.
I’m neither right wing nor a bible basher. Are we going to deny this lady her view? Shanti analyses her upbringing and blames her father and says she should be grateful for those who help her.
Sorry? Are we going to silence her because she doesn’t share your view?
I believe most same sex couples are very loving and doing their best for their children, sorry adopted children.
We may not be getting the whole truth here though because it’s difficult for any child to be critical of their parents publicly. I tent to believe there are many children in same sex families who felt a void in their lives but their voices will never speak.
And what part of this referendum will stop gay couples having children Tom?
Gay couples don’t have children. They adopt or one on them is the parent with the other parent absent.
Secondly, you are again ignoring the point I made.
This lady was brought up by her mother and lesbian partner. They loved her and treated her well but she missed the father in her life.
Nobody is addressing that.
Excuse me but gay people do have children I have a friend who is gay but is the biological mother of her child. Just because she is not with the childs biological father does not make her any less of a mother Tom. Gay people do indeed have children.
here toolbox, have a read of this and tell me a No Vote is about children. God you people are just so full of shit. Yesterday I heard my neighbour screaming at her four year old son that if he didnt shut the F**K up she would stab him. Her fella gave her a slap. The child cried on and on and the woman screamed. This child im sure in the future will talk about how his family was a mess and he grew up in a bad situation with two terrible HETEROSEXUAL parents. Lets talk about that for a second before you keep going back to this one flawed story. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/children-s-rights-groups-urge-yes-vote-in-same-sex-marriage-referendum-1.2190832
You cant claim that bringing your bike up the dirt track is in any way normal…. its not right.
I know many gays and theyre sound but I try not to think of them as being receivers of swollen goods , its gross to think of it.
Must be harder to write about it .. Poor lamb , is it harder ?
But what if it’s a mountain bike? Seeing as that’s what I bought it for?!!?
And some motorbikes, with the right tyres, can go up dirt tracks. If it isn’t too much of an incline!!
Richard I’ve enjoyed all your comments on this thread…. Keep up the good work.
Cheers Laura ,Top cat is Enoch Burke .. Spread the word X
How did you twig this?
For a lot of gay men, penetrative sex is not an act that they engage in. This can be for a number of reasons, but most commonly because they just do not find it enjoyable. These men still have perfectly functioning intimate relationships and the idea that gay sexuality, and by extension gay people’s entire identity, revolves around one sex act is totally ludicrous. In fact, it is hugely damaging and offensive.
As for you trying not to imagine two gay men having anal sex – it is amazing that you feel the need to publish such a statement and add to a sense of shame being thrust upon gay men.
If I don’t ‘like to think about’ elderly people having functioning sex lives, does that give me the right to publicly shame them for doing so? No, obviously not. I respect them as people, respect their desires and right to physically express their love for one another. Whether such acts appeal to me personally is irrelevant.
Plus a million there, there maybe tops and bottoms but there’s is also Sides, I only found out this recently looking at Russell t Davis Cucumber the lead character Henry was a Side.
Brendinian I take it your real name isn’t Wayne Rooney then?
I said ‘if’ Laura…….
Well said brendinian
That was supposed to be pretty tongue in cheek Laura, but the journal decided to delete the winky face :(
Figured that but if you’re into it I’ve an 80 year old granny who hasn’t seen any action for a few years ;)
I’ll give her a few more years to ripen if that’s ok….
Generally I don’t cycle up dirt roads.I usually just take the Land Rover.
*boom boom *
What a nice thing to say about your gran. Stay classy.
Any less classy that constantly badgering a man ,during a supposedly respectful debate, about what he gets up to with a consenting adult when they are having sex?
Don’t worry tom my granny isn’t as up tight as you… She enjoys a laugh, is totally inappropriate at times and is voting yes. At her age she knows life is to be enjoyed
Ahem! I thought marriage was a “consummate” affair!! So how does a gay or lesbian consummate their “marriage”? It is not a nice question but is it relevant to this debate or not?
In a variety if sexual positions like most married couples
Watch queer as folk… The sex scenes should really open your eyes. After watching it I wished I was a gay man.
How do straight people consummate it? Do you demand to see the bloodied sheets to ensure that the new wife’s virginity has been appropriately vanquished?
You do realised that this is the 21st century.
Ok. Just gotta say this. They guy posting as “tom” is not me. It looks like his real name is Sean.
If you want to know the difference it’s this:
I have no interest in what other people do in bed.
I don’t ask gay friends.
I don’t ask straight friends.
I am married myself and if a person asked me about my sex life, they would get a blank look and then be told about this amazing concept called “a private life.”
If they were so obsessed that they wanted to know what I did behind closed doors, I would have them committed to a mental institution for being a sexual obsessive.
So yo clarify that person is Sean but posts under the name “tom”. I’m just Tom.
Same Declan Meehan who broke the Coláiste Eoin story?
It’s the kind of thing that would make a school principal very nervous and it looks like this is what the presenter was getting at.
He would not answer as he knows it is wrong,could not defend it.great boost to no side. Vote no ,protect the children and be able to sleep at night knowing you have protected the children of this country.
Vote yes if you want to ensure that the children of gay couples have the same protection as children of straight couples. The Children and Family Relationships Bill deals with surrogacy and adoption. This referendum is about equality! Vote yes, please!
Sounds like your mind is as closed as your ass cheeks….. It let’s the sh!t out ok but its too afraid to try something new.
NEWSFLASH!! NEWSFLASH!!
Straight couples engage in anal sex FAR more than heterosexual couples do!
He wouldn’t answer it because it had NOTHING to do with the debate. You can’t just boil ANY relationship down to only focus on their sex lives. It’s ridiculous!!
How can you claim to be worried about Children when EVERY Child protection and care agency in the country has come out to say YES is the only way to protect children? Children need protecting from bigotry and ignorance, so hopefully you dont and wont have any. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/children-s-rights-groups-urge-yes-vote-in-same-sex-marriage-referendum-1.2190832
How about this link.
Are we going to deny this girl her view?
http://thefederalist.com/2015/03/17/dear-gay-community-your-kids-are-hurting/
is she registered to vote here?
Seems like her beef is with divorce itself, rather than the upbringing she received (which she professed she loved)
You’re about 19 years too late to make that point, Tom!!
On a serious note , how gay couple have sex is their own business , but i cant help wondering if “leo the minister for everything but health” is a virgin or has he done it yet ????
That’s a more than a little bit freaky wondering if someone you’ve never met has had sex?!? Thought you ‘no’ siders were fed up hearing about sex from gay people? You’re a little bit odd, d’you know that?!?
It is sick two men having sex just not right and I’m still entitled to my opinion goodnight!!
Of course you’re entitled to your opinion. I want to hear more of your opinions.What’s sick about it?
Depends where they are doing it, in their home or yours but it seems more likely to be in your head I think lol…
I don’t think he’d be able to get it hard if he was looking at himself, drag is the only solution!!
To be honest, I don’t quite get the idea of two men or two women having sex together but that’s hardly the point in the ‘Marriage for All’ referendum is it? To me it’s quite simple, it’s about giving the same legal entitlement for all genders and who can honestly say they oppose that?
Just look at the poster.. Seriously?
Seriously? Man-date for marriage? Which side is he on?
If sex was about making babies, it would take about ten seconds, like it does for most animals. Clearly it is about a lot more for primates in general and humans in particular.
People who ask what two men do, or two women do in bed are as much as confessing that they have no clue about foreplay or 90% of what constitutes pleasurable sex. Because penetration and orgasm is about 10% of the whole process, blow-jobs are amazing and the cervical orgasm doers not exist, so if that’s all you’re doing, then you are missing out on a LOT.
Within 10 years there will be a lot of people in Ireland with VD and other sexual diseases!
Sad!
If he’s so obsessed with what 2 gay men do for sex I guess he was just thinking about it all day and is probably a closeted homo
If this is the best Mandate for Marriage can do then the yes vote is very safe!
“All of the secondary school students across the country are fully aware of what one man and one woman do when they enter into a sexual act,”
He is clearly not aware of the horendiously bad shape our sex education is.
Also all this take of what bodies are naturally capable of, is he not aware that straight couples have anal sex?
Apparently he and his lady don’t even have oral sex or masturbate, which is another form of ‘sex against the order of nature’ but is also ‘the number one way that women reach orgasm’.
I made to point above about the lady who was reared by her mother and lesbian friend. They loved her and treated her well. She longed though for the father figure in her life and now opposes same sex marriage. Don’t shoot the messenger. Discuss.
Séan, if you were the messanger, why do you pretend to be me? It’s a tad creepy, even by journal.ie standards.
Man you spook easily. It’s not that creepy really when you think about it. My name is there. What’s the problem?
I don’t use twitter. I merely set up an account to post here. You can chill out.
Now, any chance you could address the point I made? Lady brought up by her mother and lesbian lover opposes same sex marriage as she missed a father figure in her life.
Pearse McAuley, cop killer, murderer, violent psychopath and all round A – hole, who has never contributed dick to this country, was allowed to get married to a woman in prison, a self appointed counsellor from SF, have conjugal visits with her. On release from prison he was permitted to have children. He is currently charged with assaulting his wife which may or may not extend to attempted murder when he stands trial. He beat the woman unconscious. I am sure his kids would prefer to have been raised by tax paying non violent homosexuals than witnessing their dad almost kill their mum.
And if he is convicted, and if his wife leaves him and he gets divorced…he will STILL have the right to marry. And if he gets convicted and his wife does not divorce him…His previous right to marry will not be revoked.
As regards using your name or not, maybe that’s just a basic manners thing. When I say something, I put my name to it. I don’t lie about it. But I am sure Sean that you have your reasons.
So if I called myself Enda Kenny or some other pseudo name that would be ok. I ask again to address the point and acknowledge that same sex parenting doesn’t work for everybody.
I think the great unknown here is how many children brought up by loving same sex couples still have that longing for a mum dad structure? Just because they are not speaking out doesn’t mean the feeling isn’t there. Most people don’t publicly question their upbringing especially in a subject as sensitive as this.
Again don’t worry about a pseudo name. My name is Sean Slevin. I could have any name and it proves nothing anyway. I am human, trust me.
Tom I think you are having trouble accepting that within ALL relationships there are disappointments, mistakes made, poor parenting choices and loss. This woman has every right to miss her father. But perhaps her birth parents were better off separated and perhaps she had a safer, more nurturing up-bringing without her father and mother trying to remain together. Who knows?
The bottom line is there are lots of children who miss their birth parents and many miss their deceased parents or parents they never knew and there are children who miss quality time with parents they live with. The mother could have ended up in a straight relationship and the daughter may have missed her dad just as much because she just…missed…her dad. Sometimes nothing can change that.
Isn’t it also important to acknowledge that she was brought up well and safely by two women in a loving relationship?
Tom, your theoretical child of those parents opposes the right of completely different people to legally marry?
That’s like saying I oppose your right to own a red bicycle as I fell off one as a kid.
Séan, of course same sex parenting doesn’t work for everybody. Mixed sex parenting doesn’t work for everybody either. So would you ban mixed sex parenting?
What about widowed parents? They face an especially harrowing time as now only do they have only a single income, but they have to deal with enormous grief. As this is not ideal, in fact it is incredibly difficult, will you advocate that their kids be removed?
What has God got to do with it?
A hotel in Dublin is giving any person who pulls down a “NO” Poster and brings it to the reception a 50% discount on hotel accommodation!
Is there any Government or Law in Ireland to protect NO posters?
Clearly Fine Gael, Labour and Fianna Fail are acting as a Dictatorship .
Where is Democracy in Ireland today?
Why does our Taoiseach refuse to debate the issues?
Is he a coward?
Was this proposal part of Fine Gaels pre-election Manifesto?
Who wrote Enda speech criticising the Vatican? Was it a relation of Frank Flannery?
Why did this Government close the Vatican Embassy?
For a Man who is against same sex marriage he referenced MANDATES far too much.
Does Russell Crowe know his image is being used in that mural lol.
I’ve written an open letter in response to this.
https://www.facebook.com/joanne.nidhufaigh/posts/10207262029813515
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